E193 - How Emotional Misalignment Can Sabotage You with Cindy Van Eeckhout

Rob Tracz: Hey, sorry for the interruption. It's me, Rob. And I hope you're enjoying today's conversation. But I wanted to remind you, if you're a driven entrepreneur or an expert based business owner who wants to get unstuck, create sustainable momentum and really start moving forward, I've got a free resource just for you.

You can download my five keys to clarity and momentum. It's a PDF guide. It's a quick read and it'll help you cut through the noise, clarify your next steps. What's going on everybody and welcome back to another episode of surviving side hustle.

Today's guest is Cindy Van Eckout. She an entrepreneur, coach and former sales leader who made a bold decision many dream about but few actually take. After building three businesses in south of France, including a boutique B &B, an art brand and a real estate company, Cindy and her husband realized something surprising. and start building the systems that you need for sustainable success.

So if you're new here or if you haven't grabbed it yet, this is the first step to applying these principles in your own journey. So head over to SurvivingTheSideHustle.com/5keys and download your free copy today. Again, that's SurvivingTheSideHustle.

com/5keys Their businesses weren't, successful, but they weren't, they were exhausted. So they made the difficult decision to shut down two of their companies at the peak and pivot into something more aligned. Today, helps high achieving women eliminate overwhelm caused by misaligned success and build life rooted in clarity, health, and joy. Today's conversation is about burnout, reinvention, joy, and what sustainable actually looks like.

Cindy, welcome to the show. Cindy Van Eeckhout: Thank you so much, Rob, for having me and thank you for this beautiful introduction. Rob Tracz: Yeah, of course, of course. So I'd love to just dive right in.

⁓ I want to ask you, ⁓ you left corporate Belgium to move to south of France. And big change because you were jumping out on what was an idea, correct? It was like a, was a dream that you were looking to kind of chase after. So I want to ask you, what was going through your mind at that time?

Cindy Van Eeckhout: ⁓ It's true that at that time, in one insight, I must say, first of all, liked it ⁓ everything I learned there, it was so valuable. So ⁓ I would do it again, I I would start there again in a corporate because the trainings were good, the people were good, the mentors, the colleagues. So it was very And the most important thing is that I met my husband there. So this is the biggest gift I ever received there.

But apart from that, yeah, it's a big win. apart from that, it's just that at a certain time, like after eight years in, was, we just realized that even though we loved what we were doing, that the company was growing and ⁓ you more a number at a certain time. And you to think about what are your values, what do you want in the future? And we just that things were getting a little bit misaligned that we never felt before we just asked ourselves the question is there something else is there something else we can do is there something else we want to achieve and yes what would that be this is what happened so it was not that we were in fight with the company or we do we said like no they're not good it's just like it's a feeling and it all started with a feeling ⁓ and this feeling with my husband like do you feel that as well and both of us were feeling that and ⁓ And then just taking the bold decision saying, okay, we are successful.

We have the paycheck that we want and we have this financial in one hand side, but you just don't feel fully rich on inside. was like more, a little bit of fulfillment that was missing. And at that point, it was also the joy that was like, we want to go for a little bit more joy. And this is where we took the decision just to really literally quit from one day to another.

Rob Tracz: Mm. Cindy Van Eeckhout: We took the car to the south of France and we didn't have a bulletproof plan. We didn't have a home. It was just a name and the name was Alegria.

And Alegria is a Spanish word for joy. And that was enough for us and it started all there. So with joy, going to the south of France, going to follow our heart. And days later, we found the house that we were dreaming of.

And I it was five months later, we opened the first company. This is how it all started. Rob Tracz: Wow. Yeah, I love that.

And you said something quickly and kind of moved over it and went on, but I want to go back and kind of pull it back out for a second and get your or maybe some of your thoughts on this. Because a of people, at least for speaking from my own history of when I was grinding and working and building my fitness book of up, it's easy to kind of get lost in that grind and that hustle. a of people tend to turn to distractions, whether it's Netflix ⁓ or... binge eating or maybe it's like the cell phone, doom scrolling.

There's a lot of things that, there's a lot of tools that are available to us to distract ourselves keep us separated from being in tune with ourselves. And you said something that ⁓ it started from a feeling. You were where you were in the corporate position. And, but it to feel that you were misaligned a little bit.

And I feel like a lot of people lack that. groundedness or that awareness. So I want to ask you, so helps keep you grounded so that you can be more present in your life throughout life? Cindy Van Eeckhout: Again, it starts with a feeling and if you have this feeling that...

you just know if you're honest with yourself like things ⁓ look from the outside but then again on the inside you don't have this wow feeling then it's start that things are getting misaligned so what can you do when you feel it? ⁓ If you feel it, anyway you will it if you're honest with yourself you feel it I just always say to my clients, go to nature or do something which has nothing to do with your job. it. Have a walk and just go and sure you don't go in your head.

And whatever you do, if you watch the birds, the sun, the sky, ⁓ water waterfall, ⁓ things are completely different, you will go little by little back into your heart. And this for me, the slowing down part. And it's to slow down and reconnect again with yourself. And the reconnection, is not while you're watching Netflix, while you're eating, while you're going and partying.

It's okay that you do that if you want to do that, but this is not where you will find answers to the feelings you have or you don't have. And if you feel drained and you feel like exhausted, like your energy is not there, these are all little signs and your body, it's so smart and it gives these signs and it's up to you. Rob Tracz: Yeah. Cindy Van Eeckhout: Do you want to listen to it or not?

But if you're listening to it and again go into nature, do some sports, do something completely different, go way out of your head, go into your heart and your guts and ask yourself what do I want? And if it's just a break for a moment, take a break. If it's like another position in the same company, try to go for that. it's more for yourself or for some exercising whatever, ⁓ Listen, because you know much more than you think.

And you even, then you feel. And just the time for it and slow down and reconnect. It's the most important thing you can do if you're in this hustle culture. Rob Tracz: Yeah, I really loved that because I finally tasted some of the awareness and I had realized that building this fitness business wasn't what I wanted to be doing and I wanted to pivot, I really unsure and there was a lot of uncertainty on what I was trying to build and where I was going to be moving.

And what gave me the space to get creative and ⁓ start to ⁓ what it that I wanted to be doing came to me I would go on walks outside and I would leave my headphones at home. So I would just go out just quietly peaceful by myself. I guess, I guess people call that silent cardio now. I guess people do that as a thing, but for me, I had no idea.

I just wanted to go out, sit in silence, feel the sunlight and just go on a little walk and just breathe the air. And opened that space, like I said, for me to learn and discover what it is that I wanted to do. so I appreciate you sharing that and I want to use that to kind of segue into my next question. ⁓ because you kind of jumped right into entrepreneurship.

And when you jump right in with launching B &B, there's a lot of things, there's a lot of uncertainty because you're kind of figuring it out as you're going. ⁓ So what some of the lessons that you learned when you first out doing that? Cindy Van Eeckhout: For me there are four, because in the meanwhile we have four different businesses created in more than 20 years and they're for me there are four very important lessons that I learned within all the different companies that we created.

The first is always listen to your heart and believe in yourself. If it feels good, give it a try. It doesn't mean it will work all the time because it's not because it feels right that from the first time everything will work like how you saw it. No, there will be challenges and more than one as an entrepreneur.

entrepreneurs saying like, ⁓ everything flow all the time and zero challenges. And I never heard about it where it's an entrepreneur. And even for the corporate world, it doesn't exist. ⁓ So, it's fine because it's thanks to the challenges that you will grow and that you will go really to a better level.

And it also change your journey anyway. So the first thing is. Listen to your heart, believe in yourself. Number one.

you're not passionate about it, don't even start with it. Because you really will have to put the effort in it and the action and the energy if you just do it because you think ⁓ this will bring me all the money in the world and there zero passion, you're going to continue with it anyway. So number one the heart and the belief. Number two all about action you take and the Rob Tracz: You Cindy Van Eeckhout: I call it a can-eye, it's a constant and never-ending improvement.

It's like improve and learn and learn about all the topics that you like to learn. Apart from the personal development and learning, it is very important to surround yourself with like-minded people. People who understand what you're doing, people who support you and people who are not pushing you down, because it will help you grow you can exchange things ⁓ ⁓ Rob Tracz: Hmm. Cindy Van Eeckhout: If you're surrounded by people who are just sitting in a sofa and always saying, I don't know what you're doing, won't help you in any way.

And then the last thing is me very important is ⁓ apart from like-minded people, which can be friends or family or your partner or it is also have somebody, a coach, a mentor, somebody who can help who did it before you, who can help you to go faster. Because success leaves clues. And if you have somebody to help you to go faster, you will gain so much hours, weeks and years. Especially if you want to go somewhere, you do it together with somebody.

It's something I do in the beginning and I definitely am for all the last years. it was the best. It's investment, but it's an investment in yourself. And there's always a return on investment.

Otherwise you're not working with the right people. So these are the four things that I would recommend as an entrepreneur, believe in yourself, this always this eager to learn, have people and have somebody to help you to go faster. Rob Tracz: Yeah, I love that. And what's that quote?

It's, you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. So I ⁓ believe wholeheartedly because when ⁓ I building the training business, was just me, me, me, me. Like, yeah, I had a lot of clients around me, but I was so lone wolf kind mentality that I was going then I believe burnout.

sometimes can be a byproduct of when speed outpaces direction. So when I was unclear and I was just going by myself, it was like a fast track to crashing into that burnout wall. that's part of the reason why I created Momentum Mastermind, it's an opportunity to get around more of those like-minded individuals and also learn each too, because although some of us might be in different industries or different stages of our entrepreneurial journey, we each have different lessons that we can bring.

⁓ to and share through the different reflection questions and discussion that we have at the end. So that's always important. And one thing I learned from that group is how it is really to change and pivot. And I for yourself, during the early stages of the pandemic and things were kind of causing chaos for your businesses, I know that you a lot of pressure to kind of pivot and grow and change.

So I wanna ask you, How the pivoting kind of changed for you and like, where were you? What separates those entrepreneurs who collapse under pressure ⁓ versus who pivot and succeed? Cindy Van Eeckhout: The most important thing there is mindset. Mindset and being ready and adaptable when a challenge arrives.

And when I talk about mindset and a growth mindset, it's a mindset where you, when you have challenges that you turn them into opportunities. And knowing that when a challenge arrive at that moment, be comfortable with the uncomfortable. Know that this is not fine. Rob Tracz: Mm.

Cindy Van Eeckhout: It's not the best thing that had ever happened. And in general, it was not announced. So it's like a little bit unforeseen, but having this growth mindset, say, okay, what is the lesson I can learn here? can we grow here?

⁓ can we optimize, optimize things that we can get even better, even this situation, which is completely challenging. And what the learning? And for me, a growth mindset is you either win or you learn, you never lose. Rob Tracz: Mm-hmm.

Cindy Van Eeckhout: And for me, the biggest wins were the learnings. It were not the wins. The wins are great to celebrate and it's important. It's not only for your ego, but it's to keep you going and to say like, wow, I did do that.

Because as an entrepreneur, you're sometimes very hard to yourself. You see all the successes from everybody else and you just forget yourself and celebrate. So the wins are important. But where we had the most important wins, it were the challenges with the learnings.

And then a while... you can see the dots back and say, thank you that this happened. ⁓ the moment, you're not saying thank you. ⁓ once you had it once and you had it again, and you see that thanks to this, you always grow, it becomes a game.

It's okay, what do I have to learn here? ⁓ then finding these pain points where, okay, there's a challenge again, where can I be better here? And is how you can help yourself pivot out of these situations that again, I can you it never felt right at the moment. Rob Tracz: you Cindy Van Eeckhout: But after a while, seeing it as a game, universe playing with you and you understanding what is the best thing I can do with this situation.

Rob Tracz: Yeah, I love that. because I talk a lot about the, I a lot about resilience as, the for prime performance process, what I do with my coaching. And I often talk about ⁓ growth is born out challenge and not the celebration, kind of like what you were just saying. And it's important because it's to develop that awareness.

As you're saying that mindset, because that allows us to kind of slow things down and look at it from more of a logical standpoint. And a lot of people I feel like tend to default to the emotional state and that can kind of cause and maybe some bad decision or maybe not less than optimal decisions. so want to ask you like, so how do you help keep yourself grounded on a of those emotional things because... ⁓ For example, because you talked about how shutting down your first baby, which was your first business, was emotional.

So how do you handle the emotion side that while still looking at it from the logical standpoint and looking for those opportunities while keeping yourself in a solid, calm state? Cindy Van Eeckhout: Okay, beautiful question Rob. Rob Tracz: Sorry if that was a curveball. Cindy Van Eeckhout: No, no, no, but it's interesting and it's true, but it's with all kinds of emotions, whatever it's for your business or in your personal life.

If you stay in the emotions, you will not be able, you will be reacting and not responding. ⁓ the best thing, there are some things, but the most important thing is I my Joy of Life method and number one of the pillars of my Joy of Life method, it's clarity. Rob Tracz: Mm. Cindy Van Eeckhout: So when you have lot of emotions about something or when you have a lot of overwhelmed stress, whatever the emotions or feelings you have, make sure you start with clarity.

Because thanks to the clarity, the stress and the overwhelm will go down. It will clear your mind. So you have like this mental clutter that will go away and this will help you to calm down your emotions. One, this is the clarity.

Apart from the clarity, it's just acting upon it. but small little step by small little step. a very important thing there, it's the pillar number two that I work with. It everything to do with self-care ⁓ self-care with, for me, the four magical things if you work about self-care, it is for energy, ⁓ but it helps ⁓ ground your And ingredients are nothing everybody knows them, but it's...

breathing because this will really, will help your nervous system to regulate. Together the breathing, will feel already like emotions will fade a little bit away. You do the meditation and the meditation is again to clutter, to declutter the mind. With that, you do gratitude and what I love about gratitude, ⁓ it really, everything from what painful ⁓ what is not to what is meaningful.

And when you have this different mindset again, will shift, energy will shift and is what can help you in challenging situations. then last it's add some physical movement. And again, we come back to walking in nature. It can be dancing, it can be yoga, whatever.

But if you combine these four ingredients, I can assure you that the emotions, ⁓ they will be still but you will be more grounded. And the more you exercise this and you can make a beautiful ritual out of this a daily basis, you will feel that the emotions will calm down and will not react anymore, but respond. And this is, it's all about mindfulness. And it's so important.

a state where, yeah, it's an where you know, are emotions? What is environment? And what are my thoughts? ⁓ And for me mindfulness, it calms the mind.

And when I talk about joy, I like joy because for me joy, it fills the heart. And it's like the mindfulness opens the space and joy will fill it. And to come to that state, you have to do all these little rituals in order to calm everything down. And from that space, you can make completely different that are based on a more very state instead of a very emotional with full of emotions that are not always the most productive.

Rob Tracz: Wow. Yeah. I mean, that was, that was awesome. love that skills and strategies you just gave there ⁓ slowing things down, making better decisions.

And it really starts with that clarity aspect that you were saying. And, and, really super important. I the early days of myself, I was just kind of this idea of success because that somebody else had like bestowed upon me. I was just doing chasing after these milestones because I thought that's what I needed to be doing and I needed to be doing.

it wasn't until I really took a minute to like step back and really define what success meant to me that that's what really allowed me to then pivot and change and like, okay, allow me to make better decisions because now I'm clear on what I'm actually trying to get to. ⁓ I want to ask you like, what sustainable success to you? Cindy Van Eeckhout: For me sustainable success for me a line success and that is success that feels as good as it looks so it needs to look good but feel good as well and This is what I do today with the women I work with.

general, they realize at a certain time that they are rich on their bank account, but they are poor on the inside. And what I do is I empower them to turn this success that I have, financial success, to turn it into true wealth, where life feels as good as it looks without stress, without the overwhelm, the guilty exhaustion ⁓ and unfulfillment. And this so important. important me to distinguish success being and wealthy because a complete other ball game.

And for me, being rich is having money, but being wealthy, it's ⁓ a you love. And this where I aim to have not only my life. Rob Tracz: Hmm. Cindy Van Eeckhout: where I really empower others to experience that same feeling again, because we can have it all.

And it's not just what you were telling, chasing a success just for ego or the finance. This is great. And finance is great. There's nothing wrong with having ⁓ the money, but just that you will not feel rich.

You will feel poor on the inside and it won't feel aligned ⁓ it will not be sustainable. So to have sustainable success, it is going for true wealth. and a life rich time, in freedom, joy, love and in contribution. And this is what brings you sustainable success.

Rob Tracz: ⁓ I love that. And do you see a lot of high performers of struggling with joy because their definition of ⁓ is misaligned? Cindy Van Eeckhout: I do. They, think, don't always know it.

And there's nobody who's going to wake up in the morning saying like, oh my gosh, I'm missing some joy today, or this is what I'm chasing now. They don't even realize it anymore. But that's the thing. And also to be very clear, because some people don't even understand what is joy, and what is happiness, and what is the difference, and what is it all about?

For me, joy? It is like renewable source of that is from within. ⁓ It from within and it comes from alignment, from presence and being. It's a way of being.

Happiness is as well, but that's more a way of feeling. And this way feeling, ⁓ it's more an reaction to an external event. So it's more like a moment driven where is more like lasting. The nice part about joy, it's not a goal.

It's not like, I'm gonna do all this, whatever it can be, in order to then achieve joy. No, joy is something you create along the way. And if you enjoy your journey, you will have joy all the time. you don't have to think anymore about it because you would just feel it again.

And it's not something that comes at the end. It's there all the time. And what I see today, first of all, most of the high achievers, don't even realize it anymore. They don't think about it.

They don't know what joy is and they don't. And what I see is it shows up in different ways. So I'll give you some, I call them the four joy blockers. It's for myself.

But when I talk with my clients, there are four different ways in general. So it all starts from misalignment. whatever the misalignment can be. you will see there is mental overload.

⁓ the mental overload, it starts with endless to-do lists, no clarity anymore, and this really leads to overwhelm. So mental overload and it comes from misalignment. And I can tell you, if you have that, there is no joy, because you will sacrifice the joy first. And ⁓ this is the joy is gone.

So this is one of the ways where this misalignment shows up. ⁓ Another way, emotional suppression. And with emotional suppression, mean like your emotions in order to be more productive. And this is what a lot of high achievers do because they want to push, push through so they don't even think about about their emotions.

So you've got unprocessed emotions like stress, ⁓ doubt, whatever, and they lead to burnout. And again, this is not a place where you will find joy in your life. A ⁓ blocker you will have in your life coming from this alignment is physical depletion. physical depletion, starts with skipping the rest.

It starts with all these little body signals of health that you're on the game and then overscheduling more and more. And this will lead to exhaustion. And again, you are in this mode where you don't even think about joy. Rob Tracz: Hmm.

Cindy Van Eeckhout: And then the last one, that's a spiritual misalignment. And this is when your actions, whatever you're doing day to day, they're not longer aligned with your values and with your deep why. And this creates like an inner dissonance. And again, these are some things I see a lot with high achievers.

And most important thing is if you don't have a big smile while you wake up in the morning to go to work, there's a big chance that one of the four Rob Tracz: Hmm. Cindy Van Eeckhout: or maybe two or three or sometimes four are in your life. And it just means you're misaligned. And it mean it's fatal and there's a big problem with you.

This is I do. I help women to just reorganize things in order to be aligned again. And then automatically you've got a big smile and the joy comes back. But again, joy is the ultimate thing at the end.

The most important thing is that you just feel, yeah, have a big smile and feel energized and fulfilled again. Rob Tracz: Yeah, I love that. mentioned a couple of times that you ⁓ specifically with women to kind of help them get back to this joyous kind of state. But specifically speaking, like who who seems to the most from working with you?

Cindy Van Eeckhout: clients general, they are women. It's not that these are things that men don't have in their lives. ⁓ But in what I see with high achieving women, they can be working in corporate world, very high level, or as an having their own company. It are different profiles, in general, they have the same things in common.

⁓ So they are between 55 in general with a partner, general with children. And this is where the heavy lifting come because they'd like to be perfect in the job. They like to be perfect as a partner, as a mother, as a friend, and they just lose themselves along the way. And this is where it goes wrong.

And whatever, if you have the highest function in a corporate company or you're running your own business personnel or without personnel, it's that you're on empty. You're driving on empty. it starts the self care in general. And then just feeling of like, I have it all, I've got the beautiful title, I've got the money, I've got the car, I've got everything.

But how does it come that not happy? I'm not joyful. I don't to say it anymore, but this is what they all have in common. And with that, it all starts like, okay, let's maybe start with yourself.

Let's fill that cup again. And when you have the energy for yourself, you can give it again. Because there are a lot of them are givers. Givers and a gift to everybody.

but they just forget themselves. Rob Tracz: Yeah. And that's, that's tough because you can't fill up other people's cups. If even if you are a giver, if you've got nothing left to give in your own cup.

So powerful stuff there. And so I understand you've got a lot of exciting things kind of coming up. I'd love to ask you a little bit about, um, we had mentioned in a previous conversation about a podcast coming out. What's, what's up with that?

What's going on with the, with that whole idea? Cindy Van Eeckhout: beautiful ideas and ⁓ for this year. So as I'm ⁓ a lot of podcasts and I love it, so I will be more than happy to launch my podcast and it will be around this. So I would love to invite guests to my podcast, not only women there, because I like the both men and women and how they see life that feels as good as it looks.

How do I see this wealth? And when I talk again, when I talk about a wealthy life, for me there are four big areas. There is everything concerning the health and with health, it's very large. It's emotional, mental, physical and spiritual health.

two, it's all about relationships, the relationships towards towards your partner, kids and family and friends. Number three, all about your career and ambitions you have and alignment and finance. And also there, the relationship with money. and how you work with that.

number four, it's about the quality of life. And this is all about it. So within these four categories, I would love to have beautiful conversations that are for other people to work on all these areas and understanding that possible to have them all. Maybe not at the beginning, but while you work on it.

with that, having this beautiful conversation, making a book around it, I just... made a co-author book about creating a life that feels as good as it looks. this is what I would love to do is inspire others to know that it's possible and as much as different tips from my from from my clients, in order that it possible and that people know that this is a they can go, they come from to go to. So this is...

what's going on with the podcast and together with that a book concerning that. Rob Tracz: ⁓ I love it. It's really exciting stuff. And I know in a previous conversation you had shared that like having conversations really accelerate growth.

And love to ask you like, why do you feel that having conversations like the podcast and with your clients and, and such, does, ⁓ why does help accelerate growth? Cindy Van Eeckhout: all comes back again, like what I said in beginning, it's being with like-minded people and for me, in yourself and learning and personal development, again, it's the investment you can ever do. Nobody can tax it, nobody can take it away. And it's for you always.

So I always learn when talk with people, when we had a beautiful conversation as well. ⁓ Now with this conversation, we all learn from each other and with each little learning, you just pivot every time again. And it is so interesting. really love it.

the more you have these conversations with people, there's always little thing that you saw differently or you were stuck ⁓ or you help else that was stuck. And if you're in own world and you always stay in your cocoon, you just don't see it And it just opens completely, not only the mind, it opens your heart, opens everything. So this is for what life is all about. Rob Tracz: Hmm speaking of conversations if somebody's listening to this conversation and they're interested in having a conversation with you What's best way for them to go about initiating that?

Cindy Van Eeckhout: There are two ways there. is my website. It's Alegria. Joy of life in Alegria.

It's A-L-E-G-R-I-A. don't know if you're going to put it in a website. So Alegria coaching. Alegria coaching one word with one L dot EU.

So this is the website. They will find lots of information. There's also an assessment that I offer as a free gift. are always gifts that I offer.

Now there is a Joy of Life Assessment and this is a quiz. takes two minutes and it will help them to see is giving them the overwhelming exhaustion and the stress. And it's automatically they just fill in some questions, ⁓ they will have personalized report with tips and insights ⁓ in order to reduce the stress and to get more and energy back again in their lives. ⁓ So this is...

the website and important that I'm on socials. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram and on Facebook and also there they can follow me with lots of pleasure. They can direct message me and on my website there everything is there to get connected with me. Rob Tracz: make sure you guys follow her on the socials and go check out her website too and tuned for the podcast and book and ⁓ I to thank you for coming on today.

It's it's been super awesome. Love the conversation Love speaking with you love the excitement and the positivity that just ⁓ radiates out just speaking with you and the joy around you ⁓ I should so thank you for coming on and ⁓ and sharing wisdom and insights and and your story with everybody here today Cindy Van Eeckhout: You're more than welcome. It was a pleasure for me because I know we do quite a lot of, we have a lot of things in common, have a lot of ideas in common. So it's, for me, very, very interesting also to having this conversation with you and, and thank you for organizing this beautiful podcast.

So thank you. Rob Tracz: Of of course. before I let you go, Cindy, I want to ask you one final question here because ⁓ the is surviving the side hustle. So a lot of our listeners have their nine to five job and they're also running a side business on the side.

⁓ So they've running two jobs, essentially. They might be feeling successful on paper, but they might be quietly and like draining out empty on the inside. One final piece of advice. What would you share with them?

⁓ Cindy Van Eeckhout: First of all, if you want to move further to joy, first question you have to ask yourself is what is one thing that will bring me joy? And this is different for everybody. And it's different for everybody in different seasons of their lives as well. ⁓ just ask yourself, what is it that will bring me joy?

Is this new job that I'm just doing aside? Rob Tracz: to kind of get them started to move themselves closer to joy. Cindy Van Eeckhout: Or is it, do I want to stay aware? whatever it is, just ask yourself that first question.

Second thing is take a little step towards what will bring you the joy. What is the answer for you? And take that little step and your plan ⁓ in to do it little step by little step. Don't do it in two steps.

⁓ I was bold with my husband of stopping from one day to another. You can do that and focus on that, but it's okay to do it like in smaller steps. If it feels right for you, this is it. But just make sure there is commitment, make sure there's consistency.

And there's Denzel Washington, he says, it's so beautiful. So without commitment, you never start, but without consistency, you never finish. And this is for me, one of the most beautiful quotes in life and certainly as an entrepreneur. Rob Tracz: love it.

Cindy, thank you so much. Beautifully said. It's been a pleasure having you on today. I would love to have you back in the future.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. This was an amazing episode. Cindy Van Eeckhout: Thank you so much.