How to Shape the Future of Sustainable Events ft. Michael Beckerman from CREtech

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the Where People Meet podcast, the event technology podcast for the worldwide meetings and events industry. I'm your host, Mitch Molinski, head of sales here at Feedloop in beautiful Toronto. And, and today I'm joined by Michael Beckerman, a leader in the commercial real estate, technology and sustainability sectors. Michael entered the sectors in 2012 after a 25 year career in commercial real estate media relations in which he started and built Beckerman Public Relations BPR into one of the largest firms in the country before eventually selling the agency. Michael now serves as CEO of, uh, Cretek, the largest conference company devoted to technology and sustainability in the built world. Michael, thanks for joining us today. I've really been excited for this conversation to, uh, get things started. Want to tell the audience where you're calling in from?

Speaker A: Uh, well, first of all, Mitch, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm a big fan. I love the, the, the niche in the marketplace that you're serving. It's one that honestly I'm um, sort of the new kid on the block too. So I learned a lot from you, my friend. And uh, you're putting out some great content and uh, you know, hopefully, uh, I could share a few things that we've, we've learned probably a lot of the mistakes that I continue to make which are not as loopy. They, um, so I'm thrilled to be here. I'm calling from beautiful, uh, Garden State. Most people don't know that New Jersey is actually called the Garden State. It is not the opening scene in the Sopranos. That is not. Well, that's part of what New Jersey looks like and it's good. No shame is also a big part of the state that's very green. Uh, and that's where I live, in a little town called Pepac. Gladstone. Tiny, tiny little town.

Speaker B: Beautiful. Well, Michael, really appreciate the kind words. I'm, I'm very excited for the conversation today. As you mentioned, you've had a, uh, a number of different experiences leading to where you are today and I'm looking forward to unpacking all of that. And really what got me so excited about you bring. What about bringing you on board for the podcast is that you are an entrepreneur at heart. Uh, you started Beckerman Public Relations and then you moved on to Kretech. I know you didn't found Kretech, but you're now in the CEO role, so I'd love to dive into the early stages. You founding Beckerman Public Relations, what was that founding journey like? What Were some of the successes, what were some of the failures? And how did it lead to where you are today?

Speaker A: Thanks Mitch. Well, I've always been an entrepreneur. I've never worked for anybody. I've never done a resume, I've never gone on a job interview. I failed college student. Um, so there's a lot of, as I said, failures in my background, but they're mine and I own them. And uh, I don't regret any of them. So that's sort of the founders the entrepreneur journey. Whether you're a solo practitioner in any kind of business or you've built something, something to scale, the journey is the same, which is for me, you know, I, I came from a pretty humble background and uh, needed to make money and earn a living, uh, without a degree and uh, kind of stumbled my way into media relations when I was a very young man, my early 20s. Didn't know anything about it, but I was always fascinated and uh, uh, just media was something I always uh, gravitated towards. I just loved content, I just love storytelling. I loved, I loved traditional at that time, news and media before it became such a, um, polarized industry. But it was something I was always fascinated by. So I had a couple odd jobs and I started uh, exploring uh, what PR means public relations. And I think I got a copy of a press release from a library or something like that and set out on my journey. And um, you know, it's just again continuing to explore and see what opportunities opened up for me. I discovered the commercial real estate industry and I fell in love with it. Mitch. So what I decided to do over time was to focus on building a media relations public relations shop that just focused on one industry and that was commercial real estate. Commercial real estate defined by, or the built environment defined by office buildings, apartment buildings, big warehouses and logistics. Non consumer related, non housing. So it was everything else in the built environment. So I did that for a very, very, very long time. I was all, I'm always somebody also that gravitates towards the blank canvas. So I'm not afraid of going where nobody's already there. Kind of excites me in a weird, crazy way. But uh, so I'd been doing that for a very long time. Mitch and we got to scale and then I just stopped enjoying it. I didn't really enjoy the work anymore. The industry was changing a lot. Media, you know, went mostly online and it just became uh, you know, in many cases less relevant than it was when I got started, less impactful, uh, because I was used to dealing with like traditional journalists. And uh, when that kind of marketplace changed uh, fundamentally I kind of lost interest to be honest. So I was looking for the next blank canvas for me and I um, don't know anything about technology. I still don't consider myself a tech person. Um, I don't know anything about um, uh, conferences. And so I said, well there's no community that exists that is commercial real estate technology yet. It's the biggest industry on earth, but there's no tech sector. So I said well I'll go start building that, that community. And so I had to build the community and then enter the event space because I realized that the best way that I could have an impact was bringing people to a live event. And that's when I really uh, started with Cretech. We bought it. It was a very, very small sort of meet up group of volunteers. So you know we used, we acquired it, uh, a very sort of small transaction.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And uh, you know, just set out

Speaker B: to go scale and that was back in 2012.

Speaker A: So the, the uh, it was called CRE Tech Intersect Mitch. And that started in 2012. I didn't get full, I didn't get really control of it to start investing and scaling it I'd say to 2016, 17, but it's been around since 12. You're right.

Speaker B: Got it. And in terms of what Kretech does and its business operations, can you help the audience understand that?

Speaker A: Yeah, so my audience is uh, like three primary stakeholders, Mitch. It's um, technology startups that are focused on the built environment. These can be anything from uh, data. It could be things from how you get in and out of buildings without by using your phone that we call building access. It could be on the, on the company operations side how to better communicate with their investors or it could be marketing tools. There's a, there's 10,000 of these startups now. When I got started there was probably 10. It's a very, very sort of big industry marketplace now. So it's startups then it's venture. We need the VCs to be able to support that, uh, early stage startups. And then we need the customers, the customers being the big real estate companies, their uh, heads of innovation, C suite. So what CRECH does is we go out, we build a community, we communicate with them through content. We have some really good content that we put out in the form of a newsletter and then we have two trade shows, one in New York which, where we started and then one in London. And um, that's Primary that's primarily the business is those two shows. First show I did, I think I had 100 people. The last one I did, I had in New York, um, had about 3,500.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: They've really scaled. And our audience is about 150,000 that follow us, get our newsletters, et cetera, et cetera. But our primary business, Mitch, is, uh, two conferences.

Speaker B: That is some, um, incredible growth you've seen, going from 100 people at the first trade show to just over 3,500 at the last. Was that intentional? Was there a strategy in place that your team focused on and executed around, or was that just organic out of expanding your other business activities and your audience growing over the years?

Speaker A: Great question, Mitch. It's just been organic. I mean, again, I'm, uh, not ashamed to admit we didn't know the first thing about conferences when we started. You know, we didn't. I didn't know anybody that worked in the industry. I didn't really. I didn't really attend many conferences. So I just got. I don't know, I fell out of love with a lot of the conferences that were in the sort of the real estate sector. So when we started, it was like, okay, well, what would I like? And that's. So we just started experimenting with different, you know, uh, types of shows. So in the beginning, honestly, we started. We did eight shows a year, and there were. We did them over a couple hours, and then it became a day. And then we said, well, it's probably. We're probably cannibalizing our audience. Let's consolidate that into one big or two big shows, and let's do it over two days. And so the show just became, you know, trade show because we've got these startups. Um, it became a huge networking area, a pavilion, um, so that people could come. You're looking for a job, you're looking to raise money, you're just looking to, you know, network. So we've got that component of the show, and then we've got the content side. And, um, there. There's a couple shows that I remember just seeing and. And model, trying to learn from their. What they were doing that was successful. But I didn't. We didn't really have a playbook as usual. Now we do, but back then we were just faking it until we could make it, and I think we're making it, but we still got so much room to grow.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Your team is doing extremely well. And I know you mentioned you didn't initially have a playbook in terms of how you could build and scale these events. But if I may, I'd like to take a crack at coining the Michael Beckerman playbook, and that is looking for blue oceans, looking for opportunities in areas that just people currently aren't operating in. You did that with Beckman Public Relations, you did that with Kretech, trying to create a community around technology in the built world. So for you, uh, I think a pivotal key in your success is looking for blue oceans and areas where nobody is yet operating and there isn't much competition. And then second, embracing failure, not being afraid to fail, and then just constantly trialing and iterating. And I think we've seen that play into your success over the years. Is. Is that accurate?

Speaker A: I. I think you just wrote my autobiography, Mitch. I think that. And again, it's.

Speaker B: It's not.

Speaker A: I don't want to come across as, like, arrogant in the sense that this is the playbook for. I mean, there are far quicker, easier ways to scale and I'm sure make a lot of money if, if that's your goal. Nothing more with that, um, than my journey, but it's mine and I own it. Uh, for me, you know, what I've always tried to do is say, okay, you know, when I look back on this journey, on this planet, when, um, you know, when I finally close my eyes, whatever, hopefully that's not for a very long time and I'm done. You know, what did I leave behind and what kind of impact did I have, whether it's on an individual or on a community? And was I a change agent? You know, so going, going after the hard things, it's. It's really freaking hard, obviously, of course, but I, I'm not daunted by that. Like, now there is a market for what they call prop tech, and now I have competition, and there are companies that are chipping away at us for sure. You know, there's, you know, now some of the big trade shows or companies, uh, are coming into the space. So, you know, I got to continually up my game and be on. On the, on edge of, like, innovation. Like, okay, well, we did that. That was good. We did it for a few years. What else, what else could we be doing? So we just keep iterating and trying. A lot of stuff fails, but once in a while, you get lucky. I'm blessed, though. I have a phenomenal team. Phenomenal, uh, team that I wouldn't be talking to you if I did not have. So all credit goes to the wonderful team that I'VE built.

Speaker B: That's fantastic. And let's continue down the pathway of, uh, innovation and trying new areas and, uh, being on the bleeding edge. Um, so in 2021, your team launched Cretech Climate. And essentially this is described as, uh, the voice of the real estate industry's commitment to climate tech. So can you tell us about Cretek Climate why you decided to enter this domain around sustainability and running more ecologically responsible real estate businesses? And then I've got a few other questions following that, but let's just. What was the inspiration behind Cretech Climate? And. And what exactly does that arm of the company do?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. Thanks. So it's, again, it's the same sort of theme that we've been talking about. So, um, we're in Covid at the time. We're out of the physical event business, right? We're going virtual, which felt cool for like five minutes until, you know, I basically told the team, like. And, you know, I don't want to say it like a dictator, but, like, we all came to the decision and conclusion that virtual events were not scalable for us. For us. So we tried it. We did one or two. And then I was done with it. I said, let's just ride it out. We'll wait. We'll wait till the market comes back, because it will come back. Um, so at that time, just looking for the next sort of theme that I could start thinking about, I spoke to a friend of mine, Pay it forward, Lindsay Baker of the Rocky Mountain Institute. Um, now, um, uh, she's moved on to another nonprofit, um, um, uh, Phenomenal Human. And, uh, we were just talking about, like, um, you know, what should I focus on next for content? She says, well, you know, the built environment's 40 of all carbon emissions. The leading source of greenhouse gas emissions in the world is a sector more than any other sector. And it was just like a sledgehammer, Mitch. And it was like. So I, I consider myself an environmentalist. I happen to have a beautiful piece of property that I'm the custodian of, uh, until somebody else becomes the custodian, hopefully my kids. I believe in science, and I'm terrified about the climate crisis. I have kids and I'm terrified of the planet that we're going to be leaving them. So when I heard that, it just kind of said to me, okay, you know, commercial real estate, you know, tech, this is the big one, right? So if the built environment is 40% of all carbon emissions, and I'm looking for an impact, let's go build that market. It's still a subset of my uh, of uh, the market that I'm in, in commercial real estate. But I, it's the big one. So it's going to cost 20 trillion to decarbonize buildings. That's operating the energy that comes out of the buildings, but it's also the construction of, of making buildings, what they call embodied carbon. So I just said, okay, that's where we're going next. We're not going to leave the foundation, the base, but we're going to go build into that marketplace. So that's, that's what I've been doing ever since, is really trying to now, um, lead the mission, uh, the marketplace to go and focus on decarbonization. So it's in keeping with everything that I'm doing. We gave it a separate brand just to distinguish it, but it's all encompassing in one big uh, trade show that we're organizing.

Speaker B: So how do you go about spreading that message? Is it just bringing people together from the industry, having inspirational keynotes, delivering presentations on sustainability, um, reducing the carbon footprint? Like what does this whole strategy look like in terms of actually enacting positive change amongst the industry?

Speaker A: Well, I hope, and I'm sure I will, we'll get a lot of feedback from your listeners, um, as to how to best do this. But, but for me, I'm kind of an old school blocking and tackling fella. Yep. What I do is I just connect people, connect two people and connect people and I just go out into the marketplace and find the key stakeholders, use them as a vehicle to be able to amplify the messages to their audience and then my audience. So what I do is I just go look for the change makers, the troublemakers, the rebel rousers, the ones that are on the front lines of this mission, this movement. And I just gravitate towards them and I start with 5 to 50 to 500 to 5,000 to 500,000 to 5 million. I mean that's where I'm going. So I don't know, you're going to hopefully help me understand how I could do it faster. But the only way I know how to do it Rich is just great content, great speakers, lean in on helping and just use other people to amplify the storytelling, uh, is what I do and then get them on stage. So what I always lean in on, um, the majority of our content on stage is editorial. So I just go out and get like at the last conference we just did. Uh, this is fellow Chris Sacca Chris is the most successful early stage investor in history. Instagram, Uber, Twitter, I won't call it X. Many, right. Many, many others. Now he's focusing on, uh, climate. Uh, he's got a fund called Lower carbon capital, uh, $2 billion fund. He, he's the beast of all beasts when it comes to climate investing. So what do I do? I could figure out one or two degrees of separation. Uh, I get to him and I say, you know, hey, Chris, you want to, you want to jump on my stage? And you never know. And he says yes. So I get Chris Sacca on my stage. Never spoken at an event like mine. Really hard to get, but, you know, just help him amplify the message and that, and that's how I sort of build the community. Um, it's beautiful. Yeah. So it's, it's not rocket science, I'm sure.

Speaker B: No, no. And it seems fairly simple. That's not to say it's not easy or there's not a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes, but it really is a beautiful message around building a community, connecting key stakeholders, change makers, people who are all aligned behind this mission and just giving them a medium to connect with each other, facilitate conversations and then share their message with a broader audience. I think it's a beautiful thing.

Speaker A: And just also, like, um, I'm a firm believer in, uh, you, uh, know, broadcasting what you're looking for. Like, there's no shame in, like, I'm very outspoken. Okay. This is my mission to whoever will listen. And I'm not hiding behind a brand. I'm out in front. So what, what happens is when you put yourself out there and you tell the people, people that whoever you, you know, are following you, like, this is where I'm going. You, you attract that community starts to come in.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: And it becomes inbound. So every day I'm getting inundated with startups looking for funding that are focused on climate. Because I said, I'm going to lead this, me, this marketplace, I'm going to galvanize the industry. So when you do that, they come, but then you gotta help, you gotta deliver. So somebody sends me an email and says, I'm looking to, I'm, um, fundraising. I gotcha. Come on board, get a jump, you know, climb on board, let's go. I'll make those introductions and I'll be helpful. And when you just do that, um, you know, and you, and you lean in with doing good and you're just trying to help people, you pay it forward. It does Work. There's a great book called the Do Gooder. You know, it changed my whole sort of outlook that, you know, it used to be like that in my personal life. And then I realized, you know what, there's no shame in being in business and leaning in with some of these more, you know, um, uh, philosophical, spiritual, helpful messages, like, I want to be a, uh, Do Gooder. So that's also like big in how I, I lean in on helping the community grow. So it's not just like me making an ask all the time, it's me saying, how can I help all the time.

Speaker B: It's paying it forward. And the nice part about that is it eventually does come back around.

Speaker A: And yeah, we've seen that a lot. I'm waiting. I don't have a watch. But you know what?

Speaker B: I'm sure your time will come, Michael.

Speaker A: I believe it. I believe.

Speaker B: So let's dive into you being a Do Gooder, if we may. Uh, we've been talking a lot about sustainability. How the commercial real estate industry accounts for 40% of carbon emissions. And you are on a mission of, uh, helping to spread the story of that in the industry, helping to spark the idea of, uh, hey, we need to actually do something about this because. Because the state of the climate and the environment is pretty scary, especially for my generation and younger ones. But at your events, what I'd like to learn more about is how do you embrace sustainability at your events? This is a pretty big topic in the industry right now, especially coming out of the pandemic, people returning back to the on site formats. So can you help the audience understand a. Do you implement any sustainability practices at your events? Um, have there been any challenges, have there been any failures along the way? Would like to dive into all of that.

Speaker A: Great question, Mitch. Great question. And again, this is where I'm hopeful, uh, that your community will help me because I don't think we're doing a great job. I don't think we're doing enough. It's like we lean in on it. We know it's important. Um, it's not always. It's the same thing. Like, where I look at, like, diversity on my stages and in my events, like, we start with the core covenant of wanting to do good and do the right thing, but oftentimes we fall short on the execution for a variety of reasons. It's not an excuse, but, you know, like, our show in New York is at the Javits Center. There's certain things we can do, there's certain things we Cannot do because it's not within our control. Right. When I go to London, uh, we do a show at a big convention hall. I have much more flexibility in what I can do. Whether it's signage or, uh, uh, whether it's, uh. There's a lot of small things that we can do that help recycle a lot of the materials that we're using at the trade show that could be leaning on more digital than physical. On signage and things like that, on registrations and things like that, we do all that we can to have a very sort of light, physical, non sustainable footprint. But we, I think we fall short and the team will say the same. Uh, hopefully they don't get too pissed at me for saying that. But it's true. Like, it's the same thing on the diversity. Like, you lean in, you go, okay, this is my goal. Uh, but then, you know, oftentimes you fall short, but you keep coming back and figuring, trying to figure it out. And so I think we're a long way from being what you would call a very sustainable show. Um, we're not there. I think we're doing the basic, I think, I don't want to say the minimal. I think we're doing as good as we can, but for sure we should be doing more. And so it's little things like not having canvas bags to give away. It's like not using plastic. Uh, you know, it's what we do with food, it's what we do with signage, it's what we do with everything to a degree of what we can control. Because, like, you know, again, not to get too into the weeds, but, you know, you got a union, you got, you got a lot of issues that in some cases handcuffed us. But, um, and it's not even an issue of cost, because if it costs more, we'll still do it. We're probably. So if, if it's the right thing, we want to do it. So I'd love to know from you, Mitch, what have you seen that, that the team and I at Kretech should be embracing to make our shows more sustainable? You're the guru.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm happy to dive into that with you, but I would like to highlight something that you said that I think is very important, and it's the fact that oftentimes, ah, you are bound by the restrictions that the venue and the suppliers place on you. So for those in the audience who are looking to run a more sustainable event, this is likely a question you want to have in mind. When you're considering venues, is when you're looking at venues, ask, uh, what sustainability practices do you have? Do you do composting? Do you, you do donating excess food? There's a number of different dimensions that you can look at, but as, as you mentioned, your team wants to do a lot more, especially at the New York location. But due to the venue and the rules and just the, the whole politics around it, there's certain items that you just don't have control over. So I think that is something to be mindful of, is if you're looking to run a more eco friendly and sustainable event, then keep that in mind when you're looking at venues and have that as a question that you ask and, and something that you're analyzing these venues against.

Speaker A: That's great feedback. Uh, yeah, I'll bring that back to the team. Of course, the challenge with us at this stage is we're at scale.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: So like, we've moved up all the way to Javits in New York. That's. I can't. It's not a knock on Javits. They've been great to us. We. There's no other place for me to go in New York, so I'm bound there. But composting, recycling, Absolutely. Furniture, uh, you know, anything that we could do in a circular manner, you know, the furniture that we bought for a show, we're gonna, we're gonna pay it forward and give it to somebody else to use that, you know, that may be nonprofit, uh, like, and then the food and then the water. But when it comes to things like the materials on the, on the, on the booths and the kiosks, only so much of that we can control. But we're trying. But we're trying. And so I love input. I mean, just, you know, hopefully you'll give out my email. It's, uh, on the show notes.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Give me some input. Let your community help me do better.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, we'll, we'll be happy to do that. Uh, I think a, a big onus is on the suppliers as well. For us, uh, here at Feedloop, being an event technology company who also helps our clients out with say, the on site check in, the badge printing, that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: Uh, yep.

Speaker B: Oftentimes it's a question that you need to ask your suppliers as well, is what sustainable options do you have? We started to get asked, hey, do you have compostable badges? Last year we didn't have any. At that time, A, uh, key client was like, hey, this is A really important requirement for us, and that forced us to adopt compostable badges. So ask your suppliers what options are out there. If you're working with future focused suppliers who have their interest and the broader public's interest in their mind, then they likely will work with you to brainstorm and adopt new solutions that could really help to blow up. So, uh, absolutely. Just ask your suppliers and good things should happen.

Speaker A: That's great advice, Mitch. Yeah, I hope we get to the place where, you know, um, we can make selections based on a company like yours, which is leaning in on sustainability. And that would, for people like me, you know, elevate your company in. You know, we love your company. Uh, but I'm saying across the supply chain that we use. Yeah, it should really be. That's great advice. Uh, that should be one of the top questions that we ask. What is your commitment to sustainability and how will that impact, uh, help us deliver on our promises to be a sustainable company? So it's good.

Speaker B: See, I look forward to following along. So, Michael, I've kept you for about 30 minutes now. I know you're a very busy man. I know you've got a lot on the go. Um, so before we wrap up here, I just, I want to learn more about what you have in store for the future with Kretech. I know due to the pandemic you launched Cretek Climate, you had a big focus on helping to promote that message. What lies ahead for your team. You might not be able to share any specifics, but is there anything exciting on the roadmap that you're particularly passionate about or looking for? Forward to.

Speaker A: Thanks, uh, Mitch. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's just scaling, uh, to, to have a bigger impact. So, you know, we just, you know, I want you to come to Cretech in a year or two or, you know, and see that it's doubled and tripled and s. Because if I got scale, I've got impact. So that's what I am looking for. Like, are we making an impact? Are we forcing change? Because we have. We're a tech show, so it's, you know, we're always leaning on the innovation and the reimagination. And the real estate industry right now is going through an extraordinary crisis. Office space in Toronto, in New York and everywhere has been plummeted in terms of values and occupancy. Um, there's a lot of issues on supply chain. There's a lot of issues on labor shortages. There's a lot of, um, issues on materials, uh, pricing increases with Inflation. Um, and so this is a time where this massive industry, I need to galvanize it to lean in, to adopt these solutions, to get more uh, innovative, uh, to get more creative, uh, and build cities that are more inclusive and more sustainable in the future. So there's no, the roadmap is really just get better. Yep. Clearly, uh, we need to listen to your podcast more Tricks of the Trade and do it at scale and really, really build out this climate, uh, marketplace which um, I know will be, will be massive. And if we could do that, you know, we've created not just jobs but we've um, made cities more livable, more inclusive and more sustainable for the planet. So I really look at like what we're doing is, you know, it's not a hobby, it's not a nice kind of, you know, job. It's like, it's really, we're uh, really, really passionate about the mission that we have. And as I said earlier looking back and I don't think we've done really accomplished much at all yet, like looking back and saying yeah, we, we made the planet a better place because of what we built at greetech and helped support the dreamers, the entrepreneurs, the change makers, the rebel rousers, you know, that's, that's our job is to support them, build that community and just drive adoption, uh, of an investment in tech. So yeah, that's it.

Speaker B: Small passion, your passion comes across. Michael, I, I think it's incredibly important work that, that you do and I'm excited to see the, the spotlight grow on Cretech over the coming years. I will be taking you up on that offer. I'd love to come to the event, see it grow year after year. I think you're doing.

Speaker A: Just don't be critical though, okay? Just you know, be, be gentle. Okay. Like I don't want to see you with a notepad going mhm, uh, oh yeah, oh yeah, easy on me. Okay, not to worry. Give me not to worry.

Speaker B: So with the mission of scaling in mind, I'd love to get word about you and Cretek to our audience. So where can I point people to

Speaker A: just uh, you know, create, uh.com cretech.com uh, follow me on LinkedIn at Michael Beckerman. Uh, yep, if you got some ideas to help me, shoot me an email. Michael.com. let's go. Help me get better.

Speaker B: Yeah, we'll all, we'll have all of that in the show notes before we uh, hop off here. Mike, any, any final words? No.

Speaker A: Mitch, I appreciate all that you're doing man, you know, again, for. For me with this blank canvas in. In events and conferences, you know, you're a wonderful source of inspiration, knowledge, and, uh, you know, you do it in such a graceful, inclusive, kind way. So kudos to you.

Speaker B: Thank you, Mike. I really enjoyed the conversation. Have a great rest of your day. Okay, bye for now.