SEO Isn't Dead, It's Decentralized

Speaker A: Buyers are not finding you through Google anymore. They're asking ChatGPT, reading Reddit threads, checking local Facebook groups, scanning reviews, directories, a LinkedIn profile, and AI generated answers before they ever land on your website. Darlene Moore from Drive Traffic went through Google's AI overview for a client and wrote down every source it cited, including a small directory that neither of them had ever heard of. She got her client listed on it and it became their best source of lead. Darlene joins me today to share what she's seeing on the ground right now in SEO and search visibility, including what's actually working, what agency owners may be overlooking, and why. Showing up in search now requires being more specific, more credible, and sharing more human experience. Welcome to the Small but Mighty Agency podcast, where growing a boutique agency can feel like you're always the underdog, competing against bigger shops with bigger budget. But small agencies aren't the underdogs. You're the upgrade. Here on this podcast, I'll help you see your size as the advantage it actually is and build a business that's profitable, sustainable, and doesn't depend on you to keep running. I'm, um, your host, Audrey Joy Kwon. I've worked behind the scenes in multiple seven figure agencies, coached and consulted with more than 180 agency owners, and supported an agency owner through a successful sale and exit. I also the founder of Agency Together, a community where boutique agency owners build the collaborations and strategic partnerships that help them grow. Here on the podcast, you'll get real world insights and practical ideas to help you work less, earn more, and grow without burning out. For a long time. When agencies talked about SEO, we all kind of meant the same thing. Optimize the website, improve rankings, get more traffic from Google. But the way people actually make decisions doesn't always follow that clean path anymore. The first touch point might be reviews on, uh, maps. It might be a post in a local Facebook group. It might be a Reddit thread where someone is asking for real experiences. It might even be an AI generated answer that points them in a direction before they ever visit a website. So if visibility isn't confined to one place, what's really happening? Today I'm joined by Darlene Moore from Drive Traffic. She's noticing patterns where decisions are actually being shaped and, and a lot of it, uh, is happening in places agencies haven't traditionally thought of as part of SEO. I'm looking forward to hearing what she's seeing on the ground, what's shifting, and what to pay attention to. Darlene, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker B: Thank You, Audrey, that's quite the introduction to live up to.

Speaker A: Tell us a bit more about this idea of SEO isn't dead, it's decentralized. What are you seeing in behavior that made you frame it that way?

Speaker B: Gosh, we no longer need to focus on just behavior being visible in Google. We need to be visible in an AI tool such as ChatGPT or Cloud or even the AI overviews that are showing up in Google. There's so many different places that need to be on our radar now. So let me tell a story that might be a good way to describe it because everything that we search for has a different set of rules on Google these days. I had a client who offers software so service. I went through the AI overviews in Google to see who they were referencing and I wrote everything down, including these small obscure sites and like directories kind of thing. Long story short, client got listed on this small platform neither one of us had ever heard of and it has become her best source of leads. Google is surfacing new sites. If we dig deeper and I think we just have to go through and analyze the search engine results page page based on the query we put in and it's going to differ so greatly for every business. It is not easy. It's like being a sleuth.

Speaker A: Do you think people are paying attention to the wrong signals right now when it comes to getting referenced by LLMs?

Speaker B: I don't know if people know enough about how to get listed there, but yes, everybody wants to jump on the fast and easy bandwagon, but they're missing really simple things like the number of websites that still don't have a well defined about us section. How often do you go to a website and not see who the primary people are in the company, what their experience is, what makes them unique, that sort of idea. This is the stuff that LLMs love. And if that information exists on your website as well as off your website, it gives the LLMs something to cite. It gives them multiple sources to understand who you as an agency are and then can share that information with your prospective clients. So if an LLM understands that the person using it is looking for an agency of some sort, the more they know about the person doing the searching, the more unique information they can bring to the table. And so if you're a woman that likes to work with women owned businesses, even though you didn't search for that, if your LLM tool of choice knows that about you and it knows that an agency is woman run, then it might surface that or if it knows that you prefer to deal with businesses in a certain time zone or a certain state or a certain province, it might just surface that additional information. But in order for the agency to be cited for that information, it has to be available somewhere.

Speaker A: You mentioned that an LL um is curated to find the best answer for the person using it. Therefore, two or three different people put in the same query asking, say, for example, I want to find a marketing agency that serves fintech, for example. Right. They put that query in and the results will be different because the person who's using it and their history of using it looks different.

Speaker B: Um, absolutely.

Speaker A: With that in mind, are there best practices to help show up in LLM models?

Speaker B: The more. No, I don't want to say the more content you have on your website, the better. But every time you write, or better yet, instead of adding new content, go back and optimize your existing content. Does it talk about who you are writing for? Does it talk about what makes you different? I just helped a client with this. We were working on a page of content about leading board meetings. So in this case, tips to run a board meeting. Can your tips be found on another website? If they can, that is not unique content. So revamping your existing content to really show through your uniqueness or writing new content if you're lacking something on, uh, that front. But I think really infusing your experience, experience who you target, what makes you an expert, what are you an authority in? Weaving that into your existing content will absolutely help you get sighted. And then you need to take that same sort of framework and apply it off of your website. So whether that's your LinkedIn profile or some other profile, we need to then start expanding beyond our own website.

Speaker A: The word slop is a popular word that is all over LinkedIn because there is a lot more activity on LinkedIn and we see people say that, okay, there's so much more slop now, meaning that people are using AI to write more things and the ones with the nose for are able to smell that out a lot quicker. So we know in that sense content is not unique. What truly makes content unique right now,

Speaker B: I think it's not the letters on the page, it's the meaning behind them. So the words are used to convey what makes your agency unique. Believe it or not, over the past two years I have had multiple prospects tell me that they want to work with me because of my age and they are not referring to youth. Whenever has a woman been told that being older is better? But for Some reason this is surfacing the past couple of years, I've never seen anybody searching for it. But if we listen to our clients and our prospects, I am going to play that to my advantage and I'm going to work that through my website. Now, somebody who's looking for somebody young won't be turned on by that, but somebody who's looking for somebody with experience will absolutely tune into that. So that is an example of uniqueness.

Speaker A: Okay. Does that mean sharing more personal experiences?

Speaker B: Yes. You talk about experience. Just like cost, there are signals that you can relay that indicate you are a premium product or service versus a basic cost.

Speaker A: What I'm hearing is that more now than ever, our unique experiences, which is personal experiences, are what LLMs, um, are looking for because it's a signal that, ah, the content is human because it's lived. From that perspective, are you encouraging your clients to share more personal experiences?

Speaker B: So I've started using commentary like how many years ago I started the business or what SEO looked like way in the beginning. So it's not personal. You don't have to go into a lot of detail by any means about your personal life. There's a couple of things that I know about you, Audrey, that slip out from time to time. Your interests, where you've loved traveling, that sort of idea.

Speaker A: Love that. I think that's a good reminder for anyone who's producing content and wants to be found in SEO that the LLMs are identifying real lived experience versus AI wrote it experience. And it's getting harder not to bring some of that personalization in, so to speak. But I, uh, like what you said. We still have control over how much personalization we bring into the conversation. I want to switch gears and talk about other channels that SEO and LLM are looking through. Let's talk about the channels that are oftentimes not as visible when we think about producing content channels like Reddit. What's your take on Reddit and how LLMs, um, rank conversations on Reddit?

Speaker B: They're huge. And that could change tomorrow. I really think the LLMs are scraping google and Google is scraping Reddit. I look at it as the source multiple conversations and combine them into something shorter. So yes, right now Reddit is definitely pretty much king, but. But the best is to understand how people search for you or how you would like them to search for you. Read all the citations that AI brings up, use your favorite LLM tools, see who they reference and start digging. It's like a spider web. Start digging into these, these, like, thin lines and and see what comes up. As I mentioned, I found an obscure directory like it compares one vendor to another and my client is getting affordable leads on this site we have never heard of.

Speaker A: You're not going to know what the LLMs are surfacing unless you plug in the question that you think your people are asking. And from there you can see what sources they're pulling from.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: For example, you might see Reddit threads that you could explore more and determine what your Reddit strategy could be from that understanding. Or it might be pulling even from Facebook groups, which is actually a good indication for you to join the Facebook group.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Any other things you think are insightful for people thinking about where do I need to show up in order for LLMs to tell people about me? We talked about Facebook groups, you talked about Reddit. Anywhere else that you've seen show up that people might want to do some research on?

Speaker B: Uh, I see threads, conversations come up from time to time, links to Instagram. Again, it's going to vary. Like in the AI overview, just look at the little icons that are presented and the conversations they're digging from. That's where the gold is. But really, then we have to act on it. And so is it the agency that's going to act on it, or is it the client? And how are we going to go about it? I have a client who is looking for a content manager for Reddit. They've decided that that's what the role would be there. Who is the client going to post on Facebook groups, or is the agency going to do it on their behalf? I think getting a whole list is probably less important than picking a couple of common places. For example, we know people go to Reddit and to local Facebook groups to ask for referrals, recommendations, and focus on getting active in those. And then I think, looking to expand, expand the number of places you can be found.

Speaker A: I love this idea of using the LLM, um, as the source of research. And whatever the LLM pulls up becomes the opportunity for us. Citations that I've noticed come up are also to other blogs. Sometimes they'll find blogs and they'll quote the blogs. Now, of course, there's an option to try to get your content onto those blogs because the LLM has signaled that blog is authority material. However, what do you think makes an LLM identify that piece as authority?

Speaker B: These blog posts are typically answering questions that people are looking for. And the LLM can just pluck that answer right off the page and plop it into their interface. So you may not be able to get listed on that blog. That blog could be light years out of date. But they simply had a format where their content answered a question, and you can do that on your own site. So your content could be the answer to that question, especially if you answer multiple questions on related topics. At one point they were calling this the fan out query technique. And the LLMs can actually help you identify the questions you should be answering. So. So whether you add, uh, this as an FAQ or just weave it into your content, you create more opportunities for these tools to cite you.

Speaker A: One of the core principles in SEO has always been to answer questions that's tried and true and it hasn't changed. And to know that that's still a foundation in our world of LLM is important. However, I think where it gets muddy and confusing is it's so easy to produce that content. Now, technically, like you said, LLMs can produce the question that people are looking for. Then the LLM can write the an to it as well. But that type of content is what we call slop because it's not original. It's not something that that has original thoughts. Is there still value in doing that type of work?

Speaker B: I think that ideally you look at why you're creating this content and you want it to convert into prospects, whether that's somebody downloading something or somebody reaching out to you. So there's a couple of examples that come to mind, and they do provide some thought. There was a question that a lot of meta spas are looking for, and that is, can you advertise Botox on Google Ads? It would appear when you search for that, it looks like Google is answering the question for you. Google is citing themselves, but it's Google community and it says no. I challenge that because as a meta spot, you can advertise on Google Ads. So my page starts with, can you advertise Botox on Google Ads? And my answer is yes, yes, you can. And so the ChatGPT and Google both started citing my capital letters yes, yes, you can alongside Google's answer of no. Another example that comes to mind is what is there to do in Vancouver? That's a really generic question. If you're a tourism website, perhaps you focus on families and children. So your answer to that question should cater to your specific demographic that you work with. So whether you work with people with limited mobility or families with young children, that would make your answer unique. From your general piece of top 10 things to do in this city, it's important to know your target audience and then to speak to them and give answers that would appeal to them in your content. And then use your Google Search console to see what people search for before Google surfaces your page and that will give you further insight into what nobody asks. And you can remove that question or you can go into more detail around the kinds of questions that people are searching for.

Speaker A: Thank you so much Darlene for the insights on SEO and LLMs and how to show up in also some of the channels that we don't often think about like Reddit before we close. Is there any other tip or trick or last words that you have for anyone who is thinking about how to show up on LLM Search right now?

Speaker B: I think we've covered the bulk of it writing for your target audience, weaving that into all content, writing additional case studies, and then branching out from your website to your LinkedIn profile. Wherever you're having these conversations, share your unique list. Let it glow.

Speaker A: Wherever you are, Darlene, where can people find you?

Speaker B: I can be found at My website is drivetraffic Ca. I'll have all kinds of shortcuts there for quick readings, so drivetraffic CA agency. I'm on LinkedIn under my own name, Darlene Moore. Those are the two most popular places that I hang out.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for hanging out with us today.

Speaker B: Thank you Audrey. See you soon.

Speaker A: Hey, thanks for hanging out out with me at the Small but Mighty Agency podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to me if you hit the Follow or Subscribe button in your podcast app and share it with a friend. I'll see you on the next one.