#097 Mother Games | Creating a New Way of Seeing the World

Speaker A: We're not trying to create a myopic worldview. We're trying to create an expansive worldview where people can have the experiences with technology that they are in the driver's seat for

Speaker B: welcome to the Mid Stage Startup Momentum Podcast. Each week we interview up and coming founders of some of the fastest growing mid stage startups across the world. Your host is Roland Siebelink who will share some of his own experience helping startups scale from 10 to 1,000 people in a few years. Here is Roland.

Speaker C: Hello and welcome to the Midstage Startup Momentum podcast. My name is Roland Sieblink and I'm a coach and ally to many of the fastest growing startups in the whole world. Today we have with us a very, very special guest. It is Kelsey, who is the founder and CEO of, of Mother Games, or Matru, as she says the official company is called in Sanskrit. Kelsey, I've never ever had a company that named itself in Sanskrit. What is the story behind that?

Speaker A: That's a great question. Um, so we wanted to kind of harken back to the idea of originating something new. Um, and Matru, um, Mat is the, is the root of matrix materialize of matter, of mothering, of materializing. Um, and that idea of like the womb as the matrix space, right, where things together and something new emerges and that there's this transformational experience through the act of like cultivating with intention. And so um, that's what we wanted to do with the company and we decided let's name it Matru. And our first public division is Mother Games. Um, and that was a little bit tongue in cheek. Uh, you know there's a lot of companies out there like King Games and, and uh, and we just were like well let's, let's play with this a little bit and let's uh, let's make it about mothering. Um, and, and not so much in the mommy sense of the word, but more so in the sense of like, what if you were to create something from nothing? What if you were to into the world? What would that look like?

Speaker C: I have some specific questions on that, but before I start, uh, with my interpretation, I'd love to hear. Kelsey, what does Mother Games, what does MU bring into the world that's different? What impact are you hoping to have? How are you making the world a better place?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so, um, ah, Matru. The company holds the mission of creating transformational experiences that um, affect the inner and outer world of every being who comes into uh, interaction with what we Create. And in our first division, mother games, um, we are doing that through gameplay. And so when we talk about transformational experiences or when we talk about this idea of materializing something, um, something new, um, I think that comes into the idea of like how are we creating a ah, new way of seeing the world? And in the course of our gaming division we're really talking about um, how could a game transform the way that you perceive reality? Um, and when we think about games and the cultural impact that they have, um, games are one of the most neuroplastic tools that exist in our society. They are rapid learning tools, in fact like 20 times more effective at creating a new neural pathway than most other habit forming mechanisms. And so if you really want to create transformation of the human experience and the way that reality is perceived, games are one of those like super efficient loops, um, be able to do that. And our first game is called Lazou. And um, it will debut this year. And the tagline of the game is the only way out is within.

Speaker C: Excellent. Okay, so that transformation that you mentioned, right, as the key impact that you want to reach in the world is really about um, a personal transformation, about almost, perhaps even spiritual transformation, whatever words you want to put on it. Uh, that is uh, very much about your personal experience in life, is that right?

Speaker A: I would say yes. And I think also from a time and a place perspective, why now? Um, is also an important question. And um, I think that in the age of um, agents, um, how are we rediscovering our own internal agency? How are we reconnecting, um, with our humanity and how are we actually rising to the occasion, um, where you know, so much is being abstracted away from the, from the human experience and how are we reconnecting with that, um, in ourselves? Um, so human agency is a big theme I think in our company. It's like how are you creating the reality that you want to see in the world around you? Um, and, and some of that starts with empowering yourself and seeing yourself from the very beginning, um, and understanding your full, um, you know, your full level of expression. It's.

Speaker C: So ah, what made you come to this idea? What is the origin story behind Matru?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, so, um, I had a company when I was in my early 20s. Um, and it was, um, we analyzed 10 text. So it was, you know, LLMs were not a hot term at the time, but we did unstructured natural language processing, um, very, very fast. And so we could parse text um, pretty quickly and understand well what is the Predominant concept from a summarization perspective from a statistical breakdown. Um, and uh, you know, at the time we um, were, you know, Twitter had not IPO'd. Um, Facebook didn't own Instagram or WhatsApp. Um, and it was a data free for all. So uh, you could get access to the entire Twitter fire hose or the entire Facebook newsfeed, um, you know, uh, more or less. And there was no, you know, federation of that. And so, um, we were analyzing that for large news companies, large media companies and um, helping to shape like well, what is the dominant narrative of the common person and how being represented in media. Um, you learn a lot, um, and learn a little bit about, um, you know, what your personal perspective is on the entire data landscape. Um, that close to it, like, you know, you're, you're interacting with petabytes of information. Um, and it's like, oh, wow, well, wait a second. Like, well, why, why is it that large institutions seem to know more about me than I know about myself? Like. Right, you know, and so that opens up some questions, right?

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker A: And so, um, I kind of fast forward, I got out of the technology business for a while and needed to have that kind of come, ah, to reset, come to Jesus moment of understanding. Like, wow, this is how the world works. Right, Right. Um, and I also had a time of reflection being like, if you check off all the boxes that you were told are the peak of, of career of existence on this planet. Right. Um, and you sit there and examine it and decide like, well, wait a second, what did I really achieve, like at all? Um, and I had that reckoning, that internal reckoning of understanding. Um, and uh, started down that path of, of examining myself and really saying, well, what do I ethically align with and what do I care about and I think is important? And then I started to think like, well, what if you really were to reconnect with your own autonomy and what if you really were to reconnect with yourself and do it in a fun way? And that's how um, Mother came. Um, really, uh, Matru is messenger, a messenger service to say, um, you can be whoever you want to be. And by the way, um, you have a right to see yourself, um, at the highest level. Whether that like understanding yourself through data or whether it looks like understanding yourself through, um, through a game experience. Um, that is really where we're going to be taking things with the company.

Speaker C: You mentioned in one of your other articles that you're inviting players to participate in the process of creation with Lazou Right. Is that still going on? And can you explain what that really means?

Speaker A: Yes. So we're doing um, we're in our third playtest right now. Most games of our scale typically take years to open up to an alpha playtest community. We've been building much more like a consumer application. So you know, letting people in and experiencing it from the very early MVP proof of concept perspective and incorporating their feedback. So we're now in that third phase of the process optimizing how is the experience going? Um, and then we will debut the game. Um, we did our first playtest within seven months of uh, you know, beginning our production build, which is kind of a rare thing. Uh, it is, yeah, yeah. Um, and then in addition to that we're enabling players to um, they can basically connect in um, their own data. Uh, and we um, have built a way for folks to see themselves through that data.

Speaker C: How far are you. I think you mentioned your pre revenue. Right. Uh, but have you done substantive testing? Like how many people are on the game? Is it just basically still a lab project? Where are you at?

Speaker A: That's a good question. Um, so, um, we have around six figures of users who have signed up um, for pre signup. Um, and um, we have a super active discord, uh, community and playtester base. Um, we are still in private alpha, but certainly the numbers are looking good. Um, our prior playtest folks were playing for over average. Session time was over 36 minutes which for a mobile game most of it sits around that 11 to 15 minute mark.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That seems really long. Right?

Speaker A: Very long. And it's just yesterday we opened up our third play test and it's already far exceeding that kind of um, 36 minute session.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: So Kelsey, you mentioned before that you've basically been pre inviting people into that community as you now also mentioned with your numbers. Right. So, um, is that close to that trend of building in public or is it not quite going that far? And what do you think about building in public to the degree you've thought about it?

Speaker A: Ah, a lot of times I think building in public trends towards other builders. So it's kind of like building people. You, you are talking to your peer group, um, but not necessarily talking to the group that you're, or talking with the group that you're serving. Um, and we are building in a way that is talking with the, with the people who we are actually building for.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: So building in public for me is kind of like a trend on the cusp of like you know, being a founder is cool. Or I'm gonna reveal all of my, like, you know, my data to the world, you know, as how it's. How it's like to build a company. And I'm really less concerned about appealing to, like, other founders or, um, um, investors. And I'm more interested in creating a super strong bond and trust, actually. Trust, um, with consumer users who, honestly, for the past 20 years have been, you know, using ad companies on a daily. Like Google is an ad like Facebook.

Speaker C: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker A: Right. Like, and there's very high levels of mistrust. So when we're building in public, we need to be building in public with the people who we're actually serving, not building in public for the optics of the industry.

Speaker C: Right. What are some further ways in which you can engender trust with your user base? Um, maybe things that other companies haven't quite figured out to do yet.

Speaker A: Well, um, it's interesting you say that. We are actively working right now on drafting, um, kind of a new take on what is a privacy policy.

Speaker C: Ah, okay.

Speaker A: So, um, you know, I think that right now, um, if you. Right now, if you go to our privacy policy page, it's off the shelf privacy policy that the typical copy paste

Speaker C: from an early stage. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And we were like, this actually just doesn't hold. Like, this is not the future. I think engendering trust is about, um, you know, being okay to question the status quo and then publicly talking about the fact that you are interrogating. Why is this the status quo? Right. Um, and saying publicly, like, yeah, actually we started with this privacy policy just because that was the table stakes, the easiest thing off the ground. And then we realized, like, wait a second.

Speaker C: Why is that exactly Right?

Speaker A: Yeah, to me, you know, um, that's one way. I also think admitting, um, your faults is really important as well. Like, when something happens that you're not super proud of, um, you have to take responsibility for it.

Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, this is usually a question I ask at the very end. We'll probably keep going a little bit beyond, but it's just so connected right now. So what are some of the learnings that Kelsey has learned in the meanwhile that you would maybe convey to founders coming behind you, younger founders, potentially people with less experience in life, if that's

Speaker A: even possible, because the human life is a finite experience. I think we have a moral obligation to understand, like, how are we putting human attention, um, on something, and why are we putting that attention on that thing? Um, and I kind of, I think about it like, um, an Agent arena relationship, um, where interesting. You know, it's like, well, if the agent is, is. Is the person and the arena is the company or the creation that you're making, um, are you creating a narrowing, um, agent arena relationship where, you know, it starts out as a fun thing that you can use and then eventually it becomes something that you're so addicted to that you cannot live without. That's a narrowing agent arena relationship. Right, right, right. Um, and then you can think about like, uh, you know, opening, narrow opening, agent arena relationship, where each interaction is like, wait, if this is possible, then what? If that's possible.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, and you know, by the way, both can be incredibly valuable businesses. Um, both can have like, very serious impact in the world. Um, and it's a choice as to are you creating a narrowing experience for people or are you creating a broadening and opening and expanding? And I think that that is a critical question to ask.

Speaker C: Um, I did have a question about your team, Kelsey. So you're somewhere between 11, 25 people, is that right? At this stage?

Speaker A: Yeah. So we're a little bit over 20 folks and distributed around the world. Um, we have, our headquarters is in New York. Um, we have some engineers, um, uh, in Brazil, and one of my co founders is Brazilian and then the other is Portuguese American. Um, and then we have, uh, some folks. Our entire game engineering team is in Ukraine. Um, okay. Yeah, we had a close connection to them in the very beginning.

Speaker C: How big did your previous team grow in your first startup? Do you remember how far you guys got?

Speaker A: We were 13.

Speaker C: Um, 13 as well.

Speaker A: But the company was acquired within 18 months, so it was a quick.

Speaker C: That was good. So you're now reaching to a scale that you haven't actually managed before, perhaps, or at least not as a startup. Right. Is that starting to make a difference in your life?

Speaker A: I think, um, the answer is yes. Um, and, um, I realized that everybody has different ways of processing information, of receiving information, of, um, different motivations. Um, and that's never going to change. And so you're going to continue to have increasing levels of uniqueness, um, throughout the company. Um, and learning how to interact with various management styles or various learning styles, um, is something that I feel, um, continuously humbled by. And so the m answer is yes, Yes, I am learning new basis.

Speaker C: Very good, Very good. Are you and your co founders working on some conscious way of actually helping the company scale? Like, uh, whether you bring in okrs or try to put, put some methodology in place or some rules of procedures, operating system, what is on the agenda, if anything.

Speaker A: Um, uh, so um, Hayesa who is uh, one of the co founders, she's head of operations and um, her approach is much more human centric and feeling centric. Um, and I think just even having an outlet of someone who you can talk to and process through, through ah, whatever you're experiencing, um, is something that I think is important. But I think from a performance driven perspective, um, we have key, let's call them key outcomes that are kind of like qualifying criteria. Um, whether you want to say that they're in the canonical OKR format or not. There certainly is. This is the objective and here's how we know we are getting there or not. Yeah, and so we have that as it relates to the game. Um, you know gaming is, is certainly a metrics game. Um, and so we have that and then I think um, how we measure whether we're achieving what we want to achieve from a um, from that kind of foundation, that data foundation, that idea. Humans deserve to own their own data. Um, that perspective. Um, it's a little bit more that um, we, we have to create that proof of concept and, and prove that um, that this is possible. And so um, it's a little more binary at the moment and um, a little bit less uh, OKR driven. It's m. More like let's, let's see if we can get this thing stood up.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: But yeah, we, we do that and then um, we also reorganize a lot and so.

Speaker C: Oh you do? Yeah.

Speaker A: So it's really around what stage is the company at, what does it need? And then what is this person's strengths or like zone of genius and how are we actively moving people into place and talking with them about hey, so we're gonna change course because you are super strong at this and we want to make sure that you're in your zone of genius for this thing.

Speaker C: Oh, I love that.

Speaker A: Yeah, certainly founders are bobbing and weaving all the time. Um, and you know, making sure that the person who is focusing on that thing is really invigorated and in love with what they're doing. Um, you're going to. It's the same thing we were just talking about. The machine is going to operate at a much better rate than if you're running up against friction. Um, and it's not no longer the right fit um, for that person in that time.

Speaker C: So if Matru grows really big and it has all the impact that you could possibly desire for it in the world, where are you going to be 10 years time from now, Kelsey.

Speaker A: Wow. Well, um, I want to redefine the consumer technology landscape. Um, and I believe that there's a future reality where, um, people can have the experiences with technology that they are in the driver's seat for. Um, and, uh, that means no more data silos. Um, that means, um, experiences like games and social networks and fun play, uh, or purchase experiences that are not extractive or reductive, um, and instead are empowering, um, enlivening, are able to be tweaked and changed according to who is using them. Um, we're not trying to create a myopic worldview. We're trying to create an expansive worldview. And so, um, yeah, so in 10 years, I think, um, uh, a new consumer landscape will exist. It's already happening. Um, with the advent of vibe coding and, you know, generative coding techniques, we're putting the building tools in the hands of, um, of the person. Like, not to quote Rick Rubin, but, like, Rick Rubin's over here being like, Vibe coding is the punk rock of the future. It's like, if you have something to say, you can say it now, you know?

Speaker C: Right, Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: M. And we're at a turning point. We're going to see an explosion of. Of consumer experiences.

Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: And so 10 years from now, this will be where we are is, um, the entire landscape of how consumers interact with technology today, um, will be dramatically different.

Speaker C: How about any numbers you have in mind?

Speaker A: Numbers. Right. Well, I'm going to be very honest with you, and I don't know if I'm pulling one of those things where I'm like, what does that really mean? But, um, 4.5 billion people around the world have, um, data access rights. Um, uh, and obviously there's more users, uh, of Facebook, um, than that number. And so I think we, um, would like to. When you look at a global tipping point around ideology or around trans. Right. You need that 3% of the global population to create, uh, you know, sort of this, like, escape velocity of change. Um, and in order to bring about a new consumer landscape, we need 3% of consumers. M. To be interested and using and, and enjoying and loving and really kind of building with us, um, what we're talking about here.

Speaker C: Um, very cool. Okay. That's a number. I love it. That's very good. Kelsey. If people have made it to the end of the podcast, what can they help? Matru, Mother Games, Lazou with. What are you looking for from the audience?

Speaker A: So if, uh, you want to learn more about yourself. I, uh, encourage you to go to lazu.mothergames.com and take the house quiz. It will tell you a little bit about your personality style and, um, who you are and then stay tuned for pre signup for the game. Um, if you are interested in kind of this future reality where, uh, consumers are in the driver's seat and, uh, um, there are no zookeepers, if you will, um, then, uh, drop your email on mothergames.com uh, we're excited to continue to make connections with people who are interested in a reality where, um, we can transform the current landscape.

Speaker C: That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining the Midstage Startup Momentum podcast. Kelsey Falter, the co founder and CEO of Matru Matro Games. Uh, this has been a fascinating conversation. I really appreciate you coming onto the show.

Speaker A: Thank you, thank you. I really appreciate your time and telling these stories.

Speaker C: Exactly right. And for, uh, everyone else listening to the podcast, there will be tons more stories and more founders as of next week. Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker B: Like what you heard? Subscribe to this podcast and leave a review. Tune in next time for more hot startups and interviews with some of the highest momentum startup founders in tech today.