Jack Knight : From Jail at 19 to Helping 200+ People Break Into Tech Sales

Speaker A: Found myself in a jail cell at 19 when Jesus spoke to me and he's like, jack, you've been living life your way. That's why you're in this jail cell. If you live your life for me, I'm going to give you a brand new life. Please don't do the open to work thing. It's almost like if you were dating and you've been single for like 15 years and people are like, what's wrong with this? You're not in demand, but it's not going to help you at all. Red flag number one for me is if you don't have that deep reason why you're doing this, I would never hire someone who's like,

Speaker B: all right, welcome back to the SDR Hire Podcast Podcast. And if you are new here, my name is Stefan. And all we do on this channel is talk about sales. SDRs, account executives, setting, closing, you name it. Especially getting into sales, tech sales most often. And speaking of which, today I'm talking with a guy who is actually an expert in helping people get into tech sales. So Jack Knight has already helped over 200 people get hired and launch their tech careers in tech sales with a 99% success rate. So he started off like the most of us, like an sdr, and then he built himself up into a killer SDR manager from where he became a top coach in the, in the SDR hiring space. And so, Jack, man, welcome to the SDR Hire podcast. Finally.

Speaker A: Yeah, man, I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for having me, bro.

Speaker B: 100%. I've been looking forward to this conversation, man. You're a legend on LinkedIn and a lot of people kind of quote you and rely on your, you know, the thing that you talk about. And, uh, I just recently, obviously, when I was going through your profile and preparing for the podcast, I actually saw something interesting. It's like the first sentence on your LinkedIn profile, and it says that at the age of 19, you were in jail and you mentioned five years being a drug, uh, addict, dropping out of college twice. And, you know, compared to where you are right now, it's a huge difference. And so can you maybe just give us a little bit of understanding? Because things that affected your life then have led to where you are right now. Right, but. But maybe you could share a little bit about that.

Speaker A: Yeah. 101 of the.1 of the first things I would do with new SDRs, I would hire. It was actually a module we had built into onboarding and training. We would spend about two Hours working on their why. What is your why? What is the thing that drives you? And the reason I'm bringing this up is because my life why was formed through the trials, the hardships, like going to jail, being a drug addict, like having gone through intense suffering and loss in my life has really shaped what drives me now, what my motivation is now. And so, yeah, I grew up in a military family. My parents did the best they could. It's just kind of an unstable environment though, when, you know, your dad's traveling every few months, your family moves every three years. Um, my mom and dad definitely had their flaws, like with my dad being gone, so I didn't have a super close father figure in that way. He provided, he did a great job. But emotionally, I didn't have, like the. The mentorship from my dad. And you being a dad, like, you get that it's important. And then my mom, because we had instability in the home, she kind of leaned on alcohol to get through some of the hard times. So we had family growing up, but it wasn't a super functional family. And, uh, that led me in high school to try to find what the meaning of. Of manhood is. And in high school, you typically look at the seniors to define that. And so for me, it was like, oh, you just go party. Like, that's what living life's about. And so that led me on a path to drug addiction, to, you know, living a double life, really. I've. I have an amazing wife. She was actually my high school sweetheart at the time, but we were two completely different people. With her, I was the very honest, hardworking football player, boyfriend, Ed Sheeran, all the things, right? And then when I was not with her, I was lying to her about where I was doing drugs, who I was hanging out with, all the things. And so, yeah, my. My, uh, childhood and even early adulthood was just very messy. And I found myself in a jail cell at 19. It was in that jail cell when, when Jesus spoke to me and he's like, jack, you've been living life your way. That's why you're in this jail cell. If you live your life for me, I'm gonna give you a brand new life. And being 19 in a jail cell with a whole list of charges I was gonna have to deal with, I was like, that sounds good. I'll take that. So I said, yeah, and got, uh, connected with some really good people that invested in me when I didn't feel worthy of investment because I'd burnt so many relationships. I had just been such a bad person. But I had these people that were like, hey, I, I see your potential. I see what God, I want to breathe into that, I want to invest in that and uh, bringing that full circle to the why. You know, my why has, has been to give other people the opportunities that I was given when I didn't deserve them. And so that led me into SDR leadership where it's like I get to work with these people who may or may not have a traditional background. They might come from really messed up situations. I hired this one girl, Vietnamese immigrant, living in her car. She was one of our best reps I've ever hired. And the point is, is like in, in the SDR world, we get such an opportunity to give people a brand new life through, through the opportunity. And so I feel like in many ways my why that drives my career is I want to give people the opportunities that I was given when I didn't deserve them.

Speaker B: Um, that's very profound. I'm trying to think of, of a good, good next next step from here. Uh, it really sounds like you went through a lot of hardship, obviously to an extent self induced, but then you know, you, you didn't really know better or you didn't really have role models. And like I can totally relate with potentially the father figure type of thing. And then it's funny how it drives the success later in life, at least for some people. But for some people it does not. And so you talk to a lot of SDRs. You've hired God knows how many SDRs in your SDR leadership. I, I was hoping I could ask this question later, but I, I feel like it's a good moment. So you said you want to give opportunities, right? Because uh, there are so many different backgrounds of people. Some people use those opportunities and some don't. Have you been like 100% effective when it comes to like choosing who you give the opportunity to or have them? Have there been people who like, don't really take up that opportunity to the uh, the, the extent that they should have?

Speaker A: It's a great question and I was told early on in SCR leadership that you won't know if you hired well until like six months down the road with that hire. That's when you're going to find out if they were a good hire or not. You can do a bunch of vetting beforehand. You can go with your gut. I was always the manager that hired by gut and it worked until it didn't. And what I mean by that is I made A lot of awesome hires, and it's because I would focus way more on the internal drive than anything else. I don't care if you've sold or not, sold or cold called or not, I don't care. Why do you want to do this? Because this job is very hard, and transparently, it sucks. There's a lot of awesome things about it. Don't get me wrong, right? You get paid really well, you get to work remote, all the things, but it's also a hard job. So why are you doing this? Because if you're doing the job just to do the job, you're going to suck at this thing, and I'm going to have to fire you in six months. But if you're doing it because you know the career potential of where this takes you, and you have family to provide for, or you have these very real things in life you're trying to do, I know you're going to be a good hire, because I know when things get hard, you're going to have something to dig into internally. So that's what I would index for. And that typically led to great hires. I think if I were to put a percentage on it, 80 to 90% of my hires were super solid. The 10 to 20%, I knew they weren't going to be good hires, but they said the right things anyway, and I wanted to give them a chance. And that was always my issue and downfall as an SDR leader is I was always so optimistic about people and I just wanted to help them. Like, it's. If I just give them this chance, it'll change their life. And it was me being too emotional, too optimistic, and not seeing some of the red flags that I should have

Speaker B: seen, being too romantic. I've been in, in, um, in that spot more than a few times. What, in, in your experience, what are, what are those red flags? Because salespeople that are like natural salespeople are sweet talkers. They know what to say naturally, intuitively, which leads even the best of us to potentially making bad decisions. But, like, in your experience, what are those potential red flags?

Speaker A: I think red flag number one for me is if you don't have that deep reason why you're doing this, like, if you don't have the why, then you're not going to be able to do the what, and you're not going to. You're not going to do the how very well either. And so you need the why. That. But that was a obvious red flag for me. Like, I, I would never hire someone who's like, well, my friend told me about tech sales and it's a great way to like work from home. And it sounds like a cool career. Nope, sorry, not going to cut it. You're not going to do 90 dials at the end of the month because you're behind on quota and, you know, things suck. One of the, one of the spicy things. This might be controversial, but I don't love seeing SDRs who have been stuck in the SDR role. And I feel bad for them because sometimes genuinely, they've just had a bad run. The first company they went to, they got laid off. Second company, they just weren't able to hit quota. Third company, toxic leadership. Like, I understand all of that, but if I've seen someone who's had a lot of experience as an SDR and they never promoted or they haven't been able to transparently show me real numbers and attainment, I just know that they're going to do the same thing that they've done at the last companies. And that has happened every single time. I felt that every single time it's happened where they do the same thing. They get six months in performance, starts to really drop and they, we have to phase them out and that always sucks. But you know that that's probably a, again, a spicy topic. One we can get into if you want. But I feel bad for the, uh, the people who are just stuck as us.

Speaker B: Yeah. Any other.

Speaker A: No, you need your why and you need to show me that, you know, you can progress in your role and that you're making positive momentum. If you can do that, then I will definitely take a look at you.

Speaker B: For the folks that have been long in their roles, I 100 agree. I don't see it as spicy at all because definitely there are some folks that just had bad runs and like it stacked one after another and then they didn't really know how to get out of it and they just needed a little bit of good quality leadership, somebody to show them the way and then they're. They're up. However, there usually is a reason why folks are stuck in the role for like three, four or five years. I had a guy, eight years, but it's, it's totally different outside of the U.S. but still, it's strange. Eight years is quite a lot. And he's had some closing experience, some account management experience, but essentially bdr long story short, he really, really didn't work out. And um, it ended up being like underperformance, just doing the bare minimum not to get fired, which is kind of what I flagged. And then, and then it was just, it was just a bad, bad, bad choice. And I knew, I knew I had a feeling, but I, I didn't really follow my gut.

Speaker A: Yeah, because they, they seem like the safer picks at the time because it's like, well, I don't have to really train them. They know how outreach works, or Salesloft, whatever. But I think, uh, I think it's that when you're a new sdr, and especially if you're brand new to the industry, you've got a chip on your shoulder, you've got something to prove, and you finally made it to what you think is this holy grail of a career. I made it into tech sales. I've got to go prove myself now. I've got to. I get to enjoy, like, the, the people I work with. They're typically working at car dealerships or door to door. They're doing hard freaking jobs, man. Like, they don't get to sit at home behind a computer and make cold calls. They're working all day. And I think once you've done the SDR job, you're now entitled because you think you know what, you, uh, do know what to expect, and so you take advantage of it. You don't work as hard, you don't have a chip on your shoulder, you don't have anything to prove, and you're burnt out because the last three companies you were at, nothing good happened. Now you're the victim. And so that's, that's true. And so that's why my best hires have always been people outside of tech. But I also don't necessarily know what to tell these people to help them. And that's why I think it's spicy, because it's like, I don't want to. I don't want to, like, come out and condemn a whole group of people and not offer a solution. But it's like, I don't know. I don't know what to tell them. Like, yep, uh, yeah, take accountability, I guess. I don't know.

Speaker B: It's always hard whenever we fall into the, um, victim mindset. And it's so easy to do that. Like, I had four years of therapy and I find myself sometimes like, oh, poor me. No, it's like, just. It doesn't really matter because I'm the one kind of crafting my fate anyway. But that's the tough part. And so I think that's a good. As good of a, an advice as any, is just like, Take accountability. Take things into your own hands. Do you want to do this? Awesome. Do it and then crush it. And then you'll see, you'll see a way out. Otherwise, just look for something else. It's, it's okay. But like, you have a vast experience when it comes to being an STR manager. I didn't want to get into this, but, like, you, you, you, you kind of fired some neurons there. I was like, I, I have observed something about SDR managers actually, specifically, which is they become very hushed in, into the roles, and they stop really having that chip on the shoulder. Stop really? At least, uh, you know, I've seen that they stopped really grinding like, uh, an SDR usually does. They turn into like, you know, report gatherers and like, you know, people who hire and fire people instead of really being leaders. How did you, I mean, I, I, I, I believe that it's easy to fall into that. And so what has been your experience? Like, have you, have you been challenged by, by, you know, complacency?

Speaker A: Dude, it's so, it's so rampant. And it's honestly, because as an sdr, you have a ton of accountability, but as an SDR leader, you don't really have a lot of accountability, especially day to day. It's more just like, hey, in general, how's the team pacing? Cool. We're kind of good. Okay, let me make up five reasons why we're not there. And it's your fault. Okay. That buys me another few months on the team type thing. I had the, I guess, luxury or privilege of always being the youngest person on the team, on the leadership team, because I was promoted. I don't know the exact years. I was probably 23 when I was my first SDR leader, then 24, 25. And my co managers were like 35, 40 in some cases. And here I am this chippy, young, you know, spring chicken SDR that's now a leader. I'm bringing the energy, I'm bringing the fire. Plus, I love people. I genuinely feel like my work is a service that I give to God truly. And so for me, it's a big deal to get to work every day. And it doesn't always feel like that you're tired, whatever. But I was a young person who had imposter syndrome like crazy. So I had to wake up every day and prove that I belonged at that company. So that helped me. But to your point, I have seen that every company I've been to and it, it even up to the director and the VP and The. Even the CRO level, where it's like y' all have just stopped caring. It feels like, like you found a good company that's letting you coast. You have enough of a, uh, relationship or relationship capital where you're good and you actually don't really care about taking us to the next level, about improving things. You're good with status quo. And that would frustrate me as a young leader because I'm like, hold on, I'm busting my butt out here. I'm proving myself. And I'm looking at Sally over on the other team, and it's like, what are you doing for your reps? Like, what? And yeah, that's. It's true, man. It's true. I think. I think it's easy to get entitled but burnt out at the same time.

Speaker B: For sure. For sure. Because I suppose it goes back to the why, whether you didn't have it in the first place or you kind of forgot about changed midway, which is still fine. And then that fire gets kind of snuffed out, which in your case, I don't see it happening, uh, at all. And it seems like you've only progressed as I've seen. You've been in like three companies, an SDR manager, and from there you started your consultancy. And so maybe you can just give us a little bit of context what has led up to you starting the, the um, sword advisory coaching business.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, what steps have happened and have taken, taken you to that spot that you are kind of comfortable in, in doing a Coaching your own business, you know.

Speaker A: Yeah. A lot of discomfort as you know, Stefan, having having your own business. But it started organically, which is super cool because I lived it. So I got into tech and then I promoted to a leadership. And as I was just living my life as an SDR leader, I actually had a, ah, friend reach out, like, hey, Jack, how do I get into tech sales? And I jumped on the phone with him, we talked for like three hours. I told him everything. Cause I was a manager, I knew everything. Like, you gotta interview this way, you gotta present your resume this way, so on so forth. And he got a job very quickly and it was like, that was cool. And then I had another friend reach out a couple months later. Same thing happened. We got him a job really quickly. And I had it happen three more times. Five people total where I just got them into tech sales, but I was on the phone for three hours every time. So I got smart one day and I was like, I'm just Gonna write down the process of what I say on the phone. Looking back, if I had AI, this would have taken a lot quicker, but didn't have that. So I basically built this very rough duct tapey Walmart style guide of just like, this is super low quality, but this is what you do. And I was able to give that to a few people, they got jobs. And I was like, this is all so interesting. I then formalized it more because at that point I had started to, as an SDR leader, post about open SDR positions on my team. And I would include that as a resource at the bottom of my post. Like, hey, if you, if you're trying to break into tech, go click this thing. Not thinking of it as a business at all. Then I moved to Florida. My buddy, he's an online fitness coach and he shares this whole model with me that people will pay me to coach them to get into. In his case, fitness, in my case tech sales. And then a few divine things happened for sure. Just confirmation that this was what I was supposed to do. And, uh, yeah, August 3rd of 2024 last year I put in my two weeks with my SDR leadership company and decided to go all in on this. And I've been doing it ever since.

Speaker B: That's beautiful. What, what were those divine things?

Speaker A: Yeah, so one of them, um, was I was working as an SDR leader. I was building this software business called callblitz. It's a SaaS cold calling platform. And then I was kind of doing this on the side, just kind of helping people a little more intentionally. And I, I was just so burnt out. I would get off work almost every day and just go into my bedroom and just cry like, God, I'm so tired. I have no energy for any of this. I don't know what you want me to do though, because you're. Everything is on my plate and you're not taking anything off of it. And there's a, uh, there's a Bible verse in John 15 that says that he'll cut off any branch that's not bearing fruit and he'll prune any branch that is bearing fruit that it might bear more fruit. So that was just like my everyday, like God cut off what doesn't belong. Like, take these businesses off my plate if you don't want me doing them. And circumstance through circumstance for call Blitz, I had the best guy that could ever take over the company if I had to dream it up and give it to you. He calls me out of nowhere one day and he's like, hey, I want to talk to you about Call Blitz. And I was like, dude, you don't even know what's happening right now. And, uh, now Ryan Reissert, he has taken over Call Blitz. And he's running the Go to market over there, and he's doing a great job for, for the, for this business. I had so many financial wins work out where it was just like, there's a story in the Bible about Gideon, and Gideon is asking for proof that God said something. And basically he puts out this fleece outside. And he's like, all right, God, if this was you. When I wake up, the fleece should be wet, but the grass should be dry. And it happens. And then he's like, hold on, I'm going to do this again, but backwards. If the fleece is dry but the grass is wet, I know it's you. So we, we call it like the, the fleece moment, where it's like, I asked God so many times, God, if this, if you want me to leave my job and go do this, then make this happen. I did that, like five times, and each time it happened. This the sixth time, though, my fleece question for God was like, if this person signs up for my coaching program, I know it's you. I'm all in. This is. This is the sixth time, by the way. And the person didn't sign up. And right away I threw my hands up. I'm like, nope, not doing it. It wasn't you. And God's like, so this is how it's going to be. I give you five confirmations, clear as day, and you ask me for a six, I don't come through, and you question all of it and you doubt me. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's how it worked. So, yeah, the, the actual business idea, like when, when the confirmation came, and I don't. I don't mean to get so spiritual on everyone. Like, I. That's not. This is genuinely where this stuff happened. So I just have to share it. I was in my closet praying, and I was just trying to, like, focus on God. And all these business ideas popped in my head about sword, about this business. I was like, all right, God, sorry. Like, I'm just trying to focus on you. I don't want to think about business. Happens again, happens a third time. And then I was like, oh, God, like, you're speaking to me. You want me to go do this stuff? You want. It was the logo, it was the name. It was how I'm actually going to Help people. It was what to charge. Like all of these ideas being downloaded and that was another big moment of like, okay, you're in this, like, you want me to, to actually do this. So a lot more has happened since then, but yeah, it was, it was divine for sure.

Speaker B: Thanks for sharing that. It's really it. Like, this is the first time that I've had like a spiritual conversation on the podcast. It's not really, you know, something people usually even share, but know I saw that you're a very spiritual person on LinkedIn. You share a lot about it and you keep mentioning. And so I was really curious. It sounds like you spend quite a lot of time actually dedicating yourself to God in prayer. How do you even, you know, juggle everything these days? And you know, we spoke about this offline before we started, but like, focus, regardless of what you do, right? Focus is super hard. Um, you have a child now, obviously your wife now your business, God. Uh, how do you juggle everything? Like what, what, what's taking up the most time?

Speaker A: I don't do it. Well, we were talking about Hormozi earlier. Stefan, I think before recording, I think it was him. And I'm sure he got it from somewhere else. But there's this idea that we're spinning these plates all the time and there will be a plate that is not getting spun and will fall and crash. And I really believe that's how life is, where you can only maintain a certain amount of priorities at the same time. And it's actually much less than I think we think we can do. For example, relationships, work, physical, spiritual. Maybe you've got a hobby on the side and you add, relate like friendships, you add extracurricular events. Realistically, we could probably only prioritize like two to three things at most at the same time. And so I've kind of accepted I'm a very perfectionist minded person, but I've kind of accepted that something will always be crashing and I just have to almost be juggling the plates to bring that thing back in circulation, breathe into it, give it some life, and then it'll come back around again. And so there's been times where I've put the gym on the back burner. There's times where I've definitely put my faith and walk with God in the back burner. There's times where I put my relationship with my wife on the back burner, my time with my kids, whatever it. And uh, the interesting thing though is I've never put work on the back burner. And it's because of fear and anxiety and it's because I believe that work is my provision. If I do not work, I will not be provided for. And it's just interesting how my priorities, because as a, as a Christian like my priorities are God, marriage, kids, then work, then everything else truly. But I live backwards all the time. I'm like work, then kids, then maybe marriage, then maybe God. And uh, I'm not good at it. I'm not good at prioritizing that stuff. What usually happens is stuff falls apart, I freak out and then I have this reset with my wife and M with, with God where they're both like, Jack, you're a dumb, dumb. Here's the blueprint, follow the blueprint. We got you covered. And so it's usually a place where of pain that brings me back to the right focus. That's on the deep kind of philosophical level. The tangible thing though that really does help me is my calendar. I time block.

Speaker B: So yeah, I guess another good habit from the SDR days. But I wouldn't really, I mean if you don't mind me kind of giving an opinion at least. Yeah, uh, it's. I 100% agree with you in the sense where you, where you kind of put the work first. Like it is the thing that is providing for everything else. Like it is giving you purpose, it is giving you money to live off of. Like it's not a bad thing. It is giving you energy to look forward to the time you spend with your wife, with your kids. Right. And so I don't. Like you said, you're living life backwards. I don't feel like it is, it is backwards. It's actually just like God and your family are still first from what I hear from you. It's just that they just don't take up as much time because work has to take up more time than potentially something else in order to provide for everything that we. And so uh, it doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything backwards. On the contrary, like it feels very natural and hopefully you get at some point, if that's your wish, to a place where you won't even have to work. But on the other hand, again, work is actually giving to. Right. I mean that's what you're doing, you're serving. And you talk about servant leadership as well, which is what you do. Right. You help people.

Speaker A: Mhm. I appreciate that encouragement because you're, you're right. Like it, it can be a fine line between am I striving working because I don't trust that I'm going to be taken care of. Or am I working from a good place of, hey, I'm adding value to people. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And the, uh, the rewards of that will follow. Then the other concept I've been having to learn as I'm 29 years old now, I'm still relatively young, but I'm old enough to not be like 20 and think I know everything is this, this concept that good things take time. And it sounds so cliche, but I'm one year into this business and I've done a lot in a year, but it doesn't, it doesn't feel like enough. I always feel like I should be in the next season and I should have this built and this done. And I talked to my buddy, he's four years into his business and he's like, dude, I feel the same way, but I'm, I'm three years ahead of you. So that feeling you have, just understand that Rome wasn't built in a day. All the tropes, right, we all hear, but it's true. It's like I built a lot in the first year. I know that three years from now my business will look different and I'll be able to reap more of the rewards of what I've built.

Speaker B: So I've been in this game for four years. I feel like I've done things very backwards. I feel like I haven't moved at all for the last four years at all. Like, literally. Uh, although I know, like, I've seen empirical evidence, but I still feel like it. And I don't think that it goes away ever. Just how we look at it changes, I suppose. And so, you know, you already have a couple of kids, you know, a great marriage, a great thriving business that is doing so well compared to when you started it. So I. It's just beautiful to watch something like that. And so, you know, kudos to you, man. Speaking of your business, you know, what is Sword Advisor? We kind of, you know, tap toe around it. But, like, what is Sword Advisory? Am I even pronouncing it properly? I'm sorry. Yes, I hope, I hope I am. Uh, Sword Advisory, which is such a freaking cool name. Like, I love it, especially obviously, because your last name is Knight, but it's such a cool name. So what is Sword Advisory? What are you doing there? How are you helping people?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I help people break into tech sales. It's very simple. It's Such a competitive field as we all know, and the way 99% of people go about it is the wrong way. People put in applications, they network and they try to get hired. What people need to learn is how to do the job to get the job. That's the tagline, that's what I teach. So I teach people, here's how you go into Apollo, here's how you make sequences, here's how you cold call, here's how you send videos to managers, here's how you actually impress them to land interviews. Then here's how you interview the right way. Every step has its intricacies. They're going to have these assignments they give you. Here's how to do those. So it's a, it's a hand in hand, one on one coaching experience all the way from. I don't know what tech sales is, but I want to get in to. I just signed an offer. Let's rock and roll. And yeah, the name comes from cutting through the noise Sword. And my last name's Knight and I was, I was uh, trying to think of some kind of acronym and I came up with sales will only reward discipline. Sword Sales will only reward discipline. And there's a, there's a Bible verse that says the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword. And so I just felt like there's this like theme of we're helping people cut through the noise. We're helping people land jobs and change their lives forever.

Speaker B: Uh, very, very important topic which I keep coming across more and more and obviously we're in a similar space. I mostly help people by actually getting them hired as a recruiter rather than teaching them how to do it themselves. And I've been actually tempted to do something similar, which is I think how I came across yourself because that's how I, I literally saw the business that you, that I had an idea you already built and it was just, it's such a no brainer these days what I'm seeing. There's so much talent on the market, companies, it's just for every job out there, there's probably a thousand, five, ten thousand people who are just out there and everybody again, going back to what we discussed earlier, falling into that victim mindset is like I applied to 50 jobs and nobody would call me back. Why do you think somebody is, why are you entitled to a callback? Like why, why? What have you done to deserve. And like that's just how the market is right now. There was a period of time where companies couldn't really fill roles. And that was a, uh, good time today. It's extremely hard for candidates, and so the mindset needs to change. Right? So instead of being like, oh, I deserve this, it should be, oh, what. What are all of the things that I can do to secure this spot in this company? And so from what I understand, that's a part of the coaching that you provide. Right. On one hand, you give them the fundamentals and not saying that in a derogative way, you provide fundamentals for the SDR role. Right. The initial skills and how to do specific things for the SDR role and then how to actually assert themselves on. On specific jobs, right?

Speaker A: Yep, precisely. I mean, every job that I've had growing up through high school, so on, so forth, I printed out a resume, even if it had, like, two things on it, because I was 16 and I dressed up nice and went in person and, hey, is the manager here? Yeah, they're. They're in the back. Let me get them. Hey, manager, I wanted to come in person, shake your hand, introduce myself. I'm interested in the position. They're like, oh, no one's done that. Yeah, you're hired. You know what I mean? Why do we think that doesn't translate to, uh, no, but yeah, precisely. We're teaching people how to do that. Yeah.

Speaker B: Beautiful. Interesting thing. As I was kind of thinking through this for myself, I was like, I actually came to a realization. I've never been denied an interview for whichever role. I've. There probably have been some, but I can't really remember them, but I've always at least gotten an interview. And then I was like, okay, so what was I doing different? And it hit me, like, back then, today it's not enough. But back then I would actually, instead of just sending in my resume, right. Or clicking Apply, I would reach out to people on LinkedIn, connect with them, see who's in HR, see what the company was doing. Right. What are some. Some of the objectives that the company is trying to achieve and actually understand the job description. Right. Uh, today, that's probably not enough. You probably teach people a lot more. I have some folks that I've, like, literally similar to how you did. I helped them get like, like, land roles, which included cold calling the managers, sending the voice notes, videos, being persistent, finding a few decision makers, stuff like that. And so this is very, like, it's crucial today. I don't know if this is the same in other jobs. I can assume it is, you know, copywriting hr. I don't know probably it is sdr. You just have to do it and just like you said, do the job to actually land the job and show what kind of an SDR you will be when you land a job. Right. You have an almost perfect score of helping people land their jobs. Have you had like, what's that? 0.01%? Like did something happen? Did they not follow the instructions? What, what really stood in their way?

Speaker A: So funny. I was talking to Chat GPT about this. This is hilarious. ChatGPT told me for legal reasons I, I shouldn't put a hunt. Makes sense, but actually it's a hundred percent. And what I mean is, is that sample sizes of compliant clients, meaning they followed the steps, they did the end of day check ins, they applied to the right amount of jobs. So I have people in my program that, you know, it took them nine months while they, for three months they disappeared on me and they got distracted, whatever. But yeah, I guess Technically it's 100%. I've got the data that proves it. But ChatGPT is like for liability reasons, you should say 99. I should say 99.9999%. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: By the way, your, your disclaimers are beautiful. I read through them. I was like this is smart. Because essentially what you, what we really want is them to follow the steps. Because only by following the steps will they actually achieve the results that you're promising.

Speaker A: Yeah. I have a 90 day guarantee where if someone works with me and they don't get a job in 90 days, they get their money back. And it's because I know what I do works if they, if they do what I tell them to do. And I think that's that kind of what you were just talking about. The market is so crowded now that seemingly it's hard to get a job, but the bar is so low. I mean, I just saw a post last week about a manager who got over 200 applicants. One person called and there was from someone from Sword. That's it.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And so you're talking about other industries too. Uh, if, if we're not even cold calling people for jobs and sales. I know people aren't cold calling for copywriting or marketing. And it's like, man, if people could learn this skill.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I've thought about the long term. Sword 10 years from now we're doing all the verticals, right? Yeah. Because uh, when's the last time a digital marketing agency got a call from someone interested in the position?

Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. That's, that's actually what's missing. I think from. Because we can automate most of the things today. We can kind of hack our way into whatever. Right. Thanks to ChatGPT, AI in general automations, YouTube, you can learn anything. But really like, like lifting up your sleeves and actually like digging in with a uh, with a hard skill like cold calling. That's really cool. Like how amazing would it be? Just like you said, like imagine a copywriter who's like. Hey, wanted to make sure I grabbed your attention. My name is Stefan. I saw that you're, you're open for a copywriting position. Obviously I can send in my resume and my sample work. I wanted to give you a quick call and introduce myself. Like that would be such a crazy idea. That would be so cool. Hope, hope somebody gets inspired by, by this and actually does it and tells us how it, how it went.

Speaker A: M. Mhm.

Speaker B: All right, so I have a couple more questions that are, that are in regards to the quality of SDRs and what's needed today. Not to land a job, obviously we covered that, but to be successful in the job and then we can start wrapping it up. Some good.

Speaker A: Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker B: Okay. So you know, you talk to a lot of SDRs, I talk to a lot of SDRs. And obviously as an SDR manager you did, you did so as well. And you know, the, the SDR role has changed significantly today compared to. Well, not necessarily, but like it had ups and downs. Right. And so what do you see being different today with the job compared to maybe, you know, five years ago?

Speaker A: That's a really good question. I think five years ago you could hide in the herd very well. M. Because teams were bringing in 10, 20 SDRs at a time, throwing them all in sales loft and everyone's just going ham. Right? Super high volume based. But ever since, you know, the last two years, the economic conditions and all the layoffs happened in tech, everyone is really watching SDRs now. It's starting to warm up again, which is great. But yeah, I think there's uh, no hiding anymore. It's like if you, if you suck, you suck. You're not gonna be on the team. Right. So that, that's probably the biggest change is I think there was a lot of average mediocre talent on the market and now it's much more cutthroat. Not in a bad way, but just in a black and white way of. Are you actually adding value to the org or are you not?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Would you agree?

Speaker B: Actually a hundred percent. And I actually like that because if you think about it, SDR has been a cushy job up until recently. From my perspective, when I started, it was a cushy job, meaning, like, you know, you could hide. Hide in the herd. That's a beautiful way to put it. And today it looks more like, you know, an affiliate cutthroat performance role. Not really, but it's more like it because if you are not performing, you will not be here because I don't have a reason to keep you on. Like, I don't care if you are, if you have potential. Like, I need that potential today. And it's fine if you're really trying and I see progress, but if not, there's really not a lot to talk about. 100% agree with you. That's a, uh, good point. Yeah. And then in order. So what are. What are some things that are stopping people from actually becoming good candidates? Like, you might, uh. You must have seen something that is like, okay, this person has no chance. Like, what. What are those things that are stopping people from. From being successful?

Speaker A: Yeah. Two obvious ones that come to mind. One is don't do the open to work banner. Reason is it makes you look like you're a victim, and it's like you're waiting for people to give you handouts and stuff. I have. I have a lot of content around this separately, so I don't need to rail it too much. But, yeah, please don't do the open to work thing. It just makes you look like. It's almost like if you were dating and, uh, and. And you. You've been single for, like, 15 years, and people are like, what's wrong with this? Per. Like, you're not in demand. Right. And so don't do that. It's not going to help you at all. The second thing I see, which cringes me out a lot, is when job seekers are posting in a negative way. Like, I've seen some good posting. Like, hey, I, uh, cold called 13 managers today, talked to one, got an interview. If you're looking for an SDR, I'm your guy. I like that. That's cool. But it's more like the. I've been applying. Uh, I put out 50 apps. No one's gotten back to me. Why is it so hard to break in? I need to do this because my kid is hungry, so. And it's like, all right, hold on. Like, if you don't know what you're doing, then I can have grace for you. But, like, let's figure out what we're doing. So we can stop doing that. Right. So those are the two super obvious ones. And then the third one that 99% of the market is currently doing, and that's why they don't have a job, is they're just putting applications in.

Speaker B: Exactly. Same. I mean, I have not talked about, um, the banner before, but it really, really, really bothers me. And it bothers me even more when I see a post and it has like 3,000 comments and everybody's, like, commenting for reach and helping this person get hired. And here I am, and I actually feel bad a little bit because I'm like, should I be feeling like this? But I am feeling. I'm like, you're not helping yourself. Like, I don't have the confidence that you are actually good, because you are. I mean, I'm sorry that you're in this spot and I really wish you can find something really fast and, like, take care of your kids. But, like, I'm not sure that's a good, uh, way. And so, yeah, that's. That's really relatable.

Speaker A: It signals to me as a manager that you're going to put yourself in a victim mindset, because I understand, like, if you're that desperate, okay, you're on LinkedIn. I get it. Life's falling apart. I understand. But it's also like, what signal, what impression is that giving to your future employer?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And also on the open to work thing, there's a setting you can just ask AI or Google it. You can hide it from the public and you can keep it on for recruiters. And so I actually recommend my clients do that because then recruiters can find them, but at least publicly, they're not looking like they're, you know, desperate for.

Speaker B: I like that. That's a, uh. I didn't know about that one. That's cool. That's cool. All right. And so if I was an sdr, where could I find you? What should I do to apply? Do you accept everybody? Do you have any criteria, like, what. What's going on?

Speaker A: Yeah, we really try to help everyone we can. And so we have a few mechanisms of how we do that. We have a scholarship program within sword, so on and so forth. So if you're trying to get into tech, or if you're trying to make a move and you're already in tech, hit us up. We'll see if we can help you. We're very transparent, we're very honest and blunt with where we think you're at, what help you need. You can go on LinkedIn. I'm there. Jack Knight. Uh, if you're an Instagrammer, you like doom scrolling, you can go to tech sales Jack on Instagram or YouTube and then just reach out. Like, we'll see if we can help you or not. So we'll be very blunt with you.

Speaker B: Awesome. There you go, guys. So if you want to transition into tech sales, reach out to Jack. He's available on LinkedIn and Instagram. And, dude, you're doing amazing things. I really, I'm really glad we had this conversation. I want to, I want to grab you for another couple of minutes if that's okay, after we, we wrap up. But this was, this was a very insightful conversation. It really moved me, especially with, with how deep your faith goes and how beautifully impacts your life. It's just always a pleasure to talk to a person like yourself and obviously it's bearing fruit. So kudos to you, man. Like, really, really, really amazing to hear and see such success and moreover, how many people you've helped. And so hopefully that 200 number that I've been saying for a while grows to like three, four for five hundred, a thousand and, and beyond.

Speaker A: That's the goal, man. Thank you for having me. I, uh, love what you're doing, man. You've helped a lot of people too, and really means a lot that you've given me some of your time today.

Speaker B: Appreciate you, man. All right, take care.