Refocusing Your LinkedIn Content For Your ICP | Daniel Murray

Speaker A: Welcome to the mastering b2b marketing podcast. I'm your host, jesus McDonald. Enjoy the show. Hello, everyone. I have the one and only Daniel Murray. Daniel, welcome to the show.

Speaker B: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to bring you on mainly because of our experience, you know, going, uh, working together. I know you put something on LinkedIn as a LinkedIn post, talking about, um, hey, you have slots open, you know, for two weeks straight, um, for people to. That want to level up their LinkedIn game. And I was like, yeah, I'm totally down for that. Why not? I'm totally down for that. I want to do it. Um, I'm already, you know, on LinkedIn, posting consistently, uh, as, you know, providing WordPress website development, design maintenance for my own agency. And I'm always looking for ways to learn and grow. And I've already been liking your content. So I want to give this feedback. Right. Because I'm sure people that have you on their pockets are like, give me all these deep insights. Let me ask you all these things. Let me do. They're trying to get these golden nuggets, which I will, but. But I also want to provide you some encouraging feedback because as creators, we don't always get those positive signals as times. I've been following you for some time, and I love. When I think of memes, I think of you, Daniel Murray. I used to think of Gary Vee. I used to think of screenshots as Gary Vee, and he probably still does, but I think of you more as modern, more active. Um, in regards to the screenshots with the Twitter and everything, I'm not saying Gary Vee's old and dated. I'm just saying it reminds me of that style. And, you know, kudos to you and, like, for everything that you're doing. Because I love the Marketing Millennials epic title, too. I'm a millennial myself. But there's humor to it. And as a marketer, we're both marketers, I really resonated with a lot of the stuff, and it made, I feel like it. It brought a smile, a good laugh. Um, when I'm going through a LinkedIn feed. And a lot of that stuff doesn't bring, you know, laughter, humor. When I'm looking in through the linked, I think people are stepping up their game and trying to be something, what you're, who you've created. But then whenever you put that out there, hey, you know, opportunity to work together, um, for two weeks straight, I was like, sign me up, like I felt like I, I know you, which is very common for creators to hear from their audience. But I also felt like you're a marketer and you get it. You're practicing what you're preaching. And, yeah, I want to see what I can learn from you. And maybe I'm missing something. So that's why I wanted to go ahead and bring you on the show more than anything and provide you that positive feedback because it helps us as creators.

Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, it's funny because when I started going through my experience, I. It was trial and error. Like, I didn't want to. Like, I didn't set out to be known as the someone who said screenshots or someone who does memes. But I noticed that, uh, that was a gap in the market that hasn't been filled yet. At least on LinkedIn, I could be this. Like most people giving long page text posts or give it. But I think for me, I've come to realize that my LinkedIn approach is more like Costco. I like to call it Costco Sampler approach. Like, I'll give you a taste of some content, I'll give you something great. And then if you want to subscribe to my newsletter or listen to podcasts, that's when I'll give you more in depth. And that's how I think about social media now. But I think it's different for every, everybody. And I think, I think my approach is not like the end all, be, uh, all approach. I think it just for. I think. And like anything in marketing, you shouldn't, you shouldn't just copy other people's approaches because it's working for them because you don't know what their goals are. Um, um. And that's what a lot of people do. And you probably see it with websites as well. People copy websites because it's working for someone else. But at the end of the day, you should dissect what's working and then implement what works for your company and what doesn't work for your company. So that was a little bit of

Speaker A: a. Yeah, I think the thing that, the learning lessons that I. Some of it I was already doing, you know, working with you two weeks straight. Um, and I like the whole experience of the text message experience. Um, at first I was like, what is this, a spam text? Like, I didn't know who it was. I was like, oh, it's Daniel Murray, Awesome M. Marketing bestie. Here we go. And we ended up. You helped me to understand what's the goal And I think as marketers or creators, we can always forget that, like, what's the goal? Because we're trying to be everything to everyone. And that helped me because that's what I was struggling with. I was talking about websites, I was talking about, you know, my family here. I was talking about, um, I think you even mentioned, hey, you have a lot of great pictures about your family and everything like that, but let's narrow it down back to marketing. And I'm like, he's so right about this. I'm like, like, this is so hard, um, to just stay focused and in my lane. But then also figuring out, hey, who's your icp? And then figuring out, great, we're going to create content for your ICP. And then narrowing down, what's your LinkedIn headline? Right? Okay, let's start your headline with a solution first, since, you know, you're a business owner and you're providing, you know, website services. That was super helpful and refreshing. A lot of it was reassuring too. Um, but stuff like that where I'm like, wow, these little tweaks and even you looking at my LinkedIn profile and basically doing like an audit was very helpful because a lot of times I can feel like I'm creating content, but I'm like, okay, I can always feel insecure. Am I hitting the right audience? Is my profile off when it comes to conversions? Like, maybe I'm leaving some money on the table, or is my content just not having the right hooks? And even talking about that, that was also helpful. I remember we're talking about page builder for one of my LinkedIn posts. You're like, send me your post for today. I was like, all, ah, right, Good thing I worked on my post for today, or else I would have been like, scratching my head. And I did. And I think it was something along the lines of, you know, your page builder should colon. And you're like. It was something along the lines of like, you didn't say it was boring, but more like, yeah, we need to up that your first line should be very.

Speaker B: I was, uh. My whole thing is like, a lot of people when they doing LinkedIn posts, like, they, they're talking like they, the audience understands what like, they are thinking. So.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: So, uh, like, page builder to you is like not like a simple term, like you use it every single day and everything like that. But to me, like, even for me, I'm marketer, I know what a page builder is, but I don't do it every day. So I don't know like the ins and outs. Like, something like that will spark my attention first and then go deeper is always a way. And people just forget that. Like, to simplify it for a more broader audience, I always like to say like this. There's two types of LinkedIn posts out there. There's LinkedIn posts that you're going to give a keynote, and that's more broad. And then there's LinkedIn posts that you would give it, like, in a Mastermind group, like, to a small audience. And a lot of people want to grow on LinkedIn and they're like giving Mastermind posts all the time, which is good. You'll grow slowly. But if your goal is to grow faster, you have to simplify it for a more broad audience to understand what you're saying. And that's like in a keynote. In a keynote, you have to, you have to say things in a more simpler way so a broader audience would understand what you're doing. And that's why I think a lot of people. And also, like, I don't know, another thing on the hook part of it is I think a lot of people forget that the first line and the second line of content, or especially the first line, they spend hours working on, like, the piece, but they don't forget that, like, if nobody's gonna stop and read, it doesn't matter. Um, right.

Speaker A: And that was me. I focus more on the meat of my post, but I, I'm not focusing on that first, second, third line.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, I think that's one, uh, of my good friends Trong. He, he's on, um, he's on Twitter. But he always says, like, the, when he starts pieces, he thinks of, like, what the hook first. And then he writes the piece instead of writing the piece and then writing the hook. Because if you figure out what's a good hook and what could grab a user's attention, because it doesn't. Like, a lot of people forget that, like the best. Once you read, writing content is only half the battle. The second battle is getting the content read. Um, so the people forget to market their own content. And the way you market your content is one is eyeballs. Like, let's say email. The first thing you should be thinking about is like, how. What's the subject line? How can I get this email open before people could read it on a website? The first thing you should focus on is like, what is that your headline text that you're gonna put in your website? And what is that image you're gonna put to attract Someone so they read more. A lot of people forget about like that. They just spend the time on all this stuff in the middle when like the first goal is to get someone to read that first line. If they're not interested, they're just going to scroll or leave your page or not open your email.

Speaker A: And yeah, so that was a mind mindset shift for me because I focus on the meat and I put that meat on Google Documents and then I would come back and I wouldn't, I wouldn't put too much time on the first, second or third line. I'm like, this is genius because I thought about it, but I'm not considering the audience in regards to, well, you got to reel them in. You got to maybe throw some stats, maybe throw a question, maybe a bold statement. Start, um, from there. So that was super helpful for me. Thank you for that. That was super helpful. Another thing too, that was helpful as a reminder was who are the top influencers, you know, in your niche, you know, B2B marketing, B2B SaaS marketing. And then go into the comment section, who's liking who's commenting and engage with them, send them a connection request, send them a short message, which is good, right? And I, I mean I've, I've done that before in the past, but I stopped doing it. The reason why I stopped doing it is, well, LinkedIn is cracking down. I don't want to get into LinkedIn gel. That was my excuse to not do it again. I'm just going to post organically and just let, let the followers come to me. If I build it, they'll come type mindset. But that was a good reminder. Kind of like, wow, I stopped doing that. And that was so helpful because I remember when I started doing that and you were even one of my guys, that I would actually go into the, you know, LinkedIn comment section and I would send people, you know, B2B marketers. I would send them, um, a short connection request and saying, hey, I noticed we both follow Daniel Murray. Full transparency. We both followed down your Murray would love to connect with you here on LinkedIn. Accept instantly because we're both following you. You get what I'm saying?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that the people forget that. Like one, the reason why that strategy works when you're starting out is because when you start connecting with people who are commenting on other marketers, it means that they're probably going to be interested in a topic that you're talking about and they're, they're active on LinkedIn and they're liking other people's posts. If you just connect with random people in your, in your ICP, they might not, they not might not be using LinkedIn. They might just be someone who has a LinkedIn profile. So it's better to be connecting with people who are that. And then also like what I used to do at the beginning is I would connect with people and be like, hey, we're both in market. Like we both marketing. I look forward to seeing your content in my feed. I just want to be able to see it in my feed. So I'm sending you this um, request and then I did that and then your next job once you've done that is just put, put out that content consistently so they, they, they end up seeing it. So um, that's the part where people forget too is like one is getting people to be a connection and two, like every, every post that you put out there, like at the end of the day, like, uh, should be relevant to like the audience you're connecting to and be somewhat like Ross Simmons says this, I say this too. Sometimes it's like, like if your post isn't like educate, entertain, inform, inspire, like go back to the drawing board and, and, and make sure it hits one of those because emotionally, like that's gonna cause emotion. If like, oh, I learned something. If you inspire someone, they, they, they get some sort of motion like, oh, I'm going to go do something. If it's actionable, they go take action. They doing something off of your content. If your content is just there. And the second thing going back to what you're talking about before is that like when you're writing posts, like your job, like your whole purpose, like if you're writing on LinkedIn is to get an audience to read. It is not to write like a diary. Um, a lot of people like write posts like they think like they're writing, they're like, oh, this is the greatest post in the world. Like people forget that like they're writing for an audience. And even if you think that's the best post in the world, but do people actually care about that topic right now in stuff? I like to call that content market fit. Kind of like product market, but content market fit. Does that content fit the, the, the market which is LinkedIn right now? And a lot of people just say like, oh, this is a cool post, everybody's gon like it. But that's not true if you haven't not been in. That's why I say like go into comments, see what people are asking questions about. Write content on that. Go look at your comments, see what they're asking. Write content on that. Because if someone's asking a question and you see it multiple times, they're probably going to like your post. A lot of people just put out, like, stuff. Obviously, if you're a thought leader and you can put out great stuff, but it's going to work. But like Justin Walsh, like, what he does is he nails down like that first, second, third line so you get to read it and then he nails on the meat. He has a structure for every post. It's like a true.

Speaker A: I read his from beginning to end.

Speaker B: Yeah, he methodically does that. So like a lot of he writes good content, but he has a structure. He knows, like the first, second, third line so important. And the meat's so important. Then is this something at the end to like, either cause someone to engage, click a cta, do some sort of action, like, is there something to cause action? And he knows that, um, and he does it in every single post. It's becomes a system after a while. Once you've done it, a lot of times you just have to remember, like, write the first line, then do the read. And uh. So, uh, that's enough of my other range.

Speaker A: No, no, that's good. I think a lot of it too, that I learned was the first three lines. Like is super important. I would say top, and then consistency is second. I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I would say that's the majority of what the LinkedIn, you know, next level is. Um, um, when it comes to everything else, I felt like it was more like, okay, the engagement, all these other things that are super important too. But I mean, that's the way outside. Do you see it that way too, or do you see it differently?

Speaker B: I see, I see it in three different ways. I say, like, I know a lot of people blame the algorithm, uh, for their content not working well. Ah. And yeah, to be honest, the algorithm, uh, is your, the algorithm is your audience. So if your content is not performing well, it's probably because your audience doesn't like your content. And like that. It's a bluntly, like, saying statement. That's probably why. And even if someone's posting a tweet and they're liking it, you should figure out why they're liking the Tweet. Like, like LinkedIn is incentivized to push out content that people like. Like, that's what they're incentivized to do to keep people in the back. YouTube is incentivized to push out videos that people will watch. Like, the number one thing, that's why I said, like, for example, like, the first three lines are so important because it gets someone to spend time on your post. So, like, the first thing is like, are people clicking through on my post? That's a click through. How long is someone spending on my post? Uh, are they engaging in my post? Are they sharing my posts? Like, those are things you got to think about. And then the second thing, like what I think, like, consistency beats anybody in this game because you won the battle of being top of mind. And that's what marketing is, is like, marketing is staying top of mind. Um, so if you're consistent, nobody's going to remember your 42nd post or your 83rd post or your 22nd post, but they'll remember that you showed up every single day in the feed and that you gave them something special. You gave, gave them emotional, you helped them in their career or you did something. They might not remember every single post, but they remember you showed up every single day. Like you said at the beginning of this, the podcast that you know me for posting memes. The only reason you know me for posting meme is because I do it every single day. Like, if I was just posted one once every month, you would probably never know I posted memes.

Speaker A: So it was a top of mind strategy that connected me. So whenever you're ready to talk about, hey, you know, I'm doing a program or, you know, course where, you know, I'm helping people, um, with leveling up their LinkedIn game, I was like, yeah, no brainer, dude. I've been following you for a while.

Speaker B: Yeah, so that's the thing, that's the thing that people don't get is like, the game, uh, it's all goals. And I think we, I mean, we talked about this earlier, but it's all goals. Like, my goal is to get someone to know who I am, enough people to know who I am to then convert them into a podcast or newsletter reader and get more content. And then eventually, like, do, like, hang out with me on text messages or, um, eventually, like, buy, like, say if I start a company one day, they'll buy my product or something like that. But my first goal, like, but, but your goal, like some other people's goals are to show that they don't have a middle funnel. So their middle funnel is LinkedIn. So they have to show expertise in their post on LinkedIn. But they needed to. They. And that's why they do in depth post. So that's their strategy. Some other people's strategy is like, people don't know who the hell I am. So how do I get people to know who I am? I have to do things to grab attention first. Once I grab more attention now I can do more in depth posts. So like, everybody has a different goal and that's what people forget is like, some people's goals are just to keep you top of mind. Like, they're not like. And some people's goals are to be. Show you that they're an expert right now. Uh, and you just have to. Everybody has different goals and I think, like, and some people's goals are to get more clients and some people's goals are getting more news that it's. Some people's goals is to get more speaking engagement. Some people's goals is just to be known. Like it's. Everybody has different goals.

Speaker A: No, that's good. Even funnel to top of funnel, middle, bottom. Those are also good ways to think about it. Is that the way you think about it whenever you're asking your customers about goals?

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think, I think about it in a couple ways. I think about like, one, who do you like? Your career aside, your business aside? Like, if I wanted to. If you wanted to walk in a room like five years from now, like, do you want to be known as like the website guy or do you want to be known as like the m. Marketing ops person? Do you want to know. Be known as the marketing guy? Do you want to be known as like the insurance guy? Who do you want to be known for? Like, and what, uh, like what expertise are you bringing to the world? So like, when an opportunity presents themselves in the world, like, they think about you. If they think, think about. If they think about who is the best Internet per, like, website person. They think you. Like, they don't think about it. Like, and you're not in the room right now. Someone's networking for you. That's what like. So the first thing is like, who, what, what do you want to be known for? Second is like, like, what is your end goal with LinkedIn? Is it to get more clients? Is it to get more news? That is Subscribers? Is it to get more followers? Is it to get more attention? Is it to get speaking in gigs? Like, what is your, your goal on LinkedIn? Because depending on what your goal is, I would do a different approach to LinkedIn. My goal is to get more attention so people can go listen to my podcast and listen to my newsletter. That's why I do my strategy, because it works, it gets intention. But if my goal was to get clients and I didn't have a newsletter and I didn't have a podcast and I didn't have these other channels that I can push people to, I would show in depth things on LinkedIn and then use LinkedIn as a source to funnel things. Just how Chris Walker has done for a long time. Like he uses LinkedIn as his like middle of the funnel to get more clients. Um, so like, yeah, the goal is the, the important too. And then the last, the last thing is like, like, how are you? Are you like. My last thing I asked people is like, are you really like, like committed to doing this? Like, are you really like, you. Do you really like, like creating content or not? Because like, for some people, like I, as much as I say like, creating content is a great thing, it's a hard game and a lot of people don't want to do it. Like, uh, it's even like working out. Like, like some people want to go like, want to lose weight, but they don't want to like work out and eat healthy. Like you gotta like set the mindset. Like, hey, I want to go like eat in a calorie deficit and then go work out. And like, let's say I'm training for a marathon. Like you can't just go run the first day and run the marathon. You have to have the set by step consistency to do it. And if you're not willing to do that, so that's why I say like, are you even like passionate about your topic? So I get down to like the inevitable truths that they care about. So for example, like I really think that B2B social media sucks. So like my content, like that's why I like doing memes and stuff like that. To show like you can stand out. Uh, and B2B, even if you, you aren't. So I stick to a truth that I care about and that helps me create content every day because it's something that I can die on a hill and say that I think this is the truth in my industry, if you don't have that backing, it's hard to write content every single day around.

Speaker A: Just to simplify what you're saying is basically it's the why behind what you do.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah. So I would say like the first thing is like, is like who you want to be known for. Like why? Like what is something that makes you different and that you care about a lot. That you could a position that you care about that people will know you for that position. And then like, what is your, like what the goal? Like what are you trying to achieve here? Yes or yes or no? Uh, like, like are you trying to achieve a more customers? Are you trying to achieve more attention? Are you trying to follow? But I do think the problem also in social media is this what people forget is like you can say like social media is just like when you start social media and first goal is to get more customers. The reason why is like you have to get, your first goal should be like, hey, I should need to grow my audience of my ICP on this channel first. Once I grow my audience, let me figure out the next goal of, of uh, getting customers. Because if you think your only goal of social media is to, to get customers, you start doing bad behavior on transactional like social media. Exactly. So that's why people forget like first goal is to grow followers. Second goal is to like separate the goals. And that's why a lot of people B2B companies mess up too because they right. The goal is like we don't do social media because they don't get us leads. But the first goal is like, how could I like to see if you're successful in social media is do I have an audience? Do I have a follow? And the only way to know you're successful on social media when you're starting. Starting. Is, is my follower count growing and is am I getting engagement on my posts? Yes. And is the engagement coming from my icp? The uh, next thing you, next thing you can figure out after that is like, is the ICP that I am getting following me, are they becoming true fans that they will convert? So you're taking attention to intention. Attention is like you're gaining attention of yourself. Intention is like, are they willing to buy a product? Are they willing to work with you? Are you, are they willing to come to event you set up? Uh, are you, are they willing? So you take attention and then now you're moving into intention. But it takes time to convert attention to intention because that the intention part is trust. And trust comes from expertise, consistency, education, showing them that you are a thought leader.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I like the consistency in education because that was also another thing I learned from working with you was I should be posting more about website tips, website tutorials, like very specific. That is helping my audience. And that in itself would be like, oh, this is the guy who's the industry expert. This is the guy who knows who he's Talking about. And just that shift really helped me in the way I think about content creation. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I also think, like, how you frame it too. Like, I think a lot of times, like, you want to be known as the website person, but then you also need to, like, start framing it into who the buyer is of, um, the website. So you, you can't only, like, create like, website content because usually, like, the people who care about website content are the people who are other website people. And that usually isn't that your buyer?

Speaker A: A lot of times it's like tailoring it for your ICP instead of.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So like talking about it for a web developer.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's like, so like what I would think about if I was writing I have a website, like, I would start creating content that's uh, about like, uh, let's say if I'm trying to do founders. Like, this is the reason why it's so important to have a great website for your company. This is the reason why, like, you should invest in websites. Like, this is the reason why, like, having a good pricing page will help you convert. Mostly what do they care about? And you do that. Not like, make sure you Update. Convert your JavaScript to X, Y and Z. Yeah, Web developers will. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Like for B2B SaaS marketers, which is my ICP, what they care about is how do we increase demo requests for the website. All right, here are four steps to increase demo requests for your website. So it's very specific and it's exactly what they want to hear about. Compared to, here's how to optimize your website. Here's how to add SEO keywords or something around the website. Here's how to update your plugins. Like, that sounds more technical and more for developers. So that's right in line.

Speaker B: Exactly. And I think that's a lot of mistakes too, is like, a lot of people, like, they say I'm posting great content about, like, my, like, niche.

Speaker A: Like, our creators think they're posting great content.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's true too. They think I'm posting great content. They're like, I'm not growing my followers. I'm like, you probably are, but your niches is like, very small and you have raving fans in that, that, that, that. Or like, you're posting something so specific that only people in that, uh, niche will get that. Nobody else in like, the second sphere or the third sphere or someone that might care about it will. Will care. That's why, like, that's why, like, I don't really believe in funnels that much because people, how people buy it very differently. But I do believe that like, I do believe that there are people are in different stages of like, of. Of how they know about your product and like to know about websites. Like some. There are some people that need to be informed. Like websites are actually exists. Those are some people. And then there's some people who need to know like, why websites are important. And then there's people in the bottom of the funnel, um, that are about to buy that need to know like, why, like why I need to invest this for my company. But like a lot think about the bottom of the funnel and their content is just meant for like people who actually have the pain right now actually know who. What you're talking about actually know, but they don't think about the people who might care about it one day or might have a friend that cares about it or might have it, uh, or might sense. Like sometimes I read posts and be like, I'm not a event marketer, but I have an event marketer friend. And I'm going to send them because I think it's a cool post, uh,

Speaker A: about event marketing or even sometimes I'll read it. I'm like, like I didn't even know I had a problem like that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: So I got, exactly. I got to go look at, uh, what I'm doing and revisit this. It starts making me like problem aware.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And I think the only way to do that is simplify it into like the, the simplest forms. Because if you go super technical, you're just talking to that one technical person, uh, that you're, you're trying to, trying to convey messages to. Like if you do it for a broader, uh, there's always a way to take, take something super technical and make it less technical. And that just should proves that you know the, the topic very well. Like, if you could you help me,

Speaker A: you help me with that too. You're like, so how would you describe a page builder? And I'm like, um, geez, even I have to think through this. Yeah, it's.

Speaker B: That's, that's what I mean. Because like, I think like for you it comes off so easily. But like when you like dissect it in your head, then you're just like, oh, okay, this is what it does. This is the functions. This is what right it actually like. And then you go, then you think about like, oh, what like, okay, a page builder. What is the benefits of a page builder? Okay, now I know the benefits of a page builder. Now let me put that, uh, up front and say, this is the benefits. And then say, like, oh, like the way to solve this benefit. Oh, yeah, a page builder. A page builder does this, this, this

Speaker A: and this and this.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: And I'm working on it. I'm getting my wife to, like, proofread it. Be like, is this, like, broken down enough or.

Speaker B: No, that's a smart, That's a smart way to do it. Get someone who doesn't know the topic to read over. To read over. That's why, like, a lot of my content, I try make it so simple that, like, someone coming out of college could understand it. Marketing to someone who's like, uh, a vp, but really I care about people younger. That's why I don't really care if someone who's like a VP of marketing says, like, oh, that's too simple. And I'm like, yeah, it's simple to you because you're a VP of marketing. It's not simple to someone who's coming out of the career today and trying to learn. So you might not be my audience, like, okay, but like, my audience is these people who might have not known that before or might. It might have sparked something in their mind to, like, start learning that, like, that's my audience.

Speaker A: And how do you get. I mean, other than LinkedIn and seeing what's in the comments and how people are engaging, how do you nail down your audience? You know, what they like, what they like hearing? Uh, or is it all just LinkedIn signals that you see?

Speaker B: No, it's like podcasts, like, having conversations with people. It's reading replies and emails. It's common questions I get. It's going, it's going on to, like, popular marketing accounts and seeing what questions they ask. Um, it's going to like, the top Google searches and seeing, like, what are the top people? What are people asking? It's going to Quora. It's going. It's like. And it's also like, like, just listening. I think a lot of people do need to stay back and just be like, what are people talking about? What, what topics are relevant?

Speaker A: People guess. People guess a lot.

Speaker B: Exactly. And I think that's because I always say this, and this is the tip I give, but people are just, you have to consume content to create great content. You have to consume great content. And what. And you have to consume a lot of content because, like, that's why, like, a lot of people come on LinkedIn, they try to do their first post and they don't know why it works, but they've never spent time consuming other people's contents that have work and seen why it works. They just, they just post. It's like going into. It's like learning going into, like, going into your like, like day one of like, Spanish class in high school and you only speak English and then trying to go to, like, Mexico and try to speak with like, the locals. Like, they're going to be like, yeah, this is your first time speaking Spanish, like, Right, I know that. I could tell that's your first because you haven't even attempted to, like, learn our language. So why should we, like, give you the time of day, um, to talk? And that's the same thing as, like, social media. Like, if you, like, learn the platform, learn what they're doing, learn what ticks people, what works, what doesn't, the format M. That works, what doesn't work, what they care about, what they don't care about. And then that's the same thing. If you deeply learn Spanish and you talk to locals and you understand, like, the slang words they use, and they don't use this grammar in this sentence, they use the grammar in this sentence. And in Mexico they use this, and in Spain they use this, like, and you. There's a difference. And then culturally, this words mean this and this. And then you go speak. They're going to be like, oh, okay, this person took time to like, learn a language, learn our culture, learn why it works. And that's the same thing as social media. And people forget like it is. Every platform has a language. Um, right. And what work would ticks human beings works a lot of platforms. It's just how you frame it in other platforms is how you. You contextualize it on a platform. Like, the words still carry meaning. It's just how you express it on the platform and how you package it together.

Speaker A: Totally. How are we doing on time? I want to be considerate. I do have other questions, but I want to be.

Speaker B: I'm good. I'm good.

Speaker A: Okay, so why not use LinkedIn Live, um, for your podcast interviews?

Speaker B: Um, I actually just started doing LinkedIn virtual series on the market Millennials page.

Speaker A: Oh, really? Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah, now putting in the. But I haven't used them for all podcasts because I think the. It's way easier to do a podcast interview on. On Riverside, which we're talking right now, because you can edit it down, you could take it. But I also think there is strength in that. And I've been testing that. You'll see More of it on the market Millennials page next year. But I did seven events. Events this year. No, five events this year or six events this year on LinkedIn Live, and I saw some good success on it. And I think. I think the way you interview on a LinkedIn Live is very different than the way you do because you get distractions from the audience. You get. You have to, like, bring in the audience. So I think there's a time and place for. For both. And I think half, probably like a quarter of my segments next year are gonna be, uh, LinkedIn Live. And I think LinkedIn Live is a great, A great tool.

Speaker A: And you can use Riverside for that.

Speaker B: Um, no, I. Actually, I've been using Airmeat for it, and then I also sometimes use, um, Restream for it.

Speaker A: Okay. I've heard streamyard is pretty good.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I've been. It works pretty well. And I get, um. I. My thing is, like, I like. The reason why I like LinkedIn Live is not because, like, LinkedIn is the greatest platform. I just like giving content in different ways. People can consume it. And one way, like. Like, one way is like, some people like, consuming podcasts, but I know I'm missing a whole tons of people who don't listen to my podcast. And some people want video and live interaction, so I try to give that some of it. So now, like, next year I'm going to do, like, segments of, like. And also with LinkedIn Live, I think it needs to be, like, a little more structured than a podcast, because podcast, you can kind of rant on and totally talk talk.

Speaker A: I feel like you need, like, a third person to, like, handle the comment section or the chat section.

Speaker B: Exactly. So, like, it's. It's actually. And it's a production, like, it's a performance, which is different than I feel. Podcast is, like, more conversational for me. Um, so, yeah, I mean, I had. But I think LinkedIn Live is a great resource. I think. I think video is a great resource to build, like, more customer. Like, more. Not more customers, but more trust with your audience.

Speaker A: Totally. The reason why I haven't done LinkedIn Live is because I'm like, is the guest gonna come through? That's one. And the second, I'm like, all right, no technical failures or anything. And then third, the comment section is gonna blow up. I wanna make sure people get, you know, their questions answered. So you're right. It's a whole structure agenda type thing. It's full production.

Speaker B: You can. A guest can't reschedule one year when you have a, like and you have a natural balanced it to like the right.

Speaker A: What do you show up solo episode or what?

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, so like, it's very like, you have to commit to the process. But I think like, if you're gonna do it, like, I'm starting to like test ideas of doing like series based on a topic.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So like, so like next year I'm gonna do like four different series and they go people different topics and then I'm gonna bring on guests that are regarding those topics. Instead of just having like random guests guests to talk about, I'm gonna, I'm gonna structure like this. If you want to learn about X topic, you can come to this series. If you want to learn about this topic, you come to this series and then make it more of like, learn. If you want to learn. Like, let's say if I did a social media series, I'll. I'll bring a LinkedIn expert, I'll bring a Twitter expert, I'll bring a, uh, a TikTok expert and I'll like. If you're interested in learning more about LinkedIn, you can learn about LinkedIn. And then I'll package it up, uh, and make it podcast for more people to listen to and then. Yeah, I like that.

Speaker A: So I like that. I was, I wrote it down. I didn't know that you were doing LinkedIn live from the marketing millennial. So I'm going to follow that.

Speaker B: Yeah, I just started. I have event on December 14th, but like I'm. Next year I'm going to do. I also did a series about content marketing legends. I had like Ross Simmons on. I had Devin Reed on. I had uh, I had Anne Handley on. I had um, Morgan Ingram on. So like I did a series on like just how to create great content. So like that, that's like an example of a series. But I'm gonna start doing like one accord. One like six or seven part series a quarter, once a week.

Speaker A: I like that. Um, yeah, so full transparency too. Like, even before this, I'm like, wait a minute, he's on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn. Let's go LinkedIn Live. But then I, I got afraid because I was like, I'm not ready for this. I was like, I'm not ready for LinkedIn Live right now.

Speaker B: It's actually not as scary as you. It's, it scared me at first because it's very, it's very like, it's very like broadcasting to a lot of people. But I think the thing that changes with LinkedIn Live is if you just think of it still. Like, I still go in the mentality that it's a podcast, that I'm talking to the guests. I just try to, like, I just try to bring in the audience and it's actually easier because I don't see anybody. So, like, I just, I'm just looking at my guest. I don't see anybody. I just see comments flooding in. Yeah. Um, and I want to. Now that I've started doing it a couple times, I. The first thing I do is I preface that, like, hey, the first, like, 30 minutes is going to be chatting with this person and the next 15 minutes is any Q A. So, like, if we'll answer questions at the end, um, so when you're ready, we'll like, ask questions at the end. So.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool. I remember a while back I did a LinkedIn poll when polls were very popular, and I asked, hey, if I was to do a live podcast interviews, what would it be? And it Zoom, LinkedIn and all these other ones. And it surprised me that Zoom was number one. I think people just because of the pandemic, were used to Zoom. Uh, everyone started buying Zoom during the pandemic. Um, but I'm curious to know if that probably has changed yet. Just something that came to my mind. Another question that I had, but also,

Speaker B: also what people don't get is that you can, I think you, you could probably do the same thing as, like, you have. I think you can, like, take a, like a restream and do Zoom and do, um, LinkedIn live at the same time. So you can just hit both audiences at the same time if you're gonna do like a. So a lot of people forget that.

Speaker A: That's true. There's technology out there that can do that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Multiple platforms.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's how I think about. It's like, that's the only reason I, I'm starting LinkedIn Live, because I think also, like, I'm very big on, like, repurposing content. So, like, LinkedIn Live is for one audience. And then I take that LinkedIn live and make it a podcast. That's another audience. And then I take the podcast and clip it up into small clips. And now we're gonna start putting on tick tock and YouTube shorts and stuff like that. That's another audience. And then you start. And then that podcast becomes a newsletter send. So now I have a newsletter send. Um, so it's like, becomes all of it. All of it for, like, different.

Speaker A: Do you push people to the podcast specifically. Then whenever they like. If I see a short snippet on LinkedIn, do you put in the comment section? No. Okay.

Speaker B: Um, I think people inherently, if you have good content, they will, like, say, oh, I want to hear more of this. And like, they'll realize it's a podcast because we're talking like, we're on a podcast. And they'll go look for your podcast, they'll go to your profile, they'll see your podcast and then go look for it. I think inherently, like, if you have good content, people find things that you're doing. So I think, like, that's also a mistake a lot of people make too, is like, nothing. Everything doesn't have to be promotional. Like, I think, like, the reason you're doing it, the reason why you're creating content is to create value for your audience. And like, if they find it in like a Costco sampler that you sit, the short form clothes are just like Costco, little Costco samplers to get people to do the next thing for you. And that's listen to your podcast. And if they hear something interesting and they want to hear more, that's what full podcast is for.

Speaker A: Like, uh, they'll know you have a podcast. Basically, they're smart.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. You're. You're usually. So they'll follow you where you, if you have an audience, they'll follow you.

Speaker A: Yeah, especially if they're loyal listeners, too. So my other question about was, I know for your LinkedIn content it's been text only images, right. Are you going to start incorporating videos from the podcast song there?

Speaker B: Uh, that's a great question.

Speaker A: Uh, videos not like one of those top type of content that works best for LinkedIn?

Speaker B: M. No, I think it does. My. I always tell people that, like, invest in the format that you do best. And what I do best is image and text. And I think, like, video is not my strongest suit. So I admit that to myself. I think, I think I'll eventually, like, like, post podcast clips to LinkedIn. But for me, what's working on LinkedIn is text and imaging because I can get my message across better. Like. But someone like Morgan Ingram, who's very good at video, like, he doubles down on it and he does very, like, M. Chris Walker, very good at it. There's some other people that are very good at it. Like, and I, and I totally believe, like, they should invest in it because they're good in it. Um, but a lot of times, like, video is not the right format. For that person, um, I see text is not the best preference. Like, Gary Vee is very good at video and he admits up front that he is bad at text and he's bad and he has ghostwriters to do that for him. That's why he has.

Speaker A: I hate writing. That's what a lot of people don't understand. They're like, oh, your LinkedIn posts are great. I was like, yeah, but I hate doing it. I was like, I'm getting better at it. That's why I do a lot of videos. Because, because I can just talk on the spot. Boom. I don't have to think about and write it out and all that.

Speaker B: Yeah, but that's why, like, if you do videos and then you have a good writer, take this video right now, right? And take a segment and write a post for you. Then you have a post that is, uh, ready. So like, that's why it's like, it's

Speaker A: that one, two, punch. Yeah.

Speaker B: It's like do what you're best at. Like, everybody forgets, like, double down on your strengths and let other people do, like take your weaknesses on for you. My strengths are is, I would say is like images and text. So I double down. That video is not my strength. That's why, like, when I'm doing my podcast clips, it's going to be mostly my guests because my guests are very good at like being forward facing. Um, and also I just. Video is just not my format. So I just don't, I don't like it that much. And I think it's. I might in two years think it's m my format, but like, I know how to make a clip go off on video because I know what makes a great video. I just not that person who wants to be on video.

Speaker A: So that makes sense. Do you do whatever you're better at? I love it.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah. I was just curious. Now a lot of people want engagement, right? This last question and then one more. No, two more questions and I'm done. So I'll go fast. This last, this second to last. A lot of people want engagement, but what I see on their post is thoughts. Question mark. What do you guys think? Question mark. A lot of times I feel like it's forced, but maybe that's good. Maybe that helps them to get engagement. What are good ways to get people engaged? Maybe you don't ask a question. Maybe people just already know that they're going to engage with the content if the content's that good.

Speaker B: Are you engagement? You meaning commenting or engagement?

Speaker A: Commenting.

Speaker B: Okay. Um, I think, I mean I'm not anti people saying like thoughts and stuff like that because it's just like I think thoughts works. If you have a thought provoking post then you want to get someone's thoughts. You say thoughts. It's not if you say like our cheeseburgers better than like this. That's not that like it's an easy way to get engagement but it's like kind of gauge is cheeseburgers better than better than regular burgers without cheese? Uh, like. But like if you say something I don't think but I think some ways to do it is like, like ask questions that are simple that to. That are not hard for people to think about. When I like when you're asking a question, like if you have something too depth, uh, then people. It takes them a long time to respond and people don't have that much time on your feed to spend on your post to respond. So that's why Thoughts I think works. And what, what would you add works? Because it's so quick that people could just go like oh my thoughts. Okay, I'll give you my thoughts. What would you add? Okay, I'll give you my. What you would add. I think sometimes it's does you don't need that in every post though. Uh, that's what people don't get is like sometimes you're like your post like should create thought provoking thoughts because it's like or like it's so controversial or it's so inspiring that people just be like oh this is a great post or like this is nice. So like I, I resonated with this or something. Something just causes people to do that. Um, but I do think like if you like if you do want, if you have something that if you genuinely want like I think my whole thing is like, like if you Genly1 if you're going to put thoughts out there or what would you add? Like you have to like be willing to and like respond to those people. And that's why I like uh, for me like I've, I've gotten and I'll admit that I've gotten bad at responding to comments because it just gets overwhelming. I'm trying to not spend so much on social newsletter and a podcast. So but like that's why I don't want to like say what would you add too much? Because then it's like if someone's going to give me two seconds, I got to give them two seconds and then I feel terrible if I can't Give them two seconds. So like, uh, like I think you have to be genuine. Genuine when you're asking someone to give you their thoughts.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So that makes sense.

Speaker A: Last question. Any tips or advice for B2B marketers on how to level up their LinkedIn game? It can be something we talked about and maybe you want to emphasize. It could be something that maybe you wanted to talk about.

Speaker B: Um, yeah. Any tip for B2B market? I think make your content everything about your audience and nothing about, like, would you not. Not nothing, but you can. But nothing about like what you think you care about. Like make it everything that they care about and that's how you will win on social. Like, like I said earlier and Mr. B said this, like the algorithm, algorithm equals audience. Like the reason why things work is because like reason why things go viral is because the audience cares about that topic. And you might think it's a dumb post or you might think it's not that smart, or you might think, but a lot of other people think it's a good post and a lot of other people are getting thought provoking stuff out of it. So if you're doing something, make sure you are actually knowing what your audience cares about. Spend time learning what they care about. Spend time asking questions, spend time reading comments and then you'll figure out what content to create. And there's a lot of content out there to be created. And also another thing that I've learned lately that I've, I learned from someone recently and it kind of hit me a lot is that like, just because it's, that just because you need to be consistent doesn't mean like you should put out another post. Like if your post doesn't have a good like hook and it doesn't have a good like meat or it doesn't provide value, like, then it's just like negative signaling in the market. You're just showing that like you're turning some people off of you. And that's as bad as like positive signaling. Like, I mean positively is good, but like negative something. If you have too much negative signal in the market, people just stop following you and tune out. That's the same thing as like why niche works. It's like if you post about your niche and then you start posting about wild other things, that's negative signaling to your audience that you're not posting about what they care about and they tune out. So like sometimes like posting, when you post something, you have to think to yourself, like, is it adding value or is it like just some Noise I'm adding to the world just for the

Speaker A: sake of being consistent.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: That makes sense. Well, hey, Daniel, I appreciate your time and, uh, always good talking to you.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's been great. Thank you for having me. And this has been fun. And next time you need to do a LinkedIn Live Live, let's do it.

Speaker A: LinkedIn Live. I want to see it. And your post in my feed.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you'll see. December 14th, I have LinkedIn lives. You can see that I'm doing it. Even though I'm kind m of uncomfortable with LinkedIn lives, but I'm still out there.

Speaker A: Uh, hey, I know there's a lot of value from it. I know I heard it from Chris Walker and from a lot of other people that it just. It's like 10x your trust. Uh, and people get to see your character, your personality, everything like that. So I think you're going in the right direction to be real with you and your expertise.

Speaker B: Like, I think also, like, what I've known from what I've seen firsthand is like, um, when you're on video, people recognize you more in public. Like, like, your face, like, when you're not. Like, for me, like, it's funny because me and Morgan Ingram went to a conference once, and a lot of people were coming up to him and saying, oh, I know you. And that's because he does video. And they looked at me and they're like, like, oh, Mark Millennials. Oh, that's who you are. Like, because I don't go on video, so that's like, the benefit of videos. Like, people know, like, sometimes that I, I'm, I'm doing this, but they just don't, um. Like, they don't recognize me because I'm not on video as much as, like, ah, video actually works very well.

Speaker A: It's good. Yeah. Cause sometimes I would even get the people, if they look at my LinkedIn content, they'll go book a discovery call. Since we're a small business, guess who they're talking to? Me. So then when we get on there, they're like, oh, dude, I just saw your video on LinkedIn. That's why I reached out. So it's crazy because now they're like, in a Discovery call with me, and then even, uh, on AMAs, they're like, hey, do you wear the same black shirt all the time? Because that's my attire, you know, I was like, no, I wash it. I washed my shirts. That's super hilarious. But, yeah, it's me base you know, dad hat and black T shirt.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's why it's okay. It's okay to show, like, familiarize. Yeah, it's okay. But like, yeah, for me, like, I think, yeah, that's why, like, LinkedIn lives have been good for me. But I also think that, like, sometimes I don't like being recognized in public. So it's, like, good for me to, like, kind of be. That's why I started the market Millennials a little bit. So I can kind of be behind the scenes doing fun stuff. But some people love it. So that's why video is a great, great medium for that.

Speaker A: Awesome. And are you still doing, uh, that program? I call it a program. I forget what it is.

Speaker B: But the two week, um, I'm doing it this month. I, um, actually just got like a new texting platform because before it was just like hard to text, um, people on there because it was not on my phone. I had to go on my computer to text everybody. Now I have like a whole thing that I can actually, like, have a conversation with people. So.

Speaker A: So, like, you gotta insert that. You gotta insert that.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, if you want to go to marketingbesties.com, that's where it is. It's actually testing. It's actually an MVP product. So you just know it's an mvp. I want to eventually do like a coaching product where I get. Bring on a lot of other marketers to, like, be able to text other people. Like, if you want to learn content marketing, you can text us. But yeah, so it's just, it's kind of like a test run for me. But, uh, I know LinkedIn, so, like, it's a good way to, like, use my audience to test it. But it's a, it's been fun. It's fun to text people and see what they're learning and see what they trust. And text is like, way more personal.

Speaker A: It's more effective on getting a response back.

Speaker B: That's exactly, yeah. LinkedIn. LinkedIn. DMs and emails are hard for me now.

Speaker A: It's just like, so hard.

Speaker B: There's too many emails out there. And it's not because, like, I don't check my emails because, like, there's so many of them that it's like, just hard to get to so many emails and then usually a lot of 90%, 99% percent of the most spam emails, they're not like people that I need actually know, so.

Speaker A: Oh, I have a question for you. Sorry, last one. Now that I think about it, you're really good at repurposing content. Everything that I have is in a Google document. Like, is there any other way to do it? Or do you have your own, like, platform on how to repurpose content?

Speaker B: Um, no, I think, I think, like, what, the best way to repurpose content is put it out in the world, see what works, take with the winners and repurpose the winners. Like, that's the best way to repurpose content. Um, yeah, like, that's the. The problem a lot of people make with even. This is the Twitter screenshot problem.

Speaker A: People do.

Speaker B: They take screenshots and they're like, why? Oh, it's not working for me. It's because the screenshot. The only screenshots I ever post on Twitter of my screenshots are ones that have been proven to work on Twitter. Like, I don't post.

Speaker A: You're experimenting and if it succeeds, move it on.

Speaker B: Exactly. So, like, I only. It's like ads. Uh, like, you only repeat your winners until they stop working.

Speaker A: Boom. That's good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, I would never do an ad without testing.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I repeat my winners. Like, I'll post the same post 20 times in a year and people will still always get the same amount of engagement, the same amount of comments, and people will forget I posted it. Um, like, and that's what people don't get. Like, I will post the same thing 20 times. And also, like, uh, people forget that, like, as new people join your audience, they didn't hear that message. So, like, sometimes your message is for the new people who came into your audience to remind them that's what you care about. So, like, you don't have to come up with new pieces of content all the time. Like, sometimes it's just to, like, show your audience that you care about that topic again and again and again.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, well, hey, man, you're awesome. This is great. And we're definitely going to do a LinkedIn Live. I don't know when, but we're going to definitely do one.

Speaker B: Well, once you get started, let me know. Um, and we can go on.

Speaker A: For sure, man. All right, well, you have a great day. Hey, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Mastering B2B Marketing Podcast. If you've been getting value from this podcast, please leave us a five star rating on Apple Podcast in the review section. It will mean a lot to me. And lastly, make it a great day.