Most Leaders Focus on the Wrong Skills. Here's What Actually Matters.

Speaker A: That came from making a lot of mistakes earlier in my career when I was focused, head down, working on my company, trying to build it and probably not balancing my life enough and stressing out too much and paying the price. I mean I would get sick more than I should have and which takes you offline and makes you unproductive. So that doesn't work. And, and then a lot of anxiety I think, and just stressed out. And when you're anxious and stressed out, you're not performing. Big thing that I always insist on of our, all of our leaders is develop your number two. You have to have a number two. You have to have a person behind you that you're developing, that you care about, that you can delegate to properly, that can grow right behind you and that can take over your job if you get hit by a bus. And that's really important for the sustainability of your organization.

Speaker B: Hello, it's your leadership coach, Estelle Reid and host of Optimizing Leader, uh, Brilliance. The place for calm, um, confident and strategic leadership. Stay tuned to the end for a mini coaching and reflective practice. Find out more about my services by heading over to estelle read.com. today's guest is going to give you three things. A masterclass in creative leadership, a blueprint for double digit business growth, and um, a perspective on how art, architecture and vision come together to dominate any industry. My guest is Lawrence Armstrong. Artist, architect, chairman, philanthropist and um, New York Times best selling author of Layered leadership. Drive double digit growth and dominate your competition with creative strategies and execution. So welcome Laurence Armstrong. Um, I was saying earlier, wow, you know, what a lot you're involved in. So to get a sense of who you are, what makes a typical day for you, what does it look like? Do you have any non negotiable routines?

Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. First of all, thanks so much for having me on. I'm excited to be here. And yeah, I, So I spent 28 years as CEO of our organization building it and I transitioned to chairman uh, a few years ago and I'm um, in a buyout right now, which is awesome. And so my day has become much more multifaceted, which is exciting. So I may spend time on my art, obviously on my book, on my philanthropic pursuits, trying to work out, make sure I'm staying healthy. And I still spend a little time on my company and various other things as well. Um, what's non negotiable, I guess are my workouts. You know, I've learned over time that, you know, and I make kind of a big deal about that in the book, that your personal health and well being is important and it should be non negotiable because it allows you to do everything else you want to do.

Speaker B: Yeah. And how did that come about for you in terms of health and well being being non negotiable?

Speaker A: Yeah, it came from making a lot of mistakes earlier in my career when, you know, I was focused head down, working on my company, trying to build it and probably not balancing my life enough and stressing out too much and paying the price health wise. So over time I, um, really, my wife is my best coach in this way, helping me to do this, you know, just scheduling, I think with another person, be that a trainer or a Pilates instructor, kind of a regularly scheduled workout that you have on the calendar so that it's not just, well, maybe today I'll work out at lunch or maybe after work I'll go work out, you know, which know, ends up being very sporadic and doesn't happen and all kinds of reasons why it doesn't happen. So uh, for me anyway, you know, once you schedule it and you can commit to it, uh, you can keep and you see the results. So that's exactly.

Speaker B: And, and that, that links to a study about goal attainment that apparently when we have an accountability buddy, we achieve our goals, we increase the chances, something up to 95%. So that makes really good sense. And so I'll show you mine and I'm hoping you'll show me yours. So I, I hear you entirely running a business and for any listeners, um, that lead companies, we can end up, uh, making mistakes when it comes to our health and wellbeing. We, and I ended up burning out. I ended up with me and chronic fatigue. They said there was no cure and, but I'm in the right occupation and I absolutely went from not being able to climb stairs to being able to climb Wainwright. These are mountains in the Lake District where we live. So what. How did those mistakes not balancing work, life, how did it impact you? How did you pay the price?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, couple ways. I mean, I would get sick, uh, you know, more than I should have, and which takes you offline and makes you unproductive. So that doesn't work. And, and then a lot of anxiety, I think, you know, and just stressed out. And when you're anxious and stressed out, you're not performing at your best. So those are kind of the things I had to overcome over time. And it was kind of incremental for me. I had to kind of learn a step at a Time, how to, how to deal with that. Ah, and sort of overcome it, you know. Yeah.

Speaker B: And this is that part of your book, the Layered Leadership?

Speaker A: It is, it, there's, there's, the book is um, also multifaceted, but there is a section in there about, um, taking care of yourself. And um, I call it sort of my personal health manifesto. I also have my personal, the personal financial manifesto in there because you want to maintain personal financial health so that you again, maintain that discipline so you can focus on what you want to focus on and not, uh, worrying about, you know, being upside down financially. So that's another aspect that's in the book. Um, and those are just, you know, I think an area where, um, improving and developing yourself as far as in support of developing and running your company. And so it's all part of what I call whole brain leadership. Bringing creativity to leadership and multiple layers into leadership to be successful.

Speaker B: What's your definition of whole brain leadership? What does it mean to you?

Speaker A: It's really important because as a creative, I'm an architect and an artist. So uh, creativity is part of what I do every day. But you go to school and you learn how to be an architect and you end up managing and leading people and being responsible for a vision of a company. And so it's a little different. But you can use the skills I've discovered. You use the skills you've learned in leadership. And so whole brain leadership is kind of like, look, we're all, we all have strengths. Either we're creative or we're analytical. And architecture is a very whole brain kind of profession. You have to have both. And uh, you know, if you apply it to leadership and what inspires you and what you're trying to achieve in building a team and building a company, it benefits you to build and build skill sets on both sides of your brain. You know, being creative in terms of what are you inspired by and can you use that to inspire a company vision versus if you're running a company, you should be able to read a balance sheet and understand the financial aspects of your company and that sort of thing. So there's a lot of discussion in there about that sort of thing. And um, I see the world in layers just because I'm an architect and an artist and I tried to describe layers in the environment and in whether it's natural or the built environment. Layers in lighting as, you know, whether it's natural light coming in to a space from through a window or artificial light from above or if it's sounds My voice talking to you on, uh, a podcast versus there's traffic noise I can hear outside. You may have background on your side. You can hear, you know, layers of sound. There's layers of thought and emotion in every conversation. Um, you know, we're both busy people. You brought, I'm sure, a lot of your daily. Whatever's in your head today, emotionally and intellectually, and so do I brought to that conversation. So everything is kind of in layers and, and I see everything in layers. So I built kind of sort of the strategies, um, for my company based on what inspired me. And, and in the book, I've used so many different sources of inspiration that seem very, very different when you look at them and read about them. But we put them together to craft a vision and a strategy for my company over time, and we layered them on over time that resulted in the growth and success of our company.

Speaker B: So I think two things. Number one, we are often afraid to be creative, aren't we, as leaders? We had a guest several episodes ago, in fact, it was my sister who is an artist and a creative, and we were encouraging listeners to be more creative. So what are your thoughts about inroads to that? And then secondly, what is it that inspired you to create this process?

Speaker A: Yeah, so if someone is. Because lots of people have told me and I'm sure have told you over time, well, I'm not a creative person. I'm more of an, uh, analytical. Okay. So my, my thing there is that, okay, you can build out both sides of your brain. There's a lot of emphasis in what we're taught and books and you know, that go with your strengths, you know, go with your strengths, that's going to make you successful. And that's true. But, uh, if you want to be a more well rounded leader, you know, it's, it benefits you to sort of learn on the other side of your brain. If you feel like that's an area you could use some improvement. You know, I, I suggest with people that don't feel creative, something as simple as just carry a little sketchbook around. People are very uncomfortable with sketching and drawing if they've never done it. And I said, well, just carry one around and you know, start by just jotting ideas down and then start and then just sketch. And it doesn't have to be good or something you're gonna put on display. It's for you. And over time, if you work that muscle, your drawings will get better and better and better. Whatever it is you're inspired by. And it's sort of the same with the idea of the company, um, where you draw inspiration, what gets you excited. You know, everyone is inspired by something and if you can take whatever that is. You know, for me sometimes it's a piece of music, uh, or it's. I draw a lot of inspiration from Leonardo da Vinci because he was the ultimate whole brain developed person. But if you're inspired by something, how can you leverage that inspiration into something that you can, can use every day when you're building a team or a company or whatever. And I've got lots of examples of that in my book. But I've, you know I've drawn from great business books that are mentioned in the book. I've drawn from high school physics class and the visible light spectrum, um, I turned that into a metaphor for how to diversify our company. Um, which I can talk about. Um, you know I. Leonardo da Vinci, the Roadrunner and the Coyote. Yeah. So there's all kinds of different inspirations, metaphors, etc that I've used over time. And I think whatever your inspiration is, think about how can I use that to, to relate what one of those might relate to what's going on in my company and my, and what's going on that I can maybe turn into a strategy or a vision to help push forward and inspire our people. And so that's kind of the process. It's a little conceptual but there's some, you know, specific examples and which I can go into if you like. But in the book that how I, how we sort of did that leverage those things.

Speaker B: So yeah, let's talk about some specific examples. Take for example if you were running a team day and you're wanting to inspire the team with a new, an updated vision for the business. And um, you know, I think we're all used to, aren't um, we having vision boards and that type of thing. That's the traditional way in which we might hold visioning day and creating a vision statement. So drawing on your processes, what are uh, some practical things that people could do to bring to life a strategy, a vision to use that creative part of the brain.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's great to involve the team, whether it be the executive team or you know, a group of leaders within your company or even at some level the whole company into the strategies and the plan for the year for where you're going to go. But it's the leaders job to show up with a vision, you know, and to inspire. So I think one of the things I always say is you always have to be out in front of your company. You have to provide that overall, uh, big picture vision. For years and years, we, like many companies, wrote business plans and we got pretty disciplined at that, which was great. And then, you know, we finally decided, okay, we need a, a long term plan, a five year plan. So, you know, we showed up, I think this was in 2002 and we had been growing and, but we didn't really know where we're quite, where we're going to go. So decided, okay, we have to define that. Um, so I suggested, look, we need to try to double in five years. And so we created what we. And so that would have been. We wanted to double by 2007. So we call it our 007 plan. And we in a room and you know, people were excited about that idea and that sort of, that, that sort of James Bond tie to it. We're gonna, we're gonna dominate. We're gonna double in size in five year and you know, you get the whole company behind it or in the beginning with the leaders. And you know, I think the idea is to get people excited and then generate ideas. Okay, how are we going to do that? What, what strategies can we implement? So I'll give you a specific, I'll go back to the visible light spectrum. So our particular company, we were an architectural firm and we diversified. We wanted to diversify the company where we specialize in commercial real estate type of projects. And we were a little vulnerable to recessions, the ups and downs of the economy. And so, um, we decided to diversify but wanted to do it very carefully. So I used as a metaphor the visible light spectrum. So, you know, the colors of the rainbow. What we wanted to pick in diversifications were, um, services and products that closely aligned with our expertise in commercial real estate. Um, so for example, we added interior design related to those type of projects. We added. Most of our work was in office and industrial. So we added retail, we added healthcare, we added, um, high tech manufacturing. And, and I would say, well, those are all, I can see those, those are all closely related to our core business. And we can dominate in that space. We can be leaders in those spaces. And it's all very, you know, but you know, we're not going to do trapped homes, you know, because I can't see it. It's outside of visible light spectrum. Those are kind of like gamma rays out there. We're not going to do giant stadiums, uh, you know, for football teams, because that's not our core expertise. And um, that's infrared rays. I can't see it. They're outside the visible light spectrum. So we sort of took this idea of, uh, you know, this imagery from high school physics class. But we use, use that to divine to define how we were going to diversify very carefully and strategically stay within our lane, but go places that would help, um, buffer us from big shocks, from recessions, and diversify us, but do it within, um, these parameters where we could dominate a market. And we've been doing that now for 30 years based on that, that one metaphor. So that's one example of something that inspired me. I have no idea how it came to me, but it was an inspiration and we've used it ever since, and it's worked for us. Um, so that's one example that was

Speaker B: a really great belief, as in there were areas where we thought we could dominate the market. So where does that confident belief come from?

Speaker A: Well, okay, so part of our growth, and this is probably any successful company, but you're successful, you're doing well, you know your product. So we're well known for knowing our clients businesses, which commercial real estate developers, Fortune 500 companies that want to add to their portfolio of real estate to support their operations. We understand that that type of that real estate and the design for that real estate really well. And our reputation grew based on that. And at first it was organic. We were based here in Southern California and clients started asking us to go to other markets to support them. And so we did. And so we sort of opened offices and developed. A big part of our culture is develop our people and give them opportunities to grow. So most times we would, uh, promote someone and send them off into a new market to open an office and give them a chance to grow their career by building an office. And we've done that many, many, many times. And, ah, you know, eventually we said, okay, this is happening. We need to make this into a strategy because we are clearly good at this thing. We can dominate, you know, and so it kind of, I think, derived from there sort of the aggressive entrepreneurial nature of our client bas made us that way too. Um, and so, yeah, that was kind of the basis of it, where it kind of started.

Speaker B: And so you said that we need to make this into a strategy. So number one, how did you do that? And number two, how did you get your team behind it?

Speaker A: Yeah, so again, um, you know, between our clients asking us to go to places and us, you know, using those opportunities to promote our people, you know, people get excited, right? Those are Great opportunities. And the reason we did that is because, you know, at an early, pretty early age, I was given the opportunity, along with my original partner, Jim Williams, to buy the company from our founders. And, you know, it was an amazing opportunity we were given. So we set out to create as many of those type of opportunities as we could for our people. And so that became kind of a core growth strategy for us. And after a few times of our clients asking us to go places, we started looking around and saying, okay, we should be more proactive about this and more strategic and start planning for these things. So we're not just reacting. And so we, we sort of set out to look at all the different markets in North America and say, okay, where. Which ones are the important markets? Where our clients are doing work and they want to be. It's a strong real estate market, um, and that we think we can go in and, you know, dominate and, and so we started to plan those out. And one by one, as opportunities came, we would go into different markets, um, and, and you know, either move a person in sometimes, you know, if we didn't have somebody on the bench right that minute, we'd hire somebody, or sometimes we do an acquisition, um, which is always our third favorite strategy. Acquisitions are hard and we haven't. We've done a few, but it's not our primary strategy, so that's kind of where it came from.

Speaker B: Now, do you get your team behind that strategy and vision? What were the initiatives you involved them in?

Speaker A: Well, I think that, you know, once again they're involved in the annual plans. We want to. We kind of spend lots of time with our people, um, you know, our leaders, our up and coming leaders, our potential future leaders, you know, mentoring, coaching. We have a very strong mentoring and coaching culture we built over time where we want to know what they're interested in in their career and ah, we want to support that, whatever that is, and you know, it's multifaceted. And so we try to help people develop and give them opportunities to grow in those places. And, and once, you know, they see that, you know, you're interested in their career and they're how their growth might support the company growth, then it kind of comes together and people are excited and uh, they definitely, you know, support the vision and, and are engaged in it. So.

Speaker B: Great. Yeah, it was interesting. You said earlier, I can hear how the strategy was also inspired by your early career experience because you were given the opportunity, which is amazing, to. Let's just go a little bit further back because how do you become an art, an artist, an architect, you know, a chairman, a New York Times bestselling author? Uh, what in your past in terms of your origin story leads to all of that, do you think?

Speaker A: Um, certainly very fortunate in every respect, but I grew up in Northeast Ohio, near Cleveland, sort of Midwest, middle class upbringing. It was pretty, I think naturally I was always artistic at a very early age. I was always building things at a very early age. So I think I knew I wanted to be an architect before I knew what an architect was like around 5 or something.

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Speaker A: So very fortunate in that way that I just sort of innately knew what I wanted to do. And, and then you know what, as it happened, we, as our family was growing, my dad, we, we lived in a little ranch house and there was a lot next door to us and my parents had decided we needed a bigger house, you know, so instead of going and buying a house, my dad hired, interviewed builders and bought the lot next door and we built a house on it. And so it was really cool and it really inspired me because it was right next door. I could watch the whole thing. I climbed all over that house as it was being built and when we went to look at sort of the model homes the builders were offering, you know, very fascinated by that whole process. And then we actually moved in and got to live in it, you know, so that, that really inspired me, I think at an early age to be an architect. And then, you know, the rest of it. I think I had some natural whole brain abilities. I've always been good at math. Um, I had, I think some raw but natural leadership ability. Um, so as I, you know, built my career after college, I was promoted and you know, I was very fortunate to have those opportunities. And yeah, so, you know, the art I set aside for a long time, I was building my company, raising my family, all that kind of stuff. And I had a sketchbook, I always had sketchbooks, but I, I didn't really pursue art. And so when I was getting ready many years ago to start thinking about how I would transition the company and form a succession plan. Uh, I decided I needed to figure out what I would do after that happened. And so I, and, and my kids were out of the house, you know, they were in college or whatever, and we were empty nesters and I had more time. So I started doing some more art and I finally started showing art. So I've only, I've shown my art now for 15 years maybe. Um, you know, wow. Fairly late. Um, but that turned out to be great because it was, I was sort of just, you know, building that for the future and ah, it, the opportunities on the art exploded on me a little bit. I, you know, it grew way faster than I expected. So, um, you know, I'm showing and I have been showing, you know, all the major art markets in the United States and, and Europe and uh, and so it's been really great, pretty fun, um, done a bunch of commissions for people and you know, it's uh, it's a great creative outlet. And you know, I think that, um, I always say being an artist made me a better CEO, and being a CEO definitely made me a better artist, you know, knowing how to market it and you know, the business side of being an artist and all that stuff. So, um, that's worked out really, really well because now that it's happening and I'm spending less time on my company, I'm spending more time on art and you know, all these other things I mentioned. So it's been pretty cool. Yeah.

Speaker B: What was that very first step like? You know, when you put a piece up that people could potentially well view by the reason I ask. I've just spent a week in Galicia with my sister, who, as I say, is an artist and she doesn't realize how good she is. She's brilliant. And I said, please don't die having not tried to sell your art because you're really brilliant. Um, you know, let's experience your legacy now effectively. So what, what was that like for you? What was your very first step? Because it can be uncomfortable, can't it? You know, writing a book, putting that out, piece of art, putting that out. So. But it's the same in leadership roles as well. Doing something new, pushing that comfort zone. How did you do that?

Speaker A: Yeah, well, what you just said is really important. I think having the willingness to get outside your comfort zone a little bit is super important. You know, you got to take a risk. Ah. And you know, the first time you show your art, it's kind of like, you know, I think you would admit, well, you've described it, you can kind of imagine the sort of the nerves, uh, and trepidation. It's like I'm, um, putting it up there. What's someone gonna think? You know, kind of, that sort of stuff. Um, yeah, luckily I knew somebody that, you know, was in the art world and that helped me get uh, my first exhibit or two, which were more private exhibits, not really in galleries. But you know, it's a case that might be cool if they would be willing to do, ah, a little show and have a cocktail party in their space, you know, whatever that space is. Um, in this case it was a furniture dealership. Um, but, you know, they invited a bunch of people that I didn't know. I didn't know. So it was like, oh, you know, um, and so once I think once you do it once, at least for me, I got over it. It was like, okay, that's it, now we can go do it. And you know, I, I built a website and I. On social media with my art. And pretty soon, um, galleries started approaching me to show with them. And you know, uh, I had, um, I made a lot of mistakes. You know, there's a lot of, okay, art is a funny business. There's a lot of flakes in the business. It's a very, you know, like anything, a relationship driven business. But also, um, you know, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot. You know, it's sort of this tiered thing, you know, and getting to know it, getting to know who's, who's really quality and who isn't, uh, you know, takes, takes some trial and error. And I had to go through that and made some mistakes with, you know, some choices that I made that, you know, curators and galleries, I don't work with anymore. But you know, over the time I found really excellent ones that I do work with. So, um, yeah, it's just a, it's kind of a step by step process and you have to, it's like anything, you have to push it, you know. And most artists, they don't, I think, realize you've got to be a business person. You're in, you're in, you know, if you want to sell art, you're in business, you know, and, and so this is that whole brain thing again, you know, um, you know, the art. A lot of artists are, you know, obviously brilliant, creative people, um, but they don't realize you have, you're. If you want to be success, this is what you want your living to be. You're in business. You're an entrepreneur, you have to act like it, you know, and pick up ah, some of those skills along the way. Um, I think that's really important. Obviously, you know, I mean, so, um,

Speaker B: that would be also, you've just said there a lot, a lot of mistakes and that is so true in anything that we're producing, um, you know, even something like producing a social media post. Um, you know, I remember the first time I did a vlog. You know, it was awful, but it was literally. And some of them still are, to be honest. But we hone, we refine, don't we? And done is better than perfect, as they say.

Speaker A: Definitely. You just want to keep improving and learning. I think that's part of, that's the joy of it, right? You're, you're, you, you are. You keep pushing, keep learning, keep trying to do better. Um, yeah, I, I think that's, that's it. This, this idea of continuous learning in your life is super important and something I also talk about, it's like, it's, that's always an important. Like this book. Okay. I didn't know anything about, anything about writing a book. Okay. Nothing. Zero. Um, it had been in my mind for a while. Um, but you know, I had no idea what was involved. You know, uh, it's like so many things if you have an idea of what it is, but once you get into it, you find out how hard it is, how much work it is, and you're learning the entire time. Which was awesome. You know, for me, it was awesome to learn what goes into a writing, publishing m. Working with a ghostwriter, working with a publicist. Um, will anybody buy the darn thing? You know, it's the same thing, isn't it?

Speaker B: You know, like the same.

Speaker A: It is.

Speaker B: You know, all of those same limiting beliefs come up regardless of the context. But. So let's just go dive into your book. So what was the challenge that you personally had to overcome? Because often our books are born out of some challenge, aren't they? What was that challenge for you that then drove your system or your way of working?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I mean, if you go back to what really drove this whole idea of this growth of this company and you know, which led to everything else which led to the book, you know, right after we took over the company. Talk about self limiting beliefs. Um, we were buying our company at the same time we were in a deep real estate recession. So.

Speaker B: Fancy a chat? Or maybe you're interested in the optimized leader program. Next level. You can book a free 15 minute call. See the link on um, screen or in my show notes.

Speaker A: Our company was struggling and ah, shrinking, losing projects because they were getting put on hold because loan rates were too high to make the projects make sense. And so at the same time we were buying out the founders of our company, you know, we were, they were, sold the company to us, we were buying them out and we were in recession. So really difficult, really scary times. But I learned pretty much all, every important thing I learned about saving and building in a business, uh, during that time. So I really, I think, stemmed from that and the extreme anxiety and fear, you know, fear of failure, fear of going out of business, all of those things I think spurred, first of all, sort of in desperation, save the company. But then after that it's like, okay, we got to build this company to be better than it was and more dominant than it was and more self sustaining. And so that kind of experience early on, uh, I think has driven pretty much everything else, you know, because once we decided, okay, we have to, we have to have a vision for where this company goes now we have to execute on that vision, make a plan and figure it out. And that evolved once we became comfortable writing plans and building, figuring out strategies, making mistakes, hiring people, hiring the wrong people. Over time you learn and then you refine and then you get better at being strategic and creative. And, and then Jim Collins calls it the, you know, the hedgehog and the flywheel, which I totally believe in. We were in the hedgehog mode, um, for years and years and years, and then all of a sudden we caught fire and we were in the flywheel, which we still are. And um, it's, you know, that's an important aspect that you have to be willing to first of all figure out what you're great, what your company's good at, what you're great at, and then just grind at it, grind away at it and until, until, until something happens, until you actually get there. But you have to stay with it and stick with it and be creative and be resourceful, um, until you get there.

Speaker B: Great. And so is there, obviously we've dipped in and out of your book throughout our conversation. Is there anything else as part of your framework or your system of working that you would like to draw our attention to as part of that?

Speaker A: Um, well, it's, it's really, you know, again, it's being inspired, figuring out how to turn, be creative, to turn your inspiration into strategy. It's developing your people, relentlessly caring about them and their growth and their Career. You know, the other thing I haven't mentioned yet, but, uh, this is actually going to be my question for the next.

Speaker B: Let's go for it then. Yeah.

Speaker A: So big a big, um, big thing, ah, that I always insist on of our. All of our leaders is develop your number two. You have to have a number two. You have to have a person behind you that you're developing, that you care about, that you can delegate to properly. That can grow right behind you and, and it can take over your job if you have. If you get hit by a bus. And that's really important for the sustainability of your organization. So my question to our next. Your next guest will be, who's your number two? Oh. And if you don't have one, um, then that's your assignment.

Speaker B: So our last guest, Maddie Brenner Roach, who is an embodiment coach, she's left you a question.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: So she wants to know. So she said leaders have such an incredible amount of self awareness, but rarely this is physical. So what is your body telling you that you currently aren't hearing?

Speaker A: You know, I've focused so much on this that I feel like I. Here, you know, I, I know what my body's telling me. Um, so give me an example of

Speaker B: how you focus on it then, because that's interesting.

Speaker A: Okay, so, yeah, because, you know, we're all working on it. I. This has been a lifelong thing, you know, and I, you know, I've got at least in the last 25 years, um, you know, uh, for me, the weak spot. You know, I work out. You know, I try to eat right. I, you know, take whatever medicine or vitamins my doctor tells me. I try to do everything my doctor tells me to do. Which, you know that, that's a thing all by itself, right? Doing what your doctor says to do. Um, my weak spot is my diet, I guess. You know, I know what I'm supposed to eat. I cheat probably more than I should. So I would say that's maybe the one thing that I could continue to work on. You know, we're, we're always working on something. And M, for me, that. I guess that would be it right now.

Speaker B: We heard it here, folks. M. And so what? How do you know when your body doesn't agree with something that you're eating? For example, so what do you get symptoms or.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, at my age, and uh, I'm 69, uh, those get more acute as you get older. So, you know, like, uh, last night, for example, I ate something that a little. You Know, on the borderline and I didn't sleep very well.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: You know, up. I, you know, I was up. And it's like, you know, it's like, uh, you know, so that's annoying.

Speaker B: And I don't know about you, Lawrence, because we, we focus on a clean diet, you know, everything that you've spoken about, but we also cheat. But we found that the cleaner our diet, the bigger the knock on effect when we eat unhealthily. Is that the same? And also we're aging. Um, so I don't know. That's an aging thing or having a clean diet thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe true. Maybe you become the better you eat, the more sensitive you are when you don't eat the right thing. That's probably true. Um, you know, my, my weakness is French fries.

Speaker B: So nice.

Speaker A: You know. You know, it just goes to show, we're always working on something and nobody's perfect. Right.

Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly that. So to bring things to a close and to summarize your advice, what three actionable things or tips would you recommend that listeners implement?

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so I think, you know, to focus on the creative, inspirational aspect of leadership because people get excited, especially when you come up with some crazy thing like the visible light spectrum. So that's one. And I think to develop your people relentlessly and especially your number two. And then the third one is keep learning and keep taking steps to improve yourself. Take care of yourself, because this is a long process and you have to stay healthy.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, just going back to develop people and especially number two. So when I used to work in human resources, one of the things that prevented people from developing the number two was that threat. Oh, you know, they might get too good. They might usurp me. So what. Do you have any advice for that?

Speaker A: Yes, well, that is very common, actually. And that's where you. We get. Probably anybody gets the most resistance. Right. They're, they're, you know, insecure about their own position for whatever reason. Um, yeah. So we try, I try to frame it in. Look, you're going to be stuck in your career and unable to take the next step. If you don't develop the guy, that lady, the person that's going to take your place, your number two. You've got to develop that number two, first of all, for your benefit, so that you can continue to grow. Um, second, for the benefit of the company, because we have to protect the company at all costs. And if you went away one day, what happens to your position? We just try to emphasize the Positive side of it, that first of all, we have tremendous respect and admiration for you and we want you to continue to grow. And I always tell people, look, I know you want to grow and you want to keep getting promoted. The company needs you to get promoted. The company wants you to get promoted. So you have to do the things that are necessary to get promoted. And one of those is you have to have a solid number two so that you can be promoted, you know, and so the company's not ever going to hold. Want to hold you back. The company needs you to grow because that's how the company grows.

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. That is a brilliant reframe.

Speaker A: We're always searching for leaders, you know, so.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, that is fantastic. Well, I think, I think you're a real inspiration, Lawrence. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Uh, you know, you so you just a model of excellence when it comes to whole brain leadership. I can hear it, I can see it. And you know, I really appreciate you sharing the system from your book Layered Leadership. And, um, I'm even gonna scurry away some tips and get on to my sister and say, hey, come on, get that art out.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: But you know, that lesson is so relevant to any type of task that requires you to push your comfort zone. So thank you so much for your generous adv and for the conversation.

Speaker A: I had a blast. This was great. Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker B: Oh, uh, your pleasure. Pleasure. Before we sign off, I'd like to invite you to my quick reflective practice called Pause Reflect act as your leadership coach. I'm here to help you translate today's insights into personal growth and, um, your next steps. Answer the prompts that follow in your journal or notes. Alternatively, you can access my complimentary journal and self coaching tool in the show notes or head over to estelle read.com. today's questions are based on the podcast interview with Lawrence Armstrong. Number one, Whole brain leadership. Lawrence talks about the power of developing both the creative and analytical sides of your brain rather than just leaning into your strengths. Which side of your brain do you tend to default to? Creative or analytical? And what's one small practical way you could start exercising the other side this week? Number two, Lauren says, being an artist made me a better CEO, uh, and being a CEO, uh, make me a better artist. Think about the different roles or identities you hold. Leader, parent, creator, uh, professional. Where might the skills from one area of your life be secretly strengthening another? What would happen if you let them inform each other more deliberately? Number three, fear. As a starting point. Lawrence's entire growth story began in a recession, buying a struggling company gripped by fear of failure. He says he learned everything important during that time. Looking back at a period of fear or scarcity in your own life, what did it force you to figure out? And, um, what would you tell yourself now about the next difficult season you're facing? If you'd like to be notified when the next episode drops, remember to subscribe. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with someone who might benefit. Finally, if any of these topics have sparked your interest and you'd like to work with me, you can apply for a free discovery call@ah estellread.com let's see if we're a good fit. You'll also find plenty of free resources there. I'm Estelle Read, executive coach, speaker and um, best selling author and this has been the Optimizing Leader Brilliance Podcast. Thanks for listening. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for any specific advice related to your situation.