Leading Quality: A Leadership Mindset

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Seasons Leadership Podcast, where we are committed to working together to make excellent leadership the worldwide standard.

Speaker B: We are going deep into specific leadership topics to help leaders make progress on their leadership journey. You can learn more@, uh, seasonsleadership.com hello, everyone. This is Susan Ireland, and I'm here with Debbie Collard, and we're here for another episode of our Seasons Leadership Podcast. Welcome.

Speaker A: Welcome, everybody.

Speaker B: Today we're going to focus on leading quality. This is something that I think we all have opinions about. Um, but I think it's worth, uh, you know, a conversation about what it really is.

Speaker A: Yeah. And what it is really not.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and why this topic matters to us now. You know, why do you. Why is this coming up for us?

Speaker A: Well, I think for me personally, not speaking for both of us, but it always comes up. It's always a part of, uh. One of my values is excellence. And you can't get excellence without having high quality. And so quality is always in the forefront. And, you know, one knows it when they see it, but they also know when it's not something that's quality. A quality job, a quality process, a quality outcome. Um, and so I. I wouldn't say that necessarily. It's coming up right now to be important to us. It's just always important to us. And we thought we'd talk about it now.

Speaker B: Yes, I know, but for some reason, I do feel like I'm. What you said about. I know when it's not quality, you know, it's almost like it's like a poke in the arm or something, like, oh, uh, and I get frustrated. So maybe it's because we have been talking about this with each other that now I'm noticing, like, all the things around me, services, products, experiences that I wish were higher quality.

Speaker A: Well, absolutely. And, um, I know we're going to get into this, but, you know, quality isn't something that's left to a person's responsibility who has the title of quality. It's. It's not just that it's quality in everything. So I want everything I do because it's one of my values. Excellence. I want everything I do to be high quality. Some people might call that perfectionism, but it's not about perfect. It's about that it's high quality. It's done to the best of my ability and so that I can be proud of whatever the it is. Is it a process? Is it, uh, a. Whatever it is that I produce. When we talk about quality, that's what I think we're talking about is, are you doing everything you can in a manner that's to the best of your ability and has a high quality outcome?

Speaker B: Right. You know, um, it's kind of hard to define quality. You know, like, like if I could give an Oxford Dictionary definition of quality, it's going to give me something. But it's, it's a little bit lacking about what it is. And I like what you're saying because it's almost like a, a tone or a characteristic. It's a level of integrity and care and attention given to something. It's easy for me to think about something like a Stradivarius.

Speaker A: Hm.

Speaker B: You know, that's a beautiful instrument. And um, I think anybody would say yes, it's high quality. And it was because it was built with care and precision and I don't know the processes that they used to, uh, back then make it and to ensure that each one was perfect. Um, but you can look at it and you can hear it and you say like that is a high quality instrument where something like, I may go to, you know, the dollar store and I can pick up a violin, but I am not going to mistake that.

Speaker A: Violins at the dollar store.

Speaker B: Oh, sure they do.

Speaker A: You know, I learned something new today. Yeah.

Speaker B: It might be made out of plastic. I can give it to my 2 year old grandson and you know, it's no problem. But, um. But there's a difference there.

Speaker A: Undoubtedly.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, I notice it with clothes, I notice it with reports. Somebody who writes a report. You know, I can see that somebody has spent a lot of time on it.

Speaker A: You know, I'm gonna maybe bring up an unpopular, uh, opinion in this topic, but, um, AI AI is leading to a lot of less than stellar quality.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Because it's not that it's not capable of it. It's because people are depending on it to do the job for them and they're not checking it. They're not checking to make sure. Does this sound like me? Does this reflect what I was asking that it. Did it answer the question? Is it correct?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. So there's a lot of my recent example and this is, is it's kind of obvious to me when someone didn't if they used AI or not. I might not know except for when they don't change anything about it and it comes across as very obvious. I will get scam texts or phone calls and stuff. And it's clear that it's not a person who knows what they're talking about on the other end. Where I might get taken in if it was higher quality, but thank goodness it's not.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but it is really obvious when something's not high quality, like you said, even if you can't define exactly what it is, it's really clear what it isn't.

Speaker B: Right. You can't, it's, it's, it's hard to put your finger on. You know exactly what it is. What's wrong with this that it's not feeling exactly right. But, um, but when sometimes I would

Speaker A: say, right, Susan, because if something's not high quality, like uh, let's say an automobile, like you bought an automobile, and uh, the buttons don't work the way they're supposed to, or a piece of the car falls off or something, then you know that's not high quality. High quality means getting everything that you ordered and paid for. Right. In working order.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: In that case. But I think the definition varies by what you're talking about, and that makes it harder to pinpoint generally.

Speaker B: Right? Exactly. Exactly. But we all know what it is. And uh, I mean to ourselves, you know, we know and, and when we're in a working, uh, situation and we're all contributing to something, we know what quality is or the expectation is there maybe for high quality. M. So for leaders, leading quality is one, I think, of the most fundamental things a leader can do. Um, because maybe everybody doesn't have the same idea of what quality means. Right. So the leader can set those expectations and lead the team to that and

Speaker A: define it for them.

Speaker B: Right. You know, last month when we talked about the leadership and management system, we talked about the difference between leading and managing.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And so we can apply that same thought here. Leading quality and managing quality, both are really important. Both are needed, but they are different. So leading quality is setting those expectations, leading the team to a quality culture. Managing quality might be managing the specific process, uh, managing the compliance to something, measuring, reporting, that kind of thing. That's super important to do to know where you are and to um, you know, to build or, um, process something to certain requirements. You want to know what that is?

Speaker A: Absolutely. And um, it goes right along with, as you said, our definitions of management versus leadership. Because management is about those processes that you use to accomplish whatever you're trying to accomplish. But leading is all about the people. So as the leader, you've got to set that, right, those expectations right from the beginning. And um, then live to those expectations and implement them in a way that, no, we will not accept poor quality. We will not let that Be an outcome in this organization or team.

Speaker B: Right. And it's important for a leader to talk about this because talking to the people is treating them as human beings, um, and welcoming their unique gifts and contributions to whatever you're doing. Not treating them like cogs in a machine and a process, because they can't be.

Speaker A: We are imperfect human beings. Right. So the best we can do is like, what are the standards I'm. I'm expected to work to and then meeting those and for the leader to be there to support them when they need something to enable them to live up to those expectations.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: Like, oh, I'm not getting, you know, the parts that I need in. So therefore, I can't produce this high quality product. Okay. The leader's job is to go make sure that everything that the people need, that they have the support and the tools that they need to manage quality and create quality products.

Speaker B: Right. Well, and it's just, uh, having everybody understand that this is what we're doing here. We are creating something of a quality nature.

Speaker A: And Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker B: Knowing that just helps you. I mean, it makes, at least. It makes me want to maybe go above and beyond, to think beyond my maybe specific job. Uh, you know, I can check the box or I can talk to somebody around me, and we can maybe make this whole thing better. And so it's continually improving. It's not. It's not a stagnant kind of measurement. Right. It's continually.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Moving.

Speaker A: Right, Absolutely. And, um, there are, I guess, common mistakes or pitfalls that people fall into in this thinking about quality. Right. So, uh, you mentioned one earlier, and it's mistaking compliance, like, oh, I did what I was supposed to do for quality. That may be quality if the expectations are high enough that it equals that. But very rarely is that true. And so it's, you know, compliance or quality assurance, as you sometimes hear, is not quality. Not what we're talking about with this definition. We're talking about that it's the best it can be in alignment with the expectations.

Speaker B: Right, right. And it's not only the. I think it's broad expectations too. It's maybe, um, to, to your process for your job. But it's also, if you think about the expectations of the customers and the expectations of the people who work around you. And, and that is kind of a fluid thing. That's why the continuous improvement part of it is also, I think, part of the definition of quality.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes people get, uh, mixed up in that too, though, because they say well, what do you want? Do you want me to meet the customer's expectations or your expectations? Do you want me to meet the supplier's expectations or this boss or that boss or what quality ought to be understanding and meeting all those expectations.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And it's not an either or kind of a thing. And one of my biggest, biggest, biggest pet peeves and experiences actually that I learned from in my career was quality has got to be number one. It's got to be the one thing you go for. And it is more important than schedule and it's more important than cost. And I know there's probably a lot of business people right now going, no, no, schedule is more important or no, no, cost is more important? If my belief personally is if you have quality, the other two will follow right in line and follow along with it. You'll get the other two free.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: But, uh, if you got to be focused on quality first, whereas if you focus on schedule first, you won't necessarily get quality. Because what if you're behind schedule, then you're going to cut corners, you're not going to get the quality.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, what if you say money's the most important? I was watching a TV show yesterday and they had this efficiency expert come in and the efficiency expert said, and, and the efficiency expert was watching firefighters, first responders and saying, why did you have a plan B in place when it turns out you didn't need it? And I said, but what if we did need it? Somebody might have died if we didn't have it in place. Right. But the efficiency expert would say, oh no, but that's inefficient. Right. So you, you have to think about quality. What is the best job and best outcome and best product for this? That's the highest quality.

Speaker B: Yeah. I think what you're talking about, uh, Debbie, here is a quality mindset.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is, exactly.

Speaker B: It is. Because if you think about that, uh, just a narrow definition, you know, do you want it? How it. How many times have I heard this? Do you want it right or do you want it fast? You know, and it's like, yes, I want it all. I mean, and you know, I want to, I want to, uh, support the customers, I want to support, you know, the environment. I want it all. And that's hard. And it takes a quality mindset to really think through everything and make the best, you know, decision based on what, you know, with number one being in mind. Quality.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: But not to cut something else, right?

Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it is hard. But if You've got that mindset and you're saying, okay, quality is my number one priority. I want this to be high quality. Sometimes that means negotiating the other stuff.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: So you say your customer wants some extra bells and whistles and stuff. And their definition of getting a high quality thing is it has these extra bells and whistles. And you tell them, well, yes, we can do that. Absolutely, we can do that. It's going to cost you more.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: So it's a negotiation about them paying for more than what they contracted for. Right. Um, let's talk about schedule. Sometimes something breaks and if you want to produce this quality product, you have this quality mindset about, okay, number one, most important thing is quality. Then you are going to negotiate with the people you're delivering it to. It could be the end customer, it could be an in process customer and say, I'm sorry, this is gonna bump us out a few days because we didn't have what we needed. If anybody ever watches HGTV and sees construction going on, uh, they always run into some problem, right? Always. Always.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And we both experience this as well.

Speaker B: I can't think of any project that doesn't have something. Exactly.

Speaker A: And so when it happens, then you got to look at it and say, okay, in order to still get the highest quality outcome, what has to be adjusted? And sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's, um, schedule, sometimes it's both. Right. And you just gotta, as a leader with that mindset.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Figure it out and negotiate for that.

Speaker B: Exactly. And not leave it to the QA team or the person who's checking the final product. You know, that poor person, you need that. You need the QA team, you need the person checking the final product. But to let lay all the quality on that person or that team is disaster, uh, waiting to happen.

Speaker A: Right. If quality can't be corrected in, it can't be corrected in. It has to be built in to start with. And that starts with the leader and their mindset.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: If they're thinking, oh, the QA team doesn't have a seat at the table and we're not going to put quality first. You know, schedule trumps everything. Or, or, um, being under budget is the most important thing, then you are setting yourself up for failure because you are going to have quality issues, issues, and then you're probably going to cut someone's head off on the QA team when it fails.

Speaker B: Exactly. Right.

Speaker A: That is a vicious cycle. The wrong direction. Because the quality can't be corrected in. It can be built in from the start.

Speaker B: Well, and you're, and you're sending the message to the rest of the team and your customers and everybody that this is an okay, acceptable way to run the business. And, and the products are fine. You're, you know, it's going to be, this is the way it is. You know, and so nobody's going to go step out of their way to do something better because no, that's just not the culture.

Speaker A: And you're going to find nobody wants to be on your QA team either.

Speaker B: No. Very true.

Speaker A: You know, so I think what we're talking about here is quality is everyone's responsibility.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: But it starts with the leader. Yeah, it starts at the top. Setting that culture and that mindset and expectation for everybody in the organization. And so when something goes wrong, as it inevitably does, then it's about saying, okay, let's evaluate what happened here so we can make sure it doesn't happen again. The continuous improvement you talked about, and let's not cut people's heads off. Let's look at our processes and manage the situation. So that quality is the first priority.

Speaker B: Right. And everybody's on board wants, wanting to do that because they're part of this culture.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: Let's just do a little diversion here because we're talking about pitfalls here. So have you ever seen or experienced when, uh, leader has gone maybe way too far on the quality mindset or the focus on quality?

Speaker A: I have not personally experienced. Have you?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, and, and here's the way. And, and it's maybe, I don't know, the quality mindset is there. Yes. But they apply it to everything. So I think that sometimes there's a priority. So if there is, um, uh, so say you're making a product and so the product, you know, has to be quality. Yes. But then maybe somebody sending an email to the leader to say, hey, I want to let you know something happened, this is it. And instead of focusing on the content, the feedback I get is the, you know, you have, you know, terrible English and misspellings in this email. And. Yeah, well, and the thing about it is is that that, okay, I get that, you know, you do send a message if you have terrible English and misspelling in an email. Um, but the whole point of the message was missed. So, so then you're focused on, okay, I'm not gonna send a message or I'm not gonna send an email to this boss because I get, you know, my head bit off if it's not perfect. So then what happens Is then the, like the wheels of the, the machine that you're trying to keep going are starting to grind down, um, you know, and not move. And maybe information isn't flowing the way it should.

Speaker A: Yeah, I can see how perfectionism would get in the way of that quality mindset as a leader. Um, feels like to me, of course I wasn't there for that example, but it feels like to me that, um, it's maybe more an issue with a particular person and their perfectionism than it is like the mindset. And I'm not sure that I see the cause and effect that they had a quality mindset. And then I think it's more probably they had a perfectionism issue.

Speaker B: Think you're per. Yeah, that's exactly right. I think that you, that you stated that better. It's perfectionism. So they kind of will blame quality. They'll say I, I have a quality mindset. But then they are moving into the perfectionism to personally, uh, their, Their um, approach to maybe leading is, is. Is. Is not. It's just a different approach. It's got. They've got perfection and issues that they need to.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I think if I found myself as the person sending the email in that case, I would still send another email, but what I would do is get an ally near me to proofread it and, you know, make sure it's perfect enough to go to them so that they could actually receive the message I was trying to send. Yes.

Speaker B: No, I totally get that. And I think that. And I actually have seen a lot of this and um, I think. And that's exactly what happens. And, and so it works and people work and they adjust. Except that when you really look at the whole situation from afar, it's um, like a lot of energy is focused on trying to make that leader, like read the content rather than the leader just reading the content so they can just move on quickly. And, and when you were. And when you work in a, uh, environment as we are today, when we have really people from all over the world and you know, sometimes the grammar is different and then maybe the spelling is different and so focusing on things that don't matter. Yeah. So when we got from quality to perfectionism. But I guess there is a difference. Like there is a difference. Quality and perfectionism, two different things. It's a part of that tone, uh, and the characteristics of what we're really talking about quality.

Speaker A: And I also would go so far as to say that person who reacts in that way is more in a management mindset than a leadership mindset.

Speaker B: Yes, very good, Very good point. Yes.

Speaker A: So we talked about like some pitfalls for it. Let's talk about how can people understand quality and build quality from the start?

Speaker B: Right. Well, uh, you said it at the beginning, I think, setting the intention. So as the leader, setting the intention for the group, the processes, the product, and, and making the expectations clear.

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And then modeling and reinforcing that behavior.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Right. So if a, uh, problem crops up, it's a perfect opportunity for that leader to then model the desired behavior around putting quality first and the quality mindset and demonstrating that for all the people that work with them, um, so that they can see it being reinforced.

Speaker B: Right, right. And then asking questions, um, to reveal any gaps or, or maybe wrong assumptions or maybe some problems, but asking the questions, positive quality mindset, you know, not to shoot the messenger, but to fix the issue that is, is brought forth because of the questions. It's better to find it early on than let it go downstream and find it in your final product.

Speaker A: Absolutely. And then also, uh, way of reinforcing that quality mindset. And that culture, the quality culture that you want to have is recognizing and rewarding quality efforts in the moment, not just outcomes. Right. So in the moment, someone did a really good presentation and answered all the questions. Great. Recognize and reward that. Give them a high five, whatever the recognition looks like. It doesn't have to be something fancy.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: It should be in the moment, real time, uh, and letting people know that, that you value the quality that they were bringing in that moment.

Speaker B: The other thing is maybe, um, as you're talking to your team, bring in some real world examples, you know, of maybe something you've been experiencing in the past or maybe that you've seen, maybe a mentor that you've had, uh, you know, bringing your own stories, I guess, is what I'm trying to say about it.

Speaker A: I got to see that modeled firsthand, um, by several different leaders. But one of them that I, that always stuck with me was he would bring from his real life and his family's life, which they maybe didn't appreciate all the time, um, examples of what quality did look like and what quality didn't look like. So let's say, for example, that he was buying, uh, had just gotten a deck remodel and was buying some new deck furniture. And he would come in and tell the story of the whole, uh, searching for and then purchasing this deck furniture experience. And he would use those as examples of what he felt was quality and what wasn't. Quality. And so by doing that, he's teaching everybody around him and modeling for them. Here's what quality looks like when it's happening. And this, um, is the kind of stuff we want and, or this is the kind of stuff we don't want. Wow.

Speaker B: Do you think he was doing that on purpose?

Speaker A: I mean, he absolutely was doing that on purpose.

Speaker B: Wow. Wow, that's a great idea.

Speaker A: Yeah, it, it was, uh, wonderful because you could not be so attached to the outcome because it wasn't happening in your world. You're listening to a story about it and then you're getting the learnings from it. You're going, oh, yeah, okay, so now I'll recognize that when I see it.

Speaker B: That's great. That's a great idea. I wish I would have known that earlier in my career. What? Well, let's talk about some more, um, takeaways, actions that people can take right away.

Speaker A: First and foremost, I would say check your own quality mindset. Yeah, right. Do I have a quality mindset? Is that my first priority when I'm thinking about things as a leader or am I thinking about, oh, no, I need it by this time or I need it for this much money. Right. So check your own quality, uh, mindset. And what, what are you setting as a leader? As the expectation.

Speaker B: That's great. And then maybe when you're having your meetings, do a quality check in with everybody. Make it a regular part of your meetings.

Speaker A: Maybe like with the example that I just gave. Right, yeah, we could model that, um, and ask, is this the best we can do within the parameters we have? Right. So is this the best we can do for the customer, whether it's an internal or external customer? Um, within the parameters we have.

Speaker B: Right, right. Uh, the other thing is make time to hear feedback. You know, a feedback loop. You want, you want to hear the criticisms or the ideas that people have. Um, so you, you need to make time to hear those.

Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And then, um, be willing to share your own experiences and what you learned from those experiences. Much like this leader we talked about, but not just broadly at the beginning of the meeting. But share as you're going through real life examples so people can see, you know, see, get a visual of what that looks like.

Speaker B: Mhm. Well, it kind of gets you. That gets out of that perfectionism. Right. We're all human. Things happen, recognize when they happen, fix it and move on.

Speaker A: Recognize that we're not perfect.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: And so we can't, we can't expect perfectionism from others either.

Speaker B: No, no, well, you know, when I think back about all of this and you think about, um, you know, the question about, uh, is this the best we can do for the customer? You can say, is this the best I can do? And as part of our legacy of leader, as a leader, or even our, our brand, you know what, how do we want to show up? Are we showing up, uh, the way we want to. Will people think of us as people who, um, provide a quality service, a quality product and just reflect about that?

Speaker A: Absolutely. And I would say that applies to every leadership topic that we discuss on this podcast, Susan. Every single one is think about how you want to be experienced as a leader. Do you want to be experienced as a leader who has that quality mindset, or do you want to be experienced on the other end of the spectrum? Like Susan's example of the person who was focused on the wrong things and trying to be perfect or trying to get perfection out of people.

Speaker B: Right. For all of our listeners, we'd love to hear what you think about this. What is your legacy about quality? How do you want to show up and what are you doing, uh, in your leadership journey to. To. To do that?

Speaker A: Yeah. To make sure that you do show up the way that you want to. Yeah. You can put the. You can, uh, share your stories or thoughts on any of our social channels or send them to us via email. Real. Our email is really easy. It's either Debbie or susanleadership, uh,.com and just. We'd love to hear from you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Maybe use some of the examples in future podcasts.

Speaker B: That would be great. Well, thank you everybody.

Speaker A: Make sure you join us next month. We'll have another thrilling and riveting leadership topic to share with you.

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, thank you. Bye. Thank you for joining us today. We hope you found this conversation helpful and inspiring.

Speaker A: We invite you to join our community on Kajabi. It's ah at www. Kajabi. Com seasonsleadership. There you will find more resources to help you on your unique leadership journey.

Speaker B: Join us m Next time for more conversation focused on leadership.

Speaker A: Excellent.