The Disability Economy, by the Numbers

Speaker A: Well, hello, it's me, Mary, host of Money Isn't Everything, a show that explores anything other than just holding money on. Um, the show today is a father and son duo, and they're building something really cool. A platform that helps individuals with disabilities and their caregivers manage daily life decisions, including their finances. And it's a big audience. According to the cdc, more than one in four adults live with some type of disability. And that's not even thinking about all of the caregivers. We get into the importance of empathy and we break down some of the stereotypes and what could benefit the audience. Here's my conversation with founders Angad and Amit Sehgal. All right, well, welcome back to Money Isn't Everything. We have a wonderful guest here today. And, uh, I just kind of want to get right into it of describing, um, you know, the problem that you're working on because you have such an interesting, um, background here. And I guess the place to begin is, you know, you hear, you hear phrases here and there of like, oh, people with disabilities, that would be, that would be a niche. But it's actually, it's like a wide, big audience. And Ahmed, I was hoping you could set the stage a bit about, like, how big, how big is this audience?

Speaker B: So, uh, depending on who you ask,

Speaker A: always that

Speaker B: just even level said that inad, uh, having seen this world for more than 25 years, uh, in the U.S. people who self identify as people with disabilities is roughly between 62 to 70 million people. Uh, and the way you look at this world is not just people with disabilities. You look at their caregivers, the friends and the families who form the network, and that's roughly. Rule of thumb is it's about, uh, two people for every person with a disability. So you could say it's close to about 190 million Americans. And if you look at a global footprint, that's about 3.4 billion people. So within the US we're talking about more than half the country. If you look Globally, it's about 40% of the global population. So it's a huge market from any perspective you want to look at, if you want to just look at the population, yes. If you want to look at it from a perspective of the economic wealth of people with disabilities and then, uh, caregivers. In the US it's about, roughly, again, depending on who you ask, close to about $8 trillion. So this is not a fringe from or a niche from any perspective.

Speaker A: Do you think it's one of the stereotypes that it is a Niche.

Speaker B: It's uh, yes, it's a stereotype and a lot of it is driven by, you know, we look at the world from. It's, it's how I look at it. It's, it's a perception based model. We assume that if you are not, you don't look like me. There are certain things which you cannot do, therefore you cannot buy. And some parts, I think about it, you know, I spent 25 years working for the Coca Cola company before I started working at Hunger. Uh, you have uh, marketing groups focused on African Americans, uh, the Hispanic population because you value them as consumers. But when you look at people with disabilities, the perception is they don't make the buying decision so you don't value them as consumers. Whereas as a, as a, as a consumer group that is more than half the country. So it's a lot of, you know, a lot of how I perceive you as a consumer drives how I look at the market. Therefore discount what the potential of the market is.

Speaker A: Mhm. Well, and also this is, this is a story that really hits home. The creation of Let me, Let Me do it. And I, and I want to explore that personal story of like, you know, it comes from lived experience. So what's, yeah, what's the story behind building Let Me do it?

Speaker B: So Angan and I want to tag team and answer this one.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, uh, you know, since. And we have two sons, uh, Arjun, the older one, he's, he's also a founder of a startup called Ascent Platform. Uh, and Angad. So what. We've always encouraged Angad from the time he was very young to us take his own decisions because this is a place where, you know what, what people do is decide for, decide for you rather than, you know, decide with you kind of a thing. So when Angad was very young, so what happened at the school one day when he wanted to uh, do uh, I want to cross the road. Other kids are the kids. So when you go to a priest, when you're in the elementary school, you know, all the kids walk to the school. Uh, and there's a crossing guard, et cetera will guide that. And my priest and the principal, I can't walk. My mom tells me uncle can walk. He can be independent. So more about just, you know, basic thing like hey, when every kid is walking, Angad was told by the school principal that you cannot walk. So it was his desire to do that when everybody else can do it, why can't I? Uh, so we, you know, that's where the, we got involved. And ultimately, you know, he got in and we got what we wanted. But again, you know, it was like when everybody can make a decision, why can Angad not make that decision? It's a very basic and small thing. Uh, and that's what. And then Angad, you became the uh, um, charger you best for supported decision making. So supported decision making is a concept. You're basically, uh, you're taking decisions with supports which actually, you know, all of us take decisions with somebody helping us, supporting us.

Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.

Speaker B: Yeah. The example I give everybody is, uh, you know, whenever you go from point A to point B, if you're driving, maybe either you're going to use Waze or Google Maps, so you know where you want to go, but you're using the supports to get there. So construct basis, supported decision making is similar. And Angad is one of the five youth ambassadors for the state of Georgia for a, uh, for us federal self advocacy organization called center for Youth Voice and Youth Choice. And that's where, you know, Unger decided that if we can take decisions, take them into smaller steps. And that's, that's where the idea for the app came. Mhm. Yeah. So that's where we started. Angad started the core concept of what the platform should be. And um, that for me was also uh, a defining moment in terms of, you know, yes, I love Coca Cola, but this is something which is far more personal, relevant and important to us as a family and the in which we're going to serve. So that's where we started building out. Let me do it. Uh, you know, Angad's vision of how the structure should be and whatever I'd learned in my years of work, how do we create something which is going to be meaningful and impactful for our users and the caregivers in their families.

Speaker A: And I want to get more into that, but before I do, what's it like being a father, son, uh, duo building this together? It must be. Yeah. What's that like?

Speaker B: It's, it's a lot of fun and um, obviously there are good days and bad days when he, you have to sort of move away from the father son relationship to hey, we got to get this done. But you know, I can say that not many folks get the opportunity and uh, I get to work with my son on something which is very, you know, we deeply value as, as a family. So you know, I couldn't have asked for anything better.

Speaker A: Well, I might revisit, I might revisit this because I think it's such a Beautiful thing. But, um, I wanted to get back into what we started with. You know, you were, you were explaining how big, how big of a market this is and that is that, that, that is also one of the stereotypes. But what, what do you think? What other areas or where does financial services most often get this market wrong?

Speaker B: Again, it's, it's a question. So I'll give you the uh, personal example. 22 years ago when I walked into the office at Coca Cola, I opened an account that day in the credit union. I'm still a customer there. Uh, when my kids had to open their accounts, get their credit cards, that was the go to place. They're very helpful. It's. Everything is, you know, you want it, you get it. But still it's a question of there are standard products which are available. You have to take from that we are not understanding the consumer or the consumer group and understand what they need. You know, uh, if it's an app, how you can navigate your bank, uh, you know, uh, your banking needs, what is the level of security which you would need if you're a person with a disability, as against, not so. It's, it's. I think where we get it wrong is we try to sell products which we have and expect people to understand and adopt, adapt to the products rather than create products for consumer groups that are large enough where if we were to try to do that, there will be a lot of value because of the engagement which we get with the consumer group if we create products which are meant for them. And also the other thing is the financial system, and I'm coming purely from the disability world, is, uh, there is no effort to integrate the disability world. Today's numerous disjointed systems, whether it's, hey, I'm getting my benefits, how do I set up my budgets, how does this link into one of the multiple other things I have to do? So if we were to create a platform which sort of, rather than seeming like disjointed tools, was a connected platform, uh, there'd be a lot more adoption. So, uh, long story short, I think what we need, where we get it wrong, is we are expecting the consumer to make do with what we have rather than create something which they need. That's how I see.

Speaker A: That's well stated. And that sort of brings me to the one segment of the show that I call that's what you said. And I'm quoting you Amit, um, from, um. I can't remember if I pulled it from a podcast or a story But I think it was a story, and that's what you said was people with disabilities or seniors do not need supervision, they need our support. And I guess I wanted you to unpack that a bit of like, what's the distinction, you see between um, the supervision versus support? What are the important nuances there?

Speaker B: Okay, so, um, do you need somebody to tell you what to do or do you need help when you want to do something? So who should have the choice to make the decision? You should have the choice, right? Yeah. So the difference between supervision is if I was to tell you, Mary, you're gonna record, uh, continue this recording for 45 minutes, rather, uh, than ask you, you know, it's like, hey, 30 minutes. So it's, it's more about engaging rather than directing. So you know, that's like, who needs to be supervised and told this is what you're gonna do? If that's what your life from, um, every day of your life from morning to evening, then you lose the purpose. And as human beings, the power of choice is the most critical thing we have. That's what makes us human being. If I take that out there, that is what supervision is all about. But if I was to support your decisions and you were to say, okay, hey, this is what we are going to do, can you help me do that? That's the difference. Rather than instead of directing, engaging and supporting in whatever you want to do. Yes, there would be mistakes, but that's, I think that's the balance. Uh, and it also goes, uh, the, the underlying thing is you know what's best for you. I can help you, coach you, guide you. I don't know what's best for you. Who am I to sit and supervise everything you do? That's the core difference as I see it.

Speaker A: No, I think, I think that's so important. I'm just thinking of my own personal preferences. I get so mad when someone tells me what to do. I'm like, what? Back off? Even when it's good advice? Um, well. Mhm.

Speaker B: No, go ahead.

Speaker A: Well, I want to get into your work with credit unions because I first saw you both on stage at the Reseda Summit and I know you have a relationship with them, but. Yeah, tell me about your work with credit unions.

Speaker B: So if you, if you think about credit unions and their, uh, mission focus, they are member focused and their focus is on, well, being of their members. And as we were building. Let me do it. And you know, Angad started with that, uh, the decision autonomy piece, which is at the core and Then we started looking at, okay, how do you and borrow the stated goal. And Angad, what is your goal? We said we'll live independently. Yeah, yeah. In your own apartment? My, uh, own apartment. So what do you need to be independent? You have to have the basic understanding of money. You have to have the, you have to have access to products, uh, which are critical for you to survive every day or thrive every day of your life. Which is you have to have a bank account, you have to have access to, you know, credit products. You have to have a credit score. Uh, if you really look at the world of disabilities, roughly 44% of people don't even have a bank account. Of the 70 million people we talked about, roughly 45% don't have a credit score. So in our country if you don't have a credit score, you pretty much don't exist for the system. So how do you bring all those in? And that's where we started saying, yes, I can go to the big banks and It'll become a 10 year project. Or talk to people as credit unions where member is at the core of everything they do. And that's where the conversation started. Uh, coincidentally through, uh, Arjun, my oldest son, uh, we got to meet with Ben at Resita Fund in April and they were, they were fully on board. Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. Uh, and then we started, you know, talking to the Great Lakes Credit Union. We're talking to a whole bunch of others, Americu, Suncoast, et cetera. Because I think there is a connect at multiple levels with the credit union. They are, they are, they're trying, they, they serve a need for a consumer group which is, you know, who needs their products. They are, uh, they are open to, you know, increasingly look at how we engage the customer rather than how do we sell them the products. And that for us was key. And you know, why credit unions? Because they sat down, they were willing to sit down with us, talk to us, listen to us and walk the journey with us as we start building this thing. So there. And from how we see our, uh, mission and how the credit union mission is, you know, there's a perfect alignment from every perspective.

Speaker A: And I, and one thing I know, I mean credit unions are after more members. Um, and Ron Shevlin just put out his report called what's going on in Banking? But it includes credit union respondents. And then one of the things that was cited was they definitely want new member growth is a concern. So I imagine this is a very interesting idea for a credit union too, because it's opening up the doors for more members too. It is.

Speaker B: And again, as I said earlier, uh, in our conversation, it's not just the people with disabilities now caretakers. If you look at the caregivers, the families and friends personally, when we see, you know, a brand which is welcoming for anger, the ability for that brand to get our business goes up exponentially. Uh, many years ago, uh, is a very nice. There used to be a very nice Greek fruit restaurant in Atlanta. And we used to go there, and there's a handicapped parking slot. The owner would not let us park there because I have to park my car. You can do whatever the hell you want. Uh, in that. That was 14 years ago. We stopped born there because the way, you know, it's, It's. The brand was not welcoming for our son. So it's about how you want to engage, grow membership, create products which will not just engage people with disabilities, but we give a sort of a sense of, um, the. The welcoming feeling to the entire community which forms the people with disabilities. Uh, so roughly about 190 million people. Um, and, you know, some of them, a lot of them may have, uh, you know, business relationships with other banks as well, but when they see something which is, uh, connecting with them at a personal level, your ability to engage those customers, consumers will go up phenomenal.

Speaker A: And you're bringing up something that I think matters so much and matters in a lot of different ways, but empathy, because I can imagine, like, you know, even going into a branch can be. Can bring on a lot of panic for a lot of different types of people. Um, and yeah, I'm just kind of curious. I mean, what do you think are some, like, best practices of, like, even, you know, even if someone's walking through the door into a business. Um, um, but let's make it a credit union in this case. You know, are. Is there room for improvement from the industry?

Speaker B: It's just, you know, uh, again, it goes back to where I said, if somebody with a disability walks, an intellectual disability, organize. Don't go by a perception. Engage the customer, understand the customer. Okay. Figure out ways. And the other thing, which I, you know, I, I've told this to a lot of folks I've talked to in the credit union. Now, if you really see the 70 million people on a population basis, 360, roughly 18% of the population are people with disabilities. In your workforce, do you have 18% of your employees? Are they people with disabilities? So if you want connectivity, what are you doing to engagement with the Community. If I walk in, if I see a person with down syndrome or something, I would want to go and meet that person, talk to that person. And you know, that's, that's where you have to create one is obviously engage with the customers, create a feeling where I feel welcome, that people like me, whether they're working at a credit union or have accounts are welcome in that environment. So create that ecosystem is what we need. And then secondly, you know, it's like, uh, I'm. Despite all the digital banking and everything, uh, some people are more comfortable going into a branch. If your branch locations, if they cater to people with disabilities or, uh, make a deliberate attempt to engage people with those communities, do outreach within these communities. There are a lot of organizations who would love to hear more about financial inclusion. Everybody does lip service, you know, when it comes to. And people stop at financial education. So much of financial education is good. But also give me a way to really live that education and actually execute on that. So give me those opportunities. That's, I think these things, if we, even if we start there, you will see, uh, one, a huge change in the perception of credit unions as my financial partners and as employee, as somebody who includes me as who I am not wanting me to be, what that ideal, uh, customer should look like.

Speaker A: Well, I'm curious. I want to drill more into the notion of go further than financial education. Are there some organizations in particular that you think, um, credit unions might want to consider aligning with? Or, you know, what, what, what does good outreach look like? And I know it could look like a lot of different things.

Speaker B: So, you know, uh, what. And I'll, I'll just take a personal example. Uh, when we started with this, the, the concept of Let me do it initially it was like, okay, what's the budget? What's. But then, you know, then the partnerships came up with, um, Michigan, uh, State University Credit, uh, Union, gncu. So people could actually execute open bank accounts, buy some products through these nights, start working on credit. We, you know, we work with the Great Lakes on how do you help people build credit. So it's, it's, uh, engagement is understanding the need of the consumer and acting on it. Uh, I can tell you 50,000 times what's a budget? Why do you need budgeting? Why do you need a bank account? But if I don't give you the ability to open a bank account, what good is that? So, um, you know, uh, that's how I see it. It may not be the perfect way, but that's how I Believe we can increase the connection between, uh, you know, the community and the business part of it. Be a part of some of the conferences which happen within the disability space, whether it's a national down syndrome conference or, uh, you know, the autism conferences which are happening all across the country. Educate your consumer and then engage them. Don't stop at education.

Speaker A: And I'm, I'm also curious about the caregiving aspect. I mean, so we, we've shared some of Angad's story of why he wants, um, to build. Let me do it. But from your perspective, what, what's beneficial to you, like, as a, like in caregiving aspect? What, what are some of the features you would like to see? Um, more available, more readily available from the industry?

Speaker B: I think, uh, more and more. I, I'll talk products, rather features. If there was, if Angad was open a bank account for. Organize for a credit union, help him open a bank account, but helping me engage in that process so that, you know, people with disabilities are the most vulnerable, vulnerable population groups. How do I can create this sense of security so like, I become the first level of risk mitigation? How do we create certain products for that? How do we create products which would m. Uh, you know, Angad and I are working together, help build Angad's credit. How would I, uh, you know, uh, and purely one space which I find very, you know, which is, which is sort of nothing happening in that space, is how do you create products which will ensure that, you know, when my wife and I are not there, there is some financial safety nets which are built for home, obviously within the constraints with the government regulations, et cetera. So these are some of the areas, you know, help him be independent for today, uh, and engage me so that I can help him, uh, and then also create. Help me create a financial safety net, create certain products which will help me make, uh, sure that that happens.

Speaker A: Well, that's some. Well, that's some really good practical ideas for all those listeners that are hopefully getting inspired. Um, a refining product or perhaps a partnership. And I am also kind of curious on your perspective of fintech more broadly. Um, I know at Reseda it showcased a range of startup ideas, but for either of you, is there any technology that you're super excited about within the fintech space or maybe even more broadly, is there anything really sparking your imagination? So, uh,

Speaker B: I guess there, I'd say it's like within the fintech world, if there are, you know, there are a lot of products which are there, how can we create a Unified platform which will allow for my consumer group which I'm looking at, get them to uh, access all those products. So sort of umbrella platform if there, there one exists. And the also uh, how can we connect a lot of these products to everyday life in the world of, you know, it's like in the world of disabilities, something which will help us connect with a smart home. With my appliances, also my budgeting piece and the banking piece. Is there a sort of a structured product which is available or it may not be possible but that's, that's where I would say how will you make my everyday life as uh, Angad or somebody who wants to live independently but build in the safety, safeguards and security, uh, which you need to build so that you know, as a caregiver I'm like okay, he's taking care of things. If something goes wrong, I can always step in. So it's part financial, it's part everyday life decisions which are going to be uh, influenced by what he's doing. Because a lot of uh, our decisions have a money implication. Whether I'm going out, buy groceries, going out socializing or staying at home, paying my bills, etc. So everything is linked to money. So how do I connect all of them? That'll be something which will be very interesting, uh, calling in the world we are in.

Speaker A: Well it does sound interesting and I hope, I hope that we all see it. I hope we see it. And um, last question. Well, not last question. Two. Two questions to go. So countdown. But um, um, what's next for Let Me do it and how would one reach out to you? What's the best way to reach out to either of you or to um. Let Me do it in a more broad sense.

Speaker B: Okay, how can somebody reach out to you? Your email. Right. What's your email? Um, no, no, Let me do it. Angad. Let Me do it. Org. Uh, so best way is reach out through email, either amitmedo.org or angad let me do it. Org. Uh, in terms of what we are looking in building the Let Me do it platforms. Yes. We started building the partnerships within the financial world. We want to broaden them to you know, from a caregiver perspective, co create products with our financial services partners, uh, in, you know, like I said, uh earlier, understanding the needs of our consumers today, uh and going forward from a safety, security, etc. Perspective. And then we are also working on building those integrations, uh, simple things like you know, talking to Uber and Lyft and the instacarts of the world so that everything is integrated. The payment mechanisms are integrated. So let me. And also controlling your smart home, everything's built into the Let me do a platform. So if Amdad is to live independently tomorrow, he can control everything from his healthcare appointments to his conversations with the healthcare providers, to managing his banking, budgeting, paying his bills, uh, and controlling everything within his house through the let me do it platform. So there's a lot to do and, ah, we've just started, so. But it's. It's a marathon. It's not a Sprint.

Speaker A: No, it's not. It would. And whenever you think it's a Sprint, um, it's never a Sprint, so.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Well, I'm just so delighted to hear, um, what. What you've already created and what you're building. And, um, just my last question is, what is the image on either of your smartphones lock screen or your phone's lock screen or what's. What's the image?

Speaker B: What's the image on your phone? What's. Where's it for? Oh, it's Arjun and you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So they're the two brothers. For me, it is, uh, the whole family. Uh, all four of them.

Speaker A: All right. Family business and family on the phone. Yeah. Family first. Well, thank you to YouTube for being on monies and everything. It's a delight to have you on, and I'll certainly be following, um, following your work. So thank you very much.

Speaker B: Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Okay, so something I learned. Autonomy is a feature, and it's a very good feature. Next on the show in March. So someone who really knows brand storytelling, Allison Netzer, who's an author, she just updated her book and she's a storytelling extraordinaire. Catch you then.