Ep. #123 - Can Legacy Businesses Still Win Today? (w/ Abhishek Pai from Bharath Group)

Speaker A: Welcome to the Marketing Mantra Podcast brought to you by 99signals.com. A place to find top notch content on a wide range of marketing topics including SEO, social media, marketing, content marketing, blogging and more. Take your blog to the next level and achieve massive traffic growth by learning top blogging strategies discussed in the Marketing Mantra Podcast. And now, here is your host, Sandeep Mallya.

Speaker B: Hey everyone. Welcome to a new episode of Marketing Mantra. This is your Host, Sandeep Mallya from 99signals.com in this episode, I'll be speaking with someone who sits at a fascinating crossroads where a 95 year old family legacy meets the realities of modern marketing and business reinvention. My guest is Abhishek Pai, Managing Partner at Bharat Group and the great grandson of the visionary founder, Mr. Manjunath Pai. If you've grown up in coastal Karnataka, the Bharat name is practically part of the landscape. What started in 1930 has today grown into a group that spans everything from consumer goods and logistics to real estate, education and even entertainment. But what makes this conversation interesting isn't just the scale of the group. It's Abhishek's unique journey within it. He's someone who didn't simply inherit a role. He studied abroad, worked across industries, learned the ropes of project financing and innovation, and even spent time understanding how SMEs around the world secure funding for technology transfers. In other words, he brings an insider's heritage and an outsider's perspective at the same time. And that's exactly the energy he brings to Bharat Group today. A mix of respect for legacy and a curiosity for what the business can become in the next 50 years. In this episode, we explore all of it. How a legacy business defines itself in 2025. How marketing inside a 95 year old organization has evolved from the old school word of mouth era to today's digital first environment. What it was like for him growing up in a business family, which parts of the group have been the hardest to modernize, how Tier 2 and Tier 3 markets respond to marketing differently. And yes, we even get into the fun stuff, misconceptions people have about him, the wise business label and and what bold moves he would make if he had unlimited resources. And once we hit those topics, things got even more interesting. The conversation loosened up, the stories got sharper and we ended up covering way more ground than I expected. It's insightful, it's fun, and I think you're going to take away a lot, whether you're in a family business or just curious about how heritage brands survive the chaos of modern marketing. With that context set, let's dive in. Hey Abhishek, thank you so much for joining, uh, us on the Marketing Mantra podcast. Delighted to have you here.

Speaker C: Thank you so much Sandeep. Thank you for having me.

Speaker B: Great. Abhishek. For listeners who may not be familiar with Bharat Group, um, how would you describe the legacy philosophy and the values that built your company?

Speaker C: Well, frankly speaking, the group is currently in its 95th year of operations. And when it comes to philosophy and legacy, I need to give you a little bit of background as to how we sort of got the ball rolling in 1930. So my great grandfather started this business, uh, he started it from scratch with absolutely no help, um, no money, with absolutely no support from anyone. He was a teenager. In today's day and age, you, you know, think of a 17 year old starting a business from the ground up, um, with absolutely no, no how knowledge, education or support. It seems very impossible and relatively improbable as well, or it just feels like a gigantic leap. But somehow he managed to, you know, sort of identify that the life he was lead wasn't for him and that he was destined for greater things. And that sort of motivated him to creating one of the very first, I would say, businesses in this industry of tobacco, especially manually manufactured tobacco, which is, as you know, the layman calls a bd, for example. He got the ball rolling with that and the idea was to cater to an audience that was looking for, uh, let's say a pastime per se. He didn't want to get into other things as such because he felt there was a demand for uh, a cheaper alternative to cigarettes which a lot of Indians and locals couldn't afford at the time. Saw the British, uh, with their cigarettes, he saw a lot of Indians that weren't being able to purchase such products. So he decided that why not cater to a, ah, certain, you know, sect of the demographic, uh, by providing them with a more economic option. So why. The reason I, I, you know, talk about this history is because of, you asked me what our company's philosophy is. That's what our philosophy has always been, catering to an economic option but also simultaneously providing, you know, the utmost quality that we can so necessarily when we talk about a bd, there is a certain social stigma attached to it. Um, you know, a certain sort of economic group or demographic of people or persons, you know, are the kind of people that adopt this particular, ah, product or a product like this. And to some extent it may be True. But you know, at the end of the day, it is an indigenous home grown product that is completely native to India and India only. And um, you know, I'm not here trying to advocate for smoking or tobacco or anything, but it is a, uh, product in which I feel our country should take more pride in simply because the employment that it gives completely unskilled workers. So we're talking homemakers, housewives and villages. Rather than sitting at home and doing nothing all day, they help us with our production, they roll BD's and you know, they make some money on the side. They can help, you know, sustain their families. They can add another sort of funnel of income. And it, uh, just helps to see so many of our rulers. You know, like I said, we've been in operation for 95 years. In the last 30, 40 years, we see all our rollers from then. Their kids are now coming into the limelight. They are all doctors, engineers, they're studying abroad. I mean, I don't think that would have been possible with just, you know, maybe one income coming into that household. So we do feel that, um, the PD industry has catered to a lot of different things in terms of economic growth, social stability, uh, and also just generally, uh, uplifting a lot of individuals that maybe never thought they could reach certain positions in life. And till date, you know, a lot of these people call us up and they thank us and they owe us everything that they've achieved and that they've been able to do in the last couple of decades. And it all starts and ends with the bds. So my great grandfather, he wanted to cater to two things. One is of course a gap in the market, as any entrepreneur would. And second was just giving pure employment, uplifting his uh, area, his state's economic sort of, uh, standing. Right. So that's how we started off. And his philosophy, his ethos has carried on for the last 95 years to me, which is, and I'm currently in the fourth generation of this business and even I wholeheartedly uphold these values. I mean now we have diversified, as you may know or may not know, into FMCG specific. We do CTC Black tea. Right. So even in, in, um, in my tea, which I spearhead specifically, I live by one unofficial mission statement, which is providing a branded product at an unbranded price. Just because it's a, it's a nice looking package, it's high quality, doesn't mean it has to be a thousand, two thousand rupees.

Speaker B: Expensive, you know.

Speaker C: Right, right, yeah, it doesn't have to be expensive. Exactly. It can be economical, it can be sustainable. It can just make sense for a household. I mean, it's tea, right? It will run out one day. I, uh, mean, I don't expect someone to go out and pay exorbitant prices every time they run out of tea. Right? But at the same time, I don't want to compromise, uh, on the quality I give them. So, yes, I may take a hit in my books, I may take a hit on my margin, but I don't want to waver from my ideology, which is a, uh, sort of evolution of what our entire company's ethos has been for the last four decades. Four generations. Sorry.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So that is, that is what, uh, we are about. And you know, of course, simultaneously, having started with the BD and tobacco industry in the last 95 years, we have, of course, um, diversified heavily into several other industries, right? From, you know, real estate to development to entertainment, automobiles, retail. So that's that. I have to credit my uncles and my great uncle for that, and my father as well. But now, since I have been part of the business, it's been a couple of years now, maybe around five, I would say. And I have taken this, uh, sort of chance to capitalize on my existing distribution network, which exceeds, you know, across India, and uh, to basically, you know, start selling and start, uh, pushing things that any and every household would sort of acquire. So, and of course, the, the obvious answer here is fmcg. So that's where we are currently Sandeep.

Speaker B: So, great, great answer. And, uh, there are a couple of things that I, uh, picked on. Um, first thing is branded product for unbranded price. I think that is brilliant. I think that is, uh, that is a sort of dilemma that most founders, when they are launching a product face, especially in the FMCG segment, because they don't want to compromise on the quality of the product and also the packaging. But the becomes like a key issue, right? I mean, there are so many products that I find on Swiggy which have amazing pricing, but they're overpriced because the packaging looks good. You'll. You assume that it's expensive, right? And what you're doing there with branded product for unbranded pricing, I think that's something that, uh, needs to be studied because, uh, you should probably never compromise on how you package your product.

Speaker C: I'm sorry to cut you off because it's actually quite, uh, interesting that you brought this up because when we were coming up with our entire brand identity, right, we were really toying around with the idea of the package hitting you in the, like hitting your eyes as soon as you see it. So for example, when we started out in terms of, when it came to the package designing phase of the product in our early days, what I did was the first thing. I just got a bunch of packets from our target markets, right. And I laid them out on the conference table and I had about 50 packets. And uh, I just saw, you know, a sea of reds, dull greens, very standardized, simple packaging, barely any sort of pictorial, um, representations of anything on the packet itself. In, I would say maybe around 70% of the package just had one massive sort of font of the brand's name and a small sort of logo of the company. And that's about it. Right, right. So that's when I realized that, by the way. So just to be very clear, these are, these were our potential competitors that their package that we got a hold of. So in terms of the pricing that we had determined for our product. So when I saw these packets, I honestly like, as a consumer I felt like just because it's a cheap product, does it mean it has to look un premium as well? So then we came up with a design that looked a little too good. And there comes in the psychological aspect where the Indian layman always considers an uh, expensive looking product or packaging expensive, even though it may not be. So this is a psychological thing that we, you know, sort of focus grouped and worked out and. And yeah, you're right, absolutely what you said, it wasn't working. You know, we got in a couple of people, we showed them different packaging, we showed them our first sort of drafts of our packag. They didn't respond to them at all. Even though I, I thought, you know, they were stellar designs, you know, absolutely gorgeous packing, uh, packaging and packets. It didn't work out. So then we went back to the drawing board. We came up with a sort of, I would say a minimalistic version of that which sort of retains a better aesthetic than any competitor in the market, but at the same time doesn't look too flashy or you know, intimidate the potential consumer that is looking to buy tea. So we toned it down a bit and when we did that, that's when it started sort of clicking and that's when we had another focus group come in. We did the entire activity again and I would say maybe 20 out of 20, like 18, 17, 18 of them chose our packets over the others.

Speaker B: This is a study on psychological hooks, right? And uh, what you said is very distinct to the Indian consumer market. And we, we buy with emotions first and then we rationalize it. So let's say you spot something like this on a shelf, you assume that it's expensive without even picking it up and seeing the price. So uh, that's a very important study that needs to happen. Second thing, Abhishek was um, you know, you just said Your business is 95 years old and uh, I believe your great grandfather started this business and he identified a need in the market. I want to know how he identified that need. Was it based on intuition or something that market research at that time compelled him to do?

Speaker C: So frankly speaking, I don't think, um, I think it was based on what he observed and witnessed around him. Uh, like I said, um, there was, cigarettes were very much existent at that point in time. And so was uh, self rolling tobacco that the Britishers introduced because we're talking about pre independence 1930. So uh, cigarettes are very much in the market. And of course even back then they were considerably more expensive than whatever the alternative was then. And bds, yes, did exist. I, we're not the oldest company in the world, uh, you know, BD company, but uh, we are one of the first ones. But BDS did already exist. Now whether he was aware of that or not beforehand, I'm not too sure. But I know for a fact that my great grandfather didn't invent the bd.

Speaker B: You know, you know what Interesting fact, sorry to interject. Interesting fact. When I went to the BD Wikipedia page, it's the Bharat bd, uh, first bd, uh, design that's up there. I mean, I don't know if you noticed it when you go to the Wikipedia page.

Speaker C: I have, I have, I have, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that's just a little bit of a, uh, you know, sort of like I'm not sure why that's why that's us, but uh, I'm happy it is. I mean, you know, uh, at least someone you know out there recognizes uh, our longevity in this game. But frankly speaking, yeah, I think he just identified the gap because Indians wanted a cheaper smoke. There was a gap for that and you know, cigarettes were out of the budget. So his first job was he used to be, uh, you know, he's a company. His father, his father was a cook for a catering business. So he would go to, you know, functions, weddings, he would accompany his dad. His uh, father was very cut and clear that he would also follow in his footsteps and become a chef or a cook. For these large gatherings and functions. And I don't think that sat too well with him. And I'm sure that, uh, a big part of that must have been him seeing, you know, a lot of his father's colleagues sitting around during break times, probably smoking bidis. He started off on the 30th of July, uh, with 30 rupees in his pocket. And it was 1930. So that is the reason where this number 30 comes from. So in those days, you know, I have to give it to him somehow or the other, he managed to create a brand out of nowhere. He basically realized the importance and the value of pictorial branding and basically getting this number and our logo out there to be instantaneously recognizable and synonymous with quality. So that is something that I feel that he perfected and mastered. And this is. We're talking about someone that never had a marketing class or course in his life. Right. You either have it or you don't. Right. I, I'm a true believer that marketing cannot be taught in schools. You cannot do a marketing degree and then come out on top and, you know, absolutely sell a brand to everyone and anyone.

Speaker B: And we are talking about the British Raj here. We are talking about 19, uh, oh, five. Right. Uh, sorry. Uh, I'm such a millen that every time I think about 95 years back, I go back to 1905. So, yeah, it's 1930, but still British Raj. And, uh, yeah, I mean, there would have been so many restrictions to deal with. Right. And, uh, it would have probably been worse than the license Raj that we had. So I can imagine. I'm sure, I'm sure. Right. There were so many restrictions and, uh, obstacles on his way. So it, it was a very risky move.

Speaker C: But then, you know, it's as they say, when you have nothing to lose, I, uh, mean, you might as well risk it. All right, so that's one thing, you know, his bravery, his candor, his drive at that age. I believe he was about 17 years old when he started off, you know, and cycling up the Agumbe Ghats. I don't know if you've been on these ghats, but they are very steep even to this date.

Speaker B: Exactly. I don't prefer driving on those ghats exactly.

Speaker C: Like nobody does imagine we don't prefer driving on them. This man was cycling up and down and he would go village to village, selling these BD's by hand, marketing it himself, like basically what we call modern day line sales. So this is something that he pioneered without any knowledge, experience it just felt right to him and he did it. And thanks to him, now this is where we're at. I, I do have to give him all the credit, of course, for spearheading and starting us out. But then I also have to talk about my great uncle, uh, Mr. B. Ganpatbhai who, you know, took us to the next level basically. Unfortunately, my grandfather and my grandfather's younger brother passed away at very young ages. Um, so the entire responsibility of the business fell onto my great uncle. He was, he was the guy that ran the show. Yeah, basically till my uncles and dad came of age, you know, until they finished their education and secondary education, he was uh, he was the gentleman that basically put us into the next league. So. And then after that, of course, you know, once the third gen came in, they diversified heavily. Forward integrated, backward integrated. So we have everything under one roof, right? From the printing of our labels to our uh, own logistics, to our transport, to warehousing. So everything is under one roof. We don't outsource anything, you know, except for maybe the, the tiny thread that gets wrapped around the bd, you know. So yeah, so that's, that's, that was something that they did. They basically got control. They wanted full control of A to Z, which I believe is very important because then, you know, when you get external vendors involved, see, of course for anyone starting out, that is, that is the uh, go to scenario, you know. But uh, when you're an established player and you're dependent on, let's say one major vendor, and anything may happen tomorrow, right, Like a Black swan event, such as Covid, for example, or even let's say something happens in their vendor's personal or professional life, and if you're banking on him, then where does your supply come from? And then you're scurrying around trying to meet your deliverables, finding someone else who can do better or you know, who can match your sort of demand, but you know, it doesn't happen overnight. It's not that easy. And then there's the whole negotiation aspect, pricing this, that and the other, you know, so it's a nightmare. So you'd rather sort of, again, you know, take that leap and sort of take everything under your own roof. I also believe that that should only be done only once you're 100 sure you'll be able to cater, um, you know, to certain sort of uh, needs, uh, of the market and you shouldn't bite off too much than you can chew beforehand. So that is something I truly believe. I Feel guys nowadays, like they sort of make contingencies for solutions that. For problems that don't even exist. You know what I mean?

Speaker B: True.

Speaker C: I think that's, that's a big, that's uh, a big thing. Startups and businesses in today's, uh.

Speaker B: Yeah, product market fit is the big question. I mean without having a product market fit, uh, many times they're like premature launches or even what you see happening with AI, the bubble is just building up and it's just, you know, there's, there's so much tension right now that it may burst anytime and it will correct.

Speaker C: You see? You see guys.

Speaker B: Yeah, correct.

Speaker C: You see guys like legendary guys like Dr. Michael Burry and all their big shots. Yeah, the big shot. Yeah, exactly. He's, he, I mean, come on, he predicted one of the biggest shots in the history of uh, the, you know, capitalistic world. And now he's doing the same thing with AI. So if a guy like that, with such caliber and very, very strong quantitative analysis and you know, if he's doing something like that, then it's, it's worth sort of considering. Right.

Speaker B: The only thing about Michael Burry is I, um, don't know if you know his recent takes. He's one of the few people who uh, defended Sam Bankman fried from ftx. So yeah, there was a book written on that and uh, I think Michael Berry wrote that book where he goes on a very unhinged sort of a defense on sbf. And I found that to be a little off putting because having read the Big Shot and having watched the movie, you would expect this guy to be like, uh, you know, Nostradamus when it comes to predictions. But this is one prediction.

Speaker C: Did you find that to be a little tone deaf?

Speaker B: Oh, exactly. I mean he was, it was like SPF had personally paid him, uh, to basically be his PR when it comes to this book. And the book was also not well received. So it's like a, it's like a defense of sbf. And uh, you know, why, why what he did was very altruistic rather than uh, uh, you know, being a scamster. So anyway, we just wanted to segue to your uh, experience Abhishek. So I just wanted to know, you know, you, you were born in a legacy business family. So did you always imagine joining the group or, you know, was there a circumstance that uh, pulled you into this company?

Speaker C: Um, I always had an affinity for business. You know, I just like the concept of um, creating something of value, if I can be honest, you know, and that doesn't necessarily mean value to me or monetary value. It just means, like, just creating something. You know, even today I see the design of my new packet for a new SKU that we've launched, and it brings me more joy than anything. Simple things like that, you know, you're just like. You see a brand name on Amazon, you see your product selling on Swiggy. It just makes you. It just gives you this, like, satisfaction that I can't describe. And I feel that it's your mind. From all the years that I was growing up and studying and, you know, at university, that itch is being scratched now that it is what drives me. Another reason is because, you know, my. The generation that have preceded me for so long have done such a good job and, um, you know, not just maintaining, but growing and, you know, expanding and taking the business to a whole new level. So I, it would be wrong of me to not reciprocate that and try to, uh, sustain my legacy and my family's legacy for as long as possible till it's out of my hands. So, yes, I did. I did know that I would always come back to this, uh, uh, nobody pushed me towards it. I always was very, very much sort of involved with my family and family, um, sort of around them or my entire childhood. But then I went off to boarding school and every time I would come back home for my vacations, I would also be, you know, in and around office. I would come hang out with my father, sit in his cabin, you know, um, hang out with my uncle, just be around the office, you know, for four or five hours in a day, go back home, not doing anything really, just taking it all in, absorbing. You know, I was very young, and so since then, you know, I've been seeing this place, I've been growing up around it, you know, and we don't have just a business dynamic in our family, Sandeep. So we also have a very personal sort of relationship. And we are also, um, you know, we. We do a lot of activities, you know, family activities together. We have. We do a lot of pujas. We have very religious, you know, we have a ancestral home of Karkala where we go, we visit together, we go to our temple there. So, you know, I've always been very entangled with, uh, my business, family, uh, and the company for as long as I can remember. Right. And, uh. So, yeah, so I always knew I would end up here, which is why I chose to stay away in my formative years as much as possible. Because I Knew that the end game is here. Right. So I was, I left Mangalore and my home when I was in the fourth standard. Yeah. So and then I was in Bangalore for about 2, 3 years at boarding school. Then I went to Dehradun to you know, for about seven years. And then I finally did my undergrad in the uk and then I even did a master's in Scotland. So I finally, after finishing all of that and then I, in fact, you know, I've worked a year at a company in Bangalore also.

Speaker B: Yeah, your list mentions that. Right. I think it's a VC firm if I'm not wrong.

Speaker C: Yeah, yes, correct. So it was actually based out of Rome, but it uh, was during Peak Covet. So I was working from home but my hours were you know, European hours. So I would start work at like 11:00am, maybe 12:00pm and that's perfect. About 1:00am yeah, yeah. It's actually quite ideal if I'm being honest. And you know, I was very young then so it made sense also. But um, yeah, having done all that from 4th standard till about 2021, 2022 when I finally came back then, you know, and uh, that's when things started rolling for me here when I got deeper in the business. But anyway, the first full year I just, you know, sort of took learning the ropes. You know, it took me almost a year understanding everything about the core business and then some of obviously the uh, uh, other businesses as well. Uh, but uh, in the second year is then when we started doing the theoretical sort of research into FMCG and formulation of blends.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's something that I wanted to ask. And uh, I uh, was just about to segue to that because you know, uh, we already spoke about bd, that's the origin story of uh, Bharat Group. But um, like all legacy businesses, you also evolved and there are a lot of new verticals that you launched. So just wanted to know how you are personally involved in driving and managing these different verticals.

Speaker C: So frankly speaking, uh, I try to get involved with a lot of them. But um, now that this FMCG businesses about two years into operations, uh, it's frankly picking up. You know, I can feel the, the momentum now, you know, month on M month growth, um, you know, more sort of orders rolling in, dispatches. So now my focus is very, very sort of uh, segregated and extremely, you know, sort of uh, singular towards just the FMCG side of it as of now. But back before when this was still, you know, in its early days, I was very much Involved with the BD aspect, especially the production side and not so much with marketing because as you know, tobacco and alcohol in India, uh, are technically non marketable goods. Right? So we have surrogate market, so there's not much we can do. And you know, being a sin product, uh, it does sort of sell itself, you know.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: So it's more of a pull factor than a push when it comes to these.

Speaker B: That's something that I wanted to ask. I mean you, you like you're either considered a wise product or a sin product and that carries a lot of weight, right? Do you think that is a constra, a uh, responsibility that you embrace or simply a misunderstood label?

Speaker C: Look, Sadeep, I'll be honest. You know, I mean anything that you overdo kills you, right? Anything that do out of proportion will affect you, will harm you. I mean we are human, we are extremely, I mean at least our internal organs are very fragile. Maybe not our minds as much, but even a lot of sugar will kill you, even a lot of food will kill you. A lot of alcohol will kill you, a lot of tobacco will kill you. It's about how you control it and how you consume it. Look this, no one wants to hear this, but at the end of the day we aren't sitting here forcing anyone to smoke, right? Like I said, we can't even market our products. We just simply exist. Right? And of course, yes, we create this product. It's entirely, you know, ours. Yes, we understand that. But again, it's the pull factor, right? We aren't pushing it at all. The demand comes from the market. The demand comes from the distributors, the wholesalers, the retailers. We cater to that demand. It's as simple as that, that if we want, someone else will. The only difference is that we have an edge over most because we've been around for so long. I would say relative first mover advantage for all these years. And apart from that, we, like I said to you earlier as well, we do focus a lot on quality and craftsmanship and execution. So you know, you, you have a lot of BD brands in the market. You know, we're not the only one. There are so many. There are a lot of players that come in from West Bengal, you know, that, uh, uh, even offer you similar products for much, much cheaper. You know that it's hard to compete with them, of course, but at the same time you do a side by side test of our uh, product versus theirs and you'll instantly know, even as a non smoker that you know, this is a Subpar product. M. Right. So, uh, just a little, you know, I don't know if you can include this or not, but just a small, uh, story, you know, for the first time I joined the company, you know, so I'm a smoker, right?

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: So yeah, I smoke, okay. And I have been for at least the last eight years. I'm a cigarette smoker, right. I used to be. At least when I joined the company, you know, I was, uh. It was one of the first time that I tried a bd and frankly speaking, I liked it so much I quit cigarettes. And I'm not trying to say one is better than the other or whatever, but you can fill seven BDS with the amount of sick tobacco one cigarette has. So your smoking intake when it comes to PD is, you know, is not. Is one seventh of what it would be if you were smoking a cigarette. Okay? So I just felt this is a, uh, sort of, you know, uh, a quicker smoke and you know, so I'm not taking that much nicotine, tar and carbon monoxide than I. I would be if I was smoking a cigarette. And what I did was I wanted to do a small social experiment just for, you know, for fun. So I have a couple of friends and we went out one weekend and I carried my BDS with me rather than cigarettes, you know, So I asked my friends to try these out. And of course it was met with a lot of, you know, uh, ambiguity and. Yeah, like resistance and you know, they were like, you know, what is this? You know, what are you making us do? And said, just try it. And then, you know, if you don't like it, you, you can, you don't have to smoke it. Just take a puff, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And they're all smokers. You know, I wasn't forcing any non smoker to smoke, to be very clear.

Speaker B: I think it's, it's the, it's the. I think it's more the image rather than the taste or the feel of it. Right. People think. I mean, you said you target lower demographic, right?

Speaker C: So, so it's, it's, it's both the image as well as the experience that they have had in the past. So like all these guys went to college before, right? They tried some local that was selling in, you know, the pawn shop right outside their campus or whatever, and they all end up coughing or, you know, like having a headache or, you know, some, some bad experience or the other. And so they just basically assumed that all bds are like this. So when they finally smoked mine, they Were shocked. You should have seen the facial expressions change, you know, and till date. This is five years ago, by the way. Till date, they asked me for bds. Just by the way, Sandeep, till D.

Speaker B: Are your BDS available in Indanagar? I can just go grab a pack.

Speaker C: Unfortunately, no, no, unfortun. Unfortunately, we have no Bangalore market as such. Okay. So that's another thing, you know. No, that's another thing that I would actually like to tell you. A huge part of our marketing sort of, uh, tactic or, uh, approach is that we do not prefer to operate in metropolitan cities. Yeah. We prefer to, um, sort of build our markets and maintain our markets in tier two and below. Because, frankly speaking, number one is, um.

Speaker B: No. Is this just for your. Is this just for your BD brands or all your brands? All your.

Speaker C: Now I'm back to the bds now. Now I'm back to the bd. So I'm talking only specifically about the bd. So, yeah, so we choose to, you know, do tier two and below. And which is why our distribution, uh, network is so, um, you know, interesting because it goes to an extent that you could not even believe to the deep rural areas of this country that most people don't even know exist in today's world. You know, so, uh, a lot of products, a lot of big players, a lot of national, international players don't have the kind of reach that we do simply because of the depths we have gone to when it comes to our market.

Speaker B: And this is the edge legacy businesses have, right? Over, let's say, new entrants in the market.

Speaker C: Right? So, for example, you know, it's funny you say that because, for example, uh, we have distributors that have been working with us for three generations. You know, so my great uncle would work with his grandfather. My father has worked with his father. Now I'm working with the son. Those are the kind of relationships that go far and beyond business. You know, like when we. When we go to Indore, for example, they receive us with such warmth. You know, we have a meal at their home, we stay with them. It's like family. It's like an extended family. So not once have we felt, you know, there are business partners, you know, so that goes both ways. So I feel these kind of relationships that only time can, you know, create them and, of course, trust. Uh, but that comes with time. Again. Again. And, you know, these are things that are tough for any new entrant or new business, a new company coming into play, uh, unless it's a stellar idea that's completely disruptive for them when they come in. Um, this is where I feel they fall behind the distribution aspect of it because nowadays, you know, there are so many products, so many alternatives, so many options across all price points, margins, sectors, whatever you have, have you. And uh, distributors are honestly comfortable these days, in my experience. You know, they are happy with what they have. They're getting their margin. They don't want to tack on new brands, they don't want to push and put in that extra effort. I can't speak for all of them, but I'm speaking from my experience at least, you know.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: That was a big, big, big factor, you know, these experiences that I had in what led us to now start directly selling our tea products, at least in this Dakshin Kannada region. So now that we, when we decided to do that, you know, that was uh, something that we weren't used to because, you know, we've always operated on the day distribution system, the distribution model. So when we finally implemented the direct selling sort of model, it just showed us that we, we can have so much more control over our product. And at the same time we can also play around a little bit of the margin because we save that middleman margin. Right. So we can offer far more sort of promotional activities, schemes, what have you. You know, basically go all out in terms of marketing expenditure, uh, maybe even have a vehicle, you know, so that, so we, we focus on things like that. Another, um, it, when, when it comes to marketing, I trul than spending 5, 10 lakhs on a hoarding or a billboard or something that, you know, probably someone will glance at and not even recall. I'd rather put that exact same amount into salesman incentives. That is, that is how, that is what I, that is at least how I work, you know. And I honestly feel like in today's short span, sort of social environment, like social atmosphere, uh, you know, with your reels and tik toks and yay and that. And this, um, ad.

Speaker B: Ads, um, it's actually quite traditional advertising.

Speaker C: Yeah. And tradition. So I think traditional advertising is a little outdated. And you know, that's why you see the go to tactic these days is you attach a big Hollywood name, I mean Bollywood name or something like that, and that's how you grab everyone's attention or you stream your ads during a big event like the IPL or something. But you know, again, you're, you're spending, you know, through your nose. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And again, another thing I live by is if, if you're spending x amount you know, on marketing, on a certain marketing tactic or a certain marketing activity, you need to get at least 3x back in revenue minimum. So that is, if, if it, if that's not, if you think you're not going to get that, that num. That sort of level of sales for doing this specific marketing activity, then my suggestion is don't do it. You know,

Speaker B: have you seen any Influencer Media kit? And in some, in some cases they are even more exorbitant than um, uh, you know, having a uh, Bollywood celebrity or uh, anyone.

Speaker C: Absolutely. But you know, I, I, you know, yeah, it is funny in terms of when you think about it like that, but I'm not joking. These, some of these influencers, you know, they have such wide reach now, such a wide reach now that um, it's shocking to even me. M. But I mean, I guess that's what, you know, that's what, that's the

Speaker B: market we live in and that's where we should also pivot towards. But honestly, uh, for them to see, they may do great content, but let's say you're following an influencer, you are actually following them for organic content, not promotional content. And your audience can basically smell a promotion in the first five seconds itself. So there are people who do it. Well, like Danish said, does a brilliant job when it comes to promotions because he's also weaving in the meme culture into.

Speaker C: Absolutely, yes. Yeah. So he's like, you know, he's a comedian. Right. Uh, he's quite a funny guy and I even, I find him pretty funny. And when you do something like that. A unique take. Yeah, yeah. I mean, sure. Uh, when you, when you do that, a unique take on marketing a product where the, you know, the viewer at that point in time doesn't even feel like he's watching an ad. That is truly disruptive in terms of modern day marketing, in my opinion. And now I don't know who pioneered that or what, you know, how it came up, but it's just a fantastic way to get your point across and also at the same time sell yourself himself. So he's, he's basically, you know, sort of hitting two birds with one stone. You know, when he does that, he's growing his own sort of rep as a comedian. At the same time he's being savvy and at the third thing he's also marketing, you know, the whatever product.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I um, mean he's like, he's like Bharat Group. I mean he, he has diversified himself. You'll also find him in IPL. He's also the brand ambassador of RCB as Mr. M. Nags. He's also on Crickbuzz. He has so many things.

Speaker C: Things.

Speaker B: Uh, Abhishek, we've already touched upon this, but, um, I have a very interesting question for you because you also come from a marketing background and, uh, you pretty much handle marketing at, um, Bharat Group. So I want to know how marketing was for Bharat Group 30 years ago and how it is now and, uh, how has it shifted? We already touched upon it. But, uh, if you can just elaborate because you've been in business for so long and you've seen different trends. Trends and uh, different things that used to work for you in the past that no longer work. So how has that shift happened, uh, uh, you know, in your marketing approach?

Speaker C: Well, of course, you know, back in the day, this was a, uh, uh, a product that, you know, I'm, um, talking about the BDS now. Again, it was a marketable product where we were legally allowed to, you know, have, uh, all your sort of marketing activities take place. So, uh, having said that, uh, now with the government that, you know, after they came in with all these restrictions to try to. To sort of discourage sin goods, you know, so like alcohol and tobacco, it changed the entire paradigm of how we market. Right Overnight we had a marketing budget that was just collecting dust, you know, because we had nowhere to put it, uh, apart from that. It, um. The sort of, uh, exposure that we would, uh, you know, get because of our brand branding, our logos being out there, uh, certain events and marketing activities that we would do in, um, you know, our markets and all that, that completely ceased to exist overnight. So when that happened, it obviously did affect, um, us a lot in the sense that we weren't being able to feel like a holistic brand. You know what I mean? Just someone, some. A company with the product. But of course, you know, going back to the whole sin good aspect, the product did have demand. It's not like we stopped marketing and people forgot about us overnight. Uh, in most cases, in most industries, I would say, honestly 95% of industries and businesses out of sight is out of mind. A competitor comes in, he takes your, you know, market share and you're left in the dust. But in this scenario, you know, the entire industry was in the same boat, you know, so whoever had the edge at that point in time in. Or whoever had, um, you know, more of a market share in that point of time or that specific market, they obviously benefited the most, you know, so. So Yeah, I mean we have seen a lot of change of course in terms of how our marketing has evolved. But uh, I would say this product is a product that really doesn't need marketing. But of course at the same time we do want to get as much brand equity as possible. We want to be recognized as a household name, whether it be for, you know, fmcg, tobacco, whatever it may be. We want it to be uh, we want to be widely recognized and we want to be uh, linked with quality and premium, you know, sort of a premiumness. So that was very tough to do, of course, but now having started this FMCG brand and getting deeper and deeper into this sector and this industry and you know, we've basically uh, uh, we've been able to play around a lot with our marketing and at the same time also cater to our tobacco products via surrogate marketing. So it's been quite interesting. I mean if you have taken ah, a look at any of our tea packaging, you will see that the, the 30 logo is still retained on each and every packet even till date. You know, I mean initially we started off with that just to you know, sort of gain traction. You know, when the brand first came out on onto shelves and into the market, um, in our initial placement days, we had done that specifically just to gain traction, you know, because we thought, okay, people will, you know, sort of recognize us with this logo and they will automatically say, okay, this is a, uh, this is going to be a good product, you know, because do. That's again, like I said, we're synonymous with quality. Right?

Speaker B: Correct. Correct. Yeah.

Speaker C: So we did that initially. So you know, you can, you can actually, if you can do a, a sort of comparison. Um, if you see our first two package that we came out with, the 30 logo is smack dab in the middle and it's huge. Right. So then you start seeing our newer package that we came out with. In the last year, year and a half, the logo got smaller and smaller and smaller and moved to the bottom right corner of the package market. And this was mainly because we realized that the first lot is of course based on uh, you know, brand equity relationships, you know, respect even or whatever it may be. But the second lot is always based on demand. Right. The second lot that the distributor asks you for is because the consumer has liked the product and he's asking him for more. Right. Uh, so what we decided to do was we back piggybacked off of our 30 logo, our brand equity, to create a, a stand just to put a foot in the door. And once we finally got that, we tried to make Bharat Beverages its own thing by giving it its own identity. You know, m. So we have seen a lot of different sort of things when it comes to uh, marketing. Uh, like I said mentioned to you before, we operate in the north via our current uh, distribution network. But in the south here we operate in a completely different way wherein we have implemented this direct selling point model, you know, which is, which, which is something we don't do anywhere else. So you know, we, we play both sides of the field and it's, it's quite nice in the sense that each one has its pros and cons, each one has its challenges and you know, plus uh, points. And um, yeah, I mean the, the idea, I mean the main logic and the main concept behind marketing is always be evolving. Right. You know, there are, there are these ads, I, I, I don't know if you've heard of this Dollar Shave Club ad. Have you heard of it?

Speaker B: It, I've heard of Dollar Shave Club, but I've not heard of their ad.

Speaker C: So. Yeah, so the Dollar Shave Club guy is just one guy, right. He started this off a couple of years back and he made uh, the most ingenious ad. I think he spent like not even $100 on that ad. And it's just him just walking around with the camera and it's just a very um, fun, entertaining ad to watch. You, you feel like you don't want the ad to end. You know, it's that entertaining. And just off of that he blew up and then he sold his company to. I'm not sure who but, but uh, you know, one of these bigger sort of grooming companies. Um, I just gave a search.

Speaker B: It says uh, this commercial was 13 years ago and I think it's a, ah, 92nd AD.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah, 92nd AD. And um, yeah, just based off of this ingenious ad that this guy basically shot in a warehouse. You know, he basically made his brand uh, a success overnight. You know. So I, I feel it's important on how you market your product and especially if it's something new like you know, as they say, it should stand out, it should be different. Just the product doesn't need to have be, you know, disruptive. Yeah, I think even the manner in which it's marketed can, can sort of, you know, you could like for example, um, Oreo, like Oreo Biscuit. It, it, it wasn't the original biscuit like that, a black biscuit with white cream. There used to be another Company. But do you know that company's name? Because I don't. Right. They just did.

Speaker B: No, I, uh, I have no. I thought it was marketing.

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah, they just marketed it better. They're actually a knockoff. Yeah. So you know. Yeah, yeah. It just goes to show the power of marketing. But uh, I hear this a lot and you know, I also believe in this. But this is something easier said than done. If your product is truly good, you don't have to market it. Now to what extent do you think that is true? Because at the end of the day, awareness is the main thing. Right. If no one is aware about your product, you could even sell gold in packets. But who would buy it? No one knows it exists.

Speaker B: True.

Speaker C: So what is marketing really? Is it a way to convince someone to buy my product over the other guys? Or, uh, is it a way to let people know that, hey, I have a quality product out in the market, you need to try it at least once and then you decide whether you want it or not. So that's when quality comes into play. So in my head, marketing is a one time activity. Once you get, once you get that established moniker that you are, you know, a viable option, that you are associated with quality, you are associated with execution that is precise in terms of packaging, pricing, strategy, place, people, whatever you know, it may be. If all those things are absolutely, you know, to the T, then you just have to market once. Really.

Speaker B: No, that's such an interesting point because I think back on Apple now, when Steve Jobs was at the Helm in 1984, he released the 1984 ad. You remember that. And then you remember the 1997 Think different ad. When was the last time you remember an Apple ad? Right. Apple doesn't do creative ads anymore. They're very functional ads. They don't need to do creative ads because everyone knows what an iPhone is, what an iPad is, what a MacBook is, is. But that initial, those initial ads that Steve Jobs did, they're still imprinted in our minds and we still go back to YouTube to watch those ads. So like you said, it's just marketing a very creative campaign in the beginning. And if that hits the nerve, if that gains virality no matter what.

Speaker C: Absolutely. Like I'm sure till date, you know the washing pot in Nirma song.

Speaker B: Right, Exactly.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: All the. Yeah, we were pretty big on jingles in the 90s.

Speaker C: 90s.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I mean they worked. They worked. Yeah. I still remember that. You know, the product or brand may or may not exist, but the jingles uh, will always be with me.

Speaker B: For some reason, 90s ads were different because you had Alik Padamse, you had Piyush Pandey, who were working on these ads, and they are like. They're like a work of art.

Speaker C: The Legends of the Game.

Speaker B: Yeah, Legends of the Game. Right. And I still go back to those commercials. I mean, there is a guy who has done a compilation of all the early 90s commercials that we have. Have. And it hits that nostalgia nerve, you know, and, uh, that's something that. Yeah. So, uh, there were these real storytellers who were involved. Yeah.

Speaker C: It's interesting you brought up that word nostalgia, because I feel that is a, uh. That is one of the hot topics of marketing these days. Right. Nostalgia. Everyone wants to play on nostalgia these days. Why do you suppose that is?

Speaker B: I think it's, uh. It's, you know, all of us are so inundated with technology. It's always good to think back on a time when, you know, we were not.

Speaker C: Not we.

Speaker B: Yeah, simpler. We used to hang out with friends. Uh, that's why shows like Stranger Things became big. I mean, Stranger Things doesn't have a great plot. Right. It's just nostalgia that is wrapped up in the show. Uh, yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So, uh, people, you know, Hollywood, uh, has understood this long ago. That's why they use nostalgia in, uh, some of their shows and movies. And that's hitting the right nerve with the millennials. Uh, Right. And, uh, apparently even Gen Z are warming up to nostalgia now. I don't know what they're nostalgic about, but. Yeah, so I think it's just. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. You, you. You were sharing something very interesting about nostalgia.

Speaker C: No, I was just saying it really goes to show, right, that, um. Are we unhappy with our current situation as a. As the human race, you know, where we have to revert back to something that wasn't even that long ago? I mean, we're Talking about what, 50, 60 years ago, Max to max in terms of nostalgia. Yeah.

Speaker B: I think for us, I think for us it's the 90s. We always think of 90s as the golden period because that was the right intersection of technology and, uh, probably the, uh, an era where you didn't have so much technology because 90s Internet was like dialog.

Speaker C: Born in. Absolutely, absolutely. I'm born in a time, you know, where, um, this transition was absolutely in the. In its crime of taking place, you know, uh, so I was born at a time when there were no phones, and now we have AI, you know, so. So yeah, so like, you know, it's crazy and so are you. Right. And you know, for someone like my father who lived a very uh, large portion of his life without any of this stuff, you know, they had to remember phone numbers, for example.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You ask, you ask a 15 year old today to recite five phone numbers, they won't even know their, you know, pin code.

Speaker B: It used to be muscle memory for us. Right. Uh, back in the, back in the 90s it used to be muscle memory for us and we used to memorize so many numbers.

Speaker C: Numbers, absolutely. So even like for even today, like I don't, I probably just know my parents numbers and my fiance's number, but like I don't. And my number, you know. And apart from that I, I mean I don't know anyone's numbers but I, I remember this point in the time when my father used to know everyone's numbers. Yeah, he used to, yeah. Oh that, who's that? Uncle City in Barbados. Okay. Plus four or five, whatever, you know. How do you even remember that?

Speaker B: No, interestingly, uh, Abhishek, I still remember my Delhi phone number. The landline number that I had, that we had in Delhi. I still remember that number. Number. It's just a random number that has no significance to me, but it's still, I can still recite the seven digit number. Yeah, exactly. And that's how memories work. Uh, so yeah, people have realized, I think Raksha had a very interesting phrase for it the other day. What did you call it? Raksha, about nostalgia.

Speaker C: Because people love, I think the Gen Z's love reimagined. Yeah, they, you know, just make it cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough. Like uh, yeah, it's basically, you know, like they keep calling the golden age. Right, The golden age.

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker C: yeah, 100. But you know, I, I guess for people born in the 80s, the golden age was the 70s, you know, or the swinging 60s or whatever they call it. Uh, yeah, but you know, for us now of a millennials now, the golden ages or the 90s going forward, hopefully I don't see anyone seeing the late 2000s as a golden age at all.

Speaker B: But uh, yeah, maybe it'll be the intersection. Maybe abhishek, I think 2020 will be nostalgic because that was probably the last time people didn't have AI. Right? AI was something that was introduced.

Speaker C: I meant the late 2020s.

Speaker B: Late 2020s, of course.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you latch onto that as nostalgia, then we probably end up in a very wrong place.

Speaker B: Right? Right. And, uh, millennials are also very interesting.

Speaker C: Sorry, sorry, sorry to cut you off. But just to clarify, these are all my opinions, of course, you know, uh, everyone feels and things differently, but I honestly base my opinions on what I see around me in the business and personal world and also generally what the pulse is around me. You know, people are sort of very stressed out these days. You know, people are, there's a lot of burnout, stress, they're frustrated. You know, um, they work, they work so hard, they don't think they're getting, um, their reimbursement. And whether that's monetary or satisfactory or psychologically or whatever it may be, for each one, it's different. Uh, no one ever is satisfied today. At least the people I have experienced and spoken to and dealt with. And um, I just feel like, you know, then there's, there needs to be some kind of, uh, you know, mental health aspect or mindfulness that needs to be incorporated to just let people know that, you know, this isn't everything, this isn't the end of the world. You know, focusing on yourself, on your health, on your families, on things that aren't work or monetary or, you know, whatever. So that's also important. I mean, you know, health is wealth and you know, as I said, you know, and I, I really believe in that because, uh, I mean, it's just simple. Yeah. Someone having problems at home, someone having problems at work will come into work and they're not going to be productive. Whether you want them to be or not, it's just not going to happen. And then that translates into poor performance and eventually decline in work and you know. Yeah. And more stress. And it's a vicious cycle. And then eventually that, that individual lo job or position and it just adds to it. Right. And then it's a never ending cycle. So people should detach themselves. You know, they should segregate home and work life. Home, work, balance is something I am a big, big, big believer of.

Speaker B: You know, that's, that's great to know because I think what we are experiencing here is the effect of late stage capitalism. You know, you, you see what's happening with South Korea where people are working 16 hours a day and uh, we have people like Narayan Murthy saying very controversial things. Things.

Speaker C: And uh, yeah, I found that very strange, to be honest, that such a elderly gentleman that has been through so much and such a successful individual, it wants to deliberately, you know, saturate his workforce and you, um, know, have them work on, you know, crazy hours or like six, seven Days a week. And you know, how does it make sense? I mean, why would someone work so hard to build something which is at the end of the day is actually mainly benefiting the proprietor of the business? Business.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: I mean, what does he have it in it for him? I mean, you know, another day of salary, I don't think that's a good enough freezer, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, true.

Speaker C: The idea is to love your workplace. You know, when you come into the office in the morning, you should be fueled up, uh, you know, you should be ready to go like a, uh, rocket. And I again, you know, this is something I truly believe. If you have done everything that you set out to achieve for that day, before the day ends, feel free to leave, you know, but, but again, are you satisfied with the work you've done today? You know, are you happy with what you have achieved today? Have you put that notch in your belt today? Only then, you know, feel free. You go home. Even if you finish work at 1pm, if you're happy, go home, take the day off, you know, but if you are not satisfied with what you have done in that specific day, then you sit there and you finish your work and you feel that way till you feel you can leave. And that is something I believe you. So I tell myself very clearly, you know, nine to six, that's the working hour. I don't want anyone after 6:01pm to be in the office. Now whether they choose to sit because they're genuinely dedicated to growing this brand, they have love for the product. We are, you know, basically essentially, uh, a startup at this point. You know, if they feel the need to stay back and put in those extra hours, then I salute them. That's their choice. But I tell them, you know, nine to six it's flat. Go home to your family. Right? So that's something I believe in. The. If the guy. If your employees are satisfied and they're mentally, you know, happy and they're content, then automatically the work, the productivity that comes out is stellar. You know, you can't compare it. No amount of money can replace the kind of motivation that peace of mind gives you.

Speaker B: Yeah. So just a couple of questions. Uh, Abhishek. One is, I just wanted to ask you, you operate from Mangalore, not Bangalore. And uh, just I was just curious about the kind of talent pool you have there because I see a lot of migration happening from Mangalore. I mean, when I was in college, none of us wanted to work in Mangalore. Right? I'm from Elosi. I don't think a single one of us in our batch ended up working in Mangalore. They either went abroad or they went to Bombay or Bangalore. Uh, now how is the talent pool there? Because, um, uh, you know, you have a large office there. I think a large amount of you of your workforce is in Mangalore. Uh, just wanted to know how, how diverse the talent pool is.

Speaker C: Okay, so interesting, you know, very good question in the sense, because I'm right in the middle of this. We're expanding our team. You know, we're growing rapidly. So I'm, you know, very much in the job market searching for the right candidates to join us. Uh, so what I have seen from my experience in the last one and a half years at least, when we have, you know, seriously gone into the entire hiring mode and stuff like that, is that there is scope in towns like this especially now because we see a lot of migration from bigger cities, especially Bombay and Bangalore, coming into Mangalore. Now a huge factor for this was of course Covid, uh, people were just not being able to sustain without jobs in larger cities. So they moved to smaller tier 2, tier 3 towns such as Dehradun, Mangalore, you know, all these kinds of places, places that are now rapidly growing. Uh, that was the first sort of phase of this migration. Now what we see is the oversaturation of metros, right? So everywhere you go, you know, to any of the big names, the bigger cosmos metros, there is bumper to bumper cutthroat traffic, there is pollution in the air, the water is bad, you know, this frustration on the ground because of all these issues, then it's just a densely overpopulated cesspool of, of I just angry people, you know, and I think that gets to you, you know, that, that, that goes back to my previous point of having that sort of mental health instability. You know, it completely works against you if you're in that kind of environment all day and all night. I know people that travel one and a half hours to work and back every day one way and then spend, you know, till 11pm in their so called MNC offices just getting grilled and you know, making pittance. Sorry to say, but you know, know that's the life they've chosen and you know, albeit, okay, good for you, you know, you do what makes you happy, but that's no life to live. Yeah, in my opinion, of course, you know, I am blessed and I'm very fortunate to be part of my business and being born into this family. And I know that not everyone, not most people don't have that opportunity. And I'm not saying this from, uh, some kind of high horse or anything, but you know, just if you can make a tiny change, like move to a better, smaller city that has better air, better facilities, better. Amen, you know, um, more options in terms of, um, sort of, uh, education, you know, because Bangalore is an educational hub as well. Uh, so schools, you know, colleges, etc, apart from that, other facilities for your children. So if, if you can have that opportunity to shift and maybe, you know, uh, have a more peaceful life filled with a little more socially focused aspects to it, I think that's a huge factor in terms of how it affects your work as well. Well, so, yes, so now we see a lot of these people coming into Mangalore. You know, there's a. Also, I don't know if you've heard, a tech park has been announced here as well. So now we are assuming, uh, you know, we're presuming there will be a small boom. Like what?

Speaker B: No, we heard that. I think I had gone to the Silicon beach event. Uh, right. Where they were making an announcement like that.

Speaker C: Yeah, correct, correct. So, you know, so there is also that, uh, you know, so we will now see more and more migration coming into play day. And you know, to an extent that I, I welcome it. Right. Um, of course I welcome the economic growth that it brings, the jobs that it will bring. 100. But also it also helps gentrify the city as a whole. You know, Mangalore is rapidly growing. Like you very rightfully said when you were in college, this was not even on your radar as a place to work or stay on in. Right. You wanted to, I'm sure you were on one foot to finish your education and leave, which is understandable. Right. So I, I feel even if my father and uncles didn't have, have all this going on, they would do the same because two of my uncles even went to America to study. You know, back in the day. They did their masters there. Uh, they did the MBAs. They're sorry. So, you know, they would have, I'm pretty sure they would have loved to stay on, but they had responsibilities back here. They had a legacy to upheld and uphold and maintain. So they came back, you know, and I'm glad they did because now all of us together, we are all driving the growth here that uh, we feel, you know, will in the future generations to come. We might be be in another metropolitan, you know, that it could be, you know, tomorrow. And not that, you know, we want that, but of course, who doesn't Want to gentrify and advance into the next sort of phase of what a city should be. Right.

Speaker B: So no Mangalore being the next Bangalore has been a question. I mean, that has been a prediction for a very long time. Even when I was studying in college.

Speaker C: Even the IT businesses today, even IT business today, they feel that Bangalore is saturated. I mean, most opposite.

Speaker B: And our infrastructure is like so bad. It, I don't think it can handle any more migration.

Speaker C: Even people migrating realize this now. You know, there used to be a time when, you know, people are migrating into Bangalore irrespective of the fact that it was getting choked. But now I think people, when they, when they say, okay, if we're considering the south to move or you know, somewhere else in the south to move, I don't think Bangalore would, is maybe, maybe the third on their list. You know, I would say myo Mangalore maybe not top that list.

Speaker B: List, yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and then Bangalore would be the third option. Right, right. I, I see. I, I, I frequent Bangalore a lot. I have a home there. I have a, uh, very limited business there. But I do go there at least once or twice a month. You know, uh, it has become so much harder to live in now than it ever used to be. And frankly, I used to love going there because it's Bangalore. Right. And I've been going there since I was a child and I would have love, I would love to stay for weeks on end, but now it's like I, after three days, I'm, I want

Speaker B: to go back, know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Seriously.

Speaker C: And it's sad, it's sad to see that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: But I don't even live in like, you know, your main city area. I live in Hebal, so. And now Heal has become its own satellite city basically.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: You know, so I mean, it's, it's just done. Uh, I'm just, you know, it's just saturated. It's just, you know, I don't think there's more room there to do more. And um, of course, you know, the trivial things like your social life, pubs, bars, restaurants, uh, entertainment. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: By far. It's way more fun in Bangalore, you know, I mean, for a night out or to have a good time or whatever. But I just feel in terms of quality of life, it's, it's not ideal anymore. True, true. Um, so going back to your original question, you know, I've beaten around the bush quite a bit. Going back to your original question about the employment pool, the talent pool, it is limited at this point in time, but it is on the verge of, um, you know, sort of blowing up and growing tenfold at the same time. I'm, you know, tying all the, all of this in. We see a lot of candidates from Bangalore and Bombay applying to us and then when we ask them and tell them that this is a full time on site job in Mangalore, they're more than happy to move.

Speaker B: That's very, that's telling you something very interesting.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's telling you something and you know, something fascinating. Sandeep. You know, I can't speak for all my staff, but a few of them, you know, um, they were even prepared to take her a relatively less, Less, um, yeah, a relatively less package than what they were getting in their previous job simply because they were happy to move back to a smaller, more affordable town.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. The cost of living is also pretty low. I mean when you could take the housing into consideration, the restaurants and so many things in Mangalore, the cost of

Speaker C: living again, I think I feel all this is a, uh, it's a ticking time. You know, it's taking time bomb. This is about to blow up anytime now. You know, I feel real estate value here will skyrocket as soon as this uh, tech park becomes more of a concrete thing. Um, you know, I, I think uh, even that has a timer on it. You know, the, the fact that it's cheaper to sustain here, so we have to wait and watch how it goes. You know, again, at the same time, Bangalore was a large city and still is. Mangalore isn't that big when it comes to surface area. So how we expand is going to be interesting to see. But yes, I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm quite satisfied with my current team. I have about 12 people in office and about seven, eight, um, salesmen, including to drivers that are in the market doing line sales. And I'm very, very happy with the people I've hired. I mean and most of them are locals and two, three of them are from Bangalore people I have. And uh, the thing is they're eager to learn here. You know, they're eager to learn. So that is a huge thing. Uh, from my experience, we get a couple of these city guys, you know, they've had a lot of experience and all that, uh, think they already know everything or they try to sort of build uh, similarities between their previous role and their current role. And that's when the communication gap sets in and then there's no going back because once someone settles into a certain way of working right, it is extremely hard to make them revert back to their sort of um, the way that you would want them to operate in, you know, a function in.

Speaker B: Great.

Speaker C: So once that happens, I feel you hit a dead end, you know, so that is something. And another thing, another big part of the way I at least look at cvs or resumes is if I see a CV where I see an individual that has worked one or two years at a job and then gone to another job, done a year, then there, gone to another job and done another year, there gone to another job and done two years, there now is again in the market for a job. I immediately reject that cv. Even if the uh, companies might be Goldman, Morgan Stanley, KPMG. I don't care if these guys have done 1, 1, 1, 1 year. I know they're not going to stick around. So it's absolutely pointless for me to invest that time, effort and money into them in their training, in their development.

Speaker B: Yeah, fair.

Speaker C: So how does that make sense?

Speaker B: Yeah, that's that, that shows the pattern. Right. Of the individual. And I think these days you can apply the AI filters and you don't even need to check these resumes manually.

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah. And um, you know, so, uh, recently a CV came across my desk. This gentleman, he was at this company for 20 years. They refused to give him an increment after 20 years. And that's when he left finally and we took him on board. You know that we are very, very serious about, um, business relationships both outside and within the business. Uh, we call it the Bharat Parivar, you know, here in our uh, in, at our company. And uh, we, we basically try to nurture these relationships, employees and our staff for decades to come. We have people working with us within the office as well. You know, I mentioned the distributors who've been with us for three generations. We have people working with us for more than almost three decades, three and a half decades, still working. They refuse to retire. You know, so, so that's the kind of shift that we run. You know, it's, it's, it's a shift based on uh, mutual respect, love, uh, at the same time, very target and you know, target focused and target oriented, um, you know, wherein if someone makes a mistake or someone doesn't, you know, do what they're meant to do or uphold their responsibility or role, it is met with, you know, a certain sternness that should be obviously, you know, um, ah, expressed because if you let it slide then you're setting an example for everyone else. Right. So we do have certain ways that where we handle things when they go awry. But all in all it's a very sort of happy working environment wherein we all feel like a family more than a workforce. And you know, um, just generally, you know, just talking about this, I uh, I find it very interesting that why would people sort of spend just about a year in a role and leave? You know, what is driving them to do that? Is it the monetary aspect? Is it the notch on the belt that they feel okay, they work at so many companies and they, they look good. I don't get it. Right. So this is something I don't, I don't specifically prefer that, but that's just me, you know. Right, Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean the individual circumstances may be different. Uh, in some cases like you said, sometimes it may not be monetary. Maybe the, the kind of pressure environment that they are in, especially when they work in an IT company where uh, you know, they have something called this crunch time. Right. I mean it basically uh, you know, destroys your whole. So in such cases when you're shifting from one IT company to the other and you don't find a culture fit, maybe you know, when you're young in your career, maybe people do shift.

Speaker C: So I, I, I agree with you on this point. But you know, the CVS that come across my desk are mostly, you know, of sales and marketing. Marketing and specifically in the FMCG industry. Right. So when I see this in fmc, like someone works at uh, you know, hul, then he goes to itc, then he goes to Nest. I mean how does that make sense?

Speaker B: And you know, I had one question for you Abhishek. So I mean with respect to resumes, you're not industry agnostic, is it you want individuals who've been in fmcg?

Speaker C: No, no, not really. Not really. But of course it does help in terms of um, it just cuts down my training time. Right. It cuts down my sort uh, of investment into the individual. So it, that makes it slightly risk averse. So in case they decide to happen and leave, believe, you know, uh, at least I haven't, you know, pumped in that much time and effort in their training and development. So that is one thing I consider. But no, I, I, I don't mind. If they can be across the industries, uh, that's fine. But the, the role as in the specification of the role and the background knowledge, theoretical or practical has to be for that specific role. So if I want an HR person, I mean he can't be a uh, marketing guy. Uh, you know. Yeah, I get a lot of CVs like that also. Yeah, I get a lot of CVs. And, you know, the guy is an accountant. He's saying, I don'. Accounting, I want to be a salesman.

Speaker B: No, because the supply is bigger than the demand. I mean, right now we have so many unemployed people who are applying to different positions, even though they may not have the skill because the supply itself is so great and the demand is not catching up.

Speaker C: A big part of what I do is I hire freshers. You know, I really like working with freshers because they are eager to learn. They, you know, they. They enjoy the job. For them, for them getting this job, it's their first job, you know, they take it seriously. Obviously, it's like a blessing in disguise for them. You know, their families are proud of them, their friends are, you know, they're proud of them. You know, they've gotten that first job. They're absolutely enthusiastic. So I like nurturing that. You know, I like elongating that. That feeling that they get from their first job for the. For as long as possible. Because that is a momentary, uh. It's a fleeting moment, right? It's like your first love, you know, you feel that passionate sort of feeling towards your partner for the maybe first two years, and then slowly fades. And yes, then it's a. It's more of a habitual love for a silen, quiet, silence. Uh, you know, more than that sort of intense, passionate passion. You know what I mean? So that fades, and that's. That's just human nature. And I try to keep them feeling like this is, you know, this is their home for as long as possible. Um, still. Absolutely, you know, it's. Maybe if they absolutely want to leave. I mean, I can't stop anyone from doing that. But I try to keep this, the. The. The work environment, the culture here. I try to keep it very homely, very relaxed, you know, of course, there are targets. You match them. But a lot of autonomity, as in, you know, how you get there, you do it, figure it out yourself. You know, I'll give you all the tools, the resources, the training you require. I'll even hold your hand and get you there. But how you get there is entirely up to you. I just need to see this figure match at the end of the month, you know, and of course, if there are certain individuals that don't operate like that, they need to be handheld. They need to be told exactly what to do, how to do, do it, and how to get them. That is fine. Because, you know, they. They are probably um, you know, their expertise is somewhere else, their advantages lie somewhere else, which is. Okay, so in that scenario, yes, we do handhold them, we do help them out. But then the idea here is that if I'm handholding you, I don't expect to be doing this to you five years down the line. Right? You have to be able to adapt. You have to be able to evolve. You have to be able to show me that you can learn and tack on more responsibility. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what makes, you know, know, a good employee. A good employee. You know, adaptability. And in today's, you know, global economic and social environment, we are so volatile and, you know, we're absolutely changing by the minute. So staying relevant, you know, staying, uh, adaptable, it's. It's the only thing we have in terms of when it. When it really comes down to the brass tax of marketing, that's what I feel.

Speaker B: Abhishek, one last question. Was, uh, uh, any fun anecdote or message you want to leave for our listeners who are also young marketers like you? You know, you manage a legacy business, but overall, any young marketer who's out there in the market, whether he's in Bangalore or Mangalore or anywhere in India, any specific message or anecdote you have

Speaker C: for this listener, for the young marketers out there, I would say in marketing especially, uh, risk your profit margins, not your principles. So that is something that I truly believe and also stand by, you know, if it is a little, little, uh, out of the way, if it's a little expensive, if it's a little out of reach, you know, and you feel it's worth doing, do it. But not at the, you know, helm or at the word of, you know, risking your principles or your company's ethos or its philosophy. So that's what I believe. So risk your profit margin, not your principles. That is something I would like to say. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker B: You know, we want to close it on a fun segment, a rapid fire segment, something that I want to implement on my podcast. And, uh, uh, since we already have you, it'll be great if you can participate in it. It'll not take much time. So just, uh, a few rapid, uh, fire questions and, uh, you can just give your thoughts, uh, you know, in few, uh, words. Okay, so the first is, uh, first is a true or false question. The classic marketing playbook is dead.

Speaker C: Uh, false.

Speaker B: Uh, can you expand on that for a bit?

Speaker C: Well, I feel it's because I don't Think it's dead. I feel it has always been the fundamental and will continue to be the fundamentals of marketing. I think it is just evolving over time.

Speaker B: So, uh, the second question. What's one legacy marketing tactic that still works surprisingly well for you today?

Speaker C: Well, this is unfair to say about brand equity, of course. You know, uh, years of trust and years of commitment. Commitment.

Speaker B: Okay, if you had unlimited marketing budget tomorrow, where would you invest?

Speaker C: I would probably just buy out Meta.

Speaker B: If it was unlimited, I said. Okay. So that's a great answer. Uh, because with Meta, you get Facebook, Instagram, you, uh, also get the AR and VR, which is a failing product, but still. So great.

Speaker C: I mean, then, you know, I handle my hand, my own marketing.

Speaker B: Yeah, you don't have to worry about your digital, uh, marketing budget or your social media marketing marketing budget. Okay, next question. Which is more important for a heritage, uh, brand preserving tradition or driving disruption?

Speaker C: For a heritage brand, I would say driving disruption because adaptability and evolving over time are key things that, you know, keep a heritage brand relevant in the future.

Speaker B: Great. And social, uh, media. Do you think it's an essential tool or necessary evil for a legacy business?

Speaker C: For a business, it's an essential tool. Maybe for the consumer, it's a necessary evil. They hate to love it.

Speaker B: Great. And the last question. Uh, business opportunity you want new entrepreneurs to invest in today?

Speaker C: Uh, um, I mean, I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I'll sound a little boring, but I still believe it's real estate.

Speaker B: Great answer. I think someone said, uh, your, your future depends on your pin code. So people who have generated wealth, I think. But yeah, I think, uh, we were just talking about it. Right. Mangalore Real, uh, estate is about to skyrocket. Uh, and I think comes up and, uh, there are these, uh.

Speaker C: I mean, it's common sense. Yeah. Land is limited, population is exploding. Uh, you know, everyone needs land. Everyone needs space to exist or work, to operate, to function. Uh, so why not be the guy that gives it to them, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for that very honest answer. Because, uh, people, uh, you know, some, some of the other entrepreneurs would have said AI or crypto or something like that. So. Okay, thank you so much, Abhishek. Uh, thank you for taking your time and, uh, for giving us a clear window into how a legacy business operates behind the scenes. We have never had someone like you on the podcast, and it was, uh, really a pleasure to talk to you and hopefully, uh, we can do it, uh, soon, uh, sometime. Whenever you're launching a new product. We we would love to have you back on the show.

Speaker C: Definitely. And honestly, the pleasure was all mine Sandeep. I had a great, great time, you know, having this back and forth and uh, uh yeah, I wish you on the podcast all the success and I hope to be on your soon again. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker B: Thanks Abhishek. I really appreciate it.

Speaker A: Marketing Mantra with Sandeep Mallya is a podcast by 99signals. A place to find top notch content on a wide range of online marketing topics. Topics. To get started, visit 99signals.com best to check out all the top rated articles on the blog or simply view the description of each episode to download free online marketing resources to level up your marketing skills. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode. Got a question or topic suggestion for Sandeep? Simply send a voice message via anchor app or send an email to podcasts99signals.com. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Marketing Mantra on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify or any major podcast player.