62: How to stay married while bootstrapping a SaaS (with Mel Tye)

Well, this is the start of the podcast. Yeah. All right. My first podcast ever.

First podcast ever. Yep. Well, if you're listening to this, I'm supposed to say an introduction, but Mitch hasn't given it to me. So I'm just gonna wing it.

Welcome to our B2B SaaS Journey. I'm Gavin Tye, CEO in sales and marketing, and I'm joined with a very special guest. My wife, I'll let her introduce herself because she doesn't know how to say her name. Hi, it's Mel.

Mel who? Tye. Yep. Mel Tye.

And what's your role at Six Eyes? I am the casual admin slash accounts slash grounder of crazy ideas. You are. If anyone has seen billions, like that lady on billions, what's her name?

Helen? No. Mary? Yeah.

Anyway. Think so. Yeah. Yep.

Wish I was that smart. Welcome to our B2B SaaS Journey. This is our second year of building a remote, tech company. We're a community led events platform.

Mitch is actually getting married this week. So I thought it would be great to have Mel on. It's her first podcast ever that she's participating on. And I thought it'd be interesting to get your perspective as a part as a casual worker, but also like observing how Mitra and I are building Six Sides and the journey of how we got here.

So thank you for joining us. I know you're really nervous. Really, really nervous. Yes.

All right. Well, let's start. Let's how did we meet each other? Cause I think that's a bit of a fun story.

You went through a bit of a tumultuous time. How did we meet each other, hon? Well, apparently you first met me at a previous role when we were both in previous roles actually, obviously. Can you cut that?

No, we're not cutting it. I'm loving you watching you squirm. So basically Mel and I, I worked for a business development manager for a recruitment company. Mel was an electrical, an admin assistant or an admin manager for an electrical contractor.

I remember seeing her was actually at the Enogra Army Barracks. I popped my head into a room and saw her and I was like, oh my gosh, she's amazing. But we never actually spoke until a couple of years later when she come and worked at Workpac. Do you remember that?

I don't ever remember seeing you on-site. Would have been lucky to. I remember seeing you at Workpac. Absolutely.

This arrogant salesman walking through the office like he was king shit. I don't think that's true at all. Absolutely how you were conducting yourself. But yes, we did, we worked together, I guess for probably nearly a year.

I don't think I was there quite a year at work pack. But yeah, we, you became my boss there. You forced me to do sales calls, which was far from comfortable. But it also just shone a lot on the fact that that was, that was not the job for me.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting how, when you thought that I was arrogant, how that can portray itself.

Cause I'm, when I walk into rooms, I don't know people I'm really nervous and I shut down, but it can present in a different way. Absolutely. It's also, obviously we had more of a deep dive on that after the fact, but it has also shown me too that other people could be in the exact same situation that nervousness can be portrayed as arrogance. We have a long standing conversation in the car when Mel gets cut off and she's like, I can't believe that decade did that.

Or she perceives it to be rude when someone could have just been having a bad day. And, yes, I think that's something that Anyway, this is not a self help podcast. So when we did meet each other, actually, when we were working together, we were both with different partners and, we lost contact for a little bit of time. And then I remember I was actually at a Melbourne Cup function with one of her friends.

I invited a, a client of mine and he bought one of your girlfriends and she was like, oh yeah, I know Mel Golding. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's a name I haven't heard of for a while. We caught up and went surfing. Well, you went surfing.

I just bobbed up and down on a surfboard. And then it kind of started, I guess where we are today. That was almost twelve years ago. Right?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Fun twelve years.

Fun twelve years. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Very quick twelve years. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Agreed.

Ten years married, just April, just gone. Yeah. We only realized the day before. Yeah.

So we have two beautiful children, Harper and Saxon six and Harper six and Saxon's three. And, yeah, they're a Just coming off the back of a challenging weekend. Yes. Forty eight hours with two small people.

In the rain? Yeah. Yeah. Fun times.

So I guess one of the things that really appealed to me when we met each other is we are very similar in many ways. We have the same sense of humor. We have very similar family values, I would say. You have a very established family.

I was trying to build one, but we are also very different in the way we process information. Absolutely. And challenges. Yeah.

Yep. Feel comfortable being uncomfortable. Whereas I am not so much. Yeah.

Yeah. Is to, that is to, that's an understatement to be fair. But it also, I think, so when I say we're different, how we process information, I'm very comfortable in starting without the full picture. Like even when it comes to stuff like around the family of, Hey, let's, let's, let's play a board game.

And I'm like, okay, let's go like read the first sentence and then we'll get started and read the rest. You don't process information like that. No, I need all the facts. Yep.

And it's structure. Okay. Yep. And why?

This is a podcast where we talk to each other and then you continue on the conversation. I did. I just said I need structure. Well, I guess it goes back to what I just said before about I'm not comfortable being uncomfortable.

Yeah. It's not necessarily about not failing. I'd prefer not to, but I just, yeah, it makes me feel sick inside. So I just like as much information as I possibly can to, to go away and then have success in whatever that may be.

And so how does that translate into your day? What do you do for the day to day for work? And then how does that translate into how you, you know, you work with businesses? I seek as much information as I possibly can about whatever the task at hand is.

Yeah. So I will deep dive to minute details in order to understand. And how does that help you? Well, look, I'd like to think I've been pretty successful so far in my work, But I'm not sure if I can answer that as to how it helps me.

It just makes me feel more comfortable before I go into a task. Yeah. Coming into this business has been very challenging because I have absolutely no understanding whatsoever about the technical things that you guys are doing, even from your own business, sales market fit then into, into deal buddy. Sales is not my thing at all.

But when we talk about what I've labeled a sales strategy, that makes sense to me. So how you're interacting with your clients and teaching them the skills to then go and implement that in their own business. I guess I've just, I've quizzed you to the Nth degree for you to explain it to me. Yeah.

The way that I look at it is if you can explain it to someone that is not salesy, then anyone can get it. I've said to you before too, you talk a different language and that's what it's like listening to you and Mitch sometimes when you're going into detail about, about six sides and all the different elements there, it's just like, I'm hearing complete different language. Interesting. Interesting.

You say that there's a girlfriend I had obviously before you, just to clarify, but she used to talk about policy and all this kind of stuff like governmental government policy. And when she would talk, I would go, I just don't understand what you're saying. I just do not see what you see. And I wonder if that's the same thing.

I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. Guess so.

But it's been really like, you've been loyal. We won't say where you work, but you work in the electrical industry, but you've been working apart from that role of a year and a half of coming to Workback, you've been working with the same person, same man, across a few different companies, but for just pushing twenty years now. Right? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. It's thirty, twenty, holy dooly twenty three years. Yep. Yeah.

With the same, with the same individual. Yeah. So you could say, I could see why that you are, you're the master of your domain in that space. Yeah.

That, that initial role that I took with an electrical company, it was just him and I, which was great for me and my career because I was able to do every little task within that business. And I had a safe, a safe space to learn as well. Yeah. So I don't, in all the time that we've been together, I have no insight into how that electrical business is run.

Right. But I haven't seen a massive change in the person that you are, because I think you had a bit of a, just bit of a hiccup or you, you were thought you were perceived, you're perceived differently than how you wanted to be perceived. And I think it really bridged you as a person. And then you've set out on a journey to be more understanding and more, I don't know, empathetic.

Yeah, absolutely. And I've seen that change of process in you in the last, I reckon five or six years, you've gone through a massive change. And I think how you see the world in that space, how you read situations and give advice. I think it's, you are massively, under that's what's the word you're not giving yourself enough credit for how you see the world.

And I think that's the most appealing thing of having you work with us in six sides or me particularly you're like a, a sounding board to see things from a way that I don't see them. So this has now become a self help podcast for you. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, just setting the scene, right.

Blowing the foundation. Join me after Mel's self help guide. If you want to book in a session with Mel, no, Can you tell us about that transition that you went through in the last few years? Was unknowing, I guess.

Returning to work after having Harper was really challenging. Just actually having Harper was really challenging. I came from full time, a full time role where I was a 100% in control to being a parent completely out of control. It still challenges me to this day.

Even yesterday we had a chat. I had to just call you jets Mel, call you jets. Yep. Which noted, took it on board.

Not perfect. Don't claim to be. But yeah, just, I guess it really came down to what the feeling that I wanted to take away from every single day and feeling overwhelmed and sad was, was not it. So I needed to stop taking on so much of everybody else's issues and just start looking after myself a little bit more.

So yeah, I guess I had to thicken my skin a little bit. Think I've just digressed though. Don't think that was your actual question. It doesn't matter.

No, it is like, I think you're saying is after Harper was born that the way you were interacting with the company had to change because you were five days a week, your finger in every pot, in every pie. You just, it's not like that anymore. Yeah. Couldn't.

Yeah. Had, I definitely had to let go of some of that. Because I couldn't cause yes, it was five days a week. I've never done a forty hour week.

It's always been a probably a sixty hour week. Well, even now it's still forty hours a week with three days. In three days. Yep.

But it works and I like it. Work gives me my, work gives me my kicks. I really like it. Yeah.

So yes. So with your, how have you dealt with on your side? Cause you said you like to be like, everything to the nth degree. And, and I understand that, but over the years I've had a lot of different business ideas and, some of them have just been a, like, I would say not a success.

Some would say failure. It's all about perspective. But then how do you balance, like, like trusting that I'm not gonna drive us off a cliff, like with a business idea and bankrupt the family or, and how do you balance that with me being able to start, like start something without a full picture? Even yesterday, I talked to you about something that I want to give a go and you're like just research.

I'm going, I've have, I've done a couple of hours on online. That's fine. But how do you balance that or how do you rationalize it in your head over the years? Well, to go back to your comment about you not driving us over a cliff, I believe that you would drive us over a cliff.

And my job is to rein you in because you get so excited about something and then off you go. And it just comes back down to communication, which is what you and I have worked very hard on our entire relationship and we'll continue to do that. So you do not make decisions in regards to the business, like big decisions day to day. That's, that's got nothing to do with me, but the big decisions in those, in the business is discussed together.

We make that together. Yeah. And I think that that is really, really important because we are a team whilst I do not know the daily ins and outs of the businesses. I don't need to cause that's, you know, you're, I allow you.

But just going back to that same statement about driving yourself a cliff, you know, we have had our challenges where you have made some big decisions without. Into where that course? Oh, I am absolutely talking about that $20,000 course where you just, when it was 18. Yeah.

Well, let's round up where you made that decision without, I don't want to say approval because it's not like that. We are a team and we do make these decisions together, but ultimately the decision was made without my consent. Was final agreements? Cause I believe that I got it, but you didn't believe it.

Still making me feel sick in the insights. Yes. So it was a learning for both of us though. Like that decision was made and then that had a huge financial impact on us.

And for me personally, that felt like we weren't a team. And I guess that was, that was challenging emotionally, mentally, and then, financially as well. So it just, it just comes back down to our communication style that we are always, we are always trying to improve it. And we are very much, we are very different in that space.

I don't know how we got here again though. Sorry. Right. No, no, that was, that was good.

So I've had a few business different ideas, six sides, the sales market fit and six sides or deal buddy. Aren't the first businesses that I've tried, like over the years, we were just saying before on a walk, like we've had, I've tried a few different things. Yeah. Yep.

Have. Yep. It's been great. It's been a very fun adventure, but ultimately I know you hate me saying this, but you are a natural salesman.

It is what you are good at, but not in that cheesy car salesman. It's just that you see a product and you can see that product's worth, and then you are able essentially to sell it. That's how I would summarize your sales skills. It just happened to be that maybe those products, whilst you could see the value in them, Not everyone else could see the value in them.

So that's why I wouldn't say it was a failings, but it was also a pretty half assed attempt. Yeah. Well, one thing that like let's, we'll list a few to remember that. So I've got a bit, a bit of time.

So we got into, I got into drop shipping. I did a couple of drop shipping courses. Some of them were before you, like China import or China importing course. No, no, we were together for that.

When I went to the course. Yep. And, and, Yep. You got a, you got another online course for that as well.

Yeah, I did. And so that was, I think I did dog mats, and that didn't necessarily go aboard maybe all the lights. Remember the lights? I do remember the lights.

Yep. Yep. So I've gone through a couple of different lessons. I bought these big lights that you would maybe find at a bar or there were cubes that would change different colors.

Unfortunately, because they were so big, the shipping on them was astronomical and that didn't quite work out. Then I did what the blowup, the mattresses in the back of the car was another one that didn't work. But all this was learning for me because I realized that my, I wasn't passionate about that stuff. And I'm like, as soon as I was like bored, cause I get bored pretty quick.

And I'm like, oh, well, I'm not that interested in it. I can't, could never see this mate. Like I could never see this making it, over time, but I was trying all these different things and I we did Cards Against Humanity for a little while. We got some of those and we're selling them online, I think.

Then I got some three d glue guns. Remember the three d pens? I don't remember those. Yeah.

I did it with a Gokkadian fellow that I Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We put 10 of them, tried them.

There's been, there's been a lot, there's been a lot, but I guess it actually goes back to what you were saying before about being bored. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think that your passion is coming up with the ideas and then selling the ideas, but not so much the doing of the selling of the product. Yeah. So that's why I think for you, the six sides slash deal buddy is so great because I see you come into these businesses and hear people's ideas of what they're selling and, and then assisting them to come up with different ways of presenting their businesses.

That's what I think gives you the kick and you're great at that. You are so good at that. Thank you. Yeah.

I do think when I, if I look back on those, that importing stuff, drop shipping, it wasn't drop shipping. It was importing. If I look back at what that was, that was an exercise in getting over the fear of starting something. Like it was like, yeah, I'm just going to give it a go.

Right. And once I did that and then I inadvertently worked, cause I went to Redeye, which is what really changed for me as a person. Cause Workpack was just an old, like a standard sales job at Redeye, which was a software job, got me in the software industry changed fundamentally changed who I was. I went through a massive learning curve, but I essentially, what, what was born out of that job was a passion.

This, the passion was born out of that job because I was traveling. I dunno, was there anything else traveling for three out of five days in most weeks when we were together? Right. That's probably why we lasted.

But I did learn, like my passion was helping people see things through a different light of selling from there. And then that led me to start sales market fit, which I can't let go. Like it's somewhere it's not like buying dog mats or something. Right.

It is something that I'm deeply passionate about deeply. I think I'm deeply skilled in it. Yes, you are. Absolutely.

That's what, that's what I'm saying. And I think that's why too sales market fit will continue to be a good it's, it's a great idea. Yeah. Successful.

Yeah. So how did you handle from your side of the fence? Cause I, I was working for a few different businesses full time and I was doing sales market fit, on the sidelines. Like I was getting up in the morning and doing it early in the morning.

I joined, I had done a few courses to try to support it. Think Including a $20,000 one? No, that was later on, but I did do, you did. I remember, I I remember you and I I'll come back to that in a second.

We were in a flight one time and I really I think you just know how to get me interested in ideas when you really want to. Because we were in a flight one day, you just opened up a magazine and you were like, NBA. And I was like, yeah. And that's all you said to me.

And it was actually Seth Godin's NBA. I think that you showed me, I'll, I'll, I'll NBA, I think it was. But then I was like, yeah, I might as well do that. And then I, that's all you said.

You didn't say you should do an MBA. You just put planted that scene in my head. And I was like, yeah. And then I went and completed an MBA.

Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. I actually do. We were going to Tasmania.

I think so. Yeah. Yes. I do.

I do remember that. I remember reading it. So it must've been after multiple different ideas because it was, oh God, I hope I say this, the entrepreneurship. Yes.

So it would have been after the multiple attempts at, at, at selling different products, but yeah, I guess just trying to streamline whatever your thought processes was, which to be honest is all I do now. So my role there hasn't changed. It's just about trying to, you go off on all these little tangents and it's just about trying to put them all back on one path. So they make sense.

Yeah. Cause I remember you did, cause I finished that just early twenty twenty or 2019, which means I would've started that in 2017. You were still doing it when Harper was there. Yeah.

Had the last six months to go. And then, yeah, I know I started doing all these other, like I was working and I started sales market fit. I was like, cause when I left red eye and how did you juggle when I come to you and was like, I think I want to do this full time. How did you rationalize that for yourself?

Because that was a massive risk, like to go completely full time in salary, like into the business. Yeah. Guess by that stage you'd been doing it on the side. And I say that pretty loosely for so long that if you were going to do it, you just needed to pull your finger out and actually do it.

And at that stage, wasn't really a 100% sure on what it was that you were doing so to speak, but I just believed in the snippets that, that you were telling me. Yeah. That you were right in what you were saying and that there was a gap in the market and that you had a product that could fulfill that gap. The other thing too, is that I had overheard you having conversations with other people as one of my girlfriends in particular, who is also in sales.

So you guys speak the same sales language. I say, Yeah. And just how highly she spoke about you and what your product was that. Has it still has stuck with me now.

And I guess that for me was affirming in the sales side of it because I just don't, I don't have that understanding. Yeah. So I saw her passion in your passion in the product itself. Yeah.

So I was like, oh, that's cool. And even when I had heard you talking to other people about it, I guess it was again, that, that, it was going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really interesting. Like when I made the decision to go with, to do sales market fit and I was like, okay, this is going to be the vehicle to get us to where I want to go in life. And it's like, when I made the decision to go to Gladstone, when I was 30 to change my life, I wanted to buy property and get into property. And I thought it would change my life.

It did, but it wasn't that decision. That decision enabled me to, on this journey to get to where I was today, the property thing didn't quite work out up there for a few reasons, but the sales market fit stuff. I was like, yeah, that's it. But what it ended up doing is like what you said, it helped me refine my messaging and put it into a structure or the strategy and put it into a structure that could be taught to others.

And it helped me get it to a point that it's repeatable and that ultimately led me to Mitch. Yeah. Without doing that, without, I wouldn't have, without doing that, without working for CV check or these other businesses in between time, wouldn't have, I wouldn't have met Mitch. So all of this stuff has in hindsight, very impactful, but indirectly impactful, which I think has been really, you can only find out through hindsight.

Absolutely. And also you still could have met Mitch along the way at somewhere else, but it wouldn't have resulted in six sides. Yeah. You guys just would have been like high and buy, whereas now business partners.

Yeah. Yeah. So obviously we've been doing sales market fit and then sales market fit turned into deal buddy, which I've talked about a little bit, which is a software version of sales market fit. It's the next iteration.

And so when we started talking about, when I, when I talked to you about Mitch and he come and he come to me with the idea was called event kit back then. How did that make you feel? Because that wasn't putting another thing onto the plate there. How did it make you feel with, yeah, when I brought up that topic?

It was cool. Like obviously you sold it to me and it was Apparently I don't have a problem with that because I'm a natural salesperson. You don't, that wasn't the issue. Yeah, it was, it did.

It's it seemed exciting and it seemed to make sense in the fact that Mitch isn't a salesman. He is the product guy. And I think that I'd spoken to him a couple of times before. I wouldn't have said like I knew who he was, but yeah, I'd spoken to him, but yeah, I was, I definitely had my hesitations because I didn't want you to move away from progressing through that transition sales market fit into deal body.

And obviously we're just talking about business names there, but yeah, because I am, I have a passion's not the right word, but I'm really excited about deal buddy. I think it's so cool. And I just, I just didn't want that added distraction. That's what I'm trying to get at.

I didn't want that distraction because you are absolutely easily distracted. But I could definitely see that there was something cool that you guys were trying to create. And yeah, so I was like, all right, here we go again. We're just going to have that little junction in the road and we're just going to keep going around.

For context as well, like it wasn't long before that we decided, or we developed a MVP of Deal Buddy, which was a $30,000 $35,000 exercise. Yep. Right. And then coming off the back of that, that course decision where, where we're like, we're not gonna make any decision like that until we're both on the same board, the same, on the same page.

And then we talked about that iteration. You're like, yeah, absolutely. And, like after a bit of understanding the bigger picture and they've, and I can appreciate that coming to you with six sides, I'm talking about six sides. And, and I would imagine you'd be thinking what we just spent this money on this and now you're gonna go pivot.

Yeah, definitely. Yes. Yes. Sorry.

I blacked that out of my memory, but yes, there was the, yeah, the financial impact of that as well. Because obviously neither of us are loaded being Mitch and us. And so we are funding that ourselves. So yes, there definitely was the money side of things as well.

I guess it just came down to the fact that we had those conversations that you guys could, you could make it work and that, you know, you'd really deep dived with Mitch and I trust you that you never willingly going to put us into a situation that is not going to be a positive one for us. Yeah. Yeah. That's obviously still an element of risk, but we summed up all the pros and cons and went, let's do it.

So when it how important is it that you, you liked Mitch or trusted Mitch in this process? Because you've seen, you have not agreed or have not thought highly of some people that I've worked with in the past and we, yeah, yeah. Personality or people, sorry. Yeah.

You have a new, you have a different read on some people that I do because I relatively, I think I'm willing to forgive some certain flaws and, you are pretty ruthless. That I would say that. Yes. Yep.

Yep. I agree. Not always right either, but still ruthless. Yep.

You're really important. You're very black and white. There is no gray with you. Yeah.

Oh, sorry. There's a little bit more gray now, but Yeah. Yep. It, it was really important.

Yeah. Definitely that, that Mitch was a decent human being. Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

Was that the question? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So before we did, do we have the dinner? Was that before or after? I think it was after. Didn't say that because I was just trying to think the same thing.

Like when did we really start to interact a bit more with Mitch? When did I, sorry, I think it was after, I reckon we'd already, we'd made the call that we were going to give it a crack and just go from there. But yeah, we did, we organized the dinner via zoom. So we had, it was Gavin and I and the kids, and then Mitch and Nicole and their little pups, which was lovely.

And just made it a little bit more personable. Yeah. He talks about the time that he come up and stayed here that night on the lounge. That was his highlight of 2025.

Oh really? That is so lovely. That's really cute. He loved it.

It was really cool. Really liked it too. Actually. It feels like Mitch has been part of the family for forever.

Yeah. And actually that feeling when I started interacting with Mitch came straight away. Like I was comfortable with him. He's such a friendly guy.

There's something about his voice. I, and I cannot articulate this. I've tried so hard to tell him as well, but there's just something about his voice that fills me with joy. I love hearing him on the phone to you.

It doesn't even, I'm not even listening to what you guys are saying, but I just love his voice. Yeah. And you love when you described himself as a, as a thumb. Is the best thing I've ever heard.

Yeah. He's just an awesome dude. And when he was here, that was great. Him and I just talked shit on the lounge for so long and it was comfortable.

It was easy. It has always been that way. Yeah. Yeah.

He is a great human being. And I feel, I feel like you go on that initial feeling that you get for people. Cause there've been so many times when we've had contractors or someone come into house go, oh, he's a really good guy. And I remember one guy, he gave us a quote for $70,000 to repair the roof.

I was like, sign me up. I was like, what? And, but I agree, like, think what we're going to do here is there is a blurred line between work and life like home. Right.

So, yeah, it wasn't just a, it wasn't just a business decision. It was a personal decision as well. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. And then seeing Nicole too, like, I don't want discount that either, but that was really lovely. Just having that, having that dinner, we keep talking about that we're going to do it, going to do it. And we haven't got there, but it just, for me, it feels like it was last week that we did that.

Yeah. Yeah. She's part, she's just as much of a part of this, as this journey as Mitch, I guess. Hear Mitch's voice more than I, than I do Nicole, but yeah.

We were lucky enough when we got the news for the world police games, which I'll ask you about in a sec, both times Nicole just happened to be in the room. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah.

Just sitting off to the side. So she, she was there when she, when she got to hear the news from the police games. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So how has it felt?

How's it been for you? Like observing these last, it's been eighteen months. I remember Mitch and I were working over Christmas on '24 when we were away today. How was it?

How has that been for you observing how we developed the business over this and the, was it the tribes and tribulations? Is that the right word? What's, is that what's the saying? That?

Sure. Yeah. How has that been for the last eighteen months seeing, seeing us build the business? It's been fabulous.

I hear you both. This sounds like I'm like a bit of a creep, hanging outside the office, just listening, I guess, because I do work from home one day a week. I hear a lot of conversations that you guys are having. And then Monday I'm, you know, toe in the water helping a little bit.

So I get, I hear more conversations, but I've heard you both grow as individuals within the business, which has been amazing. And then you're each taking in my opinion, sorry, that you guys have each taken your experiences within your own businesses outside of Six Sides and then brought them back into Six Sides as well. So your leveraging off each other's experiences, which in turn has been fabulous and you've both grown. So, yeah, I think that's, I think that's really cool.

And even just your own relationship between you and Mitch feels like that has strengthened as well. And I don't see it as just a business partnership. I see it as a friendship. Yeah.

And it like, it feels like, it feels like Mitch is part of the family. And I think that's why when he came to visit us, it was so lovely. Like, you know, he doesn't know. He really doesn't know us, even you, although obviously guys speak a lot from a bar of soap, but he came and stayed in a house with our kids and they gave the kids gifts, which was so lovely, completely unnecessary, but so lovely.

So, you know, he's coming into our family home as part of our family. Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, because we don't interact a lot with Nicole, but I would still say that she's part of our family as well.

Yeah. Too much. So we're going to their wedding on Friday on Absolutely. The And that's so fabulous.

Like, love that. How lucky are we that yeah, that our little family group has extended. Absolutely. Yeah.

So yeah, I think it's, I'm really lucky that that that's happened to me personally as well. And it's really cute. The kids, like when we get home, if you guys are on online together and the kids come in, it's like, hi Mitch, how's it going? Yeah.

And even just, you guys were talking about, or sorry, Mitch was saying about how he's going to come up later on in the year and he's planning on coming and staying with us for a night as well, which is awesome. Yeah. I think he's gonna stay for a couple of days. Awesome.

Like even better. The weekend, I think he's going to stay Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, maybe. Yeah. But there's no uneasiness about that.

Yeah. And I am sure that a lot of people can't say that in their businesses and you know, some people don't want that, which is totally fine. But for me and us, that, that was, that was a big thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I do think it's an evolution over time because I've had to learn how to, when I was working at Redeye for instance, managing people, at Workpac, when I work with you, I wasn't the best leader. I wasn't the best boss. I was doing something that I wasn't set up to do well, or I wasn't skilled enough to do.

And I've tried to incrementally improve over time. And the same as with Mitch, like I think, both of us together are way stronger than we were individually. Like we round out our skillset to, to something that's amazing. Absolutely.

And that has led us to being fortunate enough and fortunate enough, or actually worked really hard over the last ten years to put us in a position to win the world police games. I would say probably that. Yeah. Yeah.

I discourage you from saying fortunate because it didn't just land in your lap. Nothing has. You guys have both worked really, really hard in your own space and then together within six sides to, to create these opportunities that you have then been successful in because someone else has seen that. Yes, we want this team as part of our team.

Well, and then we also haven't, we haven't spoken about this publicly, but we also won our second biggest client, like on Friday night. So today we're recording this on Monday. So we've talked about the civil contractors federation and they've signed up for the next twelve months as well, which is our second biggest contract, which has been great as well. Yeah.

Which again is hard work from both of you. Yeah. So now we're moving into the next stage here of team management, which is, is, which is really exciting. I'm really looking forward to that.

So what, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I guess it's just progression isn't it in the business, which is fabulous and how cool that this is where the business is at, that you need additional support. Yeah. But finally working, we've been working hard in the business because we like doing it part time right now where we're starting to build on work on the business.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried about it or apprehensive. Because I agree that management is, is not a strong suit of yours.

And I, like I was obviously sat underneath you in, in that work environment. But what I will say that even back then when he forced me to make those sales calls and I didn't want to, you were 100% supportive of me. So yeah, I didn't, I did not want to do it, but you were encouraging. You knew that I could do it and you pushed me to do it.

I did it. Yeah. So I definitely didn't feel like I was hung out to dry or anything like that. Just such a strong word.

It's what happened. Just didn't want to do it. Was like, I did not sign up for this. But yeah, so to go back to what I was saying is that management is not a strong suit of yours, that's, to rebut that is that if you don't know how to do something, you will go and you will seek to improve.

So whilst you, you might not be great. You're already trying to be better. That's all that anyone can ever ask. Yeah.

I do think the last couple of years as being as a service provider to businesses as well, it's kind of had to help me be more Improve how I deliver certain messages to not be so, cause I can be quite direct. And, and if I'm like that with a, with a customer, they could just quickly, okay, great. Fantastic. Well, just end it right here.

And, so I've had to like pay a lot of attention to how people like to deliver information. Definitely. And we I remember we were in Southwest Rocks, we're driving over that ginormous bridge into the clouds. It looks like you're on some kind of scary road.

We were talking about that and about how, I think that was actually when I first was able to come up with that analogy, like that you speak a different language and these people, they don't speak that language. So you need to come up with a better way of being able to communicate that message. You love your epiphanies. So yeah, I'm skilled at it.

You are skilled at it. I would endorse that on LinkedIn for you. Yeah. But that, I guess it just goes back to that.

You didn't have that skill and you're, you are always open to feedback. You might not agree with it. Like all of us don't necessarily agree with it, but you are always open to it and you will go away and you'll think about it. And if it's something that you see fit, then you will obviously go deep dive.

So, and I see that that's what you're doing now with, with your additional resources. And even with Mitch, you know, like you guys are different people and I think you've been far more understanding of a, of a different personality than what I've seen you with in the past. So yeah, I believe that you're evolving more as a person within the businesses. Yeah.

And in life. Thank you. Yeah. So what would you say to anyone that's listening to this podcast?

Like say there's someone, a founder here, like a founder who's wanting to start a business, but wants to take like, make sure that they're on the same page as their partner. How, like, what advice would you have for them? Yeah, let's start with that one. And then I'll ask you some advice for like a partner of a founder.

I guess for me, it just goes hand in hand. It really comes down to, I believe what your, how your relationship is structured. Like we were not, Sorry. Our whole relationship comes down to communication and that we are a team that is really, really important to both of us.

Cause in the beginning of our relationship, our communication strap like style was not matched and it would, you would get a lot really offended about certain things, although they were right. No. And then vice versa. But we would sit down and go, I remember you sat down a few times and vice versa.

We would sit down and go, Hey, this isn't working for me. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And we're like, okay, let's change. And both of us would change until we met some like in a place that was like, okay, that's, that's working for us both.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's not to say that we don't still have big blowups We do absolutely do. We have some doozies. But for me and for us in, in this adventure, because it absolutely has been, it was really important that I didn't need to know the ins and outs of everything, but I needed a understand a holistic understanding of, of everything.

And then there was some fundamental decisions that I wanted to be a part of. And obviously money was one of those because we were, we were funding this, like you were moving away from a full time job. So your income stream was going to change from being a paid employee to, to you having to go and find all that work. Yeah.

Like, and like, just to be clear, it's not a rosy, it's not, it's not an easy ride. Right. We're barely in some months barely scrape by and if not go backwards. Yeah, Yeah.

So that's interesting. So like, I would say that if we didn't have our communication, like to suit either one of us, because there has been some challenging times in the last, since I've been doing this, 2020 or full time since it's probably five years now, that it would cause a lot more challenges in our personal life, but we will always able to go back to reset the foundations. So, yeah. So to go back to your question for the founder, is just, how is that going to impact your personal life because your work then becomes your personal life as well.

And you can't be, you can't be prepared for absolutely everything, but just making sure that the financial status of everything, I guess, is agreed on as well, because that, that does then have an impact on your family. Yeah. And what about to round it out? Like on the other side of the coin, the partner or someone like, how do you, what would you say to them?

It's probably a little bit more challenging to be honest, because I think where you and I still are, struggle's not the right word. We're just not quite aligned is that it feels like you want to tell me absolutely everything. And I'm just not that interested in the minute detail. So I guess it's just again about, it does definitely come down to the communication and about understanding what you each want from the interaction or sorry, the, not the interaction, sorry, the business itself, and just being understanding, cause I am definitely not understanding of your feelings sometimes, you know, like, and that's not fair on you.

Yeah, I guess nutting that out right from the get go. Yeah. And what, because for some people, you know, they might have, they might have a lot more of a financial backing. So that's not such a big, that's not such a big thing for them.

But yeah, it's just those little elements. I'll be honest with you. Zoned out. Yeah.

I agree. I agree. But I also think it's in that particular case, when you said, I wanna tell you things, it's the working from home all day alone. And then finally you're home and I want to bounce some ideas off you.

And you're like, fucking hang on a second. I haven't even put my bags down yet. It's like, it's like, you're a puppy out the door wagging your tail. And I know that I'm in for a fun thirty minutes, but it's just the version of when, like you hear like moms at home with their kids and that the partners sit home and all they want to do is talk normal.

And it's a version of that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Hence why I said, I'm not always understanding. No, no, you're not. Could be better. Yeah.

So thank you, for being on the podcast. That was the first one. You're not, you're not nervous anymore. You've even ignored the microphone at the Yep.

Yep. Well, you've been nervously folding socks the whole I have been nervously folding socks. Yep. Efficiently too, might add.

So if people want to connect with you, where, where can I find you? Nowhere. On LinkedIn. Can they?

I don't even know if my account's still active. Yeah. It's there. Yeah.

Oh, good one. Anyway. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Thank you. And to anyone that is listening, it founders or their partners, go for it. Yeah. You don't want to die trying, right?

Absolutely not. And best of luck on your journey. And it's fun too. Like, think, I think it's just fun.

Like we had some good conversations and especially looking back over to eighteen months right now, like only in recent weeks, we signed a big deal. We've, we just got another one, on Friday. Like that doesn't happen overnight. Like you have to work towards it's been eighteen months and this whole thing will be a ten year overnight success or fifteen year overnight success.

So, That statement makes no logical sense to me. People who read would. That's insulting. Anyway, thank you, hon.

Did you learn that on your $20,000 course? Yes, I did. Yeah. Excellent.

Yep. Yep. Alright. Thanks everyone.

Have a have a, great week and we'll see you next week when Mitch can talk about his wedding and the great, the great event. See you later. Bye.