Localisation: Much More than Translation

Speaker A: Welcome to the show. I'm Patrick Daly, the macro to micro strategist, helping manufacturing and distribution leaders turn global turbulence into operational clarity. Welcome to Interlinks. On this show we connect the dots between geopolitics, economics and real world business so you can make smarter decisions, protect your supply chain and grow your bottom line. So if you to stay ahead of global risk, this is where strategy meets reality. So let's get into it. On this episode of Interlinks, I'm, um, going to be joined by Patrice, uh, Dussaud, um, a Montreal based professional working in the translation, writing and cross cultural communication space. So Patrice, welcome to the show. Delighted to have you.

Speaker B: I'm delighted to be here. Thank you very much for the invitation. It is a genuine, genuine pleasure.

Speaker A: You're very welcome. So you're joining us from Montreal in Canada. So you're a French speaking Canadian. Um, did I pronounce your surname correctly or how do you pronounce it when you're speaking English and how do you pronounce it when you're speaking French?

Speaker B: I pronounce it pretty much the same. Uh, but you did a very good job actually. Thank you very much for taking the time to um, articulate it, um, uh, accurately and uh, I appreciate the effort, but it came out really, really well.

Speaker A: Okay. And it means, it means of the jump or of the spring or something like that. Does it?

Speaker B: Actually, it means the. Yeah, of the spring. So S A U L T in French means a little spring. Yeah, so exactly. You, you've done your research and uh, yes indeed, it means of the spring. Because, um, in one of my family's properties, when they moved from Brittany to, uh, New France, uh, one of their properties was located, uh, on a land that was adjacent to the small, um, stream. And it was called Le Saut a la Puce. And it became a nickname before becoming an official surname. And originally, uh, my name was Breton, so a Celtic language related to Gaelic, obviously.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I was just going to say. I didn't realize your people were from Brittany. So you're actually a fellow Celt after all.

Speaker B: Yes, I am. We have that in common as well. And I'm a proud Celt, I must say.

Speaker A: So Patrice, to start off, could you tell us about your own background, uh, where you came from, I guess Quebec, and how you entered the translation, uh, and communication field and how your career has evolved over the years?

Speaker B: Okay. Um, I ended my studies with two bachelor's degree. The first one in history from the University of Montreal and the other one in management, uh, and finance from uh, Ecole des Hautes Commercial which is related to University of Montreal. And um, I started working right after that. I worked in management in small um, and medium sized, medium sized enterprises. And I did not feel at home there. So I switched to translation. I had been exposed to translation as a child growing up because my parents owned and operated a translation agency which was quite successful from the south shore of Montreal. And I had worked for them at one point for a short period of time and had uh, adored my experience. So I had a facility with languages. I grew up exposed to three cultures, my mother being half Italian. And I learned English very, very young. And also uh, during my bachelor's degree in history I had to write um, research papers totaling 600 pages over a three year period. So I was used to taking the pen or now the keyboard. And it came naturally to me. And since I fell into the translation space when I was little, um, I felt very comfortable very quickly inside it. I had a few mentors and I learned with them. And that's how I set myself up as a freelance translator in 1999. I started with a mix of translation agencies and direct clients. And I kept that mix with like more of a majority of transition agencies. I kept that mix for about 20 years. And uh, during the mid 2010s, I started taking on more direct clients as I saw a slight decline in demand from translation agencies. And after ChatGPT arrived in November 2022, I started feeling the backlashes from spring 2023 and I started getting um, involved in the world conversations about the evolution of technology, the evolution of the language professions and the evolution of the needs of our uh, direct clients, mainly in the private field. That's how it be.

Speaker A: So Montreal, you have this kind of multicultural background and I guess Montreal is a city, it's a French speaking city, but I guess um, there's a lot of English spoken there as well. So how did that environment influence you, the way you think about uh, translation, the way you think about cross cultural uh, communication?

Speaker B: I saw the advantages of cross cultural communications and bilingualism and multiculturalism actually very early on because I knew it opened all those factors opened doors on the uh, labor market, uh, both uh, locally and internationally. So uh, my personal relationship with Montreal's Italian community um, made me aware early on of the importance of international and intercultural relations. And I saw my parents um, running their own translation agencies with clients from uh, from Quebec, other parts of Canada and abroad as well. And I saw how they could help companies uh, communicate with the target audiences from foreign countries. They did it with a Belgian client for example which is a multinational. And that worked very very well uh for the client and for my parents as well. So that's how I was initiated with.

Speaker A: Okay. And for listeners, uh, outside the language industry, how has the translation uh business traditionally worked, if you like the translation business for business? And how has it changed over the course of your career?

Speaker B: Uh, the processes have changed a lot. Initially uh, 26 years ago when I started the emphasis was on um, quality, on linguistic quality, grammar, style, um, thoughtless French or flawless English or other languages. It was all about um, the luster from your pen reflected positively on the luster of your clients. And that was the old way to communicate. If you communicated in a very well, depending on your market positioning, if you communicated uh, in a very polished style, your company looked good um, doing so since, since ChatGPT, uh arrived and other AI based tools, um, the technology has exposed um, a uh few flaws from our translation, um business agents, uh, translation business or industry, uh, in the fact that for most administrative texts everything that is um, uh utilitarian in terms of communications can be generated uh by artificial intelligence and can be used after light fairly fast editing by professionals when it's um. So when the time comes to convey information only without any other purposes, you can trust AI to do a fairly good job provided that you have your communications or the AI output are professionally uh, edited. Now when the time comes for a company or another organization to rally, convince or sell, that's where the human expertise comes in. And that is why we have started for the, the in during the past few years to repurpose our skills that had already been honed for years and years and years and we repurpose them. For example, I can offer content auditing services for a European company, uh, already doing business, uh, in French speaking Europe. Now that company wishes to target the French Canadian market. And uh, although the official grammatical and stylistic rules are similar, there are regional expressions and there are ways to say things that are very different here. For example, we do not use any anglicisms uh, in Canada, uh, especially in written or more formal styles. Uh, but there are many other differences as well. So in order to help a company connect with a Canadian audience, I need to use the cultural references that the people here are used to hearing or reading in order for them to identify with a message. Uh, I also use content, offer content creation services which means writing and I've done that um intensively in the past as well. It's written in either specific Canadian French, I can um, as you mentioned yourself, I am as fluent with this, the language of the factory floor as I am with the board of directors language. And uh, that also is a nuance that I can add uh, to the client's communications. And um, I can also add, edit and what else I translate. And I can localize content as well. I can produce um, content in French in either international, very neutral international French, or more local Canadian French. So it's the use of the same skills. But instead of helping companies convey information, we help them solve problems. We study. Uh, we each have, my colleagues and I, we each have fields of specialization. So I, for example I only work with luxury, uh, watch and car manufacturers, especially the smaller ones who are expanding to new markets, French speaking markets in my case, uh, and oftentimes they're blocked, um, uh, by the lack of knowledge of foreign cultures. And that is what my colleagues and I, uh, provide. We help them uh, convey their message and ensure their message lands appropriately the same way in all languages. And so we solve problems. If you're missing out on a 20 million a year market share, you have a 20 million a year problem. You can fix it by addressing the communications and adapting them to the 20 million a year market that you're missing on. And that's what we do. We solve uh, communication based problems in import for import export companies. Yes.

Speaker A: So we um, I guess a lot of people may have experience of the power of AI in translating or converting words from one language to another. But how has AI changed the business in terms of the economics of the business or the client expectations or the workflow or the identity of the translator?

Speaker B: Okay, uh, workflow on one side, uh, is reflected in a complete transformation of our business model. We went from supplier to business strategic partner. We used to be a supplier. Whereas we would receive demands, uh, in our inbox, email inbox, as simple as that, or phone calls. And we'd receive documents, go over them, see if it's, if a specific document is in our field of specialization, then we accept the document, we accept the deadline and the rate and we just read the document and uh, go for all the terminological extract, all the terminological questions we may have, send them to the client, then uh, affect a first draft of the translation. We, then we use a stylist, a stylistic comparison, um, reading of both English and French or whatever your language pair is. And finally we do a fine final proofreading and we, we send the document to the clients. Now the processes are very different. We do not wait for the business to come in. We need a uh, professional marketing strategy that goes through LinkedIn in great part because LinkedIn is the world's virtual office tower. This is where we will find the import export companies that need our intercultural abilities uh, to help them conquer new markets. So uh, we have to go. We went from freelancers to uh, solopreneurs and it's uh, ah and uh, yeah so we become marketers, editors, writers, translators and so on. But we package um, our services differently like website auditing services and so on. So it's uh, we no longer charge by the word. Depending on the type of work that the client needs, we can uh, charge by package which is a value based price for uh, example. Uh, on the other side, on the side of the market, on the side of the clients, their expectations have changed. They used to send uh, work over to translation agencies or freelancers and expect uh, documents back in a language and without any other, in another language, without any other purposes. Now since they can do that in house with uh, AI based tools and have either uh, in house editors or ask uh, externalized um, help uh, from a transition agency or freelancers who will edit their AI output, um, uh that's one of their expectations. Now we, for the past couple of years my colleagues and I have been doing a lot of awareness and education work on the market explaining companies that we know their own, uh, their own buyers psychology, we know their triggers, their motivators and so on. And we can help them uh, convince their own buyers to buy their products instead of a competitors by using our intercultural skills. So uh, there are two sets of expectations now. One just having stuff translated. The other expectation is to help um, is to uh, expand activities uh overseas in foreign countries using intercultural skills. So those are two different approaches, two different pricing models. And the pricing model follows uh, the evolution of the business model itself.

Speaker A: And as you make that transition from commodity supplier to business advisor, how do you articulate or explain your value to a client who may still think of translation as a cost per word commodity?

Speaker B: Uh first the fact that the language professions are not regulated, uh we are legally allowed to change our job title and we don't like if you saw my LinkedIn profile doesn't say translator, editor writer on it anymore. It says communications consultant, uh, for luxury car watch companies. Because it is what I do, it's language advisory. I help people conquer new markets and that's how we help it. We only target small and medium sized enterprises that are fast growing but, but Whose growth is uh, being stonewalled in a region or another and going great in some other regions. And what we explained to them is that we just destroy the stone walls and help them enter new markets with the right um, intercultural skills and the right cultural codes, nuances, references and so on. We help them sell.

Speaker A: So you're helping them achieve a business outcome rather than giving them a deliverable.

Speaker B: That's the, that's right, yes. There's no deliverables anymore. It's a business outcome, it's results. And uh, we are acquiring more and more information about uh, and data about the results of our um, involvement with those companies. Like if you deal with us, you can increase Your sales of 20% in this market or this part of the world and so on. Yes.

Speaker A: As a consequence then it makes no sense to charge by word, which is kind of an arbitrary metric. You're now going to charge by your contribution to working in good faith with the client to get to that outcome that's desired by the client. Is that, would that be a fair way to put it?

Speaker B: It's a fair way to put it, indeed.

Speaker A: Okay, so what would be an example of a company um, not doing the right thing and putting their foot in a market? Do you have any anecdotes or examples of how that can go wrong and then what you would do about it to make it right?

Speaker B: Of course. I um, can talk about a uh, small watchmaker in the Netherlands using friends from France. Try and enter the Canadian market and not having results because people don't identify with the content because they're uh, neither the visuals nor the, the words resonate with their audience. Also I can give you another example.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: it's more than communication. Sometimes it's uh, in. It's the choice of stock that you're going to put uh, at the front of your website and the other types of stock that you're going to keep more in the back store because people you know will not communicate it will not identify with that type of product as well. I'll give you an example. Um, I do not work with this company but it's a striking example so it illustrates my point well. Um, Rolex is a very well known Swiss watch manufacturer and they have a wide array of timepieces offered to the public. Some of their um, models or references as we call them within the industry do very well in Nordic countries like Canada because they're more inconspicuous. There's like evening models with leather straps and so on and the sports stainless steel Models, they also have another model that comes in different, um, variety of material within a variety of materials, uh, including solid gold, yellow gold, even uh, rose gold. And some um, come with pave set of diamonds. And the dial is almost completely covered in diamonds on a black lacquer dial. And it's very conspicuous. It's a beautiful piece of jewelry I admit, and it's a high quality piece. It sells well in some areas of Southeast Asia, it sells well in the Gulf countries, but it will not sell well in Nordic countries like Canada where we prefer more inconspicuous pieces and we prefer eschonesours to uh, put more emphasize on the quality of the movement than extravagant materials, for example. So more movement, less conspicuousness. And so I advise my clients on that as well. I said okay, I saw your website, I see all your models and unfortunately this you should put on the last page and these models you should put on the first page because those um, those pieces, those models will find clients more quickly uh, with Canadian, uh, clients within the Canadian market. So advisory goes beyond just words and cultural references. It's also the kind of stock that you can put in front of the eyes of your uh, of your potential buyers.

Speaker A: Okay. So your, if you like process of engagement with the, with the client must be very, very different. Now so you mentioned before the way these kind of tenders or requests for quotation will turn up in your inbox. And that's totally, that has to be gone now from this model. So how do you um, engage then with clients pre contract as you have to build some sort of rapport and trust I guess even before you get to a proposal. Right?

Speaker B: Indeed, indeed. Uh, I myself studied uh, personal branding, copywriting and strategic marketing with a professional marketing consultant. And uh, she helped me establish my marketing strategy and editorial strategy in LinkedIn. And what I do is that I use uh, LinkedIn posts to attract attention to my experience, my skills and my community and what we offer also uh, to the latest trends within our profession. And there's other types of posts that uh, target um, ideal client profile specifically after uh, because I know them very, very well, they're in my field of specialization and I can also study them further if I wish to add more details. And I write posts that say you are in business development, ah, in this type of industry you're a small company and you're growing here and there, but you can't grow here. And I know why. I have the solution and I can help you increase your sales, uh, using intercultural skills and, and cultural references and so on. And I can speak in the way that will trigger a decision from your potential buyers and so on. So uh, that's how I target them on one hand and they reply in the comments and we start a conversation in the comment section. Also I made a list of ideal client profiles that I do follow on LinkedIn. Uh, in addition to following them I bookmarked that list on LinkedIn, uh, in the browser actually. And to make sure I never miss any one of their posts and everything I have something to say that adds to their post or triggers uh, important questions and so on, I comment under their post. So I use this second strategy to attract their attention and build rapport. I build rapport through um, post enhancing comments. I add information and they reply oh, I hadn't thought of that. Isn't that interesting? Okay, so and they start asking questions and I reply. And once you have a relationship going or a back and forth of comments going, I carry the conversation in the direct um, Message section of LinkedIn and I invite them to talk, to tell me about them about their business, about where they're going through, about what works well, what's not going well. And I never talk about them unless they have, they ask a very direct question. Not about my, it's not about my skills, it's not about me know having a mastery of grammatical rules because that is uh, obviously uh, that is obvious. It's what I, I've been doing it for the past 26 years. It's about solving a problem for client, it's a growth problem and that's what I keep the conversation on. Any ways they have read my, my profile, if they have other questions they want to go, they want to know which school I went to. It's all in my profile and uh, my accomplishments are there and so on. And so the client is at the center of the conversation.

Speaker A: So if you take a macro to micro perspective on this, which you know I like to do. So you're kind of addressing things at a ah, level of detail, um, say for example in an international supply chain and you've got various partners before we even get to the customers. So people cooperating across geographies, across language barriers and cultural barriers. So in global supply chains and international business, to business relationships, how important are these kind of language, um, cultural attunement, interpersonal trust, particularly when things go wrong in supply chains as they're going wrong all the time now.

Speaker B: Yes, indeed, uh, uh, geopolitical issues and trade wars, uh, do not help at all. Trust is one of the most important elements of any relationship, especially in international trade, ah, where. Where you have not known your interlocutors for a very long time. For example, it's all about trust. Um, it's um, about delivering. You start with very small thing, just enough to get your foot in the door. And you start with. By delivering a very simple service, you deliver it on time, the result is satisfactory. It, it matches the expectations of your client. And this, okay, I worked with this guy and I got the result I was expecting, so I have more work for them now. You, um, you grow from there, but you also, you always show up, you always answer questions. You, you're never vague or anything. You always answer, uh, with specific data. Um, I also know by learning from you and I, I also teach that to people, pupils who wish to affect the same transformation of their business models that uh, supply chains are now grouped in regions, as you've kindly expected to me. And those regions, uh, um, uh, come together to form new blocks and a western bloc and an eastern bloc. And it's, it's. It is best for our clients to stay as much as possible within their own block because as you've explained yourself and I explained that to my, My pupils supply, um, chains traditionally served, uh, a few functions like respecting deadlines and being seamless and being reliable and so on. Now there's extra factors like trade wars, uh, sudden hikes, uh, in fees and sudden disruptions because supply chains are disrupted in, or simply blocked. And there can be political decisions that hinder the progress of merchandise over, uh, across borders and so on. So it is, I tend to advise now people to stay within their own block and within their own region if possible. And uh, makes a difference because of, um. Yes. So I've been with, um, a colleague of mine in Quebec. Uh, we help people, we train people to go from translators to solopreneurs, uh, to affect the transformation of their business model and do exactly what I've explained earlier on this episode. Uh, it's a very long, uh, training program and it was created in France and it is credited by the French Ministry of Education. Ah, is now available for French Canadians. For now, it will be eventually translated into English for more international, um, uh, translators and interpreters.

Speaker A: Excellent. Well, thank you, Patrice. And we'll have to leave it, uh, there for now. And uh, it's been a pleasure talking to you, Patrice. Thank you. Thank you also to our listeners for tuning in again today. Feel free also to contact me directly on LinkedIn or through my website at albalogistics.com where you'll find all my contact details as well as lots of free content, including articles, blogs, videos and more. I'm always happy to connect, so thank you again for tuning in today and until next time, stay curious, stay resilient, and keep looking forward.