How to Break Into Private Equity Investor Relations

Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining and welcome to Path to Partner. I am Andrew Darkovich. I think I've seen some of you on Private Equity marketeer in the past. Thank you to YOB and the entire team over at pem. It's uh, a pleasure to be with you all. So this is the first module in Path to Partner about getting in the door, what it actually takes to break in to invest relations in private markets. And whether you're coming from university, straight out of school, switching from banking or consulting, or crossing the LP side, what we want to do is just give some tips and tricks to make it happen. Um, I've sat in many of those seats, starting my career at Goldman, moving to growth equity and venture capital most recently and now today sitting in an LPN operating seat at a family office. So I personally have seen uh, investor relations done brilliantly. I've learned from the best, I've built from scratch. I've also seen the common hurdles and missteps that many professionals make, especially when trying to break in to investor relationship. And so that's why we have a real expert on the line, Debbie Idleman. How are you?

Speaker B: Hi Andrew. I'm um. Well thank you and thank you so much for having me here today. I'm very excited to be part of this program and be able to share some of the insights that I've built over the years. Just as a quick background, I work for a firm called PER Private Equity Recruitment. We are a specialist private market search firm headquartered here in London, um, and present across multiple locations both in Europe, the US and Asia. We place professionals across all levels of seniority, uh, and roles within private markets. I lead our investor relations and fundraising practice and I've been doing this since, well for about 16 years now. It has been a real privilege and I've had the great opportunity of working with a um, vast uh, group of private market firms across um, different um, sector strategies sizes, different roles within IR and fundraising. We've placed over 450 people over the years in IR and fundraising, uh, roles. I work with an amazing team of uh, investor relations and fundraising dedicated professionals and I'm um, always keen to get to know new potential candidates and GPs looking to hire.

Speaker A: That's awesome, Debbie, thank you so much. I think for everyone listening, Debbie has a vantage point that almost no one else has and she's seen careers grow from the most junior to the most senior, uh, professionals at um, at GPS for almost two decades. And more importantly, she knows what GPS are looking for behind closed doors. Maybe Those opinions and thoughts that candidates don't always get to recognize. But most importantly, she's seen which cover letters land at the top of a desk versus the pile on the floor. So hopefully we can uh, extract some knowledge from you today, Debbie. So let's, let's kick off. I think something that I wish I had asked very early on in my career, um, going into investor relations was what the heck is investor relations? What is the job when a GP says they're hiring an IR person, what are they actually hiring for? Because I found depending on the firm, IR means reporting and LP servicing, pitching or prospecting, relationship management, marketing and brand. And uh, at the smaller shops it's all of those all the time, all at once. So your version, what is investor relations? Actually in 2026, I 100% agree with you.

Speaker B: Investor relations have got so many different facets and there's so many different ways in which you can look at it from my perspective. The way I think about investor relations is everything that has a touch point with the investor. Whether it is for capital raising, for relationship management, for, for engaging in conversation, for reporting. PR and marketing to a degree, really is everything that touches the investor and the potential investor to a degree. And it doesn't matter what type of investor that is. It could be um, a large institutional investor through to a high net worth individual, anybody that will have an, an influence and that is potentially giving for providing capital to make investments.

Speaker A: So with that in mind, right, any opportunity, uh, to touch an investor, an external counterparty to a fund. What roles are really available? How do people get into it? What are the most common entry points? Maybe what routes produce the best practitioners over time, given how broad it is.

Speaker B: Let me start there. What would be a good route to come into an investor relationship or fundraising role? And particularly when you're a junior professional and you're starting to think what are your alternatives? My clients tend to like effectively four avenues plus, I call it four plus avenues in terms of uh, the backgrounds that they like to hire from. Um, and they tend to be the natural sources of candidates that we go to to identify professionals from. So one is the traditional investment banking professional and that could be either somebody doing an M and a UM or an industry role, but equally somebody doing capital markets, more sort of eth, CMDCM type of backgrounds. And the reason why my clients like that background is because of the rigorous training that these professionals get at the earlier part of their career. They have a very strong understanding or they should have a very strong understanding of how the Deal environment works, um, and at the same time they need to have or they are being trained to be very investor client minded. So they tend to be equipped with very good tools that are very transferable when it comes to doing an investor relations job. Uh, and that could be as simple as running an Excel and a spreadsheet or putting a PowerPoint together. But the real skills that my clients tend to be after are, you know, can they still like content, a large amount of content and information and trans, uh, and transform it into an investor friendly and more simple material if you want. Equally the other reason why they like investment bankers or bankers in general is an internal one. A lot of these, my clients tend to come from an investment banking background themselves, particularly the deal team. And being able to speak the same language internally with your internal stakeholders and understand what they're talking about makes it a lot easier for that internal engagement and for that cultural alignment. So it's certainly a very strong background and highly ah, sought after for these roles. Um, and equally we have other backgrounds. I mean we've got people coming from placement agents and uh, you'd argue whether a placement agent is already within the strength of IR or not. And some people argue they are, some people won't. But I mean I think they are a fantastic background or candidate pool to go into IR because they get so much, they see so many different funds and products and how they market themselves and they see although from the outside what a fundraising process look like. So it's probably the closest you have from doing an investor relations role. And really the training from the placement agents tends to be very, very additive, um, and almost the quickest to hit the ground running into IO. But there's other backgrounds, uh, particularly here in the UK and I believe in the US as well. We, we also engage with the uh, lead advisors or professionals from accounting firms and they tend to be liked for, for similar reasons than the bankers. They have good training, good processes, good transferable skills in terms of understanding financial terminology, terminology, what a balance sheet is telling you, what a cash flow is telling you and sometimes they also have a good understanding of what other stakeholders within the organization that are important to IR are also very alike. So you know, the fund operations,

Speaker A: um,

Speaker B: finance teams, they all engage significantly with ir. So depending on some of the roles the lead advisors get an important um, a prominent role in investor relations. And then another background that is growing and is growing further the more type of investors we have across the industry is the asset management community, people sitting in alternative product roles in sales Support roles, in sales roles, they tend to be a good pool of candidates and I'll complement all of those profiles with people from the industry doing different roles, whether they are an investment back, an investment professional, an LP and sometimes coming from finance. Uh, those who have worked extensively with IR start to see a uh, compelling reason to transition into ir. And the more strategic and prominent IR has become, these functions have uh, or these professionals have seen the upside and the opportunity to making that transition

Speaker A: incredibly comprehensive. I think uh, sitting in your seat and having the experience of placing folks, you obviously have that demand sense. And one of the things that definitely resonates is uh, when uh, I going through and reflecting on my career and the language, being able to speak the language is really important. And just having heard nuggets from various walks of life, IR to me, and I think you'd agree is very much a flexible role where sometimes you have to think like an investment professional, sometimes you have to think like the cfo. And so it really nice to, to see just folks from the operational side of the business more the accounting side because in certain IR roles that is really important, less so in others. I'd be curious for a lot of the folks, um, listening and learning, you know, they may have an interest or an active pursuit coming from banking, coming from finance, even some cases coming from outside of the traditional GP world or investment universe, um, what would you recommend is like the really good ways to structure your cv, structure your educational process to round out that skill set and demonstrate to potential hires that you're interested, you're committed and you have an understanding of what's required.

Speaker B: It's very important that uh, people think about what skills they're building today and how transferable those skills are. And what does junior professional tends to need in order, what are those skills that clients are looking for? I think a key one is an understanding of what the industry is all about. So showing interest and passion for the space, the sector, reading uh, and following the market is crucial. Um, and in parallel to that then sort of what are those hard skills you need to be able to be numerate and you may not need to be as numerate as the deals guys and really sort of go into spreadsheets, um, and financial models from end to end. But you need to understand what the models and evaluations are telling you and how are the, and you know, what are the key performance indicators? How do you calculate those performance indicators so important to be numeric, important to be familiar and comfortable with performance indication, um, in parallel with that you know, the beauty of investor relations is that we're always seeking an extremely well rounded professional. If you're highly humored, it's fantastic. But unfortunately that's not enough. You need to have a little bit of everything so you need to complement that with the other side. You need to build up your communication skills. And communications is, yes it's talking and presenting, but equally is writing and drafting and how you present your message. So all kinds of communication and using data to transition data into relevant content and succinct content is super important. So those two go, uh, you know, the financial side, the communication side and then what overlays it is that attention to detail. You know, nothing can go with an error. Everything has got to be impeccably perfect and looking ahead of going to an investor. So super detail oriented. So all kinds of examples that show that you've got that because you work in a, uh, because you, you have to write or you have to develop a presentation to go to a deal, because you have to write reports to go to clients. All of that show that you are building those founding blocks and skills that you need to use in investor relations. And then a big one around that is because we define investor relations in so many ways. Investor relations seems to be a multitude of projects. You've got to be able to prioritize, you've got to be able to multitask and run and juggle different things at the same time. And that's got to be your art and your skill. But it is really incredible how many things happen at the same time within investor relations functions.

Speaker A: The sun never sets on IR professionals because there's all these balls on the ground. And uh, gps, regardless of firm size or structure, there's this kind of sense of our IR person and the team can handle it. Whether that's corralling the deal team on a co investment or the process and pre fundraising, pre marketing. There's a lot of delegation to IR and I really appreciate what you said about prioritization. There's no science or very little science at times in industrial relationship. It's an art project constantly and everything priority. Priority at uh, 8am is very different than the priority that comes up at 8:05am that's right.

Speaker B: And they're all super important.

Speaker A: Exactly. So something that um, you mentioned was just firm size and kind of where and how things change over time, how the role changes and develops. So maybe double clicking into you get your first IR opportunity. How much does firm size actually matter? How much does sector generalist at a smaller GP versus specialist at a larger one. What are the real implications for somebody's career today, five years from now, ten years from now?

Speaker B: That is an excellent question. There isn't the right answer for it and it's very much dependent on the individual. And what are the long term goals an individual wants to have? If you're in a large organization, as you would expect, uh, roles are more defined, more structured. There is a bit more of a hierarchy around it and you have to sort of progress. You know, progression tends to take a little bit longer. There's an infinite number of stakeholders and sometimes a bit of bureaucracy around it that needs to happen. You also get fantastic training and if you're patient, you know, you get to go to incredible places and the exposure that you gain, likely across strategies, product people, is really, really incredibly exciting. And now, uh, going into a smaller firm, you're betting a different project. It's uh, perhaps a little bit more entrepreneurial, um, whoever you're going to be working closely with. So that line management is going to be very important in terms of what exposure you get and how that role develops. You got to have a, an incredible level of personal willpower and personal drive, self determination to really sort of get up and go without a lot of direction. But then the exposure is broader, it does go quicker, um, and you get to do things that in other environments will take a little bit longer. So I think it is, it goes back to the question what, what really drives the person at the core? And if you, if you like to be challenged with a problem and not being given a lot of guidance where you have got to sort of come up with ideas and implement those ideas from A to Z, I think that entrepreneurial environment couldn't be even, couldn't be more exciting. I mean there's just so much you get to learn and do. But if you like to take your time and learn, you know, step by step how things work, then perhaps a more structured, larger corporation is a much better opportunity for you.

Speaker A: That's perfect. I've sat on both sides and kind of experienced the blessings and the curses of it. You know, fundamentally when you say the traditional folks coming from an ECM or DCM background, they just get the process right. There's kind of intangibles that regardless of career, I think bankers do a pretty good job of do this and this and it's very structured. And then I think really for earlier professionals in their career, starting off and getting a year or two or even a summer internship of that Experience is ineffably valuable later on in your career. And then to, uh, your point around smaller firm or entrepreneurial, by all means. But if you're a person who doesn't know what IR is, stepping into a more structured, larger firm before making that jump, I've seen work well, and at least the folks that I've had the pleasure of working with and hiring.

Speaker B: So what I would say though is when I think of IR professionals, particularly here in Europe, it's quite rare to see grads jumping into IR straight out of university. It's often the case that they do have a few years of training ahead of jumping into ir. Um, I think that, um, I think if we look into what's happening now and forward, I think the industry is going to go hiring grads a little bit quicker into ir. But, um, I think the majority of the people, I mean, I think if you're in a placement agent or in a banking role today and you're considering a smaller firm versus a larger firm, I think that's where it's valid that, um, depending on who you are and where you think you thrive better, that that will be, um, a good avenue. I would certainly agree with you that training earlier on in your career from a structured environment is definitely important to set you well for the future. But if you've got a good mentor above you in a smaller organization, maybe you get that there as well.

Speaker A: That's a good point. Shifting gears again.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker A: Looking at, uh, you've placed how many candidates over your career so far?

Speaker B: Well, we've been doing the numbers recently as a team. We've played 150 people since 2019, officially.

Speaker A: So, okay, so a little over, uh, what, six, seven years now. Um, hundreds of candidates. What are GPS asking for when they come to you? And then another question is just how has AI actually influenced or shifted those requirements? Are you seeing new expectations or is the job spec effectively the same?

Speaker B: Um, I mean, the skills that we are, that we are seeking for remain, and these are some of the skills that we've been discussing earlier. It's that numeracy, communications, attention to detail, all of that coming together, uh, in one person. They gotta be there. But I think that recently we are seeing more and more enthusiasm for usage of AI tools across the, um, CIR function. You know, somebody asked me, oh, do you have a job spec that talks about how, you know, how candidates should be using AI today? I'm like, well, not yet, but we can definitely put that one together. Um, so it is definitely M more and More being tested and being seek for, uh, in interview processes. Um, and it's not just ability to use the AI tools is how do you go about it and really how are you conscious about the fact that AI, uh, doesn't necessarily replace it, just it adds on top. I'm not sure if I am being clear, but you can't just rely on AI, uh, just press a button. It is helping to simplify things and to get the output a little bit quicker. But you still need somebody with a uh, thinking brain that is going to analyze what AI is giving you and making sure that it's appropriate, that it's accurate. It's really answering a question. Uh, I think for now what we're looking for is people that want to get their hands dirty with AI that have been familiar using some of the tools, but more importantly that they are not just letting it run by itself and then taking advantage of whatever output that is, but it's, it's being used smartly.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a tool for augmentation and simplification of workflows, not the uh, destruction of your daily job.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. And a lazy tool.

Speaker B: Yeah. Somebody's asked me, is AI replacing headcount? And I was, you know, I had a conversation earlier with a client about this. Um, and it's certainly not the case, at least not for the foreseeable future. It's enhancing it, it's making the IR role more dynamic and more engaging to allow for some of the more mundane, um, output to be done a little bit more efficiently. But you still need, there's still a lot of work to be done and you still need somebody that looks at the information and analyzes the output.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's um, anecdotally when I look at the investor relations space with AI and the whole replacing of white collar work. To your point. Exactly. It makes the mundane a little bit easier and faster and frees up time for IR professionals to do what I believe IR does and that's bridge relationships and build relationships. So it allows at least in my role, me, the ability to sit at a desk less and be out with investors more. And so I do think the uh, IR role as a collective whole is one that won't be destroyed or decimated by AI. And I feel like in this market where we're reading about all those negatives, there's a positive in being a good salesperson, a good relationship manager and then being very analytical to take AI but still have that human brain and judgment.

Speaker B: Absolutely, fully agree with you.

Speaker A: So you'd mentioned the strong candidates, what they have in common, some of the reasons, some of the skill sets to go into ir, the various types of roles. I'd be curious, uh, as to uh, if you are a hiring manager or you're a gp, you're looking to bring in that IR person. If you're a candidate and you and somebody else look identical on paper, how are candidates better right now? Or what's differentiating them in the hiring process? How do you stand out in the

Speaker B: crowd really is how much, what is your preparation, um, ahead of jumping onto a process and going through a process on a stage by stage basis? It is looking at it from the upside. It is so enjoyable to hear a client telling me, oh my God, that candidate was so well prepared. We had such an interesting conversation about whatever that was. But it's just, it's incredible how often candidates underestimate that. And it's so important, it's so important that they research and prepare about the industry and about the firm that they're going to be meeting about the person that they are uh, going to be speaking to, that they really develop a deep understanding of what is it that they're going to be interviewing, being interviewed for and really demonstrate that not because they're going to be tested and like, tell me what you know about this firm, but really that they can bring up their insights in their knowledge and their findings into the conversation. Um, and the more they're able to do that, the more they're going to impress the interviewer. So certainly research and preparation is key.

Speaker A: The other element that's research on the organization, but then also the sector and overall market. Right?

Speaker B: It's the overall market, it's the organization and it is on uh, you as well. Like you need to really spend time thinking about, you know, the key question, you know, I always tell my candidates, why are you looking to make the transition into investor relations? What is it about this company specific and what is it about this role within this company that you gotta have personal answers that are unique to you to be able to build a story around you and then top that up with well, look at your experience and look at what are the skills that are required for this job and make sure that you have got stories is to tell an examples about projects or things that they have worked on that bring to light those skills. The more that becomes natural and they don't have to sort of think about it and connect it on the spot, the better and the more fluid that conversation and then the, the interviewer can Take the conversation further and the interviewer will be willing to give a lot more about themselves and about the role into it. And then that's how you start building connectivity about the opportunity and the job. And then try and find out around the sight lines about the person and about, uh, and you, what are your personal. The interviewer is also going to have when I want to know about you as an individual, what drives you, what are your hobbies, what do you do outside of work? Um, and another big tip, um, that I also like to tell my candidates is one thing is you to describe you describing yourself about yourself. Another one is if you tell a story about what somebody else have said about you. Uh, when you're talking about motivations, for example. Well, I've been given feedback. In my last review I was told that my strengths lie on presentation skills, on my written, you know, my ability to distill really interesting and key information into simple, um, material, whatever it is. Right. Or I was speaking to my best friend the other day and they told me X, Y and Z. So getting validation, third party validation into your own messaging makes it a little bit more credible.

Speaker A: Two things stand out in what you said, I think authenticity. Right. In your story, your reason, the personal stories that you tell, it's very common and I've seen this when interviewing, um, that folks read through the boxes of the job description. But the authenticity, which my partner says is the highest form of vibration, can you tell? We live in California and it's the second somebody says, I love ir. I love all the bits and pieces of it from the operations and the process all the way through to pitching a prospective investor. You could just, you feel the energy. It's really, really important.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, the second element that, that stands out in what you said was just about IR and third party validation. I'm a big believer investor relations is a team sport. At the end of the day, it's not your Firm as an IR professional, it's your GP's firm. You're dealing with the investment team, you're dealing with the ops team. You're dealing with people across the internal organization and externally. You have to be the type of person who's a team player. And it might not feel like the quarterback. It's very much at times like the offensive lineman and sorry for the American football references, but there's a lot of walking and tackling and thankless moments and periods where your job is to sell everyone that you're working with. You're not talking about yourself, you're talking about how great everyone uh, alongside you is. And so I appreciate you mentioning that.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I'll wrap it up with another one, which I think you also alluded to because you interact with so many people and IR has got so many different angles, is that willingness to do, no matter what job it is, whether it is super strategic, high level, dedicated to senior management, or, you know, yet another copy and paste of it, or sort of transitioning the pivot table from one side to the other side, it really doesn't matter. It's doing it uh, with the same level of commitment and attention and being able to demonstrate that you're really willing and that you mean it, that you're willing to do this, the key stuff and the less exciting stuff with that commitment. It's very important, particularly at these entry levels, because you will be doing it all.

Speaker A: That's a really good point. The topic of we understand, I think, what GPS want, how kind of broad it is, but also very tangible in terms of having the operational side of things being very authentic. In those interviews. I'd be curious as to uh, why some candidates maybe don't get the offer. Right. That's what most people don't talk about, the gap between so close and ah, yes, we want to make ah, an offer. Can you talk about some of the patterns that you've seen or just some of the, oh, it was so close for a candidate.

Speaker B: It's, I mean the nuances there become really, really almost hard to pinpoint. Um, and sometimes it's really sort of the cultural intangibles that may, you know, tilt from one to the other. I mean by the time, time two candidates get to a very, uh, very final stages, they've passed a case study, they've been interviewed by 5, 10 people. It's clear they can do their job. It's clear they have shown enough ability to, to get to the final stages of the process. So then what tilts it is, is really that personal alignment or a bit more. There's so many different stakeholders and at that point is who got a little bit more consensus than the other person. And, and it, yeah, uh, in my opinion it's a little bit more the intangibles that make it there. But really like if you're not going through the first to meet stages, it's perhaps a little bit more on you. Um, have you prepared well? Have you thought this through? Have you learned from one process to the next? It's actually quite unusual for people to get, um, get the first job they interview for in Whatever role. But specifically in ir, you need to go through a little bit of practice to warm up. Especially if you've been uh, a couple of years or quite a few years out of training and interview practice. So it does take a bit of time to warm up. Those first stages is a little bit on you. After that it's less on you. And you know, my suggestion is don't take it personally. I mean some jobs I know you people really, really want and it, you know, and they put so much effort into them, into the whole process, so much preparation and in the end somebody else is just that bit better. It's not on you.

Speaker A: It's, uh, a parallel is even when you have the IR job, you, I like the joke, have to kiss a lot of rings or kiss a lot of frogs to find a princess. And uh, the job of ir, it is challenging. As an investor, you're saying no to companies very frequently. As an IR professional, you're getting said no to every single day. So it can be tough on your heart and soul and your mind. But ultimately the interview process is very similar.

Speaker B: Yeah, it shouldn't discourage people from pursuing it because, I mean, I find it so interesting how somebody underperforms and does so horribly with one client and then they do so well in the next process. Um, and I mean, in some instances it's quite, um, obvious and like, you know, that candidate is not doing well, they're not doing the preparation. Okay, well, something's wrong with the candidate. But sometimes it's really just you are not a match for them and you're a match for somebody else. And look how amazing it is. It just wasn't meant to be.

Speaker A: It's dating,

Speaker B: in other words.

Speaker A: Oh, this is fantastic. I think I'd love to round out with one or two pieces of advice for anyone and everyone trying to break in. I know you've hit on prepare, research, the firm, et cetera, but if you had a silver bullet or two in the chamber, what would you recommend?

Speaker B: Definitely prepare. I would say be open minded. Some people tend to be like, I just want this. And I think being open minded is very important. You will learn so much and maybe stuff that you haven't come across before. And one thing we have not mentioned today, which I 100% recommend, is make friends with people like me. Because we are door openers and if you don't listen to us, if you don't take our calls, or if you don't pay attention to what we're saying, you may be missing a trick or two. So value the importance of the relationship with your search partners, with the recruitment firms. Um, it doesn't mean that you have to speak to everybody. It doesn't mean that you only speak to one. Um, but it doesn't have to be just for the purpose of recruitment because search partners are not there just to hire. We have got so much more to offer and quite frankly you have got so much more to offer to us beyond recruitment. And it's about building a long term relationship. When the time is right, that partnership and that relationship will show results that are a little bit stronger than connecting the dots and information. There's so much information we can give you, you can share with us. Uh, build a long term relationship with your search partner and that will pay off over time.

Speaker A: I love it. That is amazing advice. Tabby. I want to do one thing here and a quick lightning round so those uh, listening and taking notes can have a really just structured quick start map to uh, breaking into IR and the path to partner series here. Um, so I'm going to ask a question. This is think quiz show, game show. Let's be uh, fast, precise and the first thoughts that come to mind. So first and foremost, where do you start if you want a job in IR

Speaker B: research? Go online, look at financial careers and all, uh, the different websites.

Speaker A: Who do you reach out to? Recruiters, professionals. How do you network?

Speaker B: Definitely recruiters and peers that have had a similar experience to yours that are doing the job today.

Speaker A: Awesome. LinkedIn's a great place to start. You had mentioned e Financial careers is a place to find jobs. Where do you see a lot of job postings or a lot of opportunities?

Speaker B: LinkedIn, you know, you need to be able to navigate LinkedIn all the time. Um, and with that I'll give you another one. Make sure that your LinkedIn page is fully up to date, functional, uh, and active. Active means that you are in it more than three times a year.

Speaker A: Easier said than done. I think for the younger generations they're a little bit more accustomed to it.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Next question. Where does one learn? Where does one expand their skill set? How do they do that.

Speaker B: In terms of resources? Obviously this one that is going to be, uh, launched soon. I think that some of our clients produce a lot of insightful material and market reports. So certainly, um, go and visit some of the larger clients. There's some really, really interesting uh, market reports. Certainly some of the larger gps produce amazing market reports. I think some of the secondary funds have got amazing material. Uh, so looking into those is helpful. The strategy consultants like McKinsey and Bain produce amazing reports that are very relevant to the industry. But I think you learn the most by speaking to people. Obviously follow the press and everything, but speak to people, get a sense for what funds are thinking about, what are people within in the industry are concerned about. Um, and I think you get to learn a lot from them.

Speaker A: And I guess importantly you're interested in ir, you want to apply, what are the first immediate steps to do in your CV or resume? Just to make sure you have the foundational elements that put you on par with maybe more experienced professionals or just anyone that's applying for roles with gps.

Speaker B: So make sure that your CV is your open door. It's got to be perfect. There cannot be mistakes in any way whatsoever. Incredible number of errors in those CVs and they're so quickly noted by the detail oriented IR professionals and ourselves. So make sure that there's no errors in your cv. Your CV is a one pager. It's a snapshot of your, of your career and your education. Your education is important. Um, and think about a CV that is succinct but it indicates and shows the skills that you've got. Very, very important. If you're a banker, don't just put deals, deals are for deals. You know, make sure that you know what are, what uh, else have you learned in that deal environment that you've uh, that you've been working on. So, and make sure that your LinkedIn is fully up to date. I don't know if uh, I said that before but LinkedIn has got to be up to date, very, as detailed as possible. You need, we need to be able to find you and the only way for us to find you is to know what you're doing. If you're telling me that you're an analyst at an incredibly large bank, but I don't know what type of analyst, what team, what role. That doesn't give me much. So I need to know as much as I can as possible in order to, for me to be able to find you. So yeah, your CV, your LinkedIn page and make sure that you uh, are getting in touch with people like me.

Speaker A: Debbie, thank you so much. This is amazing. Your perspectives are just so valuable, confirmatory. But also I learned a ton as well. I think if there's a through line between everything that you said, it is research, research, research and be authentic, right? Yes. Know your why, know your purpose, know what gives you energy. And within the IR ecosystem there are so many different. I like to say you don't know what you don't know. So meet people, ask questions, learn. And as you want to jump in, chat with you right at the beginning. So hopefully you have a lot of conversations here. Um, but thank you so much for joining and spending time with all of us and everyone listening. Thank you for joining and can't wait to see you again later on. Module 2 is now up next.