The AI Wrapper Gold Rush: Opportunity or Bubble?

Speaker A: Welcome in the next episode of Pragmatic Docs. Today with me is Dadik Tadasek, with whom we are going to discuss AI wrappers, not rappers wrappers, the new big thing in tech. Or maybe this is something that is just another bubble. Stay with us and listen to this episode. So you will learn a couple of things about how to make money in a simple way in a very short time just by building an app on top of some AI models.

Speaker B: You can build an AI wrapper in a week to solve a very tiny problem. But how to make it successful, we'll discuss today.

Speaker A: In this podcast, we talk to founders and experts to share real stories and lessons from building and scaling digital products and companies. Pragmatic Talks is for those who want to understand how digital products are really built and grown. No fluff, no buzzwords, just honest conversations. So let's start with something that is very, very simple. Let's try, try to explain what is an AI wrapper?

Speaker B: Well, AI Wrapper is an app that gives user better experience than just pure AI. It's built around existing AI model, like let's say ChatGPT, but solves a specific problem for a user. Right. So it's an existing AI technology behind and completely new layer over it.

Speaker A: So it's basically something very, very simple on top of something, some AI model or models.

Speaker B: Depends. Right. We probably gonna talk today about multiple examples of AI wrappers. A good question is like, do you use an AI wrapper?

Speaker A: Yes, I do. I actually didn't know that there is a name for that. But uh, for a long period of time I've been using, uh, I think two apps that are some kind of, uh, AI wrappers. One is the app that is, uh, helping me taking care of my plants at home. It's very simple app that first of all using AI for recognition, like recognizing uh, the plant on the picture and then it provides the entire plan on how to take care of this plant. So this is one thing and actually this is one of not so many apps that I'm paying subscription for. So I'm the customer or the victim of uh, AI wrappers, uh, we'll decide it later on. And the second app that I'm using pretty often, or I used to use pretty often, uh, was the um, mushroom recognition app. So pretty similar thing, uh, where I was using up to, you know, when I was collecting mushrooms just to check if this is something that will kill me or maybe not necessary.

Speaker B: That's really cool. AI wrappers, I would say. And you didn't feel like scam after you downloaded and you realize today that this is just, you know, wrapper, not like, you know, brand new technology.

Speaker A: So with the second app, uh, the Motion Recognizer, I've stopped using it at some point, uh, since I've started simple using Google Photos for that. And I felt that it's way more accurate than, than this particular wrapper. Uh, so using Google Photo Search or Search by photo, uh, which works pretty well uh, for mushroom recognition, uh, still I don't recommend that. I uh, think that first of all you need to learn how to recognize mushrooms. I'm only using it, uh, when I'm not 100% sure, just to confirm that I know what I'm collecting or what I'm living in the forest.

Speaker B: Yeah. So let's just sum it up maybe. Right? So for example, in terms of the apps that you use, you make a photo and it's being sent apparently to different LLM that analyzes it and brings back the answer. Right. So you don't need to use any prompts, you don't need to know any technology behind you. Just simple make photo, click send. Right,

Speaker A: exactly. So in the second case that I mentioned to you, like the app for uh, taking care of plants at home, uh, it works differently because it's not only providing me the name of the plant, but it also provide me the entire care, uh, plan for the plant and it also implements it as a schedule in the app. So it shows me the reminders where should I put uh, a water there or uh, when should I take care of the plants. So my plants are right now pretty awesome after a couple of uh, even years of using this app. Uh, uh, but yeah, it's not just a prompt. Probably I could do the same with ChatGPT or something else, but I wouldn't have these functionalities of reminders, et cetera. And now I have all of my plants in one place.

Speaker B: Yeah. So convenience. Right. And basically your laziness to use it instead of prompting ChatGPT has won and you paid for it.

Speaker A: Yeah. So what do you think? You know, like there's a bunch of other examples that we are going through today. Uh, for sure. But why do you think AI uh wrappers became so popular right now? Since you know, people can use ChatGPT or Gemini or Cloth or something else to do exactly the same as they do with the Arppers, but still those Swapper are pretty popular. Bunch of people are creating them and they are creating them usually pretty fast. In a matter of days or weeks, they're Publishing the app. And some of them are making shit lot of money. Like

Speaker B: uh,

Speaker A: hundreds of thousands or ten of thousands per month. Uh, I think that the biggest are uh, right now like 10 million per year or something like that.

Speaker B: Yeah. Crazy right? Um, well I believe you know people who developed this, they just wanted to create something on their own. And since AI become a thing and somebody realized that you don't need to build the whole technology from scratch, you just need to solve specific problem, it became much easier these days to basically build a product around it and start selling it. Yeah. So I believe you know this, this growth of popularity of Arppers is at its beginning. Right. Because we will see probably more and more tools that will enable you to ship AI wrappers even faster. Right. Today we're going to talk about few of them but in general I believe you know some of people who create this, I believe may fall into this get rich quick scam as maybe dropshipping used to be. Um, I've seen so many ads at the time of courses of people who were trying to sell me the idea that I don't need to own the products, I don't need to store them, I just need to organize you know, the shipment from the vendor and basically build the uh, front end, layer the marketing around it and sell it. You know AI wrapper in theory can work similar. You, you don't own the technology, you just utilize it and basically you need to be a good salesman to provide it to the users who, who need it.

Speaker A: You have a product manager. We ah, long of experience, a years of experience. Don't you feel or think that this sounds kind of like a cheating.

Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like cheating but if people like to use it and you are one of them, why not right?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: The big difference between um, I would say good AI wrapper and bad a wrapper wrapper is the question is if it really solves a problem, if there is a friction. Let's say I hate prompting ChatGPT for certain purpose. So, so I would really like to click one button and have the same effect. Right. This is a good example. The bad example is when you basically mitigate um, an app or copy it um and selling scam. Right. And you don't mention even that you are using the AI. You can rebrand the tool and start um, selling it with the payment wall to the same people try to kind of based on their, the fact that they may be naive or maybe they are not aware that they are existing app or just ChatGPT who can do the same. Right. So probably you know this is a thin line between those two. But in general like why not? If you bring the value to the table, why not? I think it's not cheating then.

Speaker A: Okay, so, so it's also uh, fits into my theory that building products becoming easier than, than ever right now with the tools that we have. Um, okay, so what will be the future of it? Yeah, like, like uh, don't you think that uh, simply OpenAI or Google or Meta or Anthropic, whoever who is owning the technology that is behind it will sooner or later start building their own uh, maybe not a wrapper but native solutions that are you know, solving these small problems that users have.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. Because uh, from that perspective we can assume that uh, market for each of those solutions are getting smaller and smaller because all big LLM models basically start providing more features. The good example is uh, chatgpt at the beginning didn't have uh, a functionality to upload your PDF file and uh, ask questions and you know, get the information from it. So they were created multiple companies that basically provided you solution for how upload your PDF and uh, ask questions. Right. The good example is uh pdfchat.com and I've been using it as well at the beginning and apparently they made 10 millions of dollars a year on um, just providing this functionality. And the funny thing is people still use it because probably it's convenient for them and I think they've built on the top of it more features and they basically become a platform instead of just being a wrapper. So to answer your question, what's the future of them? I think you know, it's a good way to maybe build your proof of concept, the mvp right ship fast, something that solves very specific problem. But if you want start building something more advanced, something that will become a platform with uh, you know, with wide range of use, then you probably will disappear.

Speaker A: So it's um, pretty similar to the model that let's say AWS has. They are providing whole different infrastructure for building websites, web apps, et cetera. But they are not building so many apps on their own. So they are not trying to replace the Internet, but they are trying to provide the solutions for other builders, provide the infrastructure and they're making a lot of money on that. And the same is with the AI models like OpenAI or Google or someone else who is also providing the infrastructure for other people to use it and to of course pay for it to the uh, proprietary uh, owner of this, of this technology. And in terms of the future and in terms of the usage or the market for this kind of app, I've read somewhere that for now it's like the, let's say end of 2025, like October. End of October. Right now there's less than 10% of people who are using AI from time to time. So still more than 90% of people among whom there is like a, let's say 70% who are using Internet, they are not using AI at all. So for those people, these kind of solutions might be some kind of, you know, the, the, the best way to start using AI, even if they are not aware that the AI is somewhere there behind.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like on the top of my head, I see many features that my mom would like to use because she's not very fluent with prompting. ChatGPT. Right. So I can build wrappers for her for, you know, I don't know, doing shopping, you know, maybe, maybe other things as well. So. Yeah, you know, at the beginning when Internet become a thing, less than 1% of population in the world were using it. Right. Right now it's totally different. Today only about 11% of people worldwide, um, are using AI and aware of its capabilities. Right. That gives us around 89% of population of the world that still don't know about AI as much as we do, for example. So from our perspective, you know, it may look silly, right? Why not use ChatGPT? But I guess for many certain cases, people would love to have something simple, you know, that does literally one job.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's also about the prompting that you mentioned that, um, you know, prompting is a skill. It's still a skill. Yeah. Like you, if you want to have a great results with AI, you need to be good at prompting, prompting, or prompt engineering. Uh, and people are lazy and they don't want to learn new things. So whenever we provide them solutions, that is a shortcut to achieve the same goal. They choose the shortcut. They would even pay a few dollars for that shortcut instead of just, uh, making this effort and learning new stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah. And talking about paying a few dollars. Let's see some examples of the successful AI wrappers. So, uh, there is a company, they made $6 million only, uh, by wrapping an existing AI. And their niche is student essays. Right. So you have a support to write a beautiful essay. You can do literally the same with ChatGPT, but I guess, uh, they have more sophisticated agent behind it that is trained and provides better results. Right. Let's take Another example, um, Tinder replies. You know, there are so many people who are using dating apps, they don't know what to respond to or

Speaker A: how to be successful when responding.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. You know, take a Look at this. $270,000 a year made on um, the AI that literally just giving you an answer to the conversation. I didn't try it by myself but I don't need it. But so you know, those are just few examples. Right? Take uh, a Look at this. Cal AI calorie tracker that is literally built on existing GPT. Uh makes 12 million a year. RIS GPT dating coach built on top of OpenAI GPT makes 1 million a year. Right. You know, these are just few of the wave of GPT wrappers. And you know, if you are struggling with building a new innovative technology, let's just ask ourselves a question. If it's still worth to try to build something innovative. Right. If you can see such, you know, companies, they literally make millions uh, by wrapping AI. What do you think?

Speaker A: Yeah, this is something that is a huge opportunity right now. Uh, but I am not sure if this is something that will stay with us for long still. I think that there will be a bunch of uh, products that will be popping up uh, like this, uh, from time to time. But the number of problems that could be solved that way, I think it's finite. And I believe that uh, at some point people will realize that those are just the wrappers and they are not worth to be paid for. Uh, or maybe there will be a lot of competitors and the prices were going down and down to the point where it not be profitable anymore. And uh, at some point the entire bubble will uh, pop up or uh, collapsed.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's the thing. You know, when I search on forums, uh, like Reddit and stuff, you know, we can see so many new ideas, so many new AI wrappers. So it looks like there are actually more people who are building a wrappers than people who are literally using it and paying for it. Right. So if you can build something literally in 24 hours, the competition will do exactly the same. Right. So the biggest challenge is not to build, is to sell it, to ship it to people. Right.

Speaker A: And to uh, have a distribution to ship it to as many people as possible to convince as many people as possible to actually pay you for that. And I think that a good sign of the uh, of the bubble that this is probably some kind of the bubble or maybe, or maybe not for now it's a huge opportunity. But I believe that at some Point it will became sort of a bubble. Uh, that's my opinion. I can be wrong of course. I believe that the good sign for that is that there is bunch of online course curses uh, of how to build your own AI wrapper. There are some tools that are allowing you to build your own wrapper in a few hours or something like this and to ship it and to start selling, selling it. Uh, which is actually showing that those products could be pretty easily copied by others. Um, at least the basic one, the most simplest one. But some of the advanced products as you mentioned, the products that offer something that is way beyond just the AI wrapping, just adding some default prompts to some AI model in the background like platforms that are built on the top of these wrappers, uh, that might be something uh, that will uh, stick, stay with us for longer and that will became smaller later. A uh, pretty nice product. Uh,

Speaker B: yeah. But again you know, API cost is zero. The distribution cost is everything. Right. Stop coding, start selling. That's probably the thing we should be doing. And you know, if you've built something in a weekend now, how you get paid for it and how to check actually if people want it. Right.

Speaker A: Any good ideas on that? How to check or maybe how do you check what people want before you start building? Do you have any ideas on that?

Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's probably, you know the matter of building something that is even uh, simpler than AI wrapper and start selling it before you built it. Right.

Speaker A: It's like a landing page.

Speaker B: Yeah, you can create a landing page in one of those tools that helps you build. Also those are sometimes AI wrappers who help you build a website and uh, start you know, advertising, you know, spend $20 on, on Meta ads, you know, try different formats and see if at least few people will register. Right. If yes, that might mean that yeah, you should go ahead. If not, probably you should kill it as soon as possible and you know, take care of something more important in life.

Speaker A: Uh, I've seen some other methods that someone was showing that you can actually check the keywords uh, that people are looking for.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And you know you can, you can try with something like AI for uh, recognizing mushrooms. As I mentioned, if this is something that has a lot of traffic, a lot of uh, searchers in Google for example and keyword difficulty is pretty low. That means that there is not so many competitors and pro public, this is the niche that you can address. From the other hand, I think that no uh, one who is building AI wrapper is not counting on building uh, A product that will became unicorn. I'm pretty sure that those people are pretty aware that they are building a small businesses that will make some money in some cases if they will be successful and if they will have a good promotion or some networking effect or some viral effect or whatever, they will make a lot of money. But still it never be the product or the company that will be worth 1 billion of dollar or something like this.

Speaker B: Yeah, probably. But did you know that you actually can buy existing AI wrapper?

Speaker A: Is there any marketplace for that or what?

Speaker B: Yeah, there are a few marketplaces. Uh, actually those marketplaces help you sell any kind of business. But these days you can find a lot of AI wrappers there. The prices there go from a few thousand to even $2 million. And it all depends if you have already an attraction, if you have SEO on the right level so people can find the website easily or it is just code behind it. Probably if it's just a code it might not be worth to buy it. Unless you really believe that you can do something better with it.

Speaker A: That's really interesting. So let's talk about a difference between a good AI wrapper and a battery AI wrapper. So what is the example of AI wrapper that we can uh, honestly call a scam?

Speaker B: You might heard about some scams that basically built the app that looks exactly the same as existing one.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: There was a case about signal apps for example. For some reason Google Play Market were allowed to um, publish such apps. The difference was in the naming, it was the signal, not signal for example. And they were advertising it and many people um, basically registered there and um, they were clicking the ads, they were making money on them and they stole their data. You have to always be um, prepared that something might be a scam. It's not easy to differentiate. Do you have any ideas maybe how to differentiate

Speaker A: different the um, bad application from Goodwill1?

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker A: I think that uh, all of the good wrappers uh, are providing this extra value. They are not just the uh, proxy, uh, to chatgpt or something else behind, uh, just provides you more value. And I think that the lowest level of the value is just the structurized uh, answer and simplified questions. Yeah, so, so when you can add a uh, simple question or even you know just add a picture and the question is already there uh, behind it somewhere. You don't see it but you add the picture, upload it, push the button, you get this structured answer. Then there is some value on the top of the, of the, of the AI itself. Uh, but if this is just, you know, you, you add a picture. I even seen some video that someone was showing how to build an AI wrapper. Uh, I think it was also for some um, pets recognition I believe, or some box recognition, something like this. He showed that you can just simply use this, the basic API to ChatGPT. When you're sending the picture like in the app, user is collecting the, is taking the picture, uploading it, and then it's sent through the API to ChatGPT with some very basic prompt. And the answer as it is uh, from the ChatGPT is directly presented in the user app. So without any structuring or anything. And I believe this is, this is something that I would still call scam. Ah, this is not enough. This is something that if I would take the same picture and put it into ChatGPT and copy paste some kind of prompt like what is this bug here? Uh, then I will get exactly the same answer. But if this answer would be structured some way by this app before it will be presented to the user, it will be simplified or there will be the prompt that will show what the category of uh, of bugs this is. Or there will be some extra questions about it that will be uh, asked to the GPT by default and that will be presented to the user. Then there will be some kind of deep value added on the top of that.

Speaker B: Yeah, and I would add to this maybe you know, something that is integrated with other apps or tools you use, right? For example, you know email, um, writer, right? You need to write a friendly email. You would like some help. Of course you can ask ChatGPT to do this, but in the end you have to copy and paste into the email, right? If you have a plugin that can do this for you, uh, in your mail client, it's added value, right? So it's not only better ux, uh, it's also workflow integration, um, it's uh, very specific, I would say set of prompts that probably would take you a lot of time to figure it out by yourself. Right? But the example of the bad wrapper, let's say about this, right? So this is just something that rebrands the existing AI with a paywall. Uh, did you ever find maybe such example?

Speaker A: I do not have anything like this in my mind right now, but uh, I can imagine that someone would create, uh, let's say uh, as you mentioned before, the fake signal app, they may create a fake chatgpt that they will call GPT Chat. I put it into the App Store or Play Store and ask people to pay for it, uh like few dollars or something and then pay the subscription that would be higher than the GPT subscription at all. So yeah, I can imagine that it's extremely simple to be done and people can fake it, uh, if not with the Google uh, Play or uh, Google Play Store or uh, App Store, uh there are other sources, other stores, app stores than uh, those two uh, that could be used for that and that are not so restricted in terms of uploading or publishing the content there.

Speaker B: Okay, but what do you think about um, the platforms that offer you to image or video generation and use actually models that sometimes are not available yet in certain regions of world. Right. For example ArtList IO uses uh, Sora 2. It hasn't been available in uh, many countries before but if you paid for it through their paywall you could use it.

Speaker A: I believe it was Italy at some point they were. Or ChatGPT was blocked at the beginning and I don't know what the status is right now, but I remember the numbers that show how much money VPNs making in Italy was like skyrocketing in that map. So people shown that there is a demand for that and they were ready to pay for VPN to actually use the same technology that was available uh in other countries.

Speaker B: Router. But again this kind of solution has probably very short period of life because sooner, sooner it will change, right? And you'll be able to use it directly at the source.

Speaker A: The lifetime of these products in most cases will be or is already pretty short for one reason because some of the wrappers are just you know, uh, allowing access to some tools that are not available in some region. And as soon as they will be available in this region those tools may, those, those wrappers may not be as useful as they used to be. Another thing is the uh competition. Since it's pretty easy to be built, there will be more and more people, more and more companies that will be investing into it and building more and more wrappers. So uh, even if someone had the traction at the beginning, their users will migrate to someone who is offering better prices or better products. So that's something that will shorten the lifetime of this kind of platform. Also the progress of the models behind those platforms are also implementing it inside uh, them like for example picture generation or video generation or uh, uh, some other things. Even for us right now it's obvious that you can upload the picture uh to chatgpt and you can ask the chat what is their multimodality. I Remember a year ago I was recording the episode uh, here when we were discussing that the multimodal modality is something like oh, it will be awesome, it will be soon here. It will be great for now. It's like a, it's obvious that you can do this.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. You know There are over 35,000 of AI rappers companies around uh, the world right now and

Speaker A: not so many. I thought it's

Speaker B: not so many. Yeah. But hundreds of them are being created on probably weekly basis.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: The good question is like are there still any problems, any ideas that hasn't been really addressed by a rappers?

Speaker A: If there is only like 35,000 then I think, I think still there is a bunch of problems that could be solved uh, by these kind of solutions. I'm not sure if all of the problems that could be solved are worth to be solved and are worth to be paid for. Uh, but still uh, I think that m our imagination is the only limit right now for anyone like us who are using AI on a daily basis. Whatever you are using ChatGPT or Gemini, let's say I recently used a lot of GPT for uh, talking about some legal documentation that I had to sign or I just needed to understand or I just needed to check what's in there and what I should pay attention to the most. Even building a wrapper that will be doing exactly the same that will allow user to upload the document and will point out the most important things that the users should pay attention to like with some quotes and other stuff. This is actually pretty simple prompting to the A.I. uh, that could be uh, built into this kind of wrapper and that could be a huge thing for many, many of users. Like still remember only 9 or 10% of people are using AI nowadays and 90% of Internet users are not using AI at all. So it's like a huge number of people, like a few billion of people who are not aware of the AI capabilities who have these exact problems that you are solving with AI. So whatever problem you are solving with AI, that might be an opportunity to build an AI wrapper for people who are not using AI, but to have exactly the same problem.

Speaker B: Yeah, but I believe the key thing is ah question. If the users are already searching for the solution, right. They might not be using AI for

Speaker A: it,

Speaker B: but they are searching for the solution and you can, you can find it out. Um, and the question is if they will be willing to pay a fee if the problem they are dealing with is painful enough to pay for it or to pay for A solution. Right. And if that can't be solved with very simple prompt engineering in general, uh, GPT, uh, chats. Right.

Speaker A: I wouldn't completely agree with the last one as I said still 90% of people are not using GPT and they're not prompting, they are not aware what the prompting is. So like you know like 5, 6, 7 billion of people are your potential user base for anything that you are using prompting for. Yeah. So still, at least for some time, that might be an opportunity to make some money.

Speaker B: Yeah, to make some money now. Right. But if you think about longer future, you need to have a plan in place how to transform this simple AI wrapper into something bigger, into a platform or maybe you know, some different kind of service that will help people differently than only um, utilizes the capabilities of existing AI.

Speaker A: Or you just can build another wrapper.

Speaker B: Yeah, that can be the way of life. Right? Just building wrappers

Speaker A: at least for some time. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that this gold rush will uh, soon, later, uh, end uh, but for the next couple of months or years, rare months than years, I believe that there's a lot of opportunities for people to make money on very uh, simple software that is utilizing AI in the background.

Speaker B: You know one thing actually scares me like the question is, so if we won't end up with just AI, ah, wrappers everywhere, so people won't be building something you know, really innovative, they will be just using you know, wrapper around wrapper, built in wrapper. So what about quality of you know um, features, you know, the security as well and stuff that is around AI wrappers? What do you think?

Speaker A: Quality is one thing and the security is uh, another thing. Like uh, I'm pretty sure that most of these apps that are right there are not secure enough. Especially those apps that are, that people uploading their documents, PDFs, apps, other stuff that very often ah, are uh, things uh, that shouldn't leak anywhere. That's scary. That's crazy. So for you as a user, please consider it a few times before you upload any documents to any kind of AI wrapper. Especially when you don't know the company that is behind it or there is no company behind it, et cetera. Even if there is and the company is registered somewhere in the country that you cannot uh, simply reach with your lawyer, uh, it's probably not the best tool to use. Um, so from the security reason definitely this is something that is a huge risk for everyone uh, in terms of the quality because of the competition on this market. If the quality is not the issue right now. It's not the main thing right now. It soon will be like when there will be. And maybe this is another opportunity. If you see any AI wrapper that is there and has a lot of downloads and it's like a paid app and it's not working well and you think that you can create it easily on your own and create it better if you can do this in a week or two, just do it. Just do it. And even start promoting yourself as the alternative for xyz, uh, and try to promote yourself based on the low quality of the other solution. That's a healthy competition, I believe. Another thing that came to my mind is the localization. There is a bunch of things that are, uh, let's say only available in English. And if you are living in another country, uh, even if a bunch of users are using such app, but they're using it only in English, there's a lot of people who don't know this language in this country who can use exactly the same app, but translated or just rebuilt in their native language or, uh, the app that will be localized, like for example, localized to the local regulations or, I don't know, local culture, whatever is there, uh, that you can localize there.

Speaker B: Besides that, what you said, like, you know, um, different language, you know, different specific set of features that your AI wrapper potentially can have. Um, I'm wondering, you know, what can really differentiate you on the market, right? Because if you build something that doesn't have, you know, um, technology that you can patent or, you know, it's so sophisticated nobody can copy it, how you can potentially raise money from the VC or find an investment if you don't have, potentially you don't have anything, you know, that uh, adds the value to the tech world, let's say somehow.

Speaker A: So I'm, I'm basically also an angel investor and I, I'm from time to time investing in startups. So maybe I will answer what I would consider as a good investment in terms of the AI wrapper. And before I answer that, I would say that like 99% of, of this kind of solutions probably is but a good investment idea because like their lifespan is too short. Like only, only the ideas that has the potential to have potential to be, uh, successful products which are, let's say those platforms that are utilizing AI. So they are way more complicated than just simple AI wrappers. Those platforms has some potential to be investable by the VCs or by the angel investors or anyone else. Technology is not an Advantage, uh, the only thing that disadvantages their user base and the uh, user engagement. So if this kind of startup have a lot of users, the users are very engaged uh, into the platform, they're using it on a daily basis, then this kind of setup could monetize those user base. And by user base I right now thinking about hundreds of thousands if not millions of users. Anything below that is not attraction, it's not something that is attractive, uh, especially to big PCs for angel investors, maybe at some early stage, but only if there is a proven traction and if there is the uh, growth strategy that makes sense and that is already proved that with some extra money for marketing will actually grow the user base.

Speaker B: Actually it's not only about the current revenue, let's say and the current traction, but also potential to grow. To

Speaker A: grow. I think it's like

Speaker B: rising

Speaker A: like in any other startup. Not only the air wrappers like this is the, the crucial uh, metrics that investors are looking at.

Speaker B: Do you remember those apps that were popular for very short period of time and they literally had uh, kind of the AI filter that let's say change your photo into the comic version of it, stuff like that. Right. I believe they don't exist anymore. Right.

Speaker A: Uh, probably they do. I think that you think that they are not existing anymore because you have a new smartphone and your smartphone has already built into it. Um, mine too. But I'm pretty sure that there are people who are still using it because they are using some older phones or some, let's say cheaper, uh, phones uh, and that software do not have this kind of uh, solutions. Those are there but not in the mainstream, uh, as they used to be.

Speaker B: I bet they still have millions of users base. We don't know what they do with this data.

Speaker A: That's crazy. That's another thing and as I mentioned before in terms of the security, uh, when we are talking about the security, uh, whenever you're using this kind of app, like be very careful and consider it many times before you upload your photos, photos of your kids or any documents or anything, any information, medical information, whatever into this kind of apps because you never know who is using this data and what those data are used for.

Speaker B: Be careful with anything that we do these days, uh, because AI has such capabilities of use your data in the wrong way, you know, to steal from you something and stuff like that. Right. And I'm sure there are AI wrappers who also help people scam other people, but we don't want to bring examples here.

Speaker A: Yeah, you need to be Careful with any apps that you're using right now. Since, uh, like I've mentioned it a couple of times in the previous episode, that software, building software is cheaper than it used to be. So right now creating a new app, new software, uh, is not an obstacle for people who have bad intentions to actually cheat on you or scam you or whatever. Software is not a limitation right now for them. So you need to be way more aware than you used to be even a year or two years ago. Because, uh, there is no, uh, this cost barrier for building something that will help those kind of criminals, uh, to actually make you hurt one way or another.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, maybe just switching topic a little bit. I'm wondering if for people who would like to start developing something, you know, they maybe are not professional engineers, but they have an idea. Do you think that building an AI wrapper would be a good starting point for somebody who hasn't built anything yet? Uh, maybe didn't even have hands, um, on experience with coding, um, but can use tools that help you code things basically without that knowledge?

Speaker A: Uh, this is a tough question because I would say that with the even basic vibe coding skills, uh, and the tools that you mentioned that are there, uh, people can build something that works. People can build something that probably could be even distributed, published and other people can use and pay for. For people who has no experience in programming, uh, that will take more time than for. Let's say people have at least, uh, a little bit of experience in coding, um, but people who don't know what they are doing when building this kind of app, let's call it by the name, uh, they need to be very careful because it might be very easy to release something that will be very insecure. And uh, until you are doing something that is like, uh, let's say plant recognition, not mushroom recognition, but plant recognition stuff or box recognition. This is something that will be pretty hard to hurt anyone, even if their plant pictures or their box pictures will, I don't know, leak to the Internet or something.

Speaker B: But it theoretically can be painful, uh, for your budget, right. If you want secure it, right, as a developer and people will be taking an advantage of it. You can lose a lot of money

Speaker A: on the API calls and tokens on phone calls. I think I

Speaker B: heard such stories

Speaker A: that could also happen. I think that right now that the technology, uh, is brought to the masses, like people can use. It can use some kind of things. But I still believe that people who have some experience in coding and programming, uh, they have a huge advantage over those who don't have

Speaker B: maybe let's wrap it up. You don't need to build an LLM. Um, you just need to solve a tiny job.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And do it better than open LLMs. Um, ship fast, try ideas and if it doesn't bring you money, probably kill it fast as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, like be brave and don't, don't hesitate to test new things and try to figure out the ways to test it as fast as possible. But still, if you are thinking or uh, considering to building something that will be long lasting business, not just, you know, one time shot where that will bring you some money or maybe you can do a few one time shows, collect some money and then you should think about building a platform. Not just the AI wrapper.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But for a platform you need more budget, you probably need to hire more people, uh, who will help you with this. Of course you can hire us for that, uh, as well. Maybe not for AI wrappers because this is something that's uh, too small for us and too quick. Uh, but for building a platform that is utilizing AI, definitely this is something that we have a bunch of experience with. Uh, so if you need any help with that, don't hesitate to contact us. I believe that we are at the edge of the new, uh, if not the revolution and if not the bubble, I think we can call it the evolution of software development. In one of the previous episodes or one of the episodes from the beginning of this year, uh, I was sharing my thoughts about uh, the change of the paradigm, uh, of software development. And in that episode I was exactly, uh, talking about how the software development process is speeding up and what are the consequences of that. And now we see it in the action like we already see that people are building this kind of the apps in 24 hours or let's say in one week or one weekend over the weekend. And they are making a lot of money on this app created in a few days.

Speaker B: Yeah, actually that whole conversation made me think that maybe I would like to build an AR rapper in 24 hours and just check it if it's true.

Speaker A: Well, you know, me too. I think that maybe the next episode will be already about our experiences and how much money we made on building.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or we will be broadcasting from the jail because we did something wrong.

Speaker A: Whoops. Hopefully not. Hopefully not.

Speaker B: And people call this app a scam.

Speaker A: Hopefully not as well. Okay, so with this, uh, good thoughts at the end of this episode, uh, thank you for watching us. Thank you for being with us. Of course, uh, subscribe if you like, uh, what you see and of course thumbs up. Tell us in the comments if you are using any AI wrappers or if you already built any AI wrappers on your own. We, uh, would love to listen to your stories and of course I would like to listen to your thoughts on what do you think about what's happening right now in the uh, it.

Speaker B: Make sure to share it with somebody who needs to build AI wrapper today.

Speaker A: Definitely. Thank you and see you in the next episodes.