Why $550K in Inventory Made $1000 (Clothing Brand Mistakes)

Speaker A: The biggest mistake that I see on YouTube is when I'm researching and trying to find answers for manufacturing, there's literally none of them.

Speaker B: What are you trying to do?

Speaker A: I'm going to start an apparel line that's specifically focused on fitness. Where would one start with that?

Speaker B: You can either do something where you're finding a pre made garment that's already made and then you're customizing with your logo, your branding, all that type of stuff, or you're going to go overseas and work with a factory to fully develop your own product for from scratch. And there's pros and cons to that.

Speaker C: My favorite Billabong T shirt, it was a very specific like 14% and then this percent. I was like, yeah, that's, that's what I need to find. So I got a bunch of blanks that I thought like, oh, these has kind of like the same blend. None of them came even close to that Billabong shirt that I had.

Speaker B: So much about how like you weave in and out of like the fabrics and all that.

Speaker C: But this is the exact same, exact

Speaker B: same, you know, percentage of polyester and spandex. When you're working with a factory, you need to know like what you're kind of even looking for. Right.

Speaker A: How do you not lose the personalization or is that like that's just something you have to give up?

Speaker B: Can you first off find something that is pre made that you can start with? Is maybe not where you want to go long term, but can you test a concept first?

Speaker A: So the biggest mistake that I see on YouTube on my end is when I'm researching and trying to find answers for manufacturing. There's literally none of them because we, we answer questions from marketing. But what are the biggest mistakes that people make when they're first starting a clothing brand, trying to figure out manufacturing or trying to start this thing, uh, from that side?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, okay, that's a big question. You start out really hard off. I'm start. There's so many directions that we can kind of go with that because when you talk about manufacturing, there are so many different sides to manufacturing. Right. What are you trying to do? Are you trying to do print on demand? Are you trying to do screen printing or doing embroidery? Are you trying to go overseas and do something with cut and sew? So is there a certain direction you want me kind of focus on?

Speaker A: Yeah, let's, let's start with, uh, I'll make this fictitious company. We can, we can go from there, but I'll just start. There's a an apparel line. We'll just say I'm going to start an apparel line that's specifically focused on fitness. So they're looking to create like leggings or something else. And. Yeah, where would one start with that? They wanted to start their own leggings line. They want to mimic maybe uh, a Lululemon or something.

Speaker B: Perfect. That's actually great. I actually just did a consultation with somebody recently that was actually doing that exact same thing and they were wanting to copy something that was Lululemon was wanting to do. And there was two directions I kind of was trying to educate them on is you can either do something where you're finding a pre made garment that's already made and then you're customizing with your logo, your branding, all that type of stuff, or you're gonna go overseas and work with the factory to fully develop your own product from scratch. And there's pros and cons to that. First off, you're gonna be able to get something launched a lot faster and testing. Cause starting out, you have no proof of concept. You have no idea what you're doing. You don't know if you're gonna have people even buy it. So if you're spending all this time, six months a year working with a factory to make your own custom product to then take it to market and it completely bomb. You just wasted a lot of time. And so can you first off, find something that is pre made that you can start with? It's maybe not where you want to go long term, but can you test the concept first? And so for this one customer, I was talking to them, I was like, all right, you, you want to do something like Lululemon? Well, sadly, Lululemon is very unique. You're not going to find it. Even if you go over to China and have them try to make something for you, it's not going to be the same quality as Lululemon. They're spending millions and millions of dollars perfecting their own fabric, right? Like they're not just going down the street to one of these big fabric places and buying a big roll of fabric. They're custom making their own fabric to, to their things, right? So if you're saying, oh, I want to do something just like Lululemon, you're not going to be able to do it. Not starting out all right, that's reality check number one. But can you find something that's close that you can test the concept with first? And so there's a lot of brands out there that make great apparel that you can buy at wholesale that you can then decorate either with screen printing or some type of other customization. Um, for athletic brand doing stuff like silicone transfers onto them or those kind of those raised things that you see Lululem doing a lot. Um, like they'll just put their logo on something. That's a great easy way to do it. But can you find something that you can start testing a concept first before you start spending a lot of money to make sure you have something there, um, and get it to market asap. And there's a lot of great brands out there. Just got to know where to start. And so when you're working with somebody like me who been in the industry for 20 years, we know a lot of the, the places to go to. Right. Um, especially on the screen printing side, there are so many great blank garments out there. Um, there's items and I know I'm kind of going a little sidetracked here. Sorry. But there's certain items, I'm like, yes, you should go make those overseas. In China, there's some items. Don't even try to do that. Right. There's great options here in the States. You're, you're not going to do something unique and you're not going to do something that is going to actually save you money. T shirts and most apparel items are that way unless you're doing something truly unique. Right. Um, so there's a million different T shirts out there, right? From your standard ones to the heavyweights to different fits and drop shoulders and all that. You know, you can typically find the blank that matches what you are looking for. You just got to do the research and work with somebody to help you find that. Um, but then there's certain items, like, I feel like hats, very easy, you should do those overseas. They're not, you're not developing, you're not reinventing the wheel most of the time. Right. But when you're wanting to do something like a, hey, I'm trying to make a special blend shirt like Lululemon, it's going to get very complicated very quickly. And if you don't know what you're doing and most people don't, you're going to end up going and wasting a whole lot of money. And more importantly, the more R and D you kind of get into, the higher the MOQs are going to be, the higher your costs are going to be.

Speaker A: What moq, what's it?

Speaker B: Sorry? MOQ is minimum order quantity at the end of the day. And so talking to someone, again, very similar, where they were wanting to do a. Some type of sports shirt. It, uh, was like a. Some type of polo, but they wanted a very unique blend of fabric. And I was like, let me go talk to the factory. Let me see what we can find. And I came back with a few options, like, no, I want to do it this way. I also want to be certified organic. I want it on this. And I'm like, all right, I have a place that can do it for you. But your moq just dropped or skyrocketed to 500 pieces minimum per colorway. You're a brand new brand starting out. Are you ready to drop that? And it's like, but I can get you something close, and we can do a hundred. Where do you. Where do you go from there? Right? And, um, I'm sorry, I know I went all over the place with that. Again, it's a really big kind of question at the end of the day, and most people don't know enough information to go into it. And more importantly, this is another thing. I was educating somebody with this last week. Just because you buy a lululemon shirt and it says, oh, the fabric is 60% polyester and 35% nylon and 5% spandex, that you go find a fabric with the exact same specs, that it's going to be the same fabric or even feel the same.

Speaker C: Yeah. So I, uh. A few years back, I did that. I. I had a, uh, my favorite billabong T shirt. Whatever. Um, they probably use hundreds of vendors and whatever, but I had this. Yeah, the shirt, and it was a very specific, like, 14 and then this percent. And I was like, yeah, that's. That's what I need to find. So I went to. I think it might have been, like, one of the bigger, uh, know, blank sellers out there. And I got a bunch of blanks that I thought, like, oh, these has kind of like the same blend. And I got maybe five or six of them. None of them came even close to that billabong shirt that I had, um, bought years ago that I thought like, oh, this just feels amazing. It must be that bland, but not at all.

Speaker B: No, it is. And it's so m. It's so much about how, like, you weave in and out of, like, the fabrics and all that. And actually, um, the garments that we had earlier. Sorry, I know we're kind of throw them over here. I know this is going to be a good thing. Can you grab me? Perfect. This is going to be a really good example. Sorry. This is going to be a really good example. What if I told you both of these are the exact same blend of polyester spandex?

Speaker A: I would tell you you're a liar.

Speaker B: And stretch them. Like the biggest thing is stretch it. Yeah, right, Like.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: That stretches beautifully. Yep. And then try to stretch that one.

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah, very. I mean this feels like it's almost like uh, like papyrus over here. You can't like.

Speaker B: Exactly. Right.

Speaker C: Buttery, soft, stretchy. Oh, yeah. So this is the exact same, exact

Speaker B: same, you know, percentage of polyester and spandex.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker B: And the difference is, is how they're weaved together. And when you're working with a factory, you need to know like what you're kind of even looking for. Right. So when we're doing the polo and say, hey, we want something with a four way stretch, it's going to stretch where with the button up, we want something that's not going to stretch. You need to know how to communicate with the factory with what you're doing.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So, um, yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: I mean, totally get the. That's a, kind of a tough question, I guess. Uh, uh, another follow up to that part of it is where is it good for them to find something? Like let's say they do decide that they want to, um, go with something that's already pre made or whatever else. I'm thinking more so around what is the budget difference? Because the first thing you said there is like, all right, those moqs are the minimum order side of things and then one of them being higher and lower. But how much more on average is going creating your own material and doing it your own way versus like buying something that's already done? Like is it astronomically different or on average or is it like two times more? Like I'm just trying to figure out a ballpark to help that way, I guess.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, a good example, I recently did a project for myself where basic T shirt, 100% cotton. Nothing fancy at all about it, except for we were doing a digital all over print. My cost per unit and I was only doing 100 of them, my cost per unit was about $15 a unit. Okay. Over in China. Now I cannot do that in the States because of how I wanted it to be a all over print. But it wasn't anything crazy about it.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like there's nothing special about the blank at the end of the day. But it was $15 a unit. Well, I can go buy a blank T shirt before I customize it. That's really good quality. For $5 for, like, really great stuff where a blank T shirt starts at $2 blank. And then you can customize it. Mm. So because these big companies will use Gildan, Gildan's the biggest name T shirt brand. Not. Not a great quality. They do some good stuff, but they're more known for the budget, all that type of stuff. Right. You can get a T shirt for under three, like their standard and probably most popular T shirts that are the more what they call the soft spun. Um, that's like 250 to buy it blank at wholesale. Right. But they're making those at hundreds of thousands of pieces. And then more importantly, they're putting it on a boat and slowly shipping it to the United States. One of the things that most people spend money on is actually the import tax and shipping costs, because most people don't want to put it on a boat, wait a very long time, and then, you know, they want to get it to market. Right. So something that costs Maybe we'll say $8 to produce over in China, maybe the actual cost was $4 to do, and the shipping and tariffs were another $4. Well, maybe we're able to get that down to like 550 if you're willing to wait additional two, three months to get to it. Uh, and so then you're playing that game of like, all right, how important is the next $150? 2 bucks for my margins. But when you're those big companies that producing hundreds of thousands of pieces at a time, they're trying to get it as cheap as possible. That's why they put it on the boat.

Speaker A: M. So many. Okay, so we have mistakes from, I would say, starting out, because again, there's not really. When I was like, doing research on this, there's more than enough marketing videos on what to do there. There's not really manufacturing. It's like, here's how to find a manufacturer. And like, go to AliExpress or go Google something, whatever. So there's a lot of people who are like, hey, this is what I did, and I created a list myself or whatever. But they. That's where it stops. And who knows if they're good, who knows, who knows if they're responsive, what the quality is like, or anything. It's just. That's it. There's not really anything that goes in depth into the manufacturing side of things. And so one thing that I feel like comes up a lot when we're talking with people are like, uh, what are tech packs? And like, how do you communicate? You Mentioned it earlier. How do you communicate to the manufacturer, Hey, I want these, I want it to come out and look like I don't know where it went. But like, even with the design of the hat, like, I want it to look like this. I want to have design in the inside of it. Like, how do you communicate that? Put it back up here. Nice. Uh, how do you communicate that? Because, you know, unless you got on the phone with somebody and said describing it and maybe Christian can relate because people are like building websites with them where they're like, yeah, I want this like really sleek and clean feel and it's like, cool. Yeah, but how do we actually design it? But I hear the word tech packs, but what does that even mean? Is that how they communicate or. Yeah, what is that?

Speaker B: So I'm going to share some stuff with you that will probably blow your guys mind. And I saw a meme the other day that to me was the funniest thing in the world because it was so true. Like, you see those memes, like, they're actually not funny at all, but they're so true that nobody thinks about, like, oh, no, that's hilarious, right? And it was something on the lines of the most broken thing about the apparel industry is there is no standard of tech packs. Like, their tech packs are a hot mess. There's a million different ways to do them. There's no one way that says, this is how you should do a tech pack. Here's what information you should have. Tech packs are the most important thing in the world when you're making apparel.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Uh, because that is going to be the blueprint of how you make the product done. But because there is no standard to it, everybody does it a little bit different. You're not even having everything that you need. So again, these big, you know, companies, Lululemon, I've never seen what one of their tech packs look like. I'm sure it is very intense, right? Like, because they're going into so much detail with it. But even when we do a tech pack, most of the time, even if you have a pretty detailed one, you're missing information. And so you can take your tech pack, go to one factory in China, go to a different factory in China, go put somebody over in Vietnam, do somebody in Turkey, same tech pack, you're going to get something completely different. Because no matter how detailed your tech pack is, it's probably not detailed enough. And factories, they don't even come to you and say, hey, what are you going to do? What do you want to do about this. How do you want this done? Um, you know, all this, they just, they fill in the blanks for you. So it's like you make a recipe when you're cooking and they say, here's 80% of the ingredients. Make me a cake.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's probably going to need something else. We'll throw a little bit in here. Yeah.

Speaker B: And the factory knows it's only 80% of the information that you need. And they fill in the blanks. Now they're actually okay with that, in my opinion. Nobody's actually come out and said, oh, they're trying to do this on purpose. But they know that they now hold 20% of the power. So if you need to get something remade and you're gonna go to a different factory, it's gonna come out different. And it's things from what buttons are you using? Because a lot of times when you do a tech pack, all you're saying is, I want this shape button and like maybe this color. I want maybe transparent, I want a solid color. Right. But there's so many different still styles of buttons where you make the buttons, like, where are they buying the buttons from the type of zipper that you're using? These are the little things that people don't even really think about, but it matters. Um, how are you sewing the garment together? Are you doing certain things a certain way? Right. Like, there's all these little details that most tech packs don't. The average tech pack that I see, and this is what most tech packs do in general is they say, this is what I want my product to look like. They use AI to generate like a, um, model mock up of it or they have. They found somebody who's doing something similar. And you know, here's a picture what my end result wants to look like. Here are the measurements that I want and some other basic details in the artwork. And go make me a shirt or go make me a pair of joggers or whatever it is.

Speaker A: Hm.

Speaker B: And then the factory is putting together everything else. And so an interesting fact is when you're starting out, China is always going to be your best place to produce your products because they are the most flexible, usually m. They're also the most cheapest. They're not always the best quality. That doesn't mean they have bad quality. That doesn't mean China can't have great quality. I have found that their mindset, when they're talking to people, especially new clothing brands, um, you know, when you go on to Alibaba, hey, I Want to find a manufacturer to work with. First off, the factories that are on Alibaba, not always, but typically they're the people that are needing business. They're desperate. That's why they're on there. The big dogs who don't want your business aren't on there. Right. Like, uh, common sense at the end of day.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Doesn't mean they're bad. They could be bad, but a lot of times when you get a sample done, the sample comes back pretty bad. Especially if you don't know what you're doing, because the factory thinks you want the product as cheap as possible. And one, you don't know how to communicate with them on, uh, what you want. But they think the price is the most important thing and they think they're competing with a bunch of these, uh, other cheap factories. So it's, how can I get it as cheap as possible?

Speaker C: Got it. When you said China is usually the most flexible, are you talking about, like, they just, they will say yes to anything that you.

Speaker B: Most of the time, yes. And a good example is this, um, like that hat, for example, is a good option. There are a lot of special elements on there, like the silicone patches and transfers, all of that type of stuff. And China is willing to do that stuff at a lot smaller MOQ. So we're like, hey, I want to do 100 of these hats. I want to have this special transfer here and this, this. They're like, great. No problem. Where if you go to Vietnam, for example, they're like, we'll do the 100 hats for you. The cost is typically a little bit more than what China is going to be, but they're like, if you want to have this feature or this feature, you want to do this. Either we got to bump the MOQ up a lot more, or we're going to charge you a lot more. Because we can't go just make 100 of these patches to put on it. We got to do 500. So we're going to make 500 of them and you're going to have 400 left over. Mhm. Where China is more willing to work with you, such in small, smaller quantities. Again, not always, but typically that is the case. And when we talk about factories and being flexible and all that type of stuff, and even with moqs, the best factories typically don't want to work with you. Because when you go up to them and you talk to them and you're so focused on, well, what's your moq, that's number one. That's the number one sign they're going to be like, we probably don't want to work with you. Because if that's what you're focused on is the moq. And then also if you don't have a good tech pack that tells them everything because at that point they have to almost hold your hand. Right. They know they're going to have to do the work where if you have your stuff together, not that you can't have good MOQs, but maybe that's not what you're focused on. Um, but like you go to a good solid factory with like your stuff together, they're more likely to work with you. And knowing that you're not going to be a giant pain.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: At the end they're not going to have to hold your hand. Um, that you know what you are doing at the end of the day. Right. You have reasonable expectations. A big thing that people don't know is again, they don't know what they don't know. And then they get something that they didn't realize they're going to get and then they're upset and they blame it on the factory. Mhm.

Speaker C: So in your eyes. Yeah. There's no true standard for tech packs, but maybe what is your. You need to at least check these boxes. Right. When you're dealing with something like this, do you have something like that?

Speaker B: Yeah. So you need to have a pretty good idea of what type of fabric you want to use.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, and then step one is then getting fabric squatches. Right. Because like I said, just because you did something one way or you know, material you want or what percentage doesn't mean you're gonna get the actual feel that you want. Right. You. So you gotta get the fabric swatches and then know what it is in the factory that, um, you work with the factory. So then the factory knows. Oh, this is the fabric that you want. Right. Because they're the ones purchasing the fabric for you on your behalf. Right. So they need to know what type of fabric it obviously is. And then from there it's making sure you have all the sizing. A lot of people will say, oh, here's what I want a size medium to look like. And then they, they just want the factory to scale it up and down. Oh, the factory knows what the. How it should go. Right. Um, sometimes works great, sometimes it doesn't. Right. Um, so you want to make sure you have all the sizing. And when I say sizing, um, this is actually a really good example. Um, even me Doing this for years. I still make mistakes and usually it's because I'm trying to help somebody and I go like, this is probably going to go wrong and I'm going to say yes to this anyways. And then, you know, hurts me. But I had a customer who needed something pretty quickly. There wasn't time to do samples. Um, they literally were like, here's the sizing chart of the company that we use. We want to model it off of. But it's like you go on, you know, whatever website you want, right. You go to Target and go, oh, this is what I want my T shirt to be. Sizing is. That's what they're providing. And so that's what we provided because that's all we had to work with. But we didn't go in enough detail of like, and these were pants. And so we knew what the waist was going to be and we knew what the lengths were going to be, but we didn't tell them how the, uh, fit was going to be, how skinny the legs fit or what.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so the factory just went with a, what they considered a regular fit. Well, the customer didn't say, oh, we wanted something that was more of a slim fit. They never communicated with us. We didn't, we made, we didn't. We messed up not asking that, knowing that. And then we produced the pants and the customer was unhappy. Right. Um, and so you have to, when it comes to sizing, you need to know every single little detail. The best thing you can do is go out there and, and find the garment that's really close to what you want. Buy them, buy all the size ranges and measure every single part of it that you think you're going to need to know. And there's tech pack designers out there. Like I hire people to build my tech packs.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Now I know mostly what I already want, but they have more knowledge than I do on, hey, how it should be sewn. M. You don't need that at the end of the day. But as long as you have the sizing, know what fabric, how you want the finishings done right. The decorations, all of that. Like, you can typically get pretty close. But the most important thing is you have to go through the sampling phase. Don't risk it, pay the money they have them. Go out there and produce one or maybe like one of a few different sizes. You don't need the whole size run at least get some of the key ones down, get it in, have somebody wear it, take pictures, make sure the fits right. Make sure the fabric's right. Make sure it actually is what you want.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: If you skip the sampling phase, it's going to bite you in the butt.

Speaker A: Um, so what you're saying to me sounds like, ah, time, Right. So it's, we talked about the, you know, the cost of the investment piece for it, but to me it's time. So if I wanted to start a new brand, brand, let's just say December 1st, whatever time of the year is from the time that I decide that I want that and the time that I get my tech, like even from that point. And I have an idea, how long does it typically take for the tech packs to the sample to ordering? What am I forecasting for? How long am I actually expecting to be doing these things before I actually receive product and can start selling it?

Speaker B: Mhm. So obviously one, you got to hire the tech pack designer. If you're not doing it yourself and it starts with again, go buy samples of what you're trying to copy. M. It's always, you're not going to reinvent the wheel. People think they're going to reinvent the wheel. Some unique, you know, fit this or whatever. Right. Like you're talking about peril. Yes. You can make little minor, like. But you're don't start from scratch. Find something that you want to copy and then put your own spin on it. Right. So if it is a hoodie, right. Go find the hoodie that you love that has the right fit by all the sizes, measure them, work with the tech back designer, build it out. That could take you anywhere from a week to do to a month based off of like, how much work you really kind of put into it. Right. So but you got the tech back ready to go and then it goes to. All right, now we need to go to the factory on it and then it goes through. All right, well what's the fabric going to look like?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: We got to go buy the fabric. Do they have something like how, how important is the fabric with it? Right. Do you, do you already kind of really know? Is the fabric really not like the star? Right. Like if you're trying to do something athletic wear where you're like, hey, um, I really need it to be just this way. Like when I was developing my own polos, honestly, I spent six months alone in the R D part.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And a lot of it was getting fabric samples in. But keep in mind, when you get fabric samples, a lot of times they're this big. And then you're like, I think this is good. Then you get a sample made in that fabric. You're like, this is not what I thought it was. Right? Because again, it's weird how this is different than when it's actually on your body. Right.

Speaker A: Where do you get the samples then? I guess through the factory. Through the factory, they'll give you samples.

Speaker B: So what you'll do is you'll take your tech pack, and again, based off what it is, you can start talking to the factory ahead of time. Say, I'm working on the tech pack. This is roughly what I want. What fabrics do you recommend? What do you have? All that. You can kind of start that process ahead of time, but you're going to want to get it in. And then once you know what the fabric is, you have your tech pack most of the time. And every factory is different. You. You're typically looking anywhere from three to six weeks for sampling.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And that includes them, um, making everything and then shipping it to you. Right? And yes, at, uh, those you're shipping it. Air usually arrives in a week, but you're looking at that time, and then from there you're like, all right, do I like my sample? Am I happy with it? Where do I want to go from here? Right. Are we happy? Ready to move forward? Or no, I need to see another revisions. I don't like what fabric it is. All right, factory, go find me different fabrics. Send me an extra out. You're almost starting all over once you get your sample and you're like, hey, um, like, I actually just did some shorts for Palmer, and, um, I realized I made. Because we redid our tech packs after I got the short, and I realized I made a little mistake on my own tech pack, right? I didn't know until I got the order in. And, like, oh, when we did the measurements, we measured from here to here, not here to here. And when we did the tech pack, we did it. So it wasn't a big deal, but it was about the shorts on the side were about an inch shorter than we wanted them, and it kind of just curved up a little bit more than you want, right? So we got to go edit the tech pack. We got to add that extra inch back due to how we set it up. Um, so then it comes down to, all right, do we need to do another round of, uh, sampling? Know that typically with tech, uh, sampling, it's not going to be a hundred percent finished product, but it's going to be close enough where you know if you're getting what you want. Right. It's the right fabric is the right shape, all the little like finishings and all that type of stuff. Typically like you're, you're not going to have that yet. Right. Like you're not going to have your full branding on it. Um, not your tags. Like maybe they do like I did like actually producing this at one time a factory, instead of doing this 3D, you know, silicone, you know, rubber patch, they just did it embroidered. Right. So we could just see what it looked like. But I wasn't worried about that part. I was more focused on the construction,

Speaker C: the fabric, all of that.

Speaker B: Right. And so you got to say, all right, are we at a place where we think we're good with the tech pack and the sample or do we got to make modifications? Um, and do I need to do a second round of, you know, samples? Well, if you do another round, that's gonna be another three to six weeks to get it done. Um, and again, somebody with experience kind of has an idea of like, oh, this is something minor that we can tweak during final production, or this is like, no, we need to do a whole another round of samples. Right. And then once you have the happy tech pack ready to go, you place the full order, or sample is ready to go, you place the full order. And typically it's anywhere from based on the factory, four weeks to eight weeks. Some factories can even be 12 weeks.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: And then what a lot of people don't think about is that China does things different with their holidays. Like you have Chinese New Year, lunar New Year, where the entire country shuts down for two to three weeks. Mhm. Wow. So you got to plan around that.

Speaker A: When it, when is that? When is the.

Speaker B: That's in February.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So if you're like, right now I'm working on the Palmer Line four, that's going to come out in spring.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I'm planning on releasing that in February so that it's like come everything coming in. So we're releasing maybe late February, going in kind of like the March area.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: But I need everything done landed to me in January. Right. Like because February's gonna shut down and then just because they come back online now, they're like three weeks behind on stuff too, and they're playing kind of catch up. So it can get a little bit delayed.

Speaker A: And to clarify, we're in November. So like 4ish months or so.

Speaker B: Exactly. Right. Like I want, I'm in the sampling process right now for a product that I want to come out in March.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker A: Um, so you really like. I mean, just on the, on the marketing side, I guess I'm just trying to like simultaneously, uh, you've got to figure out the, the branding, the website, everything like that. And then you've got to basically six months ahead be planning for this is when I'm going to officially be able to have my product and be able to um, you know, launch. Question for you on the sampling side, because I'm thinking of like people who are smart and like launching a website ahead of time and like, you know,

Speaker B: can I add one thing real quick? So everything we're talking about right now is talking about using overseas factories, correct?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: The timelines all change when you're doing everything domestic.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And yes, there are domestic cut and sew houses here. It's going to be expensive, right. Maybe that's part of your business model. Hey, I'm doing it made in the USA and I'm willing to have that price tag.

Speaker A: How much more roughly M. It could

Speaker B: easily be based on your volume, like 3x2 to 3x more. Again, it's based on what your items are type deal. But 2 to 3x is what I would expect.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: If you're doing something US manufacturing. Okay. Uh, and I even think about like blank T shirts. Right. Like the shirt I can buy for $3, I'm typically gonna buy it if it's US made. Same type of T shirt. Typically I'm gonna be paying closer to probably the six dollar range for. That's for a blank T shirt.

Speaker A: You get speed but you pay for it with the, the cost. Basically.

Speaker B: Yes. And so when I talk about. So when I'm designing my, the line for Palmer, I'm designing everything that needs to be done overseas for first and then anything that I'm going to do here domestically, you know, most time you're looking at two, three weeks.

Speaker A: That's what I was wondering. So what's the. The timeline gets cut by a dramatic amount.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Obviously there's some R and D still. You got to make sure you're using the right garments and all that. But if you already know that, you know, like you're saying, oh, this is the hoodie, this is the T shirt brand. Right. I really love to use as color blanks. That's one of my favorite blank companies. Right. Their stuff is one of the best qualities out there.

Speaker A: I was gonna ask you that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you got some, you got some top ones that you know?

Speaker B: Um, there's a lot of good ones out there. I think as color is probably My personal favorite right now when it comes to blanks. Um.

Speaker C: Is that what you have on?

Speaker B: Yeah, this is actually color. Um, we'll be doing a lot more as color stuff here in a little bit. But yeah, that's. Now there's other brands out there. Not bad, right? Again, it's based on what your price point is, what you want. Um, um. One of the reasons I love as quality as colors is because when the quality is outstanding, also prints fabulous. That's one of the things that people don't think about is that um, you might have a shirt and it's like, oh, this shirt's fine. And then it prints like garbage. Um, because it's just how it's sewn.

Speaker A: Who do we want to avoid? Then

Speaker B: again when you go with the budget brands, that's when you see that more.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. Stuff like again, Gildan's not bad. You know, Toltec, very PC over here. Toltec is a great affordable. I tell a lot of my customers, hey, Toltec's a great starter brand if you want something that's ring spun and affordable. But like you're not going to print as well. Right. It's not going to be horrible. Again it comes down to like the um, the type of printing you're also doing and the skill of the printer, that type of stuff. Right. Um, like I can actually print how I could print as color would be very different than I was printing like a uh, cheap budget Gildan 5000. Right. Like there's more I need to put into it like to make it look like a good print. It's not that you can't get a good print at the end of the day, but as long as you know what garments you want, you have your designs, you go to a screen printer, an embroiderer, someplace domestic. Most of the time it's two to three weeks to get stuff out the door. And that's what I was saying earlier is that when there are products and you're, especially when you're starting out, I would say like 80%, 90% of the time you can probably find something pretty close that you can start with here and do decorations.

Speaker A: I'm glad you mentioned it for one because there is, there are. This is the largest amount that I've ever seen for our new brand. Uh, and they went the route that you were talking about there and instead of the latter where they went and went to the manufacturer and they, they honestly had a great deal. Their, their line was extremely long, uh, or wide I would say. And it was a boutique and there's I think like $550,000 into manufacturing and I, as of like a week ago or something like that maybe have made a thousand dollars. So I mean that's the most extreme obviously. But uh, it just goes to show, like if there's options to do something to just prove the concept, like your idea in your head, I maybe you probably deal with that too. Everybody's baby is the cutest and they.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And this one you don't understand is going to be a million dollar per month brand. You just don't know it yet. Like weird.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, you gotta love it.

Speaker B: I might have been listening to some YouTube channel recently. Who Somebody, uh, we won't say a name, mentioned something that like, you know, quality is subjective. You know, like you might think it's greatest thing in the world, but really the world that's gonna tell you what it looks like, you know, like, are they going to like your content? Are they going to like your product? Yeah, you might love it, but does it resonate? Mhm. And I think one of the hardest things, and I deal with this with my personal brand, right. I know how to make killer products. Trying to market them is a different story, it's a very different beast. I can sell my products very easily in person when people can see it, feel it, touch it.

Speaker A: So then I'll put you on the spot right now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Palmer, you got 30 seconds.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Who is this for exactly? The exact customer, like who would be perfect for Palmer. You got.

Speaker B: So our focus is families. Palmer is a brand that me and my wife started. It is our passion project. I have two kids with type 1 diabetes. Um, if you're not familiar with it, I won't go into a long spiel but like do some research. Most people think diabetes, they think, um, type two, type one is very different, it wrecks people's families. Um, but I've been dealing with it for over 10 years. It's a big part of my life. And so we're very family based. We want to give back to that community because that's what we, that's our life that we live every single day. But we want to make product to one, support that community, give back. We're making some unique items that are we call pump friendly, um, that could help fix some challenges. Um, but that's a, obviously a small niche, but at the end of the day we're a family. We want to make clothing for other families. Right. And so that's our focus. You know, father, son, you Know, mother, daughter, do some matching stuff, be that kind of one stop shop where. And we're more resort wear style. We're from Florida, we're loud, everything.

Speaker A: Throw me one of those shirts or whatever. We'll pull them back over here because they. Those are, those are both Palm.

Speaker B: Yeah. So we're not. Not for everybody. Um, so we are more that coastal vibes or people going on, you know, vacations. But we want to do stuff that's, you know, loud and bright and stands out. But it's made for families at the end of the day and we want to be. We're trying to find that good price point before where we're not that fast fashion, where you're gonna buy it, wear it for one time, and it's gonna fall apart or shrink really bad. Um, but we're not trying to go the super luxury. We're trying to find that really good middle ground where it's affordable. It's at a higher price point than you're gonna go if you go buy something at Walmart or Target, obviously. But it's going to last and be there for a long time.

Speaker A: So this is for a kid, correct?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: I don't know if Christian's gonna get into that or not, but that is the kids version. Okay.

Speaker B: We did. We have adult version.

Speaker A: I saw the adult version. That's what I was saying that. I know the. Remember the, the, the ice cream and everything. So this shirt for a kid, um, that. Who knows the podcast. You're going to raise the prices because it's new, it's selling out like crazy. But roughly, what's a range for this here, price wise?

Speaker B: Um, what I cost me to manufacture it?

Speaker A: No, no, no. Just retail. Retail for this.

Speaker B: So we actually just load our pricing. We actually just went through this whole debate, me and my wife talking about it, because we want to make things more forceable, especially for kids and families. And so it cost me the same amount to produce the adult version as it does the kids version. Even though it's less fabric. Well, it's the same cost at the end of the day. I know, right? I mean, maybe, like again, a lot of times we're doing at the same time, so they probably like average it out. The cost. At the end of the day, when the factory gives me a price, if it is like, it's not much, it's like 50 cents a dollar, you know, cheaper maybe because it's a little bit less fabric. Um, but we're selling those polos now for $49. And the adult ones are going to be 59.

Speaker A: Okay. And you can share that. I mean, uh, you can share the margins if you want to. If not, we can. That's completely fine. But, um, for something like that in general, whenever you're talking to a business owner, uh, do you ever consult and like, you should have this margin because we hear people all the time. They're like, if they go the print on demand route, which is completely different than what we're talking about here, but if they use something like a print, a fire printful, their margins at the absolute best are going to be like 45, 50% minimum. But do you ever advise and say, like, hey, look, if you're doing this yourself to like, after marketing and, you know, paying for everything, Because I think a lot of people don't understand how many expenses go into a small business with this is like you had tariffs and taxes and marketing and everything else that goes into it. It's like, do you suggest like a range that people are in that's like a healthy, like, so they can keep the business alive, roughly, or.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, with anything, you want to be at least 3xing, take your cost, at least 3x. Like you want to be in that kind of price range or, you know, 70 profits, all that.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because when you get in the marketing, all your operating expenses, like, you gotta like kind of be in that range to even survive most of the time. Um, but when you're talking about the cost, uh, there's something I will share. Like, I don't want to give all my costs away, but. But there is one thing I will share. So because I am a manufacturer, I'm reselling. Right. I have a lot of people coming to me right now, businesses having me produce Polos just like that. The cost that I charge them to do, let's say 100 polos of that quality is around $19.

Speaker A: Oh, wow.

Speaker B: I am of course, marking that up, making money. I'm also handling everything.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So you obviously know that I'm paying a lot less for that.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: But that gives you an idea. But when I'm dealing with a lot of these businesses, especially like corporate companies, um, like, I'm doing a lot for like, medical companies right now who have their sales reps who go on the road. Well, they always go and buy Nike Polos or some big brand, and they go to a company like Threadbird who they're gonna get their logo embroidered on it. Right. A lot of times they're spending 40 to $50 on a polo after buying the blank. And part of it's because they're paying for a name brand, you know, all that type of stuff.

Speaker C: Well,

Speaker B: you can get something that's nicer, at least in my opinion. Right. Nicer, cooler. You're going to stand out. If you're at a conference, for example, like, do you want to be the person that has the boring white polo with your logo embroidered on it that blends in with everybody else, or do you want to do something that stands out and kind of pops and people are like, well, that's really cool. Right? Like, people remember you from what you're wearing and then it's less than half what you're usually paying. So there's that kind of. Now you have to wait longer. But again, planning all that type of stuff and when working with somebody who knows what they're doing. So like, I do, like, I don't do sampling for polos because I have that dialed in and my customer knows what they're going to get already. Right. Um, and so somebody can order it and hey, you're going to have polos in four to six weeks, paying 19, $20. Some in that general range. And that's pretty good, you know, price, especially for a company that's spending a lot more.

Speaker C: Yeah, I had, I, I see every single one of these pieces actually says supporting type 1 diabetes.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Which you don't see a lot.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker C: For, you know, companies who say, like, hey, we support, um, but you have it on every single piece of garment. And the hat is on the inside, it's on one of the strips. Um, and I know you mentioned this a couple of times already during our conversation. Is this the add ons as the little customizations? How important? And I guess two questions with Palmer. Did you start doing all these little details, intricacies right away or have you added or tacked on as time has come? And like, the other question was more on, you know, if a, uh, brand is just starting out, do you recommend doing all these little details? Like, does that, you know, move the needle? Does that actually make a big difference? Starting on that is a great question.

Speaker B: And it really comes down to how you're doing it when you're producing in China or cut and sew from scratch? The answer is 100%.

Speaker C: Yes. Okay.

Speaker B: Because the cost to do these little things is minimal.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Right. Like the cost to produce that hat is with all the bells and whistles,

Speaker C: which is this has everything.

Speaker B: I feel like this literally has everything.

Speaker A: Right. Little thing on the side, uh, like rope hat.

Speaker B: I obviously, I Sell embroidery. You know, like I'll probably get yelled at later by somebody. But like hats are one of those items you should always do overseas. Because the cost that I do with all the bells and whistles and it's fully custom is gonna be the same cost that most of the time I'm buying a hat blank here at wholesale.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And then I have to then decorate it. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so you're thinking like, and yes, they got some cheaper brands that are a little bit cheaper. Right. But then as soon as you start adding the like, all right, I'm going to embroider the front or I'm going to sew a patch on or something. You're like, well you're just paying more money and all you did was buy a blank hat and embroidered a logo on the front of it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So at that point. Yeah. You want to be again doing things domestically. Right. Like you got to make sure you're hitting right price points. You got to know what really matters. And I say this a lot in screen printing is huge. Right. Like one, you want to make sure you have good quality, you know, garment that you're printing on. You want to be able to stand out. You can't do everything because you're going to price yourself out and not be able to resell it at the end of the day. Right. Unless you're really going for that premium brand. And that's where my issue with a lot of times these print on demand companies and I can go on a whole rant, that's a whole pet peeve of mine. Right. But like you're literally just getting a shirt with a poorly done print on the front of it and that's it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. And you're paying this high price, um, for it. That's honestly typically not worth it. But like if you really like even the shirt I'm wearing. Right. Like just nothing crazy, two color screen print. But I added the tag on the side.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I mean that adds a little bit like you got to get the tags produced and you have this, somebody sew it on. That's going to add a little bit to it. Is that worth it? In my opinion, yes. Because you guys being marketing people, you know, you need to be able to sell something for a price point. There's no way that you can run ads, especially paid ads for something that is $20.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Even if you got a five dollar cost and you, if you sell it, you make $15, you're probably not selling a product and making m like, uh, you're probably not getting a buyer for $15.

Speaker A: Right. So.

Speaker B: So how can I increase my costs to sell it more, to actually be able to market my company? And that's where I think these other things come in. But you still got to do it in a way that's smart.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I tell people, like, it's fine if you want to do it. Like if you're screen printing something has a lot of colors on it, that's fine. But you probably don't want to do something with a lot of colors in the front, a lot of colors on the back. They want to do a tag plus printed all the, like if you do all the bells, whistles, you're going to price yourself out. M. Right. You got to be smart and creative and know what your costs are. And again, maybe when you're doing something with a little bit more designs, maybe you like, I really want to use this blank, but I'm going to go slightly more affordable on the blank. Like not a budget blank, but maybe I'm going like a tear down to kind of make up for the additional ink colors and all of that. Right. So dang.

Speaker A: You mentioned on the, the Print on Demand side of things, I, um, feel like people go that route because there's low risk. Right. Or what perceived risk. Maybe that's the difference. Um, so perceived risk there, but then you get people. So there was a, um, there's a brand and I think maybe I've introduced you guys before, but there's a brand out in New York. He started Print on Demand just to see he got laid off. He had a little bit of capital. He's like, let me just make some designs. Did Print on Demand and then he started like, you know, not having much margins and also started getting some comments about the quality for it or at least the ones that he has chosen. But at what point, like, and uh, I think you've told me before is like, when does it make sense to go to kind of the other side of the business? Which is like, hey, I am done shipping out of my garage and I went that cut and sew route. I don't want the quality of Print on demand, but I also would like to have my garage to put, you know, my lawnmower in instead of shipping this thing out like crazy. Because there's ironically another brand that I know and I've talked to her multiple times throughout the week who needs to go this route. But like, when does it make sense to move into like a 3 PL or third party logistics company who like, handles everything. Maybe you can talk on like, yeah, what does that company handle? And then when does it make sense to actually bring somebody in for that? Because I know there's got to be a price point for that too.

Speaker B: So two great questions. I'm gonna. I want to spend time on both of them. So I'm gonna answer one first and then go into three pl side second. Okay. Because they're both very important questions and I want to make sure I answer these in, uh, a great way. Right. I'm not a fan of Print on Demand. Right. It's because I've been in this industry a long time. I care about quality, all those things. It doesn't mean print on demand is bad. There is a place for it. Clip this, you know, post it. Crash me later.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: In my personal opinion, you are not a real clothing brand if you're doing Print on Demand.

Speaker A: Oh yeah, we are going to clip that.

Speaker C: Clip it. Yeah. Right.

Speaker B: Like, call me out. I don't care. Right, right. Like, I'll start the debate. And what I mean by that is it's not that you're not a real clothing brand, but it's, it's. What is your goal, the clothing brand? If you're making shirts that are like funny memes like print, a man's probably fine. If you're focused on trends and things that are like, hey, like, the design is what's selling it. It's not your branding, I think that's the biggest thing. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Somebody's going to see your design and be like, oh, that's funny. I'm going to buy it and say, impulse buy. Print on demand is probably the right route for you.

Speaker C: Yeah. You're not building a brand, but you're

Speaker B: not building a brand. Right. People aren't coming back. And I'll tell you a story of a client that doing print on demand, doing very well, selling hundreds of pieces every single month. Came to talk to me because he's not profitable. Spending a lot of money on ads. Right. You guys hear the story all the time.

Speaker A: That's a new one.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, right. And he's like, man, I'm selling this. I'm like, yeah, those are great numbers. But his acquisition costs and the biggest thing he said was, well, I got great sales, but nobody ever comes back.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And I go, all right, let me do a little research. I look through all his products. Very strong niche, knows who his ideal customer is. I even went out and ordered a sample of one of his shirts, had it come in. He was Printing on the Gildan 5000.

Speaker C: Oh gosh.

Speaker B: Uh, the print quality. Because again, like I'm already not a fan of direct, uh, to garment printing. Well put. Do print direct to garment printing on a bad blank. Double whammy. So the print looks horrible.

Speaker A: What's the direct to garment?

Speaker B: Direct to garment is what we call dtg and that's what print on demand is. So that is the printing method. And so you can basically think of it as a giant like inkjet printer. Like literally the printer that you almost you have at your house. Mhm. Right. Like that you're, you know, you'll buy and you're going to print, you know, whatever color out. Think of one of those that's bigger that you literally stick a T shirt in and little prints it directly onto the shirt.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, there are ways to make DTG look good at times, but typically with Direct to garment or sorry, with Print on demand, again, low margins, trying to print out quick, they're not going to spend time to make your designs look good, the coverage is horrible, all that. Right. And so with this clothing brand, their niche and their target audience are people that actually would spend money on clothes because they're already doing it. They're people who are spending money and a lot of money on clothes already. And now he's trying to take a little bit piece of the piece, but he's going after these people who want premium but putting out a low quality.

Speaker A: So he's actually just hurting his brand.

Speaker B: He's just hurting himself. Right. And I was like, if you want to do this right, you can't do the print on demand model. Uh, like first off, you're using the wrong blank. And actually with who you're marketing to, you want something that's gonna be heavier weight, drop shoulder. Like you want a streetwear brand blank. Right. You probably want to do things like the tags and finishings and all that type of stuff because the people who are actually going to wear your stuff actually are going to care about it.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Some people don't care about that. His target audience does care about it. So yes, they see that, they're like, that's awesome. I'm totally going to get that, get his product in and be like, this is horrible. I'm never buying this ever again. Yeah, but he set his entire business model around Print on demand and now he can't get away from it because that's his entire identity and he can't like without doing something dramatic. He built his entire business and that's where I See, people make the most mistakes is that they build an entire product line around print on demand and they think the more designs, the better. I'll go put out 2000 shirt designs and I'm okay selling one of two of each design instead of having a hero product that you can promote. And that is why it doesn't work. So besides the fact that you're putting out poor quality, people are not going to come back. There's nothing special about it. You're not building a true brand around your name. That is why to me, you're not a real clothing brand if you're using print on demand. To your second question, I see this with so many brands and I will be the first to tell you, I am a huge fan of you shipping out your product yourself. First you should do it because one, it's going to save you money and you need that in those early stages. You need every dollar out there. You can spend time on the personal touches, right. Writing the letter, all that type of stuff that you won't be able to do necessarily when you get to a bigger 3 PL. And you need to do that to build the brand loyalty, give it that wow factor. But it does come a place when, if you're spending more time shipping out packages every day, then marketing your brand, it becomes a problem.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I have a client that I've been working with for over 10 years. When I first started working with him, we were doing all the screen printing and we would ship to him and he was doing it out of his garage, shipping himself. And he was a few years into his brand, doing great. I think he was around about a thousand shirts a month shipping. That's a lot of shirts to be shipping out of your garage. All right. Yeah. And let me tell you, the number when you need a switch is a lot lower than that. He was making it work. And then he made a huge mistake. He went on vacation because how dare he go on vacation.

Speaker A: Well, he should rock Palmer when he does.

Speaker B: I know, right? So he literally goes on his website, hey, we're going on vacation. Be gone for a week. Any orders place from this time to this time will get shipped the following week. Like banner right on top of website. Do you think anybody actually read that?

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely not.

Speaker B: Do you think anybody cared? And let me tell you, this was probably eight years ago. This is before we came into the,

Speaker A: uh, Amazon need it now situation world

Speaker B: that we live in. I need my package shipping within a few hours. He came back from vacation flooded with emails, pissed off customers, you're a scam. Bad reviews everywhere. Like he had better business bureau, like reports, people still using that. I don't know. Right. Like you're a scam, all that type of stuff. And then he's, he's getting more emails, he's spending more time trying to respond to everybody's emails and who are upset than he can ship out his orders, which is getting him even more farther behind.

Speaker C: Mm.

Speaker B: So of course he first comes to me and say, hey, uh, instead of like he wasn't ready to give up fulfillment yet because it's a big step for a lot of people. He's like, hey, I know you're printing these. So like if I print like 500 and if I send you like I set up as a pre sale, you know, like can you ship out whatever the pre sales are first and then ship me the rest to help me out? Like, sure, we'll do that. Right. We're printing it. We'll pull out the ones that we need to ship out, we'll ship them out, we'll ship the rest to him. And then he runs the day to day orders. Right. Started out that way and then eventually he was like, all right, can you just take it all over? So during that time again, it was, if I remember this is about eight years ago. I think it was about a thousand items a month. Maybe not thousand orders, but a thousand items. Right. Within the first year of him giving up, that number went from 1,000 to 5,000 items in a month.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker B: Then it was either one or two years later he had his biggest month he's ever done with 60,000 items shipped.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Now how is that even possible? First off, you're never going to be able to ship those out of your garage. Right. And uh, are you ready to go get a warehouse? And listen, you can go get a warehouse if you want. You also need to make sure you hire people. You're not going to hire your friends to go, you know, ship out of a warehouse and all this. And there's the amount of logistics that go into it is a nightmare.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker B: Because people think, oh, I'll just get my own warehouse, a little one. I'll do it myself. Right. You're going to regret that. Uh, like out of your garage is fine. Yeah. Do not go get a long term lease and all that. Plus then you're also stuck with trying to scale. Right. When you do eventually grow.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: But when you give up handling the logistics and fulfillment, as long as you do it right and the keywords to do it right which is I'm freeing up my time or buying back my time to put it into growing my business. If you're spending on average, let's just say two hours a day shipping out packages, what will two hours a day, if you focus 100%, uh, of that on growing your business, on marketing, making additional social media content, or it can even be a thing of like, hey, I want to give, get back, spend more time with my kids, m, my spouse. You know, a lot of times they're the people that get sacrificed the most. And there is no magic number. But I usually tell people it's if you're spending more time shipping than marketing your company or growing your business, that's when it becomes a problem. If you are neglecting family, then it's a problem. I usually find, again, everybody's a little bit different. But when you get to that place, when you're trying to ship a few hundred packages in a month, that's where that number typically is. Right. If it is 300 packages a month, that means you're typically probably shipping 10 orders a day. Right. Like every day. But then I said like my, the one client. What do you do when you go on vacation?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: What happens when you have a family emergency? What happens when you. Honestly, people burn themselves out more than anything?

Speaker A: Well, this lady, she's pregnant. She's going to have a kid. I mean, not that she, you know, whatever, but during the birth, she's. She's literally not going to be able to ship orders or handle anything and hopefully everything goes smoothly.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But it's also, I think it's like, it's mitigating risk more than anything. It is like the, the opportunity cost, but also the what happens if something does happen? Because everybody avoids the, you know, everything in my life is going to go completely fine. Everybody else's is going to be crazy, but I'll always be there to be able to ship orders, always be able to sell.

Speaker C: And what is it? Is it just relinquishing control? Is that what it kind of boils down to?

Speaker B: People think that one, they think they can't afford it.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: Right. Like, they think it's going to be such a big cost to them to handle, you know, giving up fulfillment.

Speaker A: What is, what is the normal range of, like, how, how does that get priced? I guess.

Speaker B: Yeah. So there are, every company's a little bit different, but there's two main things that you really need to think about. One being is the pick and pack. So typically, how we do it is there's A cost for the first item. And then there are costs for each additional item that goes into a package. And obviously the second, third, all that are cheaper than the first item. Right. And again, based off your volume and the company that you're working with, like, you know, like again, companies have to make money. So again, that's why I said like when you're only doing a few hundred, like, it's hard for like a company like mine even to make money off of it, to be completely honest. Um, but you know, maybe you're paying A$50 for the first item. Mhm. They have somebody else ship it out.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: And then there's a cost for each additional one, but it might be like 50 cents to a dollar. Again, a lot of it scales based off of what your volume is. Right. Um, so that's your first cost. Then the second cost is. And honestly, I think this is the biggest one that people get themselves in trouble in and if they're not smart is actually the storage.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: One you want to get back Your, your house.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You're doing in your garage.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: But we have to store it in our building and warehouses and offices. Buildings, all that are expensive. Right. Like, it's great when you can do it free out of your garage. You can't always stay there. But we got to pay for those costs. And I have one client right now and actually it's not, I want to just say it's one client. So a lot of clients have this issue is they don't get rid of their old products, you know, and they don't realize how much money they're actually losing because they're sitting on dead inventory. Some of these clients, it would be better for them to give away their product or throw it away than to continue to pay the storage costs. Right. Like if a product is not moving, if it's been sitting on the shelf for a year, you got to get rid of it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: All the big brands do it. That's why you have, you know, these T.J. maxx's. Right. Marshalls, all those. Right. The big brands, once they get to a point they liquid weight everything or that's why they do clearance. They're like, man, how come I can get this like $50 shirt for $5? Because literally they're getting ready to throw it away. They're hoping to make a little bit of money off of it because they're paying more money in the storage cost of things.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, that's an insight there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I just checked A few minutes, it looked like it was good. Hello?

Speaker B: Hello.

Speaker A: Oh, okay. That's what I was just watching the volume. Okay. That's even more helpful.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I honestly feel like that's the cost that people get. Get in trouble when it moving to a3PL is the storage. But you just got to be smart about it, right? But it's honestly, if your products are getting you in trouble, you have a bigger problem with your business model. You know, like, and I have this one brand who is crushing it, doing a lot, but they get really stubborn where they don't want to clearance their old items out. They rather pay the storage costs. And I'm like, it drives me crazy at the end of day, I was like, come on. Like, if you want to give me a check, great. But like, I don't want to take your money. I'd rather you get rid of your stuff and have a healthier business.

Speaker A: Uh, so curious on this. And we don't have to go too much further into that because that pricing makes sense logistically. How does that work? Like, you know, for Shopify, like, do you guys just get access to the Shopify store and then you just print them on your own? Like, how does that, the logistical side of things work?

Speaker B: So we have a WMS software that we use, which is a warehouse management software. Um, and through an API, we connect through their Shopify. Okay, cool. So a lot of times how it works is just like you install a Shopify app, you install an app for our, uh, wms.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And then through there it is, through the API, it connects it. So all your orders, all your products, everything so is in Shopify. It lives there. But all that gets pushed to our system as well. So we have a full list of all the orders that we need to ship out. We have full, um. And software that we're using is like top of the line stuff, right? Like everything's barcoded. We know how everything works. Like where it's at in a warehouse. Right. When you're doing out of your garage, you know, you're like, oh, I know it's somewhere in that corner. Right?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: When you're in a 100,000 square foot building, you need to know exactly where it is. Right. And so our software, every SKU is signed to a location. And then some SKUs can have multiple locations based off of how much you have, including like overstock. Right. Like, let's say for a bigger brand, they might order a thousand of something. Well, we don't need to have a thousand active of an inventory of a SKU edit at one time we might make 100. And then put the other 900 and a pallet up on the rafters. Right. And then we pull it down as we need to, to kind of restock. Um, and so our software is able to know where everything is in the warehouse. Everything's barcode. We have iPads that tell you where to go. It's actually rolling out this crazy uh, AI stuff. It's actually going to tell you where our pickers are going to be able to walk through in the warehouse. It tells you like you're going to walk down and take a right here. Like it's crazy. The stuff that's getting ready, it's coming out right now with it. Um, and so with an iPad, we know where to go. We scan the barcode, a picture pops up, we see the item, we can confirm we have the right item. Mhm. It goes in these totes. We're able to pick like our pickers are doing something like 150 items an hour. Like we're that efficient.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: Right. And then we have people who are just going around picking everything. They go in the totes, they go to a packing station. A packer will then scan the tote, that order pops up. We take all the items out, it goes on to the packing station. A picture is actually taking of the packing station. So right there we can go back and tell if somebody says, hey, I'm um, missing an item or I got something wrong. We can go back and we have Lily footage to see if, what if we did something wrong?

Speaker A: That's dope.

Speaker B: Or if a customer's lying. Don't want to call people liars, but

Speaker A: I never received that package.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, um, but we can at least say, hey, before it got in the box or the poly bag, we know it was on the table. So if it's not in there, where'd it go? Right. Type deal. Um, it takes a picture, generates the label, prints it out and it ships out. And then because we're working with all the carriers, we have very good negotiable rates. We have great shipping rates. We just have a lot better rates than most people. When, if you're doing anything international. Uh, international. A whole nother beast when you're trying to ship overseas. Again, we're kind of handling all that for you. Um, but like we're able to ship packages very quickly. Right. Especially when you have like a big, you, uh, know, boom. Right. You never know when somebody's aware of something famous and you're gonna, you know, go viral and you get out of inventory. Right. Uh, 3PL is able to flex and do all those things to help you get things out the door.

Speaker C: Small question, but I'm very curious.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, when you print the labels, do you. Does it charge the customer automatically through Shopify, or do you then have to invoice them through?

Speaker B: We. We invoice them once.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: We're using our. Our shipping accounts.

Speaker C: Okay.

Speaker B: And so we're actually. Actually doing all that work for you for an entire month for free, basically. Basically, yeah. And so once, um, a month, we send you an invoice saying, here's how many orders we shipped out, here's how many items we shipped out, here's how much storage you paid for, and here's the shipping costs.

Speaker C: Gotcha.

Speaker B: That we, you know, charge you for all that. And you paid that one bill.

Speaker A: Question on the. So I think that all sounds amazing. One. Uh, I would just do that because it sounds like a logistical nightmare for myself. But my question is, I. I personally tell people to, like, personalize as much as you can as you're starting a brand. Like, how do you not lose the personalization where it seems like it's coming out of your garage when you go to a3pl, are there ways to, like, still have your own inserts or stickers or things like that? Or is that, like, that's just something you have to give up?

Speaker B: No, you can. 100. You can. Can't do everything, but you can still make it personal. Right. Um, custom packaging, highly recommend it. It doesn't cost that much to do. Right. Like, you can go out there and go get poly bags created with your logo and branding and all that type of stuff in it. Um, boxes get a little bit more expensive, but if anything, you can at least get a custom poly bag. Um, even the product that you're, you know, for us, it's all about presentation. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: When you get a Palmer Polo in, well, we have a special packaging that. That Polo comes in already. So not only are you opening the poly bag, then there's. All the products are in another bag. That's customizable, looks higher end. Right. Um, then things like postcards, stickers, all that. We put a postcard and we put a sticker and every single order that goes out for Palmer. Right. In our custom poly bags and all that type of stuff. Are we able to write on it and do a personal note? No. Like, sadly, no. Right. And that's the one thing you really can't Do. But yes, you can put like a free sticker in a postcard, all those type of things. And honestly we're fans for that. Like when we do things, we encourage it and we tell everybody. We won't even charge you like for one. We'll give. We'll do one free item. Mhm. Like if it's a sticker, it's a postcard, all that. And you can still make it personal. Right. Like there's unique ways to do it where you can still have that, like that thank you message or you have like a message and there's a QR code where you can scan it and then there's a. Sends you to a video that you're like making. You can make it personal. The one thing you can't do is that. Right. Thank you. You know, Rebecca, for your purchase. It means the world you, you can't personalize it in that way. That's the one downside.

Speaker C: Damn, you good.

Speaker A: You got a question? Mhm. All right.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I mean I feel like I covered most m. I was

Speaker A: going to say, I think we just.

Speaker C: I think, uh, you want to do a couple. Maybe rapid fire or something.

Speaker A: Do that. What are we time last 118. Yeah. What do you got? Rapid fire. The best of the best. What do you got?

Speaker C: Um, well, obviously your favorite blank. I think we kind of know the as color.

Speaker B: As color. I think that's one of my. And I love mineral wash blanks as well. So the as color has a mineral wash and that's probably my favorite shirt is obviously more expensive, but like it just looks cool. Yeah.

Speaker C: Any, uh, any color combo that just makes you absolutely cringe.

Speaker B: Um, blue and orange together always makes me cringe.

Speaker C: People do it. Do you try to steer them away or.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, I don't. I mean I'm not going to tell people how to do things. That's the color combination that really bugs me. I also live in the state of Florida and there's a big university here that I can't stand that has those colors. So that I might be biased because

Speaker A: I was going to say I think that may be a Florida State guy.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, um, but I just. That to me that color combination is cringe.

Speaker C: But uh, any of the weirdest design, anything that has stood out or you're just like, this is not right.

Speaker B: I mean, oh man, I'm trying to think if there's that one. We've always had stuff. There's definitely stuff I've turned down before that I'm like, yeah, we Will not print that. Um, but I'm trying to think if there's something that was just like, oh, ah, man. I mean, again, it comes down to if you're gonna get something printed, please make sure your artwork is good. Like, if you have bad artwork, it's gonna print bad. There's no saving it. Right. Like.

Speaker A: And you mean like quality, as in like high quality? Like high DPI or like an AI file?

Speaker B: That type of quality, you need something that is high resolution or vector.

Speaker A: Got it. Cool.

Speaker B: Like, vector is always your best option at the end of the day. Not everything can be vectorized. Anything that's with shading and all that, you can't really vectorize. But, like, um, like, you need to make sure the quality of the file that you're giving to the one. And because we live in this AI world, everybody going on canva just thinking they're designers and, oh, here's I'm going to design my T shirt on there. And a lot of times, like, they either don't know how to export it. Right. Or even canva export it in, like, a really bad quality.

Speaker C: So, last question. If you could collaborate any clothing brand, I know you had your start with maybe music and bands and like, maybe it also could be something like that. But any dream project or someone that you're like, that would be an amazing collaboration. Or, uh.

Speaker B: Star Wars.

Speaker C: Star Wars.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: If I can do some type of Star wars collaboration. Um, I mean, that. That is the dream at the end of the day for me. So, yeah, it's awesome, Nick.

Speaker A: Thank you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Do you want to do, uh, a, uh, just a quick. Give us your, like, uh, what is the hot ones. They do, uh, look at the camera. You got 15 seconds.

Speaker B: You know, like, say, like, who I am and stuff.

Speaker C: Yeah, I know. Like, uh, yeah, talk about Threatbird with your services, what we can offer to them and all that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: So, um, my name is Nick. I'm with Threadbird. We are a custom merchandise agency. We love working with clothing brands. That is who we love working with. We just like to make really high quality product at the end of the day. And we want to take care of people. We don't want to be people's printers. We want to be their partners at the end of the day and help them actually grow and get to the right level and do all the stuff that you shouldn't be doing so you can actually grow your business. And we do anything from screen printing, embroidery. We have factories for cut and sew and we do fulfillment with our own in house three plus.