Alina Addison, Founder and Executive Coach at ADAPTAA, On: The Art of Leading With Audacity, Embracing Your Inner Nonconformist, and the Transformative Power of Attunement

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Next Wave Leadership podcast with your host, Dove Pollack, where Dove talks to leaders about how they're creating great places to work and more importantly, great places to grow. Now here's Dove.

Speaker A: Hey, everybody, it's Dov. Uh, welcome back to Next Wave Leadership, where leaders talk to us about what they stand for, how they show up, and how they lead. This episode is brought to you by Next Wave Leadership. Next Wave Leadership is an executive coaching firm that works with CEOs, executives, and high potential leaders who want to elevate their impact by communicating with poise, passion and presence. Having interviewed over 150 leaders and created a space for them to tell their stories, I can truly say I've seen the power one person's story, well told, can have. My guest today is a trailblazing executive coach and author. Alina Addison is the founder of Adapta, a leadership development company. She's an accredited emotional intelligence coach with over 20 years of business and leadership experience. But she is also a qualified chartered accountant who in a previous incarnation was an investment banker with Rothschild, who rose to become a managing director and the head of trading. Alina grew up in Romania and arrived in London with only $100 in her pocket. Her new book is called the Audacity Leading with Care, Courage, and Nonconformity. And when you read it, you get the sense that a part of its great insight and power comes from the fact that while Alina was someone who spent her life moving forward ever quickly, when life intervened, forcing her to slow down, she responded by directing her attention inward, deepening her sense of self attunement, which allowed her to tune into what was happening for others around her. And, I would argue, to write this book. She is thoughtful and deep, with a joyous, playful spirit. And now I invite you to enjoy my interview with executive coach and author Elena Addison. Alina, welcome to Next Wave Leadership.

Speaker C: Thank you very much. I am delighted to be here with you, Dov. Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: Of course. So, congratulations on the new book. Very exciting. I know it comes out right now, this week. You know, I wanted to start by asking you. So it's called the Audacity Spectrum, Leading with Care, Courage and Nonconformity. Why Audacity?

Speaker C: Wow. I mean, audacity, for me, it's that little extra. So I was having a conversation recently and, you know, for me, if you look at the, um, you know, the title of the book is your dusty spectrum, and then it's leading with care, Courage and nonconformity. So. So there are Ingredients to what I call audacity, which are courage, care, and nonconformity. So for me, audacity is more than courage, which is what most people associate audacity with. The boldness, sometimes the sort of recklessness is taking it into that little extra edge. And it's interesting, before I settled on this concept of audacity, I had this idea of the little extra. And I almost called the book that. Um, but we were playing. So for me, audacity has got this suddenly, the duality, the, um, ambivalence to it. So some people, it's depending on which side of the coin you look at it. So it's got this negative connotation still, uh, when you are becoming reckless. And to me, I wanted to redefine it. I wanted to make sure that people also use this positive side of audacity. Um, it's. So. Yeah, so it's recalibrating. It's reframing the audacity for the positive influence that you can have.

Speaker A: Got it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, because I do think of audacity, and I was trying to think of, uh, positive connotations to it. And I was thinking how so often we use it as someone, you know, how could they have the audacity to do such a thing? And then I thought about how rarely we ever use that word in association with women.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Because so often women are taught and socialized like the last thing they want to be is. Is audacious. And so I thought it was a really interesting choice. Um, you say something early in the book that I thought was really, really quite striking, which was you said as an executive coach, which you've been for years, that you. At the end of the day, the thing you most do is give people courage. Could you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by that?

Speaker C: Well, actually, it is just encouraging. So I want to say courage. It comes from this Latin word, or, you know, some people use it a lot in French. The co is it's leading with heart. So it's. It's really listening to your gut and your heart to do sort of the things that you wouldn't otherwise do if you keep thinking about it. Because we live in our heads, of course. So when we think and overthink, we might stop ourselves from doing some of this courageous, audacious things. So for me, when I give people courage, it's very much encouraging, which is the verb. And courage is really encouraging them, giving them this courage, this faith, this trust that they could do what some people may construe as impossible. And actually all you need is this little extra to, to stretch into the, the discomfort, the, you know, the uncomfortable side, the outside of your comfort zone, the stretch zone, the learning. So whichever way you want to frame it, but you need to feel slightly uncomfortable. Um, and that's what, where the courage comes into hand.

Speaker A: And I know that you have a very unique backstory and you were in the last thing you were for like to the manner born or grew up expecting to be in these corporate suites where you find yourself and I wonder if your, your unique background and having to have a life where it's constant reinvention. Do you think that's helped you walk into some of these rooms with leaders and, and explain to them how they can, how they can stretch or have courage?

Speaker C: Certainly. And um, I've only been thinking about this as of late, I suppose. So I, my backstory is I came, I grew up in Romania, in the communist Romania. I went to a boarding nursery actually out of all places. So I learned discipline very, very early in my life. And then, uh, so I learned to conform, which is interesting. That's why for me, non conformity is really important because the conformity was such a value for such a long time. So I, when I went into the corporate system, I fitted in quite easily because I could conform easily. Yeah. Which is interesting. So this idea of fitting in is like, yes, I can fit in because I can follow the rules easily. And yet at heart I was a very non conformist, which is probably why I managed to navigate some of these systems so well, successfully in a way. Um, and yes, you know, being able to conform while I was finding ways to non conform again, that duality, ambivalence to it, it helped me to reach heights, I suppose that really seemed impossible all those many years ago.

Speaker A: And I don't know if you find this as an executive coach, but I have found it is to go to the duality you spoke of. You're working with leaders who have learned how to fit in, learn how to play the game, learn how to do all the things right. And then they get to a certain level of leadership where they have to unlearn and m. They have to step out of that comfort zone and be. And I feel like that's the audacity you're talking about. It's like, great, you've gotten to hear and that's not going to work anymore. So now let's start to unpack yourself so that you could actually lead in a more audacious, uh, form Totally.

Speaker C: And actually, that's a great analogy because you know that what got you here won't get you there is. Is at what point do you unlearn some of the, um, yeah, the habits that got us into a very successful place, and then they. We get stuck. So we have to just stretch to the next level.

Speaker A: Right. Which is uncomfortable.

Speaker C: Totally. Totally. And actually, I mean, it is uncomfortable, but we don't learn in the comfort zone that. That's the truth of the matter. Um, it really. Yeah.

Speaker A: So let me ask you, you say how we don't learn in the comfort zone, and the first step in the book you talk about is attunement. Could you talk about that? Like, why did you start with that? And what does that mean to you?

Speaker C: Oh, wow. It's in. I'll tell you the backstory to that because you got me there with attunement. It was not meant to be one of the A's of audacity. And I was telling someone's a story recently. Actually, my book launched last week because, um, when I wrote the book, I only had seven A's of audacity. So for your listeners, the audacity Spectrum has got 8 A's of audacity, 8 A's of audacious leadership, and attunement is the first A. And then we have acknowledgement and we have assurance, we have, um, assertiveness, we have authenticity, we have advocacy, we have adaptability. And the last one is appreciation. So, but. But originally I only had seven. That was my lucky number. So I settled on seven. And then I submitted my manuscript. It was all accepted. And then I started working with an editor. And she said to me, alina, I think you should have another A. So by the end is like, really? I remember the annoyance and the irritation is, I have. This is now done. Do I have to undone. Talking about the learning and unlearning some of these things. And she said, I really do think this book needs another A. And that's how the attunement got, you know, born. And not only. I mean, it became the first one because you have to align. I mean, not have to, uh, that's probably a strong statement. But when you attune, uh, or you align your head with your heart and your gut, almost everything is possible. And for me, that was one of the most difficult. Well, definitely the most difficult chapter to write. It took me as long to write that, uh, one chapter as it took me to write all of the other seven chapters before.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: 1. Because it wasn't Planned. So I had to really just let go of some of my ideas of how this book was going to be shaped. To attunement is. It's, um. It's been one of my edges, a difficult thing for me to learn, and therefore to express it. What does it mean to be attuned? What does it mean to feel the feelings? What does it mean to really be attuned to someone else's feeling? You know, all of that dance. And I'm so forever grateful to my editor, one, for bringing me, giving me the idea to write, uh, another chapter, two, to bring it at the front, and three, because it then became an eight, which made it much more, you know, easier to have a star. So this is how the audacity was born.

Speaker A: And so I'm interested because, you know, uh, in my experience, clients come to me very often. They want to work on their assertiveness. They want to work on their assurance authenticity. But before that, you want to start with attunement. And what I find interesting, to go back to what I was saying before, is we get into corporate structures. We're led by our heart, what we want to do, what we want to lead. And then we have to make all of these compromises, and we have to make ourselves small and figure out how to work with this person, this person, so that by the time we get to some position of power, we might not have that attunement between our head and our heart. It's kind of been like, severed. M. And so I really appreciate how you're like, before you even want to get into what you want to work on, we have to make sure that you're in alignment in self, so you're not just, you know, off on a branch that's not really connected to your core self.

Speaker C: Indeed. And actually the body keeps the score. I mean, I'm sure this is the title of a book. And it. It took me a while to also understand that having been in that corporate structure for so long, I was so, um, in a way construed to really use my head, overuse my head, overuse my mind, and really not having full access to my body. So when I learned that if you access the body in a way that's powerful, then it's much easier to use your mind. So, you know, that's why the mindfulness is so useful. That's why, you know, breathing before you go and have a big presentations, all of those very small tools. Um, and I always say breathing is probably the most underused tool on earth. And it's the most powerful because we forget to breathe when we get, uh, nervous.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Absolutely. While I was reading your book, I was really struck by this idea of the second A, which is acknowledgement. I'm currently, um, leading this year long leadership course. And it's all about the behaviors that make you credible in a large organization. And what was so interesting was there are 25 women in this class and, and it. Almost all the, the, the behavior that makes them credible that they wanted to work on broke down. Almost exactly 2/3 of the women wanted to have more, a more clear, concise, direct, uh, executive presence and communication. And the other third needed, felt they needed to tone that back because they were told you don't have enough, you know, emotional intelligence and you come across too strong. And so I was just wondering one, if you find that into how acknowledgement helps go forward in terms of building, uh, a leadership profile.

Speaker C: And it's interesting. Acknowledgement is a really important step and that's why it's also at the, at the beginning because you have to acknowledge your strengths, you know, your superpowers as I call them, but also acknowledge your gaps. So in your example, you know, the women who were told they may be a little bit too aggressive, um, you know, and therefore they have to tone down. And again, I have to be careful because I don't want to ask people to tone down their uniqueness and yet talk about attunement. You also have to attune to who's in front of you. So you have to adapt and adjust your message, still being true to who you are and still being, you know, in integrity. And there is a way of messaging, if you like, without coming across as aggressive. So assertiveness, which is the, I think is number four, my fourth A. That's what. Yes, that's it. There is a big distinction between assertiveness and aggressiveness, um, and a lot of people confuse them. And actually assertiveness, um, it's being firm, but it's being firm with care. It's how you do it, um, you know, using your heart where the messaging is, you serve the other person, you don't please them, uh, and you don't have to go, uh, delivering in an aggressive way. So going back to your original question about acknowledgment is once we know, um, you can play, you know, tone it down, tone it up, whichever way you want to call it. And therefore, you know, your leadership finds, finding your leadership style, finding your leadership sweet zone, um, in a way that's true to you and some people may be more assertive than others, and that's okay. And some are a lot less. More humble. Uh, and it doesn't make it right or wrong. It makes it who you are, um, and acknowledge that. So what I mean is, own who you are, acknowledge it, and then use it, uh, wherever you need to use it.

Speaker A: Elena, you had just mentioned superpowers, and I know that you talk about this in the book, that you're. Your concept of seeing it in terms of superpowers came from being a parent, and it came from, from trying to raise your son and seeing his, his, uh, himself as having superpowers and how that worked. Could you say a little bit about, about him and how you changed your perspective and how that led to the flowering of the book?

Speaker C: Yes, and thank you so. Yes. So the reason why my book is called Spectrum, the Audacity Spectrum is because my son was diagnosed, uh, on the, on the spectrum, I think. You know, I mean, there's. There's so many different, um, narratives around this. Uh, so autism spectrum. Asperger's the high functioning. But. But he's got a complex diagnosis in that sense. 10 years ago, so he's now 20. He was only just turning 10. And for me, it was understanding that difference. So neurodivergence is what we call it today. And at the time, the diagnosis was very bleak, actually, and I had no idea what that meant. Um, so I went and became an encyclopedia at the time to really try to research what does it mean, uh, you know, what's, what's the prognosis. And in a way, the prognosis was bleak. So I accepted the diagnosis, but I did not accept the prognosis. And I went on to really understand, um, the difference. And he's definitely been my biggest teacher and my biggest student of not only accepting, um, and tolerating difference, but actually really celebrating that difference. Because I always say, you know, my son Dan, he can, um, he really gets the stuff that most people don't, and he misses some of the things that most people do. So it's that sort of paradox and it's. There's so much beauty in that when you can recognize it, actually. Um, so, yes, I think it's. I mean, we've learned together, and a lot of the tools that are used today are, you know, I give a lot of credit to, to those early days of understanding how do you communicate, uh, with someone in a different way so they accept your message? Because for someone like Dan, he actually would not hear the. No, I was Saying at the time, uh, you know, that's part of the persistence. And I would not say, you know, anything but a yes. So you can imagine what a challenging time that was until we learned to dance together.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then I see you as this, as this coach with working with leaders and helping them try to basically acknowledge their superpowers and lean into it and also acknowledge their uniqueness. Right. That they're not going to be like everybody else. So it seems like it's. It's quite a thing to really get people to attune to what really makes them them and what. And then lead from there and having trust that they can lead from there as opposed to trying on someone else's clothes and leading from there.

Speaker C: And that takes courage because actually it's not always easy to own. And, you know, I said people, you know, and, you know, the weakness being a, um, weakness. It's, um. What about turning that weakness into a superpower, as I call it, is sometimes, you know, someone who is humble or honest, uh, in a way that's more unique. Reframe it. Reframe it into the superpower, and then use it, um, in such a way that it really serves not only the people around you, but also yourself effectively.

Speaker A: Which brings me to my next question, which is you have both assurance and assertiveness in the book, and I'm curious what's more audacious, having the confidence and assurance in yourself to say yes to things or having the assertiveness and the fortitude to say no?

Speaker C: Oh, that's a tough one. And actually, I think what I'm saying in the book, because I can only filter it through my own experience, of course, um, and I can project it through my. I think it's very difficult for people to say yes, definitely. But in my opinion, it's much more difficult to say no. You know, it takes more courage to say no than it takes to say yes. And I know that's different for everybody, uh, because I lead with yes, you see. So for me, it's saying yes. It's, it's, it's. It's easy. I am, um, I jump in the cold water before anybody else does. Um, I find it more difficult to say no, of course. So that, that's. I think I had to learn to say no a, um, lot more than saying yes. But I have worked with people for whom that's the opposite equation.

Speaker A: And so when you're working with them, do you first help them acknowledge, like, even that question, like, what's more comfortable saying yes or Saying no. Like, let's get down to a baseline of how you operate so then you can figure out what you want to start developing or shaving or adapting.

Speaker C: Absolutely. And actually, it's interesting, I'm thinking of a very dear friend of mine. So for me, because I lead with yes, I see everything as an opportunity. I just say too quickly. I say yes too quickly. So, you know. Oh, you know, like, do you ask me, do you. Would you like to come on my podcast? Absolutely, yes. I actually have no reservation. I just say it immediately, yes. And then what happens? Did the. I suppose the shadow side of the leading with yes is that I can over commit. I can overwhelm myself by over promising, uh, because I don't want to miss opportunities. So then I have to sort of stop myself and acknowledge that I'm leading from a yes. And I find it difficult to say no, and therefore give myself some space to consider whether that's truly what my heart, uh, wants to say. Whereas my friend, for example, my dear friend leads with a no. So for her is like, she will always say no. We'll think about it, we'll sleep on it, and then we'll find it more difficult to say yes. So acknowledging, as you said, what's the landing space? Where. Where are you and how does that serve you? And, um, most of these techniques or tools have served us a lot. But then to go back to where we started and what you were saying is, is it still serving you right now in order to get onto the next level?

Speaker A: I couldn't agree more. And that gets to the idea of what being, you know, authentic to yourself. And it's not such an easy question I found to ask people because, again, you have to go down through all the layers that you've built up to get to where you are. So this sense of what's authentically you even getting to the yes or no, you could be like, well, actually, it's. I think I'm a yes person, but I have been no for 10 years in this job. M. Right. So in a lot of ways, it's like trying to get again that unlearning is so much a part of coaching. So that you can recognize, you can recognize, well, what are you really attuned with and who do you. Who are you really? When we strip everything away totally.

Speaker C: And I just. Yes. And knowing that. And so I'm thinking through my own prism again is I know that I say yes probably before I think about it, because I'm action first. And then I think about it Later. And sometimes it takes that, um, deliberate and conscious decision to stop and say, okay, I am a yes person. What about just allowing myself to now think? But that takes time. You know, as we say, it feels uncomfortable at times. You have to be aware. So that acknowledgement part is attuning to who you are. And then being, being aware is like, okay, I'm in choice now. I still want to say yes.

Speaker A: Right. And so speaking of audacity, you had the audacity to ask for a four day workweek in a job that was a six day workweek, so to speak. Could you tell us a little bit about that? And I mean, because I just think that's a great, uh, example of what you're, what you're expounding upon in the book.

Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, for your listeners. So I was working, um, as an investment banker for a very reputable financial institution. And that was just as the financial crisis that sort of Lehman brothers in the 2007 and eight came. And uh, so I was the head of trading and execution and we took a lot of risks. And then after the crisis, of course, that toned down in a way and I found myself actually, you know, I can say that today, bored. And I could do that job with my eyes closed. Um, and I really just teased with this idea, what if I could do this job in four days? You know, is that possible? And then again, that conversation with myself was, how could I do it? You know, of course, that sort of narrative. And I've had my son by then. Um, you know, I had two children. The, the idea of being able to do more of that and while also doing the job. And um, you know, I sort of wonder if my motto in life is what if it works? You know, that's sort of my assurance. That's how I lead with why not? And I said to myself, that's one of the sort of teachings of the books as well. I can try, I can ask. And then if it's no, it's no. At least I know that I've tried. So I did, I took my then boss to lunch and actually, I mean, it felt really uncomfortable. I still remember in order to be courageous, you have to feel fear. It has to be fear, otherwise there is no courage. And I remember thinking, really, that's silly. Can I do it? And we went through the first course and we went to the second and we went to the dessert and I still didn't find the courage to actually make the request. And then I, and then I did, um, and of course it wasn't. I still remember the reaction. It was unthinkable, truly unthinkable at the time for someone with type of responsibility to have the audacity to ask for four days. And, uh. And. But I remember the thing is, I think what sealed the deal and it's one of the things that I also learned with my son is to be truly flexible. So I remember saying, let's see if it works. And it can be any day of the week, you know, and we don't have to tell the market about it. Um, and if it doesn't work, I'll come back. I truly had so much flexibility in the way that I was looking at it. So being willing to accept a no and not be afraid that it will come. And, uh. And also finding ways to make that no a possibility of a yes, interestingly. And, uh. And he said, okay, let me think about it. And. And he did. And. And then I got it. And it really was an incredible. Because I thought, oh, well, I will go for two months, three months. And then it became a few years.

Speaker A: And, you know, what I find fascinating about that story is you were working in an industry whose whole motto and goal is to manage risk. And yet you looked around, you're like, but we don't take risks inside our office at all. And I just thought it was such a great. A great metaphor for how often we find ourselves, we're trying to do something outside. And then again, whether it be our own attunement to our bodies or our, uh, family structure, whatever we have around us, of our immediate atmosphere, how often that can be at odds with what we're trying to develop in ourselves.

Speaker C: Totally. And actually, when someone asked me about that particular story, you also have to have a good ecosystem around it in the way this once I do the book. It took a village to write this book. And I had someone in my team at the time that I could trust. So I knew that on the day that I wasn't there, there was someone who could cover, you know, the risk. So that's important. You can't just make, you know, then you go into having the audacity to make requests without having the plan, without having the solutions to hand.

Speaker A: And that brings me to, you know, another one of your A's is adaptability. And what I'm hearing in that story is you had a lot of flexibility. Like you said, I was willing for a no, I was willing to come back, like, instead of being. Mapping it out within an inch of its life. And so it has to follow a straight path, it seemed like that is also very much in keeping your story with what you wrote in the book in terms of how you would advise us to. To make change and go forward. To not be so. So rigid.

Speaker C: Yes. And actually, that. I mean, that's one of the things I probably learned most from my son, because the spectrum, in a way, it is quite rigid. You know, that brain likes routine, likes, um, to have an outcome. They want to have certainty, which is impossible, to have certainty, as we know. Um, and I have to admit to, you know, having some rigidity myself in those. In those days, in. In as much as I used to love to have a plan, I used to plan my holidays a year in advance, so that planning was part of my DNA and my structure. So I learned to become a lot more flexible with my son. That was part of the last 10 years, interestingly. And part of the game for me was, you know, between the two of us, we'll say, okay, so who's the most flexible? Flexible right now, because he was very inflexible, and therefore I had to give, um, up first. And then. And then he became really flexible, and he would say, mom, what's the most flexible right now? And he will win at that game. So. And. And that's how the whole adaptability, for me there was, you know, quite an edge. And, you know, where. At what point do you let go of that outcome? At what point do you have a plan and then let go of the plan and let it be?

Speaker A: And, Alina, what I. What I find so striking about. About you is that the more you. The more I hear about you and your life, the more it's so obvious where this book spawns from, right? Because here you are, you grew up in Romania, you know, you in this communist country, and you're, uh, you know, with. With that many options and very little choice, and you, you know, you. You arrive in, you know, in England with like $90 or $100, I believe it isn't. You kind of make your whole way, and then you're successful, and then you're this managing director, like ball game for a lot of people. That's it. You made it. You don't have to change it all. You just kind of keep going, and then something happens, as it always does, and you have your son, which teaches you, oh, I have to adapt a whole other way. This being rigid. My. I can't plan my life a year out. I can hardly plan out a day and a half out with him. And so you made These adjustments. And so when I look at the book and your A's, I see that you have followed this whole plan yourself, especially when we start talking about adaptability for someone that was able to move so fast on such a straight line. And so I'm wondering, like, when you look at it, what are you hoping for? Why did you write the book? I get how you learned it, but what was it about you that wanted to write this book, to put it out there for others?

Speaker C: Well, I think for me it's. It's, um. There are so many different lessons that I've learned in the last 10 years, and as a coach as well, of course. But, um, without underestimating the sort of previous life as a. As a corporate, um, investor, as. As a, you know, I mean, I did sports, I was an athlete. Um, I was a sprinter. So I've got many things to my belt in terms of the learning experience, and I. I love to share. This is my realization that, um, I really, for me, I'm sometimes a bit, you know, over sharing. Uh, it's. Sharing is. Caring is one of, again, one of my big mantras. And I learned through that process of, um, parenting Dan, he also wrote his own book, believe it or not, that he made this. Write his own story at some point. And I think he inspired me. He actually inspired me to write the book, which became something else completely differently. But, um, it's. It's. Yeah, it's sharing all of those gems, all of those tools that I found incredibly useful in my own coaching practice. Because, you know, the book has got, uh, models and tools at the end of each of those eight chapters. And I found myself going back over and over again to the same models, despite of having access to hundreds of models. They always used to be the simplest ones that I would go back to.

Speaker A: They are. They are. There are lots of models in the book, and they are very simple. And I did. I found the same thing of going back when I wanted to remember. What was the. What was I supposed to remember for this last chapter and going back, I want to ask you something. There was something you wrote in the book that really stayed with me, and it was this idea. You wrote something. It sounded like, uh, about how people moving from knowing to being is more challenging for people than moving from knowing to doing. So knowing to being more challenging than knowing to doing. Could you expound upon that a little bit?

Speaker C: Oh, yes. I mean, and I think I just mentioned, you know, because we are actually human beings, we're not human doings. And yet Most people think in terms of what do I need to do? You know, those sort of to do lists. And you would know that from your own clients. You bring them, and they keep thinking, oh, I need to do this and I need to do that, but how do you need to be in order to do that?

Speaker A: And.

Speaker C: And that is where, you know, what do you need to feel? So I. I use. I make reference to that very simple model of be, do, and have. So we always thought, how do you want to be at the end of this journey together? And most people still think, oh, I want to. I want to do this. No, no, but how do you want to be? And they say, oh, I want to be more confident. I want to be. You know, if you were to do that, what does I want. I want to be able to present. I want to. To be the best. But how do you need to be. Oh, I need to be more relaxed. I need to be. And so we need to. The state of how you need to be in order to then go into the doing. Uh, and many people just don't. Don't even consider that.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Which brings us back to attunement. Right. And no, for. I'll speak for myself. It was. If you had asked me, you know, five years ago, who are you? What do you do? I would have just told you about my relationships and the kind of husband I was and the kind of father and the kind of friend and all this, and everything was outward in terms of, what do I do? And so I have been on my own path of realizing, oh, I could be a human being, that I can have value without doing anything. And it's been a real interesting process of doing less and really trying to be in attunement with who I am. So it's. It's interesting that I feel like, you know, you wrote those first seven days, you're like, here's my journey. Here's what I've learned. And then your editor is like, but I. We need a little more of you in this. What's the. What do you keep coming back to? Because I feel like attunement is something can almost can come in the middle of each and every aid to be like. And is that an attunement, how assertive I am or how assured I am? And because that's what I want to be, rather than what I want to do. And if I can be clear on how I want to be, then the doing will take care of itself.

Speaker C: Totally. And that's difficult. I mean, I remember especially for someone who's been in the corporate arena. And a lot of your listeners will probably, um, resonate with this. You have a certain identity, uh, and so you are really associating yourself with the, With. With what you do on a daily basis. So when you no longer have that, who are you being? And that was my biggest realization. You know, I didn't have a business card of I'm, you know, I'm the head of trading, and I do lots of risky trades. It's like, okay, but who am I being? And, uh, so that was the big process for me to learn and relearn and learn to be.

Speaker A: You also make a point in the book about talking about. In order to do this, we all need to take this really important step of realizing that we are not the voice in our head. And the voice in our head is very often like, did you do this? And this is who you are? Because, you know, oh, I can count down in my head. I did these things. That's who I am. Um, how would you explain that to people? So they're like, what do you mean I'm not the voice in my head?

Speaker C: Oh, I mean, yes. And we all have those voices, not just one. Interestingly, isn't it just. We have the voices in our heads just, Just keep telling us what we should be doing, uh, what we ought to be doing, which is always, you know, someone else's story, I think, because we always just go back to the expectations of. Of, well, maybe the other half, the expectations of our boss, the expectations of the society. And that's the, the. The voice that it's constantly so loud for who we should be or what we should do. And sometimes it's really stopping to question that. Who. Who wants that? You know, who wants that? Should. Is it. Is it, you know, and that's the voice that we just need to be very aware. It's there to protect us.

Speaker A: Right? We have that voice in our head that's there to protect us. And then we have to realize that that voice came online when we were 11, and all of a sudden, someone kind of making fun of us or not liking us or whatever is not going to hurt us anymore. And so it's that unlearning. And what's interesting is a voice in our head is really loud, and for some of us, it's just constant. But you write in your book how many of us live our life on mute? And I thought that's a really interesting distinction between this loud voice in our head, which actually stops us from actually Projecting out into the world. Do you find that with yourself or with. With clients? A lot. Like, what's your experience?

Speaker C: Yes, with clients, definitely a lot. And it's interesting because my son is an example of an extreme loud voice. I mean, that's where it's part of the space, the anxiety that sometimes it's overbearing because he over. He overthinks, as I call it. So that voice, it's constantly, um. Yeah, it's the over protective. He goes into. Over defensive, over vigilant I call it. You know, and then it's just like, can I do this? Can I do this? Whereas I'm the opposite is. I almost don't have that voice. And that's why, when. When. When I started to write the book, that was the fascination for me because I could not relate to that before. So it's. Until. That's why the universe gave me my son, so I could actually resonate and understand that there is that model in the world too. And for me, it's like, why wouldn't you do that? Leading with the why not? Why wouldn't you jump in the water? Why wouldn't you just, you know, leave the country and. And try to go somewhere else? Why wouldn't you just ask for four days? For me, it was a lot of that. Um, so the, the mute voice, if you like, and then it's like, oh, Alina. But that's not. There's the complete opposite of that. And, uh, in that sense, Dan's been my biggest teacher. And then it was a lot easier for me to relate to my clients who have got that loud voice.

Speaker A: Again, I relate, but I find it so interesting is first we're happy that we don't have certain things or we do have certain talents. And then if we're lucky enough, we start to recognize, oh, well, what am I missing by not being aware of that? And what are other people dealing with? And so it. It. It all makes us more human. It all makes us more attuned to ourselves, which then allows us to have more emotional intelligence. And I believe there's. You even talk about emotional intelligence in the book, but you talk about like, what is it? A more intelligent. Yeah, a more, um, A more intelligent emotional intelligence. Almost like a more audacious emotional intelligence right where we can like, stick things, understand things. But then it's about taking action. But taking action from this solid place of. From a sense of being. I think that's what I really took from the book, uh, very much, Effy.

Speaker C: Thank you. Yes, absolutely. And I think it is. It's just filtering it through who we are, not beating ourselves up, as you said, through those, you know, voices, which are really loud at times, and accepting that we all have our superpowers, and every single superpower comes with a shadow, as I call it. When we take those superpowers into overdrive, they could become what people will say it's a weakness because we drive with them, uh, at the extreme. So even for myself, it's like, of course, if you don't have any voice in your head, in a sense, could you then become reckless by saying yes to everything? And therefore, you have to be aware of that and recalibrate in a way that's, um, you know, emotionally intelligent or more. More so, as you said.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think I find that very often with our greatest superpowers, I think of them as the gift curse. They are this great gift. But we tend to rely on them so much, and then we don't understand why other people don't just do it our way. And that becomes our. Our curse. Our shadow, as you say so eloquently to really understand. Because at a certain level in life, that's. That's where the journey takes us. Right? Understanding our shadow.

Speaker C: And that's when we understand it. Yes. So, I mean, but for me, that's the. That's the most interesting and fascinating work, once we understand our own shadows. So all of this work has to start with us, as we know. You know, I always say, you and I are coaches, so we know that. But, you know, every coaches should have a coach, because then once you understand your own shadows, you become a lot more understanding and tolerant to everybody else's shadow.

Speaker A: So my final question is this. And it's around, like, what your hopes for. What your hopes were in writing this book. And I know that part of it is getting anybody that reads this book will get an accurate assessment of their own, where they fall on the audacity spectrum. Right. And then to have the sense of like, and what do I want to change? What. What would you say? What would you say, like, this is what you're going to get. I wrote this book so you could pick it up so you could learn.

Speaker C: Yes. And I wouldn't want to. For them to think, oh, you know, I need this book because will make me change. Interestingly, I think it's more acknowledging where they are again, just, uh, making it easier for them to understand what are their superpowers, you know, what. What do they lead with? Is it, uh. And this is Just one model. This is just one dimension. Of course, there are so many different ways of looking at the same thing. But so my model of the eight A's is, do you lead with assurance? Do you maybe. Do you need some more appreciation in your life? Um, you know, a little bit of everything, in a way, the sort of 2% more of this or maybe less assurance. So less for me leading with a yes, and maybe do a bit more no. And it's interesting you said that, but everybody. So in the last chapter of Action or, um, the Actualization, there is a quiz. So everybody could just literally test their audacity so they can find out what are their superpowers and what are their, what I call, edges. Um, so, you know, where do they need to maybe consider stretching a bit more? And then I always say just to start the book wherever you want to. Do you want to just understand more of your superpower? Or then, well, actually, do you understand more of your edge? So you can open it anywhere. You don't have to read it in the order from beginning to the end. You could actually start it the other way around. Um, so that's my wish, that's my. For the book is for people to really enjoy it in as much as it gives them a bit of a mirror as to what do they need to become more audacious?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it reminds me, I have a colleague that likes to say that the difference between coaching and therapy is coaching is therapy with a goal. And I feel like your book is very much in that realm. It's very much learning about yourself and asking deep questions, but immediately having actionable tools and tasks to do to work on yourself and keep checking in with yourself with that, with that attunement. I really, I really enjoyed the book and I'm thrilled that you wrote it. Uh, so the book is called the Audacity. Leading with Care, Courage and Nonconformity. Alina Addison, thank you so much for coming on the show. I so enjoyed our conversation.

Speaker C: Thank you so much, Dava. It's been a pleasure. And actually one of the things I wanted to just say, you can find the book on Amazon UK and all of the bookshops, but now I'm delighted that you could also find it in us. So, you know, on Amazon us. I mean, it has still to be delivered from here, but it is available. So thank you.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Wishing you all the best luck in the world. And please come back on the show. I'd love to continue our conversation.

Speaker C: Me too. I love that too. Thank you.

Speaker A: Thank you. Thanks for listening today. For over 20 years, I have worked with executives across a wide array of diverse industries, from the New York stock exchange to PepsiCo, from Amazon Studios to Charles Schwab, and many more. I specialize in coaching leaders on how to present and project a strong and confident executive presence because I believe that how you show up matters. And if your people can't feel your presence, they can't see you and they won't be able to hear you. As always, my email is dovextwaveleadership for any thoughts, concerns, or questions. Thanks for listening, everybody.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the Next Wave Leadership Podcast. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes Episodes.