The Role of Social Media in Luxury Watches : Rolex, Patek, Audemars Piguet | AI in Business & Human Connections

Speaker A: The future is here, so let's make sense of it together. Welcome to the Sonia Barlow show, the place for real conversations on lifestyle, technology and the future of work that keep us connected and informed. This week we are discussing the luxury watch market and building business relationships with Sam Rayner of Chronohunter. Be sure to share your thoughts online by tagging Onyabalayuk across socials. And let me know if you have any questions by sliding into our DMs. Sam. Hi, how are you doing?

Speaker B: Hi, Sonia. Very well, thank you. Thanks. Thanks for having me on the show.

Speaker A: No, of course. I mean, it's a Monday morning and this is the first thing that we're really getting into. Have you been thinking about your business all weekend or did you get time to switch off?

Speaker B: Um, yeah, good question. A bit. A bit of both, really. I've got two young boys, so they tend to keep me busy. But there is, there's definitely periods throughout the weekend where I'm, uh, speaking to Max, my business partner, about, about the business and what our plans are and. Yeah, that sort of things tends to be most weekends.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. I mean, there's a saying, right? You people want to leave their 9 to 5 for the business, lifestyle and entrepreneurship. Um, but actually you're working 24 7. And I think, unfortunately, social media doesn't really help that. Cause it really hinders the reality of what look, you know, building a business looks like. And I definitely want to get into your business side of things. So for anyone who doesn't know what is Chrono Hunter and what is your part in the building of the business?

Speaker B: So ChronoHunter is an online marketplace where private individuals come to us who are looking to buy or sell a luxury watch. Uh, we have a large network of reputable, uh, luxury watch retailers that we built relationships with over the years, since 2017 when we started the business. So, uh, uh, for example, a customer will come to us and say, I'm looking to sell this watch. They want an idea on what the value should be. Um, we will look at the market, understand where the price point should be, and then we'll put that out to the market and make sure they get multiple offers from reputable retailers to ensure they're getting a fair price. So a good example of this one, I like to make reference to a customer came to us with a Patek Philippe 5711. It was a special one with a Tiffany stamp dial. He was looking for 50, uh, thousand pounds. Think he purchased it years before that. Uh, for $20,000. Around about that mark, um, we priced it out. We hadn't done a lot of these, these watches as you can imagine it was quite, quite a rare one. Um, and we got him multiple offers, the best of which was £90,000. Um, so he was pretty happy. Um, the retailer is pretty happy because they still had their margin in to sell that watch on. Um, and it obviously got him a lot more than what he was expecting and perhaps what he would have got if he walked into a shop and, and asked them for £50,000.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean that's mad. And who doesn't like the protect Philippe? I mean what, what is your background? Have you grown up with a lot around a lot of watches? Have you um, kind of learned on the job? I've always found it super interesting how someone gets into not just business but you know, from your business model it's luxury business or at least high value items. Um, so what is your background?

Speaker B: Yeah, so with watches, I mean I've always had an interest in them. Um, from, from the younger days. I mean looking back some of the watches that I wore were quite questionable. Often just sort of look for, look at the color of them and match them into what I'm wearing. Sort of progressing on um, from that I was, I was just sort of interested in watches. See is the idea if you're, you know you, you hit a milestone and you, you purchase yourself a watch to um, mark that milestone and one you can, can look back on. I was sort of like the idea of that um, when I purchased my first watch, uh, a friend of mine was actually more of an enthusiast and, and sort of had more knowledge than I did around it. So I was quite interested to know. After I purchased one he told me I could have got you this for a much better price. Um, and I'd purchased it directly from a um, like a Rolex authorized dealer. So I was quite surprised to hear that that was, that was even possible. Um, but it opened my eyes to sort of shopping around such and making sure that you are getting the best deal. Um, this friend was also sort of buying and selling on the side a little bit and um, unfortunately that, that ended quite badly where he was selling a watch to someone and, and ended up getting, getting defrauded. It was on a sort of open to the public marketplace, um, where he was selling a high value watch and ended up with an envelope with £250 notes either side and a lot of paper in the middle. Um, so that was a bit of an eye Opener. Um, and it sort of made us think about the idea of, you know, a marketplace where, where consumers and private individuals are protected from, from that side of things. Because I think it does happen quite often more than like to, like to think. So the idea of Chrono Hunter came about sort of after that where it's helping private individuals sell a watch, but they only sell it to reputable retailers. Um, and they have multiple offers so they can ensure they're getting um, a great price. And in my, my business partner Max, he'd always been into watches and people knew that and always asked him look, I'm looking to buy this, can you, can you help me? And um, he would always pick. He sort of built up a bit of relationship with retailers already. Um, so we came together and came up with the idea. We didn't want to compete with other sort of big marketplaces and have the same concept of just simply sort of allowing everyone and anyone to buy and sell watches on the platform. Uh, so that's how we sort of came up with Krona Hunter. And um, yeah, so we've grown. So it's 2017, um, and we've since in our first year we did just over £1.6 million worth of watches. I think we're now over over £55 million worth of watches. So going in the right direction. Um, yeah, that's where we are today.

Speaker A: Having done some of the, some of the research, you know the luxury watch resale market is a growing industry. Um, apparently, and I say approximately and apparently it's valued from 20 to 26 billion in 2024 and projected to grow over 45 billion by 2030. It's growing faster than the primary market and it definitely did experiences boom during the pandemic. Having looked into the why, from my understanding the primary motivation for many buyers around 44% is a more affordable price than the primary market. What do you find is the motivation behind some of your customers? Because you know, you've spoken about the amount of revenue you've, well, you've spoken about the amount of watches that you've been able to kind of sell. Um, it being in the millions of course, but you're still talking about high ticket items. Right. The average watch probably starts at uh, what, a 5k, a 10k and goes up to 100k, 500k depending on which brand, which model, which year and which lifestyle you want to approach.

Speaker B: Yeah, so we, we transact every, anything from like um, a thousand pound sort of around about the lowest value and then it goes up to watches in the hundreds of thousands. Um, and just, I mean there's so many different examples of why people are purchasing watches. Some people are just buying them because they like them and it's just a consumer item. Um, and then some customers are actually buying them as an asset class, as investment pieces.

Speaker A: Do you think the Internet has helped or hindered the. Not just your business per se, the luxury watch, uh, resale market, but also the perception of these items. So a Rolex is probably a great one for many of us it's a, um, for better terms, it's kind of your starter watch into this lifestyle before maybe you go to a Patek or you go to an apartment. What is your kind of general consensus over the last, what you've been working now in this space for at least eight years?

Speaker B: Um, it's definitely amplified knowledge, like consumer knowledge on different brands. And um, we, we have like an arm to the business where we focus on content and uh, sort of educating our readers on the website as well. And we know that sort of the lower end of the market, um, has definitely had a, had a boom as well as the sort of the middle. And the higher end is sort of across the board really where people are interested in watches more. Um, you've had like, collaborations like um, Amiga and Swatch, um, which, I mean they had queues of people outside the shops trying to buy them. Um, so I think with socials it's definitely amplified interest in, in watches. Um, we've certainly seen that.

Speaker A: I see on your website and on your Instagram example it says Richard, Millie or Patek Philipp. And it's interesting that there's also a this or that in this, um, in this marketplace. And a lot of, I would say my watch, um, knowledge has actually not just come from the Internet, but it's come from music and mainstream media. Um, especially when you hear it in song lyrics and you hear it in lifestyle pieces. With that being said, my, I'm a graduate in the business and finance world, so, you know, when I used to go into the office and I'm talking 10 years ago, there was a real statement that especially a lot of men were making with their suits and their rollies and, you know, their ties and their three pieces and the way that they walked into these kind, um, of business and, and financial discussions. But back then you could go into a shop and buy a piece quite easily. Now there's obviously weight lists and there's queues and there's a level exclusivity to it. Do you think that's added to the perception of the market. Or do you think that's why people are moving into resale? Because actually it's harder to get it from a mainstream store?

Speaker B: Yeah, there's definitely, I mean it's supply and demand. You've, you've got some of these um, more popular high end brands producing very small numbers for, for a global market. So you've got like Patek Philippe. I think it's about uh, I mean don't quote me on this. It might be about sort of 90,000 watches or could be about that um, for a global market. So there's a huge demand and supply difference um, there. And you know the pre owned market fills a gap. When we first started there was, it was, it was sort of referenced as the gray market or it was referenced as the gray market where it was frowned upon uh, for pre owned watches. Um, but now you've got like, you've got Rolex themselves who have an authorized sort of pre owned department and they now sell pre owned watches. Um, Bouchera, you know, do the same. They've got a pre owned watch department. It's becoming a massive part of their business. It's, I mean you can compare it to, to sort of like the luxury car market as well. Like um, Porsche wouldn't not sell their older models of cars. So now sort of the watch market has become like that as well where you have these big brands that are happy to sell pre owned watches that are no longer in production anymore. So it's sort of come together a bit in the, in the term that we've been in business. Um, but on your point on the um, the interest and sort of the social element as well, there was, that drives um, that drives interest. Uh, there was an example recently where Taylor Swift had a certain Cartier watch. Um, she was wearing it and then, and then the market just reacted and that watch was suddenly very much in demand. Prices were climbing and you just couldn't, couldn't buy them. Um, so there is that element that drives the market as well.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean with the rise of social media and celebrities and just eyes on screens you can definitely see that they, it's transformed the market but also how you do business. And with that being said, one key part of this discussion that I really want to touch on is how has your business model um, and your business partnerships shifted with the introduction of AI and possible technology in your supply chain now? I wouldn't say AI is news for anyone listening. It's not new. It's been around but we have seen the growth and rapid growth of using artificial intelligence, be that for agents or operations or personalization, in the last, what, four to eight years now. So it'll be really interesting just to get your views on how you as a business and the landscape has shifted with the introduction of AI.

Speaker B: Yeah. So technology in general plays a big part in our business. That's sort of where we are. An online platform, we're a marketplace. Um, the idea initially when we set out was that we would have this platform, um, customers would come on and buy and sell with our network of retailers, um, and we really wouldn't have sort of much in the way of communication and conversation with the customers. But it didn't really turn out that way. We quickly realized that in this market you need an element of, um, connection and relationship building and that really does play a big part. So with us it's more of like a, uh, you know, with the AI and any sort of tech, it just sort of enables us to do our job more efficiently and focus on the important parts that can't be done via technology, which is, you know, building relationships and communication and, and that sort of thing. But, um, with the data and sort of creating a smooth process that's visible for a customer, that's where the technology helps us a lot. And we are looking at um, ways in, where we can introduce more AI, where we can look at pricing. Because one thing that is important to us is making sure that we give an accurate, um, price to customers and that tends to move with the market. So it can be like we mentioned before, due to popularity, it might be that their watch is worth one price one week and the next week it's worth, um, more or it could be less. Um, the data will help us in giving a sort of more of a real time, accurate, um, approach to the pricing, which will help us uh, and you know, we're always looking at the tech and how that can help us um, improve the efficiency of our service.

Speaker A: Yeah, and I'm really glad that you've uh, kind of raised that point. It's refreshing. Look, LinkedIn has already told us that relationship building is a key skill for the future. We are seeing more and more research come out to say, look, uh, AI is not necessarily going to take your jobs, but it is going to be a strategic partner and it's not necessarily a replacement for humans or human craft ship. So when you think about business networking and relationship building, which you've touched on, how do you create and maintain those relationships? Is it cold calling Is it warm emails? Is it whining and dining people, which was very much, you know, pre pandemic. That was the way to roll.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What are your top tips? Because we get so many questions from people asking about relationship building, especially when you now have to compete in the digital era.

Speaker B: Um, I think there's a lot to say about just doing what you say you do and providing value. If you provide a value to another, ah, business as such or to a customer, then you naturally build a level of trust and it's sort of consistency in that where you do quite simply do what you say you're going to do. Um, when it comes to sort of meeting retail, meeting our partners and customers, we do try and incorporate an element of that as well. So we have, we do host some events. Um, we've started, started like a wheels and watches event that we do annually now over the last couple of years where we get to meet people face to face. Um, and with our sort of business partners, um, um, we are trying to meet them, you know, whether it be just for a coffee or for a lunch because, um, that's always a good thing to strengthen a relationship. Um, we're all busy so it is quite difficult to do that. Um, but I think in terms of sort of building and having that strong network, it does come a lot to do with providing each other with value, um, and sort of being consistent with that.

Speaker A: Um, do you remember a possible business relationship networking me that went wrong either for you or you were uh, approached incorrectly or not in a relevant way. Because we hear a lot of success stories, but I find that the failure stories or the mistakes are the ones that we can really learn from.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I think that's a, that's a good point. You know, you, you learn more from your mistakes than you do from, from your successes. I mean just off the top of my head I can think of one that sort of stands out. Right at the beginning of, of, of when we, when we set up the company, we had a meeting with a, a retailer who had been in business, luxury watch retailer, had been in business for many years. And um, and sort of um, we, we introduced a couple of customers and then there was a conversation around how they could help us and help us grow and, and it, and it more sort of focused on you need us more than we need you. And, and you know, you'd be stupid not to, to uh, work with us. Um, and funnily enough that, that retailer when, when we first started out they, they had um, it was an offer that came across, and then, and then they tried revising it for no, no reason. And then sort of, we. We just didn't like the way things were going, so we made the decision to stop working with them pretty much immediately after. After the first transaction. So I think that could be one, that. One that sort of goes down as how not to approach things, because I think it always needs to be mutual as to, like, respect that we can bring something to the table and someone else can bring something to the table, not just, you know, um, put in your position as you need us more than we need you. Um, that kind of. That kind of backfired, I would say.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that also kind of leads into the ethics and integrity of relationship building. During the pandemic, we were online and we're virtual. And so even this recording is now virtual, which is nice that you can create relationships from the Internet via email, wherever you are. But we've seen a lot of, uh, conferences go back in person, events go back in person. And I find it really jarring. I get a lot of professionals who just come and don't even ask you how you are or what's your name or make any kind of small talk. Their first response is, what job do you have for me? The second is, how can you help me? And I've been doing some research, and, you know, Harvard Business Review says that the best way to build relationships and to network is, like you've suggested, understand what the problem is, come with a solution. But 70% of the time you're listening and 30% you're talking. Um, so I'm not saying everyone needs to do small talk, but there's definitely an element of, we need to be, uh, more cautious of the way that we're approaching these conversations because it does leave a bad taste in your mouth. Have you seen your industry go back in person? And I guess my question being is, have you seen a shift in the reality when it comes to relationship building in person versus the kind of digital landscape?

Speaker B: Yes, with our business, there was definitely a shift to people being more willing to do business not in person. So I'd say prior to sort of the COVID scenario, uh, people wanted to, you know, if you sold a watch or you're buying a watch, you would need to be there more often in person. Um, whereas when. When that sort of shift happened, people were, uh, you know, happy to send their watch out in the post, um, via, like, an insured courier. Um, and that is commonplace now. Um, so I would say there's been a Shift, um. Um. And then like you've mentioned, there is kind of a shift back, but not all the way back. So there. It's more of like a medium ground now where some people want to be in person and transact in person and a lot of people would actually prefer not to because they know that it's a lot more. It's a lot easier and a lot more efficient if they just um, you know, put it in the post or receive it in the post. And um, as long as it's insured and they have that in place and that peace of mind, then they're happy to do so. Um, but yeah, we mentioned. I mean, um, sometimes I'm sort of um, guilty of cutting small talk as well, which I try and sort of acknowledge and sort of improve upon because, um, it sort of. It can sometimes be a bit transactional and you forget the pleasantries of good morning, how are you doing? And sort of the understanding that you are sort of dealing with real people. Um, so. But I think that's really important to sort of have the understanding and relationships and. And um. Yeah, build, build a relationship and. And uh, uh, a positive one as well as doing business.

Speaker A: Of course. And do you predominantly work in the UK market?

Speaker B: Yes. So we're in the uk. Um, but we are. Our plans are to expand. We have done some transactions in the US market and we've. We've transacted in Europe as well. But it does tend to be, um, recently. So because we, we're the way. The business that we are, where we don't handle any watches, we don't handle stock, um, we are just a, uh, say just. We are the middleman in the, in the um, transaction we're able to help customers like for example in the US find the best deal and introduce them to a retailer in the US as well. So that's something that we will expand into. And other markets like the UAE as well, we're looking at. Um. But at the moment it's. It's predominantly the uk. Um, we're trying to refine and make sure that we have all of our processes correct before we, we expand. And so we can do that more efficiently.

Speaker A: And so with that in mind, one thing as an example I found in the US versus the uk, just in terms of wider business and Hustle was especially New York compared to London. New Yorkers were just on it. They said they were going to do something. And you made a great point earlier about following up. They followed uh, up and they committed. Whereas in the UK especially In London as an example, people like, oh, we'll get back to you. We'll figure out when our calendar makes sense. There's a little bit more of a slower, less, um, kind of, uh, less let's do it right now mentality. But then when you compare it somewhere like the Middle East. I expanded our business in the Middle east last year and found that a lot of that has to come from the ground up. You have to be in person, you have to create those business relationships. You have to build trust and let people know who you are if you want your products to be sold or at least your business to grow. Have you found any differences in the way that you are building out or thinking about building out your business model across these different, um, kind of global hubs.

Speaker B: Yes, I mean it's definitely. We've seen the same, We've noticed that, uh, I mean we've got some great business partners in the uk, we've got some strong relationships, but, um, even some of those, it was very, very difficult to start. I think there is a bit of a sort of a mentality difference sometimes in the UK where if, if you're, if you're approaching, um, a business and you want to work with them, sometimes they feel like it's. You're, they're very hesitant, I would say, to, to, to move forward with that and they feel that there might be a catch like, as to why you want to work with them or you may be benefiting more than they are. Um, but, you know, so it tends to be a more slow, slow and steady approach of starting a relationship, showing value, um, and then that trust gets built up over time. Um, whereas in other markets, you know, I've sat down with, with a luxury watch retailer in the UAE and Dubai, um, and they were the sort of. The introduction process was complete opposite. It was more like, yeah, that sounds absolutely great. You know, we'll be happy to work with you. Come sit down, let's have a coffee and, and talk about how we can, how we can get started. Um, so there is a difference in approach and I'd say a difference in, in mentality for different markets.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's super, super interesting. What is, what is your favorite watch and why? I mean, I, you know, I want to get into it personally. I've recently started my journey down the Rolexes, really enjoying them, but obviously for women there's kind of one max, two real pieces that you can buy from a Rolex. And I often find that I just love the watch so much in terms of Both investment as an asset, but also just something that you can wear every single day that I'm now shifting and I'm like, right, once you've bought a Rolex, what's that next? Um, kind of, you know, how are you going to climb that ladder slowly and what comes next? So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at in my headspace. But I'd love to know what, what is your favorite watch and, uh, where, where should someone maybe start their journey?

Speaker B: Um, I would say, I mean, first of all, my, my favorite watch is a patek Philippe Aquanaut 5164A. And the reason being is it's sort of a bit understated. It's on a rubber strap. Um, you know, it's from one of the most renowned watchmakers in the world. Um, but it's still, you know, if you're in, in a room, in a conversation with that watch on, the people, if they're into their watches, will know what it is. Um, and I just like the watch really. It's a bit sporty. You could wear it to the gym, you can wear it with suit. Um, you've got a dual time function on there. So if you're traveling, you can keep it, keep a track of your home, home country time and where you are. So it's, it's, it's functionable. Um, and also because of, it's a very, it's demand. There's demand there for that watch. It tends, it has tended to go up in value. So it kind of ticks all the boxes for me. Um, I think it depends with people sort of starting out, it depends on what are the motivations behind buying a watch. Whether it's just something you like and you want to enjoy it. Then I'd say just go with whatever you like. It doesn't really matter of the brand and sort of and that sort of thing. It's just personal preference. Um, but then if you are sort of, if you do have an element of looking at it as an investment piece, then, um, you know, Rolex and Audemars, Pigeon and Patek, um, Philippe are see the most, um, sought after and most popular brands and do tend, if you buy them at the right price, they do tend to go up in value.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's super, super helpful. And you know, we could talk about watches for days.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker A: and I definitely think that a lot of people at the start of their journey and so if you are listening, you know, some things that I've learned from this discussion already is understand your why, why are you getting into the watch market? Um, and are you buying something for a resale piece, investment piece, or just because you have some disposable income and you're treating yourself. But if you're also building a business, be that in the luxury watch market, retail space or generally when you are uh, thinking about building a business, you have to do your homework. You have to build those business relationships and maintain your trust and credibility, which is really important. And with the introduction of AI and the rapid growth of AI shifting business models, it's about thinking of artificial intelligence as a strategic partner that's going to help you grow and build something more sustainable than you know, a uh, tool that's going to necessarily take your job. Sam, my. As we start to kind of wrap up, I'd love to know what is your advice for people who are thinking of a career change or to start their own business? I mean the stats tell us that four in five people want to start their own business. At least 40% of 40 year olds are now thinking of a career change. Do you have any broader tips that you can share with us?

Speaker B: Um, I think you mentioned at the beginning that with sort of starting your own business it can sort of be painted, um, as in a sort of uh, what's the phrase? Is it sort of a rose colored picture? Is that the phrase? Or. I'm not sure, but it's a lot more difficult than, than what sort of some, some make it out to be. My advice would be sort of make sure that you are sort of passionate about what you do because there will be a lot of times where you do think to yourself why am I doing this? You'll work more hours than you, than you would do. Sort of. Um, again you mentioned before, it's not a 9 to 5, it's a, it's a 24 7. Um, and then also, I mean I'd say however long you expect something to take, probably double it or even more. And that's probably more accurate representation of how, how something, how long something would take. Um, and just being consistent, you know, if you, if you're providing a good service and you're confident with what you're doing and you're getting good feedback, I'd be consistent with it, but not stuck in your ways where you're not, um, happy to pivot if the need be. So I'll give an example of that is when we originally set out on a business model of having a monthly subscription, um, we quickly realized that wouldn't work um, and in order to scale the business, we had to change that. Um, so we sort of pivoted in that time. Um, same with sort of when Covid came about, it was looking at how can, how can we make it, um, make this work differently. So we had to change certain things at that point. So I think keep your goal where, where it should. You know, keep your goal in mind, but be happy to be flexible in, in your approach.

Speaker A: Yeah, no such sound advice. What is your prediction for the future when it comes to the marketplace in which you work as a business, the industry that you're in, be that the luxury watch marketplace or the resale marketplace?

Speaker B: Um, quite optimistic about the luxury watch market overall. I think, um, the advance of technology is something that we're very excited about, of how we can do our job more efficiently and serve more customers more efficiently. Um, so that's something we'll be focusing on a lot in the coming years. Um, and I'm quite optimistic. There's a lot of interest around watches and, um, uh, we're happy to be in this marketplace and we're positive and we think it will be a growing market.

Speaker A: Awesome. And so at the beginning, I kind of informed you that we really want a place for real conversations on lifestyle, technology and the future of work that keep us connected and informed with the future being here. Is there anything that you feel we've missed out or that you would like to provide as your final comments as we start to wrap up?

Speaker B: Um, I would just say, I mean, we've touched on a lot, we've covered a lot. I think it's been quite comprehensive. Um, I would just say with AI, like you mentioned before, I don't think it will be a replacement. I think it will be a tool in order to enable us to be more efficient. And it already is. Um, I don't think anything will replace sort of a relationship and that's something that you can't, um, AI. AI won't. Won't replace. Um, so I think it's just about using everything to our advantage and doing the things that we can do with it and sort of everything else we double down on.

Speaker A: Awesome. So, Sam, thank you so much. How can people stay connected with you? Where, where can they find you and more about your business?

Speaker B: So the website is www.kronahunter.com. um, so people can reach us on there and then we are at Krona Hunter on Instagram. Um, that's where people can find us.

Speaker A: Thank you, Sam, for joining us and giving his insights on the future of work, the future of technology in the luxury watch market space and also if AI is going to take our jobs or shall it be used as a strategic tool? We've learned so much on this show already. If this episode resonated screenshot it tag me Onnybalayuk. Tell me your biggest insight or share it with a friend you've been listening to the Sonia Barlow Show. We are re kicking and restarting our series to make sure that we all can stay connected and stay inspired. So thank you.