Episode 011 with Jo Halliday, CEO & Founder of Talking Medicines, innovative AI tech in the healthcare

Speaker A: Foreign. Hello and welcome back to the Brahtech podcast. My name is Amy Kelly and today I am joined by Jo Haladay, the CEO and founder of Talking Medicines. How are you, Joe?

Speaker B: Oh, good, thank you very much.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. Ah, so we'd love to just kick start if you could introduce yourself, our audience, tell us a little bit more about yourself and your backstory.

Speaker B: Cool, Absolutely. So I'm Jo Haladay, CEO and founder at Talking Medicines. Talking Medicines is a data tech company based here in Glasgow where we're filming today. Um, and also we have an office over in Jersey City. Um, and we do a lot of work in the US as we will talk to later. Um, and what we actually do is we curate unstructured health related data into actionable intelligence. So quite a lot in there. Um, but we're using AI, um, and data science to be able to curate, to find the signals, the important pieces of information that are in messy unstructured data at the moment, mainly from doctors and patients and creating intelligence that is ultimately sold to pharmaceutical marketeers.

Speaker A: And is there something you could tell us about why you started it and how that, how Talking Medicines became a thing?

Speaker B: Cool. Absolutely. Um, so it's important to say, you know, I'm one of three founders. So Elizabeth Fairley and Scott Kray and myself created the company a number of years ago. Um, and the interesting part is we've been on, you know, a good length of time with Talking Medicines, but we've always stayed pretty true to our vision, which has always been about patient outcomes. So patients are pretty underserved in the world if you think that 50% of medicines, literally half of medicines prescribed are ah, not taken, um, so they're forgotten, flushed down the toilet, um, not understood, they just don't get taken. And that stat stays the same across the world. So there is a big problem, it's called adherence on medicines and it costs the pharmaceutical companies a lot of money and it costs society a, ah, welfare cost of people not getting better. So the 250 billion that pharma loses out from people not sticking to the medicines prescribed and the social and economic cost of people not being as well as they should. So from the beginning of our journey, myself, Scott and Elizabeth have always believed that, you know, there's lots of ways to come at the problem, um, but patients deserve a better outcome. So we have created a data tech company which ultimately supports the right patient being on the right medicine at the right time for the right length of time, which is what the pharma manufacturers want. Um, and we'll talk about our route to market, but we work very closely with the ad agencies and ultimately it's about making sure the right medicine is with the right person.

Speaker A: I've been following talking medicines for a while, so we met a few years ago, um, when we were both speaking at a Marketing Society event. And I've been following it since then. Joan, I think it's super inspirational what you're doing. Um, and I actually think it's great when you hear about a co founder relationship that you've got two co founders and you're all building this together and um, might come back to you and ask you some more questions on that, actually. So there's definitely a lot that's been happening with talking medicines in terms of global expansion. So can we talk about that for a little bit and tell us a little bit about where you are, what's happening, how has that expansion been going?

Speaker B: Yes, so we've very much been driven by where our market is, where do people need our data and ultimately the pharmaceutical market. Drug marketing is run mainly out of the U.S. um, so you know, we seize the opportunity. We happen to be in Scotland. We are very proud to be in Scotland. We think it's a data science place of excellence. The universities create really good grads. Those grads look for jobs. You know, we very much are committed to keeping the data science, our, uh, um, engineering functions, all in Scotland. So we've grown out of Scotland, but that doesn't mean we sell in Scotland because if we try to sell to drug manufacturers in Scotland, you know, there's one, um, so we would really, really struggle. Um, so we have very much looked at where the market is, which is predominantly currently out of the U.S. um, and first of all, we've targeted the east coast. So, um, pharma tend to be around the Jersey area and the agencies that serve them are in the New York area. So we put our office into Jersey City A couple of years ago we created a subsidiary, um, and we spent a lot of time in market more recently, which I'm sure we'll come on to. We've been spending time in California. California is, I think it's the fifth largest market independent of the fact of where it is. Um, health and wellness and biotech are huge. So we've been exploring to see, you know, should we also have a presence on the west coast as well as the East. Um, but we, you know, we are very happily servicing our US market from Scotland and we find that balance is actually very straightforward. Um, and, you know, we enjoy, um, having both offices.

Speaker A: Do you know, it's so funny, I never actually realized that you were in Jersey City. I remember I lived there when I was, like, 22 and I was doing an internship in New York. And, uh, you know, you just never. I never casually hear, but I think that's brilliant. I do. I miss my Hoboken days.

Speaker B: No, no, It's a cool place to be based out of. And it actually makes sense for us because we can go into Jersey or we can go into Manhattan. And it's so close, so it's a good place. Buzzing place.

Speaker A: So let's talk about that trip to San Francisco recently. You were at Silicon Valley. So, um, you got taken there in a cohort. So could you just tell us a little bit about what that was, who it was run by, why you were there, and just what that entailed, really?

Speaker B: Yeah. So we took an opportunity, um, from sdi, Scottish Development International, part of Scottish Enterprise, to use their market booster. Um, we're not a startup. We're very much a successful scaling business. But we always think we can learn and we can expand further in the States. So we have really used this, um, um, residency, we're calling it. It's kind of eight weeks in market to really hone in on commercial targets and networks that will really help us, give us kind of a second bump to our US Plans. Um, so we're halfway. We've been there for four weeks. I spent the last three weeks out there. Elizabeth Fairly is there at the moment. Scott also spent time in market. Um, and we're really looking at where are the adjacencies? Where else can we go that supports and enhances our market? 1, which is pharmaceutical marketing. And, you know, I've mentioned a few times the agencies. Our chosen route to market is to sell our data intelligence to the strategists in the ad agencies, because the money that is spent on marketing is generally outsourced to agencies of note. So we generally, um, deal with the agencies and work with them to really enhance the way that they work so they find more efficient and effective data insights from us for their farmer briefs. So, um, yeah, we've really, really enjoyed being part of the cohort in California. We've got another four weeks. I'm going back out next week. Um, and, you know, we think it will give a lift to our business in the way that we wanted it to. And being part of a cohort has really helped because there's others there that are networking and building their businesses again, all established businesses that are using it to leapfrog into. To other parts.

Speaker A: Yeah. So give a shout out to Louis and Ross that we know from Cloudsoft over there. And, um, yeah, they're good friends of ours. So, yeah, I think it's great that you've been given the opportunity to go out and I think that it's great to hear that even at this stage of the business, you are still saying yes to those opportunities. You're seeing the value in that. And it just shows that there's always that, ah, no matter what, there's always that room to grow and learn and adapt and take up those opportunities.

Speaker B: And I think the market is different. The market in California is different to market in New York. So understanding those nuances network with people on the ground. Um, they've both got different ways of working, but they're both equally, um, as important. So it's been good for us to be able to be on the ground.

Speaker A: Did you manage to have any fun in San Francisco?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Always.

Speaker A: Good. Um, so let's talk about your experience as a founder for a little bit, Jo. We'd just like to know more about that. I think it's understanding the humans behind the businesses and really what that's like. Because being a founder is not a simple thing, it's not an easy thing, and it's a lot of, um, you know, it's a job not many people will take on. And I think your husband's also an entrepreneur as well. So, yeah, it would just be good to find out more about that experience for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's not necessarily textbook. You don't sit down one day and think, I'm going to be an entrepreneur or I didn't. I think some people probably do, but I certainly didn't. So I came through my corporate life. Um, I came through companies like Coca Cola brand management, I came through Fortune brands, um, and I came through a number of scaling companies. I did a management buyout, um, where we bought and sold brands. So I suppose that management buyout was my way into entrepreneurship. Um, and then when my children were very young, I felt that I wanted to do less hours. So I was a consultant and I kind of, yes, saw opportunity when I was consulting for businesses. And effectively that's where I began to go on my entrepreneurial journey. So I've had a couple of times in companies where, um, there's been investment, I've been able to grow and ultimately exit those. And then talking medicines was really, really about Me moving on, having time to think about what I wanted to do. I'd been working in, um, animal health and, um, Scott, co founder, ah, was also in the same company. And we saw an opportunity. We met a pharma client. We saw the opportunity to communicate to pet owners, first of all, about how to take medicines, how to give medicines. Um, and we used tech from the beginning, so in this case we used augmented reality to bring packaging to life. Um, and it's the first time it had been done in medicines and it caught the attention of Sanofi, um, and that led us into the human health side very quickly. So we kind of created the business knowing that communication needed to be better, that we could use tech to wrap around it. And that was the first iteration of talking medicines, um, back then. So I wouldn't say that I one day sat down and said, I'm going to become an entrepreneur. It kind of happened and events happened. We were commercial on day because our client had said, I'll fund a piece of work if you give me a deliverable. Um, and that really was the beginning of the company. And it's had lots of advantages starting like that in other ways. We didn't go through the stages that other companies go through, um, when they're beginning in terms of that networking and that kind of surrounding yourself with other entrepreneurs. Um, but it's worked for us, um, and we've kind of grown out of it.

Speaker A: What, for you, has been the hardest part of being a founder and running a business?

Speaker B: Yes, I think, I mean, it's, it's very close to the bone, that there's definitely ups and there's downs and it's, you know, business is rational, but it's emotional as well. When it's part of your life and, you know, you, you have to be able to carry, carry the responsibility for employing people, paying people. Um, you're constantly running the business. And I think in the States there's a difference in attitude to founders. The founders are supported because it's going to work. I think it's pretty difficult in the uk. It's the business that's assessed. Um, and it can be quite difficult for founders to lift their heads and believe you know, where they can go, because without founder drive, it just isn't going to happen. So, um, I think it is a tricky journey. I think it's one that isn't particularly understood and I think it's one that only certain kinds of people can do. Um, but if you really believe, then, you know, you're going to have to pivot many times but you will get, you will get somewhere, um, and hopefully to the place you want to be.

Speaker A: Has there been any sort of self imposed boundaries or anything you've had to do for to just manage it as a person, you know, like just the impact we know can be on your mental health or your family relationships. Is there anything that has worked for you that you're like, right, I know that this is what I do to maintain myself or just your happiness levels?

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean from a work perspective and we're all different but for me I'm always on so I don't mind working nights, weekends, holidays, I'm always on but I manage my time. So you know, for others they'll turn their emails off and have big breaks. With us there's nothing. But because everything moves at such pace, I've always found that ah, as a uh, founder, a CEO, you need to be on. So I am always available which would look like you're always working but there's flexibility around that because you manage, you know, whether it's sport or you know, I manage my time, um, so that I don't feel it, it runs me. I definitely feel that I run my work life.

Speaker A: And you mentioned earlier that you're proud to be building this from Scotland, so let's just talk about that for a little minute. So in terms of the support you've got here or just some of the different ecosystem support channels or people that you've went to, anything at all that stood out for you there in this journey?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think Scotland is a great place to build companies. The downside is that most investors and for us customers are not in Scotland. So you know, pretty early on we figured that one out. And it's not that you're abandoning Scotland. I think we love our workforce to always be in Scotland, but being able to look a lot, lot wider is ah, really important. And getting, you know, I wish we'd known a lot of the things we know now very early on but you don't know what you don't know. Um, Scottish Enterprise have definitely been a big help. SDI have been a big help, um, social investment. Scotland have been a big help, particularly around Resg. Um, so we've had great support. The founder network in Scotland is very, very strong. But um, it is so important to get out of those networks and be able to learn for yourselves from those who have succeeded. And because fewer have succeeded in Scotland, it's quite hard to hear the raw lessons pretty early on. So I think just keeping your eyes open, um, is important, but there is a lot of support here, which is a good thing.

Speaker A: You just said, you know, you don't know what you don't know. So can we actually just, just talk about that for a second? Because there are so many early stage founders that you're sort of adapting to anything that needs your attention and you're trying to build the product, you're trying to launch the product, you're trying to do all these things and be a business owner and manage finances and cash flow, all the fun things that come with running a business. But if there's anything that you wish you'd known that you could maybe tell, you know our audience that's listening today, what would you share with early stage founders?

Speaker B: I think the biggest difficulty is, and the elephant in the room at all times is funding. Um, that, that most. We ignored funding because we had a brief to start with and for a number of years we didn't fund our business as in, we grew it. But it was when we wanted to go for exponential growth, we went out to investors and such like for the first time. And again, you don't know what you don't know. Be careful when you're fundraising because you have to be product ready, you have to be product market fit ready. So if you haven't got that fit and you're trying to raise money, you're not going to get it. And you can waste months, even years from investors saying, stay, stay in touch. You think you're going to get a term sheet. If you haven't got a term sheet, you're probably not, um, you would actually be better selling your product and getting your metrics to work. Because if your metrics work and you truly understand your product and the dynamics around it, your funding will follow. So, you know, again, for us, for anybody, it's you sort your metrics out, make sure you have got a dynamic business. Even in the early days, it's about you, it's about looser product fit as it goes on. It's rinse and repeat and then it's expansion. So if you, if you could understand that earlier on, you wouldn't waste just time speaking to a high, uh, end VC who is not even investing at C stage. You know, they'll want to stay in touch because they won't want to, to say no to something that could be big, but they're not going to invest in you. Um, and the same on where you get your investment from. You know, is it, is it the states where you want to grow, in which case you just need to get out there and you know, do that from the beginning. Or is it Scotland, which is great because there's lots of early investors but there's very few follow on investors. So if you got your base Scotland, you can get stuck, um, at quite an early stage in terms of being able to raise the bigger amounts. So funding is the difficult one and one that everybody will be different in terms of what they want. But you need to have a strategy.

Speaker A: Yeah, they say that everything comes with a price, isn't it? So that founder time is so precious and if you are spending all of that time and not actually out there in market growing, getting customers, it's a

Speaker B: full time job and I think it needs its own marketing campaign, it needs its own attention. So if you're trying to do it at the same time as everything, doing it half heartedly is probably the worst thing you can do. Um, or you're putting all your energies into it, but it's too early, you haven't got the metrics, you're not going to get the funding. Someone would be better telling you it's not going to happen. What other options have you got? Which sales would be at the top of the list?

Speaker A: So Jo, it sounds like obviously you're growing internationally. There's loads going on, really exciting things. Um, but for you as a founder, what is it that's driving you to go ahead full steam, do this every day?

Speaker B: Yep. No, good question. Um, and I think every founder has got motivation and ours is definitely to get to that inflection point. So it's value, it's value where you know, it could be an exit. So it could be that ultimately the business is sold or the inflection could be, you know, the growth stages, getting to a 50 million pound company or 100 million pound company. They, we've got a number of scenarios that we drive towards. Um, and ultimately we will know when we're successful because we will know that value has been realized. And that's the reason that people invest in companies, they want shareholder value. But we're the same, we will know when we've succeeded and we're quite clear about what success is for us when we've realized that value. Um, and that comes through customers, it comes through revenue, it comes through employees feeling, you know, motivated and happy. Um, so there's a number of ways that that comes together and depending on the time of your journey, you know, that could look like different things. But I think it is that achievement ultimately, um, that drives the three of us in terms of getting to success.

Speaker A: I actually would love to ask you as well about the med tech world, because it's an area that I really don't know anything about when it comes to medical. You know, except for from popping at the doctors every so often, I really don't know, um, anything about that world. Is there anything, you know, that you could share with us of just like, what's really hard about trying to expand in that world? Or is there anything that's just like, wow, these are more rules that we have to go by? What is it like?

Speaker B: Yeah, no. The health industry in general and the pharma industry is highly regulated, um, for all the right reasons. Takes a long time to make decisions because, you know, generally it's been created to approve medicines. Um, so even as a technology company that wraps around this whole medical area, there are a lot of ethics, there's a lot of compliance, and there's a lot of hurdles for the farmer and the agencies and suppliers to go through. So it can be frustrating in terms of the time it takes to get decisions. Um, and we work very closely with clients who have used us before, who can help us expand or farmer who know us. So it just takes time, which can be very, very frustrating. In other industries you might have different challenges, um, but for us, we've kind of built our business knowing that. So we've built in compliance, um, we've built in our, ah, you know, our way of describing and being able to answer to procurement, um, who for, you know, the right reasons, need to know a lot of information about us, um, and technology generally is being quite slowly adopted, um, in the medical world. So, you know, AI is now rushing in, in 2025 and people would think maybe it's been invented this year. It's been around for a long time. And you know, we've been working on our data modeling, our data science, which is what makes us different. For the past six years we have in house sanitation, we develop, you know, proprietary training data. Um, therefore we have a big moat around us in terms of what we've done. 2025 comes along and lots of people say they're AI companies and it's kind of a very different kind of experience that they've had. So the challenges of the sector actually work for us now because that robustness, transparency, being able to work ethically in this sector is so, so important and that takes time, takes time to build. Um, you have to have a lot of expertise within the company around data science, um, to be able to do so. Yeah, there definitely are chall. Um, and now, you know, we definitely see a different pace on adoption. But again, people will think that generative AI is all of AI and you know, we use natural language processing and machine learning, so there's still education around it. Um, and I think adoption of technology, Whilst everybody uses ChatGPT, it doesn't mean that everybody understands what the applications are. And ultimately we wrap tech around a use case. If you don't know your use case, um, it's very, very difficult to use tech because you'll be using it for its own sake. So we come back to what is it we do and what do we solve?

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Since this AI boom, we're just seeing tons of people entering the market creating products and it feels that there are a lot of messy things out there. So I think that's great that you've been doing this for that amount m of time and you've got that proof of concept and you're doing it in the right way because, um, AI must be used responsibly. Lovely. So, Jo, could you tell us a little bit about what the day in a life in your life is like? What's the day in the life of Jo Halliday?

Speaker B: Yeah. So what's my day like? So, to be absolutely honest, I wouldn't say it's totally routine because we travel so much. So, you know, I've just been in California for three weeks, so, you know, that's thrown up any kind of routine that, that I would have had and I've come back and, and yours still working across different timescales. So I would say every day is different. Um, generally I tend to come into the office one or two times a week. Um, and when I'm at home, you know, I pretty much work quite solidly, um, across the day. Um, we deal with New York timescale quite a lot and at the minute, California, which extends your day even further into that point. On balance, you know, I would rather now maybe go to the gym in the morning rather than going at 7 o' clock at night because I know that I'll be needed at night, um, because a number of the team are in California. So I would probably describe my daily routine as pretty flexible in terms of working around the priorities and what's happening. So, um, I don't. Yeah, I definitely don't have very rigid hours where I do certain things. Um, my kids are all at university or beyond now, so I find my routine has completely changed to years ago, which is Lovely. Because there's more time to, to really think about work and leisure and time at home. So, yeah, so it's probably in a state of transition in its own way. Um, but that's good in terms of traveling more and being able to experience more of that side of culture.

Speaker A: So there's no 4am starts, 5am meditation. M. I feel like we see a lot of those posts and I'm always inquisitive, like how much of that is actually true or there's like the status quo. To be a founder and entrepreneur, you have to be up at 4 and you have to be at the gym by 5 and those sort of things. But it's this realistic.

Speaker B: I don't. I've got certain rules that, uh, the way I work, you know, I don't have unread emails. I am very, you know, very much into the right things from the right place by the time I finish the day. So I don't. I only wake up to new emails. Um, I learned many years ago, um, you know, the kind of the one stop. So if you do something with it and if you can't, you put it just into a keep folder that you can come back to. But it doesn't sit in my inbox. So I've got quite a few ways that I work, um, which are quite important to me. Um, but I don't have certain hours during the day and, you know, we play with things at work like, you know, meetings or trying to put more of them in the meet in the morning or more of them in the afternoon. So to give more space, um, and obviously, you know, I'd work around those because we're trying to do things that make life generally easier for us as a company. Um, but yeah, I don't have any strict regime on hour by hour because every day is slightly different. Um, and with travel it really does mean you have to be flexible.

Speaker A: So switching tracks a little bit now, um, we have prioritised this series of the BroadTech podcast to showcase all of the incredible women that we have here in Scotland that are building successful companies like yourself. So we were really passionate about doing that for a few reasons, but also to inspire more women into entrepreneurship, especially in the tech sector. So if there are any, um, fantastic women out there sitting on a great idea that have just not pulled the handbrake off, as they say, um, do you have any advice that you'd like to share with them?

Speaker B: I think it is just the network, just to network, to speak to people. People are really kind on LinkedIn. If you ask somebody for 10 minutes, half an hour just to talk to them about their journey or to ask them for advice, um, we found huge support in the stack states, both New York and now in, in California, in Silicon Valley. If you ask somebody for time, they will generally give it and they want to help you. So if you're sitting and you're thinking and you know, you, you don't know what, what you really want to get out, then ask a number of people who are similar or who have exited or you know, people that you can listen to, um, that will give you the right kind of advice and I think that probably is, is, is the best way.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's the, the net network is the net worth. They, I think they say, don't they? So yeah, 100% get out there meeting people, um, I definitely found that transformational for myself. As soon as I started to go out and just ask for support, ask for advice, I was really surprised by the people that were like, yeah, of course, you know, let's give you this like, say I'll meet you for a coffee and it's, it's, it's have to

Speaker B: be the structured, it doesn't have to be, you know, a Scottish Enterprise event. It, you know, just go and talk to people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, is the way you'll get your confidence and, and get your started and

Speaker A: maybe not starting the cold LinkedIn message asking for the favor, going over the curious mindset about building a relationship because we all know that that's ah, the other end of the scale, which is a bit exhausting. But um, so let's uh, you know, from the side of um, running a business as a woman, as a mother, as a wife and everything that you've done in your career, is there anything on that side that you've necessarily noted or is it just, you know, it's, it's nothing worth, um, you know we, we do say around the, the VC funding and that being a smaller percentage and there's a lot of things that are still just not fair. Um, but what has it been like from your perspective, Joe?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, myself and Elizabeth are clearly both female founders, so we've got a strong female force within our founding team. Um, and it's tough, it's tough to, to raise any investment. We've raised, you know, £5 million, um, you know, from Scotland. That's not bad. We'd like to raise, you know, more as we go on our scaling. Um, so yes, everybody finds their own path and there is no wrong or right way, I don't think being females has been a disadvantage to us, but the stats will tell us it absolutely is. Um, so you know, we've got to punch above the stats to be able to get through, to potentially help others get through. Um, there is no two ways about it. If you look at the stats, it's very, very poor on VC investments, females as VCs. Um, but we have to compete in a world where, you know, we're all represented and it's the business story ultimately that you need to absolutely fight out and support, you know, other women around us, um, and build our own networks to try and combat that. Because it isn't good enough that there's so few females who get investment.

Speaker A: Yeah, not to be turned off by the facts, to actually be inspired to change the facts and uh, not to dwell on those things and go out and just do it anyway. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Thank you so much Joe. So just a couple more questions for you. Um, you know we were talking about different um, startups and scale ups across the world and one of our missions here with the Broadtech podcast is definitely to connect us globally to get more people across the world understanding about a lot of the innovation that happens here in this country. So um, is there any other startup or scale up company elsewhere in the world that you would like to give a shout out to?

Speaker B: Yeah, and I think we've come across so many in our journey, so many people we could shout out to. We definitely shout out Phil Crowley, um, Crowley Law in New York. Um, Phil has been through a whole corporate career and he is now setting up effectively, um, as a boutique attorney. Um, he's been an inspiration to us and has given us huge amounts of support whilst building his own, his um, own business, having his own podcast. And you know, it's lovely to see others give back to the, the startup um, system. So absolutely I would shout out to, to him.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you so much Joe. And um, and lastly, if you had one word to describe your founder journey, what would that one word be?

Speaker B: Very careful. One word. I think I would say powerful. Um, just in every sense. Um, yeah, it's not for the meek and wild and it's not um, it's not a gentle experience but the ups are very good and um, ultimately you know, you do it because you want to get to an end and that is a very, very powerful end.

Speaker A: Amazing. Thank you so much for your time Joe. It was such a pleasure to have you on the Brothtech podcast, especially after following talking medicines all this time and meeting all those years ago. And, um, yeah, you should be massively proud of everything you've achieved. And I can't wait to see what else comes out of talking medicines. So thank you so much for your time. We really, really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Brilliant.

Speaker A: Thank you. And thank you, everyone, uh, that has listened and watched. We really appreciate your engagement. Please share this episode with your. And we'll look forward to sharing more episodes with you again soon. Thank you, everyone.