Predictable Revenue Starts With Better Sales Technology and AI Workflows

If you diagnose what's happening in the market, there's a few data points that are really alarming. The first is that the average tenure of a CRO in technology firms is 18 months to two years. The second data point said that up to 70% of an AE's time is spent on admin tasks. And one of the more astonishing data points showed that 87% of AES were missing their number. And so if you throw all of those three things together, it doesn't really matter which constituent you are in that sales hierarchy. The reality is you're suffering. So something's not working. And I think technology has a role to play in that. You're listening to the B2B revenue executive experience, a podcast dedicated to helping executives train their sales and marketing teams to optimize growth. Whether you're looking for techniques and strategies or tools and resources, you've come to the right place. Let's accelerate your growth in 3, 2, 1. Hello, everyone and welcome to the B2B Revenue Executive Experience. I'm your host, Corey, and today I'm talking with Steve Harding. He is the SVP International for EMEA and APAC at Salesloft, where he leads revenue ops and predictable revenue systems across global markets. Now, Steve has built his career at the intersection of SaaS, sales transformation and enterprise growth, helping organizations modernize how they operate in scale. Prior to sales off, Steve held multiple senior leadership roles at leading companies like ServiceNow and Gelato. And across his career, he has consistently focused on building and scaling high performing revenue organizations. Steve, welcome to the show. Hey, Corey, it's wonderful to meet you. Yeah, it's wonderful to meet you as well. I'm excited to get into it. I know the outbound is a hot topic these days. I mean, it's a perpetual challenge for everyone, right? Keeping the revenue funnel full. So before we get into all that good stuff, I want to start with you and your journey. So you've held senior leadership roles across SaaS Telecom, working with global teams for years. So what originally drew you to this world? Crikey, I have to go a long way back to answer that question, Corey. I started my career, funnily enough, as a chartered accountant. Not many people know that. I tried to keep it a secret for obvious reasons, but yeah, I spent the first seven years working in the financial services industry training to be an accountant. I actually qualified. And then in 1995, I had a leader come to me and say, you're a really good accountant, but you're not a stereotypical accountant. Would you like to do something else? And I said, it really depends on what that something else is. And that person enticed me into sales and I've really not looked back ever since. And that career has taken me, as you mentioned, across both telecoms, but also technology, with the bulk of that time spent in technology companies. And I guess the other thing that makes me a slightly unusual person is that I've done quite a good mix of startups, scale ups and scaled organizations. And so I guess I come at the conundrum of sales and finance from multiple perspectives. And I think that served me well in my career. Yeah, and I can imagine it would have. And it's funny because our CEO has an extremely similar story. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. She got out a finance degree and was working at Gartner at the time and I think in the accounting department and then started to, you know, meet the salespeople, learning the sales world a little bit and very quickly started a campaign with her boss's boss which was, hey, I'm your next sales rep. And you know, a few months down the line came true. So that's funny. It's really interesting. I often describe my finance background almost as a superpower to be so kind of financially numerous and you know, with the kind of commercial and business acumen that comes with that domain, it's been really a real powerful asset in selling because ultimately people are buying business outcomes that are instantiated in business cases. And if you can get to that quickly, then as I say, it's a superpower. Serve me well. Yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, that's a big foundation of our methodology and our approach. Right. And if you're not solving a problem we're solving, which is ultimately measured in financial terms and business outcomes, you don't really have a deal. So firm agreement there. Okay, well, let's get into a little bit more about what you're seeing in outbound these days. Sort of your expertise, as you said, built over the years, rather from all the way from startups to already scaled large organizations. So you have made the distinction in the past between the science of selling and the art of selling. Can you unpack that a little bit for us? Yeah, I mean, I've also used the term kind of cockpit sellers. I don't know if you ever heard that term before, but people that are primarily doing their work from behind screenshots, and I think good or bad, very many sellers are now working from behind a screen for large percentages of their day. And I think for the Most part, that's being to the disadvantage of the art of selling, because it detracts from the kind of personal aspects of relationship building and relationship selling. And I don't think it's just technology that's driven that shift. I think it's actually multifaceted. I think it's partly technology, I think it's partly the pandemic. I think it's partly globalization and the need for remote working. I think it's partly the cost of central city location, office buildings. And there's a whole myriad of reasons why cockpit selling is kind of gathered steam. But at the same time, I do think, as I say, it's detracted from the real spirit of selling, which is kind of being present and managing relationships. Relationships. And I also think that one of my colleagues, I can't steal this analogy as my own, but one of my colleagues talks about the metaphor of a train going through a valley. Bear with me whilst I explain this. But essentially what he's saying is that if you're the SVP or the CRO of an organization, your vantage point basically can see that train meandering through the valley, every turn and every corner, and hopefully it doesn't come off the rails and everything's good and the passengers enjoy the journey. If you're the driver, then your perspective completely changes and you're staring down the track, you're still on the same train, it's still the same journey, but your perspective is very different. And then if you're the yay, you're looking out the window and everything is whizzing past. And I thought that was a really good metaphor because they're all looking at the same thing, but they're seeing something very, very different. And I think one of the challenges at the technology level is that for the most part, over the last 20 years, it's really only served that one perspective, and it doesn't work for everybody. So that's one problem. And I think the second problem is that the tools have become almost so fragmented that we have become beholden to those technologies to put data in. It's almost like the AES have become in service of the technology, rather than the technology being in service of the AES. And so I think these three things are all kind of serving to actually massively increase the workload of AES, and not necessarily all to their advantage, and certainly not all to the advantage of customers. And then I think there is one more thing that's happening in parallel to that, which is that the complexion of buying is completely changed, and often this is completely overlooked. The way that you used to buy is very different to the way you buy now because you've got almost complete information. And actually your inclination to call a seller to help you is actually pretty low because you'd much rather self serve before you get in touch with a seller. And so the conditions with which sellers sell, but also the requirements of the seller have materially changed over the last 25 years. But the technology that we employ to help them is not necessarily moved with them. And so I think that throw all of that into the melting pot and we're having to kind of change on the fly and be very dynamic to the changing circumstances. Absolutely. And I want to clarify this point because I think it's an important one. So when you say that the sales tech has historically only served one perspective, I assume you're talking about the SVP level, maybe the, the frontline manager leading the train. Is that correct? Well, sadly, I don't think it served the person that should get the most value from it, which is the ae. Right. The AE is the person that's on the ground, you know, wrestling with the market and wrestling with the customers to try and get the outcomes that are good for both the customer and for the business. But, you know, traditional CRM systems I think have. You know, my view is that AES are often hit over the head twice with that as a tool. The first time is to put data in and the second time is to forecast out. And both of it is really an admin overhead rather than a technology that's actually in service of their work. Yep, I 100% agree. And I think it's gotten. I'd say it's gotten worse over the last five years in particular. And at the same time, within the last 18 months, I feel that we're finally seeing a shift. Now, that doesn't mean that everyone's doing it. I think there is. Even with AI, there's a little bit of people or attitudes that are still entrenched in that old way of thinking. Oh, we'll just have more data. We'll have more and more and more. However, I think the tools are finally flipping where they can potentially serve the AE instead of the AE serving them. Would you agree? So, first of all, if you diagnose what's happening in the market, there's a few data points that are really alarming. The first is that the average tenure of a CRO in technology firms is 18 months to two years. Right. So that suggests that there's A high level of impatience within businesses for the right reasons. The second data point that I saw actually came out of Salesforce's State of Sales sixth edition. And I think it was repeated in the seventh edition that said that up to 70% of an A's time is spent on admin tasks. And I think Forrester came up with a, a similar but different metric, which was that Monday and Tuesday are spent on admin and Wednesday, Thursday, Friday are spent on everything else. So their number was 40%, but frankly, whether it's 40% or 70%, like, that's a big admin overhead. And then I think one of the more astonishing data points that I saw, which actually came from one of the vendors that manages compensation. So they got really good insight into the success that AES are having in the field. And their data showed that 87% of AES were missing their number. And so if you throw all of those three things together, it doesn't really matter which constituent you are in that sales hierarchy. The reality is you're suffering and something's not working. And I think technology has a role to play in that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I've even seen stats as low as 17% time actually selling, you know, face to face, sort of what we're doing now in meetings. And yeah, I think the data is hard to ignore. Right. You could potentially argue that, oh, maybe this is just correlation. Right. There's no causality here. I don't believe that. I think when you're staring down the numbers of, hey, you know, 70% of time spent on admin, as you're saying, right. In 87% of people listening their number. Okay, well, there could be something to that. Right, right. You mentioned earlier the just colossal amounts of data, and I think that's true. Certainly in the 25 years that I've been in sales, just the sheer amount of data that you have at your disposal, but it's really not data that is the holy grail, it's really the insight. How do you get insight from that data and how do you draw the context from that data? And I think that's the bit that is particularly difficult, especially when you add into the fact that you want that data to be served up in the moment that you need it real time? You know, you put all of that together and actually we're swamped with data, but not swamped with the right data at the right time, with the right context, delivering the right message and the right insight. Yeah, absolutely. I think it hits at every level of the organization as we were talking about before, right from the A in the window to the zoom out overhead SVP view. You know, I was actually talking to a leader at a VC firm the other day and what he was telling me was, you know, he was running through after working with, you know, hundreds of companies in the SaaS space. I mean, his sweet spot was 10 to 100 million is kind of what you're doing there. And he was telling me the four levers that he would pull first with AI and beyond that, even the first play that he would run. And so I'm thinking, you know, well, is it about data quality? Is it not about data quality? And he made a similar point. He was like, the data's there, especially if you're a tech company, right? I mean, you might have other gaps and you know, legacy companies or maybe people that are only got a CRM up and running a couple years ago. But for most tech companies, the data is there. And what he was saying is actually his number one play was running deal reviews. Yeah, And I was like, you know, that makes a whole lot of sense because I think it goes back to what you're saying, Steve, like what data do we actually need? How do we make it actionable at the right time and is it actually going to make an impact? Right. Not only is data already there, but incremental data is incredibly easy to access. You know, most of the modern tools as included, you know, we have CI or customer interactions wired into the platform, which means every conversation can be recorded and interpreted, transcribed, understood, summarized, distilled, choose your adjective, we can get to the data and then all of that can be repopulated back into the CRM system so that it can be mined for the future with AI. And so there is no shortage of data. To your point though, the AI layer is really important because that can be the accelerant in terms of understanding that data and really making sense of it. We've even had customers that are using all of the CI captured information to draw out product feature requirements from customers. And so when we start to see themes, because AI can search for it much more readily than the human eye can or the human ear can. And so those themes are then summarized and delivered back into the product team so that they can help prioritize the developments that can impact customers the fastest. So that's pretty cool. Wow. Yeah, that's a tremendous example. So Steve, I would be remiss not to ask you what is working in outbound nowadays as coming from Salesloft, right? Full disclosure, I don't want to turn this into an ad, but we are customers ourselves, big fans of the product. So I'm curious, at a high level in talking, talking to all the people that you talk to, customers, everyone else in the ecosystem, what is working right now? Yeah, I mean, I mean, of course, Salesloft now, since the merger with Clari, is so much more than just outbound. But you know, outbound is obviously a critical component to sales development and opportunity creation. I think one of the things that again, AI is helping with is the ability to more easily spot patterns and then use those patterns to help with targeting for your outbound. So you become much more nuanced and much more deliberate around the organizations, not just at the ICP level, but perhaps 2, 3, 4, 5 clicks down. So that's the first thing. We can be much more precise around where we go and why and when based on the macro and microeconomic factors. I think the next thing is that in preparation for your outreach, you can be much more rehearsed and researched in terms of what you should say and what you might say. Because again, AI can be used for all of that account research, but it doesn't just take the external information that's available. It adds all of the, the real time context that you've gathered from recent interactions with that particular industry or market or customer. And then the final thing is that it can be an accelerant from a physical outreach perspective because it can help you draft your outreach to a very, very high quality. Certainly we would always advocate that, depending on the scenario. Actually, we always advocate that there is some degree of human in the loop, some level of oversight to make sure that you don't, you don't just use AI to become the next spam factory. And so I think, you know, human in the loop is important. You know, that said, there are some use cases where humans might not necessarily be involved. I was talking to a customer recently, funnily enough, who were talking about the fact that AES are very often the last level of help when there's delinquent debt. And so they were talking about an accounts receivable use case where a signal could be produced by the accounts receivable system and then funneled to the right ae. And then the AE based on that information then does the outreach, because they're often connected with the decision maker that has the power to pay the debt. So you would think that on the face of it, that's not a traditional kind of sales outreach scenario, except it is a moment for Communication, it might be the thing that gets the bill paid. It might be a moment to engage with a leader who didn't know that the debt was delinquent. And it then also might be a moment to then follow up with a conversation about, do you know what we do now? And by the way, do you know how we did that? Do you know how we followed up on that debt in real time? And so I think this signal to action outreach is a really, really powerful addition. But so that it's not more noise, we just need to make sure that the right signal is being served up at the right time and then powered up by AI and then delivered to the right. To the right Persona at the right moment so that it can be capitalized on. Yeah, and that's a fascinating example. I hadn't heard that one. Right. That's a good one. Well, we've even seen, you know, we already have signals that are emanating from renewal systems. Right? So the renewal system provides an alert to say that the renewal is due. Often in sales teams, you'll get into that conversation too late. So serving that signal up early enough just means that you can get ahead of that conversation. But actually, within that renewal, if you're a manufacturer, you might have 50 assets, and the renewal is one conversation, but the asset end of life is another conversation. And so if your signals are wired into your asset database and your asset database is telling you that a product is going end of life, then that becomes the moment when you could have a conversation around, okay, do you need extended warranty? Do you need extended maintenance? Do you need a better support package, or do you actually need a replacement asset? All of those are sales opportunities, especially for the transactional seller. Yeah, that's another good use case. And I want to press on that point about Outbound a little bit because Steve would. What you described sounded like the ideal scenario, right? What everyone should be doing, right? How to get the right data. It's no longer at the Persona level. It's actually personalized. We can actually do what we've been speaking about for years, right? Drill down five clicks, do it at scale, have the right message at the right time. Right. Draft it, automate it to a degree. Right. So we can scale. We can have efficiency and effectiveness at the same time. However, I think sometimes in the real world, we've seen history repeat itself. You know, we get the cell phone, we get sms. Right. And marketers are the worst. As a marketing leader, I'll admit, right. We ruin the technology before sales does. Right. But we go overboard, we chase volume before we chase effectiveness. Right. And we end up in a similar loop cycle. I'm curious, from your point of view, do you still see a lot of teams pressing on the volume because they can, or do you think a lot of people have already kind of learned that lesson that more noise is not going to get them the outcomes they want? I think the answer is mixed. I think, and I don't want to be too disparaging of the general sort of customer base, but I don't think all customers have fully inhaled the real power of what orchestration together with AI can actually deliver. I think the market is where it is being done. I think it's definitely oriented around what I call the world of CRM already. So, for example, a signal is instantiated by a website, or a signal is instantiated by a contact that's changed company, or a signal is instantiated by a renewal database. But actually there are so many signals that can originate from the operational side of your business that if only you could give them to the seller in the appropriate moment, then you could massively power up your sales operation. And I often talk about this as the, you know, tethering the demand side of your business to the supply side of your business at scale. So I think that's one thing I would say, I think the other thing is that I do think, again, to give customers credit, I do think that some of this powering up with AI is being done, But I think for the most part, or in many cases, not for the most part, in many cases, it's being done on the edge in the LLM of choice. And the problem with that is that you have to spoon feed the LLM the information that you want to give it in order to get the results out. And so it's almost like you're constantly fueling the fire in order to feed it the context. Whereas if you actually wire the two things together, when you make the LLM intrinsically wired to your orchestration platform, to use our terminologies, then actually you get the best of both worlds because you get the insight and the context from the CRM system and the orchestration tool, but you get the power up of the LLM capability again without getting too much into a pitch. But we've just launched mcp, which is the protocol for conjoining those two things. Exactly that. For that reason, so that we can get the best of both worlds. And I agree that's absolutely the way to do it right now. And I think there's going to always be a temptation to chase volume. But from the leaders I've spoken to over, really, just the last, I want to say, five or six months, the theme when it comes to AI that has emerged has been much more similar to what you're talking about, Steve, Like AI as an operating system, almost. Yeah. Right. We have to move away from, as you said, feeding the fire of the LLM of your choice. Right. Starting from scratch almost each time. Right. And getting trapped in those workflows because I think then we remove the great promise of AI, which is. Which is less admin work. We're creating admin work of a different kind if we do that. Yeah. And also, like, when you think about scaled sales operations, like if you're. If you're a Salesforce that's got 7,000 sellers in it. Right. You want a degree of operational rigor and cohesion and you want similarity in the way that your operators operate. Right. Because you wouldn't be able to manage your business otherwise. And so I think this kind of harmonizing of the large language model capability, together with the CRM platforms and the orchestration platforms actually serves the best of those worlds. Right. Because you get the flexibility and the power of LLM AI, but you also get the control and the guardrails and the cohesion and the compliance and the security of your traditional system. So I think. I'm not Jim Cramer, I'm not a predictor of the future, but I think my bet is on those two worlds coming together with a high level of cohesion. Yeah, I think you're right. I think we're seeing that piece by piece, sort of starting as it is right now. So I want to go back and I want to. I love this train metaphor. So I'm going to continually beat it to death on this podcast, I think. But going back to looking out the window, that perspective, right, of the AE, everything's just whizzing by you at 100, 120 miles an hour. Right. So when are we actually going to get to that point where the technology, the systems are integrated enough? Not only integrated. Right. But they're orchestrated. Right. Talking to each other. Right. Giving us what we need at the exact right time so that we can get, I don't know, more of a degree of freedom and sort of return to that relationship side of selling and get away from that. That sort of cockpit selling you mentioned earlier. Yeah, it's a good point. I wish I'd used my own metaphor rather than my colleague's metaphor, because then I could have taken Royalties, but with a parallel. I often use the analogy of air traffic control and that the AI is literally like an aircraft trying to land in the airport. And every aircraft is important because it's got cargo and passengers on it, but they're all trying to land at the same time, which means everything becomes important to the point where actually nothing's important. And so the extension of my metaphor is that in order to do that well, you need an air traffic control system. And so I think actually those two metaphors do sit quite nicely. One is about perspective and the other one is about cockpit control. And I think the modern revenue systems, like the systems that we produce, they offer both of those benefits because they provide the perspective view served up in the way that the particular user wants to consume it. But at the same time we provide that cockpit view, which means we're serving up the appropriate work in the moment that that work needs to get. And of course, AI can also supercharge that. Right. Because even in the world of technology and the abundance of data, you could still arrive to your desk and find that you've got 150 things that need to get done. But AI can help you work out which 10 need to get done first. And then once that's determined, you can then use AI again to accelerate the output of that work. To go back to your kind of outbound question earlier on, So I think, you know, the, the orchestration market is still relatively nascent, but I think given the, the, the, just the, the, the sheer number of tools that have been perpetuated into the market, it's pretty evident that there needs to be something that pulls it together into a, a level of orchestration. I think the real power, as I've already alluded to, is when you do that not just for marketing based signals or sales based signals, but you do it for operational signals too. That's the holy grail. I don't think we're quite there yet, but we could be pretty quick. Yep, yep, I agree. I mean that that's the third lever that's going to change a lot of things. Yeah. And so when we look at how this is kind of shaking out, right. And how it's affecting the day to day capabilities of teams, I'm tempted to look at it from a split perspective, I guess, and I want to get your take on this, Steve, because I'm, I'm seeing predictions for the next couple years take two divergent paths here. On one side, you know, we've got some thought leaders saying that, hey, sales really is going to change right now, right? We're, we're in this, we're in this growing period, you know, we really can't break out of our old mindset and that's okay. But moving forward, maybe two years down the road, there's going to be, you know, an influx of roles where you're not necessarily carrying a quota, but you're managing a series of systems that might carry a quota. And maybe that's more true for lower level transactional sales. Right? One, one call, two call, closes, that kind of thing, maybe that'll transition there. And then I think the side that I'm sensing you and I are both on, and I don't think that these are mutually exclusive by any means, but is that with all this help you are going to return to more relationship based selling, at least for complex consultative sales? So I guess two questions on that front. One, do you see both of those paths as true and coexisting together and how do you think they might intermingle or, you know, continue to diverge? It's a fascinating question and you've triggered a thought in me and this is somewhat off topic, but I remember meeting in AE who was talking about mentorship and she was saying that her approach to mentorship was to have a mentorship boardroom. And I thought it was a fascinating idea because essentially what she was saying is that if there's somebody in her network that's brilliant at keynote speaking, then they become her keynoting mentor. If there's somebody else that's fantastic at negotiation, then they become her negotiation mentor. And so it was almost like snacking on mentors rather than having one sort of prolonged relationship. I thought it was a fascinating idea. And as you were talking about that, you triggered this idea of the seller having a bunch of agents around them. And those agents are digital in nature. And I can almost see myself doing it now together with AI. I'm lucky because of the business that I work and I've got many of these tools at my disposal, you know, out of the box, ready to go. But even, even, yeah, I augment that with, with other agents that I've built that help me do certain things within my, you know, my day job, you know, and I'm an agent for this and an agent for that and an agent for this and they just go off and do work for me. And so I can definitely see that that, that is going to change the way that people work. Will it change the roles that we have? I think we're already seeing that. I Mean, we've just done a partnership with an organization called OneMind and OneMind have got Avatar based, informed inbound agents, for want of a better term. And those agents are trained on your content and there's low latency and you can literally have a conversation with them. And because they're trained on your content, they know the answer and, and they can go away and find the answer. And in a very conversational way they can impart that answer. And if it's detailed, they can point you to a document, you know, that is inbound. That's an inbound STR paradigm right there, all being delivered through agentic or AI. And I think that, you know, many of those, let's call them more routine jobs are going to get eaten away by AI because it's going to be super, super easy to, to automate it, which is why I often use the phrase, and it is a little bit tongue in cheek about like the return to the 1950s seller. And of course we know we're not going to return to that. But if you think about what the 1950s seller was all about, you know, they turned up with really, really deep customer understanding together with genuine time in the field, building relationships and being face to face with absolute trust through presence and expertise and where relationships are their first instinct. And I think that actually our customers are craving that because I don't know if you've read the book the Jolt Effect, but it talks about the difference between fear of messing up and the fear of missing out. Actually what our customers care about is the fear of messing up. They want to buy software and they want to buy, or any product and they want to buy it with the confidence that when it gets deployed, it's going to deliver the value that it's been promised. And that is more of a role of ushering than it is a role of selling. And so I think the technology is going to help us get to that point where we're being truly helpful to the customers that we serve. What's your view? No, I'm with you right there. I think that the fear of messing up, for better or for worse, it's a primary motivation, right? It really is. I think that the role of a seller in a complex consultative sale, a big part of that role is to build buyer confidence. And when we talk about building buyer confidence, what we really mean, I think buyer confidence is a more positive term. Right. But you know, helping them have the confidence that they're making a decision that's not going to compromise their careers, not going to compromise their team. Right, so it goes back to what you're saying. Absolutely. And I think actually we talked about the process of buying changing. I think one of the reasons that we've seen some sales cycles become elongated is because actually part of that kind of confidence making has been achieved by creating buying committees. And so now you're not selling to one person that can make the decision. You're actually selling to 10 people, each coming to the position with their own prejudices and their own preferences and their own. They're either a protagonist or an antagonist out of the gate. And it's your job to convince them that you're right and they're wrong, or at least that we can find a happy path forward together. But the only true measure of success is actually not when the ink is dry on the contract. It's know a year later when everybody's enjoying the software and the adoption is high and they're getting the value that was promised. Yep, absolutely. Where it never ends at contract signature, it ends at value realization. Or that's when the relationship really begins, rather. All right, Steve, as we move toward the end of the podcast, there are two questions that we ask every guest. And the first we already touched on quite a bit, but I'm going to press you for just one more bit of advice here. So we're recording this in April of 2026. Let's fast forward five years down the road, 2031. What's a big shift that you see coming for B2B? Sales leadership for sales, tech space in general that not a lot of people are talking about at this moment? Yeah, that's a good question. I think there's a lot of talk about jobs being replaced through AI. I'm not necessarily sure that that is the outcome, because every other genre of technology has actually resulted in us doing more, not with us doing less. And actually it hasn't actually reduced the workforce. So I think as you extrapolate forward five years, the roles might be different, but because we've got more precision and because we can interpret more data, we can operate at higher scale. And if you have higher scale, then you're going to need more people anyway, probably in order to do all of the things that we just described around making sure that they're serviced. I'm an optimist about the technology, funnily enough. Going back to earlier in my career. I was selling enterprise mobile applications before the iPhone existed. And I remember going into very skeptical rooms with people that said, why would I ever conduct my daily work on A screen that size, they would literally look at me like I was insane. And I think there are some parallels. You think about how mobile has actually played out and the productivity gains that have been enjoyed on the back of that, but also think about the magnitude of jobs that have been created on the back of that, that technology. And so I'm an optimist. I think that AI is going to drive jobs, I think it's going to drive different jobs. But I think moreover, we're going to get more precision and more scale. That's a fantastic example. Well said. Okay, final question and you've already teed it up for me a little bit. So looking back early in your own career, going back five, 10, maybe even 15 years in the past, what is one piece of advice you'd give your younger self? And why? Oh, crikey, that's what would I give to my get into sales earlier and don't do the accountancy degree. That's tongue in cheek. That's probably not true. As I said, I got a great deal of value from the accountancy qualification. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what I would change. I've been to 55 countries selling software. I've literally been around the world three times and it's been been a wonderful career for a working class lad that came from a council estate in the uk and so I wouldn't change much. It's been a lot of fun and I'm really grateful for the people that have helped me get the experience that I've had over the last too many years to mention, hands down, one of the best answers I've ever had to that question. Okay, good man. Steve, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. If people want to learn more about you, more about Salesloft, where should they go? Oh, so they should go to. Because we've recently merged, we should go to www.clarry.com or to www.salesloft.com. there will be a time in the not too distant future where it will be only one address. I look forward to that day. I know our customers too, but certainly. Or look me up on LinkedIn. You can find me anywhere and I'll be more than happy to respond. All right, sounds good. Well, thanks again. Take care. Thanks, Corey. Appreciate it. You've been listening to the B2B Revenue Executive experience to ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show on itunes or your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.