#103: The Art and Science of Storytelling in Leadership

Speaker A: Welcome to Stepsero, a, uh, podcast for professionals who want to feel less overwhelmed by the complexities of modern work. One conversation at a time. My guest today is Guillen Power, founder and CEO of TLC Lions. Today, his work reaches over 300 of the world's largest companies. In this episode, we talk about storytelling. What makes it work in a corporate context, and why the lesson at the end of the story is the part that many people miss. Let's get into it. Gien, it's such a pleasure to finally meet you, have the chance to speak with you. Thank you for making the time and being on the Subseto podcast.

Speaker B: Well, good. Thanks for having me. Sun is shining. I'm feeling good and ready.

Speaker A: Gjen, you're the founder and CEO of, uh, TLC Lions. You want to make workplaces more human. You do that through an immersive approach to learning and development. And you also care a great deal about mental health. You were awarded an OB in 2025 because of that. And storytelling is a central, uh, pillar to what you do, what you discuss, you talk about it very fondly. And I'd like to know more about that specifically over the next, say, 15 minutes. So let me start by asking you, how do you link. How do you reconcile storytelling with making a workplace more human? How are the two connected?

Speaker B: I mean, look, storytelling is nothing new. It's been around for tens of thousands of years, right? But one thing is true about it, that when we tell stories, the neurons in our brains, they pick up and they wire together. It's so, so powerful. It's always been that way. And as the saying goes, that neurons that fire together, they wire together. And when they wire together, that's how great cultures are formed. And so when you look at an organization, if we have leaders telling stories that might be about how they needed support, you mentioned mental health, how they've been through a challenge in their life, and how they picked up the phone to the employee assistance program, got support. Wow. When I hear that story, that can inspire me to do so as well. Or if I hear a story about, let's say, a company's values, I say values should be lived and not laminated. It's very easy to laminate them on a wall. So if we have. Pick any words. Respect, integrity. Most companies have those, you know, you can write them. Whereas actually, when you wrap them around with a story, a very powerful story of a leader shares a moment where in his or her, uh, career, they faced a crossroads. They had to do the right thing. They chose to Be, you know, high levels of integrity. And this is what happened. It wraps the listener in, it draws you in and it makes it more immersive, more exciting. And so when you put that in the context of a company, if leaders just lead like this and they don't tell stories, they just give you facts and say, respect, integrity, that's how people feel it. However, if they tell a story and they're passionate about it and it's inspiring and they bring you in, that's how people feel. And when they feel a certain way, they act a certain way. And that's how we drive behavior change.

Speaker A: How was storytelling received when you started with TLC Lions? When you started looking into storytelling? Now you do share a very powerful story, for lack of better words. When you started interacting with, I assume it was high caliber executives, HR leaders. How was the idea of storytelling received then? What was the reaction, uh, about you coming up and saying, oh, I want to focus on storytelling.

Speaker B: Look, it's been seven years since obviously I left PwC and launched TLC Lions and I'm learning every single day. And one of my main jobs as CEO now is evolving. Like I'm focused on ambition 2030 now. Where do we go over the next four to five years? And that means that storytelling, whilst it's not new, we evolve in terms of what the workplace needs. You know, if you go back during COVID what the world and workplace needed was storytelling for mental health storytelling, inclusion stories that inspire and bring teams together and they are so powerful and we call that personal storytelling. You might now we might work with a company who says, look, we a ah, pharmaceutical brand, let's say they say that we need to increase patient outcomes, we need to get the right drug to the right person to change their lives. Well actually we call that story selling. And that's how you use storytelling to yes, drive commercial growth, but in that instance get the right drug to the right patient at the right time. So storytelling is powerful now in commercial sense. There's also a big drive right now around what we call data driven storytelling. You find me a finance professional and actually an accountant. Numbers don't speak for themselves and so again, they should be telling stories. So I use all of that to go back to your question, which is how did it start with stories? How was it first received? It's generally received with a bit of a, ooh, that's interesting, tell me more. Because we all tell stories all of our lives to our families, our friends, but we fail to do so in the workplace. So people get Storytelling, but it's not without this, which is the challenge, is that you have to then join the dots to think, well, how does storytelling drive behavior change? How does storytelling drive revenue growth? How will storytelling help leaders inspire 60,000 people in this company to act in a certain way and live and breathe our values. We have to then just sprinkle in the science, the neuroscience, show the business case of why it works, give great case studies, and then train them, and then they see the results themselves.

Speaker A: You're making me think the audiences that you speak to, typically companies and, um, executives of all sorts, they're not easy to impress. So naturally, I want to ask, is it something you can ever wing? Is there any such thing as I'm a natural born storyteller, I'll, uh, wing it. I don't need much preparation.

Speaker B: Or.

Speaker A: Or is that never, ever the case?

Speaker B: I think so. Two parts there. Yes, you are right. We work with multinational companies, couple of hundred of them, and, you know, very smart people that we'll work with and deal with. Some have some knowledge of storytelling, but the knowledge that they might have, I won't say it's wrong. They might focus on a certain method. And there's a lot of methods that, uh, are very complicated, overly complicated, if you ask me. We like to keep things simple. So can you. Can people wing a good story? I've seen people in audiences when they're like, you know, we get them up, tell a story, and they've not actually done the work. Sometimes I can tell the difference. So can you wing it? I wouldn't say. I'd say what they can do is they might have good energy and they might have good intonation, but actually there is an art and a science and a craft of storytelling. You know, how do you have a compelling beginning that draws a listener in from whenever you're speaking? You have to set the scene. How do they lead up to the main point of their story? How do they release dopamine that gets everybody clinging to every single word. And then, you know, a good storyteller stops there, a great one who knows storytelling says, so what? And this is the moral of the story. This is the lesson of learning, and this is what you can take away. And so we keep it very simple. That's Aristotle a couple of thousand years ago. Beginning, middle, and end. Can you wing it? Uh, a little bit? Not so much. Should, uh, it be practiced? Absolutely.

Speaker A: Is there anything specific, tangible that makes a storyteller credible to the corporate world? You think?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think. Look, the main part of A story, if you ask me. They're all important parts. The beginning, let's say you gotta know your audience. Let me take this back. One is knowing your audience. Am I speaking to a group of, I don't know, 10 execs who are based in New York in financial services, so I'll try and get into their mindset. Or have we got 20,000 people who work at a pharmaceutical brand, predominantly in Asia? So we have to know exactly who the audience is. Number one, when you know that I often talk about this situation. Well, situation, story and outcome. We all face a situation. I like to think, what's the outcome that I want to achieve? And therefore what's the story I'm going to tell? So what's the situation? I've got 20,000 people. I'm the CEO. I need to inspire them because we're having a difficult time. Okay? That's the outcome that I want. I want them to feel motivated, high energy, optimistic about the next quarter. Okay? So the story that I need to tell really has to bring that through. It has to release endorphins. It's going to make them feel good. They might laugh at certain stages. Perhaps I'm going to share a story about when I've been through a difficult time as the leader, but this is how I got through it. And so to answer your question, the richness comes in the lesson. I see it time and time again, Matteo, where people will get on a stage, great leaders, all these titles, and they might set the scene a little bit, bring the listener into their world. They'll share a moment and then they just stop. And the richness is in the lesson and they miss it. So never forget that. So practically bring them in, set the scene, focus on a key message you want to get. And then so what, what have you learned from that that we can all take away and do differently in our lives?

Speaker A: That makes so much sense. And Gian, you touched a little bit on the past of storytelling. You mentioned it's been around forever. You touched a little bit about the present and how it evolved up to these days. Is it okay if I zoom out and ask you about the future of storytelling? And I know that this is probably a question you've answered over and over again, but AI is everywhere. It's in everybody's feed. Everyone is, uh, so called expert these days about AI. You're into storytelling, you're breathing it and leaving it. How is storytelling evolving? Will AI somehow impact it? And I guess the main question for me would be, do you think AI will ever help us tell a story that is genuine, that authentically can move an audience?

Speaker B: Mhm. So great question in two parts to that. One, short term, practical. How can you leverage AI to be a better storyteller? And then secondly, how is storytelling intertwining into big AI transformation? First one, it's so good. You can use AI as your strategic storyteller. You can say, look, I've got a presentation next week. This is what I'm thinking of sharing. But I know facts tell, stories sell. So be my strategic storyteller. Help me wrap this into a narrative. Now if you don't want a big story, you can say, give me some analogies. Here's an example. Last year I was in New York, we had about 30 chief people officers. I wanted to get across the importance of the chief people officer, uh, in culture change in a company. So I leveraged AI deliberately. I said, come up with an analogy or a narrative. It suddenly said, well, why don't you talk about an orchestra? Because in an orchestra you have the person leading the orchestra. And most people think that that person, the conductor, is the most important person. I did. Whereas actually it is the lead violinist. The lead violinist is the one leading the way. And everybody is following what they do. So if the lead violinist is out of sync, everybody's out of sync. So then I liken that you might have the CEO who is the conductor, but you as the chief people officer are the lead violinist. And if your violin isn't being played at the right tune, guess what's going to happen. So are you playing in sync? Are you setting the rhythm, or are you not? So that's just an example of how AI can be used just to get a message across differently, number one. Number two, look bigger picture. Human skills are so important in the age of AI I just read a report from AON that came out there, ah, Human Capital Trends report. And they're talking about, you know, the human skills are not going to go away. The importance of judgment, discernment. We know all of this and we've recently worked with AstraZeneca, Ralph, Laura and S and P Global around a lot around AI and we focus for leaders on, yes, having a systems mindset, yes, getting their employees from fear to friction to flow in adoption. But what is the story that you're telling around AI what is the narrative? Because you can have anything if you as a leader are, uh, compelling, if you can tell the story about how AI is going to do XYZ in this company. And here's how and why people will get behind you. But if you can't tell a good story, it's not going to happen. There we go.

Speaker A: That's such a good answer, by the way. Like, I can tell that you're so much into storytelling because you're very engaging in the way you explain things. And look, uh, there's something. It wouldn't sit right with me if I didn't ask, and it's something around authenticity and vulnerability. I want to phrase this question very carefully. Sometimes we, I feel we tend to throw these terms around, uh, a bit carelessly, right? We use the world's vulnerability, empathy, and we tend to maybe overuse them to the point that they may lose their meaning, they may feel a little less authentic. Now, I know that not to be your case, so I trust I can ask you, is there a point where authenticity, vulnerability can feel somehow performative, entertaining for the sake of it and lose the. That authenticity behind it?

Speaker B: In short, yes, it can. And, you know, we all see through, uh, bs. We all see through rubbish. You see somebody who's not being authentic. I will always just be myself, obviously, as a team, you know, we always say, be a chameleon. You got to know your audience, but I'm only ever going to be me. And so, in short, yes, you're going to get leaders who stand up and they look like they're completely out of their comfort zone, uh, because they're not being themselves and it just will flop. And. And so I always say to any leader we work with, if they've got a story, if they're about to go on stage, one, they've got it written, two, read it out loud. Does that feel like you are. The wording's right. If your head of comms has written that, that's okay, but just change the word so it feels authentically you. And then if it does feel real, then it's the way that you do it. There's something called the 7, 38, 55 rule, comes back from 1967, some research that was done on communication, and it said that, you know, you can have the best script that's written, but actually the impact of those words with the best vocabulary in the impact when it's delivered is actually only up to 7%. 38% of the impact is from your intonation. It's knowing when to pause. It's knowing when to hold the room, when to be real. If somebody's. If it's a deep moment, just pause. And then the 55% is a body language. And so if a leader then stands up there, and we've all seen it, they're reading a script by the head of comms. And today it's great to see you and da, da, da. Of course, it doesn't feel authentic. The intonation is off. The body language is probably terrible because their eyes are scanning. And so we say to leaders, have a compelling script. Of course the words are really powerful. But then it is about your intonation, your ability to hold the room, and then finally your body language. Fine line between being performative and being real. I feel you can do both.

Speaker A: Is there any such thing as an enemy to storytelling, like a big shadow that people don't really know of that you feel like you should warn them against?

Speaker B: Uh, it's a great question, I'd say I call it the explainer. And what I mean by that is somebody who explains everything. Or I would say we jump the gun. So they're like, they tell you the end before they've kind of like told you the story. By the way, this happened. And this, this, this, this, they just kill a story. A story needs a good set the scene build up, tell me the point, and then tell me the lesson. And so let me give you an example so it's a bit more tangible. I'm going to make something up here. I don't know, what have I done wrong lately? So many things. Trying, uh, to think of something. Let's just say my. Here's one. This is years ago, I had another business, almost caused a fire here in London. Now I. There's an example I could say to you, um, this is a really bad example, but, oh, you know, once in London, I was doing something, I set up a business. Then there was a whole fire and it was all just crazy. And, you know, it was wild. And you're like, okay, cool, like what? What's far better. If I was to say, look, Matteo, a few years ago, I actually set up another business. I just loved entrepreneurship and it was a meditation business. And I thought to set the stage, I was going to put candles around to set the vibe one day. We had so many customers in there, it was going to be fantastic. Little did we know, it got so hot that it actually caught fire to a bit of paper. Thank goodness we had three people in there who quickly saw it, raced, uh, over to it, put it out, and I've learned I will never do that again. To have at least three or four people in. Never use a lit candle. Use fake candles in that environment. And it's taught me the importance of health and safety. So the difference there is the first one, I'm just explaining. The second one, I set the scene. I prime your mind. I told you a moment, and I told you a lesson. And you can do it in 60 seconds. It doesn't take ages.

Speaker A: It actually felt. I'm not just saying this, but it actually felt you were somehow holding my hand, guiding me towards. Call it the climax. Call it like, uh, an ending. A surprise ending. Gyn, I don't know how to thank you for your time. I found it super valuable. I hope we can do this soon again in the future, but until then, thank you so much.

Speaker B: Awesome. Thanks for me.