E199 - Why Financial Planning Should Help You Live Now with Ohan Kayikchyan

Rob Tracz: What's going on everybody and welcome back to another episode of surviving the side hustle. Today we've got a special guest because we've got another returning, returning guest all the way from back in April 10th of 2024 ⁓ when the first episode dropped. So, quite a while ago. So I'm super excited because we're bringing Ohan Kayikchan.

Did I say that correct? Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: You did it perfectly.

Rob Tracz: All right, perfectly close enough. I love that. But ⁓ in case you hadn't heard the first one, we dove into how he was Ohan the money doctor and the founder of Alohana Financial. And he's a certified financial planner with nearly two decades of experience in the finance industry.

Ohan's is pretty unique. He came to the United States from a post-Soviet country, started his career working in banking a teller. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: Thank Rob Tracz: and slowly worked his way through every layer of the financial system, becoming a private banker, earning his CFP designation, and eventually launching his own firm. But what makes Ohan's approach different that he doesn't ⁓ focus on optimizing the numbers. His philosophy is that money is simply a tool. And financial planning should help people live the life that they actually want, not just to sit back, accumulate wealth, and wait for retirement.

In today's conversation, we're going to talk things as the psychology of money, ⁓ waiting until retirement can be a mistake and how financial planning should help people experience life sooner rather than later. So, man, welcome back, dude. I'm excited to dive in with you. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: Rav, I'm so happy we are back and I'm so happy always talking to you. This will be a good conversation. Rob Tracz: Yeah, I'm excited.

And in the first time we kind of connected, we lightly went over kind of your story and we talked about how you didn't grow up in the United States. And ⁓ I to just kind of dive in there just as a little refresher, but what was it, what was your life or your early life like ⁓ and was it that really brought you here to the States? ⁓ Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: Yeah, that's a great question. When I did my education back home, I already started working. there, I was ⁓ actually a loan officer. then that, had a career in mortgage underwriting as well as a mortgage underwriter and bank advisor.

So I got involved with finance ⁓ at that ⁓ But English nowhere, of course, near like the way that I communicate right now. I always wanted to learn English. And I remember like ⁓ some people it is, I wish I can understand news, English news. In my case, it was, I hope one I can understand English songs, you know, because I was listening, but there is no way I was able to understand like what are the lyrics.

can be poetry in case of let's say rap music or hip-hop and all that. So I wanted to learn English and then I got an opportunity to come to United States through a program that the Department of State conducting until recently called Visa Lottery, literally lottery they call it. So you and I got picked, I got chose, I got my card, came to United States legally, which was ⁓ at that moment didn't realize like how hard it is to get residency or citizenship in the States because my goal was to come in English speaking country that I can put myself in that uncomfortable situation of having hard time communicating and just learn English that will be the best way because when you are surrounded by foreigners who speak certain language you don't understand you don't have any option but just to learn is similar to finance to be quiet on this video because as soon as I arrived to United States again a financial background right away start applying for bank positions and I apply for teller position.

I overqualified because of, as I mentioned my previous experience, but then I was applying for banker position and my was not enough. Finally, ⁓ Rob Tracz: Mm. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: It happened that, you know, you can be in some type of a corner, but you always the hope that you just turn around and turn left or right or back and there is a door that you can come out. ⁓ finally I found that door. came out of that situation and found job as a teller, as a cashier. And I at the beginning when I was over the phone trying to help clients or talk to our back office and bring an issue or something.

I understood the context. But many things I couldn't understand until I remember we had a senior banker, nice lady who'd been in the bank at that time, probably long ⁓ enough I remember mentioned to me, do your best to be in this environment at least for four to six months and you will see what will happen with your language. ⁓ And of she was right. I started picking the English, but of course it comes with the...

different stages. So still learning English every day, doing my best to communicate as clear as I can ⁓ it helps me with my communication with clients. Rob Tracz: Yeah, I love that. And I think having that kind of mindset of, um, just always learning, always growing, always have room to improvement.

And, uh, that really came to me when I first started speaking, I went through my very first speaker school and I was like, all right, cool. Now I'm ready to start charging $20,000 for a keynote. And then I realized like, Oh, there's a lot to this and it's kind of like art and you can always get better and better and there's ways of improvement. Um, but speaking of kind of.

improving and getting better and evolving, should say, actually, I know from a conversation you and I had recently, there a point for you when you realized that financial planning isn't just about the numbers and that there's a huge psychological aspect to it. So I want to ask you like, what made you realize that ⁓ the side of money is more important than just the optimization side? Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: You are a great interviewer, Rob, these are great questions you are asking. And again, conversation, I will continue with the language. Similar way that you learn any foreign language, finals, I consider a language as well, you need to learn. But in order for you to learn, you start with A, B, and C.

But at the beginning, remember, my English was not enough to differentiate two simple words that nowadays I that at that time I was using the words want and need interchangeably. Rob Tracz: Mm. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: And I thought that I am because that was foreign language when, but when in me at that time, but when I get into the profession, I realized how different they are and how important it is to differentiate. Although now realizing even people who were born in United States grow up in English environment. In reality, do confuse want from the need when it comes to finance. Sometimes they will their wants, but then They confuse like what is need and what is want and want is something that we have control versus like need we need the shelter.

You know, there is this hierarchy of needs, mass loss needs. Hear me that at the beginning we need to have a shelter. We need to have a food. These are needs.

then what type of car you are driving or how big or small you are living, that's more of like a want, you know. So this factor. how I get into Rob Tracz: Mm-hmm. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: financial planning because I got my securities licenses while I was working in the bank wanted still to have some type of a formal education ⁓ is when I went to ⁓ for a program called ⁓ financial planner which was a requirement for certified financial planner ⁓ ⁓ I did that that was the time I evaluated my diplomas ⁓ everything ⁓ when I became a certified financial planner I like ⁓ that's it I figure out everything. I can go now out tell everyone what they need to do when it comes to their money.

And pretty quick, I realized that I was wrong. People, they were not taking my advice because are telling them your way doing something. But when I learned that Rob Tracz: Yeah. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: That's important to learn the A, B and C and of course optimizing your finance, learning all different products and disciplines when it comes to money. That's very important. But to be quiet honest with you either today or maybe maximum tomorrow, in my opinion, AI will do the best way of optimizing everyone's finance.

But then I realized that there is human part of financial planning and finance in general, you mentioned behavioral part, the psychology of money. That 80 % by some measures, it's all about behavior and psychology or beliefs, how you grow up and everything when it comes to managing the finance. Then only 20 % are the numbers and the plan itself and optimizing. The largest awakening for me was ⁓ the book, ⁓ Stages of Money Maturity, ⁓ is a book by ⁓ Kinder, who is my mentor.

So I did another designation between the ⁓ and this one that I will mention. did another one. became an enrolled with IRS, but this is mainly ⁓ to some stock strategy for clients as well. But this is again, left brain, ⁓ technical guy who has the ⁓ background, ⁓ numbers, numbers, just to make sure I have the numbers optimized my clients.

That was my previous career. And then I read the book, Seven Stages of Money Maturity, I got introduced the world of financial life planning. I became a registered life planner, ⁓ which happened in beautiful beautiful island in Hawaii, a place called Hana. That's the place where George Kinder lives part-time.

He lives in three different places in the world, including Massachusetts and UK. But I went there, learned this, and that was the eye-opening when I realized that... I'm not the hero of the relationship. when I learn all this with my experience in everything, again, I was thinking of, ⁓ know the answers, I know the solutions.

⁓ are trained to find solutions for others. But was the difference in the process of becoming a life planner ⁓ that should listen to my client, what they want to accomplish in their And that's pretty much my first meeting when I'm doing. All I do, just listen and give that space, create that space, which is free, judgment free. And especially when couples come to me in cases, because I create environment that I will listen to them and they start talking.

Partners they've been together for quite some times in many cases for decades They start learning about each other right in front of me they never got a chance to be in the space that someone will truly to them ⁓ without We have a saying in this process that let your thoughts go Let your feelings be and what it means by least what I understand that don't your thoughts to like, okay, ⁓ they want to go to Italy. That is one of their goals. By the I've been in Italy and this is experience that I have in Italy.

And now I'm steering their conversation somewhere else. ⁓ I didn't let to bring everything they want to bring about their dream. travel or vacation that they have. So it's very important to listen because when you listen people sometimes take out some goals they just protected deep in their heart because they thought that ⁓ I share with someone first will as many humans do they will judge or they will just right away just sake of better word, poo poo, their dreams and they never brought it up versus here I'm creating the environment for them ⁓ bring up all the yearnings and longings they have in their life.

Rob Tracz: Yeah, that's powerful stuff to creating that space really brings down those gates and then opens opportunities for people to share what they're really to get to and allowing themselves to kind of not only like, so you're creating opportunity for them to do some self exploration. And I feel like a lot of people in today's world are just kind of, they don't really themselves. So then they don't really know how to plan or they don't know how to prioritize certain things because they just follow whatever social media tells them to or whatever is in.

⁓ on in the mainstream media, they just kind of follow these other things and live this life that they want to. I think that's you just solely creating a space for them to kind of pull out some of those ideas on really what it is that they want and versus what they just need. ⁓ And building up from there is really powerful stuff. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: Yes, another thing I would mention for our listeners that do listen, that's my first meeting. I should even mention the process. It is abbreviation, but it's the word evoke, E-V-O-K-E.

And E stands for exploration. That is the meeting when I give them the space. This is more like on surface, then just letting them to just bring everything that they have inside they want to accomplish in their life. But our ⁓ meeting, V is about vision.

And the meeting, we give the client some, we call inspirational exercise, not to have the homework type of like homework, is not very motivating work versus inspirational exercise, people get excited. they do again, like, ⁓ mentioned, my mentor, George Kinder, he is the author of the Popular in financial planning industry three questions. So I give them this trick questions as inspirational work for them to think about along with that We have other questions as well and they have beautiful names one of the exercises name is Hardcore and over there you are realizing like what you want from your heart and then we have ideal day ideal week ideal Ideal actually like year you can put like are your goals for love you can have.

So there are different exercises and I don't want to ⁓ our listeners and I don't do that to my clients either. I them to give enough for them ⁓ just them to self reflect as you mentioned, self realize themselves. And then away when ⁓ we deliver vision, know what Rob, away people start thinking about obstacles. because they're like, ⁓ this sounds great, but, then at that point, I remind them that now it's time to leave your vision because until next meeting, because the next meeting, the third meeting is the all and it's obstacles.

We'll tackle we overcome that obstacles just to see ⁓ what is on your way, unfortunately in many cases, Rob Tracz: Hmm. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: Clients stands on their own way like in my case as well.

I only stay on my own way People will think right away about money about income, which of course some things that will Discuss and address but that will only happen on the meeting for which is about knowledge where I bring and present the financial plan that incorporates their live vision how to accomplish live vision and and in many cases it's counterintuitive when they come to see me and I that for my Rob Tracz: you Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: three meetings will not discuss any numbers.

⁓ ask some because I'm I'm the meeting and Rob Tracz: Hmm. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: They're like, what do you mean you will not discuss any numbers?

I like, I will discuss because I'm a financial planner. What do you mean no numbers? They think they will come with all their statements and everything. Show me their network, which of course I will collect and I will go to that and I'll do my best to optimize their finances.

But at the beginning, I want to know them. Rob Tracz: Okay. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: Again, unless they have something to address, I will address it. Of course, on the first meeting, I will address it. If they say, a young family and they never consider that there is, God forbid, happened to them, something happened to both partners or something. ⁓ So we discuss this urgent stuff.

But if there is not anything urgent, we'll numbers on meeting four. And after that, the last letter is execution, where I help them to implement the plan. And it is different for every client, every individual or couple because it all depends on complexity. It all depends on family, they have kids, if they have businesses, if they have real estate.

But this is my process in a nutshell. Rob Tracz: I love it. And I love I'm a huge acronym person. So I've got different acronyms for all my the different stages of my process and the frameworks that I teach to you.

So that makes it super easy to remember. And, and I it because I'm huge on self awareness and all the questions kind of going through is digging that deeper we were talking about a minute ago and really understanding yourself and where you're to go and everything. And, I like that you talk how People shouldn't wait until retirement to live their lives. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: Absolutely Rob. There is this saying in again financial industry in the retirement planning space.

Something called a honeymoon effect when someone just becomes retired, you know when you just become retired for first one to three or four years depending again on the situation Retirees that honeymoon stage. They are excited finally I don't ⁓ I need to wake up at 9 if that was something bothering them I don't need to be on schedule for work. So they exploring different things. They start traveling they Sign up some Valentine job or whatever they want to do they finally start writing their book and everything that they were postponing and procrastinating on that but after a certain period they're like what is next what I should do next and this honeymoon is gone now now they are trying new things which is already like for many in America 67 is average retirement age imagine like 67 70 I want everyone to be healthy especially knowing you what you do everything.

I want everyone to pay attention to their physical health as mental health spiritual health is important. But then time does a job so we are not in the same physical situation that we've been in our 30s, 40s when are in our 60s, late 60s or 70s. ⁓ I always say that ⁓ if you to make that Italian dream trip Why you don't do it early? Because Italy there are no escalators and elevators, nowhere near like the United States.

So you to ⁓ climb stairs up and down to go to see your dream monument or the chapel or wherever want to go and visit in Italy. But then... why we don't try it earlier than later. And there is a tendency now in industry, something called ⁓ take six months, a year or two, and take this retirement early to try all these different things they were yearning to do in traditional retirement Because in many cases, there are situations people can afford to do that.

that used to be called sabbatical for professionals, meaning professors or teachers they can take. they refer to sabbatical ⁓ these short-term vacations. ⁓ have the finances that can support or they have the lifestyle that it can support to take ⁓ time for them to reset and just to see what... how they want to move forward, but they just want someone who that will give them the permission.

And what I mean by that with again, with a pure place permission, meaning like for financial professional to check their numbers and like, you can take this vacation now. You don't need to wait until you are 67 or how bad you just retire. 10 years earlier than that was in your mind. And that's imaginary, the questions even when I'm asking it is somehow connected to death, which no one has guaranteed when it will arrive.

And why we are not trying your speaking ⁓ or tennis try it just to see if you like it. then now you will be ready when you retire, you already know you will do tennis or you will volunteer or you will start speaking. But my goal is with life planning shorten that period of now. When your dreams will come reality and in many cases we are talking about couple of years Maybe three four five maximum we are not thinking of which we will have of course long-term plan we will have of course your investment check and your Taxi check just to see like depending on what economy will do in there.

You see now little by little I'm going to my left brain, but I will do that for you ⁓ But most importantly, I want to see ⁓ how can accomplish your dreams in a shorter period it as soon as possible. Rob Tracz: Yeah. And that's super powerful. And I, learned this lesson of not waiting until retirement firsthand when I watched my dad, because my dad used to always talk about like, he can't wait to retire.

He couldn't wait to retire. but he would, he would work so much and he would work crazy hours and he would ⁓ do for mostly for sister and myself. Like he wanted to be able to, be there and create something for us. And he continued to and work and work in this.

opposed to just retiring early. He's like, no, I can put a couple more years in. can put more years in. And then ultimately getting sick with cancer and he passed away and he had filed all of his paperwork for retirement and everything.

But because he didn't make it to that first retirement check, he technically still died like on the job ⁓ therefore wasn't entitled like my sister or myself wasn't entitled to any of that pension that he had worked all those years for. So essentially he had worked, worked, worked, worked, all this stuff prepared for us and then able to provide it to us because he had passed away too early. So I took that to heart and I was like, Hey, I'm not going to sit around waiting to build something.

⁓ going to start living the life that I want to live doing the things I want to do now ⁓ then build my life around the things that I want to do. And totally believe you on that, that whole aspect of your life now as opposed to living it later. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: Rob, that's a powerful story and rest in peace, your dad. something that I really like. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being vulnerable, but you experienced firsthand.

And is the part that not only by these questions, but if we remind that we are not guaranteed. Next, breath. Breath is the most important for me, you know, every second we need to appreciate and that helps me to be mindful as well when I pay attention how I'm breathing. But there is no guarantee, there is no guarantee that we will be around for how long, at what capacity when it comes to health.

mental or physical. So it's important to enjoy life. There is this thing that I want to mention. There is this abbreviation of YOLO.

Yes, only live once. And like another extreme when people like ⁓ you live once. So let me spend everything now. But what talking about this ⁓ short term or trying to spend the while you are alive, ⁓ it comes to as well.

In many cases, people wait until last day or... ⁓ which is again, nobody knows when it is in many cases, but they wait they pass the way. And then after that, the inheritance goes to the next generation. They don't even see like ⁓ the next generation is enjoying that money ⁓ whatever assets ⁓ they accumulated for the next generation.

Again, I'm for the situation that you and your sister even experienced with this patient situation it came to your dad. ⁓ But like, like it is very important to remind us moment we on planet earth it's a we appreciate it ⁓ which I'm like the way that I know you and everything your father appreciated it but then our society and the that we grow up it kind of embedded in us that no there is a certain age until that age you need to do your nine to five there are certain professions that not approved by society as well like they are not considered serious you know when I I remember when I was doing content creation that was not considered serious.

Like what happened to Ohan? He was to six employee ⁓ a bank. He was a private banker ⁓ now he's creating online, trying certain writing, ⁓ reading art, which is again in society, it is not something that... accept it because they will there is this saying in english as like the hungry i believe artist or hungry musician or in many cases hungry phd as well which ⁓ will of course understand that part as well that people like ⁓ all are in science and everything but these are like majority of people Rob Tracz: Okay.

Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: is believer of ⁓ of Majority and many cases you just need to overcome these myths, you know that they're yes I can I can take a ⁓ year or and that's fine before it used to be like they will check your Resume and they like what is this gap and then you need to give an explanation for you to get tired and everything but now this time change people work from home ⁓ people change their if they don't like something they just quit. It is not like in our parents generation when someone started with a company in the state then.

this consideration of early retirement and just trying, trying certain things, not waiting is like eye for me as well. So I totally hear your story. Rob Tracz: Yeah. I love, I love that you focus on, like full planning as well.

So it's not just like, yeah, go out and take these actions, do this now, spend the money now, but you're also taking into consideration the longer term picture. but I'm curious. So like, so like who are the people that you help the most? Is it, is it like, I know you had mentioned some younger couples and people who are kind of starting out in the world.

is that who gets the most out of what you're and sharing with? with the world. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.

: That's another great question. And there is no simple answer to that. in ⁓ planning community, ⁓ we that everyone, literally everyone on planet earth deserves a life plan for them to at least go through this experience for them to understand what I mean by life plan, to realize like what are their dreams and longings and their goals they want to accomplish and in many cases, it never I don't want them to regret, know, like last moments like I never became that speaker or that writer or wrote a book and everything.

But because of my my as you mentioned, I ⁓ wasn't born in United States. I ⁓ here when I was already years old. So I ⁓ communicate with who are also immigrants, ideally third generation immigrants, ⁓ they are more or already in the American way living and what I mean by that maybe their parents work hard and didn't get a chance to understand how finance work but versus first generation immigrants they went to schools more or less although we know schools don't teach necessarily financial literacy more or less with their friends and new neighbors co-workers they learned that they are all there is something called 401k there is something called 403b ira maybe differences so it's for me to talk to them when they have a little bit of a basis and all I need to do just to guide again for them to see where they want to go what is the deeper meaning in their life beyond money will be good good prospect for me a client.

Also, there is an abbreviation called We talk about abbreviations today. ⁓ And stands for ⁓ high not yet. That's from a book like ⁓ Millionaire Next And Henry's are good clients for me as well because ⁓ before launching which is by way, combination of two words, and Ohana. Ohan is in the middle, but Klant is in the middle.

Ohan has nothing to do with the name. I just wanted to have that Alohana and Ohana because I learned all this in Hawaii. But when I launched Alohana, like right now it's a financial life planning firm, my experience private banker until now was in... money coaching.

So, Henry's people in my opinion that more less they need this aspect of a good money coach well ⁓ because what Harry's no judgment please but that's the way I was able to explain usually like they high income earners professionals ⁓ but always either had there is calling called lifestyle creep they always upgrade cars, their houses, larger houses. And on of that, they have a student loan because they got some great professions doctor or an attorney. So these will be great, great clients to have ⁓ conversations for them to stop for a moment, know.

started the blog alohana moment which was mainly I started for me just to reflect on myself But I want my clients to reflect as well not necessarily read I write because if they find the value they will but for them stop for a moment and they Think like what I want to accomplish in my life and there is saying which came from my friend ⁓ is again on industry and ⁓ I Consider him and mentor as well. He calls it midlife awakening instead of midlife crisis in sweet to meet midlife awakening and when I did a little bit research it comes from the time of Carl Jung when he says that until 40 it is just an experience you start living when you are in your 40s and I want this again just sake of better work Henry high earners not rich red rigid people to come to that awakening that I can I can do Rob Tracz: Mm-hmm.

Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.D.: Certain things I don't need to stress anymore because many of these people they are in very stressful jobs They can be an ER doctor They be an attorney who doesn't have weekends for their kids or their or their ⁓ parents family or whatever is that and they are working from nine to six including in many cases weekends ⁓ and then at retirement age they are realizing like life just passed by didn't see like my daughter or my son their practice or ⁓ their school or for their performance so these are ideal clients for me as well ⁓ couples general just for myself being still I consider myself newly wed I got married five ⁓ ago and have a daughter now but couples are another don't even want to use word client, but I don't know ⁓ what to ⁓ use now.

Future like partners that I can work with because I understand their world. Again, as I have a daughter who is young. So these are three, like first generation immigrants, ⁓ earners, and then Or sometimes can be combination of all three. They can be everything at the same time.

⁓ Rob Tracz: Yeah, yeah, and you mentioned the too. So ⁓ do people who's listening to this subscribe to your newsletter so they can stay up to date and continue to reflect on a basis for themselves? Or if they're interested in reaching out and contacting you, what would be the best way for them to do that? Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: The easiest way is alohanafinancial.com, which is my website. Alohana is combination of Aloha and Ohana.

Aloha hello, but in the meantime, means peace. It Even like on seven stages again, we talk about this book a lot today, but George Kinder explains is the way of like stage of your life that you accomplish to the moment that you can give without expecting anything back. That was the main reason of choosing Aloha and Ohana is like is a family that no one left behind. So that is the meaning of the word Aloha.

Otherwise people confuse. They're like, you are from Hawaii, which I'm not, but I love Hawaii. I love Hawaiian culture. Rob Tracz: Thank Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: everything. So these long explanation alohanafinancial.com is the website where they can find the blog.

Also, I it on my LinkedIn, which is easy to find as long as they spell my name right. There is nobody with Ohanka Icchan And also like I on Substack as well if anyone nowadays using Substack. ⁓ this is the beginning and I don't know where all this is going I'm here for the long run and I to mention again, give a try to read the Alohana moments, the Alohana but in the meantime ⁓ I wrote it for myself because I'm exploring certain topics that are interesting to me. Again, English not being my first I'm doing my best with my simple English to explain some concepts in many cases I read and I like.

This is very This is word salad, know, or these words I to, so trying to... explain it in simple English and in every moment I have a that ⁓ challenge the readers to stop and reflect on it. So and in general try find your aloha moments while you are driving, you are doing something and that will help you to be present. It will help you be more mindful instead of just always thinking about past that is already gone and future that is not here yet.

Rob Tracz: Okay. Yeah. Well, Ohan, I think you appreciate you coming on today and sharing a whole lot about the process that you're helping so many people with and just even the story about yourself and how you kind of got into where you're currently at. So ⁓ love always connecting with you, catching up with you.

We've been friends now for almost three years, I think, which crazy to think about how time flies. So that's pretty awesome. So thank you again for coming on. Ohan Kayikchyan, Ph.

D.: Yeah. Very much. And time does fly, man.

Like that's in a sense, a good thing that it means you are happy and that flying because there are some boring situations and I love even in many cases to be by myself with my writings, with my readings, just to be in the nature and everything and time. I don't necessarily want to use the time flies for people not to think they don't have enough time, but it indeed, like I look back and I've been in United States now for 16 years, seems like yesterday. That's another way of reminding us that time to live our lives is now.

And it's always a pleasure, talk to you outside of as well. I always enjoy and thank you for having me here today. Rob Tracz: Of course, man, of course. next time, guys, peace, peace, peace, peace.