S04E04: Runa Alam, Founder and CEO, Development Partners International

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Mancera, Co Chair of PE Win's Communications Committee. For those of you joining for the first time, Moments that Made her is a production of the Private Equity Women's Investor Network, also known as PE Win. We are the preeminent organization for senior level women investment professionals in private equity. PE Win provides its members with opportunities to network, share ideas, make deep connections with peers, and empower each other to succeed. Our mission is to increase the profile of women in private equity and our members represent institutions with over $3 trillion in assets under management. To learn more, please visit pewin.org the host of Moments that Made her is Kelly Williams. Many of you know Kelly as the founding chair of PE Win, as well as the founder of the legendary private market solution business known as Customized Fund Investment Group, which she and her team grew to manage $30 billion of assets under management until she let it sail in 2014. She is the CEO of the Williams Legacy foundation and serves on the board of Greenbrier Companies. Thank you for joining us for today's episode.

Speaker A: Hi everyone and welcome to Moments that Made Her. I'm your host and the founding chair of PE Win, Kelly Williams. And I'm very excited to have one of my dear, dear friends with me today. We were last together in London and we are very happy to be together again today. And my guest is none other than the amazing Runa Alam, who is the founder and CEO of dpi. Welcome, Runa.

Speaker C: Hello, Kelly. As I was thinking about getting together with you, I thought, are we doing a, uh, podcast? It would be nice just to catch up. So, yes, we've been friends for a while and I'm very happy to be here.

Speaker A: Yes, very excited. And uh, Runa and I, we share many things in common, but one of the things we love to do is bring incredible women together. And that's kind of how we met, which we'll talk a little bit about. But I want to start where I always start and I think it's always interesting for our, our listeners is to have you talk about your early life, tell us a bit about how and where you grew up and what are the some of the things from that time that really influenced you throughout your life.

Speaker C: Sure. So I was born in Bangladesh and grew up in Germany, Canada and the US and one notable thing is I think I went to 11 schools by the time I was 11. So, you know, and I think it's only in the last 10 years or so that I appreciate that sort of upbringing, which is that it allows me to talk to people from all over the world without hesitation and makes me understand certain things about people from different cultures and new people that I meet. One of which is, by the way, that language is a huge part of understanding the person, the culture, the deal that you're doing in that country. In terms of early influences, one of the biggest early influences was that moving from a, ah, developing country, especially at that time in the 70s, to a developed country. So I went from Canada to Bangladesh and then landed in Iowa. And the biggest thing that struck me is that the level of poverty or lack of poverty, so little things like very clean streets in Iowa and at that time, not in Bangladesh, you know, the way people dressed, what they were able to afford. And that had a lasting impact on me, which at that time I thought what I wanted to do is actually work in the private sector in something I had no idea back then what that would actually help alleviate poverty. So two things, private sector and alleviating poverty have been a part of everything I've done in my career.

Speaker A: Wow. Well, I, I'm pretty sure you win the prize for most schools by age of 11. And you know, what you just said really illustrates one of my favorite quotes, something I live by. And it's a really a paraphrase of something Mark Twain said. Which is the greatest enemy of prejudice is travel. Because the more you travel and meet people individually, the harder it is to actually hold prejudice because you know them as a person, you're not just generalizing against them. And so I think, I think you said it beautifully and with a real life example of how, how your life began.

Speaker C: So I absolutely agree. Travel, you know, uh, doing deals or any interactions with people from other cultures, different types of personalities, all of that is a, uh, learning experience. And the sum part of all of that in our business, make us better in what we do. That's been my experience. And so very big shout out to what you said, which is travel experiences, living in different places, just doing different things are all part of the same thing, which is understanding better ways of thinking and in our business, getting things done.

Speaker A: So what question, and I know you and I have talked about this before, but I think it's interesting for folks. So did you grow up in a family that, you know, pushed you to embark on a career? Was that something that was really important to your parents?

Speaker C: Well, I come from that perspective from a unique family, because my grandfather, who was a prominent judge in Bangladesh, had 10 daughters and one son. And at that time, and now we're going back to the 30s and the 40s and the 50s, because the range of ages is so big. Right. So at that time, what his friend said to him is, you have 10 daughters. How are you going to get them all married? And he said, I'm not. I'm going to educate all of them. So he was a pioneer in his time in terms of women, women working and women being educated. So if you look at my aunts, two doctors, one of them ended up being the head of all industrial medicine in Bangladesh. Lots of PhDs. My mother has three master's degrees. And all of them, every one of them got married and had children. So I grew up thinking that's what you just do. You have a career, and then you do whatever else you want in your personal life, and you should be able to do both of those things. And so, yes, it wasn't even pushing. It was just something I understood. It was in the water. And so when I went off to college, that's how I thought. And it was the first time I realized not everybody thinks that way. And there's lots of questions in women's minds, young women's minds, as to, can I do both? Can I have a career? And, you know, for me, that was not a question. Now, as I grew older and I did have a career and I did have a family, then you get into the weeds of it, Then you have to figure out how to do it. But starting out, I assumed that's what I would do.

Speaker A: Right. Well, that's. That's amazing that you had that example from so many women in your family. And, you know, I agree with you. You know, we so often get caught in that trap of the conversation of, you know, can women have it all? And I always say, yes, of course you can. It just depends on how you define all. You know, for some women, it's. It's career first, having children. For others, it's, oh, you know, they want to marry a husband who. Who, you know, has a mega career as well. And, uh, you know, it's a different mix for everybody. But I always say, of course you can have it all. It just depends on how you define all.

Speaker C: Exactly right. Exactly right. And it's hard to know when you're young what that all is. You kind of have to live through it and make decisions at every stage of your life. And, uh, you also have to choose, maybe not for your whole career, what you will do, but at that moment, what you're going to put your time into and your priority into. And that's just life, you know, and you have to Be comfortable at the, you know, uh, end of 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, you know, that you're comfortable with your decisions. And of course, if you decide to change your mind, that's always an option.

Speaker A: Always an option. Well, so talk a little bit about what your first job was.

Speaker C: So I grew up in Iowa, as I said. So in Iowa at that time, it seemed like everybody worked at an early age. So now I live in London and you know, it is the year 2025. It's not the same. And I realized that. So I started off, frankly, babysitting, working in a, you know, senior care home and working at an A and W that was normal. And, uh, working in a lab. My first full time job was at Morgan Stanley as an analyst. And it was the usual 90 hour weeks. And to this day, I think that is one of the things that made me. Because it's like boot camp. You know, you learn the ethic of working hard, you learn high standards, you learn, you know, what you want to deliver and how you want to manage your boss, your team, your peers. And so it's really boot camp. And for me, that was a very good thing.

Speaker A: I agree. Well, you know, as our listeners know, you and I share the, uh, experience of having worked in a kind of a fast food environment. Mine famously was Dairy Queen, yours was A and W. Now were you a car hop? Was it that kind of A and W or not?

Speaker C: Most of the time. Most of the time it was behind the counter, but we switched off. So sometimes I was a cook, sometimes I was on the cash till, sometimes I was, you know, just taking orders. There was an outside, but as I recall, not too many people showed up there.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you and I are of an age where we know what, what that was.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: But I always say that's. I learned customer service there and I'm glad I had a job like that young in my career, my life. But I also agree with you about the 90 hour work weeks I started my career as, you know, as a lawyer. And similarly, you know, we worked around the clock. And I don't think there's any substitute for the type of bond and camaraderie you develop with your colleagues when you, you know, kind of lived through work of a deal or, you know, a transaction or a research assignment when you've had to put in those kind of hours. And it teaches you what you can do and what you're capable of and teaches you what you want as part of your life and maybe what you don't want as part of your life. But I would agree with you. I think I feel fortunate. That was part of my early upbringing too.

Speaker C: No, I agree with you, Kelly. And I've never done Outward Bound, mostly because I think I was living an office. Outward Bound, right. It's all the things you said, long hours, it teaches you what you're capable of, it creates bonds and all of these things you carry forward through your entire career. So having that early experience, there's really no substitute for that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. So when in your career you talked about your first kind of full time job, Morgan Stanley, when did you kind of make the pivot towards private equity?

Speaker C: For me it was actually quite a bit later. And so I made two pivots within the same few years. Which is, um, first, ah, a pivot from investment banking and emerged markets. So working in New York, frankly to developing countries, which I first worked, set up a investment bank in Bangladesh and then I made a pivot staying in emerging markets, but into private equity. So I came into private equity in Africa 25 years ago, which is when private equity actually started in Africa. So I had the very unique experience of starting a firm and helping build an industry which is private equity and private capital in Africa. And that has been an extraordinary journey. So I'll go back by saying that I studied development economics at Princeton and I had the privilege of studying it with a. In part we had lots of fabulous professors, but I did one of the junior theses, as one does in Princeton with Sir Arthur Lewis, who is originally from Jamaica and who won a Nobel Prize for his work in development economics. And one of the things that I learned from that is the theory of what he studied, which is he looked back into the industrialization in the 19th century of what is now developed countries, Europe in part the US and people were moving from the countryside to the city while they were doing that. And the energy created in the cities led to productivity gains, led to development of companies created jobs created development and urban people consume more even true today, and create a consumption. And that was a cycle including various other things. But that's the guts of it that created development. Now for the last 25 years, that's what we've seen in Africa. So I feel like I studied it and then I had a front row seat of seeing that in Africa. So what's happened in Africa over the last 25 years, GDP has grown up. And what you've seen essentially is it's the second fastest growing continent in the world right now after asia, uh, by 2027. According to the World Bank IMF, it's going to be the fastest growing continent. But behind that is huge demographics. One is it's one of the fastest urbanizations in the world. So people living from the country to the city. And that's led to projections that uh, the vast majority of the biggest cities in the future will be in Africa. Lagos is meant to be the biggest city in the world. It also means that population growth has led to. By the turn of the century, 40% of the world will be in Africa. And you combine population growth, GDP growth, urbanization, and the latest thing, digitization. Africa has been able to leapfrog. So a lot of things are legacy assets, aren't there? Or they are vastly behind where they should be. But through digital means, there's been leapfrogging. And so when you combine that with the other three big trends, it's been a great transformation in Africa. And that's the basis of what we in private capital had been able to invest in. For me, that career, combined with my studies and what I wanted to do again, I've been able to put it together to something that really is a bit of a mission. And it's been a, uh, pleasure to be in this space.

Speaker A: Well, that's incredible. And it's almost like you kind of manifested it right from the time you were in school. You knew it. But talk a little bit about what it took for you to get to the point of founding the firm. You know, what were the kind of the footholds that got you to that point into the decision making, that it was time to start your own firm.

Speaker C: Sure. So I think there may be two parts to this. First is what did it take that I quote, found a firm? Right. And that goes back to creating credibility, which we as women need. Going to great schools, starting my career at really excellent firms. And that's not just a stamp of approval, that's also learning. So both, uh, the credibility as well as the learning. It took that specifically what it took for me to found my own firm is working for another firm and having a very high track record, IRR track record. That was, uh, what it took. So it's a combination of track record, learnings, credibility. And why did I. The second part, why did I want to start a firm? Frankly, it's a combination of I felt I would have a better career founding a firm than inside a larger firm. So I am by nature entrepreneurial. Some people say people who are immigrants are natural entrepreneurs. Well, I'm an immigrant twice, you know, from Bangladesh to the US from the US to uk and that's my personality. And I thought I would have a better career. That combined with a gap that I felt at the time that there was a need for a best of class or maybe another best of class private capital firm in Africa. It was the beginning. Huge scope for growth in our industry still is now. Not enough companies and not enough best of class gps. So the combination that I could and there was an, uh, ability to create something is what got me into this business.

Speaker A: So as you think about that career trajectory and doing a couple of things that are unique, right. Obviously founding a firm, not everybody does that. Not everybody founds a firm, you know, in a developing market. And not everyone is a woman who decides to do that. Are there times in your career where you've been made particularly aware that you're a woman?

Speaker C: I will say it started at 21. It wasn't. Later on, it was clear to me that it was different for me. And maybe that's part of the reason that I thought by creating a firm, you know, I would have more control on my career. So that awareness was there from the beginning. But I will say that the key thing I learned over the years is that you have to just keep going. And that's the key piece of advice I give to younger women, especially the ones that I mentor, which I, by the way, enjoy doing, is that it's not that in my private equity career that I had moments that I had clear failures or a, uh, failure that was not able to be fixed. It's that, you know, careers and everything else go up and down. And when I saw that something wasn't going right, I went in there and however long it took, I fixed it. So my advice is never give up. Because in my career, I was able to turn things around before it was called a, uh, failure. Right. But it could have gone to failure very, very easily. And so even when today, when my colleagues asked me, for instance, when we are in a fundraising mode, will we raise the fund? And I will say, of course we will. It's just a matter of how long it will take. And, uh, that's what the advice I give, which is, of course you'll do that. It's just a matter of time and how you decide to do it. Being flexible and pivoting if things don't work to something that does work.

Speaker A: Right. M. That's my motto from the. The movie Finding Nemo. You know, Dory.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker A: Little saying is just keep swimming. And at, uh, the toughest times that little song goes through my head, and I. I would always share that with my team. And I remember one of the. The gals on my team printed out and framed for me a little picture of Dory and to put in my office. But the other thing that I realized was that you think you're failing sometimes, but you're not. You're not necessarily failing. And the big thing I realized is it's never as bad as you think it is. You know, for people who take great responsibility for things, it can really shake you to the core when something goes wrong, particularly if it's something you think you did wrong. But it's usually never as bad as you think it is.

Speaker C: I think you're right. First of all, Kelly, I'm going to steal that Nemo Dory story. I may even get little pictures and put it up because it's a good way of saying what I just said, you know, pictorially, which is always more effective. So, yes, I agree with you. But I do think in people, people who are successful, they do take failure or the possibility of failure very seriously. And that means that it has a big impact on them, which means that they work harder, they think about it all the time. They are more creative because they have to be creative to solve it. So one of the sayings, as you well know, you know, for any investors looking at an investment and the management team of investment, is that, do you worry about this when you get up in the morning? Do you worry about this when you go to sleep at night? And it's the same thing, right, when something is going wrong or, you know, there's an issue there. You do worry about it when you get up in the morning. You do worry about it when you go to sleep at night. And that is what makes. Averts failure and leads to success.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. Well, for me, it's. Is it, Is it what's top of mind when you wake up at 3:00am because, you know, what I have learned is certainly for those of us women in the industry of a certain age, we're all awake at 3am we should just call each other because we're all awake.

Speaker C: We should, we should. Uh, and I agree with you on that. Might be three, might be four, might be five, but it's earlier than seven, let's say.

Speaker A: Yeah, and it's. And it's right there, front and center, as soon as your eyes open.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker A: Well, we're going to take a quick break and I will be back soon with my amazing guest, Runa Alom. We would like to take a brief break to thank Pete Ewan's founding partner, kpmg, as well as our gold partners, Asia Alternatives, Dukas Lynden Public Relations, Kane Anderson, Kirkland and Ellis Proskour, Silverlake, Thoma Bravo and tpg. If you are interested in sponsorship opportunities, please contact us@infoewin.org now back to our episode. Hi everyone. We are back with Moments that Made her. I'm Kelly Williams, your host, and I'm here with my dear friend Runa Allen, who is the founder and CEO of dpi. We've been having an amazing conversation and I want to ask you a question that's, you know, timely and yet not timely, which is, what would you point to as the high point in your career? Certainly you have a long trajectory and you have a lot of, you know, running room left, but today, what would you say is the high point?

Speaker C: First, I'm going to say I hope it's in the future that you specifically said today. And you know, I do think that the high point is now, just like the high point a year ago was a year ago. And I suppose I'm very lucky in that because I don't think I've peaked yet. And I also think that I'm a natural optimist and by being that, I don't think that there's anything in the past that I would say was the absolute high point. You know, there are memorable moments, many memorable moments. You know, closing my first fund, doing the first set of deals, the first exit that was 3x or 4x. You know, those are extraordinary moments. And then, um, memories of teams that I worked with who were extraordinary, incredible CEOs, you know, meeting them and then seeing them do what they do. Incredible AGMs with, you know, LPs, traveling to New places. Africa is a fascinating continent with 54 countries, lots of diversity within the continent of, you know, visuals of, uh, language of music, of, uh, deal doing, of companies. So many, many moments. I'm not sure there is one moment I can pick out.

Speaker A: Well, that's great. That makes me very happy because of course, the name of our podcast is Moments that Made Her. So we want to know that it's many moments that add up to where you are at this point. And I agree with you. I always think that the high point is ahead. And hearing you say that you are an optimist by nature, maybe that's why we connected. Because I am an optimist by nature. I'm always happy, I'm always in a good mood. I always want to see the best in things and the best in people. And so that's something I think we share for sure. What's something you would point to that was a particularly fun moment in your career?

Speaker C: Well, one of the things that I think is a tool in anybody's, you know, toolkit, especially women, is humor. And I will say that when things get tough, I tell a joke. And literally, you said fun. Fun for me is being in those moments that, you know, you can be in a very, very, uh, difficult discussion, it may even be adversarial, and you're able to see the fun side of what's going on and make other people see it. And that's really interesting for me, all of those moments are interesting in terms of just fun moments, I would say in our business and in my career and my job, traveling with my colleagues is always fun. That's when you bond. I have a colleague who, you know, who, wherever we go in the world, and in this case, fundraising, she finds the one Japanese restaurant you can be in Austin, Texas, you can be in the middle of South Africa, and we find a nobu like restaurant there. And it's just fun, you know, having intense days and finding some plays. And it's humorous that we always go for the same type of plays wherever we are, you know, in the world. And that's a good, fun memory.

Speaker A: So, you know, one of the things that you and I certainly share, and I think places we've had fun is these gatherings of women. And I know you said something you really enjoy is mentoring women. But there's something very special and unique about bringing together groups of women in our industry. I think we see this collective, like, lowering of the shoulders and sort of a relaxation that happens when we're all able to be together. And so maybe talk about that. Talk about, you know, why has that been important to you? And why do you think you've naturally become someone who coalesces in bringing groups of women together?

Speaker C: So, uh, years ago, when I first moved to London, I hadn't yet started dpi, and we were at one of the private equity conferences here in London, and three of us decided to go to dinner. And women in private equity, two were LPs, and me as a GP, we went to a restaurant, and we were having quite a fun and intense conversation. And then suddenly one of us looked around and pointed out we were the only table of women in the entire restaurant. By the way, we were the only women in the restaurant. That was the time that the area we were in in London was known as Hedge fund City. And we were the only women. And from that point on, two of us started doing dinners for women every year. So one of us in Washington and me in London, my dinners have grown, that we've had dinners with 85 women, and they've tended to be senior women. And it's grown because I think women are looking for an environment that you just described once in a while that we can get together. Yes. The shoulders can go down, and we can talk about those things that are, uh, important to us or may bother us or excite us. And there's somebody there or many women there who will understand what we're talking about. So it's this need that we all have as human beings to be seen to be understood, and in return, see and understand someone else. So that's why it's important. Those dinners are also highlights. They're a lot of fun, and I will keep doing them. And I also will point out, the first time I came to the US For a Pe Win dinner, this is before we had started Pe Win in Europe and in Africa. It was another moment of a, uh. Aha. Right. So here are women, and I feel so comfortable here, and they're not talking about the same things as a business dinner with men or men and women. And it's very natural. I loved the needs and leads, which is something we do in Pe Win because it, uh, allows, in a structured way for us to express, you know, both what we need and what we can give to other women at the dinner. And it's a wonderful thing. So that was also an enlightening moment. And when I do my dinners, I steal that also. That's great.

Speaker A: As you have seen, Kelly, imitation is the serious form of flattery. Right?

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Couldn't agree more. Well, so we talked a little bit about failure, and, uh, you know, we've all had those moments that maybe we would define as failure or maybe, you know, teachable moments. Is there something that stands out to you in your career that you say, wow, this happened to me, and I'm so glad it did because it got me to this next place?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think all failure does that, um, because it makes you stand up, uh, and figure out what you're doing, what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong, Are you in the right place? So for me, a failure was. I wouldn't say it was as much as a failure as a bunch of things that maybe didn't go right. That made me realize that, you know, I wanted to pivot to what I said, you know, from investment banking to private equity, from emerged market to emerging markets. So for me, it was a number of things that maybe didn't go as well, you know, and not an overall failure, maybe, but maybe that constitutes failure, that a bunch of things didn't go right. And again, you know, maybe my problem is. And I'll tell you a story, Kelly. When my kids were young, they always asked, what's your favorite color? And I said, I don't have one. I like all these different colors. What's your favorite number? I don't have one. I have, like all these different numbers. Maybe my answer is, I don't have one instance. I have a whole bunch of them. So both things that went wrong and things that stand out in life, maybe that's just who I am. I learned from a lot of things, and they stand out in my head. Not one particular thing.

Speaker A: Right, right. What I think that is emblematic of is the fact that, again, you can have a lot of things that you think are failures or maybe, you know, didn't turn out the way you wanted to. But I. I believe when you look back at your life, the sum total, it all makes sense and you understand why those things happen, I think, which is why it's so important to just stay calm, take a breath, talk to someone you trust, help to put it into context. I, uh, really, truly believe that the universe leads you to where you're supposed to be. And sometimes it's. It may feel a little uncomfortable when it's happening, but ultimately it works out for the best.

Speaker C: I agree. And in the UK we have the saying, stay calm and carry on.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yes. And so. And it is the fact that when things are going well, it's never as good as you think, and when things are going poorly, it's never as bad as you think. And, um, if we can moderate to stay calm and understand that, then you can get into the zone of thinking that, what do I do now?

Speaker A: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, now I want to move on to my favorite part of moments that made her, which is our lightning round. So I'm just going to ask you some questions and get a quick response from you. And my first question is, what's a great book or a podcast or something TV show that you've seen or read or listened to recently that you'd like to share?

Speaker C: I would say the book Sapiens by Yuval Harari, and he writes lots of books. So what's on my desk now is the book Next. So Sapiens is a Great book because I'm so interested. Early Human history. And it takes us from very early to now. Next is about communication from when we started as human beings to now. So to me, those topics are fascinating.

Speaker A: Oh, those are good ones. I've heard. Heard people talk about sapiens before, I think even on this podcast. So we will, we will definitely flag that one for everyone. What's your cell phone wallpaper?

Speaker C: My kids.

Speaker A: Yeah, that was probable. That's probably our top response. If you had a career other than private equity, what would it be?

Speaker C: Being a chef. So I own, um, I haven't counted lately. Somewhere between 250 and 400 cookbooks. I taught myself to cook and taught myself to relax by reading cookbooks. So I love to cook. And so, of course, you know, there was the thought that maybe I should have been a chef. I love to cook. Ah.

Speaker A: Uh, well, as you know, my husband loves to cook and tell the story. I think you told it at, uh, when we were last together. Of your little one and how. How when you had dinner parties, right?

Speaker C: Yes. So we talked about the women's dinners. The second women's dinner that I did here in London for private equity women was at my house. And my kids knew that was going to happen. I think my son was maybe 4 or maybe 5 at the time, and my daughter was three years older. So they both said to me, what can we do to help? And I said, well, you know, anything you want. And my son said, can I be a waiter? And I said, yes, you can be a waiter. And so we had that conversation. About an hour later, the doorbell rang and a whole bunch of women came at the same time. Before I could make it to the door, he got to the door and he had dressed up in his only black suit with a black bow tie. That's what he thought waiters should look like. And he opened the door. And to this day I hear from the women because many of them are good friends. Many of them come to my annual dinner. They said we looked up, then we had to look way down. There's this guy there to this day. They asked me about my son. And, uh, shocked to see him because now he's 21, he's a junior in college, and he's not that small anymore.

Speaker A: I love that story. I just think that is so darling. So are you a dog or a cat person?

Speaker C: You know, I like both, but I've only had dogs in my entire life, from the time I was a child. I have a dog now, a Westie, but yes, I like both.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, me too. I like both. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Speaker C: Again, you're talking to a person who is not usually talks about one thing. But honestly, I really think, even though this is such a cliche, uh, I love the advice. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. Because in our careers we're always going to have tough situations. We should just expect it. And when it comes around, that's when we have to put in twice the effort.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I really admire people who, when things get difficult, they're the ones who step into the breach. You know, they're not afraid to step in, to have the messy conversation or to deal with the difficult situation. Uh, I mean, I do that myself, but I really admire that in other people because it is those hard things. So many people run from those and shirk from those. And I really admire the people who do that and try to do it with grace.

Speaker C: And I will say, for those of us and you've done this, who've built firms. And also a piece of advice. Those of us who want to build firms, two things that come from that. First, we forget with all the analysis and all of the technology, that really what's behind success is people. So you want, number one, as Stephen Schwarzmith said, 10 out of 10 people, people who are number 10 in how capable they are. And two, you want people who have an ownership mentality, and that is what we're talking about, that, you know, when something needs doing, they will step in, no matter how tough it is, and they will volunteer and they will take care of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. The ownership mentality point is a really important one. And you know, that comes from the most junior person up to the actual owner of the firm. I used to say, you know, when we started cfig, I fig I thought of it as a mom and pop shop. And that meant no matter who you were, you had to be willing to pitch in. So that if one of my analysts was working on a pitchbook and I was there and I could go get them dinner, then I should do. Because it didn't matter in the hierarchy. We all had to think about it as owners because we will all benefit from the success. And I think those are the types of firms that encourage and reward that type of thinking that ultimately do the best.

Speaker C: Yes. And as CEO, uh, as you well know, you are CEO and chief bottle washer, you do the same thing.

Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So is there one thing we don't know about you? Yet that people might be very interested to know.

Speaker C: My daughter's getting married.

Speaker A: I didn't know that. Congratulations. How exciting. And where is that going to take place?

Speaker C: Not yet decided.

Speaker A: Okay, well, we will stay tuned for that information, but blessings to her and to you. That's so wonderful. And Runa, I want to thank you for being my guest today. We have been trying to make this work for the for quite a while and because I knew it would be so wonderful. And it has been. It's always a delight to see you, but having this much time to actually talk to you is a real pleasure.

Speaker C: Kelly, thank you for having me on this podcast. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Speaker D: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Moments that Made Her. I'm Scotty Wardell, co Chair of the Pe Win Communications Committee. As a reminder, the content in this recording is for general information purposes only and does not constitute advice. We give no assurance or warranty regarding accuracy, timeliness, or applicability of any of the contents of this recording. This recording is provided as is and PE Win expressly disclaims any and all warranties expressed or implied to the extent permitted by law. Except where acknowledged. The copyright and all intellectual property rights in all material in this recording are owned by Pe Win and our affiliates and should not be reproduced without our prior written consent. Other organizations or brand names used within this recording are, uh, for identification purposes only. The content set forth in this recording may not be sold, reproduced or distributed without Pe Win's prior written consent. Any third party trademarks, service marks and logos are the property of their respective owners. Any further rights not specifically granted herein are reserved. Thank you again for joining us today, and we hope you tune in for another episode soon.