
Meet the Creatives Β· 2025-05-17 Β· 14 min
Rob Johnson uses his own experience with the Underexposed Podcast to explore how metrics-driven thinking can distort our perception of success and failure. Despite the project yielding only 3,000 downloads - a fraction of what Meet the Creatives achieves daily - Rob reveals that the conversations with photographers like Angie Hayes, Victoria Will, Richard Maltz, and Josh Taeus fundamentally rewired his understanding of his creative purpose and led him to recognize photography as his true passion over design. He discusses how vanity metrics can obscure genuine value: the relationships built, skills developed, and clarity gained during that period proved far more valuable than download numbers suggested. Drawing on his recovery journey, therapy, and meditation practice, Rob explores the psychology of comparison (benchmarking himself against Chris Do, Chase Jarvis, and Debbie Millman) and self-pity, ultimately arguing that humility and gratitude allow us to recognize success where conventional metrics fail. The episode tackles imposter syndrome, career setbacks (including being fired from six or seven freelance jobs), and the non-linear nature of creative growth - particularly relevant for early-career creators, recent graduates, and anyone navigating uncertainty.
Rob's Underexposed Podcast yielded only 3,000 downloads but included transformative conversations with photographers like Angie Hayes, Victoria Will, Richard Maltz, and Josh Taeus that rewired his entire career direction and clarified his passion for photography - demonstrating that real value often lies outside metrics.
Rob recommends developing humility, practicing gratitude, and using therapy and meditation to recognize that you're likely still early in your actual journey; comparing your chapter 2 to their chapter 20 feeds self-pity rather than motivation.
Rob was fired from six or seven freelance design jobs in a row, with his longest tenure at a design agency being just two weeks after leaving school - a series of failures that ultimately led him to discover his true passion for photography.
Rob quotes Sean Adams saying 'it's gonna take longer than you wanted to, but that's how life works,' emphasizing that he only felt he truly hit his stride in the last one to two years despite working in media for five or six years total.
After a difficult psychedelic experience where he felt he'd lost his sense of self and identity, Rob looked at his Facebook objectively and was struck by the beauty of his life - his wife, family, and actual relationships - rather than the curated version, similar to the epiphany in It's a Wonderful Life.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
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Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Foreign. This episode today is called Reframing Failure. And by the way, I'm Rob. What's up? If you're new to the show, thanks for being here. Rate, Review subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Okay, here we go. Reframing Failure. Recently I took a look at the analytics for the podcast that I had started earlier this year called Underexposed Podcast, which is now hosted here on Meet the Creatives. I still talk to photographers and do all that. I just do it here as well as doing other episodes. Um, so I'm not just talking to only photographers, but I looked at the analytics recently and I was like, that whole experience on the one hand seemed like a colossal waste of time and an epic failure by the numbers. Like, I think all together, the 14 episodes with some of like the biggest photographers in the world, I think I garnered like 3000 total downloads. I saw that and I was like, fuck man, why did I do that for? Like, I had Meet the Creatives. It was somewhat going. And yes, I needed time to recalibrate and yes, I needed time to sort of find myself and see if I still wanted to do this thing. Uh, but damn, there have been times where I've gotten almost that many downloads, like in a day on this podcast. Just to give some, some context. Maybe not like 3000, but like, you know, like 1000 1500. That's about like the average of how many people listen to this show, uh, a day on good days. So, um, but even that, right? That's like, okay, that sounds really great. That's amazing. The fact that anyone would listen to this show at all is just incredible to me, let alone, you know, 1000 1500. But then you start to think about, you start to get into this sort of comparison trap. You think about, I think about people like Chris do and Chase Jarvis and Debbie Millman and all these people and it's like, ugh, uh, um, I'm nowhere near that. I'm a failure. But I have to reframe the way I think about what it is that I'm doing. That's like the self pity part of my brain, right? It's like I'm never gonna be really doing this thing like I want to. I've got all this gear, I don't use it all. Why aren't I further along in my career? Why aren't I doing more? Uh, it's really easy to get into that place, but through sobriety and through lots of therapy and meditation and reflection. I know that sounds like very woo woo, but that's Just where I am at my life right now. I've done a lot of self reflecting, um, and sort of processed a sense of gratitude for what it is that I've accomplished. But I've also processed the pain of some of the failures and things that didn't work out like I wanted to. If I have humility and I can look and see that there were times where I wasn't working as hard as I could have been on this podcast. I wasn't so thoughtful as I am now about audio and about the quality and the editing and stuff like that. And I could look at it also too, like, oh, I've been at this for a long time, but really I've only been at this for like five or six years. And two of them I really, in the last two, I've only felt like I really hit my stride. And in the last year in particular is when I really feel like the podcast is at a place where I'm really proud of it and where I want it to be. It's not to say that I haven't had great guests, but in terms of this being a viable business product, I feel like I really only have just sort of just begun. But it's really difficult to navigate those feelings of not being good enough, of failure, of times where I was limiting myself, whether it be through alcohol and drugs or you know, just self doubt or shit from like trying to prove people wrong and all these different things right. But as, ah, I've gotten older, I've just learned to be m more kind to myself. But it's just really important if you who's listening to this feels the same way, to just take a deep breath and maybe I don't want to speak for you, but in my own experience, if I can go back in a time machine and show myself where I am today, I would have never been able to imagine. And it's not to say that I'm doing anything that's that extraordinary, but everything I thought I knew about what the future was going to be like, it is completely different than that. And in some ways it's sort of like a letdown. And in other ways it's. I didn't, I would have never been able to envision such a beautiful life. And that's what's kind of cool about life is that it's sort of a, uh, contradiction in that, in that way. And there were a lot of times where I feel it felt like with this podcast where I really didn't hit the mark. But that has allowed Me to be able to do that now. Like, I was just listening the other day to a podcast that I did during the time of recording, uh, Underexposed Podcast. That podcast that was like, quote unquote, a failure in my own mind just because of like vanity metrics and because of the numbers and stuff like that. But the conversations that I had during that time were some of the most exceptional, influential conversations of my life. Angie Hayes, Victoria Will, um, Richard Maltz, Josh Taeus, all of those conversations rewired and reframed my whole life. In actuality, that time of being sort of separated from Meet the Creatives and just in this place where I was willing to try something new. If I can reframe that, I can look at all the positive things that came from it. Those amazing relationships, the classes that I took to, um, become a better photographer. Focusing in and recognizing that photography, not design, but photography, is my true passion. That's the thing that I want to do the most. I still have all those dreams and aspirations that I had at that time. But I gotta learn to reframe things and be okay with the fact that things are going to take a long time. And I'm back here now at Meet the Creatives. And had I never come back to Meet the Creatives, I would have never had the chance to talk to all the amazing people that I've met, uh, already so far in this journey. I just did a Q and A, um, two weeks ago with Chris, uh, do and Brian Collins. That was like one of the best nights of my life. I got to just hang out with Chris Dole. We were like in this parked car outside of New York City and I was like doing in person podcasts again and it felt so good. I think one of the biggest things that allows me to reframe these things that I think of as failures into something good and to find a sense of gratitude for them is just having a humility to recognize that it's gonna take a long time and you have to really look for the good. I wasn't necessarily going to put this in there, but you know, whatever. If you're listening at this point, we're this far down this road. I remember this one time I had a really crazy, can't believe I'm saying this, but you want real, I'm going to give you real sober now. So the statute of limitations do not apply. I remember one time I had this crazy ass mushroom trip where I was such in fear for my life and I was just in the, this sunken place like this dark, terrible place, right? And I was just tripping my face off and I couldn't like was the worst night of my life and the best night of my life because I just um, I had lost my sense of identity. Yeah, I'm telling you, I was in the weeds, son. I was like gone. But I felt like I had lost my sense of self and identity and it was as if I did not know my own name. And then when I came out of it, I like went onto like my Facebook or whatever. I was like, okay, I'm gonna be alright. I'm gonna survive, I'm gonna live. This is like so crazy. I can't believe I'm sharing this. But, um, and then I came out of it and I looked at um, my Facebook and I looked at my life and I was still sort of coming out of the fog of uh, like that psychedelic fog. And I, I saw my life as it is, without judgment and I saw like the perfectly curated pictures and I was like laughing to myself like, my life doesn't look like this. This is so crazy. But it was. I was objective for the first time and I was looking at my life objectively and I was looking at my beautiful wife. My wife is absolutely stunning. And for whatever reason that's like lost on me sometimes, it just, you know, I'm so wrapped up in self and self pity. But I remember going to my Facebook and looking at my family and I was like, oh my God. It sort of felt like that moment in um, It's a Wonderful Life where he's like running down the street after he has this terrible thing and, and he's sort of like running down. He's just so happy. Like he has so much perspective that now he looks at his life and is like, oh my God. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. Like, Merry Christmas. You know what I mean? And that's sort of like how I felt in that moment. Life is inherently beautiful and it is good and there's a lot of like bad things out there. There's a lot of terrible stuff the world can be in cruel, evil, nasty place. But I do have these dreams and aspirations and these notions of like, what I can do. But I gotta be careful not to get too into self pity, too into anger, too into projection and all that different kind of like that shitty sort of behavior and focus on the good and look for where my life is really great and really beautiful. And it is in some ways. And if you're somebody who right now is kind of like struggling to find your way. And especially like just leaving school or you have this fear of like what it's, what it's going to be like when you leave college or you know, you've gotten bounced from jobs. I can relate to that. And there has been so much failure along the way. I got fired from my first seven or six or seven freelance jobs in a row. Like the longest tenure I had working at a design agency. Leaving school was like two weeks. But that failure led me to do what I really want to do, which is photography. And even right now, ah, in my photography job I'm like making not that much money doing editing, but I'm learning. I'm sort of doing this sort of like apprenticeship sort of thing right now. Uh, and that's good, right? But you know, it's really easy to focus on. Like, I wish I was making more money. But it will all come. I know it will come. I just gotta, um. This is both for somebody who's out there listening as well as auditory reminder to myself that, listen, Rob, things are gonna be okay. You just gotta sort of roll with the punches and recognize that you're a good person with a good heart and capable, uh, of doing good things. And it's gonna take longer than you wanted to, but that's how life works. That's a direct quote from Sean Adams, who will be coming on the show again soon. But yeah, that's pretty much it. What is that noise? Oh, it's my neighbor outside. Yeah. So I, uh, I'm grateful to Chris do for encouraging me to do this. I'm sure he probably didn't mean for me to talk about my crazy ass mushroom, uh, trip that reminded me of It's a Wonderful Life. But uh, it's just, that's honest. And I want to be more honest and sort of take ownership of this show and share with you guys the real real and just show that while it at times probably seems like, oh my God, Rob's doing this epic shit with Meet the Creatives. There's a lot of self doubt and a lot of negativity inside my own head. And uh, I am going to try and work at. I had to get him better with that. So. How to reframe failure? Am I a failure? Rob Johnson explores all the ideas on Meet the Creatives. Fall makes me think of it of this kind of stuff whenever it comes, like, you know what I mean? Like summer's all good vibes, you're at the pool and then all of a sudden, you know, September flies by. September Always feels like it's like 30 seconds. The next October rolls around. It's like, am I going to be able to do anything with my life before winter break? That is the question. Happens every year. That's it. Rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Underscore robjohnston J O H N S T O N on Instagram. Um, I was thinking about possibly putting it back to me, the creatives, but I want to try and do all sorts of different things, not just that one podcast, and maybe start showcasing more of my photography work, which I desperately need to do. So, lots of exciting stuff coming up. Uh, there's a few podcast guests that I'm currently in the process of scheduling, and I know that I've been throwing up a lot of, like, Throwback Thursdays and the Best of and all that different stuff, but, yo, when I tell you that the guests that are coming up are going to blow your mind, even, like, crazier than, you know, than, like, Jeremiah for the Lumineers, I thought that that was, like, going to be, like, my peak. I thought that was going to be the best thing that ever happened to my life. And while it was great, even more epic than that. No offense. Shout out to the Lumineers. Can't believe I'm friends with a guy from Lumineers. That is so cool. That episode with, uh, Brian Collins and Christo is coming out soon, as well as an individual podcast with Brian, but he's been traveling like a madman. And, uh, shout out to Aaron and everyone at Collins for, for hooking it up and making it happen. Uh, patience, people. I'm getting a lot of DMs about that. And we'll be here soon. That is going to set the world on fire. That Q and A. It is just fantastic. It is the most valuable advice that I've ever been able to. To get into one podcast. You want to talk about a banger? That episode is going to be like, like the Funkmaster Flex Noise Funk Master Flex. Shout out to the three people in New York who know what I'm talking about. Okay, that's it. Um, great review. Subscribe and have a podcast. Love you guys. Have a great week and happy, uh, Monday, everyone. If I get this out in time, goodbye.
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