Ep 046 - Grace Ge, Partner at Amplify Partners

Speaker A: If someone told you that you were 25,000 failures away from your big break, how fast would you want to fail? I think if someone is looking at mentorship from a pure transaction standpoint, then they're not a good mentor to begin with. If you have to ask someone to be your mentor, they're not your mentor. They were the first team that told me it was okay to be different, to like actually lean into the differences. The differences is what makes you win, what makes you unique.

Speaker B: Hi everyone. Uh, I'm Tyche and you're listening to New to Venture. It's the show that uncovers the secret world of venture capital. From the multi billion dollar exits to the biggest company blow ups. If you don't know that much about vc, you've come to the right place. It's time to get hyped because the one and only Grace G has joined us on the show today. Grace has completed the holy trinity of high end coveted jobs in the business world. Hailing from the great state of Texas, where she went to Rice University. She joined Wells Far on the investment banking team, jumped ship to Accenture as a management consultant, then joined the buy side at Menlo Ventures, one of the OG VC shops in the Valley. She spent a good five years there, rising up the ranks where she led investments in some lovely businesses like Orb and Pinecone. And about a year ago she left Menlo to join the amazing team at Amplify Partners where she is now a partner investing in the greatest technical founders of this generation. And so, Grace, you may not even remember or know this, but you were actually one of the very first VCs that I had had an online zoom call with or coffee chat with. I remember being deathly nervous to talk with you because you were so intimidating and accomplished. But the second that you had hopped on this call, um, I just, I could tell that you were a great person. I felt at ease. So for me, this is a huge full circle moment. So I wanted to thank you so much for joining me on the show and I cannot wait to talk shop.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: So, before we dive into startups and venture, I want to talk about some fun stuff in your company bio. Um, so you mentioned that you like live electronic shows. I'm going to an EDM show tomorrow night for this guy named Noctu. Are we talking about the same type of live electronic show? I think, uh, it's. He's a little. He's a mix of a lot of different things, I would say, mainly like Edmund Um, he does some trap stuff with ISO. So it's like ISO Knock is like the combined group name.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I think. I think this is Trap, but correct me if I'm wrong. Um, so there's so many sub genres of edm. I actually did this, uh, tweet last year that went viral where I compared, um, firms to representative DJ. There are so many old school VCs that would, like, text their associates being like, what is she talking about? Like, what, what does this mean? Who these people? And I don't think really knew which ones I was negging and, like, which ones I was saying. So there, like, beautiful subtlety in that post that I really enjoyed.

Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, I love it. Wait, which one was Andreessen or did you.

Speaker A: Did you compare, uh, Andreessen? I gave. Gave DJ Khaled.

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, we'll. We'll let the viewers decide whether that's a compliment or a neg, but that's a fun one.

Speaker A: Ben's a really big hip hop person, you know, so.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Oh, I love it so much. Is there a show that you're going to that you're excited about?

Speaker A: Ooh, my friends and I, we just signed up for the, um, uh, Over Mono show, which is on May 15, um, at 10:15, um, on a Thursday. Over Mono is this, like, really cool brother duo that came from the underground scene in uk. Uh, one of them is, like, very well versed in techno, and the other is very well versed in drum and bass. But together they've created a totally unique sound. Um, I have to share with you. You can share with your listeners. I created a raving 101 playlist, uh, and it's titled There's More to Life than Gen AI.

Speaker B: There's this spot in New York. Essentially, there's five different rooms, and they're all different kinds of electronic music.

Speaker A: I've been there. My bio does say Shanghainese girl with Bushwick tastes.

Speaker B: It's a call you have to come back to. Come back to New York. Um, in that same bio, though, on the company bio, not the Twitter bio, um, you are this self proclaimed travel fiend. And so I had spent the first half of 2024 traveling all over Asia. And so I think that we're kindred spirits in that regard. But what I've come to realize is that traveling with someone really tells you a lot about that person, for better or for worse. So what kind of traveler are you? Like, what does an ideal travel day

Speaker A: look, like, I. I think this has also changed as I age. So the reason why I'm so invested in traveling now is I just did not have, like, the time, resources growing up as a kid. Like, you know, typical immigrant story. Parents moved here when I was really young. Um, just grew up super, super poor. Like, when I visit, like, our very first home in Houston, I was like, I grew up in the projects, like, yeah. Um, and so not having access to that and finally getting access as an adult, it's just. I mean, travel experiences are some of the most amazing things that you'll encounter in life. And so I would say in last, like, 12 to 14 months, I've been to Africa three times.

Speaker B: Whoa.

Speaker A: France for my birthday in July. Then I did, you know, like, the Holy Trinity, London, Amsterdam, Paris. Past, uh, this past December with girlfriends. I'm going to Greece the first week of July. You know, like, I just. I just think travel is the best way to, like, learn about other people and in turn, learn about yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well said. I totally agree. I, um, studied abroad in Greece my very first semester of college. And I think I still look back at that being the best time of my life. Um, I have this dream, this larger aspiration where I create a global venture capital firm where I essentially am, um, the bridge between these interesting countries that I've found a lot of fascination in their history and their culture and connecting them with the American startup market. Now that we're on the topic of venture, like, let's just keep diving deeper. So you posted earlier today episode two of Get With It. I want to hear what your vision for Get with it is and how it all started.

Speaker A: Yeah, Get with it is really a show with friends. Um, you know, I don't really believe in work life balance as a vc. Not to say that, you know, just to proclaim like, oh, Grace isn't Grace is a workaholic. More of some of my best friends, like, best personal friends, started as people that I first knew professionally and vice. Vice versa. Right. And so I view, like, my job and the life that I have is, like, very fluid between the two worlds. And a lot of the conversations that I have with friends are also founders, which are also amazing operators at some of the coolest companies in the world. And because we have that relationship and rapport, we're able to go deeper on topics. And so I just have this thought of, like, wow, so many people would benefit from hearing your perspective. What if they're. What if it was reported? What if there was a. Right. Um. And so that's what get with it was really born, born from this, this feeling of like, trust between friends who also could have like a potentially like very fruitful working relationship and just kind of like sharing what happens like behind the scenes, but sharing that with like a broader audience.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. And what's the vision?

Speaker A: The vision is coffee table chats among friends on technical topics and technical domains. Um, and technical for me doesn't just mean like, oh, this person is working on, you know, infrastructure, developer, tooling, AI. So it could also mean anyone with like deep domain expertise in any industry or vertical.

Speaker B: And you know, it's funny what you said earlier about work and life blending together, I think is very unique to the venture role. So you came from banking and management consulting where work, life, balance is a problem. Right. It's like hard to have time to do both these things, whereas now everything's blending together.

Speaker A: I think the best investors realize that like a core power is being authentic and genuine and not marrying anyone else. And you're in venture, you're in operating because you genuinely want to be a master of your craft. That craft is like something in the tech domain and the people that you surround yourself with are also on the pursuit of that. And so I think the worst relationships are ones that you wouldn't have regardless of quote, unquote, a transaction. And those are typically like acting inauthentically. So I think on this journey of like life, I just want to be like the best version of myself and surround myself with people who support that. And through that like, discovery process, I think you just find alignment and like, personal interest and it just works.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's the perfect segue. I'd like to talk about how you got to this point because I think as a, as a young vc, I'm actually a little insecure about me not being at that point. I'm going to take this as a chance to take a walk down memory lane with you and start from Rice or start from Wells Fargo. So you, you came from, you know, investment banking, then management consulting. You were at RRE in New York, Menlo, and then amplify. So along this journey, what were the major forks in the road or big turning points along this path?

Speaker A: Ah, it's interesting because I actually come from a family of developers. Um, my dad was an Emmy roboticist, brought, um, that to the oil and gas industry. Um, that company and startup was doing really well until the Great Recession. And that I think really impacted how I think about my life, both personally and professionally. I don't think it's a coincidence that since that point, if you were to look at my. That was right before college, by the way. Um, if you were to draw a line from that moment to. And then evaluate the choices I've made in my professional career. It's not a coincidence that every job that I've taken has been flavors of helping companies. You know, investment banking is helping public companies. Um, consulting with Accenture in San Francisco was really ops heavy helping like the large five, you know, the largest of large tech cos. And then finally venture. Like going back to my roots of like early stage investing, helping with early stage companies and company founders and company formation. It's less of a fork, uh, when you put it in that context. I really try to follow the people that I want to grow like I look up to and I want to grow up and become. And that's actually how I ended up at Amplify. I read this book once, it was written by Scott Galloway. And I don't follow him. Um, I don't, I'm not even like really even admire him. But someone had sent me the book as a gift. And I remember there was this one line in the book. So Scott grew, grew up with a single mom who was a secretary. Um, he's obviously been very successful. But he said, and I've never forgotten this quote, having someone tell you that you're amazing a thousand times changes everything. And what that means is like no one is self made. Everyone needs a support network, whether emotional or, you know, they just really give you the opportunities in life. And I think the biggest up, uh, level for me and the things that have created forks in my life and career have been following the people that believed in me. Um, and I think that's given me the most inflection, uh, in my professional career, like finding those mentors and people who say like, you can do this, like I believe in you, really changes the trajectory of how you think about yourself, your career. And Quell's quote unquote imposter syndrome, which everybody has felt.

Speaker B: You know what's so funny? I've been talking to all my friends about this recently, about the role that mentorship plays, especially in vc, which is known as more of an apprenticeship model industry.

Speaker A: Is it, I would say that there's not that many great mentors for you.

Speaker B: Even though you like to follow the people that you admire, you found that mentorship hasn't been easily accessible in the venture world.

Speaker A: Look, I think if someone is looking at mentorship from a pure transaction standpoint then they're not a good mentor to begin with. The best mentors that I've had, it's like this quote, Cheryl Sheryl Sandberg says, if you have to ask someone to be your mentor, they're not your mentor. It's this organic relationship that comes from like, intersection of interests and intersection of like desired responsibility to help each other. Um, I think those are the reasons why, you know, drew me to Amplify. I've known Sarah and Lenny forever. Honestly, like Amplify probably has like the greatest density of like senior partners who actively invest in their team and then shout out to, you know, the GPS at re Jim Robinson, Stuart Elman, Will Portius and Raju. When I was interviewing as a baby analyst, they were just asking completely different questions than any other venture firm. They wanted to know like deeply personal questions, like, what was the hardest thing I've ever had to go through in life? Because at the end of the day, day venture is not a glamorous job. If you want to truly be the best vc, you're working non stop. You are literally grinding, probably not as hard as a founder, but this is not a glamorous job. And it's definitely sink or swim.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Interestingly enough, I look back on my time at RE and I think, wow, like that was a true apprenticeship model. I was following Jim and Will around to boards of company that no venture firm would ever associate now in their right mind because they were looking at it in the lens of my benefit, not theirs. Like to give you a range of the com, the types of companies I was on the board of, I was on the board of olo, which is food, like software for food delivery.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Meijer was on that board. Okay. Noon B, uh, 2C. Weight loss. Um, and I was on the Earn.com board with biology and Ben. So it was just like incredible. Just, you know, like. But Jim M. Was putting me on those boards. Not for the, not for them. Right. But for me, so I could learn what I liked, what I took.

Speaker B: And so I think that's actually a great segue. You're talking about, you know, building personal taste and finding this sort of love for the world of venture and startups. Was there a moment that comes to mind when I ask you about, oh, uh, this is the moment where you knew venture was the career path for you.

Speaker A: I mean, I knew even before I started because I have such a personal story with entrepreneurship, startup company formation. I never went into this job, um, thinking, you know, like, oh, it's so glamorous and I'm doing it because so many other people want to do this. I have, like, a very deep, personal reason for wanting to do this job. And so I fully knew, you know, the requirements of this job. It's, it's been, it's been a wonderful journey for the most part.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I'd love to double click on this journey here. Uh, something that I've always in my brain struggled with is the, the art of specializing in something as a vc. Um, I guess a good place to start is like, how did you figure out what your specialties were?

Speaker A: You know, I think the Amplify team all follows this philosophy, but, uh, chasing what you think you should be interested in is not the right way to approach what to specialize in. I think if you just follow what you're genuinely interested in, like, genuinely, deeply, authentically interested in, um, you'll find like, the areas that you want to specialize in. And of course that should change over time. Right. Um, you're not static as a person, but I do think the people who have been the best at, ah, what they do the best at their domains, like, they follow it regardless if the crowd is following it. Right. Like, because the thing is, is like, look at the wave we're in now, AI. How many people were interested in it pre chat GPT. I mean, I know Amplify team was for sure. And the reason why that gives you the leg up in life. And you know, hindsight's 20 20, but we all know, like, a lot of things, it's a matter of time, not a matter of if. So just like, following your nose on, like, what you truly enjoy learning about. I mean, obviously no guarantees, right? But it's kind of like the quote we always grew up with, which is like, choose the job that you would, you would have done anyways, regardless, money, and you'll be successful no matter what.

Speaker B: Something that I've been curious about though, is what that looks like when you're working with teams. So when you were at Menlo versus here at Amplify, are there any huge differences between working with highly technical founders and teams versus more general strategic founders and teams? Is there something here?

Speaker A: I feel like there's not as obvious of a difference on the founder side because most of my investments have always been more technical or the founders always come from a technical background. So the leap between the two firms, at least on the founder side, haven't been as differentiated. What has been differentiated is from like, the investment team side. The one thing that I love about Amplify Is everyone is truly like an N of one and truly a master in, like, chasing, being master of their craft and the domains that they're really interested in. And like, there's this huge intellectual horsepower at Amplify coupled with like, a sustained, long standing history of like, learning and leaning into the domains and building networks with all the best people in this those domains. And so for me, I've always wanted to be surrounded by people who are the best of the best, like, truly being the best at what they do. I think for me, it's better to be a small fish among big fish versus the opposite. Like, that's how you grow. Like, that's how you push yourself. Like, I want to wake up every day and be in an environment with people who I have a strong relationship with, but who make me uncomfortable and grow.

Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, uh, I. I love that analogy. And this is something that I actually write, write a lot about is my whole life I was actually scared. I was scared to be the little fish amongst big fish. Uh, I know, like, in, in theory it's what you want, but in practice it's uncomfortable. Like, a lot of your insecurities come out. It's like, I want to be the kid that loves being the small fish.

Speaker A: I, um, saw something recently on Social, and it is like a perfect encapsulation of this. If someone told you that you were 25,000 failures away from your big break, how fast would you want to fail?

Speaker B: As fast as possible. Get them all out of the way.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: I think that in the world of Venture, there's so many people to look up to and there's so many big fish, if you will. Um, I mean, especially when you were at Menlo, that's one of, like, the original VC firms in the Valley. Was there a lot of a new learning curve transferring from one firm to another? Like, is there always a learning curve there?

Speaker A: Or I m think there's always a learning curve in terms of, like, culture. But, um, for me, like, the Amplify team has been part of my story ever since I joined Venture. And, um, I'm the first partner they've ever hired externally, by the way, because they truly only believe in, like, growing talent internally, which is pretty differentiated from most firms who like to hire in at the partner level. M. And the reason why I think that's truly unique is because, I mean, for me it makes sense. Like, that's how you build loyalty. Like, that's how you build, like, ownership mentality at, uh, firms with each of the investment professionals and so I, I think culturally, like I already knew and had years of history with the team, so the leap probably wasn't as big as if I was like truly joining as like a net new partner at a firm with like a lot of turnover and that like instantly is hiring at that level. It was a very long dating period, let's say married.

Speaker B: Yeah. I love the um, the post that Amplify had made about you when you had joined the team and how you had been connected with them for a long time and they, you just kept blowing them away through conversation and it was just so obvious that you guys all wanted to work together. Um, I think that that's just such a lovely story and that's kind of how things get done in the world of venture. Um, I think that's just the, the nature of how the job market in VC works.

Speaker A: Yeah, the only thing I would say about that is like despite being in a business that picks outliers, VCs obviously get into pattern matching because it makes our jobs easier. But we also do that with internal teams. And I think the biggest break of what Amplify does differently and honestly why Amplify has always been my dream firm and team is because they truly look for pattern breaks. Like they're looking for people who are outliers and ends one and who are, you know, pushing the envelope of like what's possible. Um, and why that's really important for me is because they were the first team that told me it was okay to be different, to like actually lean into the differences. The differences is what makes you win, what makes you unique.

Speaker B: It seems like Amplify is doing things the outlier way, both internally and the way that they pick companies. So based off what I'm saying here, are there any thoughts on the current state of venture that you're seeing or any current shifts that you're seeing in the venture landscape that you're picking up on?

Speaker A: It's really interesting because we're seeing an exodus of investors and partners from the large multi stage firms and it's almost like they're taking a leaf out of the amplified playbook, which is like small specialized collaborative teams. I think the future of venture, the best teams and venture and I truly believe like the stack of who's tier one, tier two is about to shift. Best teams are going to be hyper collaborative in the future. And no, firms are not all collaborative internally if you spend enough time with venture fund.

Speaker B: Okay, good. Well, so what does it mean for a firm to be collaboration hyper collaborative as in like, does that look like sharing tons of deal flow? Like what does that look like?

Speaker A: I mean internally. So sourcing and deal attribution is. There's a less emphasis on, um, you know, there is more collaboration at the junior and most senior layers between firms. Um, the way that you think about how internal talent is utilized changes. Winning is shared across the firm versus like partner specific.

Speaker B: I see. And so do you think that the big exodus of these, you know, amazing partners leaving these huge established firms to do their own thing, does that make your job easier or harder?

Speaker A: I think that makes my job a lot easier.

Speaker B: Tell me why.

Speaker A: Because it shows that like focus and uh, nimbleness is like the key to staying ahead. Which makes sense, right? We invest in small startups that are dislodging large incumbents. So take that analogy and you'll figure out why some of the firms winning today, like Amplify, are small and specialized.

Speaker B: And do you think that'll express differently through fighting for allocation for the companies that are these outlier companies? In my mind I could see also being harder too.

Speaker A: I think in the near term venture will remain to be a very competitive asset class. I think that'll probably be the case in the long term too. I think it's just a moment in time that if you want to reject who is the lead, who is the winning lead, who's winning allocation, it's the perfect time to like change where you are in that winning stack.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You think we're seeing the death of a generalist fund?

Speaker A: Probably. I don't really think that there's truly anyone that is a generalist generalist even at a generalist fund. Because uh, even though if you aggregate into being a generalist fund, you still have to like try to specialize somehow on these like multi stage formats. But you are more spread then than you would be at a smaller, more hyper focused fund. Right? Whether it's by stage, whether it's by domain. Um, but yeah, there's a reason why so many people are leaving these large platforms. Part of the reasons probably they're just not incentivized, um, appropriately either as in like financially or not the individuals. I just mean like you'll see large platforms continue to raise larger and larger dollars which then changes like is the incentives return or is the incentive fee put out capital?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying that's so interesting is that how are you and the Amplify team thinking about fund size? And you know, I'm not sure if you guys are raising, but like, is there a strategy here that you're a part of?

Speaker A: We're staying true to our, true to our roots and not raising larger and larger funds.

Speaker B: Historically, what made uh, like a franchise fund was these huge aums. I think that's completely shifting because they just can't return the capital to their LPs. It's also, we're in a time where liquidity is so hard to come by too. Like, uh, I don't. I'm so curious to see what's going to happen in the next five to 10 years in the venture landscape. I'm very curious. Do you have any thoughts on liquidity in the marketplace right now?

Speaker A: I, I mean, I think liquidity is still something that's kind of up in the air. There's a lot of incentives to stay private longer. I mean, your IPO is just another fundraising milestone. Um, and so.

Speaker B: But it's a way for VCs to return capital to their LPs. Like they're, they're squeezing. I don't know. I'm not sure if there's a lot of pressure on founders now, but I'd assume that there is at the later stages.

Speaker A: Yeah. I would be curious what like, growth investors are seeing. Right. As an early stage investor, like, we already know we're holding our positions for a very long time. But I'm curious when growth investors are investing now at later stages, like, what are, what is the expectation that they're setting with lp, like how long they're holding onto these positions?

Speaker B: Yeah. Gosh, it's going to be so interesting how that all plays out. What I'm curious to hear is what your personal winning formula is and, and how you came to find that formula.

Speaker A: I don't think to win, I think to help. I think if you're just opting for the win, then it's more transactional. Whereas, honestly found, like the founders and companies that I'm obsessed with, I'm going to help no matter what. I'm going to stay in contact with no matter what. And I think if you lead with that, like, at the end of the day, it's an emotional decision as well for founders. And the person that they want to pick is the person that is ride or die for them. And if you would help the company regardless of if you win or not, then I think that's the best indication of your loyalty and commitment.

Speaker B: What I've also struggled with too, as a young vc is like, what does health look like? Like, I can give you hours of m. My time and Labor. But, um, I mean, there's this ongoing meme about how VCs provide value that isn't real.

Speaker A: It's like, are you, are you helping for the showmanship of helping? It's kind of like the people who do charitable acts, but then are filming it for social.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's a good analogy. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, I just think the most authentic help is help that you're not requiring like a gold star for at the end of the day. And also like every founder, there's one or two things that would really move the, like the business forward. And if you're able to identify what the one to two things are versus just like, you know, what's nice to, uh, what's nice to have, what's additive. Like, that's when you really, like, I think, put yourself in a position to be like a true thought partner and teammate.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I love it. I want to switch gears here and talk about highlights and lowlights. And so when you look back at your storied career so far and I ask you about highlights, is there a moment that stands out or the first thing that comes to mind?

Speaker A: I just think this past year has completely invigorated me. Like, I just working with a team and like my long term mentors now, like being on the same team as them. I've just, I've come back to my roots. Like, I've realized why I got into venture in the first place. Like I told my team this like three weeks ago. Like, I think I rediscovered my joy in investing. Wow.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh. That's so lovely. I guess at its core it's always about high quality people and being around those people. On, um, the opposite of highlights though is lowlights. So when I ask you about low lights, is there a moment maybe the opposite where you're like, man, I'm not sure if this job's really for me.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think the lowlights that come to mind are when you are growing up in venture and you have a lot of trust and conviction and, and you're not receiving like the trust and conviction on the opposite end. Right. At the end of the day, like the product that we sell, capital is a commodity. The teams are not commodity and ventures. So never hire anyone that you don't have high trust or conviction in. Because at the end of the day, you're hiring people because of their ability to think. If you don't trust in their ability to think, what, why are you hiring them? Low lights in my venture career have always been around like internal venture politics. Um, and I think that takes away from the beauty of this job, which is really just I'm like a very active academic investor and like, I like to go deep in domains, I like to like get into the nitty gritty with founders. And then as soon as it becomes about like from politics or attribution or following the right processes, like, it just becomes too like corporate for me.

Speaker B: I guess that's uh, A lot of the big partners at the larger firm feel the same way, but as why they're spinning out. Totally makes sense.

Speaker A: Yeah, makes uh, sense.

Speaker B: Unfortunately though, Grace, our time has come to an end. After a lovely and fun conversation, it is time for the final ceremonial ask, which are three questions for you. Grace, Are you ready?

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: So, in the spirit of being new to venture, if you were to write a letter to your past self, right as you were starting in the world of tech and startups and vc, what would you write about?

Speaker A: I would just say, like, lean into your uniqueness, like, follow your gut. Your instinct is usually always right. Care more about the quality of relationships versus like the breath in, the number of relationships. And I think we forget that because we're in a networking based business. That's probably the core insight that I would tell my younger self and just remember to have fun.

Speaker B: The next question for you today, Grace, is to shout out a VC that you think has been absolutely killing the game recently. Maybe someone who has some unique takes, read a fantastic article, or just someone who's personally helped you grow or been along with you for the journey.

Speaker A: Yeah, I have to shout out three people.

Speaker B: Go for it.

Speaker A: Um, my first boss, Jim Robinson. You got me into this business, you took a chance on me when no one else would, and I'll forever be grateful. Also, you're probably the most wonderful human being. Um, I aspire to be as kind and smart as you as I grow up. Um, and then Sarah and Mike at Amplify, you just have made and been there every step of the way. And, um, finally joining your team officially after years of trying to convince Sarah, um, it's just come full circle for me and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh, that's so lovely. Hopefully I can get one of those amazing people on the show at some point too. Um, the last question for you today is to shout out a startup that you think can change the world. Maybe it's one that you're super excited about, one that you've already invested in, or maybe just a team that you've enjoyed working with so far.

Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely want to shout. Shout out the team at Orb Satesh. And I remember when I preempted you when you're. You're a. When you're still babies. And, um, look at you now, you know?

Speaker B: Oh, my God.

Speaker A: It just kills. Yeah. I think it's just a testament. You don't always have to be the first in market. You just have to have the best team and the best product.

Speaker B: Wow. It's good that you saw that so early on. Preempting an A must have been hard to convince. You were at Menlo at the time, right? Yeah, it's been hard to convince that jizz. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Yeah. Well, you got it done and it's paying off. Congratulations. Um, what an awesome company. They're total killers. And an even better way to just end the show. Grace, um, thank you so much for joining me on New to Venture. I'm looking forward to seeing all the amazing things that you'll do. And when I'm in sf, I'm sure we'll run into each other and say hi.

Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for having me on the show.