HOW THIS LEADER FOCUSES ON WHAT WORKS VS. JUST ACTIVITY

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. Or welcome back. Hey. This is the show where we interview the very best of sales leaders and understand first, why did they get into leadership? What's the distinction there between the motives of getting into sales leadership and what differences have they found and what is working today to get the very most out of their team and have it be fun along the way. Before we get in, make sure you check us out over@b2b revenue.com where you can learn about all the stuff that we're covering as far as driving revenue in today's world. And at the very end, I'll sum it up. Let's get into the interview. Hey, Katie, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself. Sure. So I've been in sales for 10 plus years. I've sold everything from diamonds to cattle feed to chemicals. So it's run the gamut, both direct sale and sale through channel partners. Now I work in the chemical industry, but my field of expertise originally based on education was more in the animal health, livestock realm. So my current role gives me an opportunity to do a little bit of animal health, little bit of chemical. So it's been a good fit. And was sales a natural progression or was it kind of what was open at the time or. So it was a natural progression, I think based on just my personality and my general problem solving nature. But coming out of college, I graduated at a time where the economy was somewhat limiting as far as being able to do things in my field of choice. And it was sales was something I had dabbled in during college working in the jewelry industry. And so it was something that was open and available. And that was really my first true sales role as a professional was coming out of college and what you like about it. I liked being able to interact with people and help them find creative solutions. There's that high or that boost you get from making a sale and having that personal payoff. But I think there's also an additional payoff you get when you help a customer solve a need really effectively. I love that about sales. Cool. And who do you sell to today? So we sell mainly in the industrial market. So it goes to food processing customers, large food processing customers, and then also to live production in poultry and swine. So farms glamour. Yeah. Yep. So you went from, was it retail jewelry? It was, yeah. To livestock. Now who's the buyer in your market? So that's what's interesting. We sell all through distribution, but much of our industry goes on sole Provider agreements. So the channel partner is often selected by the end user themselves. They have agreements with existing providers and a lot of times you're selling on multiple levels. So your messaging has to be directed towards the distributor and the end user. The end user has to be able to request your product, know about it, understand it, and your distributor has to be able to support that in our industry. And how does the end user become aware of you? So we do some of our own marketing, but I will say honestly, the most effective method for us has just been our successes in industry. Having a really dynamic team that's out there and creating referral business for themselves personally and also for our products as a solution to some of the problems that are most commonly occurring. And have you moved up into leadership? I have. I started as just a, you know, a rep in the field. We were a small company at the time, so I was one of only two people covering the U.S. and Canada. We were very, very small and have expanded pretty significantly since then. And so now I manage a team of roughly 10 employees directly and indirectly. And how did you like that transition? I'll be honest, it was really hard at first. I loved being out with our customers, solving problems, being in the field and then also giving up long term accounts and transitioning that over to people I then manage is a really tough, can be a really tough transition. I like managing people and planning, playing a role in their success and helping them solve problems. And that's where I'm getting some of the same payoff but in a very different way. And is it hard to recruit people in this space? Because it sounds like it's pretty specialized. It is. And if you had to really hone in on kind of the secret sauce that maybe our company has, it's not just our products, it's absolutely our people. And, and so having the right people out there representing our brand has been extremely important. And it's a pretty specialized product line. And so having people that truly understand the industry and understand our customers and what's going to impact their KPIs, what's really going to make an impact for them, what's going to be something they care about, it's very difficult to recruit. We have a lengthy interview process because. Because it's vitally important to our image as a brand to have the right people. So what do you look for? It's a mixture. We do look for successful salespeople, but we're also looking for industry expertise and also the aptitude to be somebody who really immerses Themselves in the industry. Somebody who's willing to learn, who's naturally curious, who you know, is very invested in food safety or animal health. It's something that they personally care about. We look for those things as well. Not just sales success. That must be a hard match then. It can be extremely difficult to find somebody who can be highly technical, curious, entrepreneurial, but also a very successful salesperson who understands relationships. It's a unique blend biz. I would think that that market kind of attracts loners. No, it does to an extent. I mean my entire team is remote. And it is a very unique type of person who can be very successful independently but also has the ability to work in a team setting for problem solving. We're a research and development company, so even new product development is very much a collaborative, a collaborative process. So having somebody that can really work extremely well independently and in groups, work with your distributor, work internally, It's a unique person. And it must be hard getting your clients time. They're probably pretty busy people. Oh yes, very much so. I mean, at the food processing plant level, for example, you'll find that a lot of your decision makers, they may or may not even have an office because they spend most of their time out on the processing floor managing their teams. And even when you do get a sit down with them, all of them have a radio that they're constantly getting calls on for, you know, to put out all different fires all over the facility. So, so getting an uninterrupted conversation, it just doesn't happen. They're extremely busy. They're very, very much involved in their day to day metrics and making sure that they're on track. Because at the end of the day we're talking about creating food product that people are going to consume. I mean it's a very high liability market to be operating within. They can't afford to make a mistake. So very, very busy people getting their time, getting any level of undivided attention, very challenging. And what do they care about? Is it so? Yeah, I mean they, they care mostly about producing safe food and the, the right amount of it per their metrics. If you're talking about the decision makers at the plant level on the animal health side, a lot of it is driven by the animal's growth and health within a given time period. You want to certainly limit any risk of disease, any death, loss, and you have to have your birds or your pigs at the appropriate weight and ready to go to the processing plant within a time frame that helps your business be profitable. So I would say all of their KPIs are very time dependent and a lot of them center around quality and safety. How long did it take you to adjust into that leadership role? I think to really do it well and fully embrace it, probably a year. Probably really a solid year. And you came highly recommended. Why do you think your team did that? I think it took time, but building a respect level with people that came into our company very accomplished in their own right. We talked about it being a very unique type of candidate. The people that come to Sterilex and join our team are very, very successful professionals that are high achievers. And so I think it was important to earn their respect through showing them that I understood their day to day. I wasn't just somebody coming in who was giving them metrics and saying, okay, now just go do it. You know, I had, I had done their job. I understood the challenges. I could actually troubleshoot them through some of that. And I think the number one thing as a good leader is listening to them. You can't just focus on output and only be speaking to your employees about what, what they're putting out to you. And I think putting yourselves in their shoes, listening to their day to day, showing that you have an understanding and you can help them through it, building that level of respect. I think that's why they recommended it. They've seen that I was successful in their role and that's how I got to the point that I am. But also I can help them be successful. And how is it working through a channel? Is it 100% through the channel? It is, yeah. Sometimes it's wonderful and sometimes it's very challenging. It's almost like having two customer groups because your channel has their own metrics, KPIs goals and their goals in a given year might not match up with yours as a supplier. And then your end user, it's completely separate messaging. They have different things that they care about. And certainly your channel partner cares about satisfying the end user. I mean, you have that in common that you're both trying to deliver, but they have to do it at a given margin. They have all of the logistics associated with getting the product there and doing it in a way that works for them. And so there are times where your goals conflict with that of your channel partners and you have to troubleshoot your way through that. Certainly I had come from only doing direct sales coming into this. I really hadn't done much with distributors and I was used to having a level of control and insight and intelligence at the end user that as a step back you don't have that necessarily. And it can be more difficult to make good decisions. Also, when you handle the sale yourselves, you know, you can do a good job or you can drive the type of employees that are going to do a good job. I wouldn't say it's common. Our channel partners really are also a fantastic group. But you always have those times that, you know, maybe something does slip through the cracks and you don't have that level of control to step in and make it happen. And you have to find creative solutions for that. And I'm sure your channel partners carry your competitors as well, right? Or do they? All of them do. And so there's that challenge of how do I position myself where it's a clear choice, how do I make my product the most attractive out there? How do I get my end users to ask for us by brand name? How do we make that compelling case versus our competition? And you have to rely on your channel partners to be to know the differentiating factors and hopefully choose your product over a competitor. And it sounds like you've hired experienced people versus entry level. Very much so, yeah. Yeah. And how did you attract them? So we have two arms of our sales team and the one arm is really focused on troubleshooting technical support and sales. And they're very, very focused on our distribution partners specifically. And for them, many of them we took directly either out of production agriculture or directly out of the food processing facility. And so, you know, when you are going to be selling to QA managers, why not hire a QA manager who has high sales aptitude? They understand the things that are going to make a difference. You know, we talked about that high paced environment in the plant and getting it being very, very difficult to get time with your decision makers. That's the environment that they're coming from. And so it is very challenging. It's very long hours, very, very stressful. There was a work life balance. There can be a work life balance trade off coming from that high paced environment in the plant and being on 247 to moving into a sales world where you have a little bit more control over your schedule. That has been a helpful way to attract new people. Certainly it's just the difference in environment that always seems to work as long as that person has a sales aptitude like you characterize. Certainly because selling is very different than quality assurance. You are 100% correct. And I wouldn't say that method of recruitment always works. You certainly find people there's not, not everybody out there can be a good salesperson. It's not something that you just pick up and figure it out. There are some inherent qualities that I think make people a really good salesperson. And, and you can try to identify those characteristics or qualities and then foster them, but that's not foolproof. The other arm of our team is really, really experienced business developers that come from all different companies that supply food processing or animal health and they offer something different. And so it's more those business development experiences. And we're also utilizing with a highly technical team and then also that team that has the business development experience. We use the two teams to cross train quite a bit, which does help. But yeah, it's not something that always works well just to pull someone from the plant. And plus had you hired before? Because that's a skill too. Yeah. So through, oddly enough, through a couple nonprofits that I had been a part of, I had done a lot of interviewing and also through some of my experience with other organizations, I had participated in interviewing for more like volunteer type roles. But coming into my current company, I had participated in interviews, but I had never been the decision maker and had that weight of if I hired this person, I'm responsible for them. And so that was definitely a challenge. And I think there was a calibration and a learning time period, especially up front, which involved making a couple hires that didn't work out. And that does happen. So from that, because those are the real lessons you remember, right? Because it took a lot of time, a lot of effort, and you didn't get the reward. Yes. So how do you characterize that? Sales acumen versus the domain experience. So when we're looking at sales acumen, we're looking for people that have operated in the market and have been successful, that have a track record of selling in either an adjacent market or in the one that we're targeting. And that's something that's uniquely different. When we're looking for our highly technical staff, we're focusing more on the technical abilities, but also looking at is this somebody who is number one personable, likable, interacts well in the environment, Is this somebody that can adjust communication style in multiple different environments? We run a two month training time period with multiple check ins where we observe the person in all different environments. We have them shadow existing employees and when we have hired the wrong person, we often catch it in that, usually the first month. Because as you get the person in different environments, you can tell whether they have that adaptability or aptitude to be successful. And you can catch it pretty quickly when they don't. And during that interview, let's say that they make it to you. I'm sure they might talk to somebody else first. What are you looking for? So I'm looking for somebody who is energetic, who keeps me engaged in the conversation. I've had interviews where you think to yourself afterwards, wow, I could have talked to that person for probably another 30 or 40 minutes because I enjoyed it so much. Generally those are people that when you can hold that conversation, it tells you that they do have that aptitude to likely do that with a customer as well. And I'm certainly looking for those basic things from a resume perspective showing that they've had a track record of success. I look for somebody who is genuine, approachable and who is teachable because the chances of you checking all 10 boxes out of 10 you're looking for it just, it never happens. You're going to have to teach them something. So somebody who can be open and honest in the interview and say this is what I'm really good at and here's where I want to grow and I'm excited to be in a place that can help me do that. That's attractive to me because they're recognizing what their areas of growth are as well and they're showing that they can be teachable. Is there a particular question you use or things you look for in the resume? Particular background or types of jobs? Yeah, so I'm generally looking, like I said, at somebody who's at least operated in an adjacent market, if not the same market. And especially when I'm trying to gauge someone's self analysis and their awareness of what they might need to work on. A common question I might ask is what would hold you back from being successful in this role? A lot of times they'll identify for you what their gaps are and then you can evaluate that as part of the interview. Another really enlightening question that actually the president of our company taught me was what's a common misconception about you? I'll often ask people that because it helps you kind of gauge their self awareness of. I come across this way and that's not positive, so I need to work on it. That can be a very enlightening question as well. I think you get far more out of the interview than you get out of the resume, especially for sales, being face to face with somebody, interacting with them, going to lunch with them and seeing them in a different setting than a boardroom. You get so Much more from that than you do a resume. I mean, I've seen wonderful resumes. And then I get in front of the person and it's no way I'm not gonna hire this person. Not a fit, you know, And I've had the reverse. So it's true, because the interview. Some people can be really great interviewers. Yeah. And not so good salespeople. True. That's very true. And have you ever been surprised in your hire where you thought the person was like a seven and they turned out to be a nine? I have, actually. I've definitely had people where it's been. I think they're going to be a steady performer, but they're probably not going to blow me out of the water. And then got that person into the field, and they really wowed me. And so it kind of makes you rethink what you're measuring in the interview process when somebody does that. But I have had that happen, and it's a wonderful surprise to have much better than the opposite. Certainly. Certainly is. And of the salespeople that you've experienced, what differentiates like that top 1%? I think it's probably a couple different things. It's not one single item, but I think probably if I had to choose a top item, it's their level of engagement or involvement. It's their willingness to really understand, immerse, dig in. I don't know how else to say it, but you'll see that certain salespeople are kind of just checking the boxes. I need 10 activities this week. So there's my 10, or I need to make a certain number of phone calls or. And then there's others that really go above and beyond because they know. They know what it takes to really be able to dig in and understand an account and do that upfront investment in understanding what's going to get you to be the most successful there. I think the other item is prioritization. There are people that really understand I'm going to make the investment here because of all of these reasons. And then there's other people that are kind of just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks and as far as what comes through for a sale, and they're not doing it in an intentional or planned way. And so I would say definitely those that are taking the time to immerse, understand, give themselves the best chance at success. And then also those that understand how to prioritize and plan to really get the best results. Yeah, I like both of those. You know, that judgment is easier As a leader to help. It's like, you know, out of these 20 things, let's talk about what order they are and why. Because I think today a lot of people just like activity, which is part of it. You got to do something. Sure. And then that middle part, which I like that research, how do you do it? And then people focus either on the activity or, or the outcome. But that middle part is what? You have control over the outcome. You have influence over it. You don't have control over it. Yep, absolutely. And how well you do it, that's the part people don't really want to focus on because that's the hard part. It is the hard part. It's easy to go for, for the easy parts. But yeah, it's the investment that's the most important, that middle part. Yeah, the people say, I'll have 20 visits or whatever, and they think that that's hard. But are you getting that middle part that gets that outcome? I think too many people give the outcome to luck or chance, but don't do that research. Part of really that immersion. Why is that customer going to care before they go in? Right. I think a lot of people do it afterwards. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And have you been able to find out that secret sauce in that middle of why they should care, why they should change, why they should give you attention? I mean, I think there's a couple different things that we've employed that have helped us be more successful in that we do have a sales process training that we do with the team that certainly focuses on really understanding customer need. But we also have an opportunity ranking tool that doesn't just look at the value of the opportunity because certainly you have those people that, that's the easy go to. I'm going to go for the million dollar opportunity no matter what my actual chances are. Yeah, I mean, like, do you actually have a right to win there? Like, what are your chances of getting that? And so do you want to spend time on a million dollar opportunity that you have a 2% chance of getting? Or, you know, you have to weigh it out? I think also it's, it's something intentional. With leadership, giving our team the time, tools and ability to do research, it is easy to fall into the trap of saying, well, they should be on the phone 247 and pounding the pavement, and that's what they need to do. That's what successful salespeople need to do. But giving them the freedom and the time and understanding that, you know, that they're going to need time to be doing research. And I think the research stuff is critical, really. Understanding what's driving decisions at your customer and doing the research calls, talking to people within the organization, talking to people around the organization that have had different experiences, and then building your approach from there. You have to give your sales team time to do that. Right. Rarely do I hear a leader talk about that part. It's important. Critical. Yeah. You know, especially, I mean, you're not the biggest player in the space and you're not going to win every deal. True. So which ones are most likely and how can you win them? And most leaders just get comfortable with count the calls, count the visits, count the conversations, where's the forecast, have three times your pipeline. But that doesn't do anything. It doesn't. And it's. I mean, not that I'm accusing anyone of this, but you can pencil whip things like that and make it look great and it's not actually correlated to outcomes or dollars. And then you'll look at people that maybe have low call counts, but they have three pages of notes on the calls that they do have because they were so valuable and so in depth. Quality makes a huge difference when you're talking about activity. And the activity kind of squeezes that middle piece out. It does. It does. Yeah. You don't have. If you don't give your team the freedom to do the research and make the calls that are going to help them inform their decisions and build their strategy. If you don't give them the time to do that, they're not going to do. Can be an uncomfortable thing for a salesperson sometimes because they feel driven to show return. So getting them to slow down and do those pieces sometimes can be uncomfortable up front because that's not how they're used to being managed. But it's really, really critical for success. And that I see far more correlated to outcomes than total number of phone calls per month. Right. People aren't buying just because you show up. No, no. It's the quality of what you show up with. 100%. Yep. Great. Hey, this has been a great conversation. Where can people go to connect and follow you? Www. Sterileex.com is a great resource. There's multiple different pages there where our products, our contact information is. Hey, what a great guest. I really enjoy talking with other sales leaders, understanding their motives, their differentiators. And I think you get a lot out of hearing how other people are solving these particular problems. If you or your team is looking to up your game, check out our training courses over at b2b revenue.com the letter B, the numeral 2, the letter B and then the word revenue.com isn't that a beautiful word? Revenue? Also, if you'd like to support the show, please put a rating, a review or even better, tell another sales leader or even your team to check us out. Either this podcast or we got several others. We got the Brutal Truth About Sales and Selling which is interview based about the very best reps in the world and what is working today. Sales questions, brutally honest answers, a daily Q and A type show talking about the questions that people are asking today and the answers that I have for them. 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