Episode 74: 26 Million Downloads Later: The Podcast Growth Strategy That Actually Works with Kelly Smith of Mindful in Minutes

Kylee Chandler: Hey friend, I just wanted to bop in and let you know that as

Kylee Chandler: I prepare for my maternity leave, I'm

Kylee Chandler: going to be changing things up just slightly.

Kylee Chandler: So instead of recording an episode every single week for June and July and possibly August, I'm actually going to be dropping an episode every other week. Don't worry, they'll still be super tactical, really strategic, and so valuable to you and your growth in podcasting and business.

Kylee Chandler: On top of that, I'm also going

Kylee Chandler: to only be sending one newsletter per

Kylee Chandler: month, so if you are not on

Kylee Chandler: my newsletter quite yet, please get on there. You can head to podcastmarketinghub.com subscribe and I will still provide you with a ton of juicy insider insight, including industry updates and all of the juicy things. If you want something that can really support you in the meantime, I highly recommend you go check out my quiz if you, which is at podcastmarketinghub.com forward/quiz.

Kylee Chandler: And that is going to give you

Kylee Chandler: a really clear understanding of where the gaps are in your business and podcast and how to merge those gaps so that you can start to turn podcast listeners into subscribers into buyers. So again, that's podcast marketing. Hub.com forward/quiz. Thank you so much for being here. Please stick out with me while I go on maternity leave and spend a little bit of time with my new business baby and my family. And again, I'll be releasing an episode every other week and then dropping a newsletter weekly. So thank you for being here. I truly, truly appreciate you and I will see you soon. Hey there friend. Today I'm sitting down with someone who is super special to me. Her name is Kelly Smith.

Kylee Chandler: She is a meditation teacher, a yoga,

Kylee Chandler: uh, instructor, the founder of Yoga for you, and the host of not just one, but two incredible podcasts, Mindful Minutes, which has over 26 million downloads across nearly nine years, and Meditation Mama, which serves women through fertility, prenatal and postpartum meditations, among many other things. Kelly was also one of my students in my Beta Mastermind group and I got to work with her behind the scenes on building out a quiz for her podcast listeners that has already had over 1200 people take it and continues to grow. She is one of the most methodical, transparent and genuine podcasters I know and this conversation is packed with so much gold. I absolutely loved it. We talked about monetization, using data to drive your content, and how to think about your podcast as the long game,

Kylee Chandler: which I love, love, love that piece

Kylee Chandler: of the conversation so much. I can't wait for you to Hear this one. I think she has so many little gems of knowledge for you. So let's dive in and welcome Kelly.

Kylee Chandler: If you've ever wished you had a podcasting pro with nearly a decade of experience experience whispering growth secrets into your ear, that's exactly what you'll get when you tune into podcast growth tools with me, your host, Kylie Chandler. This is the ultimate show for you if you're ready to grow your podcast audience, skyrocket engagement, and turn your show into a traffic driving list building powerhouse. I've been in the podcasting world since 2015, helping creators like Amy Porterfield grow their shows to over a million downloads a month. My superpower. Breaking down proven podcast strategies and marketing techniques into step by step guidance you can actually implement without fluff, overwhelm or guesswork. On this show, we're getting real about what actually moves the needle when it comes to growing your podcast audience and using it to boost your email list growth. From actionable insights and expert interviews to behind the scenes secrets, I'll help you turn your podcast into a traffic driving list growing machine. Grab your earbuds, hit subscribe and let's take your podcast to the next level.

Kylee Chandler: Kelly, I'm so excited for this interview. Um, you, I love you so much. And you are a Minnesota girl, which is super fun. And you're into yoga, which I am too. And you have an amazing podcast, your mama. There's so many wonderful, uh, things that we could dive into. But you have this, you have two podcasts that are so successful, have been around for so long, and I want you to kind of take us back to like the very beginning of. Why, why did you start a podcast?

Kelly Smith: You know, I started a podcast first. Hello. Thank you for having me. And we do have so much in common. When I think about it. We just have like a lot in common, a lot of shared interests, and I'm excited to chat about that. Um, going all the way back to the beginning of the podcast. I actually started it because I had a yoga studio, um, in Missouri. We lived in Missouri for a little bit because my husband was in medical school. He was in medical school for a really long time, but we moved a lot, um, for different parts of his school. And so the first move that we had was to rural Missouri from Minneapolis the first time. And I had to leave my job, everything I was working in management. I wasn't even like teaching yoga full time. It was just my passion. I had taken my yoga teacher training and I had my actual quote, like real job. And then I Would sub classes and I was building up my confidence and that's what I really loved. And then when we moved, I had to leave my job. You know, my husband was in school all the time. I was in this new place, this small town. I didn't really have anything to do with myself. And so I thought what an opportunity to start a business because the universe had kind of given me this clean slate. But of, you know, you have no friends, you have nothing to do, you're kind of here alone because your husband's always in school. Um, why not try to make it work? And so I started teaching a few yoga classes there and then it started to build and build and I ended up opening my own studio. And it was then when we moved, we were there for three years when we moved from Missouri then to Michigan because we only ever live in m states apparently. But when we moved then, you know, I had to sell the studio, all of that. But, but I had anyone who's listening who has like an in person, like a service based type business, you know, like how special those clients are and like those like teaching like weekly classes and seeing your regulars, especially in a small town, you see your people, all of that. And so then to leave them. I was so sad about that and I was sad to be leaving my business. And we moved to Michigan and I knew we were only going to be there for a year and a half, maybe two years tops. And so I kind of was looking at the state of my business at that time. And I was so tired and burnt out because I had a location dependent business and I was teaching all the time. Like my goal is to take like two days off a month and that rarely happened. I was really in that like boss, babe, like hustle era. Like a decade later and two kids later, I am not in that area. I'm like, I want the opposite of what that is.

Kylee Chandler: Amen.

Kelly Smith: But I was at the time. And so then when we moved, I was so exhausted. But I miss my students and I knew that there was something I need to do to keep it alive and I didn't want to. I didn't plan on opening a new studio again. My, my service based people, you know how long it takes to build that uh, following to get people in the door to get those regulars. I wasn't going to invest in redoing that at the time. And so I wanted to find a way to stay reconnected with my students back in Missouri. And I was listening to podcasts. This would have been in 2017 so I like to think of it as before the golden age of podcasting. And I was listening to a few podcasts and I was trying to figure out just the actual logistics of creating. I want. I knew I wanted to create guide meditations because part of my signature style when I was teaching was like a little bit of a guided meditation at the end in Shavasana. And this was something that my, uh, students had kind of gotten to know me for. And I, uh, wanted to figure out just truly the logistics of like, how do I share, like, how do I record these things and then share them online for free? So if my students still want to listen to my meditation, sometimes they can do that. And to me, the logistical answer was to put them on like a podcast feed. And so it wasn't really any kind of strategy. It wasn't like a bigger plan. I just logistically in 2017, like, I couldn't really figure out. Or maybe 20, no, 2017, uh, I just couldn't really figure out how to share these audio files with people because we think about how much audio in particular has come in the last nine years. And the hardest part about. Well, there are two things that were the hardest part about podcasting at that time, which was actually getting it set up. I don't know if you remember Kylie, like the logistics. And there weren't easy. There wasn't whatever, Spotify for podcasters where you could have any audio file and have it up and um, all the places in like a day or two. This was a really logistical, like tech heavy process to get like your RSS feed out there and doing it. And that took a while. And I just started recording these meditations and sharing them. And it started small and then it continued to grow and grow. And then the thing that really changed it was actually Covid because I had then been creating these weekly meditations for three years. And then everyone went into lockdown and you know, March of 2020, such a life. We all remember where we were then, but for me in particular, it was such a life changing moment because we were back in Minneapolis again for my husband's residency. I found out I was pregnant with my first child. On the Internet, we just call them Pork Chop. So I just found out I was pregnant with Pork Chop. And you know, my husband was then doing like in like the ICU and residency, uh, during COVID And my business model at that time, because the podcast wasn't driving any revenue. The podcast wasn't really do. It's just something I enjoyed. It wasn't Doing a lot for my business at that time, though. But my business model at the time was that I was traveling around globally doing a lot of continued ed trainings for other teachers. So meditation teacher trainings, yoga, NIDRA teacher trainings, restorative teacher trainings, um, doing retreats, things like that, and being somewhat nomadic with how I was teaching and where I was teaching. And so March of 2020, I found out I was pregnant. And I was supposed to be going to the UK for kind of. I would go for like a couple of weeks and go to different cities and do different things. And then all the planes were grounded. And so then that wasn't going to happen. And this is when we only thought it was going to be like, two weeks long. Do you remember? We thought we're going to be, uh, like two weeks. And so I had to cancel this whole thing that I had. And I lost, like $15,000 in a day because I had to refund, like, everyone's tuition. Um, I'd put these deposits down for location, all the stuff. And I thought at the time I was like, I kind of made peace with it where I thought, like, I've had such a good run doing what I've been doing, and I'm so grateful for it. But I guess this is it, though. I guess this is kind of the end of it, because I knew I was pregnant. It's not like I was going to be able to just reschedule for a month or two later. Um, and I thought, okay, this is kind of it. And then the next day, because I was trying to keep my routine kind of regular, I've always kept track of my stats every single week. And I went in and I logged in to, you know, check my stats on my podcast. And I thought it was a glitch. And I had a quarter of a million downloads in a week on my podcast, on my Teeny Tiny at the time, Teeny Tiny Little Mindful in Minutes podcast. And I was like, what? And that's when everything changed. Now it didn't. That was like this huge boom. And it hasn't, like, stayed. It's not like I'm still getting a quarter of a million every week. But that's when everything changed. I started, like, advertisers started reaching out, and podcast advertising was really green at that time. Um, you know, all these new people listening, different opportunities started opening up and, like, everything changed. And then shortly after that, when I was, um, pregnant and, you know, at home a lot, that's when I started my second podcast. Which is meditation, mama. Which is the fertility, prenatal and postpartum meditations. Because I was doing these practices and I was at home and I thought, oh my gosh, why don't I like put these together and also put them on a feed for people who need like those specific meditations. And then things have just been so different ever since that.

Kylee Chandler: Oh my gosh, that is such a wild story. And talk about just like the universe, like putting little like stops for you along the way with just different experiences. But okay, I'm so excited to dive into all this. We are going to talk about like advertising as well, because you really had that dialed in. Um, but okay, so mindful in minutes is like 7 years old then, right?

Kelly Smith: Mhm. 7 years old, 8 years old in the fall. No, it's going to be nine years old in the fall. It's eight years.

Kylee Chandler: Okay. Over 11 million downloads, right?

Kelly Smith: So it's actually over 26 million.

Kylee Chandler: Oh my gosh. What is. Must be from your website. I pulled her. Okay. Might need to update a few things.

Kelly Smith: I need to update that.

Kylee Chandler: Okay, so amazing. And then you started your second one. So tell me M. I know we kind of like can reference the golden age, which was kind of our own Covid for. For podcasting. But fast forward to a little bit more recently when things have shifted over. What do you feel has been really supportive for your continued growth?

Kelly Smith: That's a good question. I think so. I think part of it is kind of infusing like taking my podcast and also my business, which is Yoga for you, which is still, you know, I do continue to uh, add. I do workshops, I do events, I do retreats and things like that. But really kind of making the two into one. And so the two have kind of become synonymous. So the people who find mindful in minutes from searching and something that's been really great for my podcast in particular is because I have such a library. I know it seems like such maybe this will be a frustrating answer, but really consistency for me makes a huge difference. And. And it's because I still get a ton of traffic in the back catalog of my podcast. And the reason is because I have like great titles. I have specific titles. And so people will go to Spotify and they'll search for. This is for both shows. They might search for something specific like um, Yoga Nidra to fall asleep or um, you know, morning meditation for gratitude. And I'll have like an episode that is a guided meditation says 11 minute morning meditation for gratitude. Or someone might search, you know, Guided meditations to prepare for labor. And I have, you know, I have these meditations there. And so for me consistency was a huge thing and is still a huge thing, um, for me time and time again because I basically now created this library that I have. And so I'll have people that will come to the podcast first because they're just searching for something that I've been creating for years. And then I infuse a little bit more of my business into that and just talking about the other types of things that I do, whether it be, you know, meditation type stuff or retreats or trainings, and then also the other way around because I do then have this other realm where sometimes people will come to me because, um, like for example, this weekend as we're recording this, I'll be um, near Toronto doing some guest teaching. And so I might have people that are coming to that and become familiar with my work, like as the in person, you know, yoga meditation teacher or sometimes I do pop up trainings or events and then they might not even know that I have a podcast. And so then talking about that as well and infusing the two, I think have really helped me to continue to grow or at least to not, um, sort of fall off. Because the thing people need to understand about podcasting is it is sort of an, like an up and down and it comes and it comes in waves. And I think that I thought this a little bit. I was like, oh my gosh, all these people are listening. This is incredible. I thought that it would just continue to be like, up, up, up, up, up, up, up. And it hasn't been, it's been, you know, up, up, plateau, a little bit of an up plateau, sometimes down a little bit. And that's just sort of, you know, the name of the game. And, and it happens. But to have that consistency and to have now built a big podcast library, um, where I can send people to different episodes where I can recommend we'll talk about this. But like a big strategy of mine with embarking on the quiz project was like creating playlists for people. Um, and so that's been really helpful. And then sort of cross referencing my business into my podcast and then my podcast into my business has really helped

Kylee Chandler: all the things I love. And no, that wasn't a frustrating answer at all because those are two things I talk so much about for growth is one consistently and, and, and building that back catalog. It's why Jenna Kutcher could finish all these years and still get probably thousands and thousands of downloads when you have that back catalog you mentioned, good titles that are searchable, clear, this is important for growth. And then the other thing is collaboration and getting in front of your ideal customer in any way you can. Because I guarantee anyone that you meet at a, ah, yoga retreat or continued education who stumbles, who, who is driven to your podcast, the chances of them becoming a super fan for your podcast and then maybe even, you know, working with you or buying from you down the road is so much more likely. So I loved your answer. One thing I would love to hear a little bit more on, and I was going to ask this further on, but you're kind of bringing it up now is you are a mom of two young kiddos and you are home with them at uh, portion of the week and you have a husband who is a doctor. So not, not like the most flexible schedule. How do you stay consistent? Because that's a big pain point for people is like consistently showing up and feeling inspired to record.

Kelly Smith: So a big driver for me. And you know this about me, Kylie, but I'll always give it to you straight. This is just the way that, that I, you can always count on me to give it to you straight. So my honest answer is that, um, one, I have a color coded spreadsheet in which I plan out, um, usually at least six to nine months ahead of time. I can tell you exactly what I will be writing and recording and, and scheduling through right now, I think through October. And the reason that I and it is color coded, the reason it's color coded is because I do a few different like styles of episodes. So every Sunday I do a guided meditation. Once a month I do a five minute meditation which is a community mini where we donate the ad revenue that month to like an organization in my community. And then two times a month I do a longer episode which is like what I call like a freeform episode. And that's where every once in a while I'll have a guest on. But a lot of times I'll just dive deep into a particular topic. Um, so like a, ah lot like I talked about like what is actually a regulated nervous system or I recently just did one like what is actually grounding? Because people think that it's like you go stand outside barefoot for 20 minutes. That's actually a practice called earthing. And it's one type of grounding technique. And so diving into something that like people might be familiar with the term but they're like, but what exactly is it? And I love to do those deep dives it's probably the neurodivergent woman in me, but I love to do those things. And so I plan out. I'm very methodical about how I do my podcast. And so, for example, I'll start with, um, maybe some of the freeform episodes, because those will release on a Wednesday, and then the following Sunday, that guided meditation will always relate back to the theme of the freeform episode. So I start by planning some of those out. I know that my most popular, my most popular topics typically are sleep, meditations, morning meditations, um, nervous system meditations, and anxiety. Those are like the four really big ones. And so I make sure that every month I have one of kind of those heavy hitters. And so usually what that means is there's, you know, one of each each quarter. So I'll go through and be like, okay, well, I'll do morning this month and I'll do sleep this month. And I start to plot those in. And then I will look at some of my other categories where. Yeah, and then I, you know, other categories a lot of times, like the spiritual meditations might be more popular, but I want to look at sort of a unique lens with it. So I'll plug some of those in and then the five minute meditations. I usually look at whatever performed the best last year and then make a five minute mini version under that, um, that particular topic. And then I'll fill those in and then whatever is left, I plug in whatever I feel like creating. And that is how I do it. And then I just don't let myself not do it. Because here's the thing about consistency, is that you teach yourself how dependable you are by showing up. And so if you let yourself think that this is optional because you're your own boss, you're kind of setting yourself up to fail. And I say that so lovingly as someone who so many times have wanted to not show up, because I do have two kids, my husband has a very inflexible job. Um, you know, also, you know, my parents are getting older things, like there's a. I have a lot of life things. I'm also in a little bit more of a caregiver role in a certain aspect of my family. There's just a lot of life things that happen that typically come first. And so I be really methodical. Um, but you basically teach yourself whether or not you're dependable to you. And the way that you do that is by doing the things that you say you're going to do for yourself. And that's how you learn that you can actually depend on yourself and, and that it's not really optional. And then the other piece of this, which is the very honest answer too, is that I do have my podcast monetized, and the revenue that I get from my podcast being monetized is a big piece of my business. Again, that also fluctuates a lot of ups and downs. Um, but to me, that's like, if I don't show up, I don't get a paycheck, and that's important, too. And so I do recognize that it definitely is harder to show up, because here's the thing, is that I think you need at least two years under your belt before it's. There's something around that two year mark with podcasting where it seems like. But you can chime in, Kylie, as to whether or not you've seen this with your own clients, but there's something about, you need to be in this for, like, two years consistently making, like, no money. And there's something after that two year mark where it seems like things kind of start to, you know, catch and change a little bit. And so when people ask me if they should start a podcast, I always tell them, like, if this is something that you're willing to do and put in all this time and effort completely for free for at least two years, then yes, absolutely. Um, but it is harder to show up when you are, you know, putting all this time and effort into it for something that actually usually costs you money because, you know, you have some upfront costs. Uh, but yeah, for me, too, it also is, you know, I love what I do, and to not show up means to not get a paycheck. But also, I don't want to at this point, um, kind of implode the thing that I'm so happy about and so proud of. And so I, I want to show up and keep doing it because it's so important to me.

Kylee Chandler: Okay. This is so. There's so many pieces of that answer that I love. One, I'm so grateful that you transparently shared the things that are just happening in your life, because I never want people to think, well, you know, her life must be so easy. She can just, you know, record, uh, whenever she wants to record. It's not that, like. And what makes it easier for you is knowing your ideal listener so well. Like, you listed off all these things that you know about that person, which is going to help from a content standpoint, simplify when you sit down to plan things.

Kylee Chandler: Out.

Kylee Chandler: And I love a good plan. I love having the podcast calendar set up, uh, planning out as far as head as you can. So I think that that's really important. So, you know, what Kelly said is just like, know what's working for your audience so that you can create more content like that. Like, that's going to be one thing and 100%. I always say podcasting is a little bit of a long game. It just is, but, man, it can pay off if you really stick with it. And in a world of, like, reels and YouTube shorts and things like that, it's such a powerful place to nurture and really just show up for your audience in a vulnerable way and be honest. And that's what people are craving.

Kelly Smith: So, yeah, I think especially in a world of a lot of AI and, you know, and AI certainly isn't all bad, um, but I think that a lot of people are really craving just like a personal experience. And to me, something like podcasting is such an intimate experience. And I love to listen to podcasts too. And I think about, you know, you have someone's voice in your ears at least once a week, and it seems like you get to know them so well, even if they don't necessarily know you. But it is a really intimate experience. And so I think in a world of like, AI, it's become even more intimate to, like, listen to someone's voice and thoughts and in long form content as well. And I think that that's something that's really special. And I do think that, you know, with everything there's, you know, ebbs and flows with every industry, but I do think that that's going to be the thing that is going to maintain, like, the health and the relevancy of podcasting is listening to, like, real people with real thoughts that come from their mind and their experience that, uh, like you can't just get from AI.

Kylee Chandler: Yes.

Kylee Chandler: Oh, my gosh. I just recorded an episode before this one about, like, the five things I learned being in a room full of female podcasters. And one was like, the realness that. And keeping the realness in the podcast. Like a kid breaking into your room while you're recording and having to answer the question. And then, you know, okay, okay, we're back to it. Um, okay, I want to actually hop over to talk about the quiz. You alluded to this a little bit. Um, you were in my beta mastermind last summer fall, or. Yeah, summer fall. And a big part of that was putting together a quiz in the way that I Like, to support people in putting them together. But before we dive into all of that, how is the quiz doing?

Kylee Chandler: Doing.

Kylee Chandler: Like, give us some numbers if you have them. Um, yeah, of course I didn't prep you for this.

Kelly Smith: No, no, I'll pull them up for you.

Kylee Chandler: And I know you had some goals,

Kelly Smith: and I did have some goals, and so I will again, you know, I can. You can always count. What is the name of the software again? But I was gonna type in Quick Box.

Kylee Chandler: Um, I might be creating my own quiz app. So stay tuned so everybody can move over.

Kelly Smith: That's cool. Um, okay. TBD with that, but I will tell you. So I had, um. So my main objective with the quiz, and this is something that Kylie and I had talked back and forth a little bit before I even joined the beta, which I highly recommend. If you want to do a quiz, I do recommend. Work with Kylie. Do it. She's. She's really great. And you will, like, get it done. Because my biggest struggle for. For me is getting things done specifically because of time constraints. So I do probably. I, uh, maybe work 40 hours a month. And the way that I work is because my husband, like, I don't know, maybe this is like TMI M. But he works these big blocks, so he will be like, not. He works like seven on, seven off. So basically, I'm like a solo parent for a week, and then the next week, then I have time to kind of do my work. And, um. And so I kind of, yeah, maybe work 40 hours a month at tops. And then, you know, do all of these things within that time. And so one of my biggest struggles in life in general, but professionally is, um, getting things done, specifically new projects done. So this is something that I had wanted to do for a really long time because the vision that I had was, um, to basically start to categorize my podcast. So I have now, you heard me list off all the different types of episodes and things that I have, but I have, I don't know, maybe six or seven hundred episodes at this point, because I've been doing it for so long. And I know that specifically with my podcast, because people are listening to these guided meditations. But the way that people do guided meditations, and I want to actually circle back really quickly to what Kylie said about knowing your ideal customer. One thing I want to add to that is I find it so useful to let the data speak for itself and to take the ego out of it, because there's definitely times, there's meditations that I love to create and it was great and fun for me to create. And it's like crickets. No one's really listening to it. And that's okay. But I'm going to take my ego out of it. I'm going to say, okay, that either that particular style or maybe that topic or whatever, it was not as much of a slam dunk as what people are listening to. And so, especially for those first few years when you can really experiment, take every single week, take all of the data and use that as data points to then continue to refine what's working and what's not working. And so the way that I've gotten really methodical with it is because I now have over seven years of data to pull from as to like what's working and what's not working or what people prefer and what they don't prefer, which is really, really helpful. So with all of that, I knew that I had kind of these certain categories of meditation, specifically morning meditations, more of the spiritual meditations, quick meditations like five minutes anxiety, sleep, um, people who are there for just general relaxation, stress relief, people who there for some kind of healing, either physical or emotional. And then breath meditations were kind of my big ones. And a big objective that I had with this quiz in particular is I wanted to create playlists for my people. Because at this point, If I have 650 episodes, nobody is going to go through 650 episodes and like flag every single breath meditation, because that's the type that they like. And so maybe people know if they've been with me for years, that there's a lot of them. But also if someone's just joining in because they happen to search for morning breath work meditation and stumbled on one of my episodes, they're not going to go through 650 episodes and find all the ones that are their preferred style and topic. So I wanted to create a system where it was one a much more streamlined experience for my listeners. So once they take the quiz and they kind of get tagged with what their meditation archetype is, then if a new meditation gets released under that archetype, I can kind of, you know, send them and flag it and be like, hey, a new sleep meditation. But also I wanted to pull some of the older episodes and put them together like ones that they maybe hadn't come across yet that were within their preferred set style. And so what I did with that is after I created the quiz, and let me tell you, it was a lot of work. Okay, this, uh, it was a Lot of work, but it was worth it. And the reason, it was a lot of work for me in particular. And Kylie and I talked about this because I was like, kylie, I don't think you're going to like what I'm about to tell you, but I'm going to do it anyways. I was like, I'm going to do. I don't know what it was. Seven or eight results. 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8 results. So that meant, like, building out the quiz for eight different results, eight, you know, results pages, eight nurture sequences, you know, everything. And I was like, but I'm committed to this and I'm gonna do it. And it was definitely worth it. And so I've only done. It's still on my to do list because again, sometimes I struggle to take on new projects. I do want to start running some ads to this quiz. I haven't done that yet. I want to run some ads to this quiz and see what that does. And if that doesn't drive some new cold traffic to my podcast, but only for my warm audience. Um, um, I've had about 1200 people take the quiz, which I was happy with. I wanted a thousand people within the first 30 days, which I think I got. Um, um, and the thing that's been really interesting in particular is seeing the results. And so, and, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, because I have a theory about this, Kylie, because I know you're also a meditation person. So my top result is the Mindful Morning Meditator. 21.4% of my people were categorized as a morning meditation person. Now I have a theory because when I cross reference that. Is this, like the nerdiest episode that you've ever had, Kylie?

Kylee Chandler: I love this, this conversation. I'm like, I take this data and

Kelly Smith: then when I cross reference it with that data, this is like, no, my audience loves this. Trust me, this is the unsexy part of podcasting. And also any of just my business owners, my entrepreneurs out there. The more that you take your ego out of it and you let the numbers just speak for themselves and look at it with an analytical mind, it is truly going to help you. So I took this information and then cross referenced it to my top performing episodes over the last few years because also there are trends within relevant topics. So I didn't want to look at it for like the last eight years because, for example, like, nervous system. We weren't talking about that when I started this podcast. But now those are like hot people want, uh, they are in it for the nervous system. And I love that. But I wanted to cross reference and I wouldn't say, I would say in my maybe top three morning meditations are in there, definitely top four. But I wouldn't say it's my top one. My top one is usually a sleep meditation. So I looked at this data. When I cross references referenced it, I came up with a few different theories. One is I am suspicious that someone who tends to also be a morning meditator type person might be someone who values a morning routine, might be a little bit more type A and is also more likely to take a quiz like this to understand themselves better. So there's that. So I wonder if part of the reason why in particular morning did well for this style is because uh, I don't know that type of a person likes a quiz. And then spiritual meditations were the second one which surprised me and it was really interesting. But the more that I think about it because there are particular meditations in like the spiritual category that do always do well. I just had never really like categorized them into one. But I think what my top performing category across my data on my podcast is sleep meditations. However, I have a theory about that too which is where my I would I sit and I think a lot. I might only work like 10 hours a week, but let me tell you, I spent a lot of time driving in the car like to preschool, drop off and pick up, um, and sitting in that line and thinking and contemplating. And I like to meditate and then after I meditation just, you know, sometimes your mind wanders. But, but my theory about that is because a sleep meditation is something that people incorporate into their daily routine and so it might be the same people that are listening to the same episode every night. Um, because sleep meditation was actually in the bottom half of um, my results. But anyway, so I found that to be really interesting. And yeah, I've had about 1200 people that have taken um, the quiz which I love that is just from organic traffic and, and things that I could be doing better would be talking more about it on the podcast. I don't do that as much um, to continue to remind people because of course you get that big boom right when you launch it. It's like fun and exciting. Um, I also want to do an experiment where I've been changing up and showing up a little bit differently. I think showing up better on social media, um, with some of my more, more recent reels and stuff. I don't know if you've seen it or not Kylie. But I'm trying to step up my social media game a little bit and I also do incorporate many chats into what I do and so I want to um, kind of dive into talking about this quiz in a way that is just very lightly touched, like a light hand. I have found in particular with like the many chats type stuff. You don't want to be heavy handed. It's just like a light, like a casual mention of like you know, um, and then running some ads to it and see what that does. So that's next up for the quiz is playing.

Kylee Chandler: Well there's. It's so exciting and I love that you're going to run ads but the cool thing is you already have it proven that it is working and that's when ads will work so well, which is so exciting. So I'm excited for that because, um, another thing I want to say is that my client Savannah, who launched a year ago in April, she launched her quiz, um, launched her program in September, had like a 77% revenue increase with 68% of people coming from the quiz funnel. She just messaged me last week and she said, okay, we're a year in. I had 10,000 people take the quiz. 8,500 people are on my email list from that. And um, she does so of course we had a big boom right away. And then she's been running cold, cold traffic ads which the CPL is so low because people love taking quizzes. And um, so I'm so excited for you to do that. Also on the buckets or the results. I agree with you. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like when somebody wants to go and do a meditation for sleep, you're not like spending the time like when I have a sleep meditation, I'm. I have a birthing, a hypno birthing meditation. Every day it's the same one. Like I'm not looking for a new one. You know what I mean? So I think that could be it.

Kelly Smith: But it is my top, I would say like organic, uh, search is people. The way that they usually stumble across me is that they're looking for a sleep meditation and then mine rank pretty high. But one of my main objectives and you know this Kylie, is because I, I don't, because I monetize the podcast. I don't actually sell a lot of things. In particular, it's a little bit different. I know uh, the way I use the quiz, like for me it's more about creating a better user experience but then also Categorizing my listeners so that then I can, you know, let them know when there's a new thing I can get more data on, like what they like, what they don't like, and then driving some people from the podcast and onto the email list. And that's kind of my, my biggest objective because I've sent more than one playlist and this was something that you and I talked about is I sent my first playlist that had. I did 13. I just like 13. So I did 13 on the first one and then I have it set up so 30 days later they get another playlist that has 13 more meditations. I could definitely do a third playlist for like all of those, um, because I have a lot of episodes. But my hope is that then it, it re engages people too and gets them listening to other episodes and really turn. I talk a lot about like in teacher trainings and things, how you can become instead of like a yoga teacher, a, uh, meditation teacher into like their yoga teacher and their meditation teacher. I'm sure you can relate highly because, you know, you have like your go to people, um, whether it be a yoga teacher or even like, you know, whoever's doing your hypno birthing, you're like, oh, yeah, they're, you know, my, my person that does that. And um, and so getting people to really listen and engage with the meditations and then that's really my hope is that then I'll become like their meditation teacher instead of like a meditation teacher. And um, so I don't have as many statistics as to like revenue changes and things like that because I really don't sell a lot. Maybe I should be selling more, I don't know. But I don't. And um, and so one of my main objectives was just to create this better experience and to get a little bit more action on some of the older episodes, which I do think it's been helpful for.

Kylee Chandler: I love that and I'm so glad you brought it up because people do ask, like, could I put this together to just nurture? And the answer is yes, yes, yes. It's going to give you so much information, so much data. It's such a, uh, unique, wonderful way to nurture people and get them on your email list than just have them listening to the podcast and then who knows what the future holds? Um, okay, let's make one more stop. I want you to dive in a little bit to monetization. Like, um, somebody who's new to monetization or wanting to monetize Guys, what tips and advice would you give? Because you are definitely a podcaster who is very seasoned and good at monetizing your show, and that allows you to do so much.

Kelly Smith: Yes. So again, I'm going to give it to you straight. And so here's what, here's what you need to know about monetizing your podcast. So by and large, especially like this day and age, um, like in a 2026 world in terms of monetization and in years past, like, ads were like the thing. And I do still run ads on my show 100%. The thing that you need to know about ads in particular is that a lot of times if you're going to work with any kind of like an agency, for example, I work with one that's called, um, Gumball. And usually they're looking for a minimum of 10,000 downloads, like within the first week on a new episode. And so to be able to basically work with some kind of an agency where then they are sort of the liaison where they just can book ads onto your show, they're usually only working with shows that have a pretty high at, ah, least by like indie podcaster standards. Right. Like people just, you know, like you and I and, and everyone listening. Or maybe we're not a part of a network. We didn't start with a big following and now, uh, our next venture is a podcast. Like we're just starting from the bottom and working our way up. Like indie podcasting is that they're usually looking for a minimum of those types of metrics. And then you can charge a CPM cost per milli, but it's basically like how much you can make per 1000 downloads. So the thing that about ads, and then I want to talk about some other ways that you can monetize because that is more what I recommend than ads. But I think ads are the thing that people are the most intrigued by because we hear them all the time on the big shows and we're like, how much money are these people actually making? So the big, big shows are making a lot of money.

Kylee Chandler: And.

Kelly Smith: But I would say what is standard for like a CPM? So for every 1000 times an ad is listened to, brands will usually pay you between, I don't know, 12 and $20, maybe up to 20. I have a little bit of a higher CPM because I only want to run at one ad before my meditations. And then like, I, I'm very frugal on the ads that I run. When you listen to those shows and, you know, you have like every like 15, 20 minutes, they have like eight ad breaks or like eight little mini ads. And they're all running like those people are making a lot more money. Because at the end of the day when it comes to ads, it's a numbers game, right? So even if you're getting paid $12 per 1,000 downloads, um, you know, if your show gets 20,000 downloads, whatever the math is on that, but then you can run 10 ads within an episode. Like that's where you really kind of make the money. And if you're part of a network, a lot of times they have people where their only job is just booking ads on the network. And so that's kind of the financial transparency piece of ads. I do run ads on show and I love working with a company that has helped a lot of taking, um, the weight off of having to like pitch brands and to do the back and forth of that, which is really helpful. I don't actually recommend, I, I don't feel like that's the way for an indie podcaster to really make a financial impact right now, um, in podcasting also the trend right now because how ads do and what kind of a CPM you get does correlate with like the general economy and things like that. Because marketing budget is usually the first thing that gets slashed or one of the first things that gets slashed. Um, I started monetizing my show really early because I was there with the big boom. And like I was, I think the original show or one of the top first three shows that worked with better help, um, to put ads on there because they were, they were like just starting and it was like an individual and it was a whole thing. There's this big boom of people kind of being like, you know, we want to get into podcast advertising. And I was working like individually with brands and it's really changed, um, in the last like six years how that all works. Other ways that I think you can monetize your podcast is to really use your podcast as a way to get people to know you on a deeper level. So that then when you have some kind of an offering, um, for example, like for me, my retreats that I do they, I would say like 80% of the people that come are usually podcast listeners. And it's because they've been practicing with me weekly for years. And so then when the opportunity comes to do a week long retreat in Costa Rica, for example, um, those usually fill up pretty quickly. And, and it's because we've been building this relationship for A really long time. And. And it's hard to know again, you know, they always say we're in, like, the trust in a trust recession. I think we're in, like, the trust Great depression in a way. And so when you listen to someone's podcast and you really get to know them and their motivations, you understand, like, why they do what they do, why they're creating what they're creating, that that makes it so much easier for people to get to know you and to trust you, and then when they're ready for whatever it is that you're offering. I've had people that, you know, just on my last retreat, I had someone who's been listening to my podcast for six years, and this was the first retreat that kind of worked for them. And they've been wanting to do it, but the timing just never worked. And so, you know, six years later, it worked. But when they're ready, they'll know exactly who to go to, because they already have that relationship with you. Um, I've also seen some, um. I don't even know how to categorize these, but I've been on other podcasts, and sometimes I'll, like, pitch other podcasts and say, hey, like, I'd love to talk about this. Whatever, whatever. I do know that people charge for interviews. And I do know, and I did not know that was a thing until someone responded bonded. And they're like, we'd love to have you on the show. It's a 30 $500 fee. And I was like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing that you could do. I've also gotten rate sheets back of will, um, mention your product now for this much like, there's other ways that people are monetizing. Um, but I would say really building the relationship and then creating something that solves one micro issue for your listeners is a great way to start monetizing. And so if you are a therapist, for example, I don't know, you're. You're an EMDR therapist, and you think about what is like one micro issue that people come to me time and time again, or what's the most common question people ask about EMDR therapy? Right. Is there something that I can create that's a low lift, maybe not that expensive for them, but it'll solve one micro problem. That's usually the train of thought that I want to go down when creating something that then I can offer to my audience to monetize in that way. So for me, um, one thing that I do I have a mini course that's called Mastering Guided Meditations. And it's only, it's like three one hour sessions. And it's truly like how I do what I do on my podcast every single week. So the first session is like, how do you write a guided meditation, Like a really good one. The second one is how do you record it in a way that's DIY but sounds like professional audio. And the third one is how do you take that meditation and then turn it into five different pages, pieces of content? Which is what I do. And that's it. And it's like 44 bucks. Um, so that's one. And then also I do a, ah, virtual retreat sometimes with my people. And so it might be like three hours. I, I sometimes I pre record, sometimes I do it live. But I do like a New Year's Eve one every year that's pre recorded that I share with my audience. And then it's like, it solves kind of this little micro problem for them of like, I want to have this meaningful, um, experience as I change into the new year. You know, us in the meditation space, like, we really like the whole like, you know, new year, new me, like set intentions, wipe this like clean, make a vision board, all of that. We, we love it. And so I do that every year. And it does really, really well because it's solving that one kind of micro issue as to like, how am I going to have a really intentional, positive New Year's Eve, um, that works towards sort of my bigger goals. Um, and so I do that. And I think those are more the type of ways that I would recommend monetizing a podcast. You can be making just as much doing things like that than you can be making. Because when you think about it with the math, if you get like what, a $15 cpm per every 1,000 downloads, even if you get 10,000 downloads, you're getting 150 bucks. Yeah, you can just sell a 15 product three times and not have to bother your audience with ads, for example. Now what I think the sweet spot is, is doing a little bit of both. And then once you hit that threshold and you can kind of, you know, have the size of maybe you have the traditional monetization piece of ads. And you know, I don't be too heavy handed with it because I do think it kind of cheapens the product, in my opinion. In my opinion. But then also having things that then help to solve micro issues for your, uh, audience I think is really the way to go.

Kylee Chandler: Oh my Gosh, this is so good. And I just like everything you're saying. I'm like, yes, yes, yes. I always say that. I'm like, uh, you know, people, yes, the monetization, the ads are very attractive, but. But when. If you have the trust of your audience and then you sell them something that you offer, that is so what they need, you're going to make all of that, obviously, without processing fees and whatnot, but you're going to make all that versus working with that. So I love it. The goal is eventually to use both, but such a wealth of knowledge, Kelly, I feel like we can continue to talk. And the cool thing about you and I is, like, yes, we love podcasting, and we're just like, so, so into marketing and business. So who knows, Maybe we'll have to do a version two down the road, but tell people where they can find you, and you have to tell them where they can go take the quiz so they can get a personalized playlist.

Kelly Smith: I love it. So you can, if you would like to learn about all things meditation, mindfulness, um, and beyond, or listen to a guided meditation of mine, I would love to have you over on Mindful in minutes. Um, if you are in the fertility, prenatal, postpartum portion, um, of your life, I would love to see you over on Meditation Mama. And then right now, if you head over to Yoga for you online dot com, even the main page, I have a popup. Or I believe you go to yoga for you online.com quiz and it'll take you there. And you can take the quiz. And if you're wondering what kind of a meditation archetype you are, you can find out and then you will get that personalized playlist.

Kylee Chandler: I love it, Kelly.

Kylee Chandler: It's.

Kylee Chandler: I'm so grateful you came in, that we collided worlds, uh, just over a year ago, and it's been so fun to see what you've done and just the magic you've created. And your podcast is such, such an important podcast for everyone. So thank you for being here. Thank you for taking time with me today and can't wait to see what you continue to do.

Kelly Smith: Oh, thank you so much, Kylie. I'm so grateful that, that we work together and that we got to chat today.