Getting to ROI with Experiences - with Jennifer Gardner, Creative Director of Event Experiences, ServiceNow

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome back to Real creative leadership. In today's episode, we're joined by Jennifer Gardner, the creative director of event experiences at ServiceNow. That's a hint of what we're going to be talking about now. This is such a great episode because in 2025, we see brands and marketers shaking things up. We have to. And experiential marketing has become a pivotal strategy for brands aiming to forge deeper connections with their audiences. People want immersive, personalized experiences that resonate on a human level, and Jennifer knows how to do that. In fact, if I were to say it like, event experiences are probably one of the best ways that the front door of a brand, like, the best ways for us to experience what a brand is like. So in this episode, we're going to talk about event experiences and dig deep into a few things. We're going to talk about the strategic role of events in achieving ROI and brand engagement. We're going to talk about the mindset required to conceptualize and execute a big, impactful event. And Jennifer will share some real insights and tips on crafting events that align with your brand's vision and objectives. So with all that ado, welcome, Jennifer. Um, I'm so excited to have you here and thanks for joining the show.

Speaker A: Thank you, Adam. Wonderful, um, to be here.

Speaker B: All right, so clearly we're going to be talking about events, and this is really raw for me because I just got back from our big annual event for Twilio, and I don't know when the last time you've been at one, but I'm sure there's some coming up very, very soon.

Speaker A: I just got back from mine, um, at the beginning of this month, first weekend of May. So I am quite right there with you as far as just coming back off the high and kind of experiencing all the post event, um, rush to kind of bring that all together. Everything that we just accomplished, which is a lot.

Speaker B: It is a lot and it's draining. And I know if any of you have ever done those big corporate events, it's just like, so funny because people will say, oh, you're in this wonderful location. Yeah, right. No, we're in a dark room with the lights out for like a week, going through all of the, you know, pre set up and practices and all the coordination and making sure things are printed right, like it's a lot. So maybe let's start with that. Give the audience a, uh, sense of what it's like to work on a big event. A sneak peek into your world of what you go through when you're trying to set something up.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean when you're working on a big event, we start planning pretty much right after. Well, sometimes during the event itself we have to step back and say, uh, like, okay, what worked? What didn't work? And you're already thinking about how you could do things differently. But you start pretty much a year ahead of time and it is bringing in lots of cross, um, collaboration with a bunch of other teams and then dreaming up what you want to be, the moment of people, for people to experience what is in your mind in person. And that's what I think is like the draw for creatives is you can think up something, have it back strategically and then be able to implement on it and see it come to life in real life and see others experience it. And it's something that draws you into the event experience world. Um, at least it did for me for many, many years to really kind of see that come to fruition. And you know, it's, you know, it, it takes a lot of collaboration and attention to detail to pull one of these big events off, but it's so, so worth it in the end.

Speaker B: Maybe give us more details of what specific elements you have to create at

Speaker A: events from everything from the very beginning as far as like that first moment that you're going to push the event live. Like, what is that experience of seeing the pre marketing material? Like what are we trying to say? We got to understand what our theme is. And the one big thing is to make sure that we have a roadmap pulled together that has executive leadership approval from the very beginning and that becomes our strategic goal. Goal and mapping. So every creative idea that we come up with, it needs to map back to that, um, those key business, uh, objectives. Otherwise, um, you know, we don't want to pull together an event that's just trendy and cool and just like a cool vibe. We want to actually have it be meaningful, impactful and memorable for someone to actually move forward and continue their journey, um, within, you know, whatever company that I might be working for, whatever their business objectives and goals are. Because in the end it is about moving people to action, not just experiencing something. We do want to drive some sort of reaction. Otherwise, you know, corporations wouldn't pay for a bit to do the cool. So we need to make sure it has, um, purpose. So it has to be purpose driven in order to kind of keep things moving and get it funded.

Speaker B: So we're not just putting fun posters on the wall and sending funny emails and Putting each other just a lot of smoke and mirrors on a, on a big keynote stage. Like we want to make sure all of those parts and pieces are telling a story.

Speaker A: Yeah. And there's so many people that have a pendant, uh, so rightfully so. But there's just a lot that you know when you're going through all of those phases, whether it's the pre event, um, right when people get on site, because that's a lot of what I do is that user experience, what is that journey that people are going on as they're experiencing the event and what are all those key touch points that um, move them along and keep them inspired and activated to want to pursue learning more, networking more and just learning more about the product or the company that they might be there for? Um, but yeah, there's signage, there's videos, there's motion graphics, there's performance, there's huge scenic builds that are set up for these bespoke experiences. We pull together different types of games I got the last couple of years, um, through my company, we sponsor, uh, like NHL and AMF1. I get to design like cool, um, uniforms and I call them costumes that come from dance.

Speaker B: They are spray.

Speaker A: It's costume, they're in uniform for these events. So it's like you get to touch a whole bunch of different creative elements in order to pull something together, um, for the people that you are building these experiences for. So it definitely runs the gamut. And I think that's why designing for event experiences, you never know what you're going to be doing next and that's what kind of keeps it fresh and new. Yes, I work at a tech company, but I, I design NHL costumes. So you know, like, you know, you get to have a lot of fun as well.

Speaker B: And that's why I say, uh, it's like the front door of a brand. Because yes, I think about it. Normally a brand like you show up on a webpage or in an email, or maybe it's a video, which is really emotional and engaging. But at an event it's all of those things you're getting, not just video. You're sitting in a dark room with the most amazing sound and the largest screen on the planet. Seeing a video, right. Like it's even bigger than a movie theater sometimes some of those screens and it's just so immersive. And then you step out and there's all these walls and mazes and games, all those things you're talking about. It's just like a very sensory experience being at an event.

Speaker A: And that's like our goal is to try to make it as immersive as, as we can as budget allowed. Um, but really kind of thinking through how can we make this resonate with them. So it's, it's looking at the space not just as a functional space but like looking at it more as how can we create this moment that propels people to really engage with our uh, product and also learn and have a good time while doing it. And you know, there's different types of people who attend the events and so you have to think through all the different Personas that are out there to make sure, you're making sure that there's space, there's quiet space for someone who might learn a different way or there's a hands on way for someone to learn in something where they need to be more hands on. So you've got to think through all the different ways that people learn and provide that environment for them so that you're successful, um, for the whole group. Not just like C level executives or something. You know, you, you have to move it all around. And um, I think that's what help makes it fun because there's just like so much engagement and excitement at many different levels to pull people in and talk about content in a way that attracts them.

Speaker B: Ah, yeah, it's so true. Unless you've put one of these events on, you don't know there's an event within an event within an event. Like your whole VIP exec experience is a completely different journey versus those who are just staying in the community zone versus, you know, behind the scenes with the keynotes. Like there's just so many different moments going on and you're trying to orchestrate all these things to get, have it be awesome for every single part of the audience.

Speaker A: And I think what helps drive it and at least how I like to look at it is it's like you're designing for the people first. So, so you're really looking at the human and you're trying to look at their like ways of communicating. The way that um, we try to use our brand and how we're evolving our brand right now is to really be more approachable. You know, big tech can get a little bit siloed with talking about AI so like need to be a little bit more conversational and really grab people in um, through that sort of conversation. And I think that, that designing for the human and the emotional experience is what really helps make it become more memorable and approachable. And then you're able to communicate the content that is necessary. But like designing first of all, right, someone's m going to walk into this room. What is that first moment like you want to touch upon? What is that person going to think? What do you want them to feel? What do you want them to do afterwards? And how do we make that experience seamless so that it can move forward and move their journey forward. Um, and you know what they're came to the event for. So I think a lot of that and having it be a huge experience and being able to touch into audio and like the big screens and the lighting and like bringing in talent and performance, like it just um, is pretty captivating to work in that sort of space and think through that.

Speaker B: Well, now that we've set the stage of like the big picture, I'm ready to dig into some of these small elements and, and parts of this, get your perspective and tips on some of these areas such as like you just kind of set it up with you got a design for that little journey. So I want to talk two things. First, what are the skills that someone need? Like the creative skills? If someone were trying to get into experiential or event in a ah, creative what should they focus on? And then second, I want to really talk about these. You talked about like the first moment they enter this big portal experience. I, I want to dig into that one a little bit more. So let's first start with essential skills like how do you get into this space?

Speaker A: I think um, really wanting to be a storyteller, not just looking at the one activation that you may be working on and delivering that. It's really thinking about what' the full story, what's the full journey and being intrigued to be a storyteller. I think that's something like a creative skill that I see a lot of young artists focus on like that specific deliverable versus asking the bigger question, well, how does this experience actually move them along in the journey and how do we like look at that. So I think storytelling is a big one and I think it leads in naturally to the user experience as well. So like that's the attendee journey. That's just looking at it from one moment to the next and then you know, just at the same time thinking about facial design like opening it up to the entire space, the entire room. And it doesn't mean just the expo hall. If you, you're focusing on something it's like, oh, they're just going to come from the keynote. What was that last keynote message? How do we translate that as they're walking into the expo, what does that mean? And then you know, now they're moving into sessions. How do we contribute that and make sure like the walk in slides or the sessions can like has that same message. So it's like it's just looking beyond your current focus and scope and just being present and you know, looking through all of the different areas of the event. And I think that's a creative skill that you don't necessarily, at least I didn't see that necessarily in schooling. It was more through actually doing it and seeing, oh wow, this is a huge event. Um, um, but I think also like the skills of paying attention to thematic development and uh, how that plays a huge proponent of why you're even in this space, why you're even doing this. Like always asking why and it kind of goes back to that storytelling moment is just to make sure that there's a thematic element that ties your bit and piece into the larger story. And then you kind of need to look at technical skills and production skills of just looking, being able to um, reference like lighting and sound and AV and make sure you, you don't have to be experts in all those but you bring in the right people to help you have the conversations and also thinking through the different types of meeting mediums for visual. So you've got print signage, you've got motion signage, you've got video. Like you have social media, many tools at your fingertips is to not forget about all of those tools. Um, and I think the last, and I think this is the most important one really is collaboration, um, really just around cross functional teams. Because so much like I said earlier, there's so many voices in these big events. There's so many. It's to really pay attention and listen to all the people who have uh, who are a stakeholder and like our job is to pull out the creativity and bring what they want to say to life in a very strategic creative way. But you got to collaborate, you got to talk, you got to open up those communication doors and be willing to uh, you know, be flexible and have them co create with you. And again that's something that you, that I've learned throughout all my years is just being able to not be precious with ideas but let it, let it be a co creation because then you will have a cheerleader, you know, a champion behind you to help move the ideas forward.

Speaker B: Well, and now that we've kind of set the primer for those who are getting into it now, I'd love to just focus more on those who've already put on tons of events and things, like some of our tips and tricks. So, yeah, let's talk about those big, epic portal moments. Like, for me, it's like that one moment when you first walk in and you want them to journey from what their world was before into this new, new world. So talk to me about how you create that transition into a new space. What. What are some of the things that you add or do or make sure are present to. To create that transition?

Speaker A: It. I, uh, really want. I, obviously to try to make it as immersive as possible. And every year it, uh, seems like you have different levers to pull. But it's. It's really trying to tie back to what is the main thing, theme, message of the event, and how can we actually get to that space and what sort of elements help. Now, sometimes, um, we use video and motion to sync stuff all around you. And then we've incorporated lighting as well. What I've always liked to do is also incorporate audio, um, to the experience.

Speaker B: And so let's talk about that. That's been so hard. I've been trying to get audio into that moment. Like there was this one where you walk through this little tunnel and came out, and I wanted to have this, you know, music or something. Then you come out. So how have you done audio?

Speaker A: So audio is tricky because in order to make it work, you have to have the different sound little curtains to where you want that audio to live. But if you have it the way that I incorporated it, um, and this was not necessarily for the big entrance moment, but this was for some interactive games that we were doing. We incorporated audio into the game that was broadcast out live everywhere. So people heard it as you were walking by. Um, but the audio for the, uh, entrance moment, what we tried to do with that is we synced it with certain motion, had it synced with the audio track. And so in addition to that big move, the motion, uh, movement, we also created these sparkles on winches that had motion and design to that. So it was all coordinated together with the lighting. The subtle audio is super subtle. Maybe I only noticed it, but, um. And then you've got all of our motion design, which our motion design team is like, fantastic, fantastic. And they're able to kind of take a lot of the vision and make it come into reality. Um, but yeah, it changes every year as far as what gets approved and how we can reinvent that entrance moment every year, because there's always going to be an entrance moment. And it's just like, how do we one up it from, um, last year and one up it so well.

Speaker B: And something I learned in writing novels, there was this one workshop that I thought was pretty fascinating where he said, as you're describing scenes in the novel, think of all the five senses, right? So it's like, what was. What do they smell? What do they see? What do they hear? What do they feel? And I think that's such a good lesson when you're talking about that entrance moment. And I love how we're like, of course lights, like up light, like lighting makes a big part of it. And then we talked about audio. So it's like, what are you hearing? I haven't even messed around with like scent. Like that could be an interesting thing too. Or, uh, just like how do you get all of those scent, all of those senses present so that as people experience it in different ways in that entrance moment? Yeah, it's just kind of an interesting thing to think about.

Speaker A: I've pitched scent a lot of times and a lot and have not yet had it make it through budget cuts.

Speaker B: It was like, yeah, that's true. Sold the questions.

Speaker A: The budget comes in saying there's always like, yeah, the, the what ifs. But like it is, it is also about building trust with your stakeholders and executives. Because I know I wanted, like I said that it's like a murmuration, the way that the um, sparkles moved and it took quite a bit to keep that in. Like I tried my hardest and it stayed. And they now are like, yeah, let's bring more motion and movement into this moment. It's not just about, you know, motion on screens, but we can like build things that have a little bit more interest. And it's those little key wins which makes me think, well, maybe next year when I pitch sounds more like they'll get it or you know, scent, maybe scent will stay on the table.

Speaker B: It's so true, isn't it? It's like the trade offs always happen and you just have to pick where is the experience that you want to happen. If it's the entrance moment, then you got to give up on carpet. Later on it's just going to be black carpet, no questions, you know. Right. So it's always a good trade off. So how do you. You just mentioned executives and getting them on board and more than just budget. But I wanted to go back to where you talked about the theme because when you start this process the day after the it ends for the next year, I feel like that is one of the hardest things to wrangle is how do you, what are your tips and tricks to getting senior leadership on board with the theme and then on board with timing and getting the story together rather than waiting to the last second. Cause that seems like the natural path is just like they wait till the last second and then they get serious about it.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think what really helpful for us is our CMO is really involved and invested in events, so he knows the importance of planning early. And what we've done last year is we meet together as a smaller creative team that includes our head of brand and VPs to talk about what, what do we want to do differently, what worked. It's, it's bigger than just a debrief. It's like, let's really put our stakes in the ground as far as what, what do we want to do at, uh, the creative brand organization. And then we bring that to our other collaborators like the strategic events team, and then we sit down and we all kind of hash out and get CMO approval on what are, what are our key moments, what are our like top five things that we want to transform, what are we going to put in our focus and effort? Is it going to be on customer experience? Like really nail down where they want, spend the dollars and put the focus in so that us as creatives know where to put our energy really into. And then when it comes to the theme, that sort of is, I mean it is deliberate as far as trying to get aligning, uh, with all the campaigns that are going on at the moment and get input from those teams and making sure that we're all saying the same thing. But that all gets wrapped up, you know, probably three months after this event. So three months after we end, we should be in a good place that we know the general directive. Now obviously themes change all the time, but if you have a general understanding, understanding you're clear on the business objective. It's not even if the word changes or slightly shifts, our experiences are still going to be in, going in the correct direction. And I just think bringing in stakeholders and executives early on is just so key to help co create like I mentioned before, but just really let everyone have a part of the experience to champion it, to move it forward. And you'll get better ideas. You'll just, your ideas will become not only, um, cool and attractive, but they'll also tell the right story. Like you'll learn more about the product, talking with the product team and having them explain more the Intricacies of why we're saying this versus that. Like you don't always know that. And the more you learn more about it, it like the creative just gets better and stronger on how we deliver it. I'm just a big proponent in collaboration,

Speaker B: so that's sound advice. Instead of going off and trying to create some big huge reveal and thing on your own, it's like what you're saying is get, get the team together, build an rme, get everyone on the same page early and often and then together that momentum will get you through it all.

Speaker A: Yeah, and it will. Like they'll champion it to other people. You don't always have to be on the call and hearing it from other voice is always a nice, a nice thing as well. So it's not just coming from one voice, it's coming from multiple places.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. Okay, so events aren't just about big ideas, they're about big outcomes. Let's talk about how creativity connects to ROI and why that's the real opportunity behind brand experiences. So talk to me a little bit about balancing creativity and roi.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that like, like I mentioned, it's really all about that original creative brief and like the alignment up to executives on what our goals are and what creativity does is we are attracting, we're engaging people. And then as long as it's strategic, it ensures it delivers impact which will then deliver on the roi. And I think as we're coming up with creative ideas, we have to think about how can this be measured? And so putting key moments of. All right, in order to start this experience, they need to be badged, they need to get scanned so we know how many people participate. And then when you talk through any of like the engagement interactive games is make sure that your partner who's building them is also considering measurement. So we know dwell time, how many people stayed there, when did they drop off? What option did they choose the most? Often, um, just so that again, we learn more about our people that are experiencing it so that we can deliver better impact. But I think having those ROI measurement ability in the planning phase, not, uh, like, oh, wow, we should figure out how many people enjoyed. This is key to make sure that like everyone's on board. It's not like, oh, well, you guys didn't mention you want this. So we didn't track how many people dropped off. We just had badge scan. So it's like, okay, well that doesn't tell the whole story. But I also think surveys. One other thing that we do um is we hold in person focus sessions at the event so we get real time feedback during the event and then just your own visual like perception. Walk around, experience it and ask people. That's what I do a lot at the event.

Speaker B: Is there a specific metric that you use to prove success for your creative efforts?

Speaker A: I think for, for me, and this might not be necessarily executives, um, but for me is watching people go through the experience and seeing engagement and joy and seeing them really dive deep into a conversation with someone as they're going through it. So it's more and I think that's why I always love going to the event and seeing that because you miss, you miss that if you don't attend your event and, and see it. For me personally I just want to see someone go through the experience that like in the middle of the night I was thinking about and crafted in my head like that seeing if it has the right emotional response to what I was trying to get. Is my metric that I do.

Speaker B: That's for the one that I got recently at our last event. And this is not something that I yeah. Plan on measuring but our um, chief revenue officer sent me a slack and just said just to let you know, a lot of our customers that have come to this event and seeing your rebrand and all the branding efforts and all the energy and the emotion and what they're feeling, he said it's coming up in all of our sales meetings that they're just like holy cow, the brand is just alive and we're just so excited for it. We want to be a part of it. You know, it's, it's increasing sales deals. So the, that that's like a, the down the road impact do events matter? And it was just so nice to get a note saying yeah, our deal sizes are increasing because of, of of how we, they show up in this event and what they're feeling.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess you know we've been getting our, our head of brand was recently just asked to attend like our winner circle. So for all the sales team it's for the sales and marketing's never been invited to this event and he was invited this year. So yeah, when the brand team is being recognized by the CEO, you know we're on a good path and that's always you know like a nice, a nice thing going on. Um, but yeah, having the long term return on that emotional investment that people take their time out to, to be there is just phenomenal and then it is helping business and sales is what will keep us able to still do these events.

Speaker B: All right, so we've talked about why events matter. Now let's get into how creative leaders can make them matter more. So, as you're working with your team and you're helping shape the strategy, I'm curious, as a creative director, how do you ensure that your team is not just designing for aesthetics or for fun, but with intent and following that story that you're talking about?

Speaker A: Um, Um, I think, like I again mentioned, it's bringing them in early so that they understand the story that we're trying to tell. Too often, I think sometime junior creative are being brought in to just execute on, hey, this is what I need. Can you just give me this? And I'd like to usually give way more context. Um, and sometimes I'm like, I'm sorry, you probably didn't need to know all of that, but I think it will help you understand why I'm asking you to think through this experience. And I find that that usually helps bridge more, um, conversation and more collaboration. And the creativity just, they feel like there's a safety net that they can collaborate and talk with me versus present to me all the time. It's more of, uh, a, let's have a conversation about this. Are you stuck? Let's. Let's figure it out together. So that's how I think working with creatives helps keep people on the same page, is by just bringing them in early, give them the. The background to the ask, and then let them do what they do best and deliver on their creative journey. Um, that I've asked them to do, and I think also just to reinforce and ask better questions is something that I try to do is like, when. When we are having the conversation is, well, why are we doing this? What's the reason for this? Why you chose this color? And it's not to get too granular and do, like, the mechanics, but to really make sure that they're realizing that it's. It's. Yes, it's green versus blue, but why. Why choose the green? Because that, like, elicits some sort of emotional response in this area and just talk through it a little bit more and make sure that they're, like you had just said, they're designing with purpose and intent and that, like, details really do matter. Um, but the more that I can be better at asking the right questions and pushing my own work, like, I love that from other people when I'm working with the team and they ask, well, why did you do this? Because I have an answer. I Totally have an answer, but sometimes, you know, it's not communicated that way. I thought I communicated it, but obviously I didn't. So it's good to get that pressure testing from others as well. Because some, sometimes I back in the day for like pitches you find out that, you know, feedback from the client is they didn't like such and such or something. You're like, well if they would have just asked me, I could have totally explained why I went that way and see why that made sense, aligned with their business goals and objectives and within their brand story. Um, but just it's like a reminder that you really need to make sure other people can see your thinking because it's not always you think people can see it, but you don't always are successful at that.

Speaker B: As a creative leader, how do you um, get not just your team, but also cross functional teams to embrace risk taking? Like when we're talking about these big key moments or trying something new or you know, it's not just getting attention, it's like how do you make that shift to get them to buy into these big immersive moments?

Speaker A: I think that's where you have to be really strategic, um, and know what like, you think about what their concerns are like, come from their perspective, what is driving their hesitancy and figure out how can you solve it and again communicate to them why this risk, this creative approach is the right thing to do because it will answer and solve something that is of interest to them. And as long as you can push it back to strategy, that's where you are allowed to be able to take that risk. The moment it becomes, well, it's just really cool.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: It loses a little bit of um, um, authority. Like can't just be what's trendy and what's hip in the moment. It needs to be right for the business, right for them and bring them along for the journey. And again, it's really about that, that collaboration. And so I think that like talking, having that conversation with them and uh, allowing them to see more of the uh, strategy behind the creative ask will inevitably allow you to build the trust to do more risky things that they may seem as things risky. Um, so yeah, with my sparkles and the movement, like I said, I was just like, no, this, this works. This is how we're showcasing AI right now. It's a murmuration. It all works together. It makes sense. It's visually and so it was just really championing that idea and reinforcing it and pointing it out in different ways to different stakeholders and we were able to accomplish it.

Speaker B: So the last big question and ah, we alluded to this earlier, but I'd love to come back to it. Give us an example of whatever the biggest wow moment that you've ever experienced at an event. What's the thing that has burned a memory into your brain that you can't forget is like that's the ultimate example.

Speaker A: The ultimate example I think would have to be when I was able to incorporate my passion for performance and dance with music, light, motion and was able to really take over an entire space, um, for two consecutive days where there was a continuous storyline for from one to the next. And um, two days.

Speaker B: You had a performance going for two days.

Speaker A: Well, not two days consecutive, like one keynote for one day and one keynote for the second day. And but like the same performer that started in one was the performer and the other but in a different format. And so I think that was pretty epic for me to be able to build that experience and really embrace all of the different, um, learnings that I have had and create that moment for everyone to experience. But yeah, that was, that was pretty epic for me.

Speaker B: Oh, that's great. All right, well, before we wrap, I just want to leave our audience, especially the creative leaders out there, with some tangible takeaways. All right, number one, what's one principle or mindset you always bring to the creative process when designing an experience from scratch?

Speaker A: This, the emotional response, like really looking at what is that emotion that I want to bring out in people? That's like a key principle.

Speaker B: Love it. Next, what's a key move you make to ensure your events always deliver on business value? Not just a great vibe to make

Speaker A: sure it's strategically driven. Make sure there's managing that perfect start from the beginning.

Speaker B: And what's one piece of advice you'd give to another creative leader looking to inspire teams and align with stakeholders on a big bold moment?

Speaker A: I think it's to really, it's, it's the cross collaboration is uh, make to bring in your stakeholders early and co create it together and you'll, you'll have the champions you need to help bring that risk to life.

Speaker B: Well, that's awesome. Thank you, Jennifer. This is just for, as a summary for everyone listening. Events are so much more than just, you know, a little moment in time. Like they are just these big opportunities to really have your brand shine and be immersive with, with so many different ways and experiences. Like you'd said earlier, it's like this 3D experience of a journey traveling through space with scale and everything else. So there are huge opportunities for brands to make a bigger impact with events. And we're so glad that you were here to talk to us about your experience at Benz. Thank you so much to Jennifer for joining us on RealTrader.

Speaker A: Thank you, Adam. I really appreciate it.

Speaker B: As always. You can find me@adamwmorgan.com and finally, this show is produced by the Stoke Group, a full service digital agency that specializes in content marketing, video and interactive experiences. So if you're looking for a partner for strategy or content or anything else, visit thestokegroup.

Speaker A: Com.

Speaker B: Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time.