The Power of Gamification w/ Rob Ferre

Speaker A: Hi, folks. Welcome back to the Psilosophy podcast. And I'm excited today to invite our guest. His name is Rob Farah, and he is someone that I actually got a chance to meet in our exactly what to say Certified Guides community. Ever since I got an impression of Rob, I was like, what an interesting fella. Not only interesting.

Speaker B: Let's start over. It's actually foray.

Speaker A: Sorry about that, man. Okay, yeah, let me do that again. Thank you for.

Speaker B: Because I didn't want to correct you on it because that would be awkward.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So I was like, let's just do it over again. That's fine.

Speaker A: Hi, folks, welcome to the Philosophy. Hey, folks, welcome to the Philosophy podcast. I'm excited to, uh, have our guest today, Rob Ferre, who's someone I actually got a chance to meet through one of our Mastermind communities, as in exactly what to say fellow certified guide. And he's someone that immediately caught my attention because he not only is in the world of entertainment, but he really does some unique things in the world of entertainment, including gamification, emceeing. He has the skills of a dj, has worked for corporations like Disney, Nickelodeon, Universal. And so I just have so much of a, uh, curiosity around learning about his journey, his experience, and his point of view in the world of entertainment and, uh, some of the things that he does. So, Rob, welcome. Thanks for being here. Anything that I missed in the intro that would be helpful for the good of our audience?

Speaker B: Yes, well, thank you for the intro. Uh, what might be good is people can find out that I am from the thriving metropolis of Salt Lake City, Utah, home of the 2002 Winter Olympics and soon to be Winter Olympics in 2032, I believe. Um, I, uh, love living here and being able to travel around the world and visit new communities. Speak emcee. I run a DJ business out here, and, uh, my path has been all over the place. And one of my favorite things about what I get to do is meet people like yourself and expand my community and also get to spread my message for people here on this podcast.

Speaker A: Yeah, and this is me speaking honestly, man, I felt such a genuine connection to you before even meeting you. Um, and I think what makes you so magnetic is how uniquely and authentically you you are. And I mean that in the sense that, like, you have this awesome, cool way of, like, dressing. You have style, you know, you're always smiling. You bring, like, you know, your production value of the work that you do. It's just so impressive. And I was just like, this is a Cool dude. I want to meet him, get to know more about his world. So just flowers to you for doing such a great job at demonstrating, uh, you know, the, the work and the value of what you do. So I want to dive into that work first of all. So just for folks to learn, this is a podcast that's going to really mostly talk about sales, psychology, influence conversations, and um, you, you decided to join the exactly what to say mastermind community. However, what you do is a plethora of other things. Like you provide emceeing services for corporate events. You've been, you've delved in, into having a DJ business where you, it's mostly around the entertainment. And I guess my first question is like, what attracted you to coming to become exactly what they say, certified guide. Maybe we can start there.

Speaker B: Yeah, and I actually want to touch on something that you just mentioned. Um, and I appreciate, you know, the warm welcome and some of the things that you said about me that were quite kind. And uh, here's the thing that I have discovered along my journey as a speaker, as an entertainer in this last year. I actually really value working with coaches, working with people who are a, uh, notch above you or maybe have different life experiences and different points of view. And I think if we're self aware or brought to the awareness of who we are and what we can do, those people can enhance it for us. And so recently this year I actually went on a brand journey. And in that brand journey I actually worked with my coach and we figured out the values that I have and some of those values you mentioned. And when we figured out those values, it's, he mentioned to me this is how you show up in the world. And I was like, oh. He's like, this is what you've been doing for years. And one of my main concerns with my speaking, my entertainment, my DJ business is like, what is my why? I don't understand my why. And a lot of people focus on the why, why, why. So we reframed it and we called it brand values. And so we identified five of them. Joyful, um, energy, empathetic curiosity, connected community, spontaneous brilliance and empowered abundance. And those things, those values have been consistent in my life, but I didn't really realize that until this last year because of all the different things that I've been involved with. And that leads me to the exactly what to say guide community. And within the exactly what to say guide community we have what is called the triangle, you know, the triangle that Phil teaches us. And one of those main Tenants of his methodology is curiosity, right? And within my value system is empathetic curiosity. Because I am an inherently curious person. And, um, oftentimes I have to disarm people because I have been told behind the scenes that sometimes I ask too many questions and it might be disarming to some people, or not disarming, sorry, maybe alarming. So I had to be disarming beforehand. And sometimes I say to people, I apologize, um, um, I, um, am abundantly curious about everything, and if I ask too many questions, please let me know. But with that being said, I came to it through the speaker community, which is the National Speakers association, which also emphasizes one of my tenants, which is, um, Empowered, Abundance and the connected communities. And Phil Jones is one of those people who is part of the NSA community. And I was very curious about what he was starting to create. And he uses the word a movement, and I speak about movements. So all these things come into place, and it just seemed congruent with who I am. I speak on communication. I want to be a better communicator, and I just want to be around people who are doing it at a high level, teaching others and using it in their own way. So I joined the exactly what to say community about two years ago, Two to three years ago. And then, uh, my first impression of you was your generous abundance mentality. Because I was having a brain block with certain words and phrases where I would present a phrase or word. And for those of you, if this is your first time, congratulations, this is your third or fourth time. You know what these words maybe are about, exactly what to say gives you a framework of words where you can spark a conversation, continue a conversation. And I would put these words into play when I would do a keynote. And I would often say, I'm getting pushback on certain phrases. People think they're manipulative. And what did you do for me? Well, you said, well, let's go ahead and go through some of those phrases where you get some pushback. But also realize this, you don't have to put it into context for your audience. You give them the words, they will put it into their own context. Because what I was trying to do is I was teaching people, maybe in the banking industry or in the HR world, and I was saying, okay, here's the phrase. How would you use it? And then I would give an example, hoping that it would resonate with their line of work. Okay, so let's say you have a customer at your bank that comes in. How do you promote it? And then I would give them different ways to say it within their own context. And I realize now, because of your help, that I just need to give them the words and the phrases, they put it into their own context. So it blew my mind because I was trying to be, like, relatable to them. And like, I did my research and these are the things you talk about. And a lot of them were like, well, I would never say it that way. Uh, the most important thing is teaching them the methodology, giving them the tools, and letting them put it into play for themselves.

Speaker A: Thanks, man. I appreciate that. And I think that was an aha. Moment for me too, is like, at the beginning, I knew how to. And you knew too, in your own personal journey, you realized, okay, this is how I, uh, it would make sense for me. This is how it would sound authentic to me. This is where we're working my moments. But what we realize is that if we just take a step back and just help them identify the moments first, then plugging in the words make more sense. Right. And like, it's their moment, so then they can uniquely feel what is going to make sense with their personality. And then we teach them the nuances of tonality and, you know, curious tone and is this the right moment? You know, does it make sense? Et cetera, intentionality, etcetera. So thanks, man. Thanks for calling that out. Yeah, and that's. I think that's what I love about this idea of community, is that we have an opportunity for us to learn from each other's perspectives, experiences. And, you know, sometimes I join these. These calls. There might be, you know, maybe 50 or 60% of the content might be. Okay, I've gone through that. Okay. But then one person will say one thing, and that little unlock can take me to such great lengths in, In. In curiosity, in ideation, in innovating, just how to approach a different part of my business model. So I think that's awesome. And, and I'm super grateful that you're part of the community because it's, it's opened up my eyes to seeing how bringing gamification and entertainment can just light up, uh, a room and create unforgettable experiences. And now someone who is a community leader for our reframe Community, which you got a chance to learn a little bit about with my brother, for the accounting industry, we're really trying to bring these new different perspectives. And you know, what's the first word that a lot of people think when they think Accountant? Boring. The letter B. That's right. Boring. Right. So how do we make it not boring? Right. And, um. And, you know, you'll probably hear this from Phil. You probably heard it from some of our other fellow guides who got a chance to go last year that it was not a boring conference. Like, I played the guitar and I sang. We had Latin music band, you know, in the middle of. We had a sketch. Visual sketch note artist. We really try to bring the playfulness.

Speaker B: Well, you brought the spice.

Speaker A: That's right. That's true.

Speaker B: And for our, uh, reframers out there, we know when it comes to certain industries, there are maybe first impressions or words that come to mind, like boring or car salesman, sleazy. Right. Whatever. Pushy. So things like that. But for me, the reframe is. Once I started understanding what my accountant did, I know it's a two. It's two words. But for me, it's peace of mind. I think that's what accountants bring more than anything, is peace of mind. Uh, where I get the freedom to be able to do my job and focus on the things that are important to me instead of the minutiae of numbers, you know, and you can know

Speaker A: your numbers so you can be confident in the financial decisions you're making.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: As well.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. And so there's so many things about it. Uh, and so maybe the reframe is letting other people know that as well. Accountants can be fun, but they can also provide this thing for you. And here's the great thing, is they should be boring. Right? Because if it's dramatic, then you're kind of worried about it. I say this about politicians or the government. The government should be boring. We shouldn't have to, like, worry about all these things. But sometimes, uh, drama is played out in politics today. And I don't like bringing in politics, but it's just an example of those type of things. But if you can reframe it and say, guess what? You're going to have peace of mind. You're also going to have fun with us. We're going to. We're going to make saving money fun.

Speaker A: Yeah. And yes. And I would say that what we're trying to help accountants also reframe is that, yes, some parts of their work could be boring or repetitive and necessary to be detail oriented. But where AI is automating a lot of these technical skills, we need to help them elevate communication skills. How they bring strategic advisory with looking at insights and numbers, and then how to ask the right questions so that you can help the business owner think bigger about what strategic Tax strategies they could make, or you know, growth strategies they can make for their business or business development strategies or marketing strategies. So we're also helping them unlock the entrepreneurial mindset and the creative problem solver mindset. Because in accounting one of the biggest challenges is that you can't be creative. Or accountants might say to themselves, I don't consider myself someone who's creative. That's why I love being in front of my computer doing numbers. However, we're all born as creative people, right? We just, we tend to be more, you know, we like to do certain things a certain way and it's just more about use creativity more as problem solving, not necessarily how to be creative with your taxes. Right. Because that could be the right misunderstanding there.

Speaker B: Okay, love that.

Speaker A: So, um, so in your world you do, you get to do emcee, you've done keynotes, you dj, you maybe combo, some of that stuff. And I guess one of the things I'm curious about for folks who want to understand, those who are listening that are in a position of entertaining, educating, coaching, supporting others, the importance of how gamification can create unforgettable memories, uh, improve whether it's learning, retention or what other benefits there are to it from your experience, you know, what are some insights you can share with us?

Speaker B: So I'm not going to try and place it into your world, folks, because, uh, sometimes it may fall flat. But I'll tell you how it's benefited me. But I also encourage you right now to think about what games do for you and how you engage in games. For me, I play games every day and for me it's about leveling up and learning. And then the reward, of course, that dangling carrot. And so things like, uh, every day I do my wordle, my duolingo where I'm improving my Spanish again. I learned Spanish 20 years ago, but it's fallen off. I am, uh, doing things like math games, so I'm just improving things. But I love the dangling carrot of the streaks. The um, that reward system where it pays off eventually. Where I can now be at a restaurant and be like, okay, what's a percentage of this? And this, okay, that's how much money that goes towards the tip and things like that. Without pulling out my phone. I am using my phone to enhance my brain games. But the reason I bring up all these different games in different ways to engage, that is one form of gamification, right? Gamers, uh, playing online or whatever it may be. But gamification can be used to incentivize to reward and to engage somebody in a different way that they normally don't get engaged. So I use it oftentimes in my speeches by keeping the audience involved. Because if you, have you ever been to a boring speech? Have you ever been to a boring presentation? So let's take what you do and turn it into a game. Maybe you are doing presentations under the model of your business. Either it be sales, accounting, whatever it may be and you have a 45 minute presentation. It could be a 20 minute presentation. But if you bring in a game, people perk up, they'll want to win. Or you can use it in a way of retaining the knowledge that you just shared with them. So I have four R's of gamification. One of them is relationships. And so when I speak I want people to foster bigger relationships. I want them not just to know what I am teaching them, but I want them to know each other. So when I'm doing an event I will do games that will foster relationships. One, I mean two, retention. Retention based. So that way they can retain the knowledge they just learned an instant quiz. Right. So uh, for those of you who've been listening so far, go ahead and say three places Rob has worked in Florida. Nickelodeon. Ding. Right. Universal. Ding. Right. And what's the last one? Disney. Ding ding ding ding ding ding. So that's retention. Now that's a second touch or a third touch for them to retain the knowledge they just got. So for those of you listening at the end of this podcast I'll be sending, you know, and that actually tees up something else which is reward. And I think we need to also recognize what people like to be rewarded with. So if you are managing an organization, not everybody likes the same type of rewards. There's types of rewards where you will be recognized in front of your peers. There'll be types of rewards where you will be given monetary rewards. But in my research, in my events where I'm polling the audience, the one piece of reward or the type of reward that the majority of them want is a paid day off. And you need to ask better questions. When it comes to exactly what to say, we have to ask better questions instead of just assuming. Because once we ask the better questions will be more relatable and empathetic to their needs and then we'll have the confidence to give them what they want. And if you can ask those questions of like, so what's most important to you in your life? Caring for my family. So do you want more time or do you need More money to take them to the places. So it's like a combination of those or I just want to be validated for my work validation. Okay, how do we do that? We're going to bring you in front of everybody and you're going to get the employee of the month, whatever it may be. Does that make sense? And then the fourth R I touched on a little bit is recognition. Now when I say recognition within a game, I like to give people the opportunity to feel like they're a part of the show. Not everybody wants to be on that stage, but if I can turn the mirror, let them feel like they're the star of the show, that's how I use recognition. So I will do a game about the people in the audience and people are just immediately engaged. So an easy way to do a game with the people within your organization, maybe you're a manager, over 10 people, maybe 100 people, doing quizzes about the people. So I do games like where I send out a survey, answer these different questions, a celebrity encounter, a bucket list place, something, a little known fact, a stupid human trick. You know, somebody within our organization, uh, met Richard Branson on his private island in Necker Island. Was it Carlos? Was it Phil? Was it Rob? And then people answer the question, it was Rob. Oh, wow. Rob. Tell us about that story that Rob was me. Uh, and that's a true story because of a game show. It gave me the opportunity to go to Richard Branson's island and do a game show for an incentive trip. And that incentive trip was a, uh, thank you for this company that just closed a multimillion dollar deal in corporate real estate or commercial real estate. But those are just examples of what gamification can do for an event for your organization. And you can even do this at your next family event. And so that's what I help teach people. Teach people learn through some of my teaching.

Speaker A: It's a new, new word unlock there. Teach. Um, um, you know, one of the things that was going through my brain as you were saying that is, is like the emotional feelings that were coming up as you were talking about the four Rs. I also imagined when we did games in our past conferences and in places where I've leveraged gamification. As a former teacher, facilitator of, uh, I love games as well as, you know, that's where we connect really well. It just also loosens up the room. It makes people feel safe. It also gives them permission to play. It gives them permission to be more of themselves, right? And you think about when you're in this corporate environment or you're in this professional environment, there's this perception where you need to show up as this avatar of like, you know, you're serious, you're here to learn, you're here to follow professional standards, et cetera. But then being able to jump into a game or because you're also very fine tuned with music, with dancing games maybe, or even as a DJ as well, like how a different version of people show up. And I think that drives mostly the number one piece, right. Is the ability to connect with others and have that human connection and share an experience with someone that's fun and memorable.

Speaker B: And going back to reward, I think it's really important that we recognize the different types of reward systems. And I appreciate corporate swag sometimes, but I don't need another T shirt. I don't need another water bottle. And some of my favorite gifts have been things where somebody knew me or they listened or they asked the right questions, or they knew. I had an obsession with cats. Right. So this right here is a cat calendar of pissed off cats. Uh, you probably can't see it right now. There it is. But that was a gift from somebody who, uh, was listening. Oh, that was you, of course. Right. And so when we met up in, um, New York, we had this activity where we did a scavenger hunt for gifts. We were all given different dollar amounts. And instead of spending that money on something for ourselves or on an activity like, we're gonna go all watch the Rockettes perform instead, let's use that money to give gifts for each other. And how fulfilling is that? And those gifts still carry on. And they go beyond some of those moments. I think moments are really important. But the moment we had was, you know, you saying, hey, uh, I was listening, and I know you got three cats at home. And I was like, yes, I love it. So. But that just says a whole lot about who you are, paying attention and asking the right questions. And I think we need to be doing more of that.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's a, it's a connection accelerator. Right. It's just finding a way to connect.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, I love activities like that because, um, the world needs more of that. Right. And I think what you're doing is just beautiful work, man. And we're going to continue to work together one way, shape or form. And you know it. I've been, yeah, I've been on your tail, and I know you've been on mine. For us to find a way to Collaborate. But it's really cool. One thing that I've been also kind of curious about is, like, as Covid hit, I'm sure, like, everyone, right, like pivoting, um, you've had to shift probably to more online business and do making this figure, like, work out online. Like a lot of us, um, including myself, I do a lot of my stuff online, right. Like these podcasts. We do zooms with most of my business done online. And if I'm doing some sort of web webinar, or if I'm not, if I'm being hired. But as someone who wants to find an edge for you, what. What have you learned about making equally impactful or as impactful as possible online? Any insights there?

Speaker B: Yeah, for some people, it might be relevant now. Maybe they're so glad that they're back to live events, in person, meetings, in person, trainings. But we, uh, have to adapt to the moment. I know that dirty word about pivot was constantly being used, but pivoting is also meaning adapting. And some people have to completely pivot or whatever. But I think it's taking what you're already doing and putting it into maybe an online form or structure. A lot of people create courses. A lot of people do webinars. What I decided to do was build this studio. But I didn't just do it on my own volition. I had to do it out of necessity. But also being inspired by the people around me that were pivoting as well, and I was seeing what other people doing. I think the most important thing is hang out where the people you want to be with or be like are. And some of my good friends who are speakers, I saw what they were doing and their demand. I said, well, if they're building a studio, I'm building a studio. I created a demo reel, but also I started serving before I started getting paid for some of these events. And how did I serve? I started volunteering and helping people with their webinars. I also started doing town halls with my fellow speaker community. And I learned how to use zoom. I learned how to use some of these tools. I would see what people are doing. And I said, how can we plus this event for you? You have the content, you have the stake. Let me put that sizzle on your steak. Let me help create more engagement. Because I think that was what a lot of people were missing was we were all staring into the void of these computers and these screens, but we weren't really engaging ourselves in ways that created connection or connecting the dots with some of those things. So that's what I did. And I was able to, uh, do that through my MC work, through my gamification. And what I was able to do was leverage that into the real world. But I think if you're looking to do something now, virtually watch what your peers are doing or start being cognizant. And I, uh, like to use the term metacognition. Metacognition is thinking about your thoughts. And, uh, before we jumped on here, we had a bit of a conversation about where we wanted to go with this. And when it comes and relates to sales, I do not like sales. I'm very cognizant about that. But there are people who've told me, you know what, Rob? You are constantly selling yourself. You're in sales, but you sell yourself in a different way. Instead of, like, words and reaching, uh, out and be like, hey, have you ever thought about hiring an emcee or a DJ or whatever? Right. You show up in the world where you are selling your personality, your vibe, but also you do it through service. And so when I talk about metacognition, if you're in a sales conversation or you've seen somebody sell you on something, you're like, okay, what was it about that conversation that sold me? What is it about that person? What is it about those words? So if you can go back and be cognizant of those things, it will make all the difference. And so that's what I started to do. I was like, okay, if I was sitting in a zoom call, what would I want to be doing? What would keep me engaged? And so those are the related things, because we're trying to create more connection and more engagement through a digital world. And if we want to do that in person, start seeing how the people who you admire doing it at the top of their game.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think, um, you know, one thing you. You say, it's something that many people say. It's like, ah, I don't like selling. And, you know, I feel weird when I sell. And. And I think it's been my life's mission to simple swap the. The concept of selling with. Consider it. Considering it more like a. It's a business necessity to sell. Right. And, um, but humanly, it's been portrayed in, you know, Glengarry, Glenn Ross at Wolf of Wall street, all the media that, like, selling is like, we're forcing or we're that sleazy car salesman that is portrayed to be as, like, someone who's not being fully honest or they have an agenda. And that's, for me, it's been my mission to help people use the thesaurus. Is the word selling as, like, serving, as you're saying, right? Like, if you're doing it in service. And I think the second thing, I'm sure it's been an unlock for you is our first year of anything. I mean, at least, uh, when I went through it is I was so desperate for cash flow that I would do and say and, you know, hustle to try to. But once I was able to surpass survival mode, the rest was just getting detached from the outcome and just being committed. Can I help this person? Like, like, am I qualified to add value in this person's business or life? And then if that's a check mark, and then the other things can they afford me know, like, will the value that I create exceed the investment that they make? And then if they choose not to hire me, having sort of that detachment from the outcome, saying, okay, well, like, I wish you the best, and I think that's the best. I think that's an honorable and an honest way to show up in the world of honest selling, ethical selling, without forcing. Right. And, um, I think you, you built such a great brand that a lot of people have already probably bought into you and your brand. And that's why investing, as you said, in your brand values and your identity. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker B: Well, what I was going to say to you is I want to leverage the. Exactly what to say community. And so what do I do is I serve first, and I want to help people create more compelling, engaging events. And so I'm going to give you those tools. But when. And that, if anything, is making it top of mind for them. Correct. And so I know a guy, I need. I know a person who can help. Right. And so if you're constantly serving instead of selling, you don't go on the ickiness side. You're like, oh, right. Sometimes it eventually comes back. There's going to be a day where somebody's accountant is going to retire, and maybe they don't have a succession plan, or maybe that accountant is moving on. Whatever it may be, you're going to be top of mind. Right. And so I think that's really important. And, uh, when I was in Las Vegas watching Phil Jones speak to Keller Williams, uh, Realtors, he asked this question. It was pretty cool to watch what he did because I would say in a lot of industries, people are thirsty. I think realtors are maybe really thirsty. And he said, when, um, should we Be selling. You know, let's say, uh, no. I think the term was this. When we approach a customer, do we always tell them it's the best time to sell? Yes. Who says yes? Or do we tell him it's the best time to buy is the best time to buy? Yes. He's like, I say no to either one of those. It depends. We have to guide them, but we have to ask the right questions. When he said, it depends, I love that because it's like I constantly be selling. Constantly be selling. And that's when you alienate people. And when he says, it depends, what comes into play? Questions, the right questions. A, uh, conversation. Hey, you know what? Right now, I can't sell my home. We're just not in a financial spot. Great. Let me help you in the future. Or let me be a resource. But also, one of the words that also falls flat for a lot of people is. Or phrases. Uh, you know, if there's anything that you need, don't hesitate to ask. And he brought that up. And there's so many people have those empty platitudes. And you can be a person who can just help somebody no matter what. Hey, I was thinking of you, and I thought of this. I was thinking of you about your business, and I wanted you to introduce you to somebody who could be a client of yours. If you can make an introduction to somebody who has another business as well. Great. You know, it's like, oh, you know, um, I have a friend who just moved into south beach, and he's in need of a great realtor, a great accountant, a great mortgage broker, a great whatever. I know a guy. Well, at least I know a guy who knows a guy, you know, or I know somebody who knows where some great Venezuelan food is. You know, it's just. Exactly. But that's the power of relationships.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And so relationship building is sales.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, I want to go back to a couple things. So kind of funny that you. You mentioned that. The reference about the yes or no. So what's different about real estate professionals and accountants? Accountants. Favorite phrase, actually, they have a T shirt printed out called It Depends. It's like the most accountant advice that's ever given. Right. Think about, can I. Can I use my home as, uh, an office? Write off. It depends.

Speaker B: On.

Speaker A: Right. Can I buy this car and write it off for my business? It depends. It's like the most common answer in a funny way that you were saying that, like. And obviously they're training, so that was quite funny. And we're teaching Them, of course, it's like, okay, where do you go next? After? It depends. What's to your point is asking really great questions and how do you give proactive advice and et cetera, et cetera. The second point that you were talking about with, oh, uh, when you're building relationships to try to sell is this kind of follow up, let's touch base, or if you need anything, let me know where I want to be. A resource, I call it. When you're building a pipeline, you're either nurturing if you do it the wrong way, right way, you're nurturing the relationship. But doing it the wrong way is you're torturing because you're the nurturing or torturing. And the torturing approach is, hey, how are you doing? And you have no real purpose. You're adding no value. You're not really there to serve, you're there with an agenda. Uh, that's the torture approach. The nurture approach is to your point. It's, hey, dude, let's be friends. How are you doing? I love your cats. What's going on? I love that you're skiing. Like, we're literally building a friendship. And then where there's an opportunity where we can potentially do business, great. If not, I like you as a person, you like me, m as a person. Sometime in the future, hopefully we do business. But if not, that's okay too. And that vibe is way better than, oh, yeah, hey, I'm texting you. And then, um, like the other person on the other side, you're like, what does this guy want?

Speaker B: Exactly. If you're just reaching out of the blue, they're like, okay, what do they want? But, um, Phil also said this. He's like, quit touching people's bases. And it's just like, why are we touching other people's bases? But if you're constantly invested in them, the birthday shout out every year, or the anniversary shout out, or I noticed you were doing this. You watch my Instagram and you do the fire emoji. Wow, that looks like a lot of fun, right? And engages in a conversation. And so when the ask comes, which the ask was to be on the podcast, which is not a hard ask, but, like, we're already engaged instead of, like, out of the blue, right? And it's just like, oh, we have a genuine relationship. And so when that ask comes, like, rob, who do you know? Or I'm looking to expand my offices beyond because, um, I'm actually going to buy a second home in Texas. Who do you know out there that I could connect with. I am immediately going to be like, I know this company, I know these people. I'm going to hook you up. Right.

Speaker A: It's a transfer of trust. Right. And then I want to bring it back to gamification. And I think, I love that what you do with entertainment, with the value that you bring by those four R's, building relationships, helping them retain and really feel they got value out of this feeling, the reward that they get out of participating, whether it's recognition or something else, and then obviously being recognized. I know that when you had the scoreboard when we did our game in New York, that was pretty cool. And then seeing someone fall off of it, it's just. But it's a trust accelerator, and that's what we're really trying to do. And do it in a genuine, fun, dynamic, uh, innovative way. And I think you just bring such, uh, a cool perspective. And you're the first person that I know that has this angle, which is really dope.

Speaker B: I love that you say trust accelerator because I also talk, because I've never used that term before, but I love that I might have to steal it or adapt it because, um, I also talk about when humor is one of the easiest ways to gain trust as well. And so we just want to bridge that gap. And back to Phil's methodology. Relatability helps us get to that point where we can start asking those questions. Because, um, there's so many people who put up facades or they come in with an agenda and you, you figure it out that their agenda is not to authentically connect, but to be thirsty. And you're like, no, no, thank you.

Speaker A: Can see right through it. So authenticity is huge. Showing up to serve, surround yourself with others and help you level up, give first before you want to ask for something. Um, yeah, and uh, be unattached to the result. Like, don't, don't feel like, you know, if, if they can't be done, it's not a fit, move on. You know, there's plenty of other opportunities or maybe a different time that it will work out. So, Rob, I know I've held you up for almost an hour here. I'm so appreciative. I'd love to wrap it up by doing a little lightning round game. I'm going to see if I could do maybe 10% of as good of a job as what you would do with the game. And these are just, uh, a, a couple of quick questions that I want to ask you. And just first thing off the top, of your head. That's why it's lightning around. So my first question to you, sir, is, what is your favorite decade for music?

Speaker B: 80s.

Speaker A: Boom. Favorite, um, retro.

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I don't think there's a wrong or right answer, but that's right. But, uh, yes. 80s. 80s new wave. Not 80s hair bands. 80s new wave. 80s was probably the most. Just, uh, sorry.

Speaker A: Favorite 80s group.

Speaker B: See, that's the hardest. I would. I would have, like, top three, top five. I mean. I mean. I mean, they transcended beyond the 80s. I've seen, uh, you two multiple times. I love Depeche Mode. I love the Thompson Twins. I love the, uh, Pet Shop Boys. So the. Those are, like, my top ones. So. Yeah, there we go.

Speaker A: Brilliant.

Speaker B: You can't. You can't make me pick.

Speaker A: Favorite retro video game.

Speaker B: Oof. So are we talking 80s retro? Nintendo? Nintendo. Oof. Because, um, my favorite retro video game to play in the arcade was, uh, Street Fighter 2 and, uh, Mortal Kombat. Those are my things, but way, way back in the day. Oh, man, that's a hard one. I love Super Mario 3. When it came out, like, it just, like, blew everything else away. But Super Mario 3. Super Nintendo or Nintendo?

Speaker A: Super Mario 3, I think was Nintendo. Yeah, the one with a little tail.

Speaker B: Right, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Super Mario 3, we'll say that.

Speaker A: Awesome. Two for two, man. All right. Favorite country you ever visited? Country you ever visit?

Speaker B: Uh, I don't, like, be pandering. Um, I. There's so many places that I. I mean, I love visiting the London and the uk. Um, I love that it's hard because I actually really like Canada. I love the culture there. I love the people, how just genuine and polite they are, but also passionate. So I would either go with the UK or Canada as. Because I know I could live there, and I speak their language, so there's that. Um, but, um, one of my favorite places I've ever visited was Lake Como, Italy. That was beyond amazing. And, um, I'm going back to the United. United, uh, Arab Emirates for the fourth time. So, uh, it's hard for me to choose. But I guess if I had to move anywhere, it might be the UK because I'd have access to Europe and I could go to all the cool theme parks out there.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. I love UK because I'm a huge fan of the Beatles. I have a whole wall full of, like, Beatles posters. So it's just that lightning.

Speaker B: Favorite Beatles song.

Speaker A: Ah. Um, what's just. Which one's the one? Uh, love Love. Love. That one.

Speaker B: All you need is love.

Speaker A: All you need is love. That's the first one that came off top of my head. But it's so hard to pick your favorite man, like, now and then. Just came out recently.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: It's a dope song. Yeah, it's.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: It's crazy. It's awesome.

Speaker B: The weight. Not the weight. Um, the weight you carry. The love you make is equal.

Speaker A: Carry the weight. Carry that weight.

Speaker B: Carry the weight. Yes, that's the one.

Speaker A: Carry that way. That one, right?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Favorite on stage moment.

Speaker B: Hmm. Um, I've had so many, um, but one that just comes to mind recently because I celebrated a nine year anniversary from one of my big first corporate events is I did this, uh, scavenger hunt game where I tell these contestants to find an object in the room. And this was nine years ago, when people still have flip phones. And I would say, okay, your last object is to find a flip phone. Go. And they're running through the audience and this guy who's trying furiously to find a flip phone, and he's on the other side of the room. A guy raises his hand, has the flip phone in his hand. The guy starts running, and then the guy who's sitting down with the flip phone tosses it up in the air. I saw it in slow motion as the guy run past him. He catches it, and then he sits down on the seat and the whole entire place goes bonkers. And he wins. But it's just like seeing those spontaneous moments where people just win and we all celebrate together are some of my favorite moments. And so for me, that's one of my favorite moments because it was just like where he caught it, admitted he caught it in mid stride and he took it and then he sat down like a movie. The other one, um, magical. My wife caught this moment while I was in Gatlinburg, Tennessee, doing a game show. And, um, I do, uh, uh, a Baywatch challenge. And I make people run in slow motion to get a $5 bill, right? I said, what's the name of the song? Why, it's Baywatch? Because I do all these TV theme songs, and then sometimes I throw in a challenge. So I throw in the Baywatch challenge. I'm like, well, you can only get this $5bill if you run like David Hasselhoff. Well, this gentleman, large gentleman, strips his shirt off and he starts running to me in slow motion. And I'm like, oh, dear. And then he tosses me over his shoulder, and then he circles around, um, and it's one of my favorite moments because my wife captured it on camera and I use that video whenever I get a chance to, and I show it to every audience and I go, thank you for not doing this. And it gets a laugh line every time, man.

Speaker A: So cool. So awesome, man. Uh, I got the last question for you, and the lightning round is, as a kid, what was your favorite? Like board game or just game to play? Whether if board game or not, just when you were bored.

Speaker B: B O R E D There's so many. I really. I liked Stratego. I don't know why I liked it, but I liked it. Um, but I really liked Mousetrap because I loved building the whole Mousetrap thing where you build all the stuff and then, like, it was basically that. I think it's called a, uh, Rube Goldberg contraption or something like that. And I just enjoyed Mousetrap because of that. Um, um. But yeah, those were one of my. Those were my favorite games. Um, um. But I love games that involve creativity and, uh, uh, the functionality of it. It was like putting together a puzzle every single time, and then once you were able to get it. I love Mousetrap.

Speaker A: Brilliant, man. Dude, thank you so much for. For joining me today. The conversation's been so awesome. I learned so much from you all the time, every time I have a conversation. But I love the, uh, uh, the concept of what you do, how it applies to business, how it helps folks better connect, and how it connects to selling as well or building relationships, which is what I consider sellings, which is serving building relationships, being an effective communicator. All of it has a direct connection to what we do in the world of business. So, uh, thanks for being the awesome person that you are, man. Thank you for joining. I really appreciate it. And, uh, thanks everyone for tuning in. Until next time.

Speaker B: Thank you, everybody. Thanks, Carlos.