The Customer Journey - The LMS Lounge Live - Episode 154

Speaker A: It infuriates me, particularly within the B2B world, when you see marketing departments that are made up of basically, uh, communicators. So it's a communications department, it's not a marketing department. Welcome to the Marketing Study Lab podcast with me, Peter Sumpton, the Lego master of marketing and marketing consultant, providing you with the building blocks you need to be a successful marketer. This intro lasts about one minute, so feel free to skip forward if you've heard all this before, I seriously won't be offended. If you're new to the show, we chat to amazing people to give you practical advice you can implement right now that will make you and your marketing truly awesome. The conversations we have will lead you to the actionable marketing knowledge you've been craving. And now you've found it. So you can relax and enjoy the rest of the show. Thanks to all those that have left. A five star Apple podcast review. It's the best way to support what I'm trying to do here. If you have a burning marketing question, you can catch me on LinkedIn. I know I'm supposed to say the links are in the show notes, but let's face it, you've got better things to do than try and find those pesky show notes right now. Enough of the show intro, so let's get on with introducing our guest. On this week's show. I, uh, had the honor of chatting to Louisa Van Veesman in her LMS M Collective Facebook group. Learn, Motivate, Succeed. The link is in the show notes if you fancy joining. Um, and I would. We chatted about the customer journey, one of my favorite topics. It's so important as today's journey is sporadic and anything but its linear past has been. You may remember luisa from episode 35 of the Marketing Study Lab podcast where we chatted about how VAs virtual assistants, of which Louisa is one, can help you run your business and claim back some of your most valuable asset time. But what I chat about in this episode is the customer journey. How to map your own customer journey, the importance of knowing your touch points, and I'll be hopping on my soapbox a few times, so suz in advance, but enjoy.

Speaker B: Let's just jump straight in. Do you want to introduce yourself, Peter?

Speaker A: Yes. Okay, cool. I'm, um, um, Peter Sumpton. Uh, I've got a bit of a slide to introduce myself a little bit later on, so I won't say everything, but, uh, at the moment, I'm a marketing consultant. Been in marketing my whole life. Well, it feels like my whole life, but my whole adult life, should I say. Um, gift and a curse, really, because I went down the academic route before getting into the actual implementation of it, which meant I've got a wonderful foundational knowledge of marketing. But then I wasn't practicing it, but. Which no one told you until actually getting the real world, that you kind of need to do this stuff to be of relevance unless you want to be a professor. Yeah, um, yeah. So that was a steep learning curve. And that just isn't in marketing. That's in, I think, every single, um, profession. But I quit my job back in 2019, um, to do marketing consultancy full time simply because, and this is my soapbox moment, but simply because there's so many charlatan marketers out there and that isn't their fault. It's, uh, purely because they've been blinded by the whole communication industry in terms of if you are a communicator, if you deal with communications channels, and we'll get into that a little bit later on, you are a marketer. Yes, you are, but you're only a small piece of marketing.

Speaker B: No, and I completely understand what you're saying as well about the fact of having the theory and, but not having the practical experience as well, because I know, like, I studied tourism management at uni long time ago and it was effectively a business degree, just that it was geared towards tourism. But you did like management, leadership, marketing, sale, you know, you covered all the basis of business. Um, but it wasn't until kind of later on in life that actually, like, and even now, like, stuff comes back to me about the management and the leadership side that I studied and went into great detail about. But it's not until you've got practical experience that you know how to link it and what. Yeah, things work in reality. So it's all very well saying this is what you do. Life's very different.

Speaker A: Humans ruin everything, don't they? It's as simple as that. If humans weren't involved, it would be, you know, so theoretical and it would work. So I do a lot with the Charleston Institute of Marketing and I do a lot of tutoring and workshops and apprenticeships as well in marketing. And it's almost a case of you teach this theory, but you try and get across that it's not the be all and end all. It's fundamental to be a marketer, similar to an accountant, to a plumber, to an electrician. You're not going to let them in your house unless they are vetted and qualified and it's similar to you shouldn't let anybody in your marketing department unless they are fully qualified to be in that department. Um, but it's difficult to get across that hole because these are the models and theories. But don't think you have to use these rigid terms and these structures to get on in life. They are foundational. Everything else is moving parts. So whatever is written down on paper, the fundamentals never change. But industries change, comms change, people change, culture changes, and those are the things that people aren't geared up for. Like you were saying that the human part of it.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And how do you feel about the people that. And you know, we haven't even got into like all of this yet, but how do you feel about the people that have kind of gone onto social media, haven't studied marketing at all, but then start giving a lot of marketing advice?

Speaker A: I mean it, it's hard to argue with some of them because they are successful. Which, which is fantastic, which is great. And I'm not here preaching the fact that you need that founder foundational knowledge to be successful. You need that foundational knowledge to have a good career. Far from it. Each career journey is different and that takes different paths. Uh, but the thing I would say is what you'll find is that a lot of those are uh, uh, short term, um, tactical elements. And don't get me wrong, that there are a lot of people that I know and, and uh, I, I really, really admire that haven't got that qualification or background. Um, but the thing is they've studied, they've understood and they've studied and they get it. And I think they're few and far between. And the unfortunate thing is people seeing that think, well, I don't need a qualification, I don't need to study that because I can just do this. The one thing I would say is that's great, but what about the long term? What happens when that platform goes away or, or what happens when your tactic no longer works? What's your long term strategy? And that's kind of what I always come back to. What's the strategic direction and the long term approach to things? Uh, because if you haven't got that, you're always scratching round and it's always onto the next one and it feels like a struggle. Whereas if you've got that strategic direction then uh, it makes a lot of sense and life becomes a lot easier. So what do I think of those people? Well, if you're going to make a success out of it and you Enjoy. And you love it. Can't say anything, you know. Fantastic. Happy days. If you, if, if you were looking for a career in marketing, I would fundamentally say that you need that foundational knowledge, be it on a three, four day course. If you just want the basics to know, understand. But yeah, it's, it infuriates me particularly within the B2B world when you see marketing departments that are made up of basically, uh, communicators. So it's a communications department, it's not a marketing department.

Speaker B: No, no, I know that. Well, I've witnessed that and I know who this is because I can see it from my phone and Annette says hello. So. Okay, so let's jump in to why we need to understand a customer journey. What does, what does the word customer journey even mean?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I don't know whether you want me to share the slides now or.

Speaker B: Oops, I'm trying to add you. Right, I might have to.

Speaker A: I think I'm already there.

Speaker B: There it is.

Speaker A: There you go. Superb. Fantastic. Right, so this is the part where I won't be able to see anybody's comments or your good self, unfortunately. Fantastic. Yes. This is what I want to talk to you about today. And I wanted to put this together because there's a lot of detail that goes into this and we can do it the simplistic way or we could do it the massively detailed way. And this is a halfway house really. And hopefully you'll find some, um, uh, relevance in this and you'll take a few things away. So let's just start with that's me. Hello. Don't need a picture of me. So let's change that to that. Um, it's far more fun and exciting, isn't it? Resonates with everybody. Like I said, uh, at the start, I'm a marketing consultant, so I'm not going to read anything out there. Needless, uh, to say, um, I know my stuff and my, uh, love and passion in life is leading companies down a marketing LED approach for long term strategic gain and advantage. So you asked me where, what is a customer journey? Uh, where does it sit and all that kind of stuff. Well, if we understand and know a customer journey, I'll come on to what exactly that is in a minute. But if we know and understand a customer journey, then we're not doing this, um, and we're not guessing what we're doing. We're not guessing who our clients are, we're not guessing how they, what they know, what they understand. And the journeys they take to ultimately hit some kind of conversion. The reason I say conversion is because that doesn't have to be monetary. It can be, it can be anything. So again, where does this sit? So your customer journey really sits round about after you know and understand your target audience. So how do we do that? Um, and believe me, this isn't all theory based by the way, I'm not going to bore you. Isn't a lecture. So, so where does it sit? Well, we've got all our segments there and uh, we look to target the segment that we see is the most viable offering to us. Who can we serve the best? So we've targeted them. Then we look for a position within our marketplace that we can master, uh, and have a differential advantage to our competitors. Uh, as you can see there, boom, we're there and we're going to serve those customers. And kind of this is where the customer journey comes in. This is our client. What journey is he going to take with us? To a certain end point. So if I skip onto the next slide, this will explain why we need a customer journey and what a customer journey is. Now hopefully people know this little chapter. I think that's actually life size by the way. But this is, this is um, Frodo and he took a journey and hopefully people can remember that journey. Now he went from the Shire to Mordor.

Speaker B: Anyone that doesn't know who that is, he is from Lord of the Rings.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I'm not that much of a geek but there's a few things that I like in life and if I mentioned them all, probably I'd come across as a geek. So.

Speaker B: And can I just say hello to Ginny who says hello Louisa and Peter and Alison says hi and by all means, if you do have questions as we're going through them, please do pop them in the comments and I can ask them as and when it's appropriate.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, please do because I'll chat about this all day long.

Speaker B: Um, I know Peter said that he's like yeah, half an hour and then he sent me the list and he's like okay, maybe a bit longer.

Speaker A: The list took me half an hour.

Speaker B: Alison said, haha, never watched Lord of the Rings.

Speaker A: Well you don't have to. All you need to know that uh, is his photo came from uh, Hobbiton in the shire and essentially he had to take this ring to a mountain and throw it in some fire. That's all you need to know. Now if he could have, he would have walked straight there and gone Home, back home from sandwiches. Happy days. But if you've ever watched it or you haven't, things happen along the way that get in the way of him just taking that straight line to this mountain and he has to deviate, he has to do other things. But at the end of the day he gets there and he gets back. The point being that that journey took turns and those diversions and roadblocks and things that we as consumers and our own clients will come up against. And it's for us to know and understand that. Know and understand where they're trying to get to and what we can offer them, but also understanding the pathway that they're going to take to that end. Conversion point, uh, communicating with us, purchasing from us, whatever that might may be. But it's hugely disruptive. So we have to guide our audience. We have to hold their hand and say, you go here, you go here, you go here. Um, but there's very, there's a lot of different pathways they can take. So we can put a lot of technology in there. It doesn't mean people are going to listen to it. Um, and it doesn't even mean that technology is right. So it's important that we know and understand our client first before we start to look at any channels, any form of communication we start. We try to know and understand what their thoughts and feelings are at various points in their journey so we can help them understand why we are the best solution to that problem that makes sense. Cool. Right? Okay. So that is why we need to know and understand our customer journey. So let's have a look at some of the key elements of a customer journey and there will be some practical application coming up. I know it's, it seems like a long winded way to get there, but, but there is. Okay, so these are the key journey elements or customer journey elements. So first of all, it's the stages. So let's look at what stages people go through. It doesn't matter whether it's a small purchase, a considered purchase, a huge purchase, it doesn't matter. We go through these stages regardless.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Then it's the steps. So what steps? This is where the thoughts, the feelings come into it. Where are they going, what are they thinking when they see these certain things that not just us, but uh, our competitors are communicating with them. Then the touch points, the various touch points, hugely important. And this is where it starts to become, um, we start to apply and very much application based. So it's actionable. And the final thing, look at that, a marketer has spoken for 15 minutes and it's only now we're talking about developing content.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: Imagine. So, yeah, it's all about content. But we can't do that content piece until we know our customers. We know the stages, the steps and the touch points, and hopefully that will become relevant as we talk through this. So what I'd like to do now, unless there's any questions, what I'd like to do now is talk through each four of these elements.

Speaker B: Go for it. There are no questions as, um, yet.

Speaker A: That's what we like to hear. Uh, all crystal clear. Okay, so think about your last purchase. That can be absolutely anything. To give you some examples, it could be milk, could be a car, could be chocolates. Why not? It's Friday. Uh, it could even be a house. Um, why not? It's Friday and anyone that's, that's completing a house on a Friday, good luck. Because if it goes on to Saturday, you're pretty much screwed. Like, happened to us. Um, freaking nightmare. But it doesn't matter. Um, so can I ask you, can you remember the last thing you purchased?

Speaker B: The last thing that I purchased was yesterday and it was some vegetables.

Speaker A: Okay, excellent. So why did you need those vegetables?

Speaker B: Because I had no food.

Speaker A: Okay, great. So there was a problem there. You had no food, so I'm guessing you went to a supermarket.

Speaker B: I went to the local Sainsbury's. Like the Mini.

Speaker A: Okay, cool. And why did you. Was there, was there any other area, any other supermarkets you could have gone to or were considering going to?

Speaker B: Um, it were. I chose there because I knew that I would go food shopping properly after today. After our chat today.

Speaker A: Brilliant. Cool. So, you know, look what you've done there. Uh, you've got a problem and you've searched for a solution or albeit the majority of this will be in your mind because it's a small purchase and it's quite a quick purchase. So you've, you've searched for that solution to that problem. You probably very quickly compiled a list of options. Well, I'm going to do a big shop later on, so I don't really need to go to that there. So I'll just go to the local. So that's your consider. You're compiling a list of options and then you've decided, yep, it's the local because I'm doing a big shop. Then I'm guessing you went there and actually purchased the vegetables.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker A: Yep. Excellent. And then because it was Sainsbury's, do you own a club card or anything like that. Yeah, fantastic. So you scan that club card. So you've converted because you purchased the vegetables. And then the connection part is the post conversion, which is buying vegetables. They've got your data, you've earned some points. They know you want vegetables on a Thursday, so therefore you'll probably be targeted at some point. Or you'll get some kind of email saying, we do loads of edge or 25 points for veg, something like that.

Speaker B: Well, they send you a message on your phone and say if you tap the screen now and rev it, you can win more points on your next round.

Speaker A: Exactly. There you go. It's that connection. And that can happen instantly or it can happen, uh, a long time in the future dependent on whether it's a considered purchase or not. So, for example, if you buy a car, the chances are in every year or every three years, if it's a new car, you'll get some kind of communication saying, you know, you should renew your car right now.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and that's the connection part. But funnily enough, a lot of businesses don't do that, um, which is a bit mad. Okay, the next part is the steps part. So what we do here, this is all about getting in the minds of our consumers, knowing and understanding the steps that they take. Um, so their thoughts, their feelings, the processes they go to go through. And this example here is somebody looking for a shirt, right? And look at all the, the steps that they go through just to buy a shirt, you know, so that. So the problem is they need a shirt that they've ruined the previous one, and then they find a specific shirt. So they look for either the cheapest option or the fastest delivery. Do they want to pick it up at a local store? Those types of things they go through to purchase it. And then they get notifications when it's ready to pick up, um, new shirts or discounts, whatever it might be. Understanding those steps is fundamental because we're getting into the mindset of our customer that. So that is, like, kind of crucial that we do that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. So the next part of it is the touch points. Now, this is where it starts to. Starts to be actionable. This is the bit that. Where you need to sit down after you've thought about the steps and go, right, okay, my customers are taking these steps, and you can even do those steps yourselves, you know, walk through them. If I was in, say, if I was at work for Sainsbury's, what would I be doing? Well, I'd be sat at home going, I want veg Right, okay. What am I going to do? Am I going to look online? Am I going to use my phone? Am I going to walk to the store? What are m. My thoughts and feelings right now? Well, I want to cook to all that kind of stuff. You know, get into that, that, that mode. So what we do, a big thing

Speaker B: that people don't actually think about is all the touch points as you say, and people don't even know the term.

Speaker A: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, cool. So what we mean by a touch point is any, any point that you come into contact with a, ah, business. Um, or it could be a person if you like, but that's your touch point. So be it right now. Um, be it through ads online, be it through uh, sponsored ads on, on social, be it outdoor advertising, cinema advertising, tv, radio, any touch point, branded material, any touch point, sorry, anything like that is a touch point.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's getting or knowing and understanding the value of each one. So what people get wrong? Um, again good marketer, bad marketer, uh, soapbox moment. What people get wrong is they think that I'm going to produce this piece of content, it's going to break the world, it's going to lead to loads of sales and I'm going to be a multi millionaire. Uh, yeah, bit of a stretch that. But the point being is that it's not just that one touch point if that's the 1%, it's the multiple touch points that add up, that build up the, that know like and trust with your clients that we need to focus on. So you produce one piece of comms. Fantastic. Brilliant. That's one touch point. Use it on different platforms. It could be multiple touch points, but let's say it's one touch point. Google say that you need roughly 9 to 12 touch points or interactions with a consumer before they are ready to consider a purchase from you. 9 to 12. Now it's a lot but. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So again if we go back to Sainsbury's, if you think of all those touch points, right, so you could have looked at an app on your phone, you could have got something through the post. You um, have walked past Sainsbury's local before. You know that's just three straight away on one day.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: So it's a lot but it's knowing and understanding where our clients are, ie the stage they're at and the steps they take, which means we can understand what touchpoints are required. Let's take a look at uh, this, this is what touchpoints could look like, and remember we said a customer journey is quite sporadic. So we could start off with a Google Ad and then they could go straight to our website, or they could, um, see a Google Ad and then do a bit more searching. Uh, they could download an app straight off a Google Ad. There's loads of things. There's no right or wrong direction. But it's important we try to map out to the best of our ability what we feel our customer journey is. So then we can start to communicate at the right points, at these touch points. Why is this important? Well, simply because at each stage, at each touch point, at each step, we need to consider the thoughts, the feelings and where people are. So, for example, at the exploratory stage, that will be a completely different set of communications to the conversion stage. Um, it might be on the same, uh, same entity, it might be on the same topics, but it will be a different tone of voice. It'll be, it'll be slightly different. So at the explore stage, you want people to start to trust you, where at the conversion stage you want people to buy from you. So it's a different tone of voice, it's a different way of coming across. And here are some examples, um, that highlight the fact that a customer journey can be complex, it can be simplified, or if you're ikea, it can be a bit crazy. Cuckoo. Um, I love that example because it's just typical ikea, isn't it? Typical.

Speaker B: Jeannie just said she needs this map for some of her clients.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, um, if Jenny, if you hold the line, you can, you can have it, um, and I'll tell you where to get it from. But if you just Google search, customer journey map, go to the images, there'll be loads for inspiration to show you how you set it out. And there's no right or wrong answer with how you set it out. As long as, you know, you look at Starbucks compared to, um. What was this one for? I can't remember now. The one on the left. Oh, Rail Europe. Completely different, you know, simplified and detailed.

Speaker B: And I think as well, sometimes it comes down to. So, for example, rel Europe, they've probably got more of an engineering mindset. Yeah, yeah, because of the engineering mindset, it's almost like the fishbone kind of, uh. What's the word? Fishbone? Structure, like, you know, binding. Fuck shop. I can't even speak now. You know what I mean? Whereas, like, somewhere like Ikea, it represents a similar format to how their stores are laid out.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, um, it's you know, that connection, uh, shows the integration that IKEA have got, not just externally but internally as well, to create a customer journey map that is intrinsically them. And intrinsically. Actually it almost looks like the layout of one of their stores.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, it's just typical Ikea and you know, that is the epitome of knowing and understanding who you are and you as a brand.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, we come to the content creation part. Wow, look at that. So you look at the time and effort we put into the stages, the steps, the touch points to get to this stage. Not going to go through all this, but basically what we're saying here is that what you should be doing for each stage, think of the topics that you can cover, think of the keywords that you need to include in each of these stages and then start to list the topics that you want to write about that are important. And then these can be images, they can be copy, they can be video, they can be audio dependent on those touch points. Hugely important. Uh, it could be all of them and we'll come on to repurposing content and developing all this in a second. Uh, but it's hugely important to do all those other parts before you get to content because if you just start with the content then where are you going to start? What do you know what people want to hear from? So if you take the shirt, um, example then if you look on the left hand side. So we've got 20, uh, 20 fashion. Well old school now. And that 2020 fashion is probably joggers and a pajama top, isn't it? Let's um, but it's things like how to iron a man's shirt in three easy steps. Uh, the latest fashion trends with Mr. Trendy Man. You know, it's things like that that are engaging that people will probably pick up on and get a feeling for whether your brand is a bit of them and that connection is there or not. Um, whereas if we skip right to conversion, well you're talking about a purchasing page and user experience. Is there any cross selling we can do there? So you know, have you thought about ties? Ah, ah. Have you got trousers to go with that shirt? Those types of things. Think about email con confirmations and what you're going to put in that. Is there any cross selling or upselling or um, uh, connection elements that we can do post purchase? So loads and loads of different content. But if you're a one man band or a small company, that's great. How the hell do we do all this haven't got the time. Uh, before we went live we were just saying how, um, time's pretty precious, weren't we?

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And it's trying to figure it all out. Especially when you have got to think about so many different aspects.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, um, I don't know if anyone has heard of this chap called Gary Vaynerchuk. Gary V. You either love him, hate him or haven't heard of him.

Speaker B: Yeah, I've heard of him.

Speaker A: Uh, but one thing he does right is he calls out a lot of bullshit. But one thing that I feel he does right is he highlights the fact that people kind of get content wrong. They create one thing for one entity, use it once and leave it. And kind of what he describes is if you create this big pillar content, a bit like we're doing right now. So let's take what we've done and let's take this recording of this big pillar piece of content. Well, we can then repurpose this, we can chop it up into sections of the customer journey. We could do sound bites, we could do bits where we're both laughing to show that we're personable, bit of the human side. Then we can distribute it across platforms, across our touch points. Um, that's what he's saying, use pillar content, chop it up, use it as micro content articles, for example. Off the back of this we could both write what we learn. The three, uh, top three takeaways. A detailed in depth customer journey for both our companies. You know, there's loads of stuff where this could lead. Yeah, um, if you want to put a bit of theory behind that, uh, this is taken from um, a chap called Dave Chaffee, Smart Insights website. And he says, dependent on whether you want to focus on the emotional or the rationale, um, whether it's for the awareness stage, explore and consider or the purchase stage, convert. He has a whole host of different types of content that you should be creating. So for example, if you were looking to get that emotional connection and you were more of an entertainment type of person, that's how you engage. Well, think about things that might go viral or quizzes or competitions, for example. Um, so, um, you know, there's about 20 things on there that you could focus on. Yeah, so, so content shouldn't be difficult to think of themes and topics for. It's harder uh, to produce it. But the topics and themes should be quite easy to come across.

Speaker B: And I think that's it. As you say, you know, it's so easy to Take one piece of content and to break it down into so many different ways and remembering that different people absorb information in different ways. So, you know, what might appeal to one person doesn't appeal to someone else. And so it's important to kind of repurpose that content to ensure you're not losing anyone on the journey.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, 100%. And the downside to all of this is everyone's customer journey nowadays is drastically different.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, which is great because consumers are in control. They'll buy when they want, what they want, how they want, and if you don't factor that in, then you'll lose customer, then they'll go to a competitor. Um, so what we're saying here is going back right to the start, know and understand your audience before you even touch this. Yeah, okay.

Speaker B: As well, you know, the way that obviously the world has massively changed over the past year has, of course impacted and changed so many ways in which we purchase and make decisions. And, you know, for some people, it's going to be making a quick, snap decision without actually doing the research and thinking about, you know, what decision they want to make. Because actually they just want to spend money to feel good about themselves. Yeah, there's all these different points, but, uh, Annette just said, uh, this is my sticking point for my business. How do you mean, Annette? Do you mean in terms of constantly thinking about the right ways to produce your content?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Please, please do. Um, yes. So in terms of if it is content, I've got a couple of things that can really help you out there, because this bit at the bottom is really all about. You've got the content, what do you do with it, you know, and there's always ways to distribute content. There's always ways to do that quicker or more effectively or distribute more of it over more platforms. Um, there's a lot of platforms on there, as you can see. There's about 10. You know, you don't have to be on all of them. This is why it's important to know and understand your audience. Uh, you know, Master 1, test them, by all means, but it should be. I, uh, think it's always 80, 20, isn't it? It's the 8020 rule on anything. 80% of your content put it on platforms, you know, work, 20%, test others.

Speaker B: Exactly. And, you know, like, for me, I'm, uh, not massively consistent on Instagram, but I still use it and I build those relationships and I nurture them kind of like, over time, whereas most of my time is over on LinkedIn.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, uh, absolutely. So you know, you know your clients or you're mastering LinkedIn as a platform even for this. You know, you tried the uh, what was it, the LinkedIn events page. That's it, that's it. LinkedIn events. I'd never really seen it to that detail before, so bravo. Uh, but yeah, things like that, testing new technology to see. And it doesn't mean you have to stick with it, it just means we're trying it to see if it gets any traction within your um, within your customer base.

Speaker B: Exactly. And as we were just saying before we went live, Clubhouse is another really good example of this. Of course, you know, it created that FOMO and for anyone that hasn't heard of Clubhouse, it's an audio based only platform. Um, I have deliberately wanted to join it. It's for Apple users only. Um, but Peter is on there and figuring it out and some people loving it, some people aren't. But it's a time intensive platform, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I went this morning for an hour and that was just as a guest speaker. So that, that takes up an hour of your day. If you're not the guest speaker, if you're the host, then you've got to factor in getting people to that platform and getting them to sign up and stay there and be engaged and then understanding who the speakers are and all that kind of stuff. So it's not a light platform. And if, if you were considering building something on there, uh, I would just block out April and just be on there every single day. I think that is the only way. Yeah, I seriously do. I know a couple of people that have hundreds of thousands of followers on, on there and that is simply because of the time they have spent on that platform.

Speaker B: Are they actually seeing anything coming from it?

Speaker A: Yeah, apparently so. Yeah, yeah. From, from what they say, uh, that they've. And this is the thing about Clubhouse, like I'm not close enough to give huge comment on it. From what I can see, if you're a name, if you're known or you're willing to give that time to it to become known, then it can be profitable and engaging for you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, but it's, it's almost that, uh, how much do I want to. And if you've got a team then that's probably possible. If you're a one man band, it can be hugely difficult.

Speaker B: No, that totally makes sense. But then that's the same I guess with any platform anyway, is the fact that it depends on how much time, you know, the amount of times I he HEAR People say LinkedIn doesn't work for me. And they've been on it like once a week, once every other week, once a month. Uh, and that drifts down and they don't engage or, you know, they've got like a hundred connections and you know you're gonna struggle.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Annette's come back. Say yes, definitely. Maybe I overcomplicate it, but finding useful content can be challenging and then also keeping true to my brand. So, so Annette creates. God, don't shoot me now. Beautiful. Like really cool. Um, I don't know the official term, like chocolate bouquets.

Speaker A: Okay, that's cool. I like that.

Speaker B: Um, uh, Annette, you're better at selling yourself than I. I'm trying to think of the pictures that I've seen. Um, but yeah, so she's a product based business. Um, and personally, I think in some ways product based businesses have a greater advantage for finding content than service based because you can share, uh, the pictures you can share, like the behind the scenes you can show like how you make it all together and how you do all that. But at the same time I can understand why it can also seem a bit overwhelming because you feel like you're constantly posting about your products.

Speaker A: Yeah, you say constantly. It's only constantly to that person that's posting them.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And that's, that's the thing we need to remember as well that you don't, everything doesn't have to be original. You know, if you, if you look at people that you see time and time again on platforms, you can almost guarantee that at some point you'll see either a rehash of, uh, the same post or it'll just be the same post.

Speaker B: Yeah, totally.

Speaker A: And that's because of the touch points. That's because, you know, you're not seeing everything that happens on social platforms.

Speaker B: Exactly. I see it from, on LinkedIn. You know, even Jonas Ferian, I see stuff that I remember him sharing previously and I see it from other content creators as well. And I think, I know I've come to that. And I'm looking, I can't find my comment. I'm thinking, yeah, it's because it's repurposed content.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. But it's still, I can't remember the phrase, but it's something, if you're going to teach or something like that, it's tell them what you're going to say, say it and then say it again.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: And that's what we need to remember it's the other, the other thing we need to remember. It's harsh but true. Nobody cares until they do care, you know, so don't, don't feel, you know. And if they don't care, they're not your audience.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And Alison has said, um, she tries to vary the content. Probably not enough products. Again, Alison's a product based business. Um, she's a franchisees and franchisee and she sells dog products, dog food of varying types. And um, Annette has come back to say luxury. I said she do it better than me. Luxury, personalized chocolate bouquets and gifts. And however business is bespoke cake toppers.

Speaker A: Oh, uh, wow. Lovely. Fantastic. I mean there's, there's loads there that's, that's utterly craziness that you're, you're not, um, finding content. But I want to, I want to come back on, on to that. Uh, because I think that there's. Again, this isn't my thinking. I found this out a couple of days ago and it might not work, but let's try it live and have a laugh if it doesn't work. But I'll come back to that in a second. Um, so that's what your customer journey map should look like in my eyes. Um, you've got the stage at the top so you can remember. Write down the steps that your customers are taking. The emotions, the feelings, the thoughts. Why are they doing it? Map out the touch points that are going to help you or you feel that your clients or you know, your clients. Get your husband, your wife, your brother, your sister, your daughter, your son, whoever is roughly your target audience to do this. You know, say to them, right, you're interested in buying a cake topper. Um, Meryl, uh, and I'm just gonna watch you, you know, go and just, just buy a cake topper and watch them. See what they do. Do they pick up their phone, do they go to a laptop, do they flick through the yellow pages, all of this stuff's important. Um, and watch them right up until the point of purchase and then say, whoa, no thank you, you can have it for free because you did me a service there. Um, you don't have to do that, but it's nice, isn't it?

Speaker B: And I think that going through that process, I witnessed it in businesses I've been involved with when I kind of managed their processes. Um, and you need to almost like my view is that pretend, uh, someone like an alien's just landed or you've been knocked over by a bed and Someone else needs to come in and take over from you and understand, like, what your process is and does it actually work? So if someone new came into your business and, um, you've brought them in to help you, and you're going, okay, this is like the customer journey. What if they come back to go? What about that? You know, sometimes doing that market research, um, you actually ask, can be so invaluable in making sure it actually does work.

Speaker A: The one other thing as well is think about the friction within your journey, the friction at each touch point. So what is stopping somebody clicking that link? What is stopping somebody pressing that button? And if we reduce friction from a customer journey, they are more likely to get to that conversion stage a lot quicker because we're removing all that friction. When I do workshops, um, when I do mentoring or whatever I do for a group of people, I put a jar of cookies on the table, and I close that jar, and then I put exactly the same cookies on a plate. Uh, and then I leave it until the afternoon. And they've pretty much all gone by then. And it's always, always, always the ones on the plates that go first. Why? Why is that? It's simply because there's a glass in between the cookie and you picking up that cookie, which is friction. I'd much rather just reach over and grab it from the plate. Not bothered about opening the jar. That means more effort. There's more friction. If you think about it, technically, those cookies have been sat there for God knows how long. I'd rather have one from the jar, but we're lazy, so we need to think about that.

Speaker B: And I guess also it's partly down to the fact that people don't want to seem rude, because obviously those cookies have been taken out, because that would probably be my fault. Is that from the job? But, uh, because it's in the jar, obviously. You want me to eat the other ones first.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And again, it's that different perception.

Speaker A: Yeah. And knowing and trying to know and understand your customer's perception as well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And again, that's why branding's so important. And that's a completely other different topic. But that's why your brand's so important, because you want to know and understand your. What your client's perception is of you or your brand. And if you can get that right, then you stand a better chance of succeeding.

Speaker B: No, that makes sense. Ginny's just said she's got to go. She'll catch up on recording later.

Speaker A: Cool. Thank you. So, okay, final thing. Um, before Q and a bit of magic, if you can. Um, and this will help you out, by the way. Uh, if you can get your phone, uh, preferably an iPhone, I'm not going to get you to go on Clubhouse, by the way. Um, if you can get your iPhone and just put it on camera. Okay. And once you put it on camera, if you can get the whole screen in view, that'd be great. Now I can't see you, so I'm not quite sure whether you're doing it or not. Um, see me doing it. Okay, fantastic. Right, great. So after three, I want you to take a photo. Okay. Just take a photo of this screen. Right, okay. Actually, I'll count down from three. I said that wrong.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Okay, Ready?

Speaker B: Now? I'm not taking it at the right time.

Speaker A: Um, three, two, one. Okay, great. It's better than a shitty business card. You, uh, got my details? Hopefully if you've got an iPhone. M. That should bring up a link to that. That'll bring up a link to that customer journey planning template. Um, you can check me out on LinkedIn as well. That's my preferred platform. That's where me and Louisa are. Ah, Connected and connect all the time. We hardly speak about LinkedIn. Um, it's true. Yeah. So if you want that, there's the URL at the bottom, but that QR code. And who uses QR codes nowadays anyway? But that QR code will take you directly to the customer journey planning tool that we've just been through.

Speaker B: That's so cool.

Speaker A: Cool.

Speaker B: That's really cool.

Speaker A: And that's the end of the slides.

Speaker B: That's been awesome. If anyone has any questions that's watching. Um,

Speaker A: While we wait for questions, um, let me see if I said I'd come back to the. The whole chocolates and feel free to send me any chocolates you might be getting rid of if I can. I'm not quite sure if this is going to work or not. It's asking me to. I think my free trial is run out. One second, let me see if I can do this. Um, so. Okay, one second. Because this. There's a few. There's a few things that I think will help. Uh, and most of the people listening have probably heard of these before anyway. Um, but let me see if. Um. Right. Okay. Excellent. Right. Could you share my screen again?

Speaker B: Yeah, I sure can. Oops. Oops. Done.

Speaker A: Um, okay. Uh, so let me. Um. Sorry, I have to share my screen again because I was on the wrong. I was on the wrong thing, so.

Speaker B: Know what? You're doing now.

Speaker A: Right. Okay. Try now. Great. Fantastic.

Speaker B: So I was on this today. Mhm.

Speaker A: It's the second today. It's the second time I've um, I've mentioned this today, which is a bit mad. Uh, but I wanted to show you moz.com but this does a similar thing. Um, you get three free searches a day. But if you were wondering, it's really good tool. Same with Moz. But there's, there's bound to be others out there that do this. But if you were, uh, in the chocolate flower business, for example.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Then what this does is. Yeah. It gives you keywords and I don't think you'll be surprised about any of these that uh, are coming up. But at the bottom it gives you content ideas. So what this does is it gives you the URL to content around chocolate flowers.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, Right. Okay. I shouldn't have hovered over. Um, just ignore that one. Wow. Um, didn't expect that. But on, on the, on the right hand side, you, you've got the popularity of these things.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So if we can see this one, the top one, Springtime flowers in chocolate. So straight away I'd be looking at taking photos of, of chocolate in, in a bunch of daffodils or something to do with cooking in the springtime or cooking outdoors or things like that, or making chocolate outdoors or making flour, whatever it might be. Um, so you can use these to look at different things or different topics that other people are writing about. I think you can even click on them. Yep. So you could go through to this and then look at what this lady is writing about.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And make it better. Look at the key topics and write that. But make it better. Uh, the second one. So that was ubersuggest. The second one is answer, um, the public answer.

Speaker B: The public's fab, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So again. Oh, eg, chocolate again. I've got no idea how this is going to turn out.

Speaker B: That's one.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know that was a bit of a. Yeah, don't do these things live or always have them pre. Um, so it gives you a visual. But if you click on data. Okay. Are chocolate flowers edible? Bit weird. But if that's a question people are asking, answer it because people are searching for it. Um, how to make edible chocolate flowers that show people how you're making them. Which flowers are edible. So do that connection. You know how, how to make a bouquet of edible flowers and chocolate flowers. Uh, and, and the list goes on and on and on. And you can do as many searches on there as you, you like, I think on Answer the Public like a couple.

Speaker B: Is it like a couple a day or something like that? And then, oh okay. You kind of just have to wait until the next day. But you get so much content out of it in like um, one day.

Speaker A: Yeah. And then you get to see this hunk of a man. I know, I know. Um, so yeah, so that's if you were looking for a few tips or hints just to get you going, use that, do that. Use the free tools as much as you possibly can to start to build up content and say you did that. If you get three searches on ubersuggest, three searches on uh, Moz, three searches on Answer the Public, that's nine things. You do that for a whole week, you've probably got 5, 10, 12 months worth of content right there.

Speaker B: Exactly. And, and I think like the other thing that people don't think about is questionnaires. Like people do actually complete them. So I'm m working on a collaboration at the moment with someone and um, we did one to find out just about what product, business, small, uh, business, product based businesses, um, do in terms of their social media, what do they struggle with and stuff like that. And you know, we've said that everyone's going to be put into a draw to kind of win an hour with me and Claire and we've got like 30 odd responses. Which actually isn't that bad because we didn't push it that much. Like we shared it. But we haven't actively pushed it day in, day out, we've just shared it on different groups and people that we know. And um, I'm quite happy with that. And you know I've done um, back in December because I'm involved with my business a bit. I did market research calls, you know, I put a post up on LinkedIn, I was like, hey, would anyone mind, you know, give me 20 minutes of their time. And so many people said yes, you know, do want to help you. So yeah, uh, uh, if you are struggling with knowing what to do for your content, ask, you know, create questionnaire or ask people if they're happy to jump on a call to say, okay, what decision process do you go through to make, you know, the choice of a gift or like in the next case or in um, Alison's case, why do you choose to buy dog food from us? You know, what's that decision process? What do you go through? You know, as you say, you could walk past Sainsbury's all the time. So let's go in there. What is it that makes you actually want to buy from us? How did you find out about us and all that? But people are often reluctant to do the market research.

Speaker A: Yeah. Because it takes time. And it's not implement implementing. It doesn't feel like you're moving forward. But that's the whole point, is knowing and understanding your audience. And if you don't do that, it's so worth taking the time to do that. Um, unless you go down this path again, going back to the whole communications department, not marketing department, you go down this path of communicating, communicating, communicating. And it doesn't get you anywhere and you feel deflated and you feel like it's a waste of time and that the only thing is you've either got the wrong platform or the wrong message or you haven't started with, what problem am I solving? You can answer that. Develop your content around that problem.

Speaker B: And I think also, you know, the trap that I've seen some businesses fall into is when it comes to social media, they'll choose platforms based on what they like to wear. Uh, their ideal audience is, you know, and you really, it's really important to actually consider, where do your customers hang out? I know it's a key thing to say, but where do they hang out? Because it's pointless being on, um, I don't know, Twitter, if they're never going to be there.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's so true. And again, test, test them. Test these things. Have a look at your competitors and where they are. And that's not to say, please don't take that as a, um, marker to say that they're on this, this and this. We need to be on that. No, no, not at all. But have a look to see what they're doing, what content they're creating and maybe take that onto a different platform.

Speaker B: No, exactly. Alison says she's been watching on her phone whilst out delivering. Going to rewatch at home. But really interesting. Thank you.

Speaker A: Oh, brilliant.

Speaker B: This makes so much sense.

Speaker A: Yay. That's good.

Speaker B: I'm assuming there are no questions, but. But I will also add your contact nave done. Your very, uh, sophisticated QR code, um, new technology, uh, underneath as well. When we end, want to connect with you, then they know where to connect to you. Do you have a Facebook page as well? Or you just mainly LinkedIn.

Speaker A: So mainly LinkedIn. I've got a Facebook group marketing study lab. But that is. It seems to be very much more about the theory behind it or the qualification element than anything. Um, I'M looking to change a lot up at the moment. So you might see my communications and my comms a little bit sporadic at this moment in time, um, after everything I've just said. But that is the truth. I'm in a, uh, transitional period and I'm trying not to communicate too much, uh, simply because it's going to be mixed messages if I do.

Speaker B: No, I know that feeling all too well.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for that half an hour, which is more like 53 minutes.

Speaker A: Yeah. You kept asking questions.

Speaker B: Sorry. Isn't that the best way?

Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Absolutely. No, it's all good. Yeah, it was, it was beneficial. Could always throw it in half an hour. But with the way we did it, I think hopefully has added a lot of value.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I think that people get a lot of benefit out of it. So thank you so much for giving up your time for today. Really appreciate it. And, um, as I say, I will add your information in below once this ends. So thank you and thanks for everyone for watching today.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining us today on Marketing Study Lab. It really means the world that you're listening to this out there and hopefully I've provided you some value. If you're looking to know more about what Marketing Study Lab does and is about, go to marketingstudylab.co.uk or get in touch with me personally, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, or feel free to email me at. Ah, Peterarketingstudylab. Uh.co.uk. happy marketing.