Will AI Replace Human Connections? | Business Networking, Mentorship, Women in Technology, Leadership

Welcome to the Soviet Show. Very excited for this conversation. As some of you may know, I am writing a book and who knows, by the time you're listening to this, it might have already come out. It is a non fiction business book with Bloomsbury International Publishing and for the premise, I have been scouring the Internet for researchers and academics and contributors. So when I started learning about concepts around business networking and human connections and the future of technology, immersed with leadership and transformation management, I was able to come across the work that Suzanne was doing who is an affiliate professor at the London Business School and advisor to business leaders worldwide. I'm not going to give more of introduction because she is on the call and the, and the conversation with me. So for the next half an hour or so, we're going to have a really enlightened conversation back and forth around business networking and very much democratizing access and then let's see where it takes us. So thank you so much for joining this discussion. You're welcome, Sonia. It's great to be here. So we've been connected for a couple of months now. And a big part of that was again, as I mentioned, I enjoyed reading your research around business networking several years ago. And I wanted to reach out to make sure that we're incorporating real studies and research. And you know, we're designing, we're designing content that really makes sense. And that was only like 2024 and sorry, 2025 and now it's 2026. But can you take me through when you first started doing research around the topic of business networking and how you've seen that develop over time? Let's see, we'll go back quite a ways because one of the things I like to connect is networking and mentoring. I mean, we often network to find people who are informally or even formally mentors. So I've done quite a bit of research and mentoring. And one of the things that I would say going back 30 years, in fact, is that most people who are successful in their careers and in life have had not one, but multiple mentors. And they change throughout their career because what we need, what we're missing, what those gaps are, will inevitably change over time. And so one of the things that makes a lot of sense and the research tells us is again, more is better than fewer. To have these people in your network, these mentors, these guides, these sounding boards. And diversity is important too. You don't want to have you copy and pasted 20 times. You really want people who have experience in different fields, whose cultural background is different from yours, whose training and expertise is different from yours so that you have a better way of seeing how your work, your ideas, fit into these various and global contexts. Sorry, I paused. That's so interesting. It's super interesting. It just got me thinking about that concept of, you know, kind of friend, acquaintance, mentor, sponsor, coach, and all the various characters that do exist. One thing that I found in our research, and I can't quite reference who said this, where the research came from, but in short, they said the best people to really open those doors and to help you get to that next stage are not your best friends. The friends of your best friends, they're the people that are unlinked because they have nothing to lose, and they have nothing that they feel like they are competing with you against. And then the secondary point was that person who is a mentor to you, somebody who is invested in your learning, invested in your growth, invested in making sure that you do better, which is very different to a sponsor. So somebody who's in the room and actually, you know, cheerleading you to some extent. Um, how. How have you personally found the roles of a friend of a friend versus a mentor versus a sponsor help or hinder your progress? You know, it's. It's really hard to definitively say, you know, you've got a mentor, a sponsor, a friend, et cetera. Sometimes they cross boundaries. Right, right. So, you know, again, you asked a little bit about the research. Two major categories of help that mentors provide are from a career perspective. Right. Giving you specific career advice, making introductions, et cetera. And the other is more of the friendship kind of friendship. And different mentors will provide different levels of both of those kinds of support. And so if the mentor that you are thinking of right now is this, step ahead, boss, or somebody who is a senior person and you're. Or a different organization, the kinds of questions you ask, the kinds of help that you're looking for, are going to necessarily be different. The other thing about closeness, you know, and this is really important, people often think, oh, well, my best friend, this is great because they know me well. That's true. But sometimes when they know you well, they don't always offer the best advice. Case in point, hey, my organization just asked me if I'd be willing to lead a new branch of our organization in Malaysia. Well, they're your best friend. They don't want you to go away. They may not say, oh, that's a fantastic idea. They may be even unconsciously saying, is that really what you want to do? So sometimes closeness is not your best friend. But to your point, you somebody who is at least a step beyond your nearest link, if you will, they may have a more open mind about what might be good for you, what are opportunities that might help you. And again, as you balance those ideas, that insight across the many people in your network, you can decide what is the best advice for you in moving forward. And with the rise of technology, social platforms, even artificial intelligence, how do you think that we are changing the way that we build and bridge human connections and deep relationships? Because what you've touched on is mentorship and you know, potentially even that step ahead, which is sponsorship and the step before which is kind of the business acquaintance, but really a good or great mentor is somebody that you possibly know in person, that has understood you, where you have a little bit of face time, where they understand probably your intentions. And there's a plan, which is what we very much recommend through the network that we run is there's no form of mentorship, which is speed mentorship. I don't agree with that personally. It needs to be a set plan over a time period with a clear goal. And then if you achieve that, awesome. And then you go to that next phase. But it needs to be reversed if somebody has to have, you know, a shared interest. And we've therefore built that online through meetings and training and continuously kind of having that conversation. But the best mentorship has happened in, in person. But with that being said, you now have AI mentors, you have technology and social platforms telling you something slightly different. And I, I don't know if I agree with it or disagree with it. Well, something you said, I'm not sure I fully agree. You said the best mentors are in person and you contrasted that with AI mentors. There's something in between the fact that we have easy access via social platforms and WhatsApp and texting and email means we have no borders. So if you really want to talk with somebody in Shanghai, there's really nothing preventing you from doing that. And you can have, and I have research in this respect as well, you can have a wonderfully open, vulnerable, deep conversation with someone over a video call that is just about as good, just about as good as a face to face with coffee. So, you know, 15 or 20 years ago, most networking was that, right? You meet somebody at a conference or a convention and hey, let's have a coffee. Or you know, you meet sitting next to somebody on a plane and, and now the opportunities are endless as to how you can connect with people. And sometimes you do just that, Sonia. You meet with somebody online and then, hey, guess what? You're going to be in town, let's get together in person. So I just want to expand that notion of where your mentors might not only come from, but how you might nurture those people in your network. As far as what I think is really important is for, first of all, knowing kind of what it is that you're looking for, what kind of advice or insight or support or access, right? And think about to your point, like, what is the difference between sending some stranger an email and developing a relationship? And that has to do with that human connection? And so there we could talk about this. How do you foster that human connection, whether or not you're sitting three feet across from the person you're having a conversation with? Does that help? It does. But I would, I would argue to some extent that, yes, we have democratized borders and yes, we're able to access new worlds and new people and new perspectives. I mean, take this conversation, for example, right? From a lit review to a cold email to a conversation that we've now successfully had after months of planning, that is somebody, you know, you are somebody that I've now connected with, added to my network, and hopefully will bring learnings, lessons, opportunities moving forward. At the same time, though, the fact that we can access people, and I spoke about this earlier with Paroma Chatterjee from Revolut, the CEO of India. Revolut also means that maybe we're being unfair and being lazy and we're just messaging people for the sake of it. Not really doing the deep work, not really getting to know them, not really understanding what the value exchange is. So let's use artificial for an example. And again, controversially, I don't need everyone to agree, right? I follow accounts online where they will say something along the lines of networking is dming a hundred people a day using this CRM tool and AI conversation and seeing who gets back to you, you. I don't think that's true. I don't want somebody to randomly email me and it's cold and they haven't done the research and it's not, it's not thought out. But that's what it's becoming. It's gone from, hey, here's a mentoring relationship so that we can support one another grow to we don't really need mentors, we need speed mentors. And it's going to be slow. You're just going to be fast and transactional. Then it's, well, a network used to be A group of people or a community of shared goals that can support you. And now it's just cold DMS using an AICRM tool. Because what we're trying to do is increase the number of people that are connected with us versus really trying to build those deep human connections. So there is, there is something in between to say yes, tech has made it more accessible, but it's also made it, it's also slightly, to some extent possibly made it less meaningful. You know, so I, I loved when you said there's something in between and I, I couldn't agree more. I think the way I like to use these platforms is to find in a more efficient way potentially like minded people and then reach out to them in a more human way. So I think that, you know, in the same way, online dating, for example, has never been bigger. I mean, I forget what percentage, but it's a non insignificant percentage of people getting married today who actually met through some online platform. There's eight plus billion people in the world. So how you can efficiently narrow down the field to people who you are interested in, whether romantically or professionally, is a great first step. But, but to then using your example, send out a hundred AI generated texts and see who responds. That certainly wouldn't be my modest operandi that that's just not me. And I think one of the other things I'll share with you in terms of my research so along the lines of the democratization that these social media platforms and whatnot have created opportunities for, we have all this gig work, whether it's Airbnb or Uber or Lyft or whatever it is. And so as somebody who early in my career studied work, family conflict and well, part of that was having twins in the middle of my PhD program. So I was experiencing it. So 20 plus years later I thought, isn't it interesting how many people are flocking to this gig work which, whether full time or part time or which is facilitated by technology, is it better or is it just different? And this thing, this, this conflict that we have between our professional roles and our personal roles, is it any better or is it a whack a mole effect where you have some things that are better, but those gophers, you know, pop up in different places. So I actually did some research with about 140 Airbnb hosts and what I found, Sonia, is that for people who are in this, you know, primarily technology facilitated medium and working solo, there is more social isolation, more loneliness. And the experience of that isolation and loneliness actually is correlated with Greater actually work, family conflict, but also with lower life satisfaction, lower mental well being, and when that happens, more interest in leaving that form of work. It's a lot to unpack there, but I just thought I would share that in my research. No, that, and that's why we wanted to have a discussion with you because it's cool you're doing the groundwork, but you're also aware of what's happening in the world. I mean, that kind of, you know, sits in line with the fact that companies like the British Red Cross in the UK or other kind of mental health institutes have said that though we are more connected, we are far more disconnected. And I remember when I did my ted talk in 2019 called Please Come Online, I was talking about the juxtaposition between being online and using social platforms, and the first one being maybe like an MSM messenger and then a Skype and wanting to be connected to people, but yet never feeling like you really knew somebody and really never feeling like you've had that friendship or connection. So loneliness is on the increase. People's social anxiety is on the increase. If you think about the scale of social belonging or happiness, that's on the decrease. And yet we are connected to if, if not 10 or more people online at any one time. We are on our phone. I just read some stats the other day that said on average, people in America check their phone 98 times a day and you're, you're kind of sitting there thinking, wait, what, what do you mean? You're always online, you're always on your phone. And yet we are lonelier than ever before. We have been digitalized, but we are not satisfied with what we are doing. You know, that that really causes a little bit of uncertainty as to where, where the future is going and, and who and how. Most importantly the generation, the skills, the careers are going to develop. I think is a really big point to kind of raise in that. Well, and if you don't mind, one of the things that I also want to bring up that is, I don't want to say it's controversial necessarily, but you know, Covid, of course took all of those stats and increased them. Right. Like, you know, we have no other choice but to meet online. So there's that. But as we're coming out of COVID more and more companies are asking or mandating that, that employees come back to the office. Rto, right? Return to office. And so I was actually in that crowd. I started in a new job and my employer said, just so you know, Suzanne, we are requiring all employees to come in, on average two to three days a week. And I hope you're okay with that. And my response was, hallelujah. Like, I'm a social person. I really enjoy that. That's great. I look forward to. And here's what happened, Sonia. I got into my office two or three days a week, opened up my computer, and nearly every one of the, quote, meetings in my group were done on teams. And I'm like, you guys are, you know, you've missed the memo here. Making people come into the office to keep them on their computers and not physically in the presence of other people is not the answer. And so to your point of view, connected but disconnected employers who are thinking that things will be better when we just force people into the workplace. Having human connection doesn't happen just by making people get in their cars and park and walk into the office. Connectivity, real human connectivity, is something very different and requires some different thinking. Do you agree? No, I. I do agree with you. So we're currently in 2026, early 2025. There was a. I don't quite remember exactly what it was, but there was a conversation happening on the BBC, which I got involved with, which is all about connectivity and human connections and building that community and going back to. To the office, especially in terms of the return to work mandate. And those were the kind of companies like a TikTok, like an Amazon, like a JP Morgan, who were able to work and function remotely during the pandemic. Of course, if. Unless you were in a warehouse and then asked for people to come back four or five days a week. And I remember speaking to the BBC and saying the same thing, that one, people have moved out of industrial states and business parks and left the commute for a better lifestyle. And so asking them to come in, that's a big financial. That's a. That's a restriction financially for them. But also, most people can't afford it. So what are we doing? Are we offering them a free lunch? Are we helping them with their commute? Are we incentivizing them in some way? Two, you should be encouraging people to come in so they can ideate, because the best ideas come when you're kind of in person. You're able to innovate, not when you're doing deep work. Because if I wanted to work deeply, I could sit behind my own computer screen, right, and kind of get to it. And three, how are we forming those social connections? How are we forming those human connections, especially with the intergenerational divide. So this is the first time in a, in, in kind of, you know, in a very long time in work history where four generations are working together. But we know that an Alpha or a Gen Z work very differently to a baby boomer or a millennial. How are we setting them up for success? How are we making sure that the language is coherent all the way to the work timings, all the way to how you feel satisfied in the workplace? It's not just about how much money you're making anymore. It's about is this task meaningful, is it allowing me to have work life balance? Is there quality in what I'm doing, not just controversy. And I know you've kind of spoken about it in some of your academic research as well. You are no longer working for the same person or the same employer for a long time. On average, we see people who are now shifting between 18 months to two years for a job or, or they're moonlighting, which means that they have an extended job or a side hustle bringing in revenue. So I think exactly to your point, there, there is a conversation to be had around. If you are forming these networks or if you are looking for sponsors and mentors, or if you are widening your circle for these more human like connections, then we need to encourage or remind people how to make human like connections, especially those who have never done it before. Which is not transactional and which is not based on the old boys network. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, to that end, I think sometimes we, we have to go backward to go forward and to remind ourselves, well, what, what are those things that we can do to, to really look at networking as creating connection as opposed to just having a, you know, 8,000 person network or whatever your goal is. And you know, one of the things that I do myself to really try to move towards meaningful and connectedness as opposed to just the transaction is whenever possible, I opt for in person whenever possible. And if that's a matter of, you know, somebody I meet on LinkedIn, for example, I'm like, hey, any chance you're going to be in the Washington D.C. area, let's meet. And for me, even if it's a commute and you pay for your parking, there's something so much nicer and connected and sort of heartwarming. If I can be a little bit, you know, crazy for a second here about having those in person conversations and clinking a glass together and looking into each other's eyes kind of thing and heck, putting on real pants. And that's one thing that I think is really important. Another thing that I think is really important is again, to the point of not being transactional. Start these relationships when you don't have the need for them to connect you with someone or a specific piece of advice or information from them. Create the connection, nurture the connection, make it built on shared interests, goals and values and feed it. Feed it regularly, right? And one of the ways to do that is when you know what somebody's interests are, for example, and you've probably done this. Sonia. Hey, Janie, I just read this article and it's totally relevant to the conversation we had a few weeks ago. Sharing it your way, right? Something interesting to them, something interesting about your generation or even something that you talked about to really nurture that conversation. And the last thing that I would say is really important is, and people get this wrong all the time, give first, make it about them. What did they need? What did they want? You know, oftentimes, especially young people, they're afraid to network because they think they have nothing to offer. Like, I don't have significant work experience or I don't have, you know, anything but a college degree, for example. And I say to them, listen, the fact that you come from a different country, you have, you know, part of a different generation, you have a diversity of viewpoint to offer this potential connection or mentor. And so try to think about what kind of information, experience, viewpoints, skills. Right? The younger people tend to be more tech savvy. What can you offer? What can you give? Rather than asking them right away, hey, I'm looking for a job with XYZ company. Do you know anybody there? And can you connect me? Yeah, no, we're definitely on the same page. I mean, it's interesting you've said that. There is a big part in the book where I've spoken about exactly that. It's, First, I've developed 14 different networking archetypes, from the listener to the liker to the lurker. But secondly, I've. I've. Yes. I mean, I didn't get accepted the PhD, but I'm trying very hard to have some kind of study cited at this point. And the second point is the kind of give and take concepts. Obviously, Adam Grant speaks about this in his book. Yeah. And the idea being kind of give first, take after, I think we need to expand that as well to say, you know, sometimes it's okay just to give and you don't need to take anything, it's okay just to give back. But there is a big but. You have to Be very mindful of how you're giving. As somebody who has burnt out because she's given a lot. Because it's also easy to play your hand. You now are in a position where you're like, hey, is this too much giving? So a really random example being we're talking about the Internet age, right? We have a newsletter. So we do a newsletter every week, then we're thinking of doing one every month and then there's another newsletter coming out and the third one I said to my colleague, I was like, maybe we just put a subscription on it, right? It's like 2 pound 50. It's less than your coffee but it's really helping people with their workplace tips. It can increase your salary by 30k. We can increase your happiness by 80%. We've got the stats, we've got the data. But a part of you feels really bad about putting a price tag on it. However you have to think about, it's your years of experience, it's your credibility, it's your worth to some extent your ip, but also it's your time that you're putting into play. But at the same time it's really easy to write the article and to share it. It's really easy to make that introduction. It's really easy to say, hey, I met somebody that I think would be of value to you. I'm just going to connect you and leave you all to connect. So what are the, you know, I guess my, my point being is echoing what you've said, there are high impact, low tasks that you can do that can make someone's day and make a difference and there are also time consuming tasks that you have to be very mindful of. Is, is this adding value? Is this increasing my network? Is this content I'm sharing? Is this building a community? Or is this citing years of experience where actually I should be thinking about how I, how I, how I place value on it. Even if it's not monetary, it has to be something. And there is that fine line and that fine balance because we're, we're, we're all playing against each other right now. We're playing against social media, we're playing our hand against. Unfortunately, the more who shares, the more the opportunities will come. But I do think that's causing noise and distraction and we're kind of focused on the quantity versus the quality. Well, I think that on balance that's true. And I know as somebody who's a Gen X, I'm past that. I'm past the quantity. I'M all about the quality. And after a couple of conversations, if you feel like this person that you're trying to connect with is really all about them and they're selfish, I have no hesitation to say, you know what? I think that you're welcome to reach out to me from time to time, but like, I don't have much to give anymore. And I have to say, throughout my career, one of my areas of specialty is gender, gender and negotiation, gender and leadership. And frequently I get asked by organizations to keynote, for example, their International Women's Day, March 8th. And, and I'm like, yeah, that sounds great. Oh, we have no budget for that. I'm like, I'm sorry, do you actually hear yourself? There has been a systemic issue for women and other underrepresented groups, but let's just keep on women for the moment that there is this imbalance and yet you're asking me to take my 30 years of IP and experience and academic training and provide this for free. Do you not hear yourself? So I get in the beginning, I jump in and say, maybe you would have done it. I know I've done it. I know. And I'm not, I'm not proud of it. But at the beginning, when no one is giving you a chance and there is somebody who's reaching out to you, you get this sense of, oh, me? Yes. And then you, you're like, oh my God, they picked me out of everyone. I should do it because it's going to get me in front of this many people and this is going to turn into this. Now I like to think more of it as skill swapping and pro bono work versus freebie work. And what I, what I've learned from that and my I share with everyone is I don't think anyone should do anything for free. So free being, you're not gaining anything in return. I do think that if there is something which is outside of financial gain that might be of value. So an introduction, a testimonial. No, I'm not, I'm not saying like a shout out. You know what I mean? I mean, there needs to be something of substance that you can't otherwise get through. That might be a value exchange and a school scoping exchange, but even then has to be to a certain extent, like now I'm thinking of parenthood in my next chapter. I think one thing that parenthood has really shaken into me is, is what is my time worth? I can't do another three hour commute for a three hour panel just because I'm seated in the same space as cool people and I can't get FOMO if I'm missing an opportunity. But should you have asked me to do that? In my early 20s, I was a different person and I thought that if I didn't do that, I would miss out on an opportunity. So you. I think it does come with time, experience, territory, mindset. And what if establishment looks like to you? Because not that there's a process and I don't agree with that, but I would say that I at the same, in the same respect, I get people who have never publicly spoke before, who will message me being like, we've never done a presentation, but we want to do a keynote. How much should we charge? And I'm like, hey, there's so much more to just delivering a keynote than a financial game, right? Or like I, my, my own kind of, you know, people in my network, they're like, oh, you facilitate, we can facilitate a conference too. How much should we char? And I'm like, the fact that you've never facilitated a conference and therefore don't know the skills that it takes, the time, the graft, the management, the mental load, I don't think your first point, of course should be money. I think it should be something else. Not free, but not like financial gain. There has to be something in the middle. Well, Ann, I'll tell you what one of those things in the middle is for me, because you use the phrase pro bono. So I mentioned that I do this work, I mean, not exclusively, but I do have this area of expertise and developing executive programs for women to become more confident and competent negotiators. Well, one day I realized, you know, girls become women. And I started offering pro bono workshops for high school aged girls. And what I found, and the research actually supports this, this is what is classified as helping behavior. Having this alignment with like, wow, I wish the 17 year old me had the opportunity to sit in a workshop that, that I just gave. And so by giving time to things that I care about, that make me happy, that make me recognize that I'm helping many, for example, future women navigate the workplace, navigate bodily autonomy, whatever it is through the workshops that I offer, that's payment in itself. And so I would rather, you know, if someone says, oh, we only have £300 to pay you, whatever, it's like, you know what? I'd rather take nothing and do something that really aligns with my values and has impact than some number that really underestimates my worth. And I agree with that completely. One reason when we started the LMF network, especially in the pandemic, is we didn't charge a penny. Now, in hindsight, even if I charged a pound, I probably could have afforded Zoom Google a marketing manager. You know what I mean? Yeah. But we really thought, right, this is where we can help. And that has come back in twofold. That has generously paid off. But there are, there are, there are obviously companies and organizations out there that, that did different. And so now, five years in, I now have a set number of hours that I include every month, which are pro bono. Yeah. Or skill swapping or impact based, where I'm like, hey, okay, I'm going to do eight hours a month and I'm going to allocate them. So when people do come, I'm like, I. Unfortunately I'm not able to allocate the hours because they're already allocated. And that makes you feel more confident. That means that you have the knowledge that builds your credibility. That means you can still do community and you can still give back. And kind of, that giving nature is really important. But at the same time, you're building a healthy, quality network because you are really making sure that you're mindful of what you're saying yes to versus just saying yes to something for the sake of saying yes. Which I believe when it comes to finding a network, building human connection, even the use of technology, we're kind of all mindlessly saying yes or scrolling right now. And then we have the fear of missing out, kind of, you know, kind of rallying up. But we have seen the trends change where people are going offline and they're doing things in real life once again. And, you know, the skills are going to go from being a great communicator to, to that, but also being an active listener, to being able to be quiet, to being able to read the room and challenge in a constructive way rather than just cancel culture. So I do see a shift from we're going to binge this content and we're just going to be everywhere to we're going to be a slightly more mindful and live a quality life. I just don't know if that's fast paced or if that's gonna kind of rock into our world at work right now or if it's gonna be in the theory books because, you know, things are moving so quickly. Yeah. I think it remains to be seen one thing that, that I also wanted to come back to. You know, we talk about networking, I think primarily in terms of what can I Do or get, or get exposed to that I'm not currently exposed to today. And one of the things that we didn't talk about, Sonia, that I think is important to just mention, you may be in your current job working for an organization that you like and you, you connect with the culture and it's a good place to be and you're not looking to switch in the next 18 months or two years like we find. And so one of the things that is also important to remember is that we can network within our current company. And that process of networking is about growing your skillset, growing your knowledge and sharing knowledge across. I mean, organizations are notoriously siloed. And by networking, you can connect one organization to another function, to another area of expertise. And when you volunteer to do that, when you volunteer to be on committees or if you participate in ERGs, BRGs, resource groups and just generally be visible, this not only helps you in your career, but this also provides value to the organization. Yes, and it's a very important point. I mean, so far we've had a great discussion on what I believe to be all around, how do we add value to ourselves? Be that through our network, through our mentorship, through our community, to the workplace, be that through innovation labs, coming back into the office or building human connections and to the wider ecosystem. And it's really about being curious and challenging what's happening rather than just going with the flow and saying, but it's being done this way, so we're going to do it this way too. You lent on that, you know, idea of like being diverse and having shared perspectives and also having different perspectives and saying, well, this is why I'm going to lean into a wider network, because I don't know what I don't know, but I am wanting and willing to find out. As we start to wrap up, I'd love to know what are some trends or predictions that you have when it comes to the future of work. Okay, well, I predict for better or for worse, that we are going to continue to be exposed to and have access to every platform under the sun that is going to make your life, quote, unquote, easier. And I think there's going to be a return to in person connection that. Not that again, I said this before, not that you can't use these platforms and these mechanisms to find your people, find the people who share the values that you share and the interests of where you are and where you want to be, but that I think there's going to be a return, a renaissance to A luxurious hour over a coffee and getting to know one another. So again, we're gonna see these, these various platforms and mechanisms. But I do think that this mental well being and isolation and whatnot, maybe it just has a little bit lower to hit rock bottom before people say enough. And they're not making these, these platforms are not making my life better. And efficiency, as you know, is not the same as effectiveness. So that's, that's one thing I see, that is my prediction for the future. I think another thing is perhaps seeing a little bit more of AI, of course, but in a human facilitated way. I mean I was, if I'm being honest, I was really slow to get into the ChatGPT realm because I've been an author, among other things, my entire career. And this idea of taking such a shortcut or cheating, you know, and having AI do the work for me, I was like hell no, not going to do that. But the more I play around with, in my case copilot, the more I see the value of initial brainstorming and getting ideas and then going my own way. So again, I think that's another prediction that yes, people are more likely to use AI, but again there's going to be a bottom before there is a return in the other direction where people realize that real creativity, real growth of ideas and innovation and ideation can be facilitated by AI. But we're seeing slop, right? We're seeing mistakes and we still need the ability to critically think, to connect across people and functions and countries and ideas. So AI will help, but how AI is going to help us I think is going to continue to morph. Yeah, such a great way to end this discussion. And we have shared so many beautiful conversations and, and controversial opinions to some extent and you know, community based learnings all the way from reaching out to your network to give versus taking, making sure that there's a quality and value add all the way to human connections. We'll see this technology bubble burst to some extent, but before it does, we'll see an increase in the noise and we'll see an increase in the transaction until we come back to reality which is authentic and human. You know, people realize that hey, actually this is not for me. I can't just be another, another number in this kind of email chain. I have to go back to building sustained relationships and deep relationships that are going to help us in the future. And because otherwise I'm going to be lonely, I'm going to be isolated, I'm not going to know what's you know what's right from wrong to relevant. And we are seeing that shift happen as more and more people take themselves offline. It's just, how are we going to manage that in the working space? I look forward to hearing everyone's comments. Suzanne, how can people reach out to you? Where can they find you and stay connected? Well, you could find me on LinkedIn, of course, I am on Instagram. And one other thought, not a thought, but just, just one phrase that I think is really helpful. And your, your summary was spot on, spot on. But I heard this, I didn't create it. And I just want to repeat it for your listeners. Be as interested as you are. Interesting. So when you are networking, yes, of course you're looking for advice, et cetera, et cetera. But start off by being interested in other people. Ask good questions, listen to where they're going, build on what they're saying, and then show them how interesting you are, tell stories, et cetera. But I think it's that balance of interested and interesting that we should keep in mind as we attempt to build real human connections and not just this transactional kind of thing. So I just wanted to throw that in there. I'm glad you did. Thank you so much for your time. And I can't wait to bring all of this together for our content in the book, which comes up at Bloomsbury in 2027, but also the wider conversation which you have a recording to, and you know that because obviously you're listening. So send me your questions, your thoughts, hello, what's on your way, and share this with at least one person in your network and hopefully they'll learn from it. So thank you.