Change or Die: Building Values‑Driven, Sustainable Sales in Travel with Jeremy Brady

Speaker A: You mentioned something there in your intro which I think is really important.

Speaker B: What's interesting, uh, at least on my, on my side of the business with the outside sales team, we've always been remote. So luckily not too much of a change in terms of team dynamic and how we connect.

Speaker A: Like how many direct reports have you got coming into you? Like how big's the sales org?

Speaker B: I think we have probably 40 sales staff now amongst our team in the outside sales realm. In order for us to achieve what we want to do, we want to make sure that we create an environment where people, when we enter the room, people feel like they can, they've, they can feel they can relax.

Speaker A: What do you see is like most important for salespeople in the travel industry moving forward?

Speaker B: For me in this question, it's, I think there's the advantage of AI alleviating a lot of the nonsense. Busy work, the admin work.

Speaker A: We got some really, really good stuff, uh, there. Give the team two to three weeks lead time for the episode. So yeah, I assume if you're going off to Ecuador is it next week. Welcome back to the sales Transformation Lab. And today joined by another fantastic guest who is Jeremy Brady, who is the sales director at G uh Adventures, one of the world's most well known adventure travel brands. Jeremy, lead sales in the travel industry which as many of us will know is shaped by seasonality, emotional buying decisions and some complex operational realities which makes it a fascinating environment for modern sales leadership. In this episode we unpack what great sales leadership looks like in travel today. Everything from managing performance through peaks and troughs to moving teams beyond transactional selling and into longer term values led customer relationships. So if you're a sales leader listening to this, who is navigating complexity, change or growth, especially in experience driven industries, you're going to get a lot from this one. So on that note, let's jump in. Jeremy, thanks for coming on and welcome uh, to the lab.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, thanks for having me Matt. I'm uh, really excited to be here and wow, a lot of pressure there. Hopefully we could deliver on these, on these listeners here. So I'll be happy to share some, some insights of what I learned over the years and uh, yeah, try to uh, jam out with you here on a few topics. It's going to be a good time.

Speaker A: Really looking forward to it. Jeremy. Um, yeah, as you know, obviously myself and the team, we do a fair bit of research before these but we, we love having leaders like yourself on the show to discuss some stories from the trenches in Terms of what's working. We do quite a bit of work as you know, as a business with the travel industry, Jeremy. And you know, I know it's been a really interesting, uh, two to three years, um, should we say is the kind of rebuild has happened post pandemic. For those listening who aren't as familiar with G Adventures or haven't connected with yourself previously, Jeremy, perhaps you could start just by giving us a quick intro on the business and also your, your journey into commerc.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, G Adventures, uh, we are one of the pioneers of community based tourism. So uh, what we do in, in the travel industry is we run escorted tours. But our emphasis and everything that we put into our business is focused on community tourism and ensuring that the local destinations also benefit and then the travelers get a more immersive experience as a result. Uh, our founder, Bruce Poon Tip, uh, founded this company over 35 years ago. Uh, he was backpacking in Asia and then he uh, realized there was a gap missing in the industry. And at that time the only way to really get to the heart of a destination was really just through backpacking. So we wanted to find another way. And that's where he came back with this concept of G Adventures and uh, started this out of a garage. It was almost like a Steve Jobs story. Two credit cards maxed out and now we are the world's largest adventure travel company in the world. So super exciting as far as how I got involved in this. Um, my start actually began as a travel advisor for Flight center, or we called them travel consultants back then. So uh, I worked for Flight center, the US Version, which was Liberty Travel, ran that for a couple of years, learned that side of the desk. And then I realized that my purpose was to really go on the road and be a road warrior and be that supplier and introduce folks to this new form of travel. Because adventure travel maybe 15 years ago really wasn't that relevant, uh, in the US market. So it started popping off and uh, I found an opportunity that aligned with how I like to travel and the values that were behind it, uh, behind G Adventures. So I joined as a bdm, or we call them Global, Global purpose specialists. And uh, from there my journey just grew along the way. I eventually ended up managing the field sales team back uh, just before, I think 2017 is when I was promoted. So I would go on the road with all of our GPSs and uh, do sales calls with them on the road. So I'm sure there's many uh, field sales managers out There that know that feeling and the long hours, the lots of travel that's required for that. And then we caught ourselves in this position with COVID hitting and unfortunately our industry as a whole got slammed G Adventures. We had to make some tough decisions and uh, reduce a lot of the staff. My uh, my former uh, Director of sales or he was a VP of Sales decided to fall on the sword for me. He furloughed himself and then decided that you know this era was you know my chance to jump up. So he g gave me the opportunity to step in, lead the team and also lead the partnerships at that director level. Right uh, Shortly, right around 2023 is when I was promoted to Director of Sales. And uh, we've been uh, doing double digit growth since on this comeback. But going uh, from the COVID era where I was on the field to now, it's a lot different. The landscape is really, really has changed because um, before there was a lot of brick and mortars that we would, you know, we would go Monday through Thursday scheduling calls with all our scheduling meetings with all of those partners and doing trainings. And now it's a remote world. There's a lot of homeworkers uh, out there. So a lot of independent contractors, ICs that are part of these host agencies. So a lot of the times now we found out actually virtual zoom meetings are, are key. They are, they are very helpful. And then with that it's just ensuring now that we maximize our time at industry wide events. So if there's conferences or, or maybe uh, in the US we have this uh, ASTA American Society of Travel Advisors. We, we have those groups that we work with to try to cover ground with a big group setting in some of the major cities across the US So been lots of challenges too because as we shift into this next era, new uh, Millennial, uh millennials are now starting to take be the bulk of the leadership now that are, that are forming and we have Gen Z's coming into the market and they're a different breed, a different worker than uh, maybe how I was raised uh because I come from like a hustle culture. So I've had to shift my leadership as a result to ensure that we're attracting new talent and keeping retention, you know, having retention with some of these uh, new staff that we bring on with G Adventures. That was a lot I just threw in there. Sorry.

Speaker A: I think already we've got a handful of awesome uh, themes and topics I'd love to unpack. I um, think that you know, just before we jump into that, Jeremy, given the work that we do in the industry, I always find it's, it's a really cool industry. In the. Pretty much everybody that you meet who works in the travel industry is an absolute travel nut. Um, and they're super passionate about it. I mean, what's your favorite destination if you had to pick one?

Speaker B: That's ah, that's a question I get asked a lot. To be, to kind of be frank. It's kind of funny. I'm on the lower end of the well traveled spectrum with our team. We have people at G Adventures that are in the century Club. I'm, I'm only maybe. I mean I don't country count. I think I'm around 50 or 60 maybe over my lifetime. I would say for me it's about people. The people you travel with make those experiences. So for something m that was really special for me that I never thought I would get to do in my lifetime was go to Egypt. I always read about it, saw about it, watched movies over my lifetime about it. And then the opportunity came and that was my very first. Uh, we have these familiarization trips that we're able to do as industry professionals where we learn about the destination and then we can come back and sell it as a, you know, better. And we do that with travel advisors too. We lead these trips. Uh, so Egypt was my very first trip that I got to go on, uh, where I got to experience that. I got to take my wife on it and it was her first massive like trip out of the countries that was, that uh, was a big like aha moment. And um, yeah, I uh, I definitely fell in love. And the funny part is like everyone's. The draw is the pyramids. You can't wait to see the pyramids. But like that's day two of the trip and then you have the whole journey down the Nile and Aswan and Luxor. There was just incredible, incredible temples and just stories that were there. It was probably by far the one that made the biggest impact. And then at G Adventures, Peru is also a rite of passage for us. That's our number one selling destination. So I've been there seven times. I absolutely love Peru too. Wow.

Speaker A: That's awesome. Amazing. Perhaps we could do a future recording at the top of Machu Picchu someday, Jeremy. I think that might be a uh, first. I love it. You mentioned something there in your intro which I think is really important, which is obviously the, the fact that the travel industry has been impacted is maybe a bit more of A traditional brick and mortar, uh, to now the move happening to the more remote and virtual selling. Out of interest, what's the policy been for yourself and your team? How do you handle remote work versus office based? And how are you thinking about getting the team together regularly whilst maintaining that more distributed? Uh, yeah.

Speaker B: So what's interesting, uh, at least on my, on my side of the business, with the outside sales team, we've always been remote. So luckily not too much of a change in terms of team dynamic and how we connect. The funny thing though I laugh about it, was we were doing Zoom before Zoom was cool because we wanted to see each other on person, like as a group. And I think, you know, you had Skype. We, I think we originally used Skype back in the day, but like that group setting with a ton of people on it. I think when Zoom first came out, that's where we're like, we want to have a team meeting. And now it's like during COVID we switched like no, we just want to have team calls. So we don't want to have Zoom meetings anymore. But um, in terms of frequency, it's just more so, um, you know, we have our weekly huddle as a team, just as you would as a normal sales team. Sales team. So like on Mondays we kind of go through, you know, our normal agenda points and seeing how we're doing, what's, how we're pacing for the month, what are we focusing on for the weeks as far as my, my reps and, and connecting. We generally try to meet up at least uh, two times a year. So we're, we're getting ready to actually uh, head out on a destination, uh, for a sales meeting. Um, and actually I think this recording comes out after we announce it, so this is perfect. So they don't know yet, but they're going to find out that uh, we are actually going to be going to Ecuador for a, uh, for a sales meeting and bringing our, our marketing team too. So a group of us will be meeting down there later in July. So I'm really excited for that. That should be a good little meeting and inspire us. And something special about it too is um, Ecuador is where G Adventure started. So it's sort of like that, uh, we want to, we want to bring it back to where it all began. Um, and uh, we're gonna go to a lodge of, you know, one of Bruce, Bruce, our founder, Bruce Poon Tip, uh, our founder, partnered with this guy Delphine in uh, in the Amazon. And uh, he was his very first like, business partner. So we're gonna go to his village and kind, uh, of do a little ritual while we're out there. So something cool, really fun.

Speaker A: Uh, that's amazing. I tell you what, Jeremy, 15 minutes in, you're doing a great job of, uh, uh, of selling the talent on the opportunity. That's awesome. Um, I don't think there's many sales organizations that can claim to have taken the team to Ecuador, so that's awesome. That being said, we. Obviously you touched upon the point there of, you know, team turnover, uh, in the travel industry is a concern. And, you know, I speak with travel, with sales leaders in the travel industry regularly, and they talk about this particularly at the kind of junior, more junior level, shall we say. What are some things that. That you're thinking about when it comes to, you know, managing burnout, uh, managing turnover and keeping the team energized, particularly given, you know, the seasonality of the industry.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's, uh, it was a tough learning for me, actually. Um, because I, you know, I'm a good example of, um, you know, I stayed on through Covid, but I think in that moment in Covid, I had my moment of burnout where I realized, okay, like, I can't keep driving the way I. I have been. Um, and I realized, you know, you know, I come from a hustle culture, like I mentioned. And, um, it's just one of those. That's just how I was raised. So, like, the mentality was like, I, I will outwork anyone. Obviously, you know, that's. Every salesperson says that I'll outwork anyone, but that's truly, like, how I, you know, I positioned it. It's like, we're gonna get. We're gonna get the job done. We're gonna accomplish everything we need to. But I didn't put as much focus on just listening to my body or listening to, you know, the needs and also revisiting, like, what makes our team, you know, what makes the individual tick on the team. Ensuring that we're. We're continuing to find fulfillment and happiness. And that's generally the core areas that I focus now on every meeting and that. And just to kind of go off script a little bit too, I. I recently just. We have these moments at G Adventures, uh, where we want to just. If we could restart again, we used to call them a zombie apocalypse. If we had to restart the business again, what would we do? So I kind of had my burn it to the ground moment, actually, uh, a few, six weeks ago where I was like, I need to figure out a better way to have one on ones with my team to balance out the partnerships that we, you know, the meetings with partnerships, the needs of the business. And now because I felt like one on ones are just becoming weekly check ins where you're just doing the same thing and it's uninspiring to me. I, I uh, personally I don't like having meetings because it just gets in the way of accomplishing things that we want to do. So now I've created a cadence with our team where it's more about their growth and development. We meet once a month, usually I give them an hour now to kind of go over like where they are. But uh, what I also focus on is like what's making you, what's the, you know what? I asked them questions like what's making you happiest in your role right now? What are you doing right now that, that you look forward to every day? And then that's where I try to find, you know, can we keep delivering on that? Or maybe there's some projects or something we can, we can add to their plate to make them excited, make them feel they're contributing. Because we, we have this philosophy of, we call it, you know, community ship. And we're trying to do these ideas where we feel like everyone has a voice, everyone has this shared sense of responsibility and we want to make sure that everyone feels like they're contributing to something far greater than themselves. So with this new, with this new junior or we say novices coming into the business, they're, they're, you know, they're motivated by feeling like they're part of something. They want to have meaning and purpose. And we talk about something that really wasn't talked about in the industry 15 years ago. Yeah, not really. I know G Adventure started it and a, uh, lot of people are like, okay, who are these hokey Canadian, what's this hokey Canadian company like all about? They're talking about purpose and all that. But now we're seeing a lot more in the workplace of people focusing on ensuring that there's values in place and that we focus on a values driven company. So they, you know, I'm trying to think where else I can go with that. I know kind of riffing off, off the cuff.

Speaker A: What's really interesting about that Jeremy, is I would say, you know, so often we see that the one to one process with leaders is exactly as you say, the one to ones end up becoming purely about kind of check ins and discussion of, you know, Pipeline and deal reviews. And what's been interesting is that in. In M. Well a couple of things. In our own benchmarking data we've seen that um, 67% of managers feel like they are delivering regular coaching to their team, but only 37% of team members, the sellers feel like they're being coached. So there's some real disconnect going on there where actually you know, there's kind of weekly deal reviews and check ins. I think too often we're overlooking the actual individual. We're not coaching the talent, we're just coaching towards the deal. And what I love about the approach that you've done there is you've basically observed that in your own process and you've gone enough. Let's focus on the really important piece of the one to one that's going to support performance and, and ultimately staff turnover as well. I love that.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's a need. Well and the other piece to what I did as well with this because I know there's a need. You got to go through pipeline, you have to go through all that. However, uh, what I've done now is I've implemented, I've told my team like I have. I schedule an hour and a half in my day that's dedicated to you during those times that we're not having one on ones and that's office hours. That's, that's where we talk about a specific thing or I need approval for this. I need approval for that because that's what those calls were turning into. And I'm like, there's no development here. It's just I need approval for this. What, what happened here, blah, blah, blah. And like that just, that just didn't work for me. And it wasn't inspiring. And if I recognize it's not inspiring, I know it's not inspiring for them either. And generally they catch it before you do as the leader. Right. So that's, that's the shift that we've done and now we've been rolling that out, rolling this out here for the last six weeks and it's been really uh, refres because now people feel like they're doing meaningful stuff and the conversations are very meaningful. Um, and uh, as part of our community ship model at G Adventures, I've also tried to integrate questions that evolve that revolve around opportunities where it's like you had an opportunity to do something or achieve a task or do something with a partner who could you have reached out to on the team that maybe could have benefited or helped you as a result. So now I'm asking those types of questions. So that way the team feels like everyone's committed, committed and connected together with this shared sense of responsibility. So now they're feeling a little bit vulnerable and knowing that yes there are some things that I probably could have done better and actually if I would have brought in so and so that might have helped me too. And now it's going to start steering those conversations for them to reach out to team members and work together on this collaborative effort.

Speaker A: I love it. Uh, it's really refreshing to hear and I guess for the listeners tuning into this Jeremy who are thinking about ideas, 20, 26 of things that they can do with their own teams. I mean give us a sense of like how many direct reports have you got coming into you? Like how big's the sales org?

Speaker B: Yeah, so uh, right now I cover the USA and Latin America so there's about three or four of me's across G within uh, our respective regions. So I think we have probably 40 sales staff now amongst our team in the outside sales realm. Right now I have seven people. So I actually recently promoted someone to national accounts to help alleviate some of the duties there for me. And uh, I have six uh, GPS's or global purpose specialists or we call BD or the BDMs to those that are outside of G. So I um, think for me personally that's the right number to have six people. And I've done a lot of reading and research and I'm sure there's a lot of stuff out there, stats out there that show like if you're going to give that right amount of time to people, like yeah, that six is kind of the number. But what's funny, before COVID I had 10 right out the gate as a, as a novice like national sales manager I had 10 people I had to jump right in, go on the field with. So like I said I was always on the road which eventually yeah, that leads to burnout. The sustainability of that isn't very window for that isn't long. And now I'm older and I know I can't go back to doing that again.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. No, and again like on, on that data point we've uh, we've, we've done a lot of research on that and uh, yeah you, you kind of nailed it in terms of the uh, the number of direct reports. So we actually find that um. Yeah that the kind of maximum is, is 8 ah, point 6. So once you cross anything above kind of 8 direct reports, then your performance, overall team performance starts to quite drastically drop off. So yeah, your, your real world experience backs up what the data suggesting team size. The other point that I love about the emphasis you've made in your one to one approach is the refocusing on the individual's development and career progression. The number one reason we see for higher performers leaving roles is that they don't feel like they were developing in the role, so they left to find growth elsewhere. And to your point, around the kind of Gen Z generational piece, I think it's something that we're seeing more strongly amongst junior team members that are coming in. They're looking for much more than just a paycheck out of their career and they really do value the personal development side very, very strongly. I mean, does that back up what you're seeing in your organization?

Speaker B: Absolutely. What we've done too is just kind of, I've shifted um, a huge focus that G Adventures, you know, that we have is in our hiring practice too. To ensure that we're hiring the right folks to begin with is we go all the way back to, let's um, say there's, you know, there's always going to be the steps of a interview process where folks will do the hire. We do hire views for the initial section and that's where people showcase their sales background, some of their greatest successes, blah, blah, blah, you know, the normal, the normal spiel. And then if they, if they say that if they have the right language in there, they have the right, you know, that's where they can show their resume essentially, if they have the right package right there, I schedule a meeting with those candidates and then from there those candidates are expecting to have an interview with me where it's a breakdown of the role, but we focus more on core values. So before the interview, I send them a list of core value. It's a core values exercise. It's like a list of a hundred. I let them, you know, we let them pick five, they can combine them together and then what we do is have them define each one themselves. Because I like this aspect because now we get an understanding of what it means to them and have them describe it. And as a salesperson, uh, hearing them describe how passionate they are, you find out what makes them passionate about that core value. And then we try to align it with our core values. And what I also tried to really flush out in the very beginning too is I want to create that, you know, not to be cheesy, but I want to create that Safe environment for everyone to feel like they, they can, they can speak their mind, they can feel like they're part of something. And uh, the narrative now that I say is, you know, you are the value add to the company, not the other way around. We want to make sure that we are a right fit for you and that alleviates a lot of that stress from the interview. And they end up opening up and showcasing what their, what their core values. And then from there I just, I take each core value they talk about and I ask questions that are business related that kind of maybe center around that core value. Can you speak of a time that you, you know, maybe that's where your core value shines and like an example of that. So I can see where they come from. Um, and then that allows them to feel that they can be open and vulnerable. And it, it's um, it's been a fun, refreshing way to interview versus the traditional, you know, going through all the strengths, weaknesses and uh, where do you see yourself in five years and, and all that stuff. Now that is important because I also throw in there, there's core values listed now, but core values change over time. And I say, is there something on that list that you maybe wanted to put on there that isn't quite there yet and maybe that's where we can help you chase that version of yourself. And then that gives them the opportunity to grow and know that I'm really intentional about being a part of their development, uh, through their journey at G Adventures.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. That's um, I think there's some really good best practices in there in terms of what's working well for you. I mean out of interest, have you, what are you seeing from a skills perspective in terms of what, what skills are uh, uh, have you observed are more important today than they perhaps were previously skills?

Speaker B: For me it's going to be those soft skills. I know that's very basic, but people are more intentional. We want to know that we can help when we enter. Actually let me reframe that. In order for us to achieve what we want to do, we want to make sure that we create an environment where people, when we enter the room, people feel like they can, they, they can feel they can relax and then that they can be open. And uh, what's, what's funny is every event that we go to a G Adventure staff, people see us, they see how happy and excited we are, that we draw that energy and that aura out to others that, that touch our brand. And uh, that's that's, that's, that's what I want, I'm looking for in the future hires is I want to ensure that they're able to feel that connected, that they're able to transcend that beyond our group. So, um, that's, that comes with soft skills and that comes with focusing on, on doing things that are meaningful. Not necessarily traditional, traditional sales calls. It's paying attention to, you know, what's important to that person you're speaking to or connecting with and they're going to remember you for how you made them felt. Not necessarily the, oh, G Adventures sells the greatest tour, blah, blah, blah. Like, no, they're going to remember that, that interaction, even the littlest thing that you may do, you might have just something, uh, fell over, you might have picked it up for them and then you might have shared a heartwarming story with them. Those are the little things that matter more. The specific like sales tactics and all that. That stuff can be taught. Like, I don't care about that. And that's. You can we flush that out in the interview process? Anyway? That's, that's, those are table stakes. If you don't have that, then yeah, this is a sales role, then you're not, you're not a fit. But what we try to avoid is having those sleazy car salesmen on our team. You know, the, the traditional always be closing abc, that type of nonsense. We're getting rid of that because that, that's not, that's that continual, uh, business as, as we grow and those relationships are very important. So, uh, bringing people into relationships and connecting and creating this sense of community is really the core of, you know, what we focus on, um, at G Adventures. So I know I danced around there quite a bit with that, but.

Speaker A: No, it makes sense.

Speaker B: It's a tough question. I'll give it. It's a tough question.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, I think it's, it's true for a lot of organizations we work with. I, I came up a call with a, with a revenue leader earlier today and I asked him the same question in terms of, you know, what, what he's observing is separating higher performers from the rest from a skills perspective. And it is, you know, he had a bunch of metrics. He could talk me through the difference in, in activity and, and conversion. But when you're thinking actually about like, what actually are those, those skills and behaviors that are separating high performance and consistency, it's, it's much harder. Right. Yeah.

Speaker B: And now, now I'm actually to kind of Continue on that. Just briefly. I think the, the biggest, the biggest challenge is for leaders is to let, to let go and let their team run, let them fall, let them fail forward. We want to create the environment where they can try new things, but know that we have their back when they try new things because that's going to create that sense of, of excitement and that's also going to create, you know, new innovation, New innovative things. Innovation dies and we become complacent or complacent. So it's like that's, that's what we're against. And uh, funny, our founder is, he's very keen on that too. He has the simple phrase for us. He says, change or die. Do you want to be the next blockbuster or do you want to be relevant? So he's very open to us pushing the boundaries and trying new things. And I always, as part of, even when I'm onboarding people, I ask like, I ask questions like, what's your biggest failure? And find out where they're coming from. Did they come from an environment that allowed them to take a risk? Because a lot of times people do the, what is it? The fabricated, uh, interview, uh, style, like how I solved the problem. I was great, blah. And um, that's great that they can do that. But I want to know something that really was like, you almost lost your job, fail, like that type of thing. Because then I'll at least know the corporate background that they're coming from and then know, okay, this is where we're going to have to work on their confidence. Like that could be a piece that they're, they're going to be a little bit light on. So it's all about ensuring we create that environment for those top performers to really just shine to what their strengths are and make sure that we're there to jump in to help get them back on path when they fall. Because they will, you will fall down a hundred times. And we want them to know that they're still safe and that they're still going to be able to do great things.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean we definitely see that a lot in the travel industry. Right. In terms of the cyclical nature of the industry. And also, you know, looking historically there's, there's a number of former high performers who perhaps you just go through a bit of a rough year and, and maybe their, you know, energy levels aren't what they were because they had that big year and they really pushed it. And then there's kind of this like 12 month period of like, you Said like, trying to get them to pick themselves up and go again. I guess that's where, you know, the work you're doing around values could really come in to help get them back.

Speaker B: And that's what ha. You know, and that's what I, you know, that's sort of what I was seeing was happening, was the, Especially in the one on ones. I mean, that's as much as. I don't like meetings, they are important. And I got to the narrative where even I was getting frustrated with. I'm just here to do a freaking check in. Um, I'm not. It's like, this is not, this is not, this is not aligning with, you know, what we're all about. And we want to ensure that we're, we're. That, you know, our employees are feeling like they're, they're getting fulfillment and they're still happy and with what they're doing. And if they're not, let's recognize what are the things that are not making them happy. And yes, there are certain things in a job that you have to do, but now we're going to work on ways to help manage that and mitigate that for them or in most cases. And this is, this is crazy to say. Sometimes people hit the point where, this is it. This is. I think I've served my purpose, my time here, and that's okay. And we want to bring that encouragement because that's better for them and also for the business. We don't want to keep someone on just because we feel bad. We want to make sure that they're going to feel happy and fulfilled. So I even tell my team, like, if there's opportunities, if you don't feel like this is for you anymore, let's work on, like, what we can do to help you outside of G. Because that's the best decision you can make for yourself.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, totally. I, I, you know, had a, I think it was another episode recording on, on the, on the pod where a leader actually said, you know, performance management and, you know, helping, uh, people transition out is seen as, you know, a very difficult thing and can be seen as kind of very brutal. But he, he put it to me, he said, it's actually, it's actually a kind thing because if the role is no longer right for that individual, then it's unfair on that individual to be trying to kill themselves, to try and make it work. So oftentimes, like, the kindest thing you can do is create an offering and try and help them find something better.

Speaker B: Well, and it's, uh, you know, you have this, this period where folks, it starts turning into, uh. I like this reference. I'm going to use a milk run where they're just kind of going through the motions. They're just, they're not, you can tell, like the drive is not there anymore. And you could always have as many discussions to say, hey, what's going on? Like, I noticed that you're just not what, what's happening. But yeah, it's that, that's you. That's where you can do a core values exercise with them and then realize, hey, the work we're doing is not aligning with what you're. You really want to focus on. So we've had to recently do that, unfortunately for a few folks. And yeah, it's, it was hard, very hard, very hard conversations I've had, people that I grew up in the business with that I had to do that with. And it's awful. But it's awful in the moment because, you know, you're always thinking in your head like all those scenarios and you're like, I feel awful about it. The reality is it was the best move for them, uh, in where they are in their life right now. And, and as a result, you know, they are going to be happier doing something else. There's going to be a sting moment for a little bit where they're going to be a little hurt, but then they will know that it was the right move for them in the long, in the run.

Speaker A: Totally.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's spot on. And you mentioned something just before that. Jeremy around. I think the quote from your founder was, ah, change or die on those lines. Right?

Speaker B: Very.

Speaker A: But it's attention grabbing if nothing else. Um, we're recording this in Q1 of 2026. It's unavoidable, um, to not talk about, you know, the impacts of AI. We're obviously hearing and seeing firsthand a lot of disruption happening in a number of industries, travel included. I mean, as you reflect on where we are today, where we're headed, what are some of the kind of key changes in the sales role within the travel industry that you see coming? And just kind of one extra caveat on that question. Maybe you already answered this with your kind of soft skills response, but what do you see is like, most important for salespeople in the travel industry moving forward?

Speaker B: Yeah, um, for me in this question, it's, I think there's the advantage of AI alleviating a lot of the nonsense. Busy work, the admin work so that's great. There's always going to be that human touch that we need to have and where we, where I see this coming now, but this is also, this is, this is me toeing the line here with. Oh, we're freeing up more time. So now hustle, hustle, hustle. Like, I get, get trapped in wanting to go back down that rap. It's like, oh, I just alleviated four hours of my time that I spent doing this admin work. So now I can go back, I can fill it up with other more, you know, crazy. Like, let's go, go, go. I want to create the, uh, for the future of our team is to have more time to, you know, think and also more time to plan and be strategic. So then that way it balances, you know, it has that balance where they're not burnt out. There are going to be times to deliver. And I always say some days you go all in, some days you, you know, you bag it. Um, not a popular belief amongst, uh, hearing this from a salesperson, but I don't believe someone can go 110 every day. I freaking hate that phrase. I think it's ridiculous. Uh, I'm all about that sustained growth and I want that sustained excellence to continue. So for me, it's like, yes, you may have to work late in outside sales. It's a crazy job. For those that aren't familiar with an outside sales role, they're out on the road, they schedule meetings with partners from like, you know, coffee runs at 7, 8 in the morning, all the way up to 5. And then when they check in their hotel, they're getting ready to take someone out to dinner that evening and then they're out till, you know, nine or ten sometimes having cocktails with partners and, and really building relationships. Then they start over and do it again the next day. So my thing is like, yes, you're going to go hard, maybe a few days, but then, yeah, you're 70%. Want you to feel confident that your 70% outperforms anyone's 100%. And then that way when you're ready to deliver 100%, you're, you're able to really shine and do some, I like to say, epic shit. Um, AI is going to help alleviate that admin work, but it allows us more free time to kind of really be strategic and build upon, give us some momentum and also a refresh on the direction we're going or if we need to, it allows, uh, us to slow down and I think that's important. We don't slow down in this world. We try to keep going, going, going. So this is allowing us an opportunity to be really more thoughtful and meaningful with how we spend that extra time now. And that's what I'm looking for. And I'm going to create, I want to create the environment for my team and others that, you know, come across us to, to, to do that because you could still do incredible stuff and also, you know, not kill yourself doing it.

Speaker A: Love that. So what I'm hearing is the opportunity to embrace more sustainable speed by leveraging AI to automate the repetitive manual tasks that we've been doing for so many years now.

Speaker B: It also, what's important I want to say this too because I'm sure there's going to be companies out there or you know, directors that are in the similar role. Like, well, I report to a board or like I have a board, they want numbers, they want boom, boom, boom. That's where you have to make that decision. Like, is this company culture the direct. Is this the right fit for you? Because not a lot of, there's companies that, you know, like G Adventures that, that, that provide that space. But I understand there's a ton of corporate companies out there that don't believe it's like, no, you have to hit your numbers. So we freed up all this time for you with this, with this, with automating all this. I need you out there doing more. And yes, that's, that's a reality you're in. You have to meet people where they're at and also companies where they're at. So that's where as a leader you're, you might have to make some tough decisions on whether this is the direction you still want to go or if you need to find a company that, that uh, embodies that. Because I know it's an, it's kind of a new thing for a lot of companies.

Speaker A: And you know, you know, I think the one word we keep hearing a lot of, and you know, we've heard it in the travel industry as well, is ultimately what I think a lot of the sale comes down to is still risk. Right? So if the buyer is still concerned about risk in the deal of, you know, and booking a, booking a trip, it's high risk, right? You want to make sure that you're uh, you're making the right decisions. So having to your point, that trusted human on the other side who can do that high impact consultative sales approach is going to help build that trust that overcomes the risk in the purchase Is that, is that fair?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. No, that's good. That's great. Well, then from our layer, it's like on the outside sales team, we're working with those travel advisors out there and those travel counselors and trying to, you know, we're, we're a layer removed from the business or from the sale. So that's the challenge too, is trying to empower them to feel like they could do. They could still be valuable to that, to that customer and trusting that they're using us as their supplier to book their customer. So that's a, that's a fun little, little layer there. That's, uh, that's hard, right?

Speaker A: Because so you've got the direct sale, but then you've also got the indirect sale through, through third parties as well. Um, it's a, it's a fascinating industry and a fascinating time to be building. Um, Jeremy, it's been an amazing conversation. I think we've covered a fair bit of ground there. You know, we've talked everything about, um, negotiating that kind of seasonality in your business, managing turnover, thinking m about that one to one and coaching approach as a way to empower and develop the team without losing good talent. We talked about developing the talent as well. I think you shared some really great practical advice today. Um, and then we've looked ahead at, uh, where we're headed next in sales in the travel industry. Thanks so much for coming on the show. It's been a great chat and, uh, I'm assuming if anyone's listening to this, who would like to connect and follow up with more questions or even just peer to peer brainstorming, LinkedIn's a good place for them to do that.

Speaker B: Yeah, LinkedIn. And then, uh, for my travel advisor community out there too, I'm on Facebook as well, so.

Speaker A: Awesome. Jeremy, thanks so much for coming into the lab and look, uh, forward to doing it again sometime.