S4E5: Daphne Dufresne, Founder, Awani Capital Management

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: I'm Eileen Mancera, co chair of PE Win's Communications Committee. For those of you joining for the first time, Moments that Made her is a production of the Private Equity Women's Investor Network, also known as PE Win. We are the preeminent organization for senior level women investment professionals in private equity. PE Win provides its members with opportunities to network, share ideas, make deep connections with peers, and empower each other to succeed. Our mission is to increase the profile of women in private equity and our members represent institutions with over $3 trillion in assets under management. To learn more, please visit pewin.org the host of Moments that Made her is Kelly Williams. Many of you know Kelly as the founding chair of PE Win, as well as the founder of the legendary private market solution business known as Customized Fund Investment Group, which she and her team grew to manage $30 billion of assets under management until she let it sail in 2014. She is the CEO of the Williams Legacy foundation and serves on the board of Greenbrier Companies. Thank you for joining us for today's episode.

Speaker A: Welcome to Moments that Made Her. I'm Kelly Williams, your host and the founding chair of the Private Equity Women Investor Network. I am so excited about my guest today because I think the last time she and I had a chance to, uh, spend a considerable amount of time together was around a, uh, table in Nantucket having a cocktail. So it's been a while, so I've been very much looking forward to this. My guest today is my dear friend Daphne Dufresne, who is the founder of Ahwahnee Capital. Welcome Daphne.

Speaker C: Thank you, Kelly. It's wonderful to be here.

Speaker A: So we have a lot to talk about and um, you know, we have been together through many things over many years and you are one of the founders of PE win. So we also have a lot of history with our organization so that we will have no lack of things to discuss. But I want to start where I always start, which is asking you to talk a little bit about your early life, where you grew up, how you grew up. Let's ground the conversation there. Sure.

Speaker C: So I grew up in a close knit family which consisted of my mother, my sister and me. We were in a working class section of Brooklyn, New York. My mom was a back office clerk for a bank on Wall street actually. And you know, while she never earned more than $15,000 a year, she made sure we were ahead in our schooling. You know, she had home cooked meals. She had a very high work ethic. Like she was one of the people that was Always looking for overtime, always, you know, getting there early, staying late. And so she taught me really early about delayed gratification and ironically, asset allocation. You know, we never took family vacations. We didn't really have nice clothes. But we attended private school when most of our neighbors and most of our friends did not. You know, and she did this while, you know, being able to make it all work with her meager salary. I remember when we went from living in a three bedroom apartment down to a one bedroom apartment where we slept three door room because it was a better neighborhood. So constantly thinking about how to maximize your dollars and invest wisely.

Speaker A: That's so interesting. You know, I grew up in a very lower middle class family. I'm the first person in my family to go to college. And our family vacations were always camping trips and we would camp, but we always went to, you know, every museum. We always went out for nice meals. So I think my mom and dad just made the calculation that, you know, you're just going to sleep there so we'll do something inexpensive and really make the cultural experience rich and important. And yeah, I think, I think they were very smart in doing that because a lot of what I learned and we always traveled in the U.S. our trips were always oriented around historical sites. My dad is a real historian and so I always aced all my history exams because our vacations were like mini, uh, mini study, study abroad kind of trips. But so is your mom from Brooklyn? Is that where she grew up?

Speaker C: No. And you know, it's funny as you were mentioning camping, that that's very smart and very savvy. My, both my parents are immigrants, so both my parents are from Haiti. And so she was just trying to figure out this country. She wouldn't even known what camping was if you would have told her.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I, I know what, uh, people probably would think, like why would you, for fun, sleep outside? Like that sounds.

Speaker C: Oh, I love it. We go camping now as a family. Well, my, when my kids were younger, now my kids are teenagers, but. But yeah, we would go camping and it's great. It, we love it.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, so what was your very first job?

Speaker C: Oh my. So my very first job, I was actually 12 years old. So the working age in New York was 13. So I found a women's shoe store where it was run by husband and wife team. And I think they were very economically driven and so they were looking to pay people as low as possible. But what that also meant was they weren't asking me a lot of questions. About my working papers, which typically at that young age, you would be asked. So I worked there as my first summer job, and my mom allowed me to continue to work there on the weekends when school started, as long as my grades stayed up. And, you know, as I look back on those years, it was great because it was customer service. It was working a cashier. Over time, I got to work the cashier. But, you know, a proud moment for me out of that experience was that I bought my mom and ultimately my family a washing machine with my, uh, savings. And so it took all my summer money and probably some of the money when school started. But that was a game changer for us because the laundromat on Saturdays could be a treacherous place. And so it brought back a lot of time for my mom, kept her out of the laundromat. But what it did for me was it taught me a lesson that I could earn money, and that money that I made could really have a meaningful change and impact on my family's life.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's so important. I remember the same thing. I was a saver. And I remember at one point, I guess maybe, probably after a couple of summers, I had saved up probably 6 or $800, and parents needed to. Wanted to buy a new car, and so they bought. They borrowed the money from me. And, yeah, I think being able to make that kind of contribution and also kind of, you know, you mature quite a bit when you become that kind of contributor to the family.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Because in some ways you're a peer. Um, but yeah, and I think I completely agree with you about the customer service part. I often talk about my job at Dairy Queen, and I learned a lot in terms of customer service, doing those types of retail jobs. I think. I think it's a good idea for everybody to have a job whether they need one or not. It's good to do it early in your life.

Speaker C: 100%. It grounds you.

Speaker A: And so how did your mom's experience, your experience, how did that lead you to a career in finance? Like, what did you. Where did you go to college? What did you, you know, what did you major in? Was it something you knew at an early age you wanted to do?

Speaker C: I couldn't spell private equity if I wanted to. When I was a kid, I was on the path of, uh. You know, my parents are very big into math and science. You know, my sister was supposed to be the doctor, and I was supposed to be the engineer. So I majored in, under. My undergraduate degree is in bioengineering. From the University of Pennsylvania, But I was always fascinated by money. I went to school on Penn's campus, which had Wharton, so people were always talking about investment banking. By the time I was graduating, people were talking about LBOs. But honestly, none of that really meant much to me. So I was curious. But I was also a little shy about going into it. So I ultimately did management consulting first coming out of school. And, uh, I was fortunate that they were willing to pay for me to go to business school and come back to the firm. But I knew in my heart that I wanted to do something in finance. I wanted to learn finance, and I also wanted to live abroad. I had never really seen the world, and that was a personal interest for me. So I ended up accepting a job with the bank of Scotland in their structured finance group. And so, ironically, I went to Edinburgh, Scotland, to learn about what private equity was and, um, the world of finance. And at the time, the bank of Scotland was the market leader for both mezzanine and senior debt for private equity transactions. So I got to see a lot of deals. I was reading lots of different books from different private equity funds and bankers. I was going on management presentations, and I found myself really getting excited about the equity story, you know, about the growth story and how, you know, these firms were going to build these companies. And my colleagues had to keep tempering me and saying, you know, we don't have to believe the upside case. We just need to be comfortable with the flat case and the down case. Like, they kept saying, daphne, just run the flat case. And I was always like, yeah, but the sponsor said they're going to do this, and, you know, they're going to do this. And I was super excited about, like, the upside in the growth. But what that meant was I was on the wrong side of the balance sheet. So I came back to the States. I went to business school at Harvard, and then immediately after joined a private equity firm.

Speaker A: Wow. So when you first you said you went into management consulting, were you in New York when you did that?

Speaker C: Yes. So I came back to New York, which is where I grew up and worked for. And I'm going to date myself because it was Anderson Consulting at the time. They had just launched their strategy group to compete with the McKinsey's and the Bains of the world. And so I was in this new strategy group and had a wonderful experience because of my bioengineering degree. I went into the health care and life sciences group and so had a chance to see a lot of Actually change going on in healthcare because this was when things were changing around, you know, rules around how pharmaceutical companies could market to doctors and physicians. So we were involved in a lot of that change.

Speaker A: And so what was your experience like living in Edinburgh? Like, what years was that that you were there?

Speaker C: I was in Edinburgh from 96 to 97. Yeah.

Speaker A: And what was your experience with. Yeah, I loved it. It was a fabulous place.

Speaker C: I mean, the, the Scotts are such cool, down to earth people. Very witty. It was very amazing to me how everyone had a great sense of humor and their comeback on jokes was so fast and furious. You know, I thought going there that I was going to be like this. I. As a black person and they were used to seeing people of color because there's a lot of African students that study at the university. I think it was more so, you know, women in finance. You know, I think gender was kind of a bigger thing than race was, which was a huge surprise.

Speaker A: Hmm.

Speaker C: Hm.

Speaker A: That's interesting. Well, as you know, my husband Andrew, his last name is Forsyth, so he's a Scot. And he does have that witty comeback for sure. And he's very proud of his Scottish heritage. Any excuse to wear a kilt, he will put one, and I can assure you, but. Oh, that's great. You know, I've known you a long time. I don't think I ever knew that about that. Uh, that's very cool. So you mentioned that you joined a private equity firm and so talk about that experience. How did you get that job? How did you make your way? People. I mean, I don't know about you, but, uh, young people are always asking me, you know, how do I get into private equity, what they think. Like there's a magic door you walk through. Which of course is the case.

Speaker C: Yeah, no. So I started with a fund in Boston called Weston Presidio, and I came in through the Kauffman Fellows Program. So you're absolutely right. It is really hard to get these jobs. And this was 97 and I'm sorry, this was 99. And, uh, you know, not a lot of firms hire. So you. Even though I was coming out of Harvard Business School, you don't have a ton of private equity firms coming in to hire younger folks into their organizations. And so I was fortunate that I met the founders through the Kauffman Fellows Program. It was a highly structured, rigorous interview process. And it culminates with kind of a weekend in Kansas City. And you're literally having one on ones and meetings with, you know, the partners of funds, like all day, like you, you'd meet with someone maybe at 10am and then they say, you know what, let's meet again at 3pm and then you might even say, you know what, after dinner, come back to our suite and let's meet again at like 10pm and it's like this constantly grueling interview process but ultimately you walk out of that if you're fortunate with a fellowship. And I walked out with a fellowship with Weston Presidia.

Speaker A: That's great. And so Weston Presidio, you know, I think known certainly as a great technology investor, very kind of forward thinking firm. What did you focus on when you got there?

Speaker C: Yeah, so this was, you know, 99, 2000, so there was a lot of technology happening. The firm also had a huge history of doing consumer deals and growth equity deals. So I had my hand in a little bit of everything, which was pretty exciting. I did some venture deals, I did growth equity. And as we grew and got larger, because of our success, we had a number of larger funds sizes, we started to do more and more buyout transactions. And so one of the things that was exciting for me was I was involved and co led an investment in Hunter Fan, which was, you know, ceiling fan manufacturer. But it also turned out to be a great deal and it was the first exit in the fund that it was in. So, you know, it was good to be part of identifying an investment thesis, having conviction around it and seeing an early exit. And I had a chance to add value to the firm early because even back then DPI was important. And it also solidified for myself that yeah, I could do this, I can be a good investor.

Speaker A: You know, I think it's always such a, an advantage when you can invest in a consumer brand. Like that's kind of a household name because then at least your family can understand what you do. I don't know about you, but my family has no idea what I do. But if I say, oh, you know that company that we love, you know, we're investors in that and then they

Speaker C: kind of get it 100%. It's funny, there was a period of time when I would walk into any, you know, residential home and I'd look up and if they had ceiling fans, I could tell you which one it was and maybe tell you why you should change out, go to a Hunter or Casablanca. And my husband used to just constantly shake his head like, why are you assessing people's ceiling fans?

Speaker A: Of course in my house we have big ass fans. So which it's got to be one

Speaker C: of the great, the great names. I love that name.

Speaker A: Me, too. I love it. All right, well, we're going to take a quick break, and when we're back, we will dive in a little bit more with my guest, Daphne Dufresne. We would like to take a brief break to thank Pete Ewan's founding partner, kpmg, as well as our gold partners, Asia Alternatives, Dukas Lynden Public Relations, Kane Anderson, Kirkland and Ellis Proskour, Silver Lake, Thoma Bravo and tpg. If you are interested in sponsorship opportunities, please contact us@infoin.org now back to our episode. Welcome back to Moments that Made Her. I'm Kelly Williams, your host and the founding chair of the Private equity, uh, Women Investor Network. I am here with Daphne Dufresne, who's the founder of Ahani Capital. And so I want to talk to you a little bit about when you started to make that transition to being a more senior member of your firm. Right. You talked about being able to demonstrate your value add. Obviously, uh, I'm sure your colleagues who are noticing your skills. How did you start to, uh, move your way up the ladder?

Speaker C: You know, I was presented with a really unique opportunity, and that was to help launch a private equity fund by a very successful serial entrepreneur billionaire. And so to get that type of call, to be on the ground floor of building something and building a firm that would be well capitalized at the outset with a very prominent figure was enticing and exciting for me. And so while I was still, you know, I was a principal, senior principal at the time at the firm I was leaving, I got a chance to, you know, be a partner and launch a firm from the ground up. So it was an amazing experience on building a firm. It did start to get me some exposure in terms of the overall industry. And the best thing of all is I met my current partners from that experience.

Speaker A: Well, and I think that's when you and I met, actually when you were founding the firm. And so what would you say you learned about founding a firm, having gone through that experience? Because, of course, you had the unique experience that it was a well capitalized firm out of the bucket. You know, it's not like not everybody gets that opportunity. But what did you learn about what to do and what not to do?

Speaker C: Well, certainly I didn't have to worry about physical office space and some of the infrastructure, which I have to do now with Awadi Capital. But, you know, I learned, you know, strategy is very important, spend a lot of Time on developing strategy and what type of deals will we do, what type of deals won't we do, and making sure that we go around the table as partners, and we're all very clear on what kind of deal truly excites you, what type of deals do you see risk, how do you think about valuation? And just making sure that there's that partner alignment on all those things are really, really important. I learned that having values and the value system across everyone in the organization early and that you're going to live that mission, those are all critical things that you do to be successful. Building culture. Culture's so important. Culture is what keeps you together when you do have a challenging portfolio company or something goes wrong that you didn't expect. So really spending time with those building blocks are really critical. And, you know, I was fortunate to have that experience there. And, you know, that's why it's making Ahwahnee Capital so much easier.

Speaker A: Well, so let's talk a little bit about Ahwahani, because that's very, very exciting. And you have had so much experience, as you just discussed with different firms, uh, learning about what are the essential building blocks of building a firm, but what really motivated you to do this and what's the ethos behind the firm?

Speaker C: It was just time, Kelly. You know, I've been doing this for 25 years, and I have made a lot of people, other people, a lot of money. And it was time for me to do it with my team and my vision. I've spent a lot of time in the middle market, and I love the middle market. There's so many. There's literally hundreds of thousands of businesses that are going through succession transfer that are, you know, recognizing that the next generation doesn't want to take over, that there's consolidation opportunities where you got 10 companies in one geographic location that are all mom and pops doing the same thing, all dealing with the same different challenges. And, wow, if they could learn from each other, if we could just bring them and consolidate them under one platform, there's tremendous, tremendous value that can be made there. So I've always loved this business. I love doing it. And building Awani Capital was a way to kind of really make my mark.

Speaker A: And so do you think you've thought about it differently because you're a woman?

Speaker C: I do think that gender. Well, first of all, I think women are, like, the biggest multitaskers in the world. I think somehow, especially women.

Speaker A: Especially, especially women with twins.

Speaker C: Yes. And then I was crazy to have another one. So three children and you know, running around the world and sometimes looking for deals. But, but yeah, no, I think we are great at multitasking. So being able to handle all the different things that are required, I think that we can be sometimes a little more empathetic. So this whole notion around culture, I remember one time someone telling me that, you know, culture doesn't matter, you know, it's just, you know, if we, uh, could just be a collection of deal makers, that's all that matters. To build a private equity fund. And I think that's the furthest from the truth. I think if you want to build a longstanding organization, you have to think about culture. You have to be breathing culture day in and day out. So I think some of those are potentially qualities that we may be more sensitive to as women.

Speaker A: I think that's true. I think, you know, there, there, there's a phrase that I've that had been thrown at me a number of times, particularly by men, which is culture eats strategy for lunch. I think it was actually originally quoted by a woman. And I think that's true, except that I think in some organizations it's used as a defense of a culture that doesn't provide as many opportunities for, for more a diverse group of people. Because people say, well, look, it's working, we're winning, we're making a lot of money. Why would we change? You know, why do we, why do we need to make more partners? Why do we need to get more people on the management committee? You know, it's working this way. And so I do think women are self reflective that I think we do think about, you know, where are the right times to bring people in? How do you enfranchise people more? I think the biggest pitfall is I've seen sometimes women give too much power to other people in their firms. And I'm a big believer, like if it's your firm, it's your firm and it's okay to be the boss, it's okay to say thank you for your opinion. Uh, but I'm in charge. But I would agree with you. I do think that I know in my own experience, empathy and just like knowing the people who work with me, like taking time to even know them goes a long way when things are difficult and you all need to coalesce around something.

Speaker C: Yeah, certainly agree with that. I think, you know, with my partners today, you know, I've been to both of their weddings, you know, I've seen the birth of their children. And um, I think that connectivity is important. It builds that connective tissue.

Speaker A: Right, right. And I've often said, you know, in my firm, we had work from home. Well before COVID Right. That was sort of an ethos as part of our firm. And the only people who ever took advantage of it were men, which to me was okay, because a lot of them had either children with special needs wives with alpha careers, or they lived out of town. And from my perspective, it was like, if you're working with me, if you've made it this far, I trust that you know how to do your job. Like, you don't need to be. I don't need to see you do your job. And to me, it made them better partners, made them better husbands, it made them better fathers, and that makes for a better firm. Because if they're having distractions because their life is not working, that's usually what ends up becoming the downfall of a firm. Right. It's often those cracks because their personal lives aren't working anymore.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think we have to. As leaders, you have to deal with the reality that you're dealing with a whole person. We'd all like to just compartmentalize and say, hey, you show up for work and you're here to do your job, and whatever's happening outside, you leave that outside and come in the building, do the work and leave the building. But that's just not reality. You know, you're dealing with a whole person that, to your point, has a spouse or may not have a spouse, may have children, you know, may have aging parents. You just don't know what else is going on, and you have to take time to understand the whole person?

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's right. And I think it pays dividends if you do that. It helps increase the longevity of your partnership and of the relationship. So are there any times in your career when you feel like you've been particularly made aware that you're a woman?

Speaker C: You mean outside of walking into a conference and, uh, just a sea of men and, you know, you gotta just walk in there. Ah. And be one of the few. You know, look, over the years, I've always been a profitable and successful deal partner at all my previous firms. But I also feel like I've gotten a lot more questions, a lot more pushback needed to show more proof for my investment thesis. And, um, you know, then some of my male colleagues would go on to present a deal, and it'd be like crickets. No questions from the other male partners. So, you know, they would just sail right through. You know, look, ultimately, I Think maybe all those questions were a good thing because it made me a better investor and I outperformed them.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think that, I know that's spot on. Many women I talk to also feel like they get, because of the phenomenon you just described, they get put into the position of being the naysayer. Like they're the ones play the role in investment committee to ask the tough questions which ends up, you know, upsetting their partners and you know, it becomes sort of a, ah, self fulfilling prophecy that they get isolated because they're not on board, you know, or the guys would prefer to have you ask them questions outside the investment committee and not embarrass them in the investment committee. But I mean, is that something that you've.

Speaker C: I could relate to that.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yes. Yeah, that resonates m. Um, so as

Speaker A: you have navigated those, those waters, what, what has been sort of your most successful strategy, you know, if you do walk into that conference or that conference room or that, you know, or you're meeting an entrepreneur whose company you want, like how do you, how do you navigate that?

Speaker C: I think it's having the confidence that you know you belong, right? Like you've got a reason to be there just like everyone else. You know, you're comfortable with your skills and oftentimes the awkward moments are those first couple of seconds when you walk in, you, you have that first conversation and all of a sudden it all kind of disappears pace, you know, you start talking to people and um, it changes the game. So you just gotta push forward in the, those first couple of seconds, maybe a minute or two where you may feel a little uncomfortable or you may feel a little awkward, but you know your stuff, you know your stuff. You've been doing this for a long time and so it goes away quickly.

Speaker A: Uh, I think most of the life is about finding ways to make other people comfortable. And you know, women are often put in that position. But it, uh, actually I think maybe it's a superpower of ours because I think women are very good at putting people at ease and making them feel comfortable. And I think maybe that's why women are really good fundraisers. And so many women have that as part of their career because, you know, people that they're trying to raise capital from, trust them. And I think that's a particular skill that we have that we should actually exploit and take advantage of. And you know, I do believe it's kind of a superpower. So is there a particularly fun or creative moment in your career that stands out to you?

Speaker C: You m. Know, I'm having a lot of fun right now and having to leverage and use every creative muscle in my body. As you're building a firm, you know, creatively leveraging, you know, friends that are at firms in terms of resources, you know, coming up with team building events to get the team to build that culture. You know, I think my creativity is being tested now more than ever. And it's a good thing. It's a good thing, and it's a fun thing.

Speaker A: Uh, well, talk a little bit about the name of your firm.

Speaker C: Sure. Ahwahnee Capital is a. Well, the word Ahwahnee means so many things in a lot of different languages that resonated with our team. So, number one, it means foundation. And we view ourselves as the foundation for our portfolio companies. It means rooted. And we feel as a firm, as an organization, we're putting down roots, and we're rooted in who we are. We're rooted in culture. It also has this collective ownership meaning all of ours. This is ours. And that really, really resonated because, you know, this isn't about us going in and buying a company. And look, we own the team and we own the business. It's a partnership. So this notion of collective responsibility, collective ownership, where when we walk in and talk to a management team, it's a we conversation, it's a partnership conversation. When we are talking with our limited partners, it's a we conversation, it's a partnership conversation. And even around the table as partners, you know, it's not my deal versus your deal. No, these are all of our deals. This is all of our firm. So those meetings all just resonated.

Speaker A: I think that's terrific. I think, um, I would agree that the meaning behind your firm's name is exactly what you want a firm to be. So that's terrific. So, you know, all of us kind of revel in our successes, but everybody's had moments that maybe things didn't go the way we had hoped. And they, you know, we articulate those as teachable moments. Is there anything that stands out to you that really had an impact on you and your career that in the moment maybe looked like it was dire, but actually turned out for the good?

Speaker C: You know, I think I've learned to be a very good negotiator on behalf of my companies or my firm when I'm negotiating a deal? I think a teachable moment is that I haven't always used that aggressiveness for myself when I'm negotiating for myself personally. So that's something I've got to just kind of remind myself and keep that in mind that, you know, it's very easy for me to go out there and fight for my firm, or at the time, it was other people's firms. Right. And getting the best deal for them and, uh, not always thinking about me as an individual.

Speaker A: In fact, I was just talking with someone yesterday and, you know, observed throughout my career that, you know, for women, when you do try to negotiate for yourself, it's sometimes received in a positive way. You often have a better a, uh, response when you put it in the context of what's best for the firm. Right. So if there's an opportunity for you to be promoted or increase your carried interest or increase your economics, you have to articulate it as why it's good for the firm. It's not just why it's good for you, but. So I think for a lot of women, it's hard to have that conversation, even though you might be a voracious negotiator on, uh, behalf of your firm to get a deal or on behalf of your portfolio company as you're growing that company. So that is not an unusual occurrence. So is there anything in your life that you would point to, either personally or professionally that was a real inflection point, Something that really changed you or changed your trajectory? Okay.

Speaker C: I really had to think hard about whether I wanted to launch a fund at this stage in my career. And what grounds me is, I think back to about 15 years ago. I was at a cocktail reception, and I was surrounded by women of color. And we were talking with a senior male partner at a fund of funds. And the women were challenging him to list the senior black women that were in private equity. And he looked at me. I, uh, you know, quickly looked at me like, oh, okay, well, look at Daphne. But then he couldn't name any other names. And we really struggled to create a list. And so when I fast forward today, a big thing that's fueling me is that, you know, there's still really hard to create a list right now. It's far too short. I think that realization at that time is something that was kind of stark and, you know, a reality that I was like, man, I've got a lot of work to do here in this industry. And so, you know, I want a pipeline of women coming after me. And we have some today, of course, but you can't be what you can't see. And so that really drives me.

Speaker A: That's great. And clearly that moment stayed with you for 15 years and it's still, like, fresh in your mind. I can tell.

Speaker C: So.

Speaker A: Well, so now I want to move to the Lightning Round, which is one of my favorite parts. I'm just going to ask you a question, and whatever comes to your mind, give me a response. It's a good way to kind of round out the picture we have. So is there a book or a show that you've recently read or listened to that you would share with us that you really liked?

Speaker C: My husband's the one that watches shows, so when it comes to good movies, I tend to not have time to watch movies. But I did read the Magnificent Lives of Marjorie Post recently, and that was a, uh, great book about a kind of a woman who was just a groundbreaker in this country. And I don't think a lot of people know about her. So I found that book fascinating.

Speaker A: I'm, uh, going to have to read that book. But I actually know a lot about Marjorie Meriwether Post. Of course, she was the owner of Mar A Lago. I lived in Palm beach, so I. I know a lot about her. She had a fascinating, fascinating life and, you know, was enormously wealthy and was a great businesswoman. Had a series of unfortunate marriages. I mean, it's just about as dramatic a story. And she was, you know, an extraordinary hostess and had incredible taste. But she's definitely somebody that more people should know about, more women should read about.

Speaker C: It was just a. Ah, it was. Again, she's a fascinating person in history that's touched a lot of things. Didn't really know much about her. You know, just recently I. I read another really good book. This was written by a classmate of mine from undergrad, the Casualties of Truth. And it's a suspense historical fiction book, but it's set, uh, in Washington D.C. and also set in South Africa as they're going through post apartheid. And, uh, that was a fascinating book as well.

Speaker A: That's a good one. Okay, we'll definitely look for that. So what is your cell phone wallpaper?

Speaker C: Oh, it's a picture of my family. And this picture is a particularly proud moment because all three of my children right now are state champions. Uh, actually, this picture was taken last season. So last season, you know, he was a state champion for basketball. And my two other children, my daughter and my younger son are state diving champions. So it's a picture of us where they're at their school and they've got their medals and their rings and it's cute.

Speaker A: Oh, how fun. That's great. So if you Had a career other than private equity, what would it be?

Speaker C: Growing up, I always wanted to be a singer. I used to sing around the house all the time. I used to put on shows for family or whoever came over. So I saw myself going into entertainment. But then I realized that, you know, the Lord didn't bless me with enough talent to actually make that a career.

Speaker A: But it works well at karaoke night after the PE Win annual meeting. So it's time we break out our real or imagined skills during karaoke night. So are you a dog or a cat person?

Speaker C: Oh, definitely dog person. I got my first dog that's, uh, probably in middle school. It was a funny story because my neighbor, who was one of my best friends at the time, came home with a stray dog and her mom would absolutely not let her keep it. And my mom would have been the same way, but for the fact that we had had an unfortunate situation where our apartment was broken into not too long before that. So it softened her a little bit. And I got to keep the dog, uh, and we have a dog today as a family.

Speaker A: Okay, so what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Speaker C: Trust your gut. I think that particularly as women, sometimes we'll second guess ourselves. Men tend to speak very matter of factly about things. Again, been doing this a long time. Know my stuff. You know, you just gotta trust your gut. And I think we all do. I think the gut, uh, is an informed. You know, it's all your learnings over life that's just getting stronger and stronger and reinforced by the data points that you feed it through your experience.

Speaker A: I totally agree. And finally, what's one thing we don't know about you yet?

Speaker C: I'm a really good cook. I love to cook. I don't have enough time to do it. So, uh, you know, more often than not, I'm not the one cooking in my house. But when I do do it, I love to cook. And, you know, I'd love to write a book someday. Maybe it'll be a cookbook, who knows? But, yeah, that's great.

Speaker A: I'm actually a really good cook too. But of course, as you know, my husband's a chef, so I usually get, like, shoved out of the kitchen. But there are a few things. Uh, he lets me cook, but typically he can take over. Cause he's. He can do it better. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. I'm so excited for finally to have some time with you, but also to hear about Wanney Capital. That is really exciting news. And so thank you, Daphne, for being my guest today. That made her.

Speaker C: Thank you so much, Kelly. I'm so glad that you do this. It allows us to have a great conversation and to just showcase and let our community know more about many of us in this industry. So I appreciate you. Thank you.

Speaker D: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Moments that Made Her. I'm Scotty Wardell, co Chair of the PE WIN Communications Committee. As a reminder, the content in this recording is for general information purposes only and does not constitute advice. We give no assurance or warranty regarding accuracy, timeliness or applicability of any of the contents of this recording. This recording is provided as is and PE when expressly disclaims any and all warranties, express or implied to the extent permitted by law, except where acknowledged. The copyright and all intellectual property rights in all material in this recording are owned by PE WIN and our affiliates and should not be reproduced without our prior written consent. Other organizations or brand names used within this recording, uh, are for identification purposes only. The content set forth in this recording may not be sold, reproduced or distributed without PE win's prior written consent. Any third party trademarks, service marks and logos are the property of their respective owners. Any further rights not specifically granted herein are reserved. Thank you again for joining us today and we hope you tune in for another episode soon.