PowerWomen Speak with Jessica Hall

Speaker A: Hello, I'm Tanuja Randery, founder of Power Women Network, a network that's committed to developing the next generation of female talent and advancing women in leadership. Welcome to series seven, episode two, 2026, of Power Women Speak, a, uh, podcast about what it takes to be successful as a woman in business. We will be sharing career tips and tricks from our network of inspiring women leaders and discuss what needs to be done to address the gender problem in business. I'm delighted to be speaking today with Jess Hall, a, uh, senior technology and transformation executive with nearly two decades of experience building and scaling digital platforms used by millions of people every day. Most recently, Chief Product Officer, JustEatTakeaway.com, she led a global organization spanning product analytics, UX research and technical program management across 17 international markets, driving the platform's evolution into a broader digital high street for everyday convenience. Jess has also been at the forefront of applied AI and consumer businesses for years, including, and I'm sure we'll get into it, leading the deployment of the first autonomous wheel legged delivery robots in Europe. Her work on embedding AI into complex organizations, not only as an experiment, but as a genuine driver of decision making and execution has been cited in HBR and and in the Octopus Organization, which is a book that a couple of fabulous Amazonians have just written, Phil labrune and Jana Werner. Uh, the work, though she describes as the most significant, is the early career program she built from scratch at Jet, designed without degree requirements and hiring entirely on potential, three cohorts in over 52% of each intake are women. 95% graduate into full time roles and participants include career switches from nursing, teaching and other forms of life. In a sector that's historically excluded women without math backgrounds. She used her platform to open a different door. Before, Jess led senior leadership roles at Tesco Argos, Sainsbury's leading large scale digital transformation in complex retail environments. She speaks on AI agenda, commerce, organizational transformation, and of course, building talent pipelines and then outside work. Jess is a mother of two, a tennis player, runner, and a reader with an ambitious annual book, Target. And no apologies for it, Jess. Wow, I can barely keep up. That's phenomenal. I'd love to have. I'd love to start the podcast actually. And thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Um, and welcome to Power Women Speak.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here and having this conversation with you.

Speaker A: Well, look, I always start our podcast with trying to understand some of these early influences in, um, in Your life, you know, it could have been people or events, um, and how did they impact your choices? I mean, because you obviously followed a career into consumer goods and retail. And I'm kind of keen to kind of connect the dots, uh, on how that all came about.

Speaker B: I mean, there's a theme, I think, with this, um, podcast that a few guests have touched on, where really we look to the earliest stages of our lives and we are so shaped by our parents. And I'm no different. Um, I grew up with parents who did a very different job from what I do today, um, and hadn't been to university, but who had a really strong, um, ethos around education being incredibly important, um, and worth work ethic as well. Um, encouraging me to do, you know, Saturday jobs and things like that, um, and holding me to account, you know, um, there was absolutely no way that my mum would let me phone in sick for work unless I was really, really genuinely sick, um, because she knew, you know, what it's like as a manager to have to rearrange your team and things like that. So teaching me that work ethic, um, and the importance of education was really important and has certainly shaped me. But I think there's a couple of other threads in there as well. I happened to go to three different secondary schools, um, and, uh, not because I got kicked out, just to be clear, but because I wanted to study different things and move around. And so I also learned to step into a new environment, especially at an age, teenage years, where you want to fit in and conform but you don't necessarily know how. Um, and doing that three different times, M. I think also helped me to develop resilience and a bit of knowing who I am and um, who I want to be and learning about myself at that age. So when I did go off to university, I was ready for the challenge. Um, and it's something that I've taken with me throughout my career. This kind of. This reliance on myself, this resilience and curiosity and figuring out the situation you find yourself in and how to make it work for you.

Speaker A: I love that, by the way. I. You're so right about the patterns. You see, I just did a little, uh, pod I just published and you might have seen it just. But I went back 12 podcasts, um, stuck them into Claude, which I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit, and then got this phenomenal, you know, summary. And you're so right. There are like three or four themes, um, that are then an education, by the way, um, the early Focus about, of parents, you know, um, to educate. Certainly for me was, was a big deal. And tell me what you went to university. What did you study at uni?

Speaker B: Um, so I studied business. I did international commerce. I, um, had the opportunity to study abroad which also was a re. Was another moment where I went on my own to France. I actually went to Nice, which was um, a great, a great place to be. Um, quite a different experience from being in Birmingham. Um, but um, you know, again, learning a different culture, like fueling that curiosity in me and I absolutely loved it. Um, and I've actually taken that through, um, my, my career having spent time in Bangalore as a software developer, um, and uh, various other travels along the way. But I think what's important to point out here is I did a business degree. I was really interested in just learning breadth. Another theme for me, um, I didn't do maths at A level I couldn't have done computer science. But I also didn't really understand what it was or um, how to go into this field. I had done an ICT A level which sounds a little bit, um, naughty now, but at the time felt like I was doing something technical. Um, and so me being in this career now, I do, I do have an appreciation of what it takes to break into a technical career when you don't have a, um, typical background. And as a result my career has kind of moved me around the industry. I work in tech. I'm not the most technical person. Um, but I think that's in some ways a superpower.

Speaker A: I think it is actually. And I. You raise a couple of things that I think are so relevant. The first is, I think just around mobility in general now, whether it's the three secondary schools or Nice or as you say, India and, or different, you know, trying different businesses, different functions. I think mobility is so important now. Not everybody, you know, obviously has the opportunity or ability or maybe just the circumstances of being able to be mobile. But even if you're in one place, I think trying different things is really critical. So I want to come back to this because I'd love to get your sense on how you made those choices. And then I think the other thing you're saying, which is really spot on, is how do we in the tech business, both of us, make this business attractive to people? Um, I think now it's naturally happening, but even now, right, I mean people think it's all about coding and it's all about this and it's all about that and actually it's marketing. It's legal, it's finance, it's product. Right. It's all of the above. So you raised two really good points, and I want to come to come to both because I know you've done a lot in this attracting talent into the industry. So, um, on the first, you know, as you thought about some of those choices, how did you make those choices? Did you have people you relied on? Was it sponsors who played a role? Like, help me understand some of those early decisions and how you. How you. Yeah. How you made them?

Speaker B: Um, yeah. So I'd love to be able to say that I had a great framework and I. Analytical. Absolutely wasn't. And some of it was forced upon me and some of it was me taking opportunities. That's the truth. And I do feel it's really important to be truthful about, uh, these things, because when we look back on our careers, there are all these threads that come through, but during the time that we're making the decisions, it's not always clear. Um, so actually, at university, the side story is that when I first went, I did business and French, but I didn't really enjoy French history and some of the elements of the French part of the course. And I loved the business side. So after my first year, I wanted to give up French. And so I went to see, um, my tutor and explain the situation. And I guess, um, at the time I didn't realize the favor that he was doing for me, but he said, well, okay, you can do that, you can give up French, but you have to go on the international program and you have to go and do a year in France anyway. But you don't have to study in French if you don't want to. I. And I did a bit of both. Um, and so I went off and did it. Um, so David Bailey, my tutor, did me a favor there because I learned so much that year. And I think whilst I didn't enjoy the French, I also was afraid, I think, to go, um, and live in another country and find an apartment and figure it all out back, open a bank account. All these things that you do when you move abroad. Um, but it was a great experience and it's part of igniting a kind of love of travel. When I started my career, I actually applied to Tesco on their graduate scheme. And this is it. During the days when pretty much, well, all of their engineering and for most businesses, a lot of it was offshored in India and other areas. And so the only people that were writing code in Tesco at the time were In Bangalore. So part of the program was that you would go and live out there and learn and write code. I couldn't write any code so I had to learn pretty quickly, um, and go out there. And again that was actually part of what attracted me to the, to the program, um, because I was going to get this great opportunity and I subsequently spent lots of time traveling around. What was harder was when I went to Argos, I had a job in Milton Keynes. So if you're listening and you're not based in the UK, it's about an hour and 25 minute drive from my house to my office then. And I had um, two young children. I'd actually left Tesco while I was on maternity leave with my second child. Um, both of them in nursery. Um, and any mums who are listening will know the juggle of like dropping them off, heading off. And then I can tell you if you live in the UK, being on the M1 at rush hour means you're in a traffic jam and you're just watching the time tick down until you can get to the nursery on time, hopefully. And I tell this story because actually that was much harder to fit into life, um, than some of the international assignments where things are set up for you and made a bit easier for you. But it was a great opportunity for me and I'm a believer in if the opportunity is great, take the opportunity and figure out what it's going to take to make it work. And I, I know that I heard that advice from people and I was a bit skeptical when I was younger. I would say, well, if you've got the money to pay for a nanny or you can do this on the other, then it's fine for you to give that advice out. But that's not my reality. That wasn't my reality then. Um, and I think it's not necessarily about money that does make things easier, it does give you more choices but you can find a way if you want to do it. And you also have to build, um, a support network around you that can help to get there. I have great friends who are super helpful. Um, one of my friends said she'll be my emergency contact at the nursery and therefore allowed to pick up my children if there's a disaster situation and I can't get there. But also I've got a fantastic husband who is really happy to support me in my career. And I have to say I'm not the one who has to explain how to use the washing machine or the dishwasher or the iron, because he does it all. And he also knows what uniform the kids are supposed to wear each day better than I do.

Speaker A: I think that's so marvelous. By the way, again, a thread I pick up a lot in these conversations I've had. And you, you know, you, you go and you reflect on our partners, mine as well as, you know, always been the stay home dad. And frankly he was the one doing the coffee runs and all the other stuff in the mornings. Um, and it couldn't have gone better, but it did take balancing on both sides to make it work. And I think the point you raise about the support network is so critical. Um, you cannot do these things on your own. It really. And you're right, I don't think it's just about the money because even if you had the money and you could get a nanny, you not still be in a place where you feel okay to be able to do and stretch yourself to the level. You have to stretch yourself.

Speaker B: Completely agree that the balance is the key, but I think it's about knowing yourself and what drives you, what makes you at your best, what you want from life and then figuring out how to satisfy those needs. And I encourage people that ask me for advice to look at what success would be on their own terms. Um, um, it doesn't have to be the big title or the big business. It has to be the thing that lights the fire in you and that you feel is worth spending your time on.

Speaker A: Spot on, as we say. Plus one, certainly. Um, listen, I want, I want, why Tesco? I'm curious. So you, you go off, you do this fabulous international degree, by the way, and, and, and, and well done, David Bell, for being challenging to you at that time. Because we don't need mentors who just go, of course, you're right. And just a shoulder to cry on. Um, why Tesco and Argos and Sainsbury's, like what was it about consumer goods and retail?

Speaker B: The absolute core of, is that, core of it is that I love these consumer facing businesses and brands. I think that, um, in fact, for a long time I was, I was sort of ashamed to say it because it felt like it was a status thing, but it's true. I love putting technology in the hands of millions of people and these are brands that let me do that. Ah. Um, during my time at Tesco, I did all kinds of different roles, which was an amazing grounding for my career. But you know, when I was at Tesco, um, you know, one of the things I led on was launching the first ever club card app. Putting that technology into the hands of tens of millions of customers in the UK alone, um, and getting to work on the world's biggest loyalty uh, scheme was just you know, scale that um, I could only dream of when I was thinking about my career. Um, so Tesco for me was a perfect fit. Um, and from there to Argos it was a very, very different business, um, uh, a general merchandise rather than a ah, grocer. Um, but there was lots of similarities. The reason I went to Argos was because whilst I'd had lots of technical elements to my career and I'd done various kind of things at Tesco, towards the end of my time there I'd been doing reorganizing, um, and I'd actually worked as a chief of staff for the customer department. So setting up an office in Poland, bringing in best practice and um, managing the budgets and all this kind of stuff and finally reorgang the department to a more efficient, more agile way of working. Argos hired me for the very same reason to bring in some of that um, program management and the elements that they needed to get the business going. Um, and it was interesting because it was already owned by Sainsbury's at the time, but operating as separate businesses. Um, and very quickly, um, I actually ended up uh, working with the Sainsbury's Group CIO on how to bring Argos and Sainsbury's together um, as one product and tech team. And I love that kind of stuff. Figuring out how to bring different cultures together, different ways of working, even different office locations. And um, you know, people sort of hold the badge of honor of the brand that they work for. And how do you make that into one um, team? It was a great, great piece of work for me. Um, and uh, that's part of what's led me to where I am today.

Speaker A: I love that there's such a good thread through all of that. I mean one technology, two product. But it sounds like you've not only moved companies um, and geographies, you've also been, you know, focusing on different muscle, um, or skill sets within those orgs. So it's not just tech or only software development. I love the chief of staff, the, you know, the integration aspect as well. Um, as you reflect on some of those um, shifts, um, you know, I'm sure you, you know, had moments of oh my God, no, I couldn't possibly do that. Uh, and I know we, we still do that to ourselves. Um, how did those moments, you know, pan out like how did you. How did you work your way through those situations? Um, you know, maybe. Maybe even share one where. Didn't quite go to plan.

Speaker B: I. I would say that, um, in every role, there are ups and downs. So even when you love it and you think it's great, there are still really difficult moments. Um, I'm a believer in lifelong learning, which is pretty cheesy, but it's true. I am never happier than when faced with a challenge that's gonna push me to learn something, be better, or actually sometimes unlearn something enough. I've had plenty of challenges. Um, but when I think back to earlier in my career, um, I did a job, um, that I didn't enjoy very much, but it was part of me proving or that I could do anything. I was in that stage where I wanted to build my career. And, um, so I was like, okay, well, if that's what it takes, then I'll go and do that one and I'll learn that piece. And, um, it just didn't suit me very well. Um, but I also didn't really understand all of the elements of doing the job well, um, in that I was managing a team of people who are really, really different from me, and I hadn't fully taken the time to understand that. So some of the feedback that I got was really, really tough to hear. And it actually made me question even my inner voice of what am I good at and what are my skills? Because I'm even hearing that I was in a moment where, um, five minutes before this feedback was given to me, if you'd asked me, like, what are you good at, Jess? I would have said this, this, and this. And then I got this feedback and I thought, oh, my goodness. Well, I can't even say that anymore. And with that, there was a period of reflection for me on how. How has this happened? How have I got myself into this situation where I haven't really motivated people? Um, I've gone after something I think is important and I think will improve things, but without really taking them on the journey. Um, but I found it really devastating. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It was devastating feedback for me. It really, really affected me. And I. With the benefit of hindsight, I can. I can tell you that's what happened. But in the moment, I really had to just keep showing up. I just had to keep saying to myself, each day, I'm going to show up, I'm going to get better, I'm going to learn. And I had to dig deep on my Resilience, um, to get there. But I did. And, um, now I can look back at it and I can describe it, but it took me quite a long time to build back that confidence that these are the skills I have. They were just very misdirected in that scenario. Um, and it's not about who's right or wrong. It was just about perspective. And it was a huge, huge lesson for me that I've taken through my career. I try really hard now to make sure that I do take those perspectives, because we all know when we're in our flow or we're really excited about doing something, we. Well, I certainly can go kind of headlong into, like, let's just move. Let's get stuff done. And taking that step back and, you know, making sure that, you know, people are on the journey, because that is important. The technology is really important. Um, and that's getting ever more, um, part of the story. But your team, the people, how motivated they are, how much purpose they find in the work, and basically how happy they are is directly correlated to how well they do, um, at their job and how fun it is to be part of the team.

Speaker A: Yes. Thank you for sharing that. I think, um, by the way, I think, you know, we all have had that experience, and you do emerge much stronger. Um, you know, if you're willing to, as you say, listen, stick to it, dig deep. I mean, sometimes you. You kind of have to move on. Right? I mean, it's not the perfect one and you just move on, but it sounds like you really stuck in there and made it work. Somebody once told me, and I think you've heard me say this about, you know, calibrating feedback versus catastrophizing about, you know, what, why, how could this possibly be? I'm so great. Um, but the fact that you did that, I think, um, and then emerged much stronger, and you're still thinking about it when you, you know, go to the next role, in the next role. Because it's true. Our superpowers can also be the things that, you know, potentially are the bottlenecks to others being highly successful. Right. But. But again, you can give up on your superpowers, use it to make them stronger, um, by surrounding yourself with all the other skills that you don't have. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. That I really, really believe in. I'm. I'm not perfect or amazing, um, at, uh, everything, and I never will be. And I'm not even going to try and be. Um, you bring the people around you that you need, and for me that's about building a really strong team that's got the skill set. You know, I am not a UX specialist. I lead UX at Just Eat Takeaway. But I have a fantastic UX team and a fantastic research team who know research methods and all of the things that they need to know. And I don't know that very well. I can guide, but they're the experts. But it goes broader than that and that's, you know, advice for people. Listening is also in the network that you build, in the people that you go to for advice, um, in the people you bounce ideas off. Um, I've got lots of different people with lots of different skill sets depending on the problem I'm tackling. Um, and that's really helpful as well.

Speaker A: I like that. I know we all talk about this, you know, group of advisors you go to and they change, obviously during your career. Um, let me ask you something. I mean you've obviously talked about people that have challenged you in your career. Um, clearly there were many who propelled you forward. Um, you know, as we say, opening the doors, creating those opportunities that get you to the next role. Um, I don't know, maybe talk a bit about one of those situations and um, sort of people who advanced your career and, you know, maybe reflect a bit on kind of what it was that made that happen or come about.

Speaker B: Um, yeah. Ah, I'm going to talk about one of my former managers and still very good friend to this day, um, Gareth. Because he, he was my manager when I was, uh, did this chief of staff role. It was for him. And um, honestly I didn't really know what a chief of staff was before. He, um, said, do you want to come and do this role? It was created for me. We didn't have them really in Tesco at the time, so it was all very new. M. And I think it's also important to say he was from a startup background and he'd come into Tesco via a different way. So he had a very entrepreneurial mindset and a different way of approaching things, which very much, you know, how do we make things happen rather than what do the rules allow us to do? Um, and so creating this role for me, for one, the, the kind of, the belief in me that I could do that and that I would be good at it, um, kind of spurred me on and it came, you know, quite a long time after, but it came after I'd gone through that, that feedback and I'd rebuilt to the, to the point and also came for me a Turning point in my career where I'd been doing the same kind of work for a bit, and I. I didn't know quite how I was going to change direction. And I'd been thinking about leaving the business then, um, working side by side with him as you do as a chief of staff, I learned so much. And his kind of entrepreneurial mindset just sparked something in me of, okay, this is great. Like, we can solve problems and we can just go and fix things and we can, you know, if we think it's a good idea, let's go and figure out how to make it happen and let's just, you know, come up with the data or whatever it is we need. And he pushed me really hard. I worked really, really hard, but I loved every minute of it. Um, and during the time that I was with him, he was incredibly encouraging as well. Um, I was doing loads of finance work, so I said, okay, well, I think maybe I should just do some SEMA exams. And he was like, yeah, why not? Um, I'll. I'll pay for that. You know, I'll. I'll put it on our budget. So I went and did my management account. Some m. Like basic management accounting. Um, I mean, I was a pivot table pro back then as well. But there was also a couple of moments he really believed in me and he helped me. I had. At that time, I was still suffering from kind of hierarchy, uh, belief in the hierarchy. And he did one say to me in a meeting, you can tell the more senior people that they're wrong. If they're wrong, you don't have to find a nice way to do it or whatever, or accept what they say. You can tell them. You can tell them how the system works or what's going on. And when I tell people that now, I think, goodness me, it makes me sound like an idiot. But the reality is, you get captured by the culture or the hierarchy and you 100%. And I had grown up in that business. I did 11 years there in total. Um, and somebody just reminding me of that was very powerful. I think a lot of the time you get propelled in your career by people who really believe in you and give you the opportunity to grow, but they've absolutely got your back. Um, and most of it's in the tiny, small everyday actions that you see, not the big grand gestures. And you can't see it until time has passed because you. It's a culmination of all of those things. But for me, that was a really strongly formative experience.

Speaker A: I Think that's so wonderful, both as investment in terms of getting your skill set expanded and developed. Right. And leaning in to do that, but I think creating that space for you to speak up. I remember early on in my career, uh, I always say the story like one of the senior directors I worked with, uh, uh, at McKinsey who told me never to speak in these meetings. And, um, thank God I did not listen because, you know, good God. But I think this idea of being able to disagree have. We have a leadership principle at Amazon. You might have come across this, have backbone, disagree and commit. And so we really encourage it, you know, through the mechanisms we have, like the docs that we read and the feedback we can provide. But then we also have this, uh, other leadership principle that says leaders are right a lot, which is they. And it actually refers to surrounding yourself with diverse groups of thought so that you can disconfirm beliefs rather than confirming beliefs. Right. And so I think that's phenomenal. And, uh, clearly Gareth, uh, was absolutely on both directions, leaning in. Um, I love that. I love that. I think sponsorships come from, as you say, working together with people who can see the impact that you can create. Um, now you did mention, um. I was just going to move on to that, actually. You did mention, obviously, your passion, um, for tech from a very early stage. We are going through a very interesting time, more interesting than ever before, I think. Uh, certainly more interesting than anything I've come across. Although I've lived through quite a few different tech things, uh, evolutions. But the world we're in now, with all of the work that's going on, uh, not only with AI, but this new agent takes, um, AI. I think we've all been working with AI for some time, you especially, actually. Um, how are you using this technology today? Like, you know, give me some examples of you as a leader, ah, you as an individual, as a consumer. Um, what are you finding exciting and challenging as well, about the technology?

Speaker B: I think it's an incredible time in the industry. The pace of change is just unreal. And I love that as a leader, I think especially in these moments, um, uh, it's. It is about educating yourself and just trying stuff, you know, trying the tooling, um, and seeing what you can do, um, with the encouragement of others or help from other people. I've been doing quite a lot of vibe coding and figuring out what I can do. But I also think it's really important for the organization and in my role. We, um, have been creating the opportunity for people within the Organization, not just in product, not just in tech, but across the whole organization to utilize the tools, um, and actually to be educated, running, um, workshops about what is Agentic, what is AI, what do I need to know? And creating the ability for people across the organization actually to create their own agents within our workspaces and um, and play with the technology. Because I do really believe it's going to be part of everybody's role. It's no longer going to be confined to product and tech. We're just gonna, we're gonna have different versions of the roles. Things are going to change a lot or a little depending on what you do. But AI will be across all of it. Agentic is going to be across all of it. And I think Agentic is going to be the, an even bigger shift for most businesses. Uh, you know, lots of stuff is coming out about GEO now replacing SEO, but you know, who owns the customer in the future, um, how do they find your products? Right now we optimized lovely AI, sorry, lovely UX for people to feel like compelled to in my case order a pizza or buy something. But in the future we maybe actually just need to be providing an API to uh, um, AI search that's got all of the relevant information because it's not going to be about how you emotionally feel about the product. It's going to be an unemotional agent making those decisions. So we have to really radically rethink it. And I think you can really only do that when you start using the tools and um, figure it out. It's is another version of customer closeness, which is a big topic that I've always talked about. You can only really um, solve the problems well if you understand the problem and yes to your customers. You know, um, I used to ride around London on a bike delivering food. I would speak to customers, I would visit restaurants because I wanted to know what the reality was. I remember working in Leicester Square in a um, fast food restaurant, uh, during lunchtime and like having to manage like the orders in the restaurant, the orders going out to all the delivery services, their own app and like then realizing how challenging that is when customers are talking to you all the time as well. You know those things bring it to life and it's no different for this. We've been using it for long, a long time, but it's just changing so fast that almost that doesn't count for anything because you know, the new tools take us a big step forward every single time.

Speaker A: You've got to figure every day. Yeah, no, it's amazing. And you're, you know, certainly with just eat. But not only, you know, you're, you're in a space as you say, the question about distribution and pricing and how do you reach these customers but then the internal productivity challenges and you know, not only productivity but not efficiency, but getting smarter as well. You know, a better manager, a better coach, you know, I mean there's just so many ways AI ah can transform what we do. I love it. I love that your vibe coding. I, I was recently using Lovable, uh, to create a little website, you know, for our Power Women network. Actually that was quite cool. Um, super easy now compared to you know, what you had to do before. But even just simple things like you know, doing for example 12 podcasts into Claude, you know, and just getting a summary much better written than I could have done entirely on my own, you know, so. And save me just scores of time, just scores of time, which is just incredible. Um, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker B: I agree. I think that one of the things we do have to hold ourselves accountable for though is, is ah, like assessing the stuff that we get from AI because you're right, it's very easy to do. Um, and we can get long outputs from it. And then my question is who's reading that or how are we dealing with that and are we really taking the information in or are we just, you know, it's a bit like the, it's a kind of an analogy of active listening. Are you listening to speak or are you really listening? And with AI, I think there can be a tendency to put stuff out there to have a position but not really know or understand it yourself. And no one else reads it. They just put their own position back with their AI summary of what you've written. So we have to challenge ourselves to make sure we are digging a bit deeper into it.

Speaker A: I think that's, I love that. I really love that. Absolutely. I think there's um, there's so much benefit and yet you're absolutely right with anything right with any kind of new frankly tech or non tech evolution. You know, we as human beings have to absolutely be thinking about the impact of that on ourselves, our teams, our organization, society, um, et cetera. Um, with a few minutes left, um, I have a couple more questions if I may. One, I'd really love to talk a bit about this um, work you were doing. A just takeaway in terms of you know, the whole um, cohorts of, of individuals who are not necessarily from tech finding their way into tech. Tell us a little Bit about that. Like, and you know, what, what have you created there? And um, and how successful has it been?

Speaker B: This is, this is um, in some ways a passion project for me, but it's absolutely grounded in business results. Um, I've always been a strong supporter of women in tech. And I have to be honest, coming through school I didn't really understand that this was an issue. But once I came into the industry and realized, you know, on my graduate scheme I was um, absolutely in the minority, I think there was two women out of 14 grads on my scheme. Um, so it was very immediately obvious to me. And so I've been setting up networks and talking about this for a long time. Now that I'm in a senior position, I have a platform, I want to use it to make change. And that's what this uh, program is all about. I've taken the best bits of the training and the career opportunities that I've had and stuck them into one program and I've tried to lower the bar. So what the program is, is 18 months. It's three six month placements where we rotate the um, the cohort around different skill sets. Um, they might be product, they might be engineering, they might be ux. Um, all of them will do a data analytics placement because I think that's essential. Super. It gives them three placements so it gives them breadth and the opportunity to learn. Um, but most importantly, we're hiring for potential. So you don't need a degree. If you've got one, that's fine, but you don't need one. Um, we're hiring for potential. So if you've taught yourself to code, you can do our coding test and if you can pass it, that you come through our interview process where we'll ask you about how you work, what kind of person you are and those are the people we're trying to hire, the high potential people who are otherwise shut out from.

Speaker A: Yeah, because the CV didn't match.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. Couldn't agree more.

Speaker B: Yeah. Which could so easily have been me in those. You know, if I hadn't gone through that, um, that, that scheme and it's opened up a whole career for me and I, I want to do the same because I know that diverse, uh, pools of talent get better results. Yeah. You know, coming back to understanding the problem, you know, in retail it's still today, 70% of um, spending decisions are made by women. Um, so if women aren't part of making those uh, products, then we're missing a trick. Um, I'm, I'M proud of it. I'm really proud of it because it matters greatly to me that we give people the opportunity to reach their potential, um, and to have the opportunity to drive these careers for the forward that they really want. I love it. Successful. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's so great. And I love that 52% of your intake are women. I love that it's not just about training, it's actually jobs. Yeah. Um, because otherwise, you know, there's a lot of training out there, but then if it doesn't convert to me actually using that, then it's really hard. Right. Um. And I couldn't agree with you more about just having. Having more women in these. In. In these environments. I mean, they are the consumer, you know, at the end of the day. So, um, right now for the penultimate question. Um, you know, um, best advice you ever received in your career. And by the way, we've heard so many wonderful things from you today, by the way. But, um, yeah, best advice you've received in your career. Maybe as you reflect back something that was just, maybe initially not what you would have thought as best advice.

Speaker B: I. I didn't realize this was best advice until many years after it was said to me, um, during that time where I was rebuilding from the, um, this feedback that I'd had and trying to figure out who I was, it deeply affected me. And, um, a senior manager who I had a good relationship with, I talked to him about it and I said, you know, this is really, really tough for me. I've lost my confidence. I don't know what to do. And he said to me, look, Jess, you've just got to choose how you feel about this and step forward. Don't let it take you. You decide. And I think ever since then, I've had some. I've had actually much worse things to tackle in my career since then. But I've taken with me, um, this advice, like, you decide, but. And actually it really resonated because at the time, I used to drive up and down the motorway to my office and, you know, I was talking about just showing up every day, and I used to say this mantra in the car. What you focus on increases, what you focus on increases. And I. So I flip that around and focus on the good and the positive and choose how I feel. And that's the best advice that I can give as well to other people. We have the power to change how we feel about things.

Speaker A: My God, that's fantastic, Jess. It really is. It really, really is. It's so positive. Lean forward uh, you know, control the controllables, all that stuff. Right. Because you're right. You could. You spend your life, like, drowning in sorrows. Right. And, and, and we've all done it, by the way.

Speaker B: I'm not nailing it every day, but I do remind myself, choose how I feel sometimes when things are really tough. I want to be clear. It's not about toxic positivity or anything like that, but just that inner steely strength that you need if you want to succeed in these, um, kind of businesses.

Speaker A: Jess, thank you so much. Honestly, that's a perfect place, um, to end and begin. Um, thanks for spending the time. I hope you got as much out of it as I did. I just love doing these.

Speaker B: Yeah, likewise. I love listening to them. I love taking part in it. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: Thank you. And I hope you have a wonderful holiday as well.

Speaker B: Thank you.