How a Mutiny Transformed My Leadership With Geoffrey Toffetti

Speaker A: Coming up on this combo episode of Seven Quotes with and Running Restaurants podcast, I get into life and leadership lessons with Joffrey Tafetti of Frontline Performance Group. Joff is wonderful in this episode, sharing so much about his journey and the tidbits and the lessons learned along the way. I promise you, you're going to get a lot from this episode. Stay tuned. Hey, folks, uh, Jamie here. Quick link to send you out to go to runningrestaurants.com and click on Online Store. And new products there include a digital marketing 201 strategy guide, our comprehensive playbook with 64 SOPs for your restaurant, local SEO tips, exit planning strategies and more. That's@runningrestaurants.com then click on Online Store. All right, welcome everyone to seven Quotes with a podcast that is all about life and leadership and everything in between. Each episode explores seven handpicked quotes, uh, that have shaped the guests lives, fueled their motivation and guided their leadership. I'm your host, Jamie Oiko, and joining me today is Joffrey Tofetti, CEO of Frontline Performance Group. Uh, uh, because Joffrey's in the hospitality space, we'll also run this as a combination episode with our running restaurants.com listeners as well, because I'm sure we're going to touch on hospitality along the way. So before we start with your quotes, do me a favor, give a brief, uh, introduction about you and Frontline. What do you got?

Speaker B: Yeah, so my name is Jeffrey Tafetti. As you mentioned, I've been with frontline going on 16 years. Uh, we're a company that has always exclusively supported Frontline teams in the production of revenue and the delivery of great service. Uh, we call our methodology Service based sales. So we've done a lot of work in all of the travel sectors, including car rental, theme parks, reservation centers. Uh, but in the last decade, we've really focused, focused in on hotel front desk, uh, and more recently restaurants and bars within hotels. Um, so we live pretty exclusively now in the hotel universe. Um, personally, I'm married, been married going on 25 years in August. Have, um, two kids, 21 and 17, both thriving in their own way. Uh, and I'm really happy to be here with you.

Speaker A: Excellent. You know, I just, I thank you for that. I pulled up your site beforehand and I'm looking at the map. You guys seem to operate everywhere. Is that, is that accurate?

Speaker B: Yeah, we have clients in 124 countries.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, and we operate in about 40 languages.

Speaker A: That's a challenge. All right, so, all right, so yeah, you guys have been doing it for a long time all over the world, so good. You're going to bring a lot of expertise, um, both in the leadership and the growth of a business that is so large and so expansive. Uh, so I want to. I'm going to poke you for those lessons, but let's go right to quote number one. I'll have you read them, because some folks are just listening while, you know, we're on screen, but some folks may just listen. Some of them are a little bit longer than what you're going to see on the screen. So I'll let you get through it all.

Speaker B: Go ahead. Sure. So the first quote is, uh, from Colin Powell. Loyalty means giving me your honest opinion, whether you think I'll like it or not. Disagreement at this stage stimulates me, but once a decision is made, the debate ends from that point on. Loyalty means executing the decision as if it were your own.

Speaker A: Yeah, I can see him saying that. Right. And so I'm sure you've dealt with this and your business. What does it, what does it mean to you? This one?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, this goes to leadership teams a lot. Um, when you're, when you're having strategy sessions, you're trying to solve problems, you're debating heavily, um, sometimes some don't agree, and at some point, the leader, whoever that is, gets to make the decision. And once that decision's made, being loyal to the team means that even if you weren't in that camp in the beginning, once your leader makes that decision, you execute it. And if you can't execute it, then maybe leave the team. Uh, because at some point, a decision has to be made in order for any organization to move forward. So I've always held onto this as sort of a core tenant of, of the, the loyalty and cohesion of a leadership team. You can have very contentious debate when figuring out a problem, but once a decision's made, you. You all have to march. You can't leave the room and go do your own thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, there's a. Um. Sorry, I was just trying to think who it was, but I remembered right at the last second there's a great book by, uh, somewhere back there, Ray Dalio. Uh, if you've heard that he talks about this exact idea, like, argue like crazy about stuff. But. Yeah, but then when it's, when it's go time, uh, get, get, get the team on board. So question, uh, for you. You know, you're obviously been. Been leadership position for a while, but when you were young, did you See yourself as a CEO. The path surprised you? What do you think?

Speaker B: Yeah, no, when I, when I was, I didn't have my first real job, I say, you know, that kind of kicked off my career till I was in my mid-20s. Um, so no, I was, I was a freewheeling, free spirit type. Uh, I did not see myself in a corporate role at all. Um, but, you know, once I got a taste for it, my first management job, I was 26. I got promoted to night audit manager at a hotel. And once I got a taste and it didn't go well, I didn't do well. In my first management job. I actually had a full on mutiny, uh, occur in my department because of me. It was my fault. But once I got a sense of how thrilling and fulfilling it can be to lead others, then I was hooked. And, and I never really looked back. And from that point on, I think, I don't think I thought I would be a CEO, uh, but I thought that I would definitely be, you know, rise the ranks of leadership at some point.

Speaker A: It's funny because I was gonna, I wrote down a question that was similar, but you kind of answered it. I was like, was there a moment in your career where you thought I might actually be good at this? I mean, but did something stick in your head? Uh, beyond. Beyond that, yeah.

Speaker B: After the mutiny occurred, um, and I, I figured out what I was doing wrong, I, and then I turned that team completely around and we became very cohesive and highly productive. And I got promoted two more times after that. Um, so it was at that moment when I realized what leadership really is. Leadership is, is, is guiding the people you're leading into a future reality, whatever that is, it's not pushing them into it, it's not telling them what to do. And once I kind of got that clicked in my head, I embraced it fully. And that's how I've tried to lead. I mean, obviously we all make bonehead decisions sometimes, but I've tried to be in the front, not in the back. Um, and I try not to ask people to do things that I wouldn't be willing to do myself. And that has been sort of my guardrail from a leadership standpoint. And it served me well. I mean, I don't, I've had very few people in my entire career quit, um, when they've been on my team because we're, we build something together, we're on a mission together, and they know that I'm in the trenches with them. Uh, and that all started back then with that first job.

Speaker A: Yeah, listen, it's such a big difference. I wrote it down here, said not telling. Like, people don't want to be told what to do. Like, yeah, that guiding is such a. It's so. It sounds little, it sounds small, but it's a gigantic difference when you're working with people. And I. If you go back a little bit, you've obviously started. Sounds like you started on the front line. There was. There was. Was there a humbling job you had in the beginning? Did you start?

Speaker B: Uh, oh, yeah. Uh, I've done everything from, you know, laying carpet. I was at a carpet apprentice. I was in the military for a very short time. Um, you know, I've had. I've had day jobs. I did day labor for a while because I couldn't find a job. You know, when I was young, I would just do anything that would give me a paycheck. Um, and then when I discovered the hotel, I kind of felt like, all right, this is the culmination of everything I've learned when I was working as a valet or a bellman. You really develop a comfort interacting with people, new people, because you have these micro relationships. People check in, you've got them for like two minutes, you know, um, so you get really good at that. And it turns out that is a. That is a skill that really does translate into the rest of your career, whether it be walking into a conference for the first time, or you have to get up in front of people and talk. It all kind of starts with that on stage. Uh, reality. But, yeah, I've had a lot of dirty jobs. The worst thing I ever did was clean an industrial sized grease catch, which. Yeah, where I had to get inside the catch, like, it was just the size of a. Like a tractor trailer. Uh, and I had to scrape the walls and stuff. Uh, that was a. And I was in a hazmat suit in the summer in Florida. So, uh, that was the worst. The worst I've ever had.

Speaker A: Every combination of things you would not recommend doing if you didn't. If you didn't have to. What about last thing and then we'll go to the next one is that, you know, you could say something to young Jeffrey that you could you go back in time and all that, or send a message. What do you think you tell that dude?

Speaker B: Uh, I think I would tell him to work harder. When you're younger. Um, start at like, 18, which is what I tell my sons. If you can grind from 28, from 18 to 28, you can have a Phenomenal successful career. Um, I started a little late. I started. I didn't really take it seriously till I was 25, 26. Um, if I had had seven years earlier, just like your 401k, the dividend of that work earlier would have paid off immensely. Now, um, so that would be the big thing. I think I learned a lot of good lessons. I stayed flexible. I did a lot of different things. But that would have been the big one, is start earlier.

Speaker A: Yeah. That compounding effect, you can't fight it. It's ah, it's ah. It's powerful. All right, let's go to quote 2. I got it up on the screen.

Speaker B: Sure. Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. The moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. And that's by wh, uh, Murray. It's often attributed to Goethe, but it's actually Wh. Murray that said that.

Speaker A: Yeah. What. What's, uh, that one mean to you?

Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, I believe firmly in goal setting. Uh, it's part of our corporate ethos. It's what we teach our clients. It's what our tools do, is help you set goals. Once you set a goal, then you're actually on the path to achieve it. Whether the goal is ever achieved or not, you're progressing. Um, if you don't set a goal, you're kind of just moving, going through the motions with no direction. So it's like a guidepost in the future that you're moving toward is what goals give. It brings order to your effort.

Speaker A: Yeah, just. I just write down my, uh, oops. Bring you out here. Writing, uh, down my thoughts on goals. Yeah. You know, you read stuff that says once you write something down, once it's a plan, it really gains steam in your brain, in your life. But until you do that, right, Until. Until. Until you make those commitments, you may not get there. And so what have you found when you're running meetings that's effective? What have you found with your team to keep them on path? What do you think?

Speaker B: You got to have, uh, what I call aspirational but achievable goals. So you have to have goals that are in the short term. I mean, you can have pick your poison, you can have okrs, you can have whatever, but you got to have short term goals that people are working toward that are productivity focused. But you also have to have mission goals. So what is the overarching objective of what you're trying to do as a team? And that way the Teams like if you think about it as far as like, you know, in, in a, in a physical form, you have teams that are lined up horizontally and they're all moving forward. Well, if they're not moving toward a point on the horizon, they could end up in completely different places. So having that longer term goal that is like a flag on the horizon keeps everyone oriented toward the uh, the mission objective, whether it be a corporate objective or a revenue objective or a product objective. If you don't have a goal out there for them to look at, then it's hard to have a common lang. So when you talk about in meetings, when you know what your objective is, you root all of your discussions against that objective and it keeps everyone speaking the same language and kind of focused on the same things.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, I want to go to kind of the crossover between where you guys are, hospitality and tech. Um, what do you think hospitality has taught you that the tech world maybe needed more of or didn't do as well?

Speaker B: Well, hospitality is a people business and I think tech tends to feel kind of cold. Uh, and I, one of the unique things about Frontline Performance Group I think is because we went from a services based business focused in hospitality to a tech based business, folks, hospitality. We have a very people forward tech perspective. We want technology to enhance human capability, not replace it. And we also understand because we've been in the change management business for so long teaching people how to do things that we, we know how to help the client adopt a new technology and, and bring it into the, the workflow of their daily lives. And why, why do you bring technology in is to accomplish something. So I think hospitality, you know, has, has taught us and continues to teach us that it's focus on the people and you're going to get the outcome you want and the technology should be there to enable that perfect segue.

Speaker A: Because I was going to ask you at some point today about AI, data and AI and this is the question that's on everybody's mind right now. It's in every conversation, every headline. But what's going on? And it's replacing people and you know, should it and what's it, what's it's good for? And in your space there's some interesting utilizations and there's some potential good use cases. But we don't want to take hospitality away. So how are you guys thinking about uh, artificial intelligence?

Speaker B: Yeah, we're, I'm really excited about it. Our whole company is moving uh, rapidly toward adoption. So for us it's the first time in history, really, that data can go from being a complex thing like a report, to an actual opinion or a bit of input. Right. So now we can take AI, we can interrogate complex data, and then we can present it back to people in a way they can actually execute on it. Rather than trying to make them data analysts, they can just respond to the AI. And so we're using AI to inform and enhance human performance by giving them real world coaching. So like as an example, as a real example, let's say you're in a restaurant, uh, and you're a manager, and you're trying to understand how each person is performing. And there's tools out there that'll tell you how they're performing, but you want to understand why Mary and Jack are both doing well, but not as well as they could. And so that the AI can go in there and interrogate all of their checks and figure out exactly what they're good at and what they're not good at, and then personalize a development plan for each that says, okay, Jack, you're doing well, but your drink replenishment rate is too low. And Mary, you're doing well, but you never modify or add on to the entree. So we're going to provide you training or coaching through the digital platform to address those two things. And they're very different. You know, training historically is you train everyone on everything and you hope it sticks. Now it's at a point where why would I train you on something you're innately or intrinsically good at? Let me spend the training time on things you're not good at or you're not doing. And that's a new reality that has never been something that has really been possible before.

Speaker A: This aspect of, of, uh, interrogating the check, I, we kind of covered that. This came up in a webinar we did this week, um, reviewing, reviewing the check with them. That is incredibly powerful, by the way. Like, you know, and yeah, you could as a manager sit down with Sally at the end of her shift and look at it, but that's very tedious. Whereas in the background, the computer can crunch us and say, this is what you're not doing well and you could have more revenue. That's a big one. That's a big deal.

Speaker B: It is a big deal. And the biggest technical challenge wasn't actually asking the AI to analyze the data. It was normalizing the data that comes out of a point of sale system, which can be very messy. You can have products where the name is not clear. It doesn't line up with anything. It's not intuitive. You can have um, duplicate products with different names. So we had to build a taxonomy first that we're using AI that will normalize all that. So then you can actually automate in real time this check analysis. And you can take 200 checks and the AI in a matter of seconds can figure out exactly what someone is good at and what they're not. What products are they avoiding, like what never shows up on their checks. There's even people we find where they're, they're discouraging people from buying certain things like. Oh yeah, those kind of things that just. If you're a manager, you'd never find that pattern. It's just buried too deep.

Speaker A: Yeah, we uh, it does come up on some of our, our content and so forth. And I give, I, I say it almost every time because it continues to be the truth. I'm at a restaurant and I just get very mediocre service. I don't get suggestions. I don't get upsells. I don't get timely replenishment on my beer. If you miss that window where I'm willing to have another one which is $6, 6, $8, $5 worth of profit to you, if you miss that window, it's gone and it's gone forever. Um, and you know, and, and that, that happens time and time again. And so restaurants and whether they're freestanding or at hotels are missing opportunities all the time. And so the tech is going to help you with that and then to be trained around the stuff that you need reminders of, whether it's product knowledge or uh, or upselling or suggestive or scripts or you know, closing little marketing things. Other stuff that in your case, other stuff the hotel does, you may not know. We have happy hour this hour and we have this event next weekend. Like so many opportunities that you can train your staff. So does that, that ring about you guys must be doing that all day long?

Speaker B: Oh, that's exactly, that's exactly right. The, the, the ability to get personal with someone where you can give them very specific drink replenishment. We actually, in our roadmap, we're building out an entire KPI framework around drink replenishment because we're finding it's 50 to 20% impact to top line revenue in the average restaurant m particularly in the dinner shift. It is massive. And you're exactly right. If you take too long to get their first drink and you're too slow to get their replenishment you miss the third drink. That third drink is like 15% of the check in a lot of cases. So there's, uh. But that's very hard to spot on an individualized basis to know. This particular person is only replenishing 1.4, you know, drinks per person on average, and this person's doing 2.3. And the difference between that is like, 20% of their check value.

Speaker A: That.

Speaker B: But once you tell them, then the manager's like, okay, now what do I do about it? And our system actually provides the. What it. Here's a video they should watch. Here's, you know, stuff they should be doing. Here's coaching directly to the server. Um, so, yeah, but all of that has not been available before.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, so. So. So yeah, there's definitely some. Some cons about where the tech is heading, but stuff like that is great. Use case. All right, let's. Let's keep kicking ahead. Quote number three. I'm gonna pop it up there.

Speaker B: Yes. So the tyrant dies and his rule is over. The martyr dies and his rule begins. That's Kierkegaard that said that that's a little bit of a. A faith based in a way. But I. The way that I look at it is that bad leader that's pushing people, um, when. When they leave, people tend to celebrate. But when you have a really good leader that is selfless and leads from the front, um, that will permeate all those people they led, and they will carry that forward. Um, and I think that when. When you take out the word rule and you think influence, um, if you said the tyrant dies and his influence is over, the martyr dies and his influence begins. That's really how I interpret it. Um, and. And I think it's true. You can. You can pass on that great leadership by being a selfless leader.

Speaker A: Question, then kind of, this probably is a good segue. Was a mentor for you, a role model for you in your early stages where you kind of feel like you've embodied their lessons or they set you on the right path.

Speaker B: You know, I hate to say it, but I think for me, it was largely the opposite. I had some really, really bad leaders that made me feel bad a lot of the time. Even though I was a high achiever, it would make me feel inadequate, or they were constantly, you know, making me feel bad, even though I was. I thought I was doing pretty good work. So I took a lot of those lessons and. And built almost like a do not do list. I did have, uh. I did have one mentor that was, um, sort of like a father figure because I grew up without a father. He died when I was a little, little kid. He was kind of like a father figure in that he was tough. He wasn't like, soft and fuzzy, but he was. He. He had my best interest in mind, and he was very hard on me. Um, and that worked well for me. I needed that kind of kick in the, you know, in my early 30s really, to get serious serious. Um, and the founder of fpg who brought me in, um, and trusted me to run the company for him, um, he has a business sense that I haven't seen before. Uh, he's a deal maker. Uh, and he's. He's been very influential in, in the last 15 years on, you know, the entrepreneurship thing because he started this company when he was in his early 20s. And, um, and so, yeah, I've had two very positive. But I probably had six that were negative. But I mean, in. In my case, I think it might have worked out better for me because I, I can empathize with people that are under a bad leader.

Speaker A: It is tough. We've all. We've all had the, uh, yeah, the bad boss, the bad leader, the bad coach, and it's no fun. But, yeah, you do learn lessons from that as well. What would you say, you know, a part of leadership for you as you've grown? Something that's become easier with experience and maybe you're better at now than you maybe were back then.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, this is going to sound a little weird, but I think anyone who leads people will get this is, um. I've gotten better at not allowing how I feel about someone to influence how I lead them. Um, so I tell my senior leaders, you don't have to like your team. You don't have to feel like you want to go on vacation with them, but you can never show any kind of. Of bias. Like, that's gotten a lot easier because now I view people on their intrinsic value. Uh, and, you know, I value all human life, obviously, but it's gotten easier to not get wrapped up in personality types or in political opinions or any of that, as long as they're contributing to the team and to the mission. And we actually refer to our, our company as a TR because we think it's more like family than, than a team. So if, if they're contributing to the tribe, then I don't care about any of that other stuff. And that. But that was harder when I was younger. You know, you get. You're emotional, I guess, or you, you get wrapped up in some things and he starts to paint people in a certain way that I find to be much easier now than it was then.

Speaker A: Yeah, good one, good one. That was a good, good intro right there. All right, let's go to quote quote number four, if you would.

Speaker B: Yes. So power that is gifted without transformation becomes Poison by Alan Watts. Um, so this is one where I, I'm a firm believer that, that good leaders have to go through what I call the crucible of their career. If there's not a phase in your career where you're getting beat down and you're grinding it out and you're struggling to, to, to accomplish what you're supposed to accomplish, then you don't kind of earn the right to lead. And I've seen people that are given leadership roles that haven't really paid the price and they're not, they're just not effective leaders because they haven't been in that sort of adversity that carves out your character as a leader. Um, so that quote to me is basically, if you give people leadership and they have not been through the crucible, they're going to probably make big mistakes that could affect your culture. Um, and they're not gonna, and you're not serving them well because they're not gonna succeed. And when they fail, that failure could, could impact the rest of their career.

Speaker A: We were, we were just overseas, uh, in, in Europe, England and France and specifically in France. It reminds me of the stories of the, the, the, the emperors getting stuff getting passed down to you. Right? Your, your dad was a king and he was the boss and all of a sudden you're, you are. And he did the hard stuff, but it was just gifted to you. And what happens rarely does that go well. Right. The revolt against them, head chopped off, you know, it just, it doesn't work out because they, you, you didn't have to go through the hard part. And uh, and, and I think people do see that your followers, uh, see that. And when you're trying to lead without having done, done the hard work, it really, it really does show and it does make a difference. What would you say, uh, personal wise, you know, what values do you think show up the most in, in your leadership?

Speaker B: I think trust is the, is the biggest one. People hear me talk about it ad nauseam. I'm, I came to this, I think I came to this conclusion in original thought, but I don't know. But I think that leaders must give trust first and freely.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Um, because when and this is a common trope in, in leadership that you have to earn my trust or you have to earn my respect. And I've had plenty of bosses that felt that way. Uh, and what I came to realize is that when you say that, when you say you have to earn my trust, what you're saying is you don't have my trust. Uh, and if I don't trust you, if I'm your leader and I don't trust you, you're going to be defensive and you're going to try and protect yourself because you're going to feel scrutinized or threatened. The only way to build a real meaningful relationship early on is to just give trust to say, I trust you, we hired you, we interviewed you, you've joined our company. I trust you completely. Now it's yours to lose. You could do things that will undermine that trust. But I'm going to start you off with a full trust bucket. Your bucket is full. Um, and I think that that has been a critical part of my ethos, uh, ever since I was really, you know, call it middle management and above. Um, because I realized it's the only way to get people to trust you is to trust them first.

Speaker A: Yeah, I do appreciate that. There's a great, great quote in Dale Carnegie's book that references this situation about, you know, assuming you don't know anything else about the situation, assume good intention is really what it's saying. Right. Most people, if given the opportunity, want to do the right thing, want to behave. Right. Yeah, you're going to get fooled and tricked and burned. But most people, if given the opportunity, will, will, will do the right thing. So appreciate, uh, that, uh, let's go, let's keep, let's keep jamming ahead. Um, quote number five.

Speaker B: He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how. That's Nietzsche. Uh, again, I think it's, you know, this kind of goes back to the Simon Sinek book. You know, start with why is, is if you have a reason to be on a mission that you're on and that mission gets really hard, you can persevere it because you have, you have this guiding issue or uh, guiding principle that you're trying to follow. And that goes back to the goal setting thing. Is if you said, if we set a goal for our tribe to achieve something, that's going to be hard and it's going to take maybe multiple years. Um, when it gets tough, you can, you can stay the course because you have that why that you're, that you're moving toward. But if you're, if you're in an organization that doesn't have a why and we, we, you know, used to consult for hundreds of companies. We would go into these environments where they have no why, they're just punching the clock every day. Um, then when things get tough, people bail because they, they don't know why they're enduring the pain or the, or the long hours or working a holiday or whatever it is you're asking them to do. So that's where that, that quote, I think resonates with me is, is if you've given your people a why, they can endure almost any hardship question that

Speaker A: is somewhat related because the hows and the whys can be kind of tough to come by and they have to be explained. But it's, some of it comes down to habits like how do you build it, uh, into your infrastructure, what, anything you think habit wise that can improve the guest experience at a restaurant, at a hotel, something that's kind of, you can build into the system to help out.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, they're one of the, we have something we call the core, which are the three things that everyone should do every day when you go to work. It doesn't require special skills, it doesn't require special education. You know, one is a positive attitude. You have to cultivate a positive attitude. And, and you hear, you know, when you go on stage in hospitality, that I think is, what they're talking about is you have to drop whatever you're doing and, and come in with a positive attitude. You have to have a very positive presentation style. So again, it doesn't matter if you have an accent or you know, you, maybe you don't speak perfect English, whatever. It doesn't matter as long as you're projecting positivity in your presentation style and you're being professional. Um, and the third is product knowledge. Know, know your product, whatever it is doesn't have to be hospitality related. Anything that you're interacting with, any job you're representing, you got to know your, your business. If you do those three things, you're gonna have success because people mirror other people. So when they walk in the room and you're positive and you're smiling, it's very hard for someone to, to be negative when someone is smiling at them. Believe it or not, it's hard for the brain to overcome the smile. Um, so it's just those three things we, we believe those are core and fundamental to everything. Um, and it permeates all of the training materials that we provide people is just be positive, have a nice presentation, and know your stuff, and you're going to have success in hospitality and everywhere.

Speaker A: It's true. It's true. I wasn't going to ask you this. It wasn't part of my notes. But when you were talking there, it made me think about finding those people, hiring those people, you know, retaining people that embody those personalities. And the market has gone wonky, and sometimes there's too many people to hire, and sometimes there's not. But what have you seen hotels and operators and restaurants do well to attract and hire good people?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that historically, they've always been screening for service. They've always been screening for people that want to serve. Um, and I think they've always done a pretty good job. Where I think they have gotten better and can continue to improve is to look for people who want to influence other people. Because sales, and from our standpoint, sales is not something you do to someone. It's something you do. You do for them. You're educating them, you're letting them know what's available that would enhance their experience. So you have to have kind of outgoing people. And so you. You want to look for people who like to serve, and you want to look for people that are outgoing. I think hospitality does a pretty good job. I think since COVID it's been tough because the training grounds that historically fed into hospitality, that kind of pattern got broken. So there wasn't this. This wave of people that are constantly being groomed up through hospitality. They kind of had to start over. Um, and I think that created some challenges. But, um, but I. I think they're still hiring nice, kind people. They just have to look for a little bit more assertiveness. Um, it really. To achieve all their goals. But. But I think hospitality probably has the best collection of nice people of any industry. You know, everywhere you go, there seems to be filled with nice people.

Speaker A: Yeah. Important piece. All right, let's go to quote number six, Jeff, if you would.

Speaker B: Sure. As far as you can get into the habit of asking yourself in relation to any action taken by another, what is their point of reference here? But begin with yourself. Examine yourself first. So it kind of goes back to what you're saying with Dale Carnegie. The intention thing is, you know, when you're looking at the actions of others and our proclivity as people is to judge them or assess their motivations, um, look at yourself first. So if you're going to pass judgment on a certain behavior or a certain outcome, you Got to start by asking yourself, what would I have done in that situation? What if I was in their situation? How would I react? Um, and if you're not viewing yourself first, you're not going to have a realistic perspective on how you judge others because you're being, I mean, people are watching you too. Um, so I've always taken this, you know, coming from someone like Marcus Aurelius, you know, Caesar, uh, it's pretty important that he was being self reflective on his judgment of others. I think it behooves us all to, to follow that advice. And it also keeps you from, from, you know, knee jerk reactions that could have lasting negative impact to a relationship because you take a moment, you think about how would I react? What would I be doing? Why would, what would their motivation be if I were in their situation?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It really gives you kind of a, a good insight.

Speaker A: Yeah. There is absolutely multiple chapters in this book. Dale Carnegie Classic, how to win friends and influence people that talk about this, this idea. And this is the hokiest title and it comes up a lot in my talks.

Speaker B: Um, oh, we've read our whole, we had our whole company read it.

Speaker A: A couple. Yeah, read it. I read a chapter every day. Look, it's dog eared. It's, it's bookmarked. Like I, I just read.

Speaker B: We also like the book the 21 Indispensable Traits of a Leader. That's another, you can go chapter by chapter on that. Um, one too.

Speaker A: And when, and just to hit that idea for folks that I don't, I haven't read, I don't have time to read. Yeah, don't think about it like, hey, I got to go read a whole book, you know, tonight. You know, read a chapter. It takes five minutes. Go through a chapter with your team. Takes, takes, I don't know, do have to have a meeting for 15 minutes. You're all going to learn. So, you know, just because school stopped for you whenever it stopped doesn't mean you stop learning. And so I was, I go back to that. But I love, love that book. Um, I want to talk about incentive programs for a second. I know you guys talk about that. Leaderboards, uh, healthy competition. What have you seen work? What has kind of maybe gone sideways sometimes. What do you think?

Speaker B: Yeah, so, uh, we, we, we believe very firmly in individual incentives where the individual performance can be identified. So if, if the system allows you to log in and sell something, then, then individual teams will work. If that's not possible. I think the other thing is you gotta, you Gotta have a tier based incentive, incentive. The reality is no matter how effective we are as leaders, there's going to be employees that contribute more, more effort. They're intrinsically better, they have gifts that others don't. Whatever the reason, there's going to be a scale. There's always the, you know, the Pareto principle. You're going to have the 80, 20 rule, whatever you want to call it. So we believe in tyrant based incentives. Evidence, an entry level threshold that allows everyone to participate and that'll get people started. Have a second tier where you, when you move beyond minimal effort into moderate effort, you get rewarded for it because that middle section is going to drive the bulk of your result. Um, and then have a tier above that for those that strive for greatness. They get rewarded for it. Um, and that way they don't. They don't. There's not sort of this natural cap where they're like, okay, I'm in the middle. I'm okay. You want those that have that innate motivation to strive for more. And when you have a three tiered incentive like that, what you see is every you, you see movement up the leaderboard is what we're trying to do is get the people at the bottom into the middle, the people in the middle at the top and get the people at top to strive beyond even what you think is possible.

Speaker A: I haven't seen, uh, it described like that. I really like that a lot. And that's something, I don't care what business you're in, you could implement that next week like that. You could take that idea, implement it and it's absolutely great. Everyone's included, right? That you, everybody can, can get the base. Most people are going to be in the middle. And yeah, don't stop. Those high achievers, they, you don't want them to stop in the middle. Let them go. So, man, I love it. I love it. All right. Quote number seven.

Speaker B: A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit. Uh, and you know, for me this sort of resonates the Greek proverb. I don't think it's attributed to anyone. So, um, for me this has become a favorite quote more recently. Uh, obviously I'm a little older now, I'm in my 50s. But um, the idea that you make decisions because they're the right decisions for the future and not for your immediate benefit, um, I think it's a position of maturity. And that's why I think it says old men. Um, it's very, it's very Hard for young people to think this way, and rightfully so. They've got a long way ahead of them just in their own life. But when you can start to take everything you've learned and all the skills you've developed and then pay them forward by doing things that have long term positive ramifications, uh, for society, I think you can have a really healthy, uh, environment. And I think that's true in companies too. You know, this next quarter mentality can be very destructive to the long term health of a company. Um, and that's why personally I probably would never take a company public because it becomes too m focused on the next month and you can't make those longer term product decisions or hiring decisions. Um, but I think it's, this is a really cool way to think as you move, you know, later into your career.

Speaker A: It is you. Sorry, you hit a couple of things I was going to bring up. Yeah, that next quarter mentality. Making decisions that are, you know, make sure I make the, the announcements for earnings because that's important. When you think that way it, it typically can tend to doom the longer term. Not always of course, but, but yeah, if we, if we were to think strategically, man, all the things you would do differently. I was just downtown at our little city here. We're actually in the same part of Florida, uh, Jeff and I. But um, uh, I was downtown and they ripped out the trees and they put in some new ones and the whole idea was to make shade for the street because they do a lot of festivals and stuff and the people complain it gets too hot. And I said, oh, that's good. Of course one of the trees they put in, they're eight foot tall, they're not doing anything. But it's not about today. It's about what it's going to be like, you know, ten years from now. And you have to, and you have to, and you have to think like that. So anyway, made me think about that. What, um, we're, we're starting, we're going to wrap up soon and so forth. But mistake that you made early on, uh, that you'd say, hey, that, that, that, that, that sucked. That was bad.

Speaker B: Yeah, the um, go back to that, that Mutiny story. So I, I had my first job. I was given a team of international, uh, employees that were, you know, in from around the world. One was from Jamaica, one was from Turkey. Um, and the, I was basically, I call it Key Ring syndrome. I think I got that from someone else. But when you first get your first management job and you get your ring of keys, which no one has anymore, but you used to get your ring of keys. You feel like you're really important.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, and you walk around telling people what to do. And that's basically what I did. I. I saw what was going wrong, and I started telling people how to do their job. And they had been doing this job already for a year or more. Uh, and so they were like, who are you to tell me what. You've never done this job before? Like, what are you. What are you doing? And. And that's where I sort of developed that. That mindset of I have to be able to do it, to be credible, to tell others to do it. Um, and that's why, for the rest of my career, if someone offered me an opportunity to do something new, I would take it. I would do. I did a lot of lateral movement in my career in the beginning because I wanted to learn, um, how to do more things. But the big mistake was expecting that because I had a title that people were, you know, automatically going to listen to what I said. Uh, and in fact, the opposite is true. Now, some people, they might. They might reject what you say and get fired for it, but they still didn't do what you wanted them to do. So you still didn't win. You want people to want to. To follow your lead. Uh, and if you go with a heavy hand, oftentimes it will backfire on you.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I wonder if anything sticks out in your brain. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but is anything that a guest once, uh, once did or said that you just haven't forgotten that really sticks with you? A moment, uh, in time that you're like, oh, man, I remember that.

Speaker B: There is absolutely one of those. Uh, so we were. I was a front desk supervisor, so I was still working on the front desk, and there was a convention of, um, doctors or something in the. In there. And this one gentleman, um, had lost his key, uh, and did not have ID on him and did not remember his room number. Um, and so I was questioning, like, how do I verify your identity to give you a room key? And he got irate with me, me, and started screaming, like, in the lobby. And he was a foreign gentleman, and he was screaming at me. Um, and I remember in that moment, because you have these moments where, like, your fight or flight takes over when someone's screaming at you. You don't know, you know, you're sure physically you want to react. And I remember thinking to myself, I Can't react. I'm going to lose my job. So I remember saying to him, sir, I'm trying to assess your behavior to determine whether you are who you say you are. And you're screaming at me, so how do you think I'm interpreting that? And he. It took the wind right out of his sails and he immediately humbled himself and started apologizing. Um, but I. I've never forgotten that. That, you know, sometimes the best way to deal with aggression or with heightened emotion is with no emotion. You have to almost go in the opposite direction. Um, but that. I had to, like, take a break after that one because when I say he was screaming, he was screaming.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is. It is a good lesson. Now, we've all. We've all been in that moment, and the tendency is to elevate, never not to bring it back. So good advice there. All right. When you're not thinking about all this work stuff and stuff, what do you do to relax? Reset.

Speaker B: I read a lot. So I appreciate the fact that your background is books. I actually have more books up here that you can't see. Um, but, uh, I'm. I. I do a lot of audiobooks now because. Okay, my schedule allows me to listen when I can't read. Um, I tend to do three books a month is my average. Um, and I try to split them between the business stuff, which is obviously useful. Pure, um, fiction, which I love, science fiction and fantasy, and then, um, like, historical fiction or, you know, other literature. I try to. I'm trying to get through the list of, like, the top couple hundred books. I still find some of them boring. I'm sorry. They are. But, um, like, I. My book club and I just read the crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon, which is. Pinchon, is very difficult to read. You can go find out why. But, um. But that one turned out to be okay. But, yeah, so I read a lot. I garden a little bit. I wish I had more space to garden more. But, um. And I just, you know, I hang out with my family and. And the kids and, you know, we. We cook together, we eat together every night. It's a good, you know, a family requirement if they're in town. So, you know, try to have a fairly simple life outside of work.

Speaker A: Good. Well, listen, I do. I was going to ask you for a book recommendation, and so you sound like you're the perfect guy to do it. You gave us kind of one. But let me. Let me actually make you do a business book that you Might say, hey, folks, make sure you check this out.

Speaker B: Yeah, So I just finished one. Let me give you the correct title. And it's very timely, um, given what we, you know, the conversation. The AI Driven Leader by Jeff Woods. Jeff. Spelled like my name. Um, excellent work on just how, from a leadership standpoint, how do you bring AI thinking, being AI first in your approach into your decision making and your. And your strategic planning. And I found it to be very insightful.

Speaker A: Good. All right, well, we'll put that one on the list. Uh, we shared a lot. We covered a lot of ground. This was really good. We did not mention the address of your website, so please do that. Socials, LinkedIn. Anything you want to share with folks?

Speaker B: Yes. So our website is. Is www.frontlinepg. like performancegroup.com. uh, we're, we're very active on LinkedIn. Um, so you can find us there. You can find me there. I'm very active on LinkedIn. Um, would love to hear from anyone if they have a question or comment about anything we've discussed. Uh, obviously, if you're a hotel company or a restaurant company, we'd love to work with you. So please reach out. There's a way to contact us on the website.

Speaker A: Awesome. Yeah, uh, this has been great. Jeff, uh, Jeff, find, um, them on LinkedIn. Find them on the web@frontlinepg.com. folks, do me a big favor. If you found this helpful, I hope you did subscribe on YouTube or Spotify, Apple, wherever you happen to be listening or watching. Please do that. Please hit that like button and rate us and review us. All those things are really helpful. Just takes a couple seconds if you would do that. Also, if you could share with a friend, if you found it helpful, that would help spread the word. Uh, and would be super appreciated. We'll see, folks, next time. Thanks, Joff.

Speaker B: Thank you.

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