Pioneering The Diary Free Ice Cream Movement With Daniel Nicholson, President and CEO of Nadamoo

Speaker A: Hey guys, and welcome to the Ted Teo Business show. This is Ted, your friend and host. Speaking on today's show, we have Daniel Nicholson, the president and CEO of Nadamu. And he's here to share with us how Nadamu has helped pioneer the dairy free ice cream movement in America. Now what I find interesting about Daniel's story is that even though he was not the founder of the company, he eventually found himself having to lead the company. And in total, it took him 10 years to before he eventually found the success that he wanted from Nadamu. Now, today's interview is a great reminder that success does not come overnight. All these and more after this quick commercial break. Hey guys, it's Ted. Have you ever thought of starting your own podcast? If the answer was yes, I would love to help you. Just check out my podcasting 101 series on YouTube where I cover everything that you need to know. To get your podcast from zero to launch, just hop onto YouTube and search podcasting 101 Ted Teo. That's T E D T O. Or you can jump onto my website at www.tattio.com for the links. And now let's dive right in. Hey Daniel, thanks for joining us today. Welcome to your business audio masterclass. Why don't we start by having you say hi to the listeners and share with us who is Daniel Nicholson outside of work?

Speaker B: So, Daniel Nicholson, outside of work? Uh, he's a family man. I really enjoy spending time with my family. Don't have any children of my own yet, but my niece, my nieces, my nephew, uh, my mom, my uncle, cousins, you know, very family oriented. Um, and enjoy. Enjoy time traveling and spending time outdoors. Really, that's, that's where I, um, that's where I am grounded and uh, centered is when I get.

Speaker A: So has Uncle Daniel brought his nieces out for a trip recently?

Speaker B: Um, so haven't really been on any trips recently. I actually went this weekend, um, to the hill country though, with one of my sisters and one of my nieces. My mom was out in the hill country here just outside of Austin, and we had a nice, ah, afternoon brunch out in the hill country, which is nice.

Speaker A: Oh, that sounds so nice. Okay, so Daniel, you are the president and CEO of Nadamu, but share with us in your own words, what is Nadamu about and why is it offering a product that's actually important for the consumers to be aware of today?

Speaker B: Yeah, so we, we really are one of the pioneers, or we're one of the pioneers of the dairy free frozen dessert movement. Our company came to be back in 2005 and very early, very, very early. You know, uh, now Fast forward to 2022. Everybody kind of knows that there are dairy free frozen dessert options out there. But I think, you know, we, we feel very, uh, we feel very much, um, we feel it very important that we were a part of those pioneering years before anybody really knew the benefits of a dairy free lifestyle or a less dairy lifestyle. Um, and really for us, more than anything, um, the fact that we created a dairy free frozen dessert product that tasted just like ice cream very early on, um, is really something that I think has given us staying power m throughout the years. And I think as the non dairy movement and the plant based movement have evolved, great tasting products, um, are just necessary, it's necessary for these alternative products to taste good. And so I think that's where we were just really early to all of this and have really enjoyed being a part of a sustainability movement, um, being a part of the health and wellness movement and generally just being a part of the food movement where food, food should always taste good. You know, people need to know where their food comes from. The transparency movement, really, I mean being certified organic, non gmo, um, you know, to name a few, certified gluten free, we have a lot of certifications that we go after too because we, we want to make sure that we are being transparent with the consumer and that they know, um, that we are working with third party entities that are governing the quality of the products, uh, that go into Nadamoo.

Speaker A: And I think one important point is that Nadamu started in 2005 and this is way before uh, really there was any attention on the plant based movement and the possibility of having dairy free ice cream being on the market. So it can be said that Nadamu did spearhead, uh, the whole movement on this aspect of the food industry.

Speaker B: Am I right? For us, in the early stage, for one, I'll say we were doing this in Texas, right? I'm not sure how, how many of the listeners are familiar with, you know, the fact that Texas is a massive agriculture state, right? Like driven by cattle farmers, you know, dairy farmers, chicken farmers, all sorts of stuff. There's a lot of land here, a lot of traditional farming, um, being done. And so for us to be selling a non dairy ice cream product to the Texas consumer back in 2005, nobody knew what we were doing. Like it didn't make sense to anybody that ice cream could be made without milk in it, without Dairy milk in was a crazy idea. People were looking at us like, uh, you know, well, then what is it? If, if you're not using cow's milk, what, what are you using? And so those were the questions that we were getting all the time from consumers when we were doing in store demos, when we were showing up at local food festivals, uh, and just sampling the product. That was a big part of our, uh, marketing strategy in the beginning, was to go really grassroots and to go gorilla, you know, guerrilla marketing. Getting the, getting people, almost force spoon feeding people into giving the product a try at the same time that we were trying to educate them on how we were able to make ice cream without cow's milk.

Speaker A: And so as, so in Nadamu's early days, were you going around to food markets, supermarkets, and appearing with a, uh, refrigerator and providing food demonstrations to help you understand what exactly Nadamu is offering?

Speaker B: Correct. I mean that's, that's pretty much what it was like. And here, I mean, here in Austin, there were always cool kind of more, uh, quote unquote, counterculture type events where a lot of plant based consumers or vegans were. And so we would pop up at those as well, where we knew that we wouldn't have to educate consumers as much. Uh, we would just educate them on the fact that we were a new local option that they, that they had. Um, but yeah, I mean, some of the early events we went to the Texas State Fair. It's the largest state fair in the United States of America. As far as how many people, as far as how many people show up to it and how big can it get, man? It's. I, I think so. The, the state fair takes place over a period of about a month. I'm, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker A: Month. That's pretty quite long.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, and throughout that period, I, I want to say like millions of people travel through the doors. Um, so it's just like super well attended. What was really funny, our booth for one of the Texas State Fair setups was right next to a cow milking demonstration.

Speaker A: Wow. No way.

Speaker B: If you can even imagine that. Yeah, we're. Yeah. And people were looking at us like, you know, you guys don't belong here.

Speaker A: I guess they saw you as a hippies and I guess you were the counter culture guys at a fair.

Speaker B: Exactly. And, but you know, we, we went right there to the fair and we served people. Uh, for one, we were giving out free samples. No, usually nobody turns down free ice cream. So that's, that's, that's always one way to entice him. But yeah, we were able to share our product with people who had no idea that again, that ice cream could be made without cow's milk. And so these were a lot of our early experiences. Just like, let's get out there in front of people, let's not shy away from sharing the product with whoever we can entice to take a sample. And I think that was a really big part of uh, of how we were able to, you know, begin to create enough of a market, um, to continue to build and expand the brand into new territory.

Speaker A: Okay, so it's clear that a lot of the work in this early days for Nanamu was to actually help consumers understand what exactly is offering. But uh, let's talk a little bit about how the industry has changed. So when Nanamu first started being plant based wasn't the most mainstream idea at that point in time. So uh, how has it changed over the years? What, when did becoming plant based become a lot more mainstream from your perspective? And how did this affect Nanamu's sales?

Speaker B: Uh, I mean that's a, that's a great question. I really feel like maybe uh, for us, rapid growth uh, really began when we went national with Whole Foods. With Whole Foods, who was our, you know, who was our very first partner. Whole Foods was the first, the first retailer to ever pick up Nadamoo. And when we went national with them and 2014 or 2015, um, I really think that's uh, that coincided with explosive growth in the dairy free and plant based movement in general. That's around the time when you started seeing, you know, brands like Beyond Meat kind of start to pop up and become a little more mainstream. And, and we were right there, I mean we were right there kind of ready and prepared and think about it, we had already been operating for about

Speaker A: a decade, so actually really took a full decade before you saw the explosive success that took place.

Speaker B: Uh, correct, correct. And that's just how long it took for, you know, the, you know, call it lactose intolerance or dairy intolerance movement to gain critical mass. That's when sustainability kind of started to begin a bigger or, you know, started to become a bigger movement here in the United States and across the country. And that gave rise to the plant based movement where people were beginning to see, oh, there's a way that I can contribute to the sustainability of the planet by making consumption decisions and changing my consumption practices to these other plant based non dairy products. And I think that's really where the Critical mass began to build and a big, our growth really began to accelerate. Um, sort of right there and you know, kind of 2014, 2015.

Speaker A: Yeah, so it's great that, you know, Nanamu actually laid in the foundations really early on and it was actually at the right place at the right time for it to actually enjoy the explosive growth.

Speaker B: Correct. And I think we also had a lot of help from um, from the independent film industry. Right. A lot of great documentaries, Forks over knives, cowspiracy, you know, like there were a lot of, you know, plant based documentaries that started coming out, kind of laying out some of the, some of the fact based arguments for the fact that animal agriculture is just as a major drag on, um, on our quest to create a more sustainable future for the planet. And so I think a lot of things just started to hit all at once. A lot of, you know, quote unquote plant based propaganda, um, really began and big media started to really pick up on it and it became a talking point because became a polarizing, you know, it became a more polarizing issue and, and the people who were against it, were adamantly against it and thought all the plant based, you know, the plant based people were, were crazy and, and you know, and vice versa. The people who, who were passionate about it became more and more passionate about it. And I think, you know, it's, it's kind of sad that that's what it takes in the world is, is, you know, an issue has to become very polarizing in order for, you know, it to become a part of the larger conversation and become.

Speaker A: And at least there's a conversation going on right now. So it's not all bad.

Speaker B: Uh, no, I think it's great. And the conversation needs to continue and we need to get um, we need to continue to be better informed as the movement evolves. And yeah, I think it's all great. It's great, uh, that everybody is more aware than ever before of the various options that are out there for them to be a part of the sustainability solution. Okay.

Speaker A: M. So we just established that consumers today are a lot more ready to try plant based products out. But um, why don't you share with us what is the difference in the way that Nadamu, um, actually tried to educate these customers earlier on at the start and right now. So I know food demonstrations was a big thing back then and this must have been a problem when Covid came because food demonstrations were no longer available. So what was the tactics or what changed for Nadamoo strategy during this period

Speaker B: of Time we did, we did, um, so we really pivoted again. Like I shared a vast majority of our marketing strategy before was sampling the product, sampling it in store, sampling it at large scale tasting events. Um, it just so happened we were starting to diversify our marketing plan because we're like, look, we can't be everywhere. We can't have, you know, we can't be handing out a spoonful, uh, you know, a spoonful of ice cream at a time.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so the really scaling the demo program to the national level, it already had us beginning to work on new solutions for marketing things that could be potentially more cost effective to create awareness, to drive trial. And so we were working on a lot of digital solutions maybe as we kind of rounded out 2019, right. We're like, okay, we can't continue to scale this demo program, it's not sustainable. So let's start to diversify. We'll continue to do it, but let's start to diversify into more digital media, make sure we can get more targeted, you know, and as long as we can identify who our end consumer is a lot more clearly, we can target them through the various digital platforms that they're utilizing every day. And so as the pandemic hit in early 2020, it just so happened that the timing for us was great. You know, we had already begun to abandon an only, you know, sampling as the main solution to our marketing strategy. And we had begun to create that uh, those digital solutions. And so when 2020 rolled around and all demos, all in store demos stopped, all large scale tasting events stopped just like that. You know, like we went from doing that so much to not being able to do any of it. Um, but we were able to pivot really quickly because we already were putting the plans in place and we were able to pivot our marketing spends to focus solely on more digital, uh, you know, more digitally focused marketing. And I think uh, that, I mean it really, that's when we really began to lean into uh, the digital age, uh, a lot more aggressively. And the timing of it again was just perfect. We kind of lucked out that our uh, that our internal plans aligned with the plans of the universe. Um, uh, when the pandemic hit, okay,

Speaker A: so you just shared with us that you were moving away from a food demonstration model because uh, there was diminishing returns, especially as you're growing the brand nationally. But maybe you could give us a better idea of what kind of digital solutions did uh, you rely on for Nanamu as you were changing your strategy Were you using advertisements on YouTube, Instagram? Flesh it out for us?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a lot of social media, a lot of Google, a lot of search engine marketing, uh, search engine optimization, a lot of uh, Instagram and Facebook ads. But more leaning toward Instagram because our user, our core demographic is really kind of in the 25 to 45 age range. And we have found that Instagram has kind of skews down in age as far as the user set goes. Um, so yeah, we began to really focus a lot of attention on those social media platforms on Google, on really finding out what search uh, terms uh, we could lean into to drive more traffic to our website, uh, and create ads for appropriately. We also started spending a lot of money on applications like Instacart. People were starting to move more into uh, doing digital shopping, shopping online or creating orders through some, you know, third party delivery service or platform. And so what's important for a company like ours, we're still very much in the early stage of the size, the size and scale of our business. It's important to spend marketing dollars as effectively as possible. We need to make sure that the money we spend um, is helping convert the consumer to that point of purchase. And so that's really what we, what we've leaned into. And of course once you get going, it's all about iterating through the trial and iterating through those consumer sets, um, to make sure that you're looking at um, your KPIs and your metrics of how efficiently you are reaching the right consumer and converting them to purchase or to trial.

Speaker A: Okay, so you actually made the switch from uh, food demonstrations to move towards more digital marketing. Um, what has the return on investment been like? Is it better? Is it about the same as food demonstrations? Are you able to give us a idea of what it has been like?

Speaker B: So I'm not sure I have, I don't have those metrics in front of me. But, but I would say, I mean it's, it's hard with digital. Right. I mean because it's hard to know exactly, um, what impressions or what clicks are turning into purchase. Um, unless you have a.

Speaker A: Okay, I understand. Because it's a situation where people don't actually directly buy from the advertisements.

Speaker B: Exactly. And we, we do have a direct to consumer business. Um, but in the frozen dessert category it's very small compared to some other categories where you have a dry shelf stable product where free shipping is very easy to come by. In the frozen dessert space, we don't have that. We don't have that luxury. And so it's a lot harder to determine what impressions uh, again or what ad clicks really convert to purchase. But, but it definitely, it's a much more scalable model and it's, it's a way to reach a much broader audience, a much more targeted audience. And so there is a little bit of it where you know, it's definitely a much scalable, much m, you know, more scalable model, much more effectively scalable. But at the end of the day it still is hard to put actual conversion uh, metrics to it if they're not specifically purchasing the product online.

Speaker A: Okay, so Daniel, can you give us an idea what proportion of ice ah, cream in the market today is actually plant based? Is it about 20%, 25%?

Speaker B: Oh, way smaller. Uh, we're, we're still way smaller. Yeah, we're still.

Speaker A: I thought with the um, other brands and companies popping up the proportion would have grown over the years.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's still, it's still a very, still a very small percentage here, here in the US Domestic markets, but specifically I, I know in other countries there might be based on you know, dairy uh, you know, dairy farming regulations and subsidies. Um, the plant based market have, might have greater market share. But, but here in the US it's still still uh, a very much m Smaller percentage than, than 20 or 30%. But we do believe that long term, uh, yeah, there, there are massive opportunities for, for non dairy products to begin to consume a much more significant piece of the overall frozen dessert market share.

Speaker A: Okay, so you mentioned that the main demographics of the consumers are between the age of 25 and 45, correct?

Speaker B: Correct.

Speaker A: Is that equally split between male and female consumers as well?

Speaker B: We are finding that it's a lot more skewed to female consumers. Um, for one female uh, consumers do a vast majority of the shopping for households. They usually make a vast majority of the household purchasing decisions when it comes to food and diet. And so we have always seen specifically for our product, um, we're more around like 70 female to 30 male. Um now we, we've been talking about that like is there, is there an opportunity right. To, to, to um, to go into the, the male consumption market a little

Speaker A: more making a dairy free ice cream more macho.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can we get Arnold Schwarzenegger to uh, you know to.

Speaker A: He is vegan now, right?

Speaker B: Promoted or so. Yeah, he's so I, I don't think he's vegan but he's a massive proponent of the plant based diet. Um, he, he's definitely big into consuming, uh, a lot more plant based, but I'm not sure. I don't think he's 100 vegan.

Speaker A: Okay, yeah, maybe not 100, but I know he focuses on uh, incorporating a larger proportion of his diet into the vegan diet.

Speaker B: Yeah, he, he uh, he actually ended up executive, being an executive producer and one of the main, one of the main funding backers for Game, which was.

Speaker A: Oh yes, that's the name of the documentary. Thank you for reminding me. Yeah, that was a very powerful film for me.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's big, it's powerful. A movie like Game Changers really showed and a lot of the athletes, whether you're a, you know, ufc, MMA fighter or a basketball player or a football player, uh, you know, a lot of athletes are swearing by the positive effects of the plant based diet for recovery, um, for you know, for general inflammation in the body and in the system, in our internal systems. And I think it's great. Like we, we have a, we have massive opportunities to, to create strides and uh, you know, in everybody's health and wellness and, and performance and, and that's, that's really, you know, that, that's what's pushing this uh, this lifestyle deeper into uh, deeper into the mainstream.

Speaker A: M. Okay, so to bring us back to the point on the demographics of the consumers, is it a worry or concern for you that you're not really uh, capturing ah, people outside the age of maybe 45 to 65 or maybe teenagers who enjoy sweets? What do you think about this?

Speaker B: So yeah, what we have found is that the right now still kind of the most influential consumer, um, is kind of or most influential consumer who also has some purchasing power, who has money and spends money Is in that 25 to 45 range. They tend to influence their parents and or grandparents. Um, and so it kind of goes up from there. They're kind of thought leaders in the, in the progression of lifestyle and general diet. And then the younger consumer, we're not really too worried about the younger consumer because that's the consumer that will grow up more than likely a vast majority of them will grow up never having had dairy in their lives. Like when, when you go younger, like when you go younger there's not a lot to sell them on. Um, they, they will have already begun to adhere to uh, you know, to these lifestyle changes. And I think we're just waiting for them to grow up and start making some money. Um, so that. Yeah, yeah, so that, yeah, so that they can be larger, larger consumers and supporters of the brand. Um, so yeah, I think really right now what we found is that's our sweet spot, 25 to 45. Not to say there aren't opportunities that go in either direction as far as targeting. But you know, we really think that that that demographic right now commands um, our focus and commands our attention and provides us a lot of opportunities up and down, um, to be you know, kind of the influencers, the thought leaders of, of uh, you know, of consumption practices. So that's kind of where we're focused right now.

Speaker A: Well, in fact that's fine. You don't have to actually uh, cater your message to everybody because uh, that's very hard to actually make it resonate with anyone at all. So how have you actually structured your existing marketing campaigns to really um, work well with your main demographics of consumers?

Speaker B: I mean we're still getting better, we're still getting better at all this. As I shared. I mean we rolled out a lot of our digital strategy in 2020. Um, so we're really only, we're only about two years into a lot of the iterations and findings. We found out that we were pretty light on, on some of our research, on some of our, our qualitative and quantitative research. So we have more recently begun to dive deeper into that deeper understanding of who these people are and how we can more effectively um, target them with uh, with the key messages of our brand. Um, and, and so I think this year and rolling into next year we're really excited about uh, about the insights that we will have gained from that set of consumers and, and make sure that we can do a better job of presenting who we are as a brand and the value and the differentiation that we um, you know, that, that we are um, bringing to the marketplace. There, there's a lot of competition out there. Right. There's a lot of, a lot of different products. As you were talking about, there's some big players. Magnum, you know, Ben and Jerry's Dryers, Briars, and they're all kind of coming up with their, with their non dairy options. Yeah. And, and we want to make sure that the consumer um, you know, knows that we, we were doing this before, um, you know, there were financial opportunities and financial benefits for massive corporations and we're an independently family owned company and uh, you know we, we care about the sustainability movement. We're not going to straddle the fence and do make dairy ice cream and non dairy ice cream, um, like a lot of these players are. And, and we want to make sure that that everybody understands why, um, why they should choose Nadimu instead of some of those other brands out there, um, who have more opportunistically entered the space.

Speaker A: All right, now let's talk about, um, the certifications that Nanomo has. I understand it's gluten free, is USDA organic, and it's also certified vegan. So what's the certification process like? And do you have to actually renew this certification every now and then?

Speaker B: It's there, there are annual renewals and, and we have annual audits from each of these certifying bodies. Um, there's a lot of testing that goes into, um, that goes into these certifications. Um, each one of the plants, the manufacturing plants that we work with also have to be working with these certifying bodies. And so there's, yeah, there's a lot of operational, um, uh, difficulty that kind of, or complexities, um, that come with wanting um, to hold ourselves to these standards. And you know, I think that's something that we're proud of because not everybody would um, be willing to, um, submit themselves to all of that oversight because

Speaker A: a product may actually be gluten free by me. Not be organic. Right?

Speaker B: Not. Not non gmo. Yeah, non GMO verified. I mean all of it.

Speaker A: I believe you're also Fair Trade certified.

Speaker B: We, we do have ingredients that are, that are Fair Trade certified, yes. Mhm.

Speaker A: And uh, based on my research, it's quite clear that Nadamu, uh, is very committed to making an impact for communities and the environment. Right?

Speaker B: Absolutely. And, and, and one other certification that we're especially proud of is, is our B Corp certification. Um, B Corp is, uh, you know, it stands for Benefit Corporation. And we are, uh, you know, we're, we're really at the, at the forefront of what we believe is a really important, impactful movement where kind, um, of, you know, people and purpose come before profits. Right. Like we, we are going to make decisions for the greater good over, you know, over the profitability. And I think this is a movement that will continue to gain steam, um, where, you know, people need to make decisions, um, that, where they know that they are supporting companies and brands that are operating for the greater good. And not a lot of companies are holding themselves to these standards. And again, as a small, you know, family owned entity, we've jumped into it and we are making sure that we continue to raise the bar on, on the standards of quality for all of our operation.

Speaker A: Right now let's take a small segue and talk about your own story of Nadapu. Now, I know you're not the founder of the company, but you eventually found yourself helming and leading it. So can you share with us how this happened?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I joined the company in 2008 and, uh, really just loved the product, loved the brand. The founder and I were just so aligned around all the, all the good that a product like Nadamoo could do in the world. Lower calories, lower sugar, non dairy, um, sweetened with agave nectar, a lower glycemic sweetener. We were just, we firmly believe that the future of the frozen dessert category was going to look a lot more like Nadamu than it did the more traditional options. And so, you know, I jumped on board early stage. I was fresh out of undergrad, um, and just, you know, fully was prepared to dive in headfirst and see how I could help, um, you know, build out some of the initial infrastructure of the company. And so, um, you know, started in accounting, started helping out in operations, just side by side with the founder and our production manager, M. We were a very small team and we were, you know, we were off and going, building some distribution, growing, you know, these little incremental gains, um, were made kind of year by year. And we got to 2011 and, um, we had kind of hit a hit, some growth stagnation. And really, I mean, sales weren't tracking anywhere near in line with some of the, some of the forecasts that were initially put in front of the investors. And as the investors were asking some difficult questions to the founder, um, the founder decided that she no longer wanted to be involved. She was burned out. She had created, uh, the recipe for the company in 2004, had already been at it for about seven years, um, and she was ready to step out. And so as you could imagine, um, that was a really scary moment, uh, in the history of the company. We really didn't know what we were going to do. We didn't know, um, at least it wasn't super apparent to me right off the bat, like, oh, like, we can, we can keep going without her. You know, like I. With there.

Speaker A: And this was a few years before you go into Whole Foods as well. So I guess it's a pretty dark period.

Speaker B: About. Yeah, this was about, this was about four years before we went national with Whole Foods. There was a lot. Still, there was a lot of uncertainty, um, as far as whether or not we, we were even a viable, you know, business solution for the marketplace. And, and um, you know, right around that time, I, you know, the, the options were kind of laid out in front of me, right. Uh, some of our investors, some of which were my family. My family had invested in the company in 2008. And the family kind of looked at me and was like, well, what do you want to do? You know, you, you kind of, you got us into this. Um, what do, what do you want to do? Like should we wind the business down? Should we start to, you know, should we start to prepare to shut down shop? Um, should we start looking for a buyer? Which at that, that wasn't a realistic solution. There, there weren't very many buyers for a company like ours, especially for the size that we were at that time. And the third option was keep going, you know, and, and, and I was faced with a very difficult decision. And, and I ultimately decided in that moment that um, I, I had learned enough about the business, about the operation, about the accounting, about, you know, a lot of the sales side, a lot of the early stage marketing practices. And I, I decided that I just, I, I care, I cared enough about the brand, I cared enough about the product and, and all of the good that we could do out there in the world, um, with it, as we scaled it that I decided to just keep marching on. And we did that. In 2011, I found myself at the helm of the company and kind of had uh, Like I was saying, not all of it was clear to me how we were going to get to where I knew we had the potential to get, but I knew that I wanted it and I knew that we had, you know, we had so many good things working for us as a product and as a brand and with some of our early retail partners that we just needed to find a way to create some additional sales momentum. And so yeah, ah, we were off and running in 2011 and uh, just continue to work on solving our everyday problems kind of one day at a time, um, to ensure that we could continue to uh, grow and get to a size and scale that would be, um, more, more valuable in, in the marketplace.

Speaker A: Okay, so it was definitely a very scary time for you during this period. And you know, most of the investors were actually your friends and family. So what did you say to them to convince them to stick with you during this difficult period?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, we, I, the, the business still needed operational capital. Um, so, so that was, yeah, I mean that, that was one thing that um, I, I definitely needed to reassure our, you know, the family investors that we um, could continue to operate in as lean a manner as possible. At the same time that we just began to Focus a lot more on, on sales. Right. We, we knew that we uh, we knew that we needed to hire the right broker, partners, um, the right salesperson to continue building out additional distribution. And that really became the focus we knew we had to create sales momentum, um, um, to generate the kind of revenue that would begin to make us a more profitable entity and more viable. And through that period we began to have some of our first um, profitable quarters and a lot of. We uh, began to create some significant sales growth that showed that we um, could continue to build um, and scale the company.

Speaker A: Were you at any point in time affected that the reason that caused the founder to leave would affect you and Nadamu as well?

Speaker B: Absolutely. I, I think that should always um, you know, like I'm not a. I, I wasn't a seasoned um, CPG executive. Right. I, I mean I'm effectively an entrepreneur myself. Um. Right. And so I think you have to be humbled to the fact that you um, might not be cut out for, you know, you might not be cut out for the business at each stage. And so yeah, I wanted to make sure that I could just take uh, it one step at a time and you know, kind of solve. Put my engineering background to work and make sure that each and every problem that popped up, we as a team, um, were working to create plausible effective solutions for. And I think that's really been my mo. The entire time is just kind of take it a day at a time. We iterate, we iterate create solutions, uh, perfect those solutions and that's really uh, how things have continued to evolve here at Nadimu for the past, for the past 11 years now.

Speaker A: Okay, so there were a lot of issues with the business at a point when you took it over and you mentioned that sales is one of the biggest ones. But apart from sales, what other pressing problems were there that you needed to solve?

Speaker B: Really just creating greater efficiency in our, in our operation. Like we. One thing that we found as a company, we had begun to manufacture our product in a much larger manufacturing facility than we were ready for. We weren't doing enough volume to be produced in the plant that we were uh, that we were being produced in.

Speaker A: And so do you actually own any of your own manufacturing facilities?

Speaker B: Yeah, we don't own any of our manufacturing facilities still. We outsource manufacturing uh, to what are called our co Packing partners. Um, but we were working out of a really large facility. Um, and what we were finding was that our production runs really just were nowhere near as efficient as they needed to Be because we weren't doing large enough runs in that facility. And so we really had a problem right off the bat where um, if we weren't careful and didn't scale, uh, to a big enough size and scale quickly enough, um, the efficiency of those runs, so much waste was being created, um, in some of those early days. And so that. That's again where the pressure was for us to uh, to build sales so that we could begin to have uh, more optimal manufacturing runs within our co packing facility.

Speaker A: Okay. From a CBG perspective, I guess, um, when you're working with a larger co. Ah, Packer, it's actually a lot less efficient when you're actually producing a smaller batch.

Speaker B: Right? Exactly. Exactly. When you're a certain size and scale, I mean it's really important to select a manufacturing partner that has the size of plant that will efficiently produce the quantities that you need produced at any given time. And so, um, yeah, I think that that was one of the early mistakes on, on, you know, the part of our operation was uh, maybe being a little too anxious to move into a larger facility to be prepared to scale much sooner than we needed to be there. Um, but I think, you know, in some ways it has helped too because it, it allowed us to develop a uh, a great relationship for a longer period of time that I think has served us really well um, later here in our. In our company life cycle. But I mean, yeah, I mean every, Every issue has its, its pros and cons. We also had some early issues with our formulation, um, where we were, um. We kind of before doing too many pilot trials early on because it's. It's expensive to do a pilot trial. We decided to begin to test some other coconut milks, um, that. That we, you know, that we had not, um, fully tested. They had the same.

Speaker A: So the chemistry was different even though it was.

Speaker B: Yeah, the same, the same spec sheets, the same fat percentages. Like everything looked the same on paper.

Speaker A: O. Even though they were of the same percentages, they work differently.

Speaker B: But, but, but when we put it. Yeah, when we put it into the product and you know, tried to run product at the facility, the outcome was very, very different.

Speaker A: Oh, I'm surprised.

Speaker B: So a lot of those. Yeah, a lot of those things were, you know, those were difficult mistakes that we made up front. They were costly. Um, they, they were costly. Especially in a world where, um, we were really only asking for funds for financing for the company when the company absolutely needed it. Right. So anytime you make a mistake, an expensive mistake, you know, you're going to need, you're going to need capital sooner than you, you would have otherwise. And so I think, you know, those were some of the early mistakes that we found ourselves in that were just, they were costly and. But those are some of the best lessons that we've learned and have made us be that much more of a, you know, careful operation where we maybe measure two times, measure three times before we cut once. And I think, uh, you know, it served us well as we've continued to uh, grow and scale. But you know, the challenges, the challenges are always, uh, are always there. They're new. You know, there's always new things we face. And I think that's a part of what I've enjoyed, you know, uh, throughout my stint in this industry is just the dynamic nature of it and having new problems to solve.

Speaker A: When uh, people are actually familiar with your product and they come to expect a certain taste or consistency, you can't just change that overnight. But uh, what really surprised me was the fact that even though you're keeping the variables that you're aware of like a fat percentage, you still had different uh, consistencies at the end of the day. And I know that, you know, if you actually had different fat percentages, you actually have to increase the amount of sugar. If a lower fat percentage do you get the same consistency, Am I right?

Speaker B: Yeah, but no, it turns out, chemist, the chemistry of it all is, is a lot more, uh, a lot more complex than what we thought too. I mean that, and those were uh, yeah, those were really interesting, uh, interesting things that we, that we ran into. We, we ended up running the product and we had to, we had to sell it through the market. You know, like we, we, we, you know, the product was good, it was good. It just wasn't as good as the product that we usually put out there in the market. It wasn't to the Naadamu standard. Um, but we didn't really have a choice. We weren't going to throw out the entire, you know, the entire batch of products.

Speaker A: Oh, what a waste.

Speaker B: Yeah, because we wouldn't. Yeah, yeah, waste, you know, waste is something that we weren't going to deal with. We weren't going to throw all that money down the drain and, and you know, produce new product with the, with the other tried and true milk. Um, so yeah, that was interesting. And we had, you know, I think we had an opportunity there too to, to really deepen our relationship with our customers through that period. There was a lot of feedback around what happened. What changed you Know, a lot of emails, a lot of, a lot of communication that came in from our customers and we decided to just, you know, to own it. We, we were transparent about it, let them know. I mean we tried, tried something new, you know, it didn't, didn't work out. But you know, please rest assured that, you know, that, that we'll be, we'll be back to our, our original form, you know, and the next production runs and just really thank them for their support. And, and we had to ride that.

Speaker A: In fact, those who actually bother taking time are the ones who are the most important customers because they care about the business enough to actually reach out.

Speaker B: And that's hard. Like as we look at what's going on right now in the market, right, the, the inflation, the, you know, the issue, the supply chain issues, everything that's going on right now. A lot of food companies have difficult decisions on their hands. How, how are they going to keep their margin strong enough, especially for companies of our size? Right. We're not, you know, we're not Unilever. We're not, you know, Procter and Gamble. We can't, um, you know, we, we, we don't have cash and cash on hand and years and years of profits to be able to help us ride out this wave like the, those, those inflationary pressures are a lot more real for the smaller companies like ours. And uh, and yeah, so if you need to make tweaks on ingredient inputs to, to try to uh, you know, to try to minimize the impact of price increases on your formulation. There's a lot of R and D testing going on around the, around the food and beverage space right now and everybody's just, everybody's trying to create solutions for the time because uh, yeah, the prices of everything are just, are increasing rapidly now.

Speaker A: Daniel, before we let you go, why don't you share with us what you are working on with Nadamu today that is exciting for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, we are really excited about new products. Um, we have been seen as a ah, coconut milk based um, frozen dessert brand. Right. Kind of since inception in 2005. But really we've always been excited about the fact that Nadamoo is just a dairy free plant based brand that has the ability to use any base or we can create any dairy alternative product even in different categories as we move into the future. Um, here in the shorter term we're really, we're still very much focused on the frozen dessert category but we look forward to launching new novelty products. You know, kind of doing frozen dessert products in another format outside of just the pint. Um, so, yeah, we're, yeah, we're working, we're working on that, um, and really look forward to sharing that with the, with the marketplace as soon as they're ready. That we're kind of all hands on deck. We're all kind of aligned on, um, getting these products prepared to launch as soon as possible. And we just, you know, for us, um, all the hard work, all the excitement, we do it for our customers. We do it because we want to, um, share best in class, um, non dairy frozen dessert products with the consumer and really beginning to, um, show that Nadamu can live outside the pint and can operate in other bases that aren't just coconut milk. I think that's, that's what has us really excited here in the near term. And, and as soon as those products are ready, we'll be, uh, we'll be making those announcements and.

Speaker A: Okay, so for your existing line of products, what is your favorite flavor?

Speaker B: So my favorite flavor has always been maple pecan.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, I love pecans. In fact, pecan pie is my favorite kind of pie.

Speaker B: I mean, I, I grew up eating pecan praline and uh, you know, like, those were some of my, some of my early also like a banana nut pecan praline, those types. And so for me, maple pecan, um, has always been that, that flavor for me. And it's also the first flavor that I ever tasted when I, the first time that I met the founder, um, and, and we were, you know, she was, um.

Speaker A: So there was the flavor that brought you into the business.

Speaker B: Flavor that sucked me in. It changed my entire life. I was product. I was listening to the founder kind of walk me through her pitch deck at the time. And I was sold. I, I just knew that I wanted to be involved. I knew that I wanted to help kind of build something from the ground floor. And uh, maple pecan has been the product that, that really, you know, turned me onto this brand. And, and for the past, uh, you know, 14 years, I, I've devoted quite a bit of time and energy to, to making sure that more and more people have the opportunity to uh, to taste it and try it and share it with friends and family and other people.

Speaker A: M. All right, Daniel, so give us one final call to action before we say goodbye.

Speaker B: Yeah, I really welcome everybody to try Nadamu. If you haven't already. Um, whether you are non dairy plant based or not, we do not discriminate. We have always, um, viewed ourselves as a gateway to a, ah, healthier dairy free plant based lifestyle. And if you love ice cream, you absolutely have to give us a try. It's, it's, it's for. We have formulated our product for ice cream lovers and we welcome you to, you know, our social media pages. Just look for Nadamoo, um, Nadamoo, go to our website, www.nadamu.com and I welcome you all to find out more about our brand, find out more about our company and what's important to us. And most importantly, just eat some ice cream and enjoy.

Speaker A: All right, Daniel, thanks for joining us today and sharing with us the ins and outs of Nadamu and the dairy free ice cream industry. It's been a real pleasure.

Speaker B: Ted, thanks so much. I appreciate you, uh, taking the time and look forward to continuing to stay in touch.

Speaker A: Hey guys, thanks for joining Daniel and me in today's episode. I hope you enjoyed yourself and you learned a little bit more about the plant based industry in America. All right guys, so that's all for today's show. Thank you so much for joining me today. So if you enjoyed today's show or if you learned this something, I'd love if you could leave an honest review on Apple podcasts or just share the show with a fellow entrepreneur who find this useful as well. Now that's all for me today. I'd love to see you again next time.