EP 71 | Mastering Evergreen Funnels: Insights from Effortless Launch with Shauna Hollinger

Speaker A: I'm all for diying. I think it's good to. To learn new skills and all of that. But if you want to make sure that it's done right, I, uh, definitely would reach out and have a specialist work with you so that it's done correctly. Because even while you're trying to diy, there might be things that you miss. Even with my first course launch, there were people who reached out to me because they couldn't make a purchase because there was something I missed, there was some kind of issue with my custom domain, and. And so luckily people actually told me about it. But you can end up missing out on sales if your funnel is not done correctly. And also if you're finding that it is taking you all day to do one thing at some point, that's the point where you need to say, let me just hand it over to somebody who already knows how to do this. I've already made the mistakes. I've already asked the questions. I've already done it myself. You don't have to be tech savvy to get your course launched. You can let somebody else handle that for you.

Speaker B: Welcome to Scale youl Course. If designing and delivering a scalable course has got you feeling overworked, overwhelmed, and just plain tapped out, you're not alone. I'm Tracy Sheriff, and in this podcast, you'll listen to a combination of solo episodes and powerhouse interviews where we'll share tips, strategies, and insider insights into how you can successfully design and deliver a scalable course. Prepare to reach your next level business goals without compromising your health and wealth with the Scale youl Course podcast. Welcome Shauna to Scale youl Course. This is going to be an amazing interview. I have wanted to interview you for quite some time, and I'm just so happy that you said yes. Can we just get started with you telling us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Speaker A: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I've always enjoyed chatting with you and I really, uh, I was excited about what you do because that was something that I felt like I needed help with the curriculum design, but. My name is Shauna Hollinger. I'm founder of Effortless Launch, and I help course creators map out their evergreen funnels and implement the tech so everything runs smoothly in the background.

Speaker B: That's amazing. Everybody needs a Shauna. As somebody who helps people with course launches, particularly around the curriculum design as well, I know that there's a lot of moving parts to actually launching a course and having all of the technical aspects working and flowing and it can be really overwhelming for people. It's great to know that there's someone within my network that I can refer someone to who's looking for something a little bit more strategic and potentially wants some support with the technical implementations. Happy to have you here so we can talk all things strategy and the tech parts of the course launch.

Speaker A: Yeah, and it's, it's funny because this is the stuff I nerd out about. Like I love the techie stuff. I find it to be really interesting. Like just in my spare time I'm testing out platforms and testing out things just to see how it works. And I know for some people, they absolutely hate this part of it, but I love it. So if you absolutely hate it, then I'm your person. I'm happy to take that on for you. I specialize in Kajabi and Member Vault in particular, but there's a lot of other platforms that, you know, people use for their online courses, such as email marketing platforms or maybe a third party cart like ThriveCart or something like that. And I also work with those platforms as well. But yes, I love all the tech.

Speaker B: So a lot of people say that about me. They call me a tech nerd and they'll even tap me on the shoulder and just ask me what I know about a particular piece of software. But um, I learned by doing. And so when people ask me how do you know all these things? It's really just because I just enjoy learning about it. I enjoy seeing what things can do and what magic I can create by using some of these tools. When you can make one software talk to another, it's pretty, uh, pretty amazing. So what I do find though is working with my clients. Um, my sweet spot is really the curriculum side of things. And while I enjoy the technical side, there is, I think, something to be said about referring someone on who really needs maybe a different perspective.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So. So it can be a nice synergy be able to have someone to refer clients to, especially if they're not DIYing it. And even if they are, I understand with your business model you also offer strategy and I think that's really important is to have a really good strategy to ground you in because without that you're sometimes just guessing. My experience is you will sometimes do things in the wrong order and then you've got to go back and you've got to fix or do it differently. And so the strategy piece is really important in understanding what it is you're trying to put together. So I'D love to hear from you a little bit. First, let's talk about course platforms. You mentioned that you are an expert in Member Vault and Kajabi, which is awesome, but there's so many platforms to choose from. Do you have any tips for folks around how to know which platform is for you?

Speaker A: Yes. So I highly recommend that you actually map out what it is that you're trying to do. Because when I've worked with people, different clients that I've helped set up their tech and automations for their courses, uh, oftentimes they might have to migrate to a totally different platform because the one that they're using doesn't have the functionality that they need. They might be paying too much for a platform and come to find out they don't really need to pay for all of that. Or there might be lack of automations that, that they would need for their particular course that is not available on, um, whatever course platform that they're using. So I see a lot of people, they'll be in different Facebook groups and they're asking like, hey, what do you guys recommend for XYZ platform? And everyone is saying like, what they recommend? And I've done that too. I love Kajabi. I love Member Vault. So those would be my top two recommendations just based on all of the other ones that I've tried. However, if I don't truly understand how your offer is going to be set up, if I don't truly understand the ins and outs of your business model and all of that, me saying Kajabi is just me saying Kajabi. And that might not be the best fit for you. So for example, when I created my first course, I took a course to learn how to create one. And the platform that they recommended was Kajabi. And so that's the one I went with. I didn't think of anything else. I just went with Kajabi. At that time, it was probably not the best platform for me financially. I was offering lifetime access to the course that I created and I didn't know anything about marketing. I just learned how to create a course. And so all I did was I used the sales page template that was provided. When I finished setting that up and finished uploading all the course material, I shared the link with my audience and then that was it. I didn't have a marketing strategy. Like I didn't know about launching or anything. So I wasn't making consistent revenue with this course. But yet I'm paying like over a hundred dollars a month for this platform. And I'm not even using it to its full capabilities. So at the time, like, I was actually losing money with Kajabi because I wasn't making enough with my course. So had I known about Member Vault, I don't even know if Member Vault was around at that time. But had I known about Member Vault and other options that were cheaper, that probably would have been a better option for me at that particular time. There's just a lot of things to take into consideration when you are thinking about a platform. So I feel asking for recommendations is great. It's a, uh, it's great to know what's out there, but you really, you really can't just go off of those recommendations unless you have tried it yourself, unless you really understand how you want your program to be, your course to be set up. So that's my piece of advice, is map it out first. Get this. Make sure you understand the strategy first so that you understand what you need and understand what platforms are going to be able to offer that for you.

Speaker B: Yeah, I always tell my clients that. That the tech needs to be put on the back burner until from my view, like, as a curriculum designer, we want to know exactly what it is we're creating and what m this, what we. The format of it. And then I think what you're talking about is a next step before choosing a platform is mapping out, you know, what that experience is going to look like when it comes to the delivery side of it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Then choosing the platform, which I think is really smart. A lot of times people will come to me and the first question is, I want to create a course, but I don't know what platform to put it on. And I'm like, we're not even going to talk about platforms. And here's why. Uh, I think you and I have a very similar message. And I think it can also derail people. Like this idea of where am I going to host my course sometimes prevents people from making a decision because there are so many options. And then that sometimes just either prevents them entirely from actually launching a course or even like just taking that next step, whatever that is, because they think they have to have that all figured out. Yeah. Uh, yeah. And I do see those threads, those Facebook threads where people are asking and they get inundated with comments. And then sometimes people are actually ending up in disagreements or arguments about which platform. Like it's a pretty hot topic. Pretty. In almost every Facebook group that I'm in that that is. Has anything to do with online business that where they're offering education based products.

Speaker A: Yeah. And the other thing to keep in mind in I'm not against affiliate links whatsoever. I'm all for it. Um, I have an affiliate link for Kajabi, I have an affiliate link for Member Vault. But a lot of times people are going to push their affiliate links. You want to make sure that the recommendations that you're getting are the best in mind for, for you and not the person recommending it. Just because someone had success on a platform doesn't automatically mean that you're going to have the same success either. So there's just you, you want to make sure that you are having discussions about that in a non biased way and really thinking about what you need and not just going off of all of these recommendations that people are throwing at you because people can spin it any given way.

Speaker B: So yeah, everyone's experience is going to be different as well. I've seen lots of folk that have had said they've had really negative experiences with one platform or one company or another and someone else has nothing but raving reviews. So yeah, um, and there's so many factors that influence whether someone has a good customer experience or not. So it is something getting in the back end and testing things out and aligning yourself or outsourcing some of this strategy to people that know a lot and can really listen to what it is that you're looking for and being able to narrow your choices and having some confidence in that I think is really key. So um, I'm curious when it comes to your strategy sessions that you offer, I know we talked prior to the call, that's one of your first steps is really mapping out that strategy. What are some of the things that you encourage people to be thinking about as part of that process of coming up with that strategy?

Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the things that I recommend is first like leading with simplicity. I think it's really like you were talking about earlier. Sometimes thinking about the tech, it can really prevent you from moving forward and taking action. And I see a lot of times like people will ask questions, can Kajabi do this? Can Member Vault do that? And do you really need that? Do you really need to do this for your course? Do you really need this additional step or can that be eliminated? Are we only focusing on what is necessary for people to access your course, get through it and get the transformation that you're promising? I think sometimes people are trying to do so much and a lot of times one, one little thing that you're thinking about could actually end up being a pretty complicated automation or something later on down the road. And if you are not tech savvy, um, even if I set it up for you, you still have to maintain your funnel afterwards. So it's just, I think leading with simplicity and being okay with keeping it simple is one of the main things that I would say. Like when you come into doing a strategy session, let's focus on keeping it really simple so that it's easy for both you and the people taking your course. And then just thinking about each step, what is, how are you going to get leads? Like where is your traffic going to come from? How are you going to continue to market your offer after the funnel is set up? What does your onboarding process look like? What does the offboarding process look like? Do we have too many payment plans going on? Because for each payment plan there's going to be automations you have to think about if someone defaults on their payment plan, how are you going to remove them? There has to be an automation for that. And I think sometimes people struggle with pricing their offer and then they end up wanting too many, they have too many options and they're not thinking about the automations that need to go along with those things. For me, the strategy sessions are going to be really helpful to just getting your ideas out there and then I can help you decide is this necessary, is it not? And what is going to be the easiest way to get people in and get people out if you have a limited time for your offer for your online course?

Speaker B: Yeah. So much to think about. And even as you're talking, I'm thinking about all the things that are probably missing from my course design school. I think I've ran course design school as a group program. I've also ran it as a self study and there's a lot of things that I know I want to build into the experience of that. Um, I'm just curious, do you have like a minimum requirement or maybe requirements, not the right word, but a minimum number of things that they must have set up. I'll use Memberball as an example. Like you can set up a whole bunch of automations around action. So when certain things are happening inside your course, you can send a celebratory message, you can have an email triggered, you can open up a bonus module. And so there's so many things that you can do. I guess what I'm asking is do you have a set of requirements or things that people must have in order for this to be successful for them? And then at what point do you tell somebody this is way too much like you. You're, you're hitting the limit here in terms of what you want to be able to do and as you pointed out, maintain in the back end. What's the bare minimum requirements for this to be a good experience for a customer or a student in your course? And can you go too far?

Speaker A: Yeah. My rule of thumb is if it feels overwhelming and complicated, it probably is bare minimum. We first have to figure out how you're going to get people to your sales page. Like how are they going to get into your funnel? Is it with a webinar? Is there a lead magnet? If you're doing Evergreen and you're thinking about urgency, are you wanting to offer maybe a limited time discount to, to get people in the door or what does that look like? That might require using Deadline Funnel or Countdown Hero. So I'm always thinking about how are people getting into your. Are people getting into your funnel? So I'm thinking about your lead magnet. So that's some one thing that you will need. I'm thinking about your sales page. I see a lot of people, particularly in the Kajabi group who are asking questions and um, asking for feedback for their sales page. And the design of the sales page matters. The copy that's on the sales page matters. The UX design, making sure that it looks right on desktop and mobile so that people aren't getting confused as to how to make the purchase. All of those things matter. A uh, thank you page. What card are you going to use to accept payment? Your welcome email sequences, all of those things are like the main things just to get started and then while people are in the course you are wanting them to finish it. So there's different things that you can do to help people move along or to just have like positive touch points as they finish modules and lessons and things like that. You can have an email automated go out if you wanted to. Just uh, a check in. You can automate getting feedback after they get done so you have an understanding of what is working and what isn't in a way to remove people after they complete the program. So I see a lot of people offering like 12 month access. So instead of having to like manually calculate how long they're in there, you can automate that so that you're not having to do all of that manually. I'm thinking about those things. Your payment plans, uh, what kind of payment plans you're offering I think are really important. So those are just some of the core things that I feel like need to be solidified. But when it starts getting to the point where you're using like 8 million different platforms, when a lot of the times you don't need that many, a lot of the times you're using platforms, you might not even realize that you can do half the things that you're wanting to do with one instead of having to have five or six different platforms that you have to learn how to use. Um, so if you're not tech savvy, you're gonna have to learn how to use each one of those platforms and you're going to have to keep an eye on them to see is something not working. Do I have to go in and analyze like this platform, that platform, and it can just be too much. So I also want to help you consolidate the amount of platforms that you're using and only focusing on what you need.

Speaker B: I think you make good sense there. Simplicity is best. I see it as almost three phases. Right. You need to have an onboarding plan, you need to have a delivery plan like during the course itself or the program, how it's running. And then you need to have a way to off board people.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, if we were to break it down in its simplest form, I think that's how my brain works anyways. I've gotta have a, a lead magnet and a way to attract people and convert people into my offer. And then I need to be able to make sure they can have a really great experience with the purchase because we know that if the purchase goes poorly there, there can be risks of refund requests. Poor experience can lead to lack of engagement or even not showing up at all. I think there's a lot to be said about that.

Speaker A: Yeah. Or even more like emails coming in, like customer service emails because they can't find what they need. I have to say, I really love your program. Like, it was very simple for me to log in to find what I need. I didn't need to ask any questions. I knew where to go, I knew the next steps. It was very clear. I've been a part of a lot of high ticket programs and low ticket programs more than I would care, uh, to say. But there are some that have just really stuck out to me that were so easy for me to get in there, do what I need. I could find what I need so simply. And then there's others where I'm like, where do I go to submit my questions? Where do I go to submit my work? Am I doing it over here? Am I doing it over there? It just seemed really confusing. And you want to make sure that it's easy because otherwise you might start getting bombarded with a whole bunch of emails and now you're adding more work for yourself. You might be thinking this is the best way to go, but for your students and people going through it, it's actually really confusing.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. I appreciate the compliment there. In full transparency, there are some folks that have had the same experience as you but had a different response to the experience. So while I'd love to take the compliment, and I will take it because coming from you, that's amazing, I do also know that it's hard sometimes to get inside the minds of uh, everyone. And for some that are not super tech savvy or who have never experienced a specific platform before, like Member Vault for example, what feels intuitive to me and intuitive to you as a longtime Member Vault user, can still be overwhelming and complicated to others. I also have had this experience when I've worked in higher education. So colleges, um, that I've worked for have switched platforms and so they always have a very strategic reason for doing that and a very strategic plan to make sure it's rolled out. There's uh, training for staff on how to use the platform and then course builds happen, uh, on those platforms and then students are onboarded in. And what I've learned from that experience is again, there's probably going to be a small percentage, hopefully it's only a small percentage, but a small percentage of students in every cohort that are going to struggle with the technical side. If you move the module list to the left side or the right side or how you order things, sometimes people just really have a hard time navigating around the course platforms. So one of the things that I often tell my clients is try to have a welcome video at the beginning which gives a little bit of a platform tour and a very clear here's where you can get help if you need it. Right from the get go. And back to your point about being inundated with technical emails. In my college classes, when I've got 25 to 30 students, if a link is broken or you know something that is just not as clear to students, you can open up your inbox and have six or seven of the same email over the course of a day or two and you have to respond to everyone so that they get their problem solved. But it can feel heavy because it's not about the course content itself. And so it can really, it can create A lot of barriers for students to get going on content. And it can also be a bit of a technical nightmare if you have too many customer service or student emails.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I, um, do try to be careful. To me, Kajabi feels very easy to use and navigate, and so does Member Vault. But I don't like saying it's easy because that's subjective and someone else could be completely overwhelmed with either one. So I don't ever like saying that. But I do recognize when you could tell. They have put in the effort to make it as easy as possible for people to figure out what they need to do. And one of the things that I really love about Member Vault is that they have a search. So I'm in a program right now and, uh, she has all of her replays in one of the lessons or, uh, one of the products. And she also puts all the different questions that people ask. She's typed that out. So if I have a question, I can go into the search and type it, and then that lesson or that Q and A replay will be there and then I can watch it and I don't have to ask that question because now someone else has asked it. I can find exactly where I need to go in these replay videos to find it. And so little things like that, I feel like are really helpful in particular with Member Vault. But yeah, I, I think that you have, that you've set it up very, very well. I, I didn't have any questions. I was like, okay, I know where to go for this, for that. It was very simple. So awesome.

Speaker B: Uh, uh, well, thank you. I'll keep doing what I'm doing then. And just know that there's going to still probably be the odd person that needs a little bit of extra. And I think if you're somebody who is a person, uh, that often has questions about the technical side of things, don't feel bad because I really do think that there's a certain type of a brain that can easily adapt to the design of a particular website or the. A particular platform. And I, uh, feel for me it's somewhat intuitive. I don't have to work too hard at it. But I have worked with people Both in my 9 to 5 as well as with clients who it is a real struggle. And so I really think it boils down to what our strengths are, like how we perceive things, how we see things, how we engage with this kind of stuff and our confidence level. Right. If you've had a bit of a bumpy start somewhere, it can Rock your world a little bit. I always say to people, just ask me because that's how I learn too. As the, as a creator or the teacher, if a student and us asking a question, if it's a one time thing, it's one thing. But if it is three, four people asking me the same question or asking to be guided to a particular place in the content, that tells me that I need to do a better job communicating where to find whatever it is they're looking for, whatever problem they're looking to solve.

Speaker A: Yeah. And nobody like pops out the womb knowing how to do tech. This is trial and error for everybody. Like I had to learn kajabi. It took me a while to understand it. It's same thing with member Vault. So I never want people to feel bad, um, if they don't understand it. I've, there's so many people that I've talked to and they're just like, I just don't understand it. I've been spending all day on this one thing and I'm like, I'm knowing, I'm like that that really only will take like a minute to do, but it's taking them all day. And I get it. I, I totally understand if you don't, if you don't know and you've never done it before, it makes sense why you might feel overwhelmed. So it's totally fine if you have questions and the questions help me understand like sometimes how uh, you might be an expert at something or something really well and you forget the basics of like the questions that you had at the beginning. So I, I appreciate those questions sometimes. Cause it helps me remember like where people might be at. So. Yeah, never feel bad if, if you're struggling with it. It's, it's totally fine and normal.

Speaker B: Yeah. I'm curious when it comes to time, for the time investment of, of putting something like this together. Let's just talk about it, uh, from a basic level. Like the basics things that you think everybody must have to make this work. What would be the amount of time somebody would have to consider they would need to invest in, in the strategy and implementation of the funnel pieces related to their course?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it just depends. Like for this strategy, if you do a VIP weekend with me, I uh, do it over a span of two days. So we would have the strategy session and then the next day I'm working on mapping everything out and platform suggestions and all that kind of stuff. Now if you are diying something and you're doing it on your own I would give yourself, I would give yourself a few weeks, maybe even longer than that. Because if you're diying, especially if you're not super comfortable with the tech, it might take you a long time because you're probably going to be asking, uh, questions in Facebook groups, googling, trying to find tutorials on YouTube, watching videos for every little thing. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of moving parts that go into this. Hence everything from your custom domains and uploading the content and deciding if you're going to drip the content or make it all accessible all at once or if you have a membership and how that's going to work. Do you want people to have access to all of the content or just only what they have when they initially sign up? There's so many different things that you have to think about. So if you are not tech savvy, I would definitely give yourself a month, maybe two months to navigate it all together. But if you work with a specialist like me, I can help you get it done a lot quicker. You have all of your assets ready to go, your sales page, you have your lead magnet, you already have the copy down, your email copy ready to go. I can set that up in a weekend. I can set up your course evergreen funnel in a weekend. But if you also are adding in a webinar or a deadline funnel or some other things, or you have a, uh, more intricate way that you want your course to go, it might take a little bit longer. So it might take a couple weeks, three weeks. It just depends. But that's what the strategy session is for because then I'll be able to really understand the full scope of what you're trying to do and what needs to be done. And then I can give you a better timeframe. But yeah, if you're diying it, give yourself a lot of leeway because it can, it can take a little bit of time, depending on how much you have to learn.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think you don't know what you don't know. Right. For folks that have never done this before or they're not close to anyone who has, they may not really even understand how many different things they need to consider, what decisions need to be made. I think decision fatigue is real when it comes to this. And then of course, the time to play and figure out how to do certain things. Even this morning I was struggling with Vimeo. I had turned on for someone the download, how to be able to download one of my unlisted videos, uh, so that they could have that. But then I wanted to turn the download off and I probably spent 15 minutes trying to remember, like, where to go. And I consider myself and most people that know me well would agree to be very tech savvy. And I can still get stuck on the smallest things. Especially when platforms will often change their design so they'll move buttons that used to be in one place are now somewhere else. And it's all because they're also trying to improve their product and make it simple. But then that there's the relearning. After you've learned you have to sometimes relearn how to use something. So I think, uh, people do sometimes have a misunderstanding or they're just not aware of how long it's going to take. It looks so easy and pretty. When someone's completed it and you experience it, it's okay. There's four steps to this thing. I need this and this. I got this. But then when you actually start to build it, you're like, wow. And then if you ran into any tech problems on top of that something doesn't work right, then you've got to try to be a detective and figure out where it's broken.

Speaker A: Yeah, and that's the thing. It's. There's testing involved too. I, uh, test everything. I test it multiple times just to make sure that it's working in every way that it's supposed to work. And so you have to not only learn how to do it, but then you also have to understand how to test and make sure that it's working properly before you release it out into the wild. And the other thing is, sometimes you might, you might be watching tutorials, but depending on how old the tutorial is, just like you were saying, a lot of these platforms change, and so there might be new features, There might be something totally different. There was one, uh, lady I was helping and she was like, I'm following this help desk article on Kajabi and I'm just not understanding what's going on. And come to find out it was an outdated help desk article. So the new way that it was supposed to be done, she wasn't understanding it because they didn't mention it in that old article. So now it was like, okay, actually, now things have changed and this is how you would do it now. And there's just a lot of, like, little nuances like that. Even if there is a help desk article that's up to date, there's still nuances with every platform. There's always little quirks. Here and there that I found. So the trial and error aspect is very real for any platform that you're using. So, yeah, I.

Speaker B: A hundred percent agree. Uh, most definitely. Okay, so I'm just wondering where can people learn more about booking a strategy session with you or getting some tech support?

Speaker A: You can also reach out to me via dm. I'm at Effortless launch on Instagram and on Facebook. And yeah, I'm happy to chat with you. You can learn more about what I do@, ah, flslaunch.com or just reach out to me like I said. And I'm happy to chat with you

Speaker B: via dm and you are very responsive because I've reached out to you a few times myself and I, yeah, I stay on it.

Speaker A: I, I look, I check and make sure that everything is good. But yeah, happy to chat with anyone that has any questions.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Thank you so much, Shauna, for being here. I've learned a lot. Uh, I would say definitely been validated in my own experiences of struggle, even as someone who's tech savvy. And a lot of what you said really resonates with me based on conversations I've had with clients who often do want to go the DIY route, but then become extremely overwhelmed. So I think if I was to close with one piece of advice, it would be. It's wise to reach out to an expert or a specialist for this particular piece. If it's not your sweet spot and this is your first time launching something and you really want to just be focused on your content and your client, allow someone else like Shauna to get you going, get that strategy going for you, get even some of that tech done if you choose to. Because while it might be an investment on the front end, it is going to save a lot of time and aggravation and you're more likely going to actually get launched. Because I've seen, unfortunately, some people who don't get launched simply because this is their barrier and they're not ready or open to hiring out. So I, I'm a big fan of outsourcing and so happy that you were here to be able to share that you are somebody we can tap on the shoulder.

Speaker A: Yeah. And just to add on to that, I'm all for diying. I think it's good to, to learn new skills and all of that, but if you want to make sure that it's done right, I definitely would reach out and have a specialist work with you so that it's done correctly. Because even while you're trying to diy, there might be things that you miss. Even with my first course launch, there were people who reached out to me because they couldn't make a purchase because there was something I missed, there was some kind of issue with my custom domain and and so luckily people actually told me about it. But you couldn't end up missing out on sales if your funnel is not done correctly and also if you're finding that it is taking you all day to do one thing at some point. That's the point where you need to say let me just hand it over to somebody who already knows how to do this. I've already made the mistakes. I've already asked the questions. I've already done it myself. You don't have to be tech savvy to get your course launched. You can let somebody else handle that for you.

Speaker B: I think the name of your company Effortless Launch says it all. So yeah. On that note, thank you so much for being here, Shauna.

Speaker A: Thank you Sam.