Lev Goldberg's Swim Story

Where land meets water, an invitation lingers, not just between elements, but between versions of yourself. You could remain on shore where it's safe, familiar, predictable. Or you could cross into the unknown. Shannon. I'm Shannon Keegan, and this is Stories from the Water, where we dive into the courage it takes to begin, the resilience that keeps us moving forward, and the wisdom that only emerges in the space between. Hey, Lev, how are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for coming, Shannon. Thank you. I'm really excited. Tell me, Lev, what's your relationship with the water? So I started swimming at a young age. So I was in, like, Mommy and Me, Daddy and me, baby swim classes. So I don't remember not knowing how to swim. And I always loved it. I remember, like, the Little Mermaid was my favorite movie, and I believed I was a mermaid. So, like, I'd spend a lot of time in the pool underwater, just playing. And I was always like, in. At summer camp, they test you for, like, the swimming levels, and I'd always get the highest one. And so my parents put me in swim team when I was like, seven, and I did swim team when I was like, ages 7, 8, 9. And then I stopped. So I liking that very much. I didn't like exercise, and I was very uncomfortable in my body. Like, the tight swimsuit. I felt like a bit chubbier than the other kids that I realized I was transgender in my early 20s transition. But that time I didn't. That was impossible. So looking back, I'm like, I probably had. I had some gender dysphoria as well, some discomfort in my body that was related to that. And so I was also not like a great, like, swim team. Like, I was not like the fastest kid. I was always like B team. And all I remember is that backstroke was my number one stroke that I was really good at. So. But I always thought the one hour swim practice was super long. So my most vivid memory is just like watching the clock. Like, when is the swimming gonna be over? Like, the swim meets were so long. And yeah, when I. I stopped swim team when I was 9, and I never really did any athletics until adulthood. After that, I did still, like, love, love the water. So my family would always go. I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia and we would go to Cape May and the Jersey Shore. And I love being in the ocean and jumping in the waves. And, like, I remember as a kid, like, thinking that I was. It was very, like, like astonishing. And I remember thinking I was like, playing jump rope with God Jumping in the waves and. Yeah, I also would go, like, to lakes occasionally when I was a teenager. I had a boyfriend at the time whose family's from the Adirondacks, and they're very outdoorsy. And I have some really formative memories of, like, when we go visit his family. Like, even if we got there at night, I'd be like, we have to go in the lake, like, first thing, like, at night even, and. Or I have a really vivid memory of, like, being in Lake Champlain and, like, looking out when I was maybe 18 and being in the water and looking and not seeing the end and just thinking it was so, like, magical. But I didn't get in a lap to. Or I didn't get in a pool to swim laps at all. I didn't own goggles. I didn't have an athletic bathing suit. I didn't do any real, like, swimming as a. As a pursuit until I was 27. It sounds like, though, you. That. Well, yeah. You had a. Almost a spiritual relationship with the water, would you say? Definitely, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I love to float and, like, feel held by the water. And I loved the idea of open water. And I. I also noticed, like, whenever I'd go to the ocean or, like, a lake, like, other people would be on the beach, I would be in the water, and they all thought it was cold, and I just never thought it was cold. So, like. And looking back, I don't know what those temperatures would have been, like, like 18, 19, but. And everyone was like, oh, God, I'm not getting in. But I was like, I. I loved it. Like, I. I really felt very comfortable. I had to peek at my conversion chart. So, like, 64, 6. 66. Like that. Yeah. So, you know, cool. But. But do a. Well, depending if you're on the, you know, English Channel end of the listeners or the, you know, there's cold water dippers that listen. So, you know, I just like to give the conversion that. It strikes me the. I guess the way that you talk about the discomfort that you felt with swim team, and yet the being held in the water like that. It's so accepting is what comes to mind for me. Do you want to speak. I mean, not that the swim team is its own thing. Right. But maybe speak more to that. That feeling that. I guess I use the word acceptance, but tell me your word. Yeah, no, acceptance is a beautiful word. Or just like, there's something very. About swimming outside that was, like, really exciting and special to me. Like, there's something a little bit like Gross about changing rooms and chlorine. No offense. People spend. So, I mean, I spend so much of my time in the pool, like, but, you know, and. And also there was always the aspect of, like, you know, changing rooms are, like, very gendered, and you have to, like, change in front of people and all this stuff. But there's something about. There's always something about being outside that just felt, like, different and a lot more exciting and not so, like, limited or, like, closed off in that way. Yeah. Unbound. And then when I began unbound. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. When I began, like, when I got back to swimming, I literally learned about open water immediately and was planning my open water journey one month into getting into a pool and even seeing if I could swim laps. So I was like, I. I was never. My end goal had never had anything to do with a pool. What. What was the spark that took you that drew you to the pool? You said you were on 27. What was the thing that you were like, oh, I'm gonna try this swimming thing again? I became a runner in my early 20s, so, like, I randomly just kind of randomly started running. And that would've been, like, 2018. Around the pandemic, I became aware of the concept of an ultra thon. And I've never run an ultramarathon, but that was really, really exciting to me. And I was like, I should run a hundred miles. I should run for 24 hours. Like, I really just loved that idea and an adventure outside, like, in the Internet kind of thing. And I never. I didn't start training for organized races till 2022, and that's when I did 2022. I signed up for my first half marathon. I did it 2023. I loved the training so much. I love training so much that before I did the race, I'd signed up for full marathon. And 2023 was, like, a big year for me because I did my first half marathon, first full marathon, and I had gotten back to the pool January 2023. So I did it as cross training and, like, a New Year's resolution. I was like, lots of runners seem to be swimming because they get injured and stuff. And I was not a stranger to having, like, a knee injury here and there. So I was like, that would be, like, a good way to, like, remember how to swim laps, whatever. My dad had been doing lap swimming, like, for fitness maybe for, like, 10 years. Like, he was never a swimmer growing up. He did it just when he had some, like, I think, back problems in his late 50s, early 60s. And so he gave me a hand me down athletic bathing suit didn't really fit me, but that was enough. And I, yeah, went to Canadian Tire, got some goggles. Canadians know what that is. It's like not, it's not a swimming store. I um, but it's where I found goggles. And yeah, I got in the pool and I kind of remembered immediately like, and I had all this aerobic fitness from like running really long distances. Like I had started running really long distances before I knew anything about what it takes to train for a marathon. So by the time I learned what distance is a marathon and how do you train, it turns out like I already had that, that weekly volume. So I had the fitness and I didn't know anything about swim workouts. I didn't remember swim team really. So I, I just wanted to swim for a long time. So I used the book Total Immersion to like relearn freestyle technique. Um, I haven't really changed much since then. Like it's, coaches I've worked with have said it's pretty good and it like holds off. Like there's probably, there's stuff to do. Now is not the time that I'm able to alter that too much. Cause I'm training a lot. But yeah, that I, I was just doing it as cross training and more of a two sport athlete. But I learned about open water swimming like so I started swimming January 2023, February 2023. I already had a spreadsheet of all the, of all the races in Ontario that I could do and swimming races, swimming races. And I learned about, I think the first marathon swimmer I learned about was Lynn Cox and she's also like such a prolific cold water swimmer. And so I was reading about cold water swimming and I don't know what possessed me to think that that was like good from. And that I was completely right. I had never gotten into cold water, like significantly cold water. But yeah, now I will routinely swim like maybe 20 minutes and like 5, 6 degrees or 40. 40, 40 to 45. Nice, nice. I like that you've got that off the top of your head. You're good. Yes. Originally American, so I used to know there's all the listeners are all over the world. So you know, it's good to do both. Yeah, yeah, it's good to convert. Um, but yeah, so I don't even remember what year what sparked me to get back to the pool. Yeah, it was for cross training and then it kind of took over my life because then I sort of like as soon as I, I didn't even really realize I lived next to Lake Ontario like this. So I live in Toronto. And like, I remember first moving here and when I was like 18, 17, 18, and I remember asking my boyfriend at the time like that, he was like, that is Lake Ontario. Like, never ask anyone that again. That's so embarrassing. There's a huge body of water over there, I know, literally seemingly ocean next to us or I can't see the end. Lake Ontario. And I, I knew I wanted to do opening. I found out you could swim in Lake Ontario. I found a group to swim with who I started swimming with in June of that year. But by the time I was swimming with them in June of that year, I had learned you could swim across Lake Ontario. I'd learned the history of that. I had learned, oh, there's this lady in town, her name's Kim Lumsden and she did it twice, she did it as a teenager and then in her 40s and then she was training to do it again at the time and in her 60s. And I was like, this is so freaking cool. Like, I should do that too. So I immediately like, maybe like two, three months into swimming, I was like, gonna swim across Lake Ontario. Wow. Wow, that's amazing. Well, you knew you had the stamina. It sound like you said, like, do you, I'm just curious when you were even like younger. So you mentioned, you know, like immediately being drawn to these distances. But when you were like, even like earlier, did you ever know of like that enduring that kind of capacity just to like, push and like, to what, even all nighters or. I don't know, I'm like really curious. Yeah, like what? Draw? Just because I, I, I can see to myself, I guess is why I'm asking. It's like I can remember being like 10 and looking up the world record for treading water, you know, it's just like. So anyway, I'm just wondering if there was any like, hint before all of a sudden you're just doing these crazy distances. Running. No, it's completely wild. Absolutely not. Nothing, nothing would ever suggest that like, I could actually couldn't run a mile. And I, when we did the president physical, the kid, like last finished walking the mile, I had exercise induced asthma. O. It just, yeah. And, and I would complain when we'd walk. Like my family, like, will tell you, I was so annoying. Like, my memory is, my feet really hurt, so maybe it had to do with growing, but I couldn't be made to even walk. Like it was so. It really. The reason I think maybe running stuck with me so much is because I was so shocked. I was really defying my own understanding of myself. And I. When I learned about the approach of like long slow distance to increase aerobic fitness, like that's really what I learned when I learned about ultra thoning is that these people don't push themselves really hard and run fast all the time. They just go out there for a really long time at an easy pace. And when you find an easy pace, it's a forever pace. You could do something forever. And I thought that was so cool and I love the feeling of that. So when I started swimming, I think I locked into a forever pace, which is not an uber fast pace or anything. But I locked into that quite early, so there was no reason for me to stop. Like I went out with the open water group for the first week. I think I swam like 3km on my first day and I didn't know I would do that. I just didn't see why to stop playing it. That's amazing. That's amazing. That's so cool. Okay, so take us back yours. So you find out about Lake Ontario, you're like, okay, I'm swimming across. Yeah. And well, I swim. My first summer, 2023, I signed up for like a 2.5 kilometer race and I also signed up for a 3.8 call on butter race, which is a really great race that's put on by Lake Ontario swim team out in like west of Toronto and Oakville. That year though, in 2023, it didn't end up being 3.8km because we had an upwelling and the lake turned over and it was suddenly 4 degrees. And what's so cool about that group, it's such an amazing group of people and a lot of them have swum Lake Ontario. I mean a lot, like a handful. But what's so cool about that group is I think like 150 plus people were signed up for the race and it got cold and I think like all but like one or two, like still swam it. And they reduced the distance I think to like 750, 750 meters. And that, that was such a magical experience. I, I did it in a wetsuit because they were warning like, if you're not inexperienced ice swimmer, like don't do this without a wetsuit. But that really altered my brain chemistry. I was like, oh, next time I'm not in a wetsuit. Like next time I'm doing this like full on so, yeah, that was my first summer. I think that winter I joined a swim group. Like a queer and trans focused, like, swim group, which was cool. And that's how I met my coach, Ty, who became my coach. And then they wound up asking me, like, I think. But at that point I knew I was gonna swim across Lake Ontario. I was telling my. Not my family because it would really stress out my mom, but dad and some friends of mine. I was just putting it out there. I ran my first marathon. I was like, I already had it in mind. I was like, okay, I just have to do that. You know, it's like a five hour marathon. I was like, okay, do that four more times. That's Lake Ontario. So I got it. And yeah, my second summer, I. Hold on a sec. So you run your first marathon, so running. Right, but. And you're. But you're calculating like the mental. Like Lake Ontario swimming would be like this run, but four more times, just to be clear, right? Yes, but you're. So you're thinking of it. Are you thinking of it primarily as a. The mental challenge of it or the physical challenge? Yes, I guess both. I guess both. But yeah, I think it was helping me start to wrap my head around what it was because I'd never done an athletic effort for more than five hours. Like, that was the most of time I'd ever spent on any training run, training swim or race. So I was like trying to wrap my head around over 24 hours because, yeah, I definitely always. I don't know why I always said the 24 hour number. I don't know how I knew it would be that. But the whole time, like when I was pitching it to people, explaining it, they'll say how. What is. How long does that take? Or whatever. And I would always say it will take me 24 hours. Really fast, people. It's like 15 or 16 hours. But I was like, I think It'll take me 24 hours. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. I remember the race goes by the lake. It's the. The Waterfront marathon. And I remember looking at the lake being like this, doing this. That's really cool. I just think like, just how you made the association and swimming and running, it's cool to me. I'm curious as that first summer that you're coming into these swimming events and competitions, as you mentioned, was what was that like for you as like with transgender? I don't know, did. Did you feel like you were bumping up against, I don't know, things? Yeah, yeah. It's a Good question. Like my, my experience, like being trans, I mean, it more affected me in the, in the locker room, like getting comfortable in a locker room to swim in a pool for training kind of thing. Yeah. Like I will say maybe another thing that kept me from swimming till my late twenties is I didn't have top surgery until I was like, I transitioned to my, like Maybe I was 20, but I, I just. For different reasons, insurance and stuff, I waited and so like I, I remember like I would even go to the gym to like use the elliptical and just leave sweaty. Like I would just leave sweaty in my sweaty clothes and like get on the subway like that. So post top surgery, I was like getting used to like, oh, I can change in this changing room and like it can be okay. And like no one's gonna, you know, I'm very lucky. Like no one bothered me. I'm also very lucky, you know, like, I'm not non binary. Like I feel comfortable in like men's changing rooms and like men's spaces like that or like for a race, for example, like entering the men's category. I felt very comfortable with that, especially in the open water swimming community. I. Well, here at least. I don't know if it's like this is everywhere, but it's sort of like high schoolers and then like people in their 50s plus and then like very few people in between. So I don't even worry about like, who's in my category or whatever. I've frequently won my age group just by being there. It's not even like, oh, like, am I gonna compete? It's like I'm the only man who swam three miles without a wetsuit. And so I went, He's 30. I'm like, that's it. I just went. So it's, it wasn't very like for me in my age group, which there's this like a big canyon of. There's like no one in there. I just didn't even worry about being in competition with anyone. And yeah, I found it quite, you know, for me personally, quite, quite accepting and friendly. But then again, I think a lot of people who encountered me in that setting didn't even know I was trans until I started training to swim across Lake Ontario and being very vocal that I will be the first openly trans person to swim across Lake Ontario or any great lake. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. Thank you for sharing. For sharing that. I think I've always felt like open water, like kind of like levels. It doesn't, I mean, it doesn't really depending on how short it. Whatever, like distances or whatever. But I feel like it, like it just like we're just a bunch of humans in the water. So I just. I'm. I'm. Yeah. So I just think. I think one of my first memories that like drew me into. Into marathon swimming was actually like a woman winning. Winning an event like outright and that. And it was beautiful to me to see just that there wasn't this separation and this like, I mean it's. It was still there and there was still awards given for men and women, but it, but it was just beautiful to me to just see that, you know, a woman walked up on the shore and she was the one that just. That just. This just. Just won and it. And it. I don't know, I guess that's me thinking whatever my story. No, no, I love that about the sport too. I love that about the sport. In my heart of hearts, I just believe that we're just a bunch of humans bumping around in the water, which doesn't matter what we're category how we call ourselves. So anyway, take. Take me. Take me to your. To your training. Yeah. Well, I just want to also say like in the ultra marathon space, like running and swimming, ultra marathon events in general, like gender divides do tend to fall away or even like to me when I think about the greatest marathon swimmers of all time. Like to me, like, my top five are all women. And like when you think about people who swam all five Great Lakes, which is like my goal, that's what I want to do. If I did that, if I completed that, as of now, I would be the first man of any kind to do that because only three women have swam across all five Great Lakes. And I do, I do know a really awesome guy who is working on it and he's attempting three this year. So he does that this year. He will be the first man. Congrats. That would be awesome. Knock on wood. But like, it is this sport where like these distances are. Are massive and there. There's so many external conditions and really like, it's. We are just all a bunch of humans. Different people have different advantages. Insulation from the cold is an advantage. Resilience to cold, advantage. You know, just general endurance over speed becomes an advantage. Like, it's so cool and, and I love that like, I think it's a very. In the scheme of things, the very like ungendered sport in that way. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I love that. Oh, I'm so excited for you. Okay. So thank you yeah, the training. Yeah. So my second year is 2024 and that's when I was like working with my coach and I was like, my long term goal is to swim across Lake Ontario. So I did my first 5k that year. I did my first 10k. My first 10k was Costco, unfortunately, where I won't go deeply into it, but basically the event organizers, like, didn't. Started late and didn't book the timing mat. And I got pulled out because I was only going to finish like my. I think I got pulled out at like 3 hours 15 because my finishing time is going to be like 3:40. And I was so mad, but I got, I got back in the water and finished it. Like, I got out for like 10 minutes, waited till like they cleared out their stuff or whatever. I got back in and finished it. But I mean, that day was great. I. I literally did it the 10k and was like, too bad. Four more times easily. Like, I was feeling great. No issues. I did a lot of volume that year. I. I train, like, I don't know that many people where I know the details of their training. Like, I see people like on Strava and stuff, but I really don't do a lot of speed work. I do like a little, like, I'll do like one speed workout a week and then I do long slow distance. Like, I think I train like an, like an ultra marathon runner. Like, I just get in the pool and continuously swim slow for like, you know, a couple days ago, I just did eight hours in the pool. Just back and forth, swim slow, stop every 30 minutes, train my gut, you know, have my feeling. And that's really worked for me. Like, that's really worked out super well because, yeah, my, my big year obviously was last year. My first, like, my first marathon swim. And the training went really well. The training's my favorite part. Like, it's about the training. I also learned so much about, like, promoting a swim and doing fundraising. So, like, I need you, like, be the first open trans person to do this. And it's. I don't want it to be like this, like, private achievement just for myself. Like, I want to let people into it and I want to, like, raise money to materially support my community. And I, I raised $7,000 for LGBT youth line, which is a peer support organization here in Ontario. I actually used to be a volunteer for them when I was just coming out as trans when I was 20. And they, yeah, it's great. They train youth to be like, peer support volunteers to Support other youth who share their lived experience. So it was so great to, to get the support of really like everyone in my city. It felt like. And outside my city and like in my community who was real sighted and believed in what I like crowdfund the swim and then raise money on top of that to donate. Like it was really a, a huge like learning experience for me because that was the hardest part. Like the swimming is not the hardest part. The logistics and the arranging everything and, and raising the funds, like that was the hardest part for sure. But yeah, I guess I could talk more about training but it's, it's such a big like topic. I'm curious. How about this? Let's just. Because it's a quandary in my life and it or it has been an exploration. Like how do you, you mentioned that, you know, you just had went out and trained for eight hours. How do you find that the. I guess the balance that like with. Yeah, you know, you know, like we need, you know, community and socialization and you know, some kind of, you know, land I guess. And I'm aging, you know, perimenopause woman. So I'm like in the. I gotta build bone strength because I don't want to get osteoporosis. So that's me. But so, but I'm like finding like I need a balance because if I swim too much, well, I might, I just, I can feel the shoulders, whatever. So again you're young. But, but I want all of us to be thinking like, like we need to. Yeah. I don't know that we're going to turn into mermaids if we just keep swimming. So how do we find the balance and in our lives so that we're not. I guess there's an all consuming aspect of it too where I've seen myself be pulled in and I'm like, oh, I just want to do the next thing and the next thing and I want to find balance in that respect too. It's like what could the next thing be? And then how could I also, you know, give back? You know, all the things you're talking about. So just talk to me a little bit about how you find the balance in your life. Yeah, I felt the shoulders last year. Oh my God. After my first 10 hour. So I did a 10 hour pool swim which was like the best day of my life ever. It was so fun. But um, afterwards I couldn't lift my left arm and I was having like a breakdown at that time. That was almost like one exactly one year ago because at that time I'd already like raised a lot of money. The swim. I was like, these people are paying for me to do this thing and like I might have just like messed everything up. Turns out like I just. When you swim for 10 hours, sometimes your body hurts. Sometimes like I just had to be calm and patient and like, you know, do do my physical therapy, which I hadn't been engaged with for some reason, some godforsaken reason I had not consulted a physical therapist. So this year it's a night and day difference like this, this is just on the physical aspect of balance. It's really a night and day difference between you know, eight hours and ten hours different. But I did my eight hour swim and barely any soreness, no pain like the one rest day and the next day I met swim practice swimming fun. And I am. And the things I'd attribute that to are simple physical therapy exercises prescribed for me that I do before each swim. Nice. And one strength training workout per week that my coach gave me. And like literally like just. It doesn't have to be like so much. It's just like a little bit of balancing out the physical part. And another piece I do to balance out the physical part is that I don't do. I'll do five swims a week and this week even I might be doing four and a run. So I'll do like one run a week to get some aerobic work while not doing the same repetitive movements again and again and have some of that still like land based existence because oh my God, after my swim last year I tried to go to like after my big league Ontario. So I tried to go to a run club a couple weeks later and I think I fell like three times. Scraped all the skin off both my knees. Like I had no land based like movement anymore. It was wild. So yeah, my heart rate was like 200, like not even exaggerating, like it was 200. So yeah, I think balance with other physical activity but that doesn't really answer the question of like how do you have a life? Like I have a very flexible job. Like I'm a, I'm a therapist. So like I work my full hours but I work them at different times sometimes along my clients like afternoon, evening. And this year I've really been trying to like still see my friends and like still socialize. And I really like of credit to the people in my life who understand that sometimes I go through this training period and season of life where like I can't come to them as much or all the time. Like, they need to come to me. We need to meet in the middle. We need to do something related to what I'm doing. Like, let's meet and have coffee and then go for a swim or, you know, whatever. I have found that, like, it's been easy or it's surprised me how much I've made new friends or new connections with people through swimming. Like, one friend in particular, think of, like, I had just started swimming a little bit with Lake Ontario swim team and out in Oakville, and I didn't know anything about really how the swims were done. I didn't know. Like, you kind of group up with some people and then they'll swim out and back together. I just knew that there were some people swimming around buoys close to the shore and then there were some people who kept going. So I knew that I wanted to keep. Oh. So I actually met my friend Janice because she. We had Swam for like 1km and I was just following them and she stopped and she was like, who. Who are you? And, like, I was like, oh, I'm left. And I met her out, like, in the middle of Lake Ontario. So not in the middle, but, like along the shore, like, just out there. So. And the people that are going, keeping going, right? Yeah, exactly. In the group of people doing the. I guess it must have been like a 3K. So, yeah, I've definitely connected with a lot of new people. I've had a lot of friends and, like, especially felt like gotten a lot closer to my sister through this. So. My sister's not a swimmer at all. She lives in North Carolina, nowhere near me, but she's really good with, like, websites and marketing and, like, just being organized. She's got her mba. She's a very, like, leadership leader. And then when she knew I wanted to do the Lake Ontario, so she like, sprung immediately into action. She made me a website. Website. She made the crowdfunding page. She, like. And then she came, like, stayed in Toronto, like, for my swim. And that's another story is, like, my swim got delayed quite a bit due to weather. Like, My window was August 24 to 29, and I went on September 2. And I didn't know I was going to go. But anyway, my sister and my dad were here with me while I was having a nervous breakdown. And that's. That's the most time we, me and my sister had really ever spent together since we lived in the same house. And she's a lot older than me. So what? Since I Was eight. Yeah. Yeah. So I felt like this has actually, you know, brought me a lot closer to other people. I've also made, like, a lot of friends, especially this time around. So, like, I was very overwhelmed last year. I was like, oh. Like, I think my sister was mostly doing my social media. And then this year, like, I have taken that on and I'm glad I did because I've made, like, a bunch of friends, like, through doing that and hearing from people like who. Of our swimmers and athletes and just all kinds of different connections. So that's been cool, I think, like, embracing the. The social aspect of it and the fact that it's like, I didn't really do social media, like, at all before. Like, I didn't maintain any personal social media at all. And so it's really showed me, like, oh, people actually, like, care about you and they care about what you're doing and, like, your support means something to other people too. So it's been. Yeah, that's. It's been like a. Yeah. It consumes, like, my whole life and it's been. It's brought me a lot of richness into my life. Yeah, I can hear that just in the way that you're talking about it. And I don't know, the word authentic jumped in my head. Like, it. It sounds like it helped. Like, not just you, you're yourself in every instance, you know, with. And. And it's, you know, and it. It's just enriching everything just in that. I don't know. That's just what popped into my head. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But you haven't told us about Lake Ontario. Take us there so it gets delayed. You're having the nervous breakdown. You're about. There were water spouts, there were thunderstorms. There was like. Which I will say this if anyone's listening, and they are considering Lake Ontario. I should have known this because I realized later it says this on the application form with Solo swims. Ontario, do not pick the last week of August because you will get weathered out. So just don't select the last week of August. If anything, if you can pick mid July. Mid July is like the best. The best, clearest time for Lake Ontario. Although the whole end of August thing, like, I do wonder. It didn't always used to be that bad. Like, it is probably related to climate change on some level. The chaos that was occurring in the lake when I was supposed to go. So, yeah, I worked with a company, Swim 51, who did the boats. They've kind of stepped up in the past year, two years. And it's kind of coordinated with another marathon swimmer. He does the coordination. Greg and Greg Matinsky. He was supposed to go the week before me, but his swim got weathered out and my swim got weathered out and then it was supposed to, we were kind of half like sharing that window because my window was also cut short by like there's an air show in Toronto know, so there's going to be like military planes like flying around and we couldn't be in the Port Authority restricted zone, whatever. So we were kind of sharing the first window and then it was supposed to go over back to him at the beginning of September. But he, he was really gracious and he let me have that first week of September because I mean I don't, I don't fully know the reasons. I really appreciate it. He, he has swung Lake Ontario before and maybe because it was my first time, but that is the reason I got to go and I got the notice I think at night finally August 29th, if that's right. And at that point I was so stressed about the weather, like I was never stressed about the distance, I was never stressed about the swim. I never thought, oh, I've had a hundred percent unwavering confidence in all the parts that were in my control. But my understanding was this is nature, this is a great massive force of nature and if it doesn't let you through, it doesn't let you through. And that's it. People have had their swims ended literally hundreds of meters from the shore because nature decides it's not going to happen. And that's not in my human power. It's not, I don't, can't see that bigger picture. So for me, I guess I fear that on some level everything that I can control. Am I going to keep swimming? Yes. Like am I gonna eat all my food? Yes. So yeah, we got to Niagara on the lake. It was gorgeous, beautiful night. I was told we're starting at 2am I did not get any say in that and that is okay. So I was like, okay, I'm swimming 2:00am to 2:00am that's what it is. So we drove to Niagara on the lake. It's about two hour drive from Toronto with all my crew, Pacers, everyone. And basically the way it works, like the crew and everyone got on the boat at the marina, which is a bit of a drive from the start and they drove over on the boat. But because they don't want me to get seasick, they drove me in the car to start and we're just looking out over the lake, and it was gorgeous. Like, you. You could actually see Toronto. It was so clear. And then the stars were, like, really, really bright. And people ask me, like, did you see any fish or wildlife or whatever? And I didn't see anything throughout the swim, but I saw something before the swim. So we saw a raccoon, like, walking on the shore and kind of, like, bumbling, like. And then the raccoon got in the water and started swimming. And we've seen a raccoon swim before. Raccoons are sort of like, the unofficial mascot of Toronto. And so I was like, that means I'm gonna make it to Toronto. Wow. So, yeah, it was so cute. It was so cute. I love it. And so, yeah, then I had a panic attack meltdown because I thought I lost all my water bottles. Oh, no. Yeah, they, like, there was chaos. Like, when we were at the marina before we drove over, there was chaos. Bags and all the supplies and, like, you know, there's, like, so much stuff. But we didn't have, like, a great system. We didn't have, like. Because my sister was kind of the point person for that, and she had had to go back home on the plane a couple days before, so. Oh, no. So basically, at the end of the day that was supposed to be on the Zodiac was actually, thank God, on the main boat. And they did find it. But when I started my swim, I didn't know that. So I thought, okay, all my water bottles that we raked up and what was it? My mug for, like, hot feeds and stuff was like, we don't know where it is. But I had a friend with me, and she was just like, they're gonna take care of you. You know, Trust your crew. They're gonna take care of you. Because I had, like, literally, because of the change up, they switched my. My swim master, like, the observer, and I wound up having, unexpectedly, the president of the board of Solos, Ontario, Marilyn Korzakwa, like, there, and she's like. She's like a legend. She's did, like, Ontario, both directions. She did Lake Superior. She did like. She's. She knows. She's a very, like, together person, and she's like, well, we got a bottle. We'll get up. Okay, let's go. Nice. And so we just started swimming. It turns out. Whoops. It turns out in the first half hour, before I even had my first feed, like, they found the bag. They got it on the Zodiac. Yeah, it was all good. I swam through the night. And, yeah, swimming through the night was wonderful. The I. I had done a little night swimming in practice. It never scared me. I really enjoyed it every day. Sunrise was beautiful. Most beautiful sunrise, like the world, like in the middle of Lake Ontario is indescribably beautiful. And I mean, I. It was the best two days of my life. Like, it really was like my birthday. Like, everyone's there to support me. Like, I get to just swim and support it and I. I don't have to worry about anything. So I really was just like, having the time of my life. And I was very smiley. Generally. I had a couple issues. I didn't have any stomach problems, like, not nausea, but I was disgusted by my food. Like, I couldn't like some of the food we'd planned or like that I planned, like, with my dietitian at the time. Like, it was gross. So luckily I had had paranoia that that might happen. So. So I like, I think like 40 or 60 Morton, 160 gels. And I switched to Morton and at one point, like, I did gag up a gel, I just took another one. Like, I did not let myself miss a feeding. I think that is like the number one, like, most important thing because I'm not gonna bonk because I don't have carbs. Like, that's something I could control. So, yeah, that was important to me. That was my biggest issue. And then the other moment of quite extreme adversity, I would say, would be Lake Ontario. When you come into Toronto, there's like the Humber river and that has this current that blows you out. So you kind of like, when you leave Niagara, there's the Niagara River. And it actually was making me go like, so fast. So people were watching my tracker and they were like, you're going to finish under 20 hours or something like that. Like, which would be completely unprecedented based on, like, my own actual pace. And I had known, I always knew that when I came to Toronto, the Humber river would blow me back. And that I think my first swim master told me that the last 8 km takes 5 hours or something like that. So I calculated everything, planning five or even six hours for the last eight kilometers. Like, in my mental assessment, like, at one point I was like, maybe three quarters of the way distance wise, but I knew I was basically way or less time wise. So, like, my crew is trying to tell me, like, oh, you're in the last quarter or whatever. And I was like, no. Like, until I encounter the current from that river, I know that I'm not counting any chickens. Like this hasn't happened until I actually touch the wall. It's not over. Um, and I think so. I'd been swimming since 2am and at like 10pm so like 20 hours in my coach, everyone's like looking a little concerned. I wasn't feeling bad, I was feeling actually good. I was like chugging along like whatever. But everyone's looking a little concerned and my coach is like, so you're not moving? Like I think at one hour I moved like 400 meters or something like that. Like, because the current was so, so strong. Like the current gets so strong like around the Toronto Islands when you come in because of the river. So they were like, okay, like what's your effort level right now? And I think I said like 4 out of 10 and they were like, okay, like put it at like a seven or an eight and then we'll check in after an hour. And that's when I started like pushing. So at 20 hours I started pushing. Wow. And they let me know like after an hour of that they're like, you doubled your speed. Like you've. It was funny. My coach was like, your legs should be pretty fresh because I don't kick like at all. I just started kicking for like the first time in my life. And yeah, I, that was my favorite part. Like that was really my favorite part because I had been getting like. I also got lucky. The water was like 20 degrees throughout and I had prepped for a lot colder and maybe cold pouches or colder at the end. Um, but I was even like very uncharacteristically like starting to get cold cuz the air temp was like 12, like I think like fifth in the 50s I think at night. So I was starting to get cold, which is not normal for me. But when I started pushing I felt myself almost like switch over to like burning carbs and I started to feel hungry and I was. And that was great, that was a great feeling. So like I really like, I think I did like three, three and a half hours of like hard, hard. It must have been even closer to four hours of hard effort at the end because to get through the, the current and they told me they were like, oh, well, we'll let you know when you're through the current and you can stop. Well, they never let me know. Like the next time someone let me know something they said you're. I think they were like, you're 500 meters away or something like that. And I was like, from the end of the current and they were like, no from the end. And I was like, oh, okay. Like I think I had stopped to ask for an Advil. And then they told me that I was like, I don't need an Advil. I kept on going, but weirdly, like I was in a lot less pain than I was after my 10 hour swim. Like really, like. And actually the side that bothered me on the, on the training, so this was my left side. And the only thing I felt was maybe like a 2 out of 10 discomfort on my right side for this one. So when I was got out, like I touched the wall, I climbed that. There's like a ladder at Maryland Bell park. And I climbed up the letter. And my coach was saying to the people watching, there was a few people gathered, like some friends. And I was really happy that people had showed up to the end. Like 2:00am, 2:30. And my coach was like, don't touch his shoulders. And I have the video of me and I just laughed because I was like, I'm not in any pain. Like I, I got out and I first thing lifted up my arms to show everyone. Like I can lift up my arms. And then my swim master comes up to me. She's like, let me feel how cold you are. And she touched me and I was hot. Oh, wow. And then she just laughed and, and you know, left me because they were all like, oh, we'll need to medically examine you at the end and stuff. But nobody needed to medically examine me at the end. I was, I honestly felt like amazing. And I have a video of my dad's like, how do you feel? And I was like, feel amazing. Like this is the best day ever. And yeah, I'm off. Like I, I knew before I had spent Lake Ontario I wanted to do like all five great Lakes. So after that I was like, yeah, I, I was born to do this. Like, I need to do more of this. And yeah, I'm lucky enough that this will never happen to me again. But we just drove 20 minutes home to go to bed. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that's. It's hard to get the one. The swims close to home. But that's, that's amazing. Um, so you're. Yeah. So you're gonna do all five lakes and you've got the next one coming up. Tell us. Yes, I'm gonna this one again. Fine. And that's gonna be from Port Sanilac, Michigan to Port Franks, Ontario. It'll be 55km, so a little bit longer. And first week, um, and again this one, the the challenges are mostly logistical. Um, I'm very, very lucky to have found like a pilot who's willing to do it. Um, and I have some awesome crew coming with me, some people who are with me on the last one to do so. Yeah, I'm, I'm just extremely excited. I'm in the middle of my training. Like I'm in some really big weeks right now. I've got a 10 hour swim next week and I'm just having the best time, the best time. So cool. I love your passion for it. Where does running sit now that you've got this hard charge in the marathon swimming world? Do you still, you still run long distances as well? Yeah, well I actually ran just 5k this morning for some cross training. I, I did run in the off season so I trained for, I did like a 16 kilometer 10 miler day after Christmas and I did a, I got my 10k PR in early December this past year. I'm not a super fast runner. I think I should know this off the top of my head. I think it was like 55 minutes and then I ran a 30 kilometer road race in March is called around the Bay. Locals will know of it. It's a great race for people who do open water swimming and don't have time to train for a marathon because then I finished that in mid April and dove right into my. So I finished that April 12th. April 12th is kind late to training for an August crossing so I was doing both. I really started my swim training in April and I, I balanced it 50. 50. I'm a self coached runner and I also kind of live vicariously through my good friend who's actually she's on my Lake Ontario crossing and she'll be on my next one because she's a registered nurse and you know she's such an awesome crew member but she's a great, very talented runner. So I also live vicariously through her by coaching her Coach for a 5k PB, hopefully knock on wood in June. And yeah, I definitely like still hang out with my friends while they do track workouts and stuff but I'm not allowed to run hard. But yeah, still love running. Will always run, definitely dreaming of a hundred mile race one day and just to do ultra marathons in general. But I don't know, I think swimming, I mean it's a lot more expensive and hard to coordinate. However, like I'd say I'm a pretty slow to average runner and I'm a pretty slow to average swimmer as well. Like when I Do these swims in like eight hours swim. I did it on like a 2:14 per 100 pace or, you know, and in open water I typically swim like 2:30 to 2:45. But, but to, to do it for 24 hours, I know I can do it for 24 hours. So if I can achieve to that level where I've done something like less than a hundred people have done, or when I do like Huron, it'll be like it's less than 10 people, I think. Wow. I think I, I think it's only like I, I'm. I only know a four by name who've done it. Wow. So it could be more than that. But it's one of those things, it's a really rare sport where you can be kind of physically average in some ways and still do be a world class performer at something and still do something that few people have done. So it's very exciting to me. And especially, you know, as a trans person, like, I, I knew I wouldn't would be the first trans person to swim across Lake Ontario. I knew I'd be the first trans person to swim across any of the five Great Lakes. What I didn't realize is that I cannot find another openly trans person who's done a ratified marathon swim. And so I, it sort of calls to me too. Like, it's exciting. Like everything I do, I would be the first. But also I hope that it's part of a larger snowball effect of visibility where like, as I am doing it, there becomes caution for that. Like, I hope to hear from other trans people who are marathon swimmers or who want to do marathon swims and who will in the future. Like, that idea also excites me of like, everything I do is also like raising visibility. Like, everything I do right now is a first. But my goal is that it won't be so easy to get first, that maybe someone trans will like beat me across the English Channel or something like that. Like, that would be really cool. And maybe they're listening. Like, that really excites me. That's, that's amazing. I am, I'm so excited. I'm so grateful to you, love, for sharing your story because, yeah, for me, it's all about inspiring people to, to find their, to test their capacity and to have a meaningful life, really. And I'm thrilled that marathon swimming has spoke to you and brought meaning to your life and that you shared your story with us. Thank you so much. Of course, I have to tell you, like, your podcast was instrumental. Like in My journey, I'm thinking to, like, maybe it would have been May20,23 or 4. I was just on the train, like, on the way to see a friend, like, listening to episodes of your podcast and being like. I think I was actually crying because I was so, like, moved of, like, I'm gonna do this. Like, I'm manifesting that this is gonna happen. So, like, literally. Yeah. Without, like, being able to hear people's stories, like, I don't think. I think it would have been harder for me to conceptualize doing this myself. So it's very exciting to talk to you, and it's very exciting to be on this podcast right now. Like, what? Yeah, you sharing people's stories. Like, it. It affects the world in a really, really good way. Oh, thank you. Thank you for that. I'm glad to have been a teeny, tiny bit of your journey, so keep after it, love. And yeah, thank you again. Thank you. Thanks so much for spending part of your day here listening to stories from the water. 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