Procurement as a Strategic Lever for Social Impact with Olivia Hughes

Speaker A: Um, and so, yeah, so that's been the biggest shift, I think, making it real. It's not just about writing a shiny new policy. It's about people across the organization building a better understanding, embedding more consistent practice, and also being able to evidence that impact that we're making as well. Um, at the heart of it really, as well, it's about getting, getting value for the public power pound. When resources are really tight, every pound has to work smarter. It has to work harder.

Speaker B: Uh, the Powering Procurement podcast is brought to you by Atomis. Source to contract software designed to save you time and money. Hello and welcome to Powering Procurement, a podcast by Atomis, where we unpack the world of procurement and supply chain management with the help of industry leaders. I'm your host, Sian Lloyd and this is our resident expert, Gareth burch.

Speaker A: Hi. After 20 years in procurement, I may be billed as an expert, but believe me, I'm here to learn too.

Speaker B: Each episode, together with our expert guests, we'll dive into specific challenges and opportunities facing the procurement industry today.

Speaker A: And um, we'll explore easy wins and longer term strategies to help you rise to the challenge of driving value through your work while showcasing the power of procurement.

Speaker B: So let's get going. Hello everyone and welcome back to Powering Procurement. Today's guest is someone who sits right at the intersection of procurement policy and social impact. Olivia Hughes joined Liverpool city council in January 2025, a social value manager where she leads a transformative program designed to maximise social value through the council's commissioning and procurement activities. With more than a decade of experience spanning both the ah, public and private sectors, Olivia brings a wealth of expertise in embedding social value into strategic operations. Prior to her, uh, current role, Olivia served as head of social value and procurement at a private consultancy firm, working with a range of clients including local authority, social housing providers and private sector, mainly within the decarbonisation and retrofit sector sector. For many years she also worked in the Welsh public sector as lead social value Development Officer at Flintshire County Council, where she played a key role in shaping and delivering social value policy and its implementation. So, with a background that spans local government consultancy, bid management and supplier engagement, she brings a rare end to end perspective on how social value really works in practice and what it takes to move from policy ambition to delivery. So, welcome to the podcast, Olivia.

Speaker A: Thank, uh, you, um, it's a real pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Really looking forward to our conversation today. And as with many of our guests on Powering procurement. We like to understand a little bit about what you're doing now about your role. So it would be great to hear about this role with Liverpool City Council and know particularly I think, what social value means in practice to a local authority like yours.

Speaker A: Thank you. I've got to say as well Sian, as someone that's born and raised in North Wales, I'm naturally a bit a big fan. So this is definitely a pinch me moment. So um, thanks for having me on. Sorry, back to the question. Um, I started uh, my role as uh, social Value Manager for Liverpool City Council ah in early 2025 and um, so I've been there a year, has absolutely flown by. Um, I based within the um, Procurement and Contract Service. So my role really is about driving transformational um, change. A programme that um, will help us to maximise social value through the council's commission and procurement activity. So I'm essentially the guardian as well of our social volume policy. So making sure that it's applied consistently uh, and compliantly as well and then also leading on that implementation. Um, this year we've taken on the really ambitious task uh, of developing a brand new social value policy that will replace our current 2020 version. So um, it'll be modern, it'll be aligned with new legislation and best practice and also shaped around our local priorities and needs. So it's been a significant piece of work. Lots of careful drafting, lots of poor planning engagements. Make sure that it was co designed and that it was meaningful and realistically and something that genuinely m connected um, with our people and our communities and suppliers and officers and all of the other stakeholders that will connect with it as well. Um, in terms of um, social value in practice, for me it's exactly that. It's practice. It's not a buzzword or something aspirational that just sits on a shelf. Um, it's a real shift in mindset. It means putting social value at the heart of all of our decision making. Um, it's that golden thread, um, that we weave through everything so that it's meaningful, so that it's um, it's measurable impact into the way that we work so that we drive real and meaningful change for our people and community. So um, to summarise, it's about us doing even more um, and doing it with real purpose as well.

Speaker B: That's really great to hear and Olivia, really lovely to meet you because actually I'm in North Wales at the moment so I'm sitting in Wrexham not far from you actually in Liverpool. There Just across the border. So really great to chat and um, picking up straight away with what you were talking about, um, what you're doing there at Liverpool. Obviously that golden thread that it is meaningful, that it's all about the practice, um, not something that just sits on a shelf. Sort of leads me really I think to around that thought that you know, social value is very much moved, hasn't it, from being that policy ambition to being an actual daily requirement now. Um, and in terms of perhaps you've mentioned about the new strategy but in the way that that might be changing your role as well, the day to day reality of your role. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Speaker A: Yeah, you know I think there's definitely been a shift. Um, when social value first appeared you could arguably say that it had potential to be something that could just sit in the background. And a lot of that I think was because it was new and people didn't really fully understand it. And nationally as well I don't think that was. There was a huge amount of guidance either on how to actually practically deliver it. And we're talking back in 2012 when the public Services Social Value act came about. So some organisations adopted it really quickly and others needed a little bit more time which is pretty normal for something that needs real culture shift. Um, so I'd say now social value is a clear delivery requirement and um, those expectations are much higher. That does shape my day to day role. It gives it a lot more visibility, it gives it um, stature and profile. Um, and one thing I was always, I would always say is that so a social value role in local government is incredibly cross cutting. You work with so many different stakeholders from senior management teams to political leaders, frontline teams, partners, everyone really. It's not just a procurement thing. It touches on everything so you end up knowing quite a lot of people. Um, and you also get a really unique viewpoint of how everything sort of like molds and fits together. When um, I first came across social value it was back in, in, in 2014. So it was um, just after the, the public services social value art. Um, and I think there's even been a shift from there. So when it first appeared um, it was um, it's sort of even called community benefits. So there was lots of different um, uh, names for it as well. So I was working in white at the time as well. So we had that different name for it, it's called community benefit. So there was a lot of confusion around it as well. So um, so fast forward, um, I think to now, um, with the increased policy focus, it's brought a lot more accountability, which is obviously super positive. It pushes us beyond just the ambition and into real delivery. Um, and that's really important because policies um, only matter if, um, if they're actually um, deliverable as well. So I'm a doer, so that's my mindset comes, it comes naturally. Um, and so yeah, so that's been the biggest shift I think, making it real. It's not just about writing a shiny new policy. It's about people across the organization building a better understanding, embedding more consistent practice and also being able to evidence that impact that we're making as well. Um, at the heart of it really as well, it's about getting, getting value for the public pound. When resources are really tight, every pound has to work smarter, it has to work harder. Uh, um, so that shift from ambition to requirement, um, has definitely made my role much more hands on, outcome focused and honest. Who has the real power, that superpower, in what it delivers and not just what it promises.

Speaker B: Really interesting, Olivia, what you were saying there as well about um, social value and sort of the terminology around it and how it's evolved and people's understanding of it has evolved. Um, it'd be really good to get your thoughts on um, how central you think actually procurement is and um, this industry in terms of delivering social value for communities, local communities.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. Um, I think from, from my perspective procurement is absolutely central um, to delivering really meaningful social value. And in fact I'd say it's one of the biggest opportunities that we have in, in local government to drive real change, that sort of tangible, um, palpable change in our communities. So when you think about really that scale of expenditure on goods, works and services in the public sector, um, everything it takes, um, to sustain our communities and support residents, it's colossal, it's enormous. And um, we know that no matter how much we spend, financial constraints um, will always mean that we can't go as far as we'd like. And I think that's why, um, procurement becomes such a powerful strategic lever. Uh, it gives us that way to make every pound, as I talked about earlier, work smarter and harder and with real purpose. Um, in terms of social value, we define it as having two sides. So the first is inherent social value. So that social value that is already happening through contracts. So, um, like a social care contract for example, um, and with the right thinking and good commissioning design, we can enhance that value, create more impact and do it um, without additional Cost and then there's also the added value so the social value requirements that we build into our procurement processes that suppliers are then scored and weighted on. So that's how we can directly influence and shape that are social, economic, environmental and even cultural value as well. So for me procurement sits right at the heart of social value delivery. If we use it really really well, it becomes an integral strategic driver uh, that helps us to go much further than our financial resources could ever do on their own. And it's where ambition um, meets real world delivery. And I um, think that's why it matters so much.

Speaker B: And we've heard uh, on the podcast some describing um, you know, that there are challenges and it can be a balancing act. I think that's a term that's been used in the past particularly in terms of you know, when procurement teams are facing trying to balance commercial outcomes with social value commitments. I mean if you got any um, experience or examples around that.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question and I think it's, it's, it's a good question because I put, I think it puts spotlight on the challenges um because procurement teams in the public sector really do sit at that sort of center of balancing of that balancing act on the scales between sort of commercial outcomes and social value. And it isn't easy, it really isn't. Um, there's a lot of challenges um, um similar to private sector but that environment that we operate in is far more regulated. It's politically visible. We're scrutinized um politically and publicly um so the scope of the challenges is a huge one. We're often dealing with financial constraints, limited capacity, tight deadlines, um, sometimes procuring essential frontline services at ah real real pace and to meet those immediate needs um of our communities. And there can be large volumes of procurement as well going through uh, at ah any one time and funding as well. That needs to be used quickly. And as I've said decisions are open to political and public scrutiny. So that naturally is going to create caution. Um and I think it can mean procurement teams not just here but nationally across all local government can maybe be accused or be seen as working in sort of like procurement textbook rather than testing out new approaches um, uh, or innovating um, and now we've got the new Procurement act and policy policy um statement. It is going to I hope give us um, additional flexibility to do things in a different way. That's going to mean that we get greater outcomes um, but obviously it's going to take time to adopt and to test. But I'm confident this will bring um, a big change for procurement teams and give them more confidence and give them um, more ability to play outside of that textbook, uh, and be creative and be innovative in this space, which all sort of comes together within social value as well. It gives us um, a greater ability to do more. Um, so I think in that kind of environment social value can be seen as well as slowing things down. So it might stretch the timetable, add ah, complexity or create barriers for suppliers, um, who might already sort of find the public uh, procurement sector quite challenging. So uh, the balance really becomes about making good, informed decisions and doing that on a contract by contract basis. And um, just to sort of summarise for me, that's where that strong assessment comes in. We as a local authority look carefully at whether and how social value can be included in a procurement process in a way that is relevant, in a way that's proportionate and practical, but also mean and full. So there's something that is really genuine that can come out of it. So we're not just ticking a box, uh, that may create unintended consequences as well. So for example, that means things like um, looking at the market conditions, how mature is it, how competitive is it, where the costs align with budget, uh, as well as supplier capability in the market, what's the contract value, the duration? There's lots and lots of things that we need to look at when we're making that fair assessment. Um, and that's exactly as well why uh, we promote so much and we talk so much around outcomes, um, around social value being linked with uh, early planning and design and engagement is critical as well. Stakeholder engagement, which also includes pre market engagement, understanding our markets, talking to our stakeholders, um, up, uh, front, um, where possible so that we can understand the needs, the gaps, the opportunities, um, without sort of destabilising the procurement process. Sorry, I went off on a bit of a tangent but, um, I hope that answered the question somewhat.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it did. Don't worry. Don't worry. Absolutely did. It took me actually in a few different directions because, um, at the start of your answer I was thinking very much about what you were saying about the communities. And of course with being a local authority, um, you really deliver a wide range of services to a wide range of different communities and quite often that sort of procurement element, it's not visible to those people, is it, who are effectively the end user. But the impact of that sort of good procurement, social value would certainly be felt by them. And then you also Were bringing obviously your supply relationship in there and how important that is. And we do hear, you know, that there can be a difference in understanding about the importance of social value and engagement with that. But I presume that you know, that can separate organizations and suppliers really in terms of the extent that they do engage with social value. Really?

Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. From sort of a supplier perspective, I think that biggest differentiator uh, is understanding. It's understanding, not just understanding social value as a concept, but really understanding what it looks like in practice on the ground, on the coal face of it. So I think any supplier has the capability, ability to um, to engage with social value. Um, but I think the ones that, that struggle are often the ones that haven't yet connected with the theory of the, the reality of, of it which is that sort of like practical doing on the ground. Um, so I think the organizations that really sort of like stand out are the ones that have done their homework, um, that take the time to really understand the client. So our client requirements, the local contacts, the sort of legislative that, that we have to comply with. So getting in sort of like the client's head a little bit, putting themselves in the client's shoes, um, and also understanding sort of like the priorities of the areas um, that we operate in as well. So understanding residents, understanding communities and the challenges that face face then. So they're coming in bid ready, not, not just with a generic statement of, of sort of intent but with a genuine insight about, thought about where they can add value. Um, and I think experience as well plays a big part in it too because suppliers who have delivered social value before have seen the impact of their work. Um, so they tend to approach it with a different level of commitment because it means something. They've seen it happen, um, they've felt that touch, um, uh, is super positive and they want to do more, they want to help create more. And it's something that's really motivating, it's inspiring. Uh, it's like infectious. You want to keep doing more of it. Um, I think the other side of it as well is that ah, um, it's not sort of like one size fits all as well. So that different organizations also bring in in different strengths. You could argue that Ah, SMEs and VCSE's for example are deeply rooted in those communities. So they naturally have sort of like an advantage because they understand the local landscape, um, sometimes more naturally than larger organizations, um, and they're often already delivering social value in informal ways. So um, their challenge isn't isn't willingness, it's often capacity and resource against larger organizations. Um, so, yeah, so for me what separates suppliers isn't size or sector, it's mindset. Those that really sort of engage tend to be um, curious. They tend to be open and proactive and um, um, like I've said, grounded in that sort of like real experience. They see social value as something that is integral to their business. So it's, it's how they do business essentially. Um, so it's not something that is challenging because they already do it. It's, it's something that they do day to day and they don't struggle, you know, they don't struggle to apply that uh, to working um, with us on a new contract. It's not a new concept. It's, as I've said, it's grounded in who they are and how they practice.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's really great insight I think, and really good tips and advice there as well. Um, for our listeners to the podcast, uh, you mentioned Olivia earlier. I think obviously scrutiny, um, accountability in terms then of measuring social value, uh, that's key isn't it, in being able to evidence what you're delivering there. How do you actually approach that measurement and monitoring? An evidence based approach?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you're right. At Liverpool we use the TOMS framework. So that stands for um, national themes, outcomes and measures. And that gives us um, a consistent structure and draws on credible national data sources like the um, national government, hm, um, treasury, the Green Book. And then also um, think it brings in the, the unit cost database. Um, but don't ask me anything more speaking.

Speaker B: That's enough. Don't worry.

Speaker A: The ins and outs that go on with those, um, because I think it's pretty complex but they assign a financial proxy value um, to certain social value activities. So it could be for example creating a new job and it will um, showcase uh, what that financial or fiscal value is to society as a result of that person getting employed, for example. So. And the strength of the TOMS really is that it allows us to regulate, it allows us to uh, evaluate bids fairly so that we can compare like for like or apples with apples, apples, repairs. So suppliers know, they know the rules essentially. And we've got a transparent scorer methodology as well. So for procurement we have to make sure there's, that, there's that consistency, that consistency. It's, it's, it's essential. Um, but the TOMS is al. But the TOMS is just one part of the picture. It is very transactional. It tells you what's been delivered but not necessarily what difference that it's made. And I think that's the one sort of known criticism of it. And um, I think that's where the real challenge lies. For example, if a support as I said early offers a new job, the question I always ask is well so what did those jobs lead to sustainable employment or was it a case of. It was um, a short duration contract. They're employed for a very short, short term and actually it's ended up doing more harm than good because it wasn't sustainable and they've now been left unemployed. Um, did the individual actually benefit from it? Or as I've said was that unintended consequences? So I think that's the nuance we don't always capture through quantitative frameworks alone like the toms. And that's a wider challenge in the public sector because so much of what we procure is short term or can be short term. And our capacity and resources don't always allow us to track medium to longer term impact either. And that's, that's complicated. It's really complex to measure impact as well. So we end up measuring sort of like activity outputs and outcomes rather than that uh, meaningful change. Um, one thing we're really committed to though through the new policy that I mentioned earlier is um, is really strengthening this. So moving towards a more um, balanced approach, uh, but also building in more qualitative insight where we can so understanding that lived in experience, understanding outcomes and understanding that impact where we can beyond just sort of like those, those fiscal numbers. Um so for me M measurement is about blending both of those worlds. So the structure and um, uh, comparability that frameworks like the TOMS give us but also that deeper, more human understanding of what social, social value actually um, achieves in people's lives and um, that's, that's the direction that we're aiming for in, in in the new policy that will hopefully be endorsed um, at the end of this month.

Speaker B: I'm sure that will resonate with many listeners and it's great to hear you focus on what you are doing but where you feel more can be done or whether there are potential gaps. Um, do you think digital tools can potentially help with this? We hear quite often on the podcast obviously the importance of data, um, and getting that data uh, gathered um, and digested. Really.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean digital tools and procurement systems are naturally really important especially in the public sector uh, where we've got to ensure transparency uh, and accuracy. And as I've said the challenge around sort of uh, public and political scrutiny. We have to make sure that we're reporting transparently, um, and that we've got a consistent way to track and manage and report against social value as well as um. But I always say, um, because I was asked this question not long ago actually as well, that a system is only ever as good as the information that goes into it. So the technology isn't the hard part. The hard part is about getting the foundations right to begin with. So stripping all of that away and really like homing in on what the foundations are. So that means knowing exactly what we want to report on, making sure everyone understands it and giving the right guidance, the right training and um, support so they feel confident using any digital system properly. Um, because without that even with the best tool in the world it's, it's not going to give you meaningful data because people are not using it, they're not engaging with it, they're not, they're interacting with it. So, so um, as I was talking about the policy earlier, again um, within our new policy we're looking to um, really strengthen uh, validation. And what I mean by sort of validation is ensuring that for suppliers that have um, said that they've delivered against a contractual social value commitment, for example, say they've said that they're going to again hire someone and that they are providing credible evidence so that we're able to validate that and then be able to be confident in our reporting publicly. Um, and that way again um, is um, through those transparent sort of conversations, um, and again we're setting expectations up front then as well so suppliers know what evidence will be needed and there's not going to be sort of any, any surprises later on. So I've digressed slightly but yes, digital tools do play a crucial role but I think it's part of a much bigger picture. The real impact comes in good design foundations essentially clear expectations, quality data and strong relationships with people um, that are delivering the work and also those, those that are going to be inputting uh, onto the digital um, platform as well to make sure that we've got strong and reliable data.

Speaker B: Mhm, yeah, absolutely. Relationships being key there as well. As you were saying, um, something we hear so, so important within procurement. Uh, I'll take you a little bit wider now Olivia, just to sort of draw back because obviously we're really, really appreciative of the leaders that we get on the podcast and uh, we get some fantastic insight and experience shared. We know that there have been changes to public procurement Regulations. We've heard from the Cabinet Office themselves, they've been on and talking about it with us. In terms of how that's perhaps changed the perception or the way social value is seen, um, by local government. How would you assess that?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think the changes to um, public procurement are ah, in terms of the act and the policy statement are still really new. So I think we're still in that sort of transition period and that sort of like phase, um, of testing and learning and finding our feet with it. So, so. And I think that's probably reflective across um, the public sector nationally. Um, but I think even at this early stage it's clear that um, they're giving us ah, more flexibility and that's a really positive shift for social value. Um, with the new uh, regime, um, it does open the door for us being able to do things differently. There's more space to innovate, to be creative and try different methods, um, sort of outside of the previous role. So that's definitely going to have, or has already had an effect on social value. Um, we're not just talking about sort of like that added value either, uh, that scored and weighted. We're also talking about sort of the wider outcomes that we can influence, um, through uh, good design, um, and also sort of um, like inclusivity, accessibility and also reducing barriers for UM, SMEs and VCSes as well. So um, those organizations, they often bring their own social value naturally simply because of the way that they operate and um, their connection to communities. So anything that helps to diversify the supply chain instantly as well strengthen social value outcomes and those organizations and. Sorry, I've lost my train of thought. So, uh, I think I was, I was going to say I went to um, something that just popped up into my head because I went to Procurex last year and I know you were talking about um, uh, ah, Lindsay Maguire, because I'd looked at um, her podcast from this series and she's obviously from the Cabinet Office and she was at Procurex last year. Ah, um, and some of the case studies that she was sharing really struck with me. So, um, like the Council, um, that allowed video tender submissions and Lindsay was also talking around sort of an example and this sticks with me. It was an example around um, a tree surgery contract that she was talking about from um, uh, one of the local authorities wanting to procure a uh, tree surgery contract and where bidders did a live demonstration instead of submitting a lengthily written response. So they went to a site and they were asked to uh, fil a tree, um, you know, as they would. And they were making the assessments around you know, health and safety and lots of other qualitative aspects. And I found that really fascinating because it just shows what's possible when um, we step away from more traditional processes and it reduces barriers, making things more inclusive and gives the far sort of like clearer sense of a quite quality than um, potentially a written method statement could ever do as well. And then you've also got sort of like challenges around AI now as well and you know, um, that supporting um, you know, or strengthening suppliers, uh, qualitative responses which is it's a tool there, you know, to be used and you know, um, I don't know across the board, you know, um, other public sectors um, have policies around the use of AI and so on and so forth. But um, I just thought that was a fascinating case study and I think that's come from the update um, of the act and also um, the policy statement as well. So um, it's really exciting that there's the opportunity to be a bit more creative um, and I think um, naturally that's going to um, support us um, with getting greater social value outcomes um, through uh, commissioning activity.

Speaker B: Yeah, and it's always great to hear those real stories, isn't it? The case studies that always just bring something to life and it can also just spark that bit of inspiration as well with sharing something like that. So thanks for bringing that to our podcast today as well. Um, and to hear about it from you was, was brilliant. I suppose just perhaps a final thought on this one from you, uh, before a couple of closing questions, um, in terms of any advice you might have for leaders around now, you know, being better prepared for the value of social value in public sector procurement.

Speaker A: Yeah, sure. I think for procurement leaders who want to be ready for the future of social value, I mean it's here, it's now, it's been around for a long time now. Uh, but I think the first thing is investing in dedicated resource. So having someone within the organization whose job it is full time to lead on it, someone who brings passion, they bring energy and clarity that makes a massive difference, um, because they're going to also bring ownership and accountability to make sure there's compliance, but it's also deliverable as well. You really need a champion, um, who can bring everyone along on that journey. Um, but that can't sit in isolation either. I think you also need um, leadership buy in both from senior management teams and also politically, uh, where that commitment is Visible at the top. And it naturally sort of like throws through the flows through the organization and m, that's what really helps to shift culture throughout the organization. Sort of like that top down approach. Um, and again I think that sort of social value becomes part of how people think then because it's that culture shift and not something extra that's just sits on the side and um, no one's accountable for. So uh, I, uh, do think having, having uh, investing in someone is, is, is really, really key. But then also echoing the message that although it's one person's full time role to support with compliance and delivery, social value is everyone's job. It's everyone's role to create it, be the guardians of it, to be champions of it. But that just takes time and it takes, as I've said, that culture shift and that's why you need leadership, um, buy in to make sure those messages resonate and are heard.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely brilliant, brilliant advice there. Olivia, I'm going to ask you whether you've actually had any surprises um, while in local government in terms of, you know, you're working in social value, working in protection procurement. Have there been any surprises for you so far?

Speaker A: I think what surprised me honestly is how the world looks um, when you've sat on both sides of the table. So before I joined the public sector, uh, all of my experience was in the private sector, uh, in either consultancy roles or as a supplier myself. So I was the person that was writing all the bids, I was delivering the social value on the ground. So I was going in schools and delivering careers, talks and things like that, um, really trying to interpret what the client actually wanted. I didn't get it at all. And um, I remember all of it, the complexity of it, the pressure, the barriers. I remember being up at 3 o' clock in the morning writing bins, um, and actually back then as well, um, there was no sort of like digital system. So it was all sort of printing, hand binding and delivering it to local authorities. So, um, so I've been on that side of it. So stepping away into the public sector gave me, I think an incredibly valuable perspective. It really helps me to understand how to shape approaches that didn't feel like a tick box exercise, that didn't feel difficult for the supplier and something that they could genuinely engage with and also feel like they could almost get an advantage if they engaged with it properly. Um, so discovering sort of like this other side, this client side, um, that was probably the biggest surprise of all. So I suddenly saw things as in um, the regulations, the legislation, the scrutiny, the political environment, the pace, um, and the fair level of responsibility really. So it helped me to see those pressures and um, the care that has to go into decision making. Um, and so instead of feeling sort of daunted by that I found it was super exciting. Loved bring in my commercial sort of solutions, focused mindset into a space where I could, I felt like I could make a real difference. So I think that dual perspective, seeing the whole picture from both ends has really shaped everything about how I personally work today. And it's made me more empathetic and more balanced and also more determined to design processes that feel human and are genuinely deliverable. As I've said, I'm definitely a doer. I've got a doer mindset and I really want to make sure that everything that we do as a local authority definitely can be delivered and it's not just um, ambition. So I think that's probably the biggest surprise I had was just generally going into the public sector and understanding, understanding all the challenges.

Speaker B: Well our um, final question you've part answered I think in that one because we're here to inspire the next generation perhaps thinking about going into procurement as a career while recognizing the challenges the sector like so many sectors around retention and recruitment. So our final one to our guests is always um, Srasan to share about. Know what's actually made you happy that you have chosen a career in procurement. I mean your passion for it certainly shines through and your never ending drive to also keep improving as shown through the podcast as well. But how would you sum up um, where you are and why you're happy you did choose it?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean just to be clear, I didn't choose procurement. It, it definitely wasn't something that was talked about in school even after doing a um, business degree. I don't think I could have confidently explained even what it was or what a job might look like in procurement. Um, but I sort of fell into it. Um, as I've said from sort of supplier side I was in bit management and then went client side into sort of the procurement aspect. So um, I fell into it and um, something just clicked. Um, I don't deliver procurements naturally myself but I do see my role as a huge part of the team being that strategic sort of support arm. Um, and over the years I've built a strong understanding of how things work and how they fit together. Um, even without sort of like a textbook definition. I think actually not coming from a traditional route has um, Actually been one of, uh, the biggest strengths, really, because it's made me more comfortable in asking, why are we doing things like this? Can we do things in a better way? Um, always questioning things. Probably being a bit of a nuisance, really. Um, uh, and I think that's because I've come from the private sector and have had that sort of, like, plethora of different roles and bringing that sort of like, commercial head, um, which I think is incredibly an incredible useful skill to have in the public sector, that commercial thinking. So, um, that's the thing I think I love about procurement. It's fast paced, it's creative, it's innovative. It lets your problem solve, think commercially, bring ideas to life. All of that stuff, stuff that keeps me super excited. But I do think that there is a really personal side for me. I think I've always been, um, a touch of it, passionate. Um, but I'm also a really benevolent person at heart. I, I really want to make a difference. I want to help people to thrive and feel like my m. Work is, is making a genuine difference and that it matters. So I think that's, that's really important to me. So working in the public sector, where those values come together, it's. It's always a place where it's felt like home and it's where my sort of professional purpose and personal purpose has met. So I'm super happy that I've ended up here. Uh, it definitely wasn't part of the plan, I think, going back many years ago when I was leaving school and university. But, um, I'm hopeful that I can look back at my career one day and feel really, really proud of what I was part of. Um, and, um, for me, that's about making change, making meaningful, positive change that really, uh, genuinely affects people's lives for the better.

Speaker B: So, um, so, yeah, and really inspiring to hear. Olivia and like so many of our guests, have fallen into it, quite frankly. So I think you're amongst, uh, a super band of people when you say that. And thank you for being so open as well in your conversation and sharing so much with us today. It's been absolutely fascinating chatting with you. Um, we wish you all the best with, of course, the rest of your career, um, many, many years of changing lives and doing more yet to come. I'm sure from you and of course, to everybody who's been listening to the podcast. Ah, we hope you enjoyed this episode. Don't forget, um, you can listen to our other episodes wherever you find your podcasts and we will be back with another Powering Procurement very soon.

Speaker A: That wraps up this episode of Powering Procurement. We hope you enjoyed that as much as we did.

Speaker B: Visit our website@atomis.co.uk or follow us on LinkedIn to continue continue the conversation.

Speaker A: Remember to subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you choose to listen.

Speaker B: Thanks for joining us and see you next time on Powering Procurement.