Episode 112 - The Importance of Having A Purpose-Driven, Mission Based Focus with Lisa Wise

Speaker A: Welcome to that Entrepreneur Life, a, uh, podcast about entrepreneurship that takes you from idea to launch and beyond beyond. Each week, your hosts, Andrew lees and Clint McPherson, discuss different business topics aimed at adding value to any entrepreneur's journey. Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of that Entrepreneurial Life. I'm Clint McPherson. I'll be your host for today's episode. On today's episode episode, I'll be talking with the founder and CEO of Flock dc, a family of real estate management companies that tend to, uh, over $2 billion in property throughout the district proper. But before I introduce our special guest, I want to remind everyone to go subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcasting platform and sign up to our mailing list through our website at that entrepreneur life.com so you don't miss out on all the free resources we have to help you start and grow your business. With that said, I'd like to welcome our special guest for this episode, Lisa Wise to the show. How are you doing today?

Speaker B: I'm doing very well. Thanks so much for having me, Clint.

Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt. I'm excited to have you on the episode and just really get to, uh, you know, listen to your message and have our listeners, our listeners of entrepreneurs, um, you know, just really relate. Because everybody we typically have on the show, um, right during that entrepreneurial journey through the highs and the lows, we all have some kind of connection, um, even, um, whether it's, you know, feeling like you're by yourself on the mission or whatever it is. And that's why it's important to have surround yourself with a great team, um, of individuals, especially while you're trying to grow or scale your business, um, in general. But with that said, Lisa, can you take us back to when your entrepreneurial journey actually started and what it is about entrepreneurship that really gets you fired up?

Speaker B: I was born this way. So nice, you know, as a kid, just always hustling for cash. Um, and I grew up in a, you know, with few resources. Um, you know, we had kind of most of what we needed, but there wasn't much left over. And, um, you know, I recognized that we sort of had housing insecurity and other things, things that, uh, didn't sit well with me. And I felt that, um, one of the answers to that fragility in life for me would be to have more resources and more money. And so it became pretty natural instinct for me to pursue any kind of little hustle I could think of and all the traditional ones, like, well, I really wanted a paper route, actually But I was in a town that was so small, there was really no paper. So the paper route idea didn't really pencil out. And we couldn't afford a lawnmower, so that didn't pencil out. So I started a vacuum cleaning business, and that was a dollar a room. Uh, my mom shut that idea down when I was sort of trashing the vacuum cleaner by dragging it down the street and hitting potholes with it. And so then I started a dusting business that was. That had an easier entry point because you just need a kind of a cloth. And, um, I would go to the stores in town and offer to dust their shelves for cash. And I would go to this. We had a junkyard. And why or how I had access to this junkya junkyard is a mystery to me. But I would go and I would get antique Yale locks, um, like the vintage locks, and I would pull them out of the. And I would pull anything that looked valuable out of this. This scrap slash junkyard. And I would go to the antique store and they would give me credit, and I would use that credit to buy gifts for people. And I was a little salty that they didn't give me cash, but, you know, I can take what I can get. And so, you know, I had just a pretty, uh, natural entrepreneurial instinct. Ah. And that had really always continued for me throughout my life, even though I did end up. I pursued a nice long career in nonprofit management. And I did that for 15 years after graduate school. Uh, never lost sight of the ever side hustle that I had.

Speaker A: I love it. I mean, that's a true entrepreneurial spirit, right? Just tugging at your strings, finding different ways, right? Learning how to pivot. I mean, being flexible, right? Jumping around until you find your niche, right? Something that you can really dive into. And again, it's, uh, a lot of, A lot of the times, even though you're passionate about something, you got to learn the ins and outs, right? You just, you know, when you're passionate about something, it's really educating yourself in that area and staying true to that and in dedicating enough time to be an expert in that, right. Usually when you love something and you can dive into it, you're really going to resonate with that and you're going to be more, you know, your ears are going to be more open, right? You're going to be more thoughtful about possibly your approach and instead of having the shiny object syndrome. Because I think all entrepreneurs, no matter what, I mean, there's obstacles in your way. And shiny, shiny Object syndrome is real. Right. And so you just got to learn how to put those blinders on, sometimes shut it off and just keep moving forward. Because again, that's the shiny object syndrome is an obstacle just like anything else is thrown your way. I mean, have you experienced that through your journey as well?

Speaker B: Absolutely. There are always things that look sort of as if they're a natural extension of whatever you're working on or an opportunity that's too good to be true and an instinct to just jump on things versus necessarily giving them a lot of thought. I'm very much a build a plane while you're flying it kind of person. And that's sometimes good and sometimes bad. I mean, I have some business experiences that I would have liked to do without. But, um, I think for me, I've always measured whether or not I should be moving forward based on, uh, on whether the objective is to advance a sense of purpose or mission. Uh, if there's good intention, I think that's what I need to have. Um, sort of, that's the wind I need at my back in order to make sure that I'm actually going into things with the right frame of reference. And while I'm very entrepreneurial, um, and I was a sort of natural born capitalist, I'm quite disinterested in profit for myself. I'm very interested in profit for other people. So with that mindset, I think it's easier for me to steer away from the things that are going to detract from that.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I really think again, as an entrepreneur, you just touch on something. Right. Uh, and really finding value for the other individual, not just, not just for yourself or money eventually has to come. But I mean if you focus on adding that value to the area of operations that you're trying to be the expert in, I just think the money comes, right. And so it's, it's just a product of the environment or the product of what you're actually doing and putting into it. And so the hustle is real. Right. And so the dedication and everything that goes into that I think is important. And as entrepreneurs, um, this is one of my questions for you. How important is it to have a purpose driven, mission based, focused. Right. And how have you actually leveraged that approach with Flock DC to stand out from your competition, especially in your local area?

Speaker B: Yeah. As a mission driven, purpose based and social justice company in the real estate management space, nothing differentiates us more than our mission 100%. The impression most people have of their management companies is low. Would Be generous, uh, or unfavorable would be generous. But we're really thinking about the fact that delivering an exceptional property management experience where we're able to really think about people as whole human beings, as residents, not as tenants, as contributing members to the community, not as just people who pay their rent. Or we think about the fabric of the architecture and the property that we're taking care of. These are huge responsibilities. And to provide safe, dignified housing to people, especially when they were so vulnerable during the pandemic, is really a privilege. And we don't take that lightly. So it's really our responsibility. For me, it's a deep responsibility to make sure that I'm giving people the best possible life experience I can through management. And there are very few industries that touch our lives every single day. And management, property management, we're all interfacing with properties all day long. Whether it's the home that you own, uh, or the office that you work in, or the store or restaurant, all of those properties need to be managed by people. I would argue if they're managed by people who are ethical and care about how they're being used, and care about the people that are occupying them, and care about the community that's hosting them, then I think we'd have a better world.

Speaker A: 100%. I really, um, you know that it. Just reading about what your business was about and what you, you stand for, really, you know, right away, just reading on paper sets you apart. Right? And I'm like, really, like I gotta hear this. And so with you saying what you just said, it's just one of those things. It's like again, you're not, you're not this huge company that's just, just looking for that one time transaction. Right. You're not just like, okay, money, let's go. Like I'm, uh, managing all these properties. Next, next, next. Right. Like just feeding, feeding the beast. Right. Basically you're sitting there again thinking about your local community. Think about architecture or the, the buildings or, or the area that you're operating in and, and seeing how you can, you know, build those relationships and foster those relationships a little. Well, I say a little, but probably so much more than other management companies, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, truly. I find most property management companies are more transactional in nature. They're looking at how you monetize the experience. They pay their bills, they spend as little as they can in an effort to make as much as they can.

Speaker A: That's all they care about.

Speaker B: Right. I mean, I think, you know, uh, that's a very traditional capitalistic. It is how you uh, it's how you measure success. I think there are different ways of measuring success. I think there are different definitions to profitability. I think there are people who are now ready and interested in working with companies who are looking at the definition of profit differently, who are looking at purpose, who are asking themselves, is the money I'm spending is the relationship I'm creating with XYZ business one that's better for the world? And we have a really unique opportunity as a company to say yeah, that's us. And you do get a choice about where you're spending your money and we do then I think become much more attractive as a company. I think we do have accelerated profits as a result of our values based approach to the work and we were able to deliver a better experience because I can offer that my staff is much happier on the whole than you might find management staff and other businesses, uh, or other companies. Um, because we're not just tending to property and residents and the investors that own these properties. We're taking really good care of the team that takes care of all of those folks.

Speaker A: And even though I can see that Obviously systems and SOPs need to be established for any business. Right? But I think when you take a uh, approach like yours, it could, it probably more, more along the lines keeps you on your toes, right? Because you're opening the world up or your uh, business up to all kinds of things and to get your hands in all kinds of things and they show that you care. Right. And again it's not that, not about just the transactions and how much money can I bring in and, and all of this stuff. Uh, I just think again that's huge in how you're trying to leverage that approach and that's a huge differentiator at the end of the day because like you just said, most of them, um, most businesses operate under the traditional method where they're just transactional based and that's how they're measuring success. And, and I agree 1000% when you talk about success can be measured in different ways. Right. It just doesn't have to be transactional. And it's also about what success means to you as an individual. Right? I mean sometimes it is collecting that paycheck for somebody, sometimes it is being able to get that money, that enough money to live that nomadic life that you want to live or that keyboard life. You know, you're just floating around, you're able to work and live anywhere. Right. But, but then it's Just sometimes it's, hey, how can I. How can I make the world? Because the world right now, I mean, if you. Unless you've been living in a rock. This is crazy, right? Just. Just in general. No, no matter. If you're talking about, you know, everything that's going on with COVID whether it's politics, I mean, whatever realm you want to drive down, whenever lane you want to hop in, I mean, there's confrontation, there's. Hey, uh, like when I grew up, look, uh, I'm 38, but when I grew up, I grew up in Florida. And it was like, you could agree to disagree and still be friends and still hang out, but it's just so crazy. Like, you just have one. Your view might just be slightly different than somebody else's, and you can't even talk to them. M. Right. Or they won't even talk to you. Like, and just living in a neighborhood now, it's just weird. And it's just like, why can't we just all get along? And if we are more community focused and how can we help the next person and. And just continue to add value? And regardless, like, whatever your belief system is, that's. That's you, right? That's something that. Whether you grew up in a certain part of the world, whether you grew up in a certain household and your parents believe something, I mean, all those views and values usually are pressed upon you pretty early in your age, right? And so that really molds you into who you are going forward. And so I just think, again, if we could just be more about, how can I add value to anybody's situation, Right? How can I just help? Like you said, we live in a better community and the world would just be a better place in general. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, agreed.

Speaker A: I mean, so with that, I mean, it's just like, again, it gives me. It gives me goosebumps talking about this type of stuff, because just for the. I mean, like, sometimes when I'm just driving around, I'm like, people can be so nasty. You're just like, wow, why? I mean, you're just wasting your time. And, uh, I mean, really, at the end of the day, I'm wasting my time because, like, I'm not going to be that way. Right? You can. You can be as ugly as you want to. It's just, you know, just have to give you some kindness in return and hopefully your attitude changes. Right? I mean, that's the only approach that you can really take in some of those circumstances.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I definitely agree with that.

Speaker A: So can you touch a little bit on, you know, how, how taking ah, a plant, a planthropic, um, approach as a business and some possible strategies for us to leverage that so we can gain that greater market share or visibility in the area.

Speaker B: You know, every company is going to have to decide how they're going to market their services. And for us, early on we didn't have a lot of cash to throw at that and in fact we had none really. But you know, we were very, I think, interested in finding creative ways to be as visible as possible. And um, one of the things that we did was donate our time and make that available to community organizations that could really use that support. So we would get paint donated from a local hardware store and paint the outsides of nonprofit buildings, or we would use all of our social media channels to promote organizations that were doing really great work in the city. Or we were doing food drives, or we were doing clothing drives, or we were doing Trash Box. Or we were, we do a lot of Trash Box. We like Trash Box. Or we were doing, you know, fundraisers for organizations. Even if we didn't have the cash to give, we were doing those fundraisers. Or when we did have cash, um, and wanted to make that available to organizations that mattered to us, then we would try and sponsor their, their events or sponsor their organization. And the visibility we got from that was, I think, you know, a lot more. It was much richer. It wasn't just a click or um, that we sort of uh, it wasn't an impression, it was a relationship we were creating. When you're creating relationships with people that may at some point down the line or in the moment be interested in your services, then you're always going to be top of mind. If you're just an ad on a website or Facebook feed or an Instagram feed, uh, there's value in that approach to visibility. But I do believe that when you're partnering with organizations that are working really hard to make the community a better place, if they see you as a partner, they're going to be really invested in your success because they need those partnerships. And so when you have, there's something very different than seeing an ad and then working together to make the city a better place and the sort of the cross referencing that you'll do to make sure that everybody's really thriving in those dynamics and those partnerships. And that was really kind of the origin story for how we decided to choose philanthropy over traditional marketing and choose giving versus investing in things that weren't at the end of the day, going to make a huge difference. And we do have, you know, certainly path for, for some of our more traditional advertising, but we, we never dialed back what we want to do for other organizations. And so we've done things as you know, we've, we're more formal in our approach now. We have a foundation that we started and that's the Birdseed Foundation. Everything's bird related in the company and for good reason. Everybody loves birds. Um, the uh, um, foundation does a couple different things, one of which is to just really provide that community support, to engage with organizations through volunteer time, through fundraising events. Each year we do a huge event that we not only host in support of an organization that provides accessible health care, it's a federally qualified health center. But we do most of the work to host that event. We're not taxing the organization with more work. Right. So we want to take that off their plate. We were able to raise seventy, um, thousand dollars this year, even just through an online raffle to support this local health center. And we did it last year and the year before and we'll kind of continue to do that. That's a signature event for us now. People really look forward to it. It's great for the community. It's a way to engage more and more partners through sponsorships and people are able to connect and network with us. Core business but as people, people who care about. So we do that work. We work with different agencies and organizations that really go out of their way to support the community. Uh, we have a micro grant program where we offer $2,500 to a doer maker or a disruptor in the city for a project that they're working on that could be like a three month project. So we've, we've funded things as varied, uh, as a, uh, bicycle repair station that we sponsor to get put into a neighborhood that could really use one. We sponsored murals. We've sponsored um, firefighters who were replacing smoke detectors with combo, uh, smoke detector carbon monoxide. Because in neighborhoods where older people were starting to use their, in the wintertime, they were using their stoves for heat. And that was getting really dangerous. One of the last things that we sponsored just before the pandemic was a, uh, woman who hosts birthday parties for homeless kids. Um, none of these efforts need to be nonprofit, uh, oriented. It's a one page application. It's really simple. And then we just give you the cash. There's really no obligation to us make that funding available as if it's a windfall and not, uh, create a burden to the, um, to the folks applying. We want them actually to have the cash to do the work, right. Instead of the work being to get the cash. And then in 2020, when George Floyd was murdered, we thought long and hard about what kind of a role our organization and company and industry, uh, plays in sort of replicating racist models of homeownership, um, and disparities and housing disparities and equity. And they're sort of coming to a place as a company where we're not comfortable not calling that out. And the real estate industry has been so intentional around creating pathways for white folks to own homes and excluding people of color that we decided to create a housing justice fund that gives grants to first time black and brown homebuyers in our region for down payments. And again, same concept, very simple application. It's pretty much a things attached grant. It's. We offer between five, 10 and $15,000. And we've been able to get, we've had four folks this year close on their homes and we have six more in queue to do the same. So we'll continue to offer that funding for as long as we can make that funding available.

Speaker A: That's incredible. I love that whole background. I mean that right there is what it's all about, right? I mean you're, you, you've built up a whole ecosystem, right, that just feeds off itself, right? I mean that. And that's pretty awesome. I mean, sitting there, seeing again how you can add value to the community, you know, doing just that through everything you just talked about. And that's just incredible in itself, right? Because, you know, I mean there's so much going on. Um, and just like you brought up with the, the division there with the race as well, right? And how that's been one of those things and jumping on that and running with it and finding a way that you can contribute again, you know, in, in a touchy subject in some areas, right, for some people. But at the end of the day, look, you, you were, you were creating something and touching people's lives that you know, will just bear, you know, then the time, I mean, it just, it will keep going. It almost building like a legacy that just transfers over, right? That's something that's just very impactful. Something that the community won't forget. Something that, you know, I mean, and I believe all the things that you got going on, I mean, why, who wouldn't want to be part of that, right? Like as far as when you bring on a team or surround yourself with the right people and then they just see that you're, every time you're stepping up to the plate and coming up with another way that you can actually help out and you're living up to, you know, what you stand for. And that's a lot of things. People give you the lip service in a lot of areas and tell you, right, Everybody's a customer based service business and number one priority. Everybody says that, but how do you actually make an impact? Right. And I think everything that you got going on, one, and it's incredible. Two, I, uh, mean, it's just one of those things. Again, hearing stories like that gets me pumped up and motivated because again, that's what it's all about. Even, even when you're, when you're get into entrepreneurship, some, some people get into it for selfish reasons. Right? And again, everybody's like, I'm going to do this, I can do this better. But how can you actually make an impact and how can you touch other people along the way? And it's really coming up with initiatives like you have and just, just keep going and say like, what else can I do? Again, not just, just not just being satisfied where, where you're at here, right? But just like getting together as a team, hashing some things out, coming up, creative ways that you can continue to impact and touch a local community and continue those off for years and years to come and not just stop it. Right. I mean again, it's building relationships. Like you said, it's the relationship that ends up, you know, they might, you might not get business out of some of these individuals now, but that word of mouth engine is greater than anything else, especially in your local community. Right? Because they're always going to know what you stand for. They're always going to be talking about you and you're touching people's lives in such a positive way. Especially with Helman helping with, you know, the homes and all this stuff. I mean that, that's uh, that's amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah. Everybody benefits when more people own their homes anyway, so.

Speaker A: 100%.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So what, what's the right way? Um, and especially, I mean this, this might be a little tricky, but I'm sure you, you can, you can knock this one out of the park too. But what's the right way to go about possibly starting and not only starting, but ending up thriving as a service based business during a crazy time like this pandemic? I mean, uh, we're still pushing through this and it is affecting a lot of small Businesses and just some of my clients have actually just dropped off. And over the last few months, like I've had three clients going out of business just because, whether it's construction, whether it's, hey, we're not getting enough foot traffic, this, we just can't sustain this with the uh, with all these punches that are being thrown at us as businesses and they're just going under. And you know, the first thing they do is they'll, they'll cut the marketing budget. Then they try to figure out like, okay, what I do now and it's just like, oh, well, all the marketing that I was trying to get out in front of people with the traditional marketing, I mean that or, or even the digital marketing. Right. It's like you cut that out of you, definitely foot traffic is even going to slow down even more. And then now their next thing is just to fold and, and that's sad. So what would you say about starting and thriving as a, uh, as a service based business during this type of this time?

Speaker B: I think it, it makes the most sense to think about whether you're in an evergreen service. You know, I like property management, not just because I like housing and I like stable housing, but because, uh, you know, everybody needs a home.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: And ideally everybody will be in one. And so there is. I remember having a conversation with my team, the last, you know, in person meeting that we had before we had to leave for the pandemic for a year and a half for the pandemic. And I told them that it was that we were looking at a hard road, uh, however long that road unfolded and what we needed to, and that it would be hard financially for us regardless, that we knew that there was going to be some financial impact and we had been prepping for that and trying to understand what it would take for us to be as lean as possible during an uncertain time. But I did remind people that if there's any business to be in, this is the one. And that management and being in the home delivery space. Right. And helping people have a good sense of home, uh, was a really important environment to be in. Again, that evergreen space, if you're looking to start a business, you're thinking about how do we make sure that we have stability and we have a strong trajectory and future as a company. You want to look at those areas of the economy where they're stable in good times and bad, uh, which doesn't mean that you're not going to have struggles. It doesn't mean that you're not going to have external threats. It doesn't mean that you won't suffer when the economy changes, but you'll likely not see your business needing to fold as a result of those times that you'll be able to, if you're built right, you'll be able to continue to operate. I think service based businesses can be more stable. To be honest. I think one of the benefits of a service based business is that, you know, you're not having to invest a lot of money in something that may or may not pencil out. So like you're, you know, it's, you're not inventing something and then hoping that they'll. So it's not like a, you know, the entire technology industry is so dependent on spending a lot of money hoping for the best. And service based businesses are really not in that same kind of large scale, large format risky zones, but they're not without risk, especially when people's access to those services has been completely transformed by the pandemic. And uh, access to talent has been completely transformed by the pandemic. And now we went from my team members saying like, I'm so glad that I have food on the table, which we were all glad that we had food on the table, to, you know, this great resignation and I guess people not going to work anymore. We've been lucky that we've had only one person leave. Uh, so, you know, and they, they were offered an opportunity that if I were them, I would not have passed that up. And that to me it was, it was, I was impressed that someone was poached for my staff that says, that says great things about me, right, and our company and the culture that we've created. And I was super grateful for that. Um, that being the exit versus that I'm unhappy I'm leaving. And we haven't had that happen. And that's because one of the things that you can do to protect yourself is to put the server first. And what did Richard Branson say? He's like, oh, do you put the customer first, uh, or the company first? And he's like, well, I put the staff first. And that is the right formula. We work really hard to make sure that we honored every single person during this pandemic who was willing and able to, to keep coming to work and keep showing up and honoring not only their health and safety, the fact that they're freaked out by a pandemic, that they're scared, they're in an uncertain environment, just being as nimble and caring and as empathic as possible. Across all of the people's lives that we're touching. Not just mine as an owner. Right. Mine was the last priority.

Speaker A: That's awesome. As a business owner, as a founder, how, like, if you could do one thing as a company and just from what you've seen, you know, being the founder, what's that one thing that you would do to attract and retain great talent? And what would that be? I mean, you've touched on some great points already, um, in the community that you built. But can you go a little bit just based off of that and give it, give me some, give, um, our audience something that, you know, maybe if they're in a service based business, um, that they can do themselves to attract and retain great talent. Um, especially during a time where, like you just mentioned, a team, a team member got poached. But it speaks volumes of what you've done. But even my wife, she works, she's in the corporate world, right? And she, she's in an area of losing talent now. But see, now the recruiters are, instead of like lining talent up for these businesses, these, these, these recruiters are having to reach out into other businesses because the talent pool is so low, like nobody's filling applications out no more. It's like, well, we got to go tap into this person. I found them on LinkedIn, should be a great fit, and now they're just being poached themselves. And my wife as a manager in the accounting department is struggling with that because even though they got great, like, again, she's in the corporate world so she can make some impact being the manager. But then it's like, how much is that company culture similar to something like you've established? Right? And so that's where you get a little bit more flexibility as a entrepreneur to where you can have more of an impact, to where you can create that culture that people want to stay.

Speaker B: Yeah, we profit share every year and love it. I give on, uh, any given year between 50 and 80% or more of the profit back to the staff. So when we have a good year, they have a great year. Um, we're constantly evaluating what our benefits program looks like to support them where they are in their lives. So I have a lot of people that work in the trades and work with their hands. And so we are, we are, um, very comfortable and committed to making sure that we're taking care of people's long and short term disability payments in full so that if something happens to them, they're able to pay their bills, uh, even if they can't work because not all of us are privileged enough to be able to work behind a screen. I want to make sure that they feel protected and honored. We're looking at 401k contributions. We're looking at helping people pay their student loan debt and save, uh, money for their kids to go either to a private school if they need that, or to pay back, um, or help save for their tuition. Long term, we make sure that people have time off and time with their families. I think that work life balance is an asset for the entire company. It's not a downside. Uh, we have strong parental leave. I mean, my two most senior team members are both on parental leave right now. And, um, you know, I think it's interesting to hear how each of them have very different experiences with their spouses. You know, one spouse was able to take two weeks of unpaid leave and we do three months of fully paid leave. And the contrast there, um, was that's not how you bond with a child. I mean, if we don't, how can we take care of talent if we don't let our talent take care of their children? So you have to live your values and you have to be committed to understanding that there may not be the same economic incentive for something. But the long game is to say, if I'm taking care of this person, I'm giving them all the advantage I possibly can. I'm spending more on them, I'm creating more space, I'm giving them more time, I'm giving them more freedom, I'm giving them more agency. Then what I'm going to hope the bet is, and it's a hard calculation to do, the bet is my business will be more attractive, it will be more stable, it will be more secure, it will have a better service, it will be differentiated, it will have less turnover, it will have all of these things that have a much higher return on that initial investment. So it's sort of a twofer. Like I have a happier team member and I think a more profitable company. And I could look at the short term spend on that or I could just say, you know what my gut tells me and I think we've been talking in the office about how the gut's the second brain. I think it's my first brain, but my gut tells me this is an investment. Uh, it's not a spend, it's a save. Uh, it's just a long term save. That, that is, there are ways of giving back to your team and creating a culture and a place where people actually really want to be in both non monetary and monetary ways and being creative around that and letting them know that you care about what they're bringing to the table and what you're bringing to their, to their, to your client base, I think creates a lot more buy in.

Speaker A: Oh, 100%. I mean, I agree. Got me fired up just listening to you talk about that. Because again, it's like, I think businesses, like just these big, bigger businesses, um, sometimes they just become a shell of themselves to some extent, right? They set out and they have these company values, but are they really living up to that? Are they really looking out for the best interests of the people working for them? Are they actually looking out for the best interest of the shareholders and themselves at the end of the day? Right. Like, it's like one of those things. I get it. Sometimes these businesses are money making machines and then it's like, okay, well if, if not you, we can replace you.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: And, and I think if you, if you have that mindset over time, you're gonna, you're gonna have a lot more people just go. And I really think sitting down as a team or sitting down as a staff and talking about, or, or you as the founder or the, the owner of the company, sitting down, like, how can I retain this talent? Because, because your intuition is dead on, right? Over the long term, it just makes more sense. And that's not always going to say that it's going to be 100%, you know, going to retain everybody because they might get an offer that you wouldn't have probably refused either.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And so it's like, okay, I totally respect that. Right? Like, go, go for it. We're still here at the end of the day, just go for it. Right?

Speaker B: And then we've had people come back. My first hire went to grad school. She got an mba. Then she went and worked, you know, at one of the big banks. And then she came back and that was awesome. She came back twice as talented and um, experienced and really clear on why this is a great place to be versus always wondering, is there a better place to be?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what a lot of people do. And I really think, I mean, even when I was in the military, I was in the military for 10 years. It just, it's just one of those, I mean, it's a, it's a business in itself too, right. I mean, we're actually doing a job. We have. I mean, but it's just like, it just gets so political. But at the end of the day too, when you start looking at everything, they, they, they, they preached a family first approach. But when we deploy as much as we did, like when I was in, I was like, I'm out. Like, this is crazy. Like my wife, I, uh, you know, my kid, my first kid was born, don't, I can't, don't even have a relationship with them when he, you know, until he's three. And I was like, that's sad. Like, I got to be there for his birth, but I'm not. Right. I couldn't take time off. I was deployed, had to be there, like, couldn't come. It just, it was a nightmare. Um, but I mean, I enjoyed parts of, of and I miss it. Right. Being in the military, you're all striving for the same common goal, right? It's really like being on a team, sporting a sporting team or whatever. Like when I played baseball, I was like, I had that feeling like, you know, we all have that common goal. We're rowing the boat together. That's why I'm an entrepreneur. Because at the end of the day, other entrepreneurs, regardless of what niche you're in, you're still rowing the boat. Yeah, you might be on different paths, but you can jump on a, on a podcast like this and start talking and be able to relate to somebody and listen to their experience and take some from it and just benefit from it. And so like, if you're, if you're an owner or if you have some input, like I would encourage you, um, if you're listening to this podcast, to just listen to what Lisa, she just killed it right there, you know, on that question, I mean, just slayed this whole interview, I think, um, and just really got me fired up as entrepreneur to really look at, you know, how you can make an impact, not only the community, but for the people that work for you and how you could continue to make it better for your team. So, uh, at the end of the day, they're not looking elsewhere, right? I mean everybody, everybody's going to be like, oh, that sounds interesting. But when you build that culture, when you build that and you're actually like, you were, you were talking about like the maternity leave or whatever, and it's just like a week here or three days compared to three months. It's just like long term, if you, if you can actually get people to understand the value that you're providing as a company. I mean, it's like you said, it's almost a no brainer. The intuition is like Man. I mean, you listen to your gut, intuition, whatever you want to call it. It's like, I'm pretty sure that the way we're approaching things is one, badass and two, we're heading in the right direction. Right. I mean, I just, I love everything, um, that you. You've talked about in this interview, and I love everything your. You and your company stands for because, again, your company wouldn't stand for it if you weren't behind that and had that vision as well. And I'm sure, pretty sure you have a great team behind you that continues to help you think more outside the box and continue to row the boat together. And I've enjoyed every bit of this interview.

Speaker B: Oh, well, thank you so much. I have as well. Um, so it's a thrill to be on the same page.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, guys, I think that's a wrap for this episode. And, Lisa, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your day and joining me and adding value to what me and Andrew are trying to do on our podcast.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker A: No doubt. It's really been a pleasure, Lisa. Thank you all so much for listening to that Entrepreneur Life. To learn more about what Lisa is working on, you can check her out. Uh, what is a good website for them to jump on?

Speaker B: Go to www.flock-dc.com.

Speaker A: that's awesome. You heard it. You heard it directly from Lisa herself. If you like what you heard today, please subscribe to our podcast. And don't forget to download our free ebook about the success mindset@entrepreneur life.com. thanks for continuing to support what we do as entrepreneurs. And don't forget to join us in next week for another episode of that Entrepreneur Life. Thanks for listening to that Entrepreneur Life podcast. Be sure to visit that entrepreneurlife.com to join the conversation, access our show notes and discover our fantastic bonus content. Don't forget to join us next week for another episode as we continue to add value. Until next time, Ra.