Marketers Do Coffee · 2026-06-30 · 42 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
55 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Amy Watts, a B2B social strategist specializing in LinkedIn content, challenges the perception that B2B marketing must be boring and demonstrates how carousels - LinkedIn's most-saved content format - can be both fun and effective. The episode centers on why carousels work: they're highly savable, shareable, and perfect for telling stories or teaching frameworks in a way that lets viewers easily return and reference specific slides. Watts uses Semrush and Asana as case studies, showing how behind-the-scenes experiments (Semrush's ChatGPT discovery story) and cultural storytelling (Asana's Home Alone project management narrative) drive engagement and saves. She emphasizes that success hinges on strong content strategy first - good ideas, authenticity, and specificity - rather than design complexity. Watts creates all her carousels in Canva, using a repeatable template with consistent colors, fonts, and layout. This consistency trains audiences to recognize and engage with her brand's carousel format. She advocates for simplicity, white space, and bold headlines over dense visual embellishments. The conversation dispels the myth that carousels require advanced design skills or complex tools, positioning them as more beginner-friendly than formats like infographics, provided creators focus on story, authenticity, and readable content.
Hosted by Christine Orchard. The show scores 75.0/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.
Carousels work best for fully-formed ideas, stories, frameworks, and visual concepts that benefit from multiple slides. Unlike videos, carousels are easily savable and referenceable - people can come back to specific slides. They give you space to walk through a complete thought or journey in a way a single image can't, making them ideal for behind-the-scenes narratives or step-by-step teaching.
Keep it simple: use the same layout, colors, and fonts every time, with only the copy and imagery changing. Simplicity and consistency actually perform better because audiences recognize your brand's format in the feed. You need just a bold headline, one supporting image per slide, and white space - design complexity isn't required to make carousels work.
Amy uses Canva exclusively. She chose it because it's accessible, has built-in commenting and sharing features for client collaboration, and allows her to make edits quickly - critical when producing roughly 10 carousels per week.
In Amy's experience working with clients, carousels consistently outperform text-only posts, single images, and videos. However, the quality of the underlying content (behind-the-scenes insights, real experiments, specificity) matters more than the format itself.
Semrush showed an internal experiment: they discovered ChatGPT didn't mention them when asked about AI tools, which was problematic for an SEO company. The carousel walked through the problem, the fix, and results - then shared what audiences could do. It was honest, behind-the-scenes, and specific, making it one of their best-performing posts and establishing a repeatable format Semrush now follows.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains practical, actionable advice about carousel creation with some genuine insights (e.g., 'thin vs. thick content' framework, the importance of narrative structure, and audience-first thinking). However, much of the discussion repeats standard social media best practices ('have a strong hook,' 'keep it simple,' 'tell a story') that most B2B marketers have encountered before. The guest does offer some novel framings, but there's considerable filler with repetition of core points and tangential stories.
carousels are, like, the perfect format for when you want to express, like, a fully formed idea or if you want to express a story or maybe you want to follow a thought, but in a way that's more easily referenced
having that same format each time means that when people are scrolling through their feed, they're gonna kind of, they're gonna tune back in, they're gonna go, oh, I know this, I know this person, I know this brand
While Amy presents some useful distinctions (thin vs. thick content, the idea that good carousel ideas come from real conversations rather than brainstorming), the core frameworks and recommendations are fairly conventional in B2B content strategy. The comparison to infographics and the emphasis on storytelling, hooks, and visual hierarchy are well-trodden territory. The guest does avoid clichés but doesn't introduce genuinely counterintuitive or contrarian thinking.
the carousels that perform best are always the ones that came from a real conversation or a real debate or someone leaving a comment in my comment section that annoyed me
a lot of people make the mistake when it comes to carousels of thinking about what they want to say as opposed to what their audience wants to read
Amy is a B2B social strategist and creator who has hands-on experience building LinkedIn carousels for clients like Semrush and Asana, and works with founders. However, she is relatively early in her independent consulting journey (mentioned 'seven months' of client work at the time of recording) and has limited scale compared to marketing leaders at major companies. She brings practitioner credibility but lacks the seniority or scale impact of someone who has built large-scale marketing functions or achieved exceptional business outcomes.
I'm a B2B social strategist and content creator
I've been working with clients. I have realized that the carousels that perform best are always the ones that came from a real conversation
The episode includes specific company examples (Semrush, Asana) and named case studies (the Semrush ChatGPT/AI tools carousel, the Asana Home Alone post). However, quantitative evidence is almost entirely absent - no performance metrics, engagement rates, growth numbers, or financial outcomes are provided. The discussion remains largely qualitative, describing what worked and why, but lacking hard data to support claims about carousel performance.
this was one of the best performing that we've worked on together [referring to the Semrush carousel]
Asana, um, are a great company to follow on social, on Instagram, on LinkedIn. They do really, really fun content
The host (Speaker A) asks reasonable setup questions and demonstrates genuine curiosity, but rarely pushes back, challenges claims, or probes deeper when vague statements are made. The conversation flows naturally but lacks the kind of productive friction that would test ideas or reveal nuance. Follow-ups are generally surface-level (e.g., 'What tool do you use?' rather than 'How do you measure whether a carousel truly drove business results?'). The host does raise a few good points but doesn't aggressively pursue them.
I would love to look at some examples. You mentioned cereal. I don't know if that's one example you want to show
Do you have any examples of, like, carousels that didn't go well?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Make LinkedIn carousels people actually read, save, and remember. In this episode, Amy Watts, B2B social strategist and content creator, breaks down actual examples of great brand carousels. She's run social for SaaS startups, audited dozens of brand channels, and now collaborates with B2B companies like HubSpot and Semrush. What makes Amy's approach different: she doesn't treat B2B social as “professional content.” She treats it as community building. Strategic, human, and virtually impossible to scroll past. In this episode, we cover: Why most B2B carousels look polished and still flop How to write a hook that earns the swipe The biggest mistake B2B brands make on LinkedIn How to make B2B fun without making it cringe Where to start if you're a marketer with zero carousel experience
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Should I say something outrageous just to go viral? First of all, if it's not related to your product in any way, that's not going to help you if you just say some, you know, say something ridiculous. It has. It also has to be based on something that you believe. Like, it has to be sort of true, or you can't maintain that facade for very long.
Speaker B: Simplicity works best, in my opinion. Uh, same format each time means that when people are scrolling through their feed, they're going to tune back in, they're going to go, oh, I know this, I know this person, I know this brand. Whereas if it's a different design, there's a different color, it's not as recognizable, People are more likely to scroll past.
Speaker A: My. One of my clients, I was like, send me some selfies. You know, I'm going to help you figure out what selfies you can use to, uh, make your content get, you know, and they just had such a hard time with understanding, like, what kind of selfies to take. So I created a carousel of how to create selfies for LinkedIn. It was very helpful to my clients, but also, I just, like, let me just share this carousel on LinkedIn. And it performed really well. So, like, those things that really come as questions that you might not have even thought is relevant, pay attention to those. Hi, Amy. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This
Speaker B: is actually my first podcast I've ever done, so thank you for having me.
Speaker A: Ooh, I'm excited to be the first one. Well, the reason I invited you to chat with me is I really want to understand carousels better. Okay, so this is one of the most saved content types on LinkedIn. Everyone's promising tools to do it better. The tools don't work. At least not the ones I tried don't work that well, I think, because it's, uh, a. It's a more complicated format to do, but you do them really well. And I'm really excited to hear from you. By the way, if you don't know Amy, she's a B2B social strategist and content creator. Check her out on LinkedIn. I'll definitely link, um, your link below. But really, I want to understand how it seems like you have fun with it. I mean, it's in your tagline. You know, B2B brands don't have to be boring, right? But let's just spend this, you know, 45 minutes to an hour and just go deep in what makes a good carousel. Let's see some examples, and hopefully folks will Get a really good idea on how they can spend the time on creating them, but also get the results that, that you know, you're hoping for. So
Speaker B: amazing.
Speaker A: Let's dive in. Um, yeah, as I mentioned, your tagline, it's definitely, it's a good one. It says B2B marketing, but make it fun. So why do you, why do you, why do you say that? I guess. Tell me more. I think B2B
Speaker B: has this reputation now for being B2 boring. Boring to boring. And I think where it stems from is that usually, BT Mark, B2B marketers have a tendency to take themselves very seriously. I think, you know, because we're selling to businesses, brands kind of assume that they have to be quote, unquote professional, whatever that really means, and also always perfect, always the most polished version of themselves, they can't show any flaws, they can't show a crack in the armor. It has to be very, you know, solid across the board. But the thing is, you know, we're not talking to faceless entities. You know, we're still selling to people. They just work at companies. So all of the things that make good content, all the criteria for, ah, effective, impactful, memorable content still applies. Just because you're talking to someone who is at work rather than in their personal life, scrolling on their phone on the sofa at 9 o' clock in the evening, the content that's going to grab their attention, it's still the same, you still have to apply the same principles. It's um, just in a slightly different context and slightly different topics and nuances, you know. So I think a lot of B2B marketers lose sight of that. And it's like, if you want to get through to these people, amid all of the AI slop, all of the ads, all of the content they're seeing all the time, you still need to make them feel something. And I think something that not a lot of people talk about is that even those of us who work in B2B marketing, if you don't have any fun with your work, but it's there to keep you going, you know, if all you have to do is write boring white papers and case studies and just feel very kind of robotic all the time, you know, there's only so much that you can do before you just lose the world, carry on. So I think even for us, we need to find some joy in the work we do. So that's kind of the, that's my manifesto.
Speaker A: Um,
Speaker B: when it comes to making B2B marketing, love it
Speaker A: especially do you focus on LinkedIn or do you do other platforms as well?
Speaker B: Focus. It's my niche.
Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, so same thing here. This is why you don't talk about on the podcast. And I think, especially with LinkedIn, I think there's a lot of. If you expand that, like, why people don't want to have fun on it, like, this is not Instagram, or you'll get, like, there's a lot of fear. I hear from my clients who are like. But I have so many. Think. Think of all the peers and connections they have on LinkedIn. So because of that as well, I think LinkedIn tends to avoid anything that is too risky. Some people tend to avoid that, and therefore they. They don't have as much fun with it. So I think LinkedIn also just tends to be one of the social platforms that is the most for some people. Um, so you found a way to, you know, lighten it up a little bit, especially on LinkedIn. So that's what I'm excited to, you know, hear about, how you've done that. But also you have the numbers to prove that, like, this stuff works. This stuff works. So let's talk about carousels, which is the topic of the day. I was mentioning at the beginning that carousels are a popular, top popular, uh, content type, but they're harder to do. They're harder to. To do. Right. And I mean, I've been working in this space for a while, and you want to invest the time and make sure you're creating something that is worthwhile, that's going to perform better than a text post. So what, like, what would you say? What makes some piece of content worth being a carousel? If you were to say, like, this idea is worthy of
Speaker B: putting
Speaker A: it into. A lot of people
Speaker B: find carousels very daunting, I think, because there's like a blank canvas m to work with and you have to design something and you have to figure out a layout, and it feels very, yeah, daunting. But really it's pretty simple when you bring it back to kind of the essence of what a carousel needs to be. I think I always think of carousels as, like, the perfect format for when you want to express, like, a fully formed idea or if you want to express a story or maybe you want to follow a thought, but in a way that's more easily referenced. So you could do the same thing with a video. You know, it's a great way to kind of tell a story or express what you're thinking about something or how you're feeling or an experience that you had. But it's much harder for people to then go back and find that one moment in a video that they really liked. They're not going to sit there and kind of scroll through the video again and again. Whereas a carousel, that's something that you can save and you can easily go back and reference it. Uh, it's highly savable, it's highly shareable. It's just easier for people to kind of refer back to. It's a great way to share frameworks or examples or visual, you know, things to come back to. So I think that's kind of how I differentiate what makes a really good carousel and what might work better as a video or as kind of a texting post or whatever. Um, and I think carousels also, yeah, they work really well for visual concepts. So if you want to go through and share some kind of screenshots of great examples of content, or if you're telling like a visual story, it works. It gives you so much more space to work with within the feed. Whereas if you just have like one image to tell one story, it's much harder to do. So. Um, and I think I also really love carousels. Kind of the more storytelling element of like adding that suspense. I don't know if, you know, surreal. On LinkedIn, they're like a serial company that are known for having like quite a quirky, crazy personality. Um, and if you look at the carousels, it's literally just like plain, colorful background text. But there's like maybe one line of text on each page and it can go on for like 70 slides. And it's just them being really funny and weird and just. But you keep reading because you can't stop because the suspense, it's like, where is this going? I have no idea. Before you know it, you've read 70 slides and learned nothing. But it's entertaining you there and it makes you want to come back for more. I think there's so much you can do with carousels, but most of
Speaker A: the time being
Speaker B: able to kind of make better use of that space to express something more fully to take people on a journey, which so much harder to do with just like a single image and a caption, you know?
Speaker A: Yeah. So like, I don't know if it's. It's because I don't do as many carousels, but I would say text posts for my clients still tend to be like the, the all time high performers in terms of like impressions. And I think those, maybe they travel further because there's more of them. So you get more like outliers. I don't know. But like, have you seen terms of like, the. The formats that you do have? Carousels been your highest performing
Speaker B: format, I would say. I think in my time working with clients, I've only written maybe four text only posts. I think maybe it's because carousels is my thing and people come to me because they want to do carousels. But yeah, whenever we've tried text only or we've tried an image or a video, it's always the carousels that do better. Uh, maybe that's just because I love them and I'm better at making them. Who knows? Um, but I think people are really.
Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's why I wanted to talk to carousels at the
Speaker B: moment. I think they have a lot of potential. So. Yeah, they just seem to be really taking off.
Speaker A: Yeah. So I told you I'd love to look at some examples. You mentioned cereal. I don't know if that's one example you want to show, but like, I would love to start digging into some. You know, since this is a visual format, let's start talking about them. Do you want to start with cereal or something?
Speaker B: Um, that's a bit more B2B vibes. Okay. That I can share with you.
Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Because. So I would. Yeah, basically, I think with. With this podcast, it's great for folks to see this in action and see what we're talking about. So I would love for you to share something that could be something you've worked on or could be someone else's and really just show, like, why it worked. And then we could just really go, you know, through the carousel together and explain some of the features so that we could then towards the end of this, kind of put everything back together and say, these are some of the principles that other people can. So I have an example that I work on with a
Speaker B: client and then I have an example of like a brand that I really love who do carousels really well. So I got two to show you.
Speaker A: Awesome. That'll be a great. Uh. Yeah, show
Speaker B: it that way. Or do you want me to send you the link? Okay,
Speaker A: yes, please. Go ahead. Go ahead and share. Because. Yeah, and then anyway, I'll edit in a way that it'll look good.
Speaker B: I've, um, never used Riverside before, so give me a second to figure out how. Share screen close
Speaker A: to the leave button. Just don't click the leave button.
Speaker B: Okay. So I think you should be able to see that. Can you see LinkedIn? Okay. So this
Speaker A: is a post
Speaker B: I worked on with Semrush, um, who make great use of carousels. They're one of my favorite brands to work with because they always have so much. They give me so much freedom to do fun things with carousels. Um, but this was one that we worked on that was based on kind of a real case study, a real experiment they'd been running internally. And, um, I think the way the reason this really works is because usually Semrush, their vibe is more so talking about kind of things going on in the industry, what it's like being in a marketer. But this kind of gave their audience like an inside look and what was going on behind the scenes. So they were talking about, you know, when we first asked ChatGPT about AI tools, they didn't even mention us. And Semrush is known for SEO, they're known for m getting companies seen online. And they said we weren't even getting ourselves seen online. Um, so I think this was like a really compelling hook for the audience. It was quite an honest hook and I think it really worked. And then in the carousel. Yeah, and then in the carousel, it goes through and it tells the full story. This is what we discovered, this is how we fixed it. They, um, walked through kind of showing the results and all of the numbers. And I think it was a really interesting carousel for people who weren't used to seeing this kind of thing from Semrush. And it showed real examples and then it showed also, this is how we did it. This is what you can do if you have the same problem. Um, and it's one of the best performing that we've worked on together. And ever since we've been kind of following this format of kind of showing an experiment or an internal test and being super honest about this is the problem we have and this is what we're doing to fix it. And here's how you can do it too. So I've always loved this example and I've always come back to it and showed it to other clients and other people who want kind of examples of how B2B brands can do something really interesting with a carousel. Um, so it's always been one of my favorites.
Speaker A: I have, uh, one comment and one question. So I. Speaking of the content, you've just described the content format of sort of sharing. I don't know if you want to call it an experiment, sharing something internal, like behind the scenes, that type. I've also seen working with my clients in text format. So what's interesting is what you just said is like, maybe it's format is one thing, but like good content is the other piece. Right? You're, you can't just shove anything into a carousel and expect it to perform. These are like things that people want to know about. They're behind the scenes, they are specific to you or your brand. Like if you have an internal experiment, no one else can talk about that or data no one else can talk about. So that's really interesting is like the content first, uh, that needs to be great. Um, and then the other, the question I have is I noticed this is square. Is a square format. Is that right? Like, do you have a preference on square versus four by five?
Speaker B: Yeah, I stick to kind of the 4x5 standard. Obviously the way that carousel show on LinkedIn has changed recently, which I'm not a huge fan of. I hate the new design
Speaker A: and
Speaker B: I hope they go back to the old one pretty soon. There's thunder and lightning here. Sorry, sorry if you heard that, that's intense. Um, what was I talking
Speaker A: about?
Speaker B: Yeah, when it comes to kind of sizing, I think it tends to depend on what you want to show. I usually tend to stick to four by five just to kind of keep things more standard. Um, you know, on my content I prefer to have like the same layout and make it very easily recognizable for people. Uh, when it comes to clients, you know, sometimes people want to show, um, like a full framework and it needs to be landscape or sometimes the content works. In this case, it worked better as a square format because of just kind of what we wanted to show on screen. And sometimes you have to be a little bit flexible with the layouts that you want. I think what's more important is that everything is readable.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: that it grabs you in feed and that it kind of, it functions as a carousel. It's less about the dimensions. I would say it's more about like the consistency in your goals with content, what you can show visually on screen.
Speaker A: And I noticed that the carousels that you do, they look very polished. What do you actually use to create them? Like, what do you use, your tool set, basically. What do you use? I
Speaker B: do everything in Canva. Um, I used to do Figma when I worked in house and I needed to do kind of like more product, ui, screenshots and all that kind of thing. Um, but I find Canva has everything that I need. They're always adding cool new features. Just makes it easier to do edits, share with clients. They can leave comments Directly. And it's just a bit more accessible for someone who's making like, what, 10 carousels a week? Um, I just need everything simple, like in one place. So, yeah, Canva is the only tool I really use.
Speaker A: I love that. So this is very doable. It's very accessible to people. You don't have to be a designer per se, but I think, like, do you think design plays a role? Like, because you mentioned, um, uh, you know, this is a slightly harder format. People can feel overwhelmed. Um, like, what is your background in relation to design? And like, how big of a role do you think does design play in? Yeah, it's funny. Design is the
Speaker B: thing that pops up the most, that really scares people when it comes to the carousel. So it's this thing that people find tends to be the biggest roadblock. Um, I'm not a trained designer. I'm someone who kind of likes design and I have maybe an instinct of what looks good and what feels right. Um, but I really, I don't think that carousels need to be these super complex, well put together things in order to work. If you look at most of my carousels, they're very simple. I have the same layout every time, same colors, same fonts. It's usually just kind of like the imagery that changes and maybe the layout will kind of slightly adapt, but most of the time it's pretty much coffee, copy and paste. You can look through my feed. They're all the same. And, um, I think that's important. I think a lot of people feel like you have to do something different every time, and we have to kind of do an entirely new design for each concept. But I would actually keep it really simple. Having that same format each time means that when people are scrolling through their feed, they're gonna kind of, they're gonna tune back in, they're gonna go, oh, I know this, I know this person, I know this brand. I'm plugged back in, ready for my favorite TV show. I'm plugged in and I'm ready to go. Whereas if it's this, if it's a different.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: design. If it's a different color, if it's a different thing every time, it's not as recognizable. People are more likely to scroll past. So I think having something repeatable is really important.
Speaker A: Absolutely.
Speaker B: Simplicity works best, in my opinion. I've tested lots of different carousels with clients and trying to bring in imagery and different layouts and all this. And we always find that the simple is best. Just a very bold, striking headline um, an image that really adds that context, adds that visual cue, maybe a subtitle if needed. But I just, I think simple always works best. What you want is to let the hook work for itself most of the time. And, you know, having that white space and that leaving space for the content you've written and that you showed to breathe is really important. So if people are feeling overwhelmed when it comes to carousels, I would always say just keep it as simple as possible and add embellishments as you go and you feel more comfortable. But it really doesn't have to be like the most amazing design you've ever seen to work.
Speaker A: This is interesting because if you think about the formats that exist, um, I recently talked to Vince Pierre. He's known for doing infographics on, um, LinkedIn. And the opposite is true. For an infographic, you want to make it really dense and in one image you want to shove as much information as you can, make people want to save it. So I think, you know, there's different places and different times for different formats. But I think it's interesting that with a carousel you are telling a story that needs room to breathe. It's. It's something that, um, at least, you know, eight. I don't know how, if you have a minimum, but like six to 10 slides, you need that space. So I think maybe it's more of a beginner friendly format than something like an infographic.
Speaker B: If
Speaker A: you watched my previous episode, you were scared away.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: To do them well, these
Speaker B: queries from Fletch. Right. I love their infographics. I think I've saved like a million of them. Yes. I
Speaker A: think his brother is. Yes and yes. Yeah. Then his brother did end up doing infographics. So it's in the marketing space. But, um, yeah, just focus on infographics. So if you, you could check his stuff out if you're interested in learning. But I do think it's a totally different. Completely different. Like it's, it really is. It's doing a completely different job.
Speaker B: So it requires a very different set of skills. Whereas parasols. Yeah. I would say that they're more. I think they have this reputation of being very daunting and scary, but I think they're actually pretty beginner friendly.
Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. I think you're making it seem like you can. Don't be afraid, give it a try kind of thing. That's
Speaker B: my
Speaker A: mission. Like everyone can try. It's not like blank page on Canva. Yeah. So let's go ahead and look at another one you said it was just a brand that you like. Uh, another good example and we can see some more. This is one of
Speaker B: the. So Asana, um,
Speaker A: are
Speaker B: a great company
Speaker A: to
Speaker B: follow on social, on Instagram, on LinkedIn. They do really, really fun content. Actually spoke to um, one of the team, um, last, a couple of months ago and we did like a bit of an interview to figure out more about, um, more about their strategy. It was really interesting. But one of my favorite posts I've seen from them is that for Christmas last year, they took the example of Home Alone, which I'm sure all of us know, um, of the worst planning, um, the worst example of planning you've probably ever seen in media and as a project management tool. They said this is how the McAllister family would have actually made their flight and not left their kid behind, um, if they'd used Asana, which I think is just such a fun way to show off your product. And I think it was timely because it was Christmas. It's a piece of popular media that everyone knows. Everyone has seen this image of Kevin in the mirror. Um, so it's instantly recognizable in the feed. It grabs your attention. You're thinking, home Alone. Why am I seeing Home alone on my LinkedIn screen? Um, and as you go through, it's just, it's actually a, it's a well put together story. So they're taking the example that all of us know and they kind of give this alternative ending of if they had used Asana and if they'd use these features, um, this is how it would have gone a little bit better for them. Um, so I think this was just a really fun way to talk about the product because, you know, most product marketing content you see on LinkedIn is fairly stale, fairly boring. Maybe it's just kind of a simple mock up or one of those really slick animated AI videos. Whereas this is like a really fun, relatable way to show off what their product does. So, um, this is always one of my favorite examples to show too. Yeah.
Speaker A: Could you click through some of the. Yeah, let's see. What. Okay. I like that they even tied in their product because I think some people try to go, you know, funny or fun, but it doesn't tie back to the product. But they've done such a good job being timely, product related. Um, you know, fun, like they've kind of hit all of those different things. And also simple, like it's only, you know, eight, eight slides. It's not, it's not, you know, Exactly. Like, they could have just done a meme of like,
Speaker B: you know, the McAllisters or something and just kept it at that. It wouldn't have really been linked to their product at all, but it would have gotten them a lot of engagement. Right. Whereas this is a great way to get that engagement, but also actually show what your product is capable of. I think it just strikes a really great balance between entertaining and fun, but also, you know, having an impact for their company. So I love it.
Speaker A: Yeah. Do you have any examples of, like, carousels that didn't go well? Like, maybe at the beginning of your time or something, Maybe to look. You look back and be like, oh, I can see why this didn't perform that well. Because I
Speaker B: think. I
Speaker A: think
Speaker B: I've been lucky in that, you know, the parasols I posted early on taught me a lot about what worked and what didn't. And some of them took off immediately and some didn't. And I could just lean into what worked rather than kind of trying to beat a dead horse and keep doing the same thing. Yeah,
Speaker A: but that's a good point. Like, you kind of just need to put stuff out there sometimes to see what works with your audience and so not being afraid to get it perfect before you posting. So you, everyone. That's always my
Speaker B: biggest piece of advice to people who is, you just need to try as much as many different things as you can. Um, I always say I wish I'd experimented a little bit more at the beginning, but, um, you know, the more you try, you don't know until you try. You need to experiment and see how it performs. But, yeah, this is a carousel that I did early on. And when I say it didn't perform, it was like, it didn't underperform. Like, it's still a decent carousel. Um, but I think this is when I was still figuring out what my niche was. Um, and I did one of these typical, like, if I could only use five tools, this is what I'd use. Um, and I don't think it's a bad carousel in any way. I used some of the kind of techniques that I still employ now, which is bringing a bit of humor, a bit of a meme, um, telling a story. Like, I had this thought, um, and then I went through and I shared some of the tools that I use and what I use them for. Um, not necessarily about carousel. It's. It's designed, okay, it worked. But I think what I. Maybe I stopped doing this kind of content because I realized, you know, what is this actually giving to my audience, what is this helping them do? Is it. If my goal is to kind of provide ideas for content, and if it's for, you know, targeting B2 marketers who want to take more of a risk with content or create content that lands and this feels engaging, what is this giving them? Not much. Um, and also, how many roundups of people's favorite tools have you seen online? Probably a lot. It's not standing out. It's not doing anything unique. Um, and I think even like this, it's quite busy. There's lots of logos and it's like the hook isn't super direct. It's like, if I could only use five tools, it's like, you know, there's nothing there to hook people in and be like, oh, this is for me. Um, so this is probably something that I wouldn't do these days. But I posted it and it taught me that, you know, this kind of content isn't what landed with my audience. So it was important for me to post and to learn what works and what doesn't.
Speaker A: Yeah, okay. So I want to maybe, okay, we don't have to share your screen anymore because I think you shared some really good examples. I want to kind of go to some things that I've, like, observed and kind of ask you more because you've talked a bit about, I guess, your ideation process or like, you kind of started somewhere. And so, like, the first, first, um, ones you showed the great examples, those were maybe more content that was more valuable to your audience. So that could be one thing. Whereas, like, maybe when you're in your early stages, you were just kind of testing things out. So can we go back to the beginning of sort of ideating before you even get to the carousel? And, like, how do you figure out the ideas that are worth, let's say, prioritizing to create a care carousel for? Anyway, so can you just share what you do or maybe what you do with clients? Because I think that would be helpful.
Speaker B: Yeah,
Speaker A: that's where you're gonna start,
Speaker B: I think. It's been seven months now that I've been working with clients. I have realized that the carousels that perform best are always the ones that came from a real conversation or a real debate or someone leaving a comment in my comment section that annoyed me. Um, it's always something that's kind of, you
Speaker A: know,
Speaker B: an organic idea that popped up as a result of a real life conversation, because those are the topics that are actually interesting. Those are the topics that people are genuinely Thinking about and discussing and debating and that's usually what grabs attention in the feed. Whenever I've had a discussion with a client and I push back on something, we've had a little bit of uh, a back and forth. I'm like, oh, this would make a great carousel because people, I'm sure loads of other people are having this conversation too. Um, so whenever I have those kind of lightning strike ideas, I'm like, oh, this would be a good one. I have like a folder that I save all of these little ideas down in and that's like the basis of a really good carousel most of the time.
Speaker A: Yeah. So one of the best carousels I've done and I don't do them very often. I'm going to be doing them more though. I, I will. Which is one of the reasons I wanted to chat with you. But thinking about where these ideas come from, I think my, one of my clients, I was like, send me some selfies. You know, I'm going to help you figure out what selfies you can use to sort of make uh, your content get, you know, stop the scroll and all this stuff. And they just had such a hard time with understanding like what kind of selfies to take. And for me, if you're in social, you just kind of take that for granted because you're just like, just get some selfies of you working at the computer or whatever. You know, you've seen the ones that are on linked. Because we are on LinkedIn way too much. Our clients are not probably. So I created a carousel of how to create selfies for LinkedIn and like, what you should do, what you shouldn't do. And like it was very helpful to my clients. So it was a question they had. I answered that. But also I just said, let me just share this carousel, you know, on uh, LinkedIn. And it performed really well. So I think, you know, obviously listen to your customers, they're always right. But like those things that really come as questions that you might not have even thought is relevant because you're so inside the business that you do pay attention to those. Cause that's what you, you know, that, that goes in your ideas fold, you know, um, it should at least be prioritized when you start to hear those questions or those things that
Speaker B: 100.
Speaker A: Yeah, you may not have thought of yourself. So you can't like brainstorm your way into the.
Speaker B: No, it's
Speaker A: true. And listen, you've got to listen.
Speaker B: Like the funniest example I have of this is like, I think it was a couple. It was last year, I was talking to my dad about how I'd, like, managed to make LinkedIn into my business, and he was a little bit confused about everything. And he was like, so who are you talking to? And I was like, B2B marketers. And he was like, what on earth is B2B? What does that mean? And it kind of just pulled me out of it. I'm m. Like, oh, there's people out there that have no idea what I do or what we talk about, but for us, it's everything. Um, and I ended up making a carousel where it was me sending my dad, like, B2B2B buzzwords and things that we talk about all the time. And he had to guess what it meant, and it went viral. People loved it. People were obsessed.
Speaker A: I love that.
Speaker B: It's so, so funny. So that's another example of a way to use carousels.
Speaker A: Love that. I mean, so I live in Taiwan and. Long story. That's. That's a long story, but I live in Taiwan and Taiwan. LinkedIn is not a thing. And it's not because it's not even a language thing. It's not because of a language. Uh, just the market here, finding jobs is very different. So people don't really need LinkedIn in the ways that, you know, a lot of the rest of the world does. So when I say, you know, I live here, and I'm like, what do you do? You know, LinkedIn? They don't even, like, I have to explain what is LinkedIn. And that's even harder. They're like. I'm like, it's kind of like Facebook and kind of like Instagram. Um, and like, yeah, I sometimes have to do that. And I'm just like, here, I'll just show you. Um, but I definitely get that. Yeah. Um, so thinking back to the things that you shared with me, would you say that there. Is there. Are there patterns or, like, things like, you can say what makes a great carousel, or like, you know, you've decided, you know, you. You really want to give it a go. Things you must keep in mind when you're, you know, in order to make one that will get seen as as much as possible and we'll get those numbers.
Speaker B: Yeah. Usually there's, like, a few elements that are really important to creating a really interesting carousel, but also a carousel that performs as well. And I think, like I mentioned earlier, ah, probably the most important element is the hook. You know, it doesn't matter how great the content you have inside is if people just scroll past because it didn't grab their attention. So I think having a really strong hook that not only grabs attention but also actually is direct, I think a lot of people kind of fall into the trap of like creating a hook that has a lot of mystery. It's like, oh, I had this problem or this happened to me. And just not really being upfront about what the carousel is about. A lot of people, it's like a split second decision as they're scrolling through their feed that how many carousels popped up as they've scrolled, probably like 10 when they're scrolling past it, it's like you have a second to convince them and if you're not giving them enough, they're not going to stop to find out. So I think I find that hooks that are very clear and direct, like this is what this carousel is about, but also done in a bold and attention grabbing way, that's kind of the sweet spot. And then also I think something else that kind of stops the scroll is the visuals. A lot of people will overlook the visuals or like the imagery, but that's a really important visual cue for your audience. Um, so maybe if someone's scrolling really fast, they might not grab the text, but if there's a big bold image that's might stop them and make them read and think, oh, actually, yeah, I do want to scroll through this.
Speaker A: So
Speaker B: don't underestimate, underestimate imagery either. Um, and then I think the most important thing for me in terms of not grabbing attention but maintaining the attention is, like I said, it's having a narrative, having a clear story. When it comes to a carousel, if you kind of click through and people are going off in five different tangents and it feels like you don't really know where this is going or feels a bit scattered, it's easy to just scroll past and think, oh, I don't have the time or the energy to read, figure out what this is about. So you need to make it really easy. You need to guide people through, like you're on a tour, um, and make it really simple for them. So I think having a really good structure, usually most of my carousels have a similar structure. You have the hook, then you have like maybe a bit of an intro, a bit of context setting, and then you go into kind of like a list of examples or a list of tips, or like, you know, telling the full story. So, and then having like the end, like the CTA slide at the end, kind of trying to keep it's like telling a story. You need a beginning, middle and end. And it needs to kind of have narrative flow. Otherwise all that work that you did with the hook to kind of bring people in, it's going to go to waste because they're going to give up and just scroll past. So I would say those are kind of the main elements that I would really focus on.
Speaker A: So in addition to carousels like gen, specifically, I'd like to ask you a few general questions. Just, you know, as you work with clients, what are some of the, I guess, what are some of the obstacles that you work with them on to overcome in order to just even be posting on social? Because I think I also face a lot of those challenges. Um, I don't do coaching directly. I do like done for you and sort of positioning and larger marketing strategy. But I feel that there are some obstacles that people have. So I'm wondering if you experience those two with your clients. Like, um, again, like fear of being judged so they don't want to post certain things or fear of saying the right thing or those kinds of things. Does that come up and like, how do you deal with that? Honestly,
Speaker B: I'm very lucky in that the clients that I work with are very bought in to LinkedIn and the power of LinkedIn and what it has to offer. Um, and most of them work in marketing or they've been creators themselves or they, you know, they get it. So
Speaker A: I
Speaker B: don't have to do a lot of work to convince them to try something. Oftentimes the kind of the barriers are time. Um, you know, most of the people I work with, they're founders, they're running businesses, they're really busy people. And if I'm creating content for their, like, founder page, it's having like the time to sit them down and ask them questions. How are you feeling? What do you think about this? What ideas came up for you this week? What conversations happened with your clients that could turn into an interesting post? You know, because I, I am not that person. I have my ideas of what would work really well. But as you probably know, like, when it comes to founder and personal brand content, your own thoughts and your own experiences are what make the best content. So oftentimes it's like finding a way to tap into their brain and find time to sit them down and talk to them. Or if not, I found the best way that we can get around it is I say to them, like, send me everything you have. Every doesn't have to be neat or tidy or organized. If you Have a random idea as you're walking down the street. Send me a voice note if you, if you had like a internal workshop that you think like, I might find interesting or be able to pull something out of, send me the slides, you know, send me anything and I'm like, kind of like a funnel and I'll turn it into something that could make good content. So learning how to work with busy people doing lots of things has been challenging because, you know, I came from an in house background while I was in the company and I lived and breathed the brand and I knew everything that was going on and I could just go and talk to someone if I needed, like help with something or if I needed to ask a question. Whereas working remotely with people that are all doing different things and running businesses, it's like, that's usually the challenge for me is being able to tap into their brains and get those fresh ideas all the time.
Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I will be curious if you ever do encounter that, because I actually, I mean, I work with founders and marketers too, but I feel like, because this is very, very personal, as I mentioned, like, this is usually your brand. So I'm not talking about the people who are behind the brand. I'm talking about people whose personal brand is posting. Usually like as the strategist, you're like, hey, I want to post this. But usually the thing that you want to post the most could be a vulnerable thing. It could be something that I don't say makes them look bad, but it's not maybe the thing that makes them look great because they're talking about like a challenge or a mistake or something. So those are some of the things that I've, I've encountered. And I think it's interesting because you kind of need the, it's. You have to trust each other and you have to be willing to grow and to be seen. Because the whole point of LinkedIn is like, you want to be seen. And so some, some of your most vulnerable things could go viral and that means a lot of people could see those, those ideas and those stories. So those are some of the things I was referring to. Maybe as you have, you know, in your journey, if you ever. No,
Speaker B: I honestly,
Speaker A: I think
Speaker B: that the founders I've worked with have been super open m to be experimental and to try new things. Um,
Speaker A: and, um, you know,
Speaker B: like, no, they
Speaker A: don't take it as personally. Like, they see it as like a, uh.
Speaker B: Exactly. And
Speaker A: I think also
Speaker B: maybe like my own personal style of LinkedIn is, I'm, I Don't really share a lot about my personal life or I don't really open up too much when it comes to, you know, things happening. And I tend to kind of. I still tap into those emotions, but it's mainly more about the work. And same with the clients that I work with. The most vulnerable I get
Speaker A: is
Speaker B: about expressing, like, things that are frustrating me or, you know, what it's like transitioning into freelance work. And same with my clients. What is it like growing a business? And what have you kind of already struggled with? Um, and I've been very lucky that, you know, most of the clients I've met, I've worked with have been people who found me through LinkedIn or at an event or, you know, people who I know. And so I've been very lucky that the people I've worked with were kind of very of the same, same mindset and I don't have to convince them to do something.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: I know
Speaker A: how lucky
Speaker B: I am.
Speaker A: I do. I mean, I definitely agree with you, like, getting buy in. Well, anyway, they shouldn't. If they don't buy in, they shouldn't be working with you anyway. Like, if it's an uphill battle, I guess. But I guess I'm just, you know, touching into the thing. This is, this is very personal work. Um, in a way that if it is a B2B brand, I think it can be less personalized, so. Because, you know, because personal brands are there. Yeah, it's like there's a line for some people and like, you don't, like you don't share about your personal life and that's. I don't think that it matters actually, in terms of the things that perform well. I think you can be very business focused. Right. But I think, yeah, I think you. Everyone has a different line. Some people love to share about their kids online, some people don't. Like. Yeah, everyone has a different line. And I think just figure out what works to you. So when someone asked me recently, should I do anything, you know, should I say something outrageous just to go viral? Right. Some founder was asking me and I was like, if it's not. I mean, first of all, if it's not related to your product in any way, that's not going to help you. You, if you just say some, you know, say something ridiculous. And I would say, honestly, it had. It also has to be based on something that you believe a little bit. Like it has to be sort of true, um, or you can't maintain that facade for very long. So I think that's some of the deeper work, I think, of this stuff. We're talking about carousels, and those are a little bit more tactical things, but some of the more strategic things, you know, they have to be. They have to be authentic to you. It has to be, you know, specific enough to your business that there's some correlation. So, yeah, I think this work is very interesting because there's tactical stuff, which you need, but you also need the strategy. You need both pieces to make.
Speaker B: Yeah. Something
Speaker A: that has
Speaker B: been interesting for me, like. Sorry, were you about to
Speaker A: get
Speaker B: some Ross?
Speaker A: Oh, no, no, I just. Yeah, no, I think
Speaker B: it's interesting
Speaker A: what
Speaker B: you say about, like, wanting to kind of almost rage bait to go viral or like a lot of. I've had a few conversations with people who kind of felt that pressure that if they weren't going viral, then the strategy wasn't working, or feeling as if, like, they had to do these things. They weren't super comfortable, didn't come naturally to them. But if they wanted to go viral, then maybe they'd have to. I think it's been interesting, like, having these conversations with clients and realizing that actually virality isn't really what they want. Sure, you could have a post, go super viral on LinkedIn, get loads of likes and loads of comments. Um, but would any of those people turn into clients? Probably not. And we always kind of. We try and find this balance of what I call, like, the sin content and the thick content. So the thin content is like the memes, the kind of. The more relatable, highly shareable stuff that tends to go more viral. It's a bit lighter and it.
Speaker A: That is the social stuff. Exactly. Selfie. Like, I went like. It's like, it casts a wide net
Speaker B: and it brings in lots of people, but it's the thicker content that is more specific to your niche that's actually highly valuable and savable. And that, you know, convinces people that, oh, actually this might be a company that I want to work with. That's the kind of stuff that's thicker and m. It might not bring as many people in, but it'll keep more people. It'll help you find the right people. So we try and find a balance between those two.
Speaker A: I think it's a great way.
Speaker B: Yeah,
Speaker A: it's like a portfolio. You need sort of. You kind of need the occasional meme just to be light and get lots of visibility, but you also need the real stuff. And so, yeah, I like to tell people the same thing. Like you. It's not like you're only aiming for one. You need a portfolio. You need carousels and infographics and text posts and I think you need all of them. You figure out what works for you and then you keep doing those things that work for you. And I can tell you, working with different clients, it's not the same formula for A, that works for B, it just isn't. And it's very. Yeah, it's. You try and experiment and then, yeah, just follow what works. So, um, well, Amy, this has been so much fun. I learned a lot. Um, I'm excited to continue following you on LinkedIn. So I've been following you for a while and finally got a chance to hear from you. Is there any, like, final thought you have about carousels, LinkedIn marketing? Good
Speaker B: question.
Speaker A: To share.
Speaker B: I think I have. Just reading my notes of what I wrote down. I think if you're someone who Maybe is in B2B or in any, any industry and you're thinking you want to start carousels. I think a lot of people make the mistake when it comes to carousels of thinking about what they want to say as opposed to what their audience wants to read. So I think, you know, instead of looking at it and like, oh, we have this product launch and so we need to, we need to do a carousel that, let's make it about this, that's not likely to perform. You're not thinking about what does my audience actually want to consume, what's going to entertain them, what's to interest them, what's going to make them care? Um, and I think as soon as you make that kind of switch in your mind is usually when the carousels start becoming actually good, good content that people are interested in and want to read. So that's always kind of my biggest piece of advice. And then the other one that I have was if your carousel starts with three ways to do X, scrap it and start again, do something else. Just don't do
Speaker A: it, don't do it, don't do it.
Speaker B: Yeah,
Speaker A: okay.
Speaker B: I think,
Speaker A: ah,
Speaker B: yeah, that's all I have. And also I think just think about when it comes to CTAs, and I think a lot of people in B2B especially feel the need to make, always make the CTA, you know, book a demo, come to our website, do this, do this, we need this. That's not what a carousel should do. The point of a carousel isn't to funnel people into your, you know, lead magnet system. It's the point of a carousel is to entertain, to inform, to educate. To inspire. The whole point is that it should be a fully formed thing within that carousel. It should be the full experience. If you need to ship someone off somewhere else to read the rest of it, they're not going to go. So always think about the full experience of a carousel and what people are going to gain from that, just from reading it. Those are the carousels that always kind of stick in my mind, and they're the ones that tend to perform m best.
Speaker A: Absolutely. Like, the content itself should be all there. Like the whole message, the whole story. Yeah, I agree. No matter. Even if it's a text post or an infographic. I think the same applies. The content itself should have. And I wouldn't necessarily say one message, but I kind of think about like that you should be able to say in a sentence, like, what is this about? And I think sometimes that helps. When you're stuck on any format of content, sometimes you feel stuck. You're like, can I even say what this is about? If you can't do that, that kind of shows you you might have some more. Exactly. Or even
Speaker B: what's the purpose? What's
Speaker A: the point
Speaker B: of this is, Is it to teach someone something? Is it to make. Give them an idea? Is it to make them feel seen? You know, if you don't have that kind of end goal in mind, then that's when you tend to kind of lose direction of where you're going. So I think always having that in mind of what can someone gain from reading this.
Speaker A: Exactly, exactly, exactly. With your audience in mind. So again, we'll leave on that note. Yes. Always think of your audience first. Customer first. Yes. Or just go ask them or listen to your calls. I use granola. There's lots of other, like, meeting note kind of recorders, but like, you know, go back through that and just start mining through some of the things you've said. And that's probably where the best content ideas are.
Speaker B: Thanks so much,
Speaker A: Amy. Take care. Thank you so much.
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