Michella Thomas' Swim Story

Speaker A: Where land meets water, an invitation lingers, not just between elements, but between versions of yourself. You could remain on shore where it's safe, familiar, predictable. Or you could cross into the unknown. Shannon. I'm Shannon Keegan and this is Stories from the Water, where we dive into the courage it takes to begin, the resilience that keeps us moving forward, and the wisdom that only emerges in the space between.

Speaker B: Hi Michelle. Uh, how are you?

Speaker C: Hi Shannon. I'm great. How are you?

Speaker B: I'm good. Uh, I'm excited to be here with you today. Will you tell us about your relationship with the water?

Speaker C: Absolutely. It's a very long and wonderful relationship. But like with all relationships, we do have ups and downs. Um, and you know, it's, it's not like we ever made a formal commitment, but there is a commitment. Um, two to one.

Speaker B: Where did it begin for you?

Speaker C: Well, as far as, you know, learning to swim. Um, my mom, this was in the Philippines. My mom was a, was an Olympic swimmer, very well known Olympic swimmer in the Philippines. You know, she and her three younger sisters were known as the Vongi sisters. And um, so everybody knew them in the Philippines being a small country. And she was one of the first four Filipino women to go to the Olympics. So that was pretty cool. So needless to say, we were always in and around the water after that. And you know, during that time, going to one Olympics was definitely a big deal, um, versus what you see today because she could have gone to number two or number three, but, um, she decided it's time to have children, get married and all that. Um, so, um, I'm the youngest of three, um, children that she had. And um, we were always at the pool. And I remember my brother and my sister, um, they're four and five years older than me respectively. They were working out and they would go to the sumit while I was in the other pool with my swim coach, um, Mr. OBL. I still remember his name, but he scared me because he had like a missing ring finger and I would like focus on that. But it was, it was probably, you know, why I just swam because I wanted. He was so kind and so encouraging. I still remember, you know, him just saying, you know, we're going to make it across the pool and being so encouraging. And, um, and that's where I learned, um, and it was all good, you know, good memories, um, of that, um, but also being in the Philippines. Our vacations or weekends were spent in the beach, you know, with extended family, aunts and uncles, you know, Lola and Lola which are our grandparents. And you know, we'd all be there with cousins and you know, um, my mom would take me. I remember just being held by her in the, in the ocean. And I remember feeling sand on my feet, like, oh, what's that? And you know, it's a, I called it the monster, but it was kind of a fun monster, you know. Um, but I remember a wave coming over us and who knows how big that wave was. But when you're little, you're like, oh, it's a big wave. Um, but so we'd go to the beach, uh, you know, and swim in the ocean. Well, I beheld because I was still little, but then we moved to California when I was age seven. And um, you know, we go to the beach, but because my mom was not familiar, you know, it's all new territory for her, you know, coming from the Philippines. And we go to the beach, but we couldn't get in the water. We couldn't, you know, you know, it was cold. But this is also Northern California. Who knows, you know, safety? My mom is always a very, she's always very safety, you know, or either very safety conscious or very nervous, either one. Um, but we, you know, at the age of nine, um, this was up in Sacramento, my sister had joined the swim team. And I was like, gosh, I want to do what big sister did. So I wanted to join too. But my mom was always nervous. She was like, she always felt like I couldn't handle myself in the water. You know, she was like, she's just like, I wasn't sure, especially in the deep end. I'm like, mom, you know, just, I begged her, I begged her and finally she let me join. And it was great, you know, just, you know, learn how to, you know, just learned all the strokes, learned how to swim. And the one thing I really, it's funny because the, uh, the memory that sticks out the most is learning how to do butterfly, you know, how the timing is, and putting it all together. And one day it just happened. I'm like, woo hoo. And then from then on out, I became a butterflyer.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker C: And then two butterfly events. I know. Um, so, so I, you know, throughout high, um, school, swim competitively. Um, we did one open water swim up in Folsom Lake. And you know, I, I was kind of neutral about it. I didn't know whether I liked it or didn't like it. But it was cool that we got out, swam in the open water, you know, um, it wasn't, you know, nobody Knew whether it was a thing back then or not, you know, as the coach, just wanted something different. And, um. And we did it just that once. And then we, um. And then, you know, I swam all through high school and then went to college, UC San Diego. And they were D3 at the time. And I walked on and swam for ucsd, um, and that was a lot of fun because there, you know, I didn't really know what it was like to swim D1, but I always heard it was much more rigorous. And so D3 was perfect for me because it really balanced academic and, you know, being able to be on a swim team, um, that, you know, still gave it. You know, we gave it our all. We, um, you know, we competed and. But we had fun, um, without the pressure of going however many workouts, you know, D1 teams go.

Speaker B: Had you ever envisioned a future for yourself without swimming? Like, was there ever a question in your mind, like, should I go swim in college or not?

Speaker C: You know, I didn't know what to expect. You know, I didn't really. The knowledge base is very limited. You know, we didn't have, you know, the access to, you know, the Internet back then where we could find out what was happening. You just. You just get there and you inquire and you ask and, you know, um, and it's like, oh, I found out they had a swim team.

Speaker B: And so you were planning to go to college and maybe not swim, but then you found out they had a swim team. Okay, okay, cool.

Speaker C: Found out. A swim team. I'm like, okay, let's do this. And it was great because, you know, you make friends, and it was a great way to. And I was right in there. You know, there was no question whether I could make it or not, just because we all came kind of all different backgrounds, was fun, and, um, you know, went to swim meets and all that, and, um, competed in a nice, you know, fairly new pool at the time. And then our coach took us out and swam, you know, in La Jolla Shores. And that was great. I was like, wow, this is cool. You know, swimming in the ocean and, you know, all. All together. So you felt, you know, fairly safe and, um. But, you know, we didn't do it on a regular basis. I kept wanting to go back, but I didn't, you know, I wanted to go with somebody. And, um. But we were all very caught up with school and with, you know, with swimming, um, in the pool and didn't get much of a chance to just, like, venture on my own. Um, we'd go and play in the ocean. But it wasn't until, you know, after I graduated, started my career, I joined Masters and I thought I was going to just take a break for a while, but I just craved swimming. I just needed it. I took maybe a six month break and then joined Masters. Masters at ucsd. And um, Coach Sickie, um, his real name's Ron Marsakake. We call him Coach Sickie. Um, he just made it fun. It was very different from competitive swimming in high school and college.

Speaker B: It's.

Speaker C: He built a community and you know, with, with um, all of us. And you know, he got us out swimming in the ocean. We, you know, every year we'd have the Sickies Pier Cove, Pier Cove swim and everybody be out there. And um, you could wear whatever you wanted. Wetsuits, fins, paddles, you know, just being out there. So he really got us there. And you know, groups of us would then form, um, you know, little pods and go out. They. We always started from the COVID and do swims from there. And it just became a regular Friday, usually a Friday morning. And the weekend, um, just change it up from, from going to the pool, we'd swim out in the ocean. And then there were a lot of local, you know, like, events and races. One mile races, three mile races, The La Jolla. The Jolla Rough water. So you do a lot of that. Um, and that was a lot of fun. And the one year where I realized I could tolerate the cold, I think probably was my first three mile rough water. Cove, Pier Cove. Where, um, when is that? That was, I want to say, 1993.

Speaker B: Wow. Okay. And what month of the year is that? I feel like.

Speaker A: I know.

Speaker C: Oh, it's um, September. Like September.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Weekend after Labor Day.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: And. And there'd be just tons of swimmers and it was cold. It was in the low 50s. And I remember one swimmer, other friend of mine, who had triathlon experience, she says, drink a lot of water the day before. Just, you know, make sure you're well. And so I did that and you know, I was fine. And I think I got top three or first or I won it because everybody else got pulled out because of the. I mean, I guess, you know, my husband was up there watching. He said, you know, um, yeah, a lot of folks had, you know, had to bail out. They got rescued by lifeguards to exit the swim. So I'm like, hey, you know, um,

Speaker B: it didn't bother you at all? Did you think anything of it?

Speaker C: Wow, I didn't. I felt good. It felt I'm like, this is fine, you know, and I didn't feel cold, really cold. I don't remember feeling really cold afterwards. And, you know, so that always stuck with me. Every time, you know, there's cold water, drink a lot beforehand, make sure you're well hydrated. Um, but also just little things you learn along the way, you know, um, and knowing, just preparing for swimming in, in the open water and in the ocean is, you know, I try to eat something beforehand to make sure things are working internally, and that kind of helps for me. This is my own personal belief. For me, it works, you know, to just kind of warm up your core there, you know, internally, and then you're kind of ready to go. And certainly, uh, is, you know, entering the cold water, just taking those deep breaths, um, and starting off fairly steady, and then things just kind of just warm up from the inside out.

Speaker B: Interesting. I never, never had thought that before. I love that. I'm curious. It just popped in my head. What did your mom think of this? Like, so you're going, you know, you swim high school. Like, she obviously lets you kind of get into the swimming world and then you start open water swimming. What does she think about that?

Speaker C: Well, she really didn't understand or recognize the open water swimming until, um, probably till I moved her down here to live in San Diego, which was about three years, three, four years ago.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, she didn't really understand it. I mean, I could talk to her about it. Um, you know, she was just like, you know, Michelle is just doing her thing down in San Diego. Um, and then when I did my swims and she got to see some video footage of them, did it actually click and she realized, oh, that's what you do. Um, because in her world, you know, swimming was in a pool. She'd not.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: She did not really swim open water. Um, you know, her swimming was strictly the pool. You know, training. Training for the Olympics, all of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's kind of why I asked this. You know, I just think it's. It's an interesting thing. What, like to have that. To have. Yeah, for her, you know, to have. Just have that. Like, uh, in that. What was it, 70? Like, what Olympics did she go to?

Speaker C: Uh, 56. 56 in Melbourne.

Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, that's. Yeah, swimming was different in 50s.

Speaker C: Yeah. And. And you know, she didn't even know where the English Channel was, so I had to do, you know, for instance, you know, where would be swims or, you know, we're at.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: But you know, she asks about it every time now, though, you know, she likes hearing about, did you swim in the pool? Did you swim in the ocean? You know, or even did you swim today? So she's always asking now. Now that she knows, you know, what my, my world is about.

Speaker B: So cool. For some reason, there's more questions about your mom popping in my head. But take us back too. So you do the La Jolla rough water swim and you find out you've got this cold comfort. Like you're fine in the cold. You've got these new little tricks that you've working for yourself to make yourself warm on. Where does this cold comfort take you?

Speaker C: Well, I mean, it's, um. I had a friend of mine who Tom Hecker. He was always trying to get us to do long distance swimming because he was the one in our group that would do, you know, the channel swims, and he would tell us about it, and we just thought, you know, he's crazy, man, and crazy Zimmerman. Um, we train with him, you know, because he'd always invite us. He had set up a really nice schedule, you know, especially when he was doing laps back and forth, so we'd swim with him. And he was always trying to get us to do these longer swims. So finally one year, I think I wanted to try it out. We were, we were all going to Maui for the Maui Channel relay, and three of us said, hey, just, you know, off the cuff, let's just do a solo tandem solo, the three of us unofficial. So we hired, you know, we hired this guy, took us across, and I'm like, wow. I mean, those are warmer waters, of course, but as far as swimming the distance and swimming that length, it's 10 mile distance. I'm like, wow, this is really. I could keep going. After we finished, it felt really good. Um, I think I did worse on the relay, but as far as swimming directionally, um, but as far as the solo swim, it was great. Um, my poor husband, who was trying to feed all three of us, was the one having a hard time, you know, feeding the fish on the other side. But bless his hearty, he promised he would never do that again. I said, that's okay. So he doesn't ever go on my long swims. Um, and then after that, my, um, friend Steve, who I had, uh, done that Maui crossing with, one of the friends I did it with, he, um, asked me to be on his crew for his Catalina crossing. And so I went on that and, you know, he had beautiful conditions, you know, so I'm like, oh, this looks great. Sign me up so I could do this. Um, so I signed up to swim Catalina, and, um, started training for that. And, you know, of course, my vision or my visual of that swim was in these beautiful, smooth conditions. And, of course, my swim was itself. You know, I remember taking. You know, taking the boat across, and, um, you know, I had all these people on my crew team. They were all. You know, some of them were getting sick. They couldn't even help me get ready.

Speaker B: Oh, wow. Wow.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was kind of crazy. Um, you know, I had. You know, my kayakers were all trying to get ready because it was as we. As we were boating over to the start, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this feels really comfy. I could hardly sleep. And when you get to the COVID part where you start, it's not as. It's not as crazy until, of course, you get out more. And, um, so that's what happened. And, you know, the captain was like, yeah, last night we took the swimmer out. He had great conditions. You know, I'm like, okay, you know, getting all psyched up, and it was like, complete opposite. Um, but in a sense, it was good, you know, to have had those conditions, because I'm like, okay, it's not always going to be smooth sailing, you know, and, um, anything from here could either be the same or better. If it's. If it's worse, it's worse. But I know I could. I could get through this. Um, you know, of course, the first swim you do, every rookie mistake, you know, like, you keep looking up, thinking that's the land and it's really just fog. And you're like, isn't it just right there? You know, you start asking, how much further? And, you know, they all, you know, all my support crew value. You don't tell them. You know, you just keep encouraging. And, um. But you know what? I just. I said, I am not training for this again. I'm just going to keep going. I'm not going to. You know, this is a financial investment as well, an investment in time. I want to get there. I wanted. My driving force was to have a seat at the table at the banquet. Right? Banquet they have every year. I'm like, I want to be able to go. And so, um, it's funny, these little things that. That you think about that keep you going. And, um, yeah, you started to tell

Speaker B: us about it being bumpy, and, um, you got to the COVID but I feel like you missed the part where you made the Most rookie mistakes, but it didn't, you didn't finish the first time that you were there that you did finish. Oh, you did.

Speaker C: I did finish. I did finish the swim, but it was very, it was very, oh, sorry, I jumped around. But it was a very rough sort of. Because it's still, it's so exciting to talk about. It was a pretty rough swim. And um, you know, I remember, you know, Dan Simonelli was my observer at the time and he saw when I was getting, getting low, I was just, you know, and I just needed to know. And I was out in the middle and there's these currents and they're like, Michelle, I just keep going. You know, you're gonna let these currents get a, are going to push me back. Um, trying to swim on the right side of the boat where you're not getting the exhaust, all of that, um, and just going through the night swimming. And I was familiar with swimming in the night, so that wasn't too, too bad. Um, but then I remember Dan coming in the water with me, just jumping in and just saying, you know, Michelle, it's two times to the pier and back.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: So it gave me a good sense of that, what that distance is, you know, So I, it's like, okay, just you're swimming to the covenback twice. I'm like, okay. So I just put my head down and just kept going. And then at some point, you know, the current did let out. It's like, okay, now we're moving, you know, forward. And I truly did see the land. And um, you know, of course I'm always thinking of things that will make me, that make me nervous, which is like, okay, what if, what if there's a whole bunch of rocks trying to get in? You know, um, but it wasn't the case. Um, I got in, my husband was there to greet me and he's making sure, telling everybody. Not there were a lot of people, but there's a few. Don't touch her, don't touch her. Let her be. So, um, you know, it's just. It was great to have somebody looking out for you at the end too. And then I'm like, okay. So it was, um, it was great. It was just, you know, there's no feeling, no other feeling like that except for, um, giving birth.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah.

Speaker C: I always equate my, my long swims to, to going through labor.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Although I have to say on a side note, my labor was, was fairly, um, easy compared to my swims. I was lucky in that regard. But you know, I, I was thinking, you know, throughout the swim, I'm. Yeah. I mean, some people are going through pain much longer than this. You know, I shouldn't be, you know, Um, I didn't, you know, and the other driving force, um, was knowing what it, Knowing what a feeling to, to not finish or feel like you failed at something, um, is that, you know, it's like, people will always come up. Oh, it's okay. You know, you just kind of get that little pity party. I'm like, I don't want that. You know, I can't, you know, do that. I'm like. And I just, I really thought, like, I have no reason to stop.

Speaker B: Mhm. Mhm.

Speaker C: You know, I'm not, I'm not dying, I'm not suffering. I'm not. You know, my arms are still there, my legs are still there. You know, it's kind of that, that feeling you get in your gut sometimes. And you're like, you just, you know, you're, you're contemplating giving up and then, and then you just keep going. And somehow the outlook changes. Whether it's your crew doing something fun and special for you to distract you, or you see something in the water swim under you, whether you see the jellyfish, um, or, uh, just to keep you alert and awake to distract you. Um. But yeah, there's so many things that go through your head during these swims.

Speaker B: Yeah. People always say, what do you think about? It's like, well, what don't you think about? Because you kind of have time to think about everything.

Speaker C: Exactly. I think about, you know, relationships with people, um, with everyone in my family. I think about my family members. Um, I think about what I'd like to do, where I see myself in the future. Um, you know, just. There's so many things you can think about.

Speaker B: So you, how was your landing? I feel like Catalina can be tricky. I've heard a few people talk about being like, dragged back out. Did you get a good landing?

Speaker C: There was a little bit of pushback, but, um, it wasn't as bad as I thought I was able to get in. There were a few rocks, but nothing, nothing that I would, you know, stumble upon. Um, yeah, it was, it was a little bit, but not, not too, too bad, you know. Um, so I was happy for that. I'm like, thank God. Everything else was, you know, with occurrence and the, um, and the chop and all that was, uh, it was nice to have at least something that didn't, you know, hinder you from progressing forward.

Speaker B: Right there, right there. To the finish. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have this amazing feeling of accomplishment. You get to do your. You get to attend the banquet. What, um, where. Where does this feeling of accomplishment take you?

Speaker C: Well, you know, the. The biggest thing is, um, is the confidence that it gave me, you know, at that time and even moving forward. Um, you know, I didn't tell too many people about work about it, because work. I always kept work and swimming very separate, and I didn't want. Because to me, swimming was my personal thing, and work was stressful, you know, and it's like I didn't want the two to ever mix because I liked being myself, being my own boss, per se, or not having to follow anybody else's decisions to be my thing, you know, because you get so much of that at work where, you know, um, depending on, you know, who's leading the crew, it's, you know, um, you're living or you're doing somebody else's goals, per se. You know, you're having to meet somebody else's goals, and I didn't like that. I liked having. Having a space where I had my goals, um, and where I set the pace. Um, so not a lot of people at work knew about it, but somehow word leaked out and I got back in the office, and the time I was managing, um, a group in engineering, and they had put all sorts of banners and congratulations on my, you know, the window and the door to my office. And I'm like, wow, that was really cool. Um, and one of. One of the engineers had done a whole research on the whole Catalina swim, and so he knew about it. And so I would say that was. That was special, you know. Um, and I think, um, in some regard, I think people kind of looked at me differently than that. Um, you know, it's just like there's more to her than a boss or an employee or whatever, because I really didn't share so much about that. People know I swam.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: But, you know, I didn't really tell him m. Too much about what I was going to do until, like, maybe the day before. I'm going to be off for the next couple days because I'm doing this, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. So did it change your work world at all? You said you people looked at you a little differently.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think for me, it gave me the confidence because I was one that, um, I'm just a person that doesn't always have confidence. You know, it's like I'm always, you know, I doubt sometimes my abilities, and I know it's there. Um, but sometimes, you know, somebody will say something or you read or whatever. And my gosh, you know, am I, am I here where I should be? Am I doing the right. So in some regards, it kind of, it gave me that bit of confidence and um, and I know there's, there's a saying that I always, always think about, um, is to do something that scares you a little bit every day to help build up your confidence, provide, you know, it's. It, you know, and anytime there's like a safe space to do that, I take advantage of that. Um, you know, whether it's going through the caves in the COVID area where it's, you know, it's like, oh, okay, something a little scary, you know, or, you know, or talking to somebody new, you know, sometimes it's hard to like open up a conversation or. And that just to keep the confidence building. Um, but I also equate a lot of difficult times with that swim. Um, I can get through some difficult times. If I got through that, I can get through these other difficult swims or tasks or what, Happy, affordable. And it was, it helped to talk to people because, you know, um, my team, my group would come and ask me about it because a lot of them were also, um, triathletes or runners or it got them to set goals.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker C: That's actually the part that I liked about it because they're like, okay, you know, um, they wanted to know time management, how to, you know, do your, do your sport, do your thing and work or be a mom or be a dad, you know, balancing family, you know, your athletic sport and work. How do you balance all three? So it wasn't just about the swim, but it was all about that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. You're inspiring people.

Speaker C: Yeah. And you don't realize it.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Until it happens and you stop and go, okay, this is a good thing.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting to me just to hear you reflect on it. Just that like, you know, you didn't initially share that kind of part of yourself. But then, you know, once people found out, like, oh my gosh. I think I can identify with it so much just because I was. Felt like I was really. Yeah. Like my work life and swim life were so independent of one another. Um, yeah. So it just really, really resonates with me. But it's interesting. We forget just with that little lack of confidence, we forget how just the sharing and being our authentic self, like in all those settings, like how much it can, how you can learn it and grow Together and inspire people to get out of their shell. And so it's a, it's cool though that you're able to have that impact on people. That's awesome.

Speaker C: I'm like, okay, this is fun, you know, and then folks are like, can you give a talk about it or like an inspirational talk about it or I want to see the show or the video footage of what this looked like. Because again, it wasn't something at that time I don't think anybody in my company ever knew about or did. Um, you know, I know people. A lot of people were runners, a lot of people were triathletes, but not really swimmers to that capacity.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And so it was kind of foreign for them and they kind of wanted to know about it, you know, some. And um, so it was, it was definitely fun to share. And you know, for, for my daughters at the time, you know, they're both swimmers as well. Um, definitely that was a criteria to teach them from an early age. And they both have, you know, they both were, you know, they both are still very athletic. Um, and, you know, my younger daughter, you know, um, was swimming on swim team at that point. And you know, some of the kids found out about it and they're like, can you help us? We want to do a, um, relay across Catalina. I'm like, okay. They're like, can you help us sign up and how to go all about it. So I think it was a year or two years after that swim, I got to organize, you know, help them and talk to their coaches and, you know, come up with, you know, their training plan. Um, really they, you know, they were good enough with, you know, strong enough swimmers to do it. You know, being on this, on, on the swim team, you know, working out every day. They just needed to be familiar with swimming out in the ocean. And so we made it a really big fun deal for them. You know, we had them night swimming and we had like, some of the master swimmers come out with them, um, to swim at nighttime. That's so cool. And you know, they were, it was so much fun. And you know, um, one of the dads did a bio on all of them and um, then they did their swim and they had talk about pristine conditions when they did their swim.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker C: And I was kayaking for them and it was great. They enjoyed it. Um, my daughter was on that team and she, um, she just got stung by the jellies.

Speaker B: Oh man,

Speaker C: she was a trooper. And they were all, all troopers. They just, they got out there, were so excited you know, their, their coaches were actually on the boat, you know, watching them swim. And um, so it was fun, you know, it was great because they also, you know, they were able to give most motivational talks to, you know, they did a presentation and you know, and I'm hoping it, you know, it stuck with them. And you know, we made sure that they sent out all the thank you notes. They got interviewed by, you know, um, by media. So it was, they had a lot of fun doing that.

Speaker B: That's cool. And you helped kick, you kick that off by starting doing it yourself.

Speaker C: And then we did a moms, the moms of the relay, we all did a relay together.

Speaker B: That's awesome. I love that.

Speaker C: And then that was the following year, then the following year after that. My dog Mia, my youngest daughter, she's like, she and her friend Eloise are like, we want to swim across Catalina. I'm like, okay, you have to check with your coaches because it's much more than just relay because you're going to have to put in some long swims which, um, I know can change your strokes and your technique and it's very different than racing in the pool.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Um, but I remember my daughter at that stage in her life was like, I need a confidence boost this point in my life. I'm like, okay. Um, so she and her friend Eloise, they stuck together, they swam in tandem, you know, cross Catalina. Um, I remember sometimes, you know, you know, seeing. I could see my daughter's face, just some of the things that are going through her head and she was wearing dark goggles so I couldn't really see her crying. But she knew afterwards and, but they're in, in no way would she have ever wanted to quit. You know, I just know her, you know, she's, this is something they, they did and set out to do. And um, it was, you know, at the end it was really just kind of. I love that more than my own swim, you know, just like, it was fun, you know, to celebrate with, um, them, um, and see their joy, you know, I think they were 16 and 17 at the time, you know, doing that swim.

Speaker B: Um, that's amazing. But I feel like your journey didn't end after Catalina. Where did you go next?

Speaker C: Well, it took me, it took me a while to, because I, you know, Tom was always again, almost like, what are you gonna do your next swim? You know, I'm like, well, I gotta wait till I'm retired. I have all these things that I need to do. And I was in a job That I was traveling, you know, quite a bit. And I'm like, you know, I need to be in a spot where, you know, can, I can actually train. And you know, um, so it wasn't until like eight years later, um, it always takes somebody to really plant the seed. My friend Amber was like, hey, I'm gonna do the English Channel. Wanna do it too? I'm like, okay. So we trained together because the thought of being able to train with somebody was really, really nice. And I have to say, during the times when I would do some of these longer swims and longer training swims, it was always with, you know, always with guys. I mean, nothing wrong with that, but I really missed that female companionship of, uh, being able to swim with other women and being able to sit and have a dedicated schedule. Hey, we're going to meet here and go do this. And um, you know, because in the industry that I was working, it was all, you know, mostly male and I'm like, I just need female company. And to be able to swim with somebody would be great. And slowly, you know, I was especially training for the English Channel. I met more and more women, um, who would come out and train and swim. I'm like, finally. So it was great to develop some new friendships. Um, my friend Annika in particular just, you know, met her, um, you know, later in life and we'd become, you know, really good friends. Um, she came and supported my English Channel swim during pandemic. Um, but, you know, I trained for English Channel. Took me a year and a half. I trained it, you know, seriously, for a year and a half. We, and my friend Amber and I did around Coronado as our qualifier.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Um, and then, um, after that, you know, we just kept training and then the pandemic hit and I said, I'm going to take my chances. I'm just going to keep going as though, you know, with the hopes that things are going to be better. At that time, um, it was scheduled for June of 2021. My, um, friend Amber, um, you know, she said, you know, I really, at this time, it's time to start a family. So she's going to reschedule for some other time in the future. Um, but you know, I thank her for just like really encouraging me and just getting me on the path to setting that as a goal. Um, so I just kept going and then, you know, of course I just kept reading about other people swimming during pandemic. Um, you know, it was nice that, you know, yes, our oceans closed for a while. Um, and you know, I had. There was a group of us that would do our little sneaky swimsuit. Um, like 4:35 in the morning when it was dark, we'd head down to the COVID Don't tell anybody, okay? So we kind of step over the fence, the gate, and one by one we get in the water. We didn't even put our lights on, but it was a time we had, we had red, I remember we had red tide at the time so we could see, you know, the bioluminescence.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: So that was cool. And it was, it was kind of eerie because it was very quiet, you know, and we would just go one at a time. One, you know, like we'd leave five minutes apart and we'd all sneak back out, you know, um, before, you know, we'd have light. And you know, it's like it was kind of, I don't know, it was kind of fun breaking the law a little bit. But like, you know, looking back on it now, of course you're like, oh my gosh, that was really silly. But my daughters were like, because we were all together in the house and they'd be like, mom, you're going to get caught. You know, it's a thousand dollar fine. I'm like, I'm going to take my chances. So it was fun and it was like, um, this big secret, but that kept us going. And then the pool open. And Siki was great because he was very creative in how he got folks back into the pool. Um, we had 20 lanes and two to a lane and he had individual workouts at the end of the pool. Um, so he got it in, um, you know, slowly and it really built that up. So it was, it was great to actually be able to go to the pool again, um, just to get the technique down and, um, doing some speed work and then also the ocean. But I realize now that I probably over trained for the English Channel, um, because there was a, there was a point when I was doing really well. And then I. And um, just because I was so nervous, I wanted to make sure that I could last through it. And I realized when I signed up for June that the water temperature was going to be pretty low. And um, I don't know what I was thinking, but um, I said, oh, there's a spot open which is usually reserved for relays. But I took it. And uh, luckily the COVID and the training conditions were perfect for that. We had a cold winter. We had a lot of, you know, mid, mid to high 50s, um, sometimes dipped into like 52 training. Um, so that really actually helped. So when English Channel came, I had to go to. I had to be there for three weeks because we had to quarantine. And my friend, my friend Annika, she joined, um, you know, originally I had like a team of four or five people coming with me. But then cut that down to Annika, join me. And then my daughter Mia came. Um, she had a break from school. She was flying in from Boston, so she came and those two were my crew. And that's where I also met my friend Catherine Stefanuti, who, you know, she was very instrumental in like, really making me feel at home. She had good connections with the boat captain, um, Eddie Spelling. So, you know, she would, um, work with him, um, because she just has great connections and um, very nice demeanor. So she knew how to get them to talk more about when's the swim gonna happen. And so he kept getting pushed out. Cause the conditions would be good and realizing that the conditions have to be good, get there and be able to come back. So I didn't really understand that because we were swimming in Dover in the, um, harbor there. And I'm like, oh, these look smooth. Why aren't we going out today?

Speaker B: Yeah, ye.

Speaker C: You don't know what's beyond the walls there. And you know, Catherine was great about explaining all that to me. And finally we had like two days left of my window.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker C: I was getting really nervous. And, um, I, I called Eddie. I said, eddie, it doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to be safe, you know. Cause he doesn't. He didn't know my swimming abilities, you know. And um, I said, just as long as it's safe, I'm good. So he, you know, and also, you know, my friend Abby Fairman from back home really just mentally talked to me because, you know, we heard about the Dover coaster and the emotions you get. You're gonna go, you're not gonna go. You're gonna go, you're gonna. So, um, you know, it was the full, full window and had been there two and a half weeks already, so. And he says, okay, we have an 18 hour window tomorrow. So I'm like, let's go. So what was nice about my window time is that I got to start at 6am and it was Solstice M. So I had the longest day of the year. And, um, it started out pretty calm. I had really nice conditions, um, pretty much all the way through. During the center middle area, it got foggy. And then the last three miles is where you know, that 18 hour window was starting to close. Um, and. But you know, I just put my head down and swam. And the temperature of the water range between 54 and 59 for that crossing. Um, you know, it's great because there was, you know, the hot water on the boat was wonderful to just help, you know, warm, warm me up. I just pour at the back of my neck. Um, my crew members, I think the only thing they remember me being snarky about was telling them I want more FaceTime. I wanted to see their faces.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And um, it's really helped because you say give me a rash after that, you know, like FaceTime. Like yes, I want to see.

Speaker B: Yeah. So.

Speaker C: And then I remember, you know, the last three miles, you know, I was supposed to swim right next to the boat and the currents were pushing me. I couldn't get close enough. And remember Annika just like really getting angry at me. Like, get in here. Oh my God. And then out of the corner of my eye I see one of the boat crew, Michael, head to the back of the boat towards the dinghy. And I'm like, am I almost there? Because I remember my friend Steve telling me he had Eddie for a um, captain too. He says that the last 500, they get to the. And they dinghy, they take you in, is he. And oh my gosh, the leap of joy in my heart when I saw him get to that dinghy. And I'm like, I'm there. And um, and you know, what was going through my head was. I think it was Frida Streeter who coined it swim till you're. I'll say bits. Till you hit the sand. Until your bits hit the sand. Right. And sure enough, you know, kept swimming and I landed on a beautiful beach in Boisson.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: And um, and my friend Catherine had arranged for um, Steve, um, Stevenart to meet me with his partner. And they were there, they greet me. I didn't expect this at all.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: But they were. It was such a joyous couple that greeted me on the beach. The video footage, pictures, everything. And wow. They got my, you know, souvenir rock. And um, that swim is definitely my most memorable swim. And that was really only two or three channels into it. Um, you know, I didn't really set out for triple Crown or Ocean7 or anything. I'm just like, I'm just gonna take these one at a time. Um, and so that was, that was, I love that swim for that reason. It was just so. Because of all the emotion and just how it turned out and. Because the whole time I'm thinking he's gonna stop me because my window's closing. But, you know, he. He saw that I was. I was doing it head down, going in, and, um, you know, definitely coming back was more of an adventure on that boat.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, it took us nine hours to head back.

Speaker B: Oh, wow.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, there were some fuel issues with the engine that, you know, Eddie had really tried. Tried his darndest to, um, fix. But, you know, he. His commitment. His commitment was to get me across, which. Which he did. And he got us back, you know, safely. Um, and so I'm really, really happy about that. Yeah, it took nine hours to get back. Like, I kept thinking to myself, and of course, that 18 hour window had closed and we were sloshing around in the middle of that channel.

Speaker B: Oh, man.

Speaker C: And I remember Mia just holding on to me so I wouldn't roll off the bunk, you know, and just that feeling of nauseousness. I'm like, can you do this? Wait a minute. It just, you know, continues. But, you know, when we got back, it was like. When we finally, you know, got back safe and sound, it was almost exactly 24 hours from when we left. Um, it was. Yeah, it was then that it was just like I could. I mean, we slept. We slept hard, um, and

Speaker B: woke up

Speaker C: and had bangers and mash for dinner. Hit the spot.

Speaker B: I'm curious, though. You talked so beautifully about the confidence that you got from the first swim. So then you go and you do it again. What. What's your feeling after, you know, doing it twice? Is it more? Is it, you know, more confidence or different confidence? Because it's a, you know, a more renowned channel. You know, like, what. What does, um. Yeah, what is that like on the inside?

Speaker C: The same, if not more. It also felt just a lot of confidence because at this point in my career, I had been working for the company. For my company for 31 years. And I was managing a different group that I never got to meet as a group because, um, again, the job that I was in at that time, it was intended to travel. Um, I was an operations manager, and I was supposed to travel by car all over the, uh, Western United States. And my team, um, we always met on Zoom on video, and, um, didn't ever have an opportunity to bring them together as a team. But we share about this. And I, um, did tell them shortly before I did, this is where I'm going to be. And the three weeks there, I was working before having just changed up our schedules you know, everything was, I mean, it was a, you know, you had to be on the clock pretty much all the time. Um, so, you know, when they heard about it, you know, they were, they were as, they were equally inspired. You know, one of, one of my team is like, yeah, I'm going to be riding. I think he was doing a, ah, pretty like 100k mountain bike ride or something that he had signed up for. He goes, you really inspired me. So again, it was cool to be able to like, inspired. I wouldn't say anything, but then we'd meet with customers and, you know, at the end of our meetings, you know, somebody would say, oh, by the way, do you know she's smiling English Channel. And it become this whole conversation. I'm like, yeah, you know, I don't, you know, and people get interested. And actually one of our customers said, hey, look, can you come out and give a motivational speech, talk to our, to our sales team? And, um, so I put one together and, you know, it's, it's fun because they always, it actually helped with my presentation skills because we always had to do that. You know, part of our jobs is to do that, um, was to, you know, do presentations. And when you're talking about something you're super excited about and passionate about, it's, you know, it just all comes through. And they always had lots of questions and that was a lot of fun. I had fun doing that. And um, yeah, but also, But I would have to say what that swim really triggered because again, it was like, okay, it was a point in my career. I'm like, okay, I'm not 100% happy. You know, not. They have to be 100% happy. But I don't feel like I am going anywhere if I was feeling kind of stuck. And I'm like, so I've done this, this and this and this. And I always promised myself that I was not going to bruise my head trying to break through the glass ceiling. Um, and so I said, it's time. You know, I am not going to wait for anybody to tell me to go. Um, you know, unfortunately, in the industry that I'm in, or maybe this could apply to other industries. I'd been with a company for 32 years. You know, once you reach your 50s, um, you know, even though you, you really work through it, you know, you went through your career having kids, you know, balancing your life, you're doing everything that they, you know, tell you to do. Checking all the boxes. Something about being a woman in your 50s can kind of it. I don't know, either they lose confidence in you or something, but I was like, my kids were in college. I'm like, I'm ready to give it my all. And. And nobody was taking. I'm like, okay, fine. You know, I'll channel my passions and my skills elsewhere. So I retired. I was. I had enough years to retire. Had all the. Everything lined up to do so. And I also recalled a goal that I said to myself when I first started my career that I wanted to retire in my mid-50s. I'm like, well, shoot, here I am. Yeah, why not?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, um.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: Yeah, so I did. And, um, it was all, you know, um, I would say, you know, certainly a lot of thinking about that went and through my head during the channel swim. Um, so I had planned it all out and um. Yeah, and it's, you know, no. No regrets about that. And it's allowed me or has enabled me to, you know, I started, you know, coaching masters and Siki was like, are you ready to coach? Like, yeah, let's do it. You know, So, I mean, it's fun because it's like once. It's really a once a week commitment, but we, you know, cover for each other. There's a team of us coaches that coach in the evenings. And it was a fun way to get to know, um, you know, the swimmers, you know, from that side of the. The pool deck having, um, had done the channels a lot, you know, the swims. You know, there was that, um. There was that element of trust and confidence in me, which was. Which was great. Um, and, you know, anybody wanting to do long, long swims, you know, they talk with them about it, um, encouraged them to do it. So. Because they knew that I had that experience, which is fun. It was. It's a nice way to. To continue that, you know, that, uh, that goal or that journey or that adventure is to share it with other people. So that's been fun. You know, I do that as my retirement job and I've been retired for like four years now. And it's. It's been great because I also teach swimming to, you know, sixth graders at, uh, the charter school down street from ucsd. That's a lot of fun. Um, and a great. And a great way to learn new terminology, you know, with their. With their languages these days.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So that's been a lot of fun just being able to do more of what I love to do and um, to coach it, to teach it, to relearn, um, it also m. So, yeah, I Knew I'd over trained for the English Channel because I saw just my speed and strength kind of go on a decline. I, um, just continued to swim through a lot of that and just, you know, um, and then my friend Kelly said, hey, wanna swim? Says again, it was in 2022. I'm like, okay. And we were all about saving money, so we're like, hey, let's do it. Let's do it. Tandem. And she and I were at the same speed at the time we started. And then she got stronger, but she was so, so patient with me. She's like, michelle, we're doing this together. And we swam around Manhattan. And, um, you know, she's. She's taken off and then her. A lot of her. Her swims, but, you know, it was so nice to have done that with her. And, um, you know, we stuck together. Um, and she would. She. We did a night swim around and had. And she would pop up. You know, she'd pop up and look around and, oh, that's that. And that's that. And it was just, you know, all the lights were out for me. It was like, just, just, just go. Let's just go. And I wish I would have stopped and really taken the time to really enjoy that more. Um, but, you know, certain parts of my shoulders were hurting or whatever, and I'm like, I really need to get, get this, get this over with. Um, and I kept running into my kayaker too. So that was fun.

Speaker B: Oh, man.

Speaker C: But when the finish came, my gosh, it came fast. It was like, oh, okay, there it is. And it was fun because we celebrated, you know, I got my little crown. And she really made it very special for me.

Speaker B: That's lovely.

Speaker C: And so that was fun. And then, uh, we both, um, signed up for the distance of Tahoe, Lake Tahoe. So we both did it. We both did that separately a couple months later. Um, and that's when I knew I really needed to change my stroke. Because, number one, it's a lake swim, right? So there's no salt. And I found myself working so hard on my feeds because I didn't have that buoyancy. But I also thought, you know, in. In your repertoire of different swims, you should try different elements. You know, salt, non salt, heavy salt, whatever. And, um, you know, I had such beautiful conditions, you know, um, and just all around. Um, but again, because my shoulder was in such pain, I didn't enjoy it. M. And by the end, the last few miles, Abby was my friend. Abby's like, you know, Michelle, you Were swimming vertically? Yeah, it was a vertical finish, like. Oh. Um, so needless to say, um, I, you know, I went and got my shoulder checked out and sure enough I had a torn rotator cuff. So I said, okay, I've got to fix this if I want to continue. And I had already signed up for around Jersey swim. And um, I was really excited about that swim, but I knew I didn't want to do it in pain. I wanted to enjoy it.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And so I had my surgery done a year, exactly a year before I was finished. So I gave myself a year to heal, recover and get in enough shape to do that swim and just really tried to focus on longer strokes, keeping my head down. Um, a friend of mine had talked to me about some of the techniques used in total immersion swimming. So I was trying to implement that without really getting formally coached. I would just make sure my shoulders were feeling good. Having also coach sicky look at my stroke. And I started training based on time versus distance.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Because with around, uh, Jersey it's 41 miles. You can't train for miles for that type of swim because you know, it's a current assistant. You're not going to swim it any longer than the tide shifts. So you know, I was banking on a 12 hour swim. I said, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna train based on time. And so that's, that was a whole different method and way of thinking of training. And I realized I loved that. I really liked training for time. I trained more by myself for that swim. Um, um, m. And you know, um, which was fine. And I don't even feel like I. Because it was such a gradual training process. I don't feel like I overtrained at all. As a matter of fact, I think it was just the right amount. And when I did that so much, I enjoyed it. I actually really enjoyed it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And uh, I did enjoy elements of the others. But as far as being able to stop and smell, um, the roses for as much as I could because I had to stay with the current of course. But um, you know, I had um, you know, Catherine and Annika supporting the boat. They were, they made it so much fun. Um, I had a, you know, really good captain, good pilot. And when I finished the swim, I'm like, wow, this is, this was great. You know, my shoulder felt good and I said, I need to keep this up. I need to be able to swim this way out. Shoulder pain. And I needed more of it. That's when Katherine had told me about Swim mastery and you know, swimming with her. Take a look at it. You know, it's um, and that's, you know, I did more research on it and then, um, you know, because I started to feel the pain in my shoulder come back. I'm like, ah, this, this can't be happening. I want this never again, you know?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: So I, um, so I went to, you know, the camp, Tracy's camp, where I met you and um, just, wow. Just blew me, blew me away. Just opened my eyes. I'm like, wow, I can keep doing this. And um, and I love just the, you know, training based on time, distance. Um, yeah, it's. So unfortunately I am now off because I have, I had, you know, foot, ah, surgery. I'm off in the next 12 weeks. It was like I got this little blip. It was like in a moose bush. You know, I'm like, I really want more of it.

Speaker B: Um,

Speaker C: um, but I'm looking forward to going back and again getting more of that training in that manner and then using the new techniques. Um, and always, always room for improvement.

Speaker B: So definitely it's the biggest gift I think that I've gotten from. I mean there's so many. But uh, like just really thinking of the lifelong, lifelong learning, which it doesn't. I mean, I don't think I've ever thought of myself as close minded or shut down or like that I was, you know, limiting myself. But it's just really, it's really interesting when uh, the technique complements the desire to understand your capacity. The way that like we do is kind of, I think of, I don't know, I could go on about it, but anyway, it was, uh, so amazing to meet you and Loreto and um, really, really, really appreciate you sharing your story with us. Michella, thank you so much. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thanks so much for spending part of your day here listening to stories from the water. I know there are thousands of things vying for your time and attention. So the fact that you choose to be here, to tune into these voices, these experiences, truly means a lot. Stories help us understand ourselves, connect with others and make sense of this wild, beautiful world. They're more than entertainment. They're lifelines, they're bridges. And sometimes they're the spark that keeps us moving forward. If this episode spoke to you, if it made you feel something or see things differently, I'd love it if you left a review on your podcast provider or shared it with someone who might need it too. That's how these stories ripple out and reach the people who need the most. Until next time. Take care and thanks for listening.