The BIG Strategy Podcast · 2026-04-21 · 15 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
35 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
This episode centers on the strategic importance of recognizing inherited advantages and platforms built by predecessors, using Jeff's father's influence as the anchoring narrative. Jeff explores how acknowledging those shoulders creates competitive advantage and separates visionary operators from transactional ones. He draws parallels to California redwoods, which only thrive because they eventually grow tall enough to access hidden ecosystem networks built by older trees - a metaphor for leaders who must move beyond constant defensive preparation (his father's costly mindset) toward forward-looking growth and delegation. The episode pivots to Vistage, the peer advisory group model, where CEOs create spaces of radical vulnerability through issue processing sessions, allowing leaders to admit uncertainty without losing status. Jeff names two critical mistakes leaders make: erasing contributors from success narratives (which kills culture) and pulling the ladder up by refusing to mentor the next generation - replicating an extraction economy mindset. He closes with the "shoulder check" framework: acknowledge one person whose shoulders you've stood on, and identify one person whose shoulders you need to become.
Vistage is a peer advisory group model where CEOs gather in confidential spaces for issue processing - dedicating 15-30 minutes to collectively address one member's business challenge. Its strategic power lies in making vulnerability the currency of success rather than a status cost; admitting uncertainty is the entry fee, which enables faster decisions, course corrections, and reduces the loneliness executives feel.
First, erasing contributors from success narratives - leaving mentors, predecessors, or team members out of the story - which teaches that credit is zero-sum and kills culture. Second, pulling the ladder up by refusing to mentor the next generation, breaking the chain of platform-building and replicating an extraction economy mindset.
A two-part reflection: (1) identify one person whose shoulders you've stood on and acknowledge them directly via post, DM, or conversation, and (2) identify one person who needs your shoulders right now and commit to lifting them up to build their own platform, not to extend your legacy.
His father's constant defensive preparation (keeping all plates spinning, readying for worst-case scenarios) generated chronic stress and anxiety that shortened his life. Jeff learned that while preparation is essential, it must be balanced with forward-looking growth - like trees that survive by growing upward rather than only reinforcing roots - allowing leaders to delegate, lead ahead, and avoid burnout.
Redwoods only access ecosystem networks hundreds of feet in the air once they grow tall; they can't see those networks when saplings. The metaphor illustrates that inherited platforms (his father's shoulders) enable upward growth toward opportunities that weren't visible at the starting point - you must acknowledge the foundation but invest energy in building higher.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains some genuinely useful strategic observations - particularly around vulnerability as currency in executive peer groups, the false choice between deep preparation and forward vision, and the framework of 'shoulder checks' for mentorship. However, much of the content is personal narrative and emotional processing (the father's eulogy, the personal struggle with the podcast) rather than actionable business insight. The core strategic ideas - that leaders should acknowledge their inherited advantages and build platforms for others - are sound but not densely packed or novel enough to sustain a 15-minute episode without repetition.
In most boardrooms, admitting that you don't have the answer costs you status. In Vistage, that not knowing is the entry fee. It's that vulnerability is the currency of success at Vistage.
The trees that survive are the trees that grow upward.
The core insight - that leaders should stand on shoulders of those before them and lift others up - is a well-known concept. The metaphor of trees and redwoods is evocative but not original thinking. The Vistage group framework and the observation about vulnerability as currency in peer groups has some freshness, but the overall argument circles familiar territory: acknowledge mentors, don't hoard ladders, build legacy. The personal narrative adds some texture but doesn't introduce truly contrarian or first-principles thinking.
Standing on shoulders, in this case, standing on my dad's shoulders, I don't need to act humble or be shy about that fact.
Mentoring the next generation is not about extending your legacy.
This is a solo monologue episode by the host, Jeff Ayat. While he mentions mentors (Clark Kellogg, Jill Nichols) and a student (Eric), they are not present as guests and are only referenced in passing. The host himself appears to be a strategist and instructor, but there is no guest with operating scale or seniority on the call. The format is a personal reflection rather than an expert interview, which significantly limits guest caliber scoring.
I'm your host and fellow strategist, Jeff Ayat.
I took the advice of my coach, Jill Nichols, and as she has built a local Vistage chapter
The episode lacks concrete data, metrics, or named case studies demonstrating the principles in action. There are anecdotes (the father's work ethic, Eric the student, Clark Kellogg as mentor) but minimal specificity. No dollar figures, no measurable outcomes from Vistage groups, no concrete examples of companies that succeeded or failed based on these principles. The Vistage 'issue processing' activity is described procedurally but without evidence of results. The redwood and tree metaphors are illustrative but metaphorical rather than evidential.
He would say, always prepare to make your boss look good. He used this metaphor, this image. like the circus performer who would have the plates spinning on top of the wooden dowels
they ask, they give leaders a space where they don't have to be competitive. They can invest in each other and help lift each other up to create a greater whole.
This is a solo host monologue with no guest interaction, follow-ups, or productive disagreement. The host speaks at length without pushback or challenging questions. While the reflective structure is intentional (part of a three-part series on eulogy reflections), there is no dialectic, no Socratic method, and no demonstration of conversational skill. The format by design prevents the kind of sharp questioning and follow-up that would elevate this dimension. For a B2B learning context, the absence of a guest or challenge to claims significantly limits conversational craft.
I'm your host and fellow strategist, Jeff Ayat. This is your go-to spot for real talk with the masterminds of business strategy.
So let me ask you, who do you call when you're really in it?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
In this episode, I reflect on a foundational idea in leadership: we do not build alone. Every opportunity, perspective, and step forward is shaped by the people who came before us. Recognizing this is more than an act of gratitude, it’s a shift in how we understand responsibility. Because over time, that dynamic evolves. As we grow, we also become the foundation for others. Teams, clients, and communities begin to rely on our judgment, our decisions, and our direction. This episode explores what it means to move from being supported to becoming the support and how that awareness reshapes leadership, accountability, and long-term impact. In this episode, I explore: 00:38 - Recognizing the shoulders you stand on 02:12 - The transition from being supported to supporting others 03:45 - The weight of responsibility in leadership 05:20 - Reframing pressure as privilege 06:58 - A personal reflection on this shift 08:32 - How this perspective shapes leadership decisions 10:05 - Building with legacy in mind 11:28 - A closing reflection on responsibility and impact If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who has been part of your journey.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
(Transcribed by UniScribe (https://www.uniscribe.co). Upgrade to remove this message.)
Hello, welcome to the Big Strategy Podcast. I'm your host and fellow strategist, Jeff Ayat. This is your go-to spot for real talk with the masterminds of business strategy. It's about sharing stories, insights, and those little nuggets of wisdom to help you unlock big growth.
Let's turn the key and spring into action. Welcome back to this three-part series where I'm reflecting on the three qualities that I felt my dad left me as I shared them in his eulogy. The first was that generosity is the foundation. It's the starting point that makes everything else possible.
But generosity needs to extend to those who came before us, that's created the platform that we are able to build on. And that's why I believe that standing on shoulders, in this case, standing on my dad's shoulders, I don't need to act humble or be shy about that fact. I need to understand that it plays a role in strategy. And leaders who acknowledge that others who have come before them have given them a benefit are the ones who set that advantage.
My dad, he came from very little. What he did have, he earned. And he passed that on to me. And that is a work ethic and preparation as a way of life.
I remember growing up. He would always have me doing projects with him in the shop or around the house or fixing the car, saying, I'm just teaching you this so that someday you don't embarrass yourself in front of your father-in-law. And fast forward 30 years, I built my house alongside our father-in-law. So with that, thanks, Dad.
I didn't embarrass myself. But this same principle also applied to work. He would say, always prepare to make your boss look good. He used this metaphor, this image.
like the circus performer who would have the plates spinning on top of the wooden dowels, keeping all these plates in the air. What if, right? On one hand, yes, preparing for those extreme cases provided benefits. But on the other hand, that constant state of preparation brought stress and anxiety.
And in his case, I believe it shortened his life. But he was driven by the belief that hard work was the ticket out and that that would be my ticket out as well. So just pause there as I've shared my platform. I want you to think about the platform that you were given.
Was it a family business? Was it a financial head start? Or was it something intangible? A set of values or beliefs that you could do more than where you came from.
This was a nuance that I had to learn. This idea, this constant preparation mindset can sap the energy that we need for growth. When you're always getting ready, you can miss the moment to lead, to look ahead, and to advocate for yourself. I think about like a tree, right?
On one hand, if it doesn't feel it's sturdy or needs more nutrients, it invests its energy down to grow deeper roots. On the other hand, it can build the roots wider to, again, capture more resources or to help steady itself. Be prepared. for that what-if moment.
But the trees that survive are the trees that grow upward. And we see this here in California. You study the giant redwoods. They build ecosystems in the canopies.
And when they're a small sapling, they don't know that those networks exist hundreds of feet in the air. But as these redwoods grow to 100, 200 feet tall, those connections exist. And I've kind of taken that as a metaphor and really speaks to what was kind of my dad's blind spot, right? And sometimes mine.
And that is that managing up and looking ahead requires a different muscle, but not just a different muscle, but a different belief system than just simply showing up prepared. Both matter. You absolutely have to be prepared. Nothing substitutes preparation.
But his passing reminded me, I don't need to invest the same energy he did in those activities. His shoulders gave me the foundation, and the rest is my job. It's my duty to build higher. How does this connect back to strategy?
Well, the best leaders know that they have inherited and what they have to build for themselves. It's okay to admit that those that came before you gave you a head start, gave you some competitive advantage that allows you to not rebuild what they've built. but instead to go forward. And that self-awareness of what you're given, the resources that you have, and how you can leverage them to getting ahead, that self-awareness separates operators from visionaries.
Knowing this, I took the advice of my coach, Jill Nichols, and as she has built a local Vistage chapter, I've begun attending those meetings and leveraging the networks that she brings together, networks of CEOs and other business leaders, and create a private, intimate space where they can share real challenges. And what's very unique about these spaces is what the rooms ask leaders to do. They ask, they give leaders a space where they don't have to be competitive. They can invest in each other and help lift each other up to create a greater whole.
And it's that lifting that creates the truly special group of leaders that this group and most groups provide. And what's remarkable, though, in this, in one of the activities is called issue processing, where each CEO brings one or more challenges that they're facing in their business. And the group dedicates 15, 20, sometimes 30 minutes to address these challenges. Now, there's a strict confidentiality around this, but I can share about the process and that the advice that exchange creates a culture in the room, that letting down of your guard and that idea of generosity being shared.
Think about your C-suite. Is it a room where generosity is allowed to exist? Are you standing on each other's shoulders? Or is each competing to get to the top of the pyramid?
Do you have a team of rivals? Or is everyone marching in the same direction? In most boardrooms, admitting that you don't have the answer costs you status. In Vistage, that not knowing is the entry fee.
It's that vulnerability is the currency of success at Vistage. And I encourage you to think about your boardrooms. And can you bring more vulnerability into those spaces? One way that Vistage and my Vistage group has really helped me is that after my dad's passing, as you know, I stepped away from the microphone here at the podcast.
And I started to doubt whether this podcast had value. I brought that vulnerability into the Vistage room. I brought it up as my issue for processing that month. And I was only met with encouragement.
Now, there were other things beyond my dad's passing that contributed to this. They were all inside of me. was nothing my audience said. It was no signal I had received from the market.
It was my own self-doubt and the places that that came from. But the feedback and encouragement that I got from that group, that's what gave me the courage not only to come back, but to move from the interviewing side of the mic to the speaking side of the mic. And this is what happens when leaders stop performing and start sharing. They get better decisions, faster course corrections, and reduce that feeling of loneliness and isolation at the top.
My dad didn't have a Vistage group. In fact, in his drives, sometimes two, three hours a day, he ran up massive cell phone bills reaching out to people one at a time. A Vistage group would have been a cheaper, cleaner opportunity to get together and share. But the real point is, is that he knew he needed shoulders.
He was building a platform for others, but at the same time was constantly redesigning and rebuilding and reinforcing. the platform that he was standing on. And that was terribly stressful, terribly anxiety-ridden. And as I said, I know that that had adverse impacts on his health.
So let me ask you, who do you call when you're really in it? Maybe you have a coach. Maybe it's someone you worked with at a previous company. Maybe it's a mentor from outside of your industry, but has great insight into people.
If you don't have that room, a Vistage group, a faith community, any space where you can be fully vulnerable, That is a strategic gap that I suggest you close. In all this positive talk about standing on the shoulders of others, I have seen two key mistakes. The first, being taken credit for what others build. And the other is leaders who pull the ladder up behind them and don't mentor the next generation.
On the idea of credit, how many leaders tell the success story and leave out those who made it possible? Maybe not in a company-wide keynote when you can't address everyone on the product team, etc. But in a memo or a small group presentation or an internal debrief, remember the mentor who opened the door, who heard their mentee being selfish, or the team member who caught the mistake and began to doubt their value in the organization. knowing that they feel that icky used feeling.
When you erase the shoulders that you have stood on, you teach everyone around you that credit is zero sum and that kills culture. Contrast this with a culture of vulnerability that I shared when I talked about the Vistage Group. Second, pulling up the ladder. Leaders who benefited most from mentorship and never paid it forward, they broke the chain.
like the old chain letters we used to get in the mail when we were kids, right? We didn't want to send it to 10 friends or else. But in all seriousness, those leaders, and you know this type of person, when a mentor spends time with them, they view it as an investment in themselves, as a personal asset, not a responsibility that they need or get to pass on. Connect back to the extraction economy example that I used in episode one.
burning natural gas, oil, coal, something that was generated over millions of years of process for a second of power today and all at the expense of future generations. This is the same mindset, that zero-sum mindset, this idea of what is mine versus what gets passed on. And this is why I love teaching. In fact, just yesterday, I got a note from one of my students, Eric, who's...
working at a consulting company in AI. And he says that he uses design thinking every day. And he says, every time I use it, I think of what you taught me in class. And if there's something better than that, I genuinely don't know what it is.
But that's the hardest version, and is this. Mentoring the next generation is not about extending your legacy. My daughter's success is not a reflection of me. Maybe you are the CEO, or your CEO is someone who, is looking at their successor and saying, I don't see anyone in this company who will run it the same way that I do, so I can't leave.
Or it's a privately held or family business where that founder has taken the company from nothing, built it from nothing into what it is today, and are more fearful of the company falling to its previous level than they are about the possibility of it growing, that they hold on even when they know passing the torch is the better answer. They're not building a platform, and that's why their companies will fail, not because of mistakes made by the next generation. So I'd like to name this framework.
I'm going to call it the shoulder check. Ask yourself two questions, one for each shoulder. Who do you need to acknowledge today? That one person.
Maybe it was a mentor, a predecessor, a team member. Post it. Send them a DM. Say it out loud.
Let them know. that they're someone whose shoulders you've stood on to get to where you are today. And the second is ask yourself, who needs your shoulders right now in return? Not someone who will give you a personal return.
One person you can lift up, not to extend your legacy, but to give them a platform to build off of and build something that is their own. For me, I acknowledge Clark Kellogg as my mentor. I acknowledge Jill Nichols as a mentor to these two people, among many others, whom I've stood on and have helped me professionally. And who needs a shoulder right now?
What's my students at campus? They're not a globally recognized institution, but these are students with as much passion as anyone I've seen at Berkeley. They just haven't had the same shoulders to stand on. And if I can build that platform or help provide them some semblance of a platform.
that they can build their professional life going forward, then I am passing it forward. But to tie this back to my dad, he gave me work ethic and preparation from nothing. No money, no connections, just values and hard work. That's a platform.
The question is what I build on it and whether I'm building something for the next person to stand on. So looking ahead, generosity and now standing on shoulders, that's how legacy works. And next time, as we close this series, we're going to talk about what it means to leave a legacy. In the meantime, please subscribe to the podcast, share it with someone who you think will benefit, and I'll see you in two weeks.
(Transcribed by UniScribe (https://www.uniscribe.co). Upgrade to remove this message.)
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