Make Music · 2026-03-30 · 16 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
34 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Indie Roots - a collective of independent artists with 700,000+ combined monthly Spotify listeners - explores how diversifying your production palette enhances songwriting and arrangement without necessarily requiring expensive gear. Ian Austin shares practical experiments: converting beater guitars into Nashville-tuned instruments (high-strung guitars similar to those on Noah Kahn's 'Stick Season') and DIY dobros using nut lifters, both costing minimal money. The hosts discuss the psychological value of real instruments over virtual instruments, even when listeners can't distinguish them aurally - the tangible inspiration drives more experimentation and passion that translates intangibly into finished tracks. William outlines his pre-loaded MIDI template in Logic (kick drum, bass, pads, piano) to streamline workflow while maintaining creative flexibility, and advocates for constraint-based creativity: experimenting with alternative guitar tunings like drop D or DADGAD as cost-free ways to unlock new songwriting directions. The episode concludes with encouragement to break production 'rules' - using unconventional techniques like phone memo recordings or elbow percussion on guitar bodies - since professional producers regularly do the same. Ideal for indie artists seeking to expand their sonic options affordably and increase creative inspiration.
Nashville tuning involves combining the high strings from a 12-string guitar with standard guitar strings to create a higher-octave effect similar to placing a capo on the 12th fret; it's audible on Noah Kahn's 'Stick Season' and can be created by retuning two cheap guitars you already own.
Use a nut lifter (a metal piece placed over the guitar's nut) to raise the strings at least half an inch above the frets, then install lower gauge strings and play with a slide like a traditional dobro.
Start with a standard drum kit, MIDI bass, pads, and a virtual piano - these core elements provide quick access to foundational sounds while leaving space for recorded acoustic instruments and vocals.
Alternative tunings like drop D or DADGAD make the guitar unfamiliar territory, which forces exploration and creative problem-solving that standard tuning might not enable.
Most listeners cannot distinguish a real piano from a high-quality piano plugin, but real instruments inspire the artist to experiment more passionately, and that intangible difference comes through in the finished recording.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode contains some practical tips (Nashville tuning, dobro conversion, alternative guitar tunings, template setup in Logic) but is heavily padded with meandering conversation, tangential discussions about elbow placement, and extended metaphors about exploration that don't add actionable knowledge. Most insights are surface-level familiarity-building rather than novel or non-obvious claims.
going out of your way to get a new real, uh, instrument I think is more inspiring than getting another plugin
each song I can kind of follow one rabbit trail, you know, and try to experiment with something new
The core ideas - using physical instruments for inspiration, experimenting with guitar tunings, creating production templates - are well-established in producer education. The framing of 'breaking rules' and 'following intuition' is generic advice repeated across countless production podcasts. There is no contrarian thinking, first-principles reasoning, or fresh perspective on production workflow.
The right way to do it is, you know, there are standard ways, but there are standard ways because people experimented
if it sounds good, break all the rules
The hosts (Indie Roots collective with ~700k monthly Spotify listeners) have relevant indie music production experience and credibility. However, this is a peer discussion among band members rather than an interview with a differentiated expert or senior practitioner who has accomplished something specific and teachable at scale. The framing as 'coaching services' suggests they are positioning themselves as educators, but the transcript doesn't demonstrate expertise beyond typical indie artist knowledge.
I'm Ian Austin. I'm joined by my co hosts William Toll and Haddon. We are Indie Roots, a team of independent artists with, give or take, 700,000 monthly listeners combined
we do offer coaching services
There are some specific examples: Nashville tuning, Noah Khan's 'Stick Season', dobro conversion technique, drop D and DADGAD tunings, Logic template setup. However, no concrete data, metrics, or outcomes are provided. No specifics on what the coaching actually teaches, no before/after results, no named producer case studies beyond a vague reference to 'pro amazing producers.' The examples are illustrative but lack depth or evidence of impact.
if you listen to Noah Khan song Stick Season, there's definitely some high strung guitars in there
I did one song in drop D
The conversation is rambling and unfocused. There are few sharp questions; instead, speakers interrupt each other with tangential observations (e.g., a 5-minute digression about elbow placement on a guitar). The host does not push back on claims or invite deeper reasoning. The discussion lacks structure and productive disagreement - it's more like friends chatting casually than a purposeful interview designed to extract and test ideas.
Wait, what does beaters mean?
Wait, what part of your elbow was it? Was it like the tip of the bone or was it like
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Want your music to stand out in a crowded, algorithm-driven world? In this episode, we explore how refining your production palette can elevate your sound, spark creativity, and help you stay unique as an artist. It’s easy to fall into repetitive habits - same sounds, same plugins, same arrangements. But the artists who grow are the ones who keep expanding their production toolkit and staying curious. By introducing new textures, instruments, and techniques, you can keep exploration alive and create music that feels fresh and distinct. We dive into: What it really means to refine your production palette How adding new sounds and tools can unlock creativity Avoiding repetitive production habits that hold your music back Simple ways to develop a more unique sonic identity Why experimentation is key to long-term growth as a producer Whether you're a producer, songwriter, or independent artist, this episode will help you push past creative limits and build a sound that truly stands out. Indie Roots is a production company started by Haddon, William Toll, and Ian Austin. We're all independent artists and have approximately 700k combined monthly listeners on Spotify.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Hey, I'm Ian Austin. I'm joined by my co hosts William Toll and Haddon. We are Indie Roots, a team of independent artists with, give or take, 700,000 monthly listeners combined, uh, on Spotify. And today we're talking about adding different instruments to your producer toolkit. But before we get into that, we do offer coaching services. Um, this is one on one zoom calls, coaching, uh, advice, um, calls we can do with you. We just want to level people up and bring them to a place where they're fully DIY and with uh, their artistry and they can have a thriving career. If you would like to hire us for that, please reach out at indie roots llcmail.com all right, let's talk about adding to your production arsenal. Sounds like a military thing. Uh, recently I, I have two beater guitars I had laying around and I decided to turn them into different instruments.
Speaker B: Wait, what does beaters mean?
Speaker A: Oh, like it's like a cheap like $100 guitar that doesn't sound good. I probably wouldn't use it to record on its own. And plus I don't really need a duplicate guitar. And so what I did is I ordered. I don't know if you guys have heard of this thing. It's called Nashville tuning. But it's basically, it's like taking half the strings from a 12 string guitar, like the high strings, and then like half the strings are like normal guitar. And it's, it's kind of like a higher octave guitar. Um, it's kind of similar if you were to put your capo on the 12th fret, it kind of sounds like that, but not fully. But um, yeah, I, I did that and it's really cool. If you listen to, if you listen to Noah Khan song Stick Season, there's definitely some high strung guitars in there, I think on the left and right or just one left.
Speaker C: Um, um.
Speaker A: And yeah, it sounds really cool. And that. And one, one of the points of this episode is I just want to say that going out of your way to get a new real, uh, instrument I think is more inspiring than getting another plugin. And uh, yeah. And then another thing I did was I made a dobro out of a cheap guitar and I just got this thing, it's called like a nut lifter or something. And it's this metal piece that goes over the nut and it lifts it. So now the strings are probably like a half inch or more off of the frets. And so I just take a slide and I can play. Um, it like you would a dobro and uh, that was really cheap. I just had to buy lower gauge strings so it sounds more dobro y. And uh, yeah, I've just been really inspired by having, you know, new, pretty inexpensive new instruments and uh. Yeah. Is that all there, guys? Yeah, I think so. Go ahead.
Speaker C: I think whatever you can do to increase inspiration, I mean that's key. Um, because I know that if I use a piano plugin versus a, you know, recording a real piano, most, the vast majority of people won't know the difference. But um, if it inspires you as an artist, that's just gonna, um, facilitate more experimentation and you know, more, uh. Yeah, just more trial and error and more passion and. And so I definitely think it's. Yeah, it makes it worth it because that'll come out in an intangible way. Um, and also one thing that can really help is just uh, creating a palette as a producer so that you have a quicker workflow and um, you know. So like, I have a lot of my own, uh, samples that I like to go to. Um, I kind of have an idea each song of like, what instruments I'm going to add. And then my general rule of thumb is like, each song I can kind of follow one rabbit trail, you know, and try to experiment with something new. Um, but yeah, I think in general like getting new instrument or, you know, we. We like collect plugins and they may not always make like a quality difference, but they just increase novelty and inspiration, which you always need to have those things, I think, to, to make music that you're really passionate about.
Speaker B: So yeah, yeah, I think, um, there's something to be said about exploration as a way of kind of um, finding new and interesting like directions to take a musical creation in a lot of times, you know, using the same tool over and over again, you kind of run out of ways to use that. And even if, like, let's say, like for me for instance, I don't have all these. I don't have all these different instruments. I have a pretty limited arsenal. And um, and I, I enjoy trying to make the most of those. Those limited supplies. I don't really have that craving to. I. I mean, I do, I do to some extent, but there is, There is a value in. Limit in. In um, in trying to make the most of a limited situation. Um, so I've been enjoying that. And I think that even like, even if like you. Okay, let's say you just have one guitar and you know, and the rest is going to be midi, um, and you've got an Acoustic guitar and your voice, and you're going to record those into a mic and the rest is midi. Well, with the acoustic guitar, you can explore with different tuning, um, patterns. Like, I do most of my stuff in standard tuning, but I did one song in drop D and like, just. Just like grabbing the. Just for like a songwriting, um, thing. If you're stuck. If you're trying to write a song, you're stuck. Maybe just put it in drop D and now you've got a different kind of energy going. And that can. That can release some of the creative. Stop, Um, I guess clots in the creative process. Um, you know, and then do another one. Do like, what's, uh, the. What's the one that's called, like. It's like dad Fab, um, tuning. Dad Gad. Yeah. And, uh, that one's a really nice tuning. Like, and you can just experiment with it and explore it. And when you're. When you're on the precipice of the unknown, that's like the. The epitome of exploration. You know, when you're. You think of. You think of, you know, old, old world, um, expeditioners, they would go out into the unknown. They would. They would speculate as to what's out there, but they wouldn't really know. And they would just go and. And figure it out. And, you know, that's the same. It's the same thing on a smaller and less dangerous scale. Um, even with something as simple as just changing the guitar tuning now, it's like you're a lot less familiar with this territory, but it's going. But the unfamiliarity is going to allow you to explore in a way that you otherwise wouldn't be able to. And that can create a real creative breakthrough sometimes. Um, but I do, I will say lastly that the limited arsenal I have is. Is kind of frustrating sometimes. Like, I. I will, like, have to borrow a banjo from a friend. Um, and. And like, if I want banjo on a song. And, um. And, uh. And I do really want one of the. Those soprano guitars, Ian, that you have, because I, I really would love to be able to just put mandolin on any of my songs whenever I feel like it needs it. Um, and I don't have that capability. I would have to go borrow one from a friend again. It's just, like, nice to have. So I do feel like I have a palette in my mind that is limited in reality. So that's kind of frustrating. Um, and I do want to expand that palette at some point. But right now my palette Is like, mostly like, I have a MIDI palette. Like, if I open, I have a template in Logic that includes, um, certain virtual instruments already loaded. And so I have like a drum kit, just a standard drum kit loaded. Um, I have, I have like a MIDI bass, um, instrument loaded. I have, I have like an.
Speaker A: I'm mad at you. MIDI bass is the.
Speaker B: Well, it's just for demo purposes. And I have a, like, at the top of all this stuff is like a, is a, is a audio recording, um, track. So it's all ready to go. Just like press the record button and make sure you, you know, your interface and your mics are on and stuff and you're good to go start recording. Um, and. And so, yeah, that, that'll take my recordings for acoustic guitar and vocals and whatever other instruments I have, including, you know, electric bass. Um, but, yep, other stuff. Like pads. Like, I use pads in my songs a lot. A lot of folk songs have pads just like that atmosphere in the background. Like one pad preloaded. I have, um. Um, yeah, and there's a few other things like a MIDI piano. Just one MIDI piano preloaded, um, virtual piano plugin. And so I feel like that's my palette for, um, making my. Just getting the feel for what. Where I'm going in my, In a song. When I start producing it, I record it on the, uh, acoustic guitar. I'll sing a scratch vocal. And now I've got the basics and I'm going to start filling in the gaps by pulling up those preloaded plugins from my palette and just being like, okay, boom, click. Now I got my kick going. Where's the kick gonna come? Um, that's usually the first move I do and then I just kind of go from there. But yeah,
Speaker A: yeah, I wanna encourage you guys. Not YouTube, but all of our peeps listening. Um, I wanna encourage you guys to experiment and don't be afraid of breaking the rules. I think when I, especially when I first was learning production, I just felt kind of like hindered because I was like, well, what's the right way to do it? I want to be professional at this. And what I've realized is there's actually no right way to do it, though. The right way to do it is, you know, there are standard ways, but there are only standard ways because people experimented and they found, oh, this sounds good. And so then it sounded so good that it's now become like a rule or principle. But there's no, like, eternal, like, rule to do, do anything. Um, and I've, I've Seen pro, like amazing producers where they will take parts of the phone memo and use it as like in the actual final recording. Like there's this one guy, the, the one, one of the members of the band, he was making like a rough draft phone memo and he did this like. And it was like he took the phone recording and put in that in the intro of the song. And it was like kind of the thing in the song. And it's like that doesn't sound like amazing audio quality, but it's like the vibe. And there's this example, uh, where I wanted to get like a guitar hit, um, as like kind of like a snare drum, but it's going to be guitar, um, percussion thing. And I was like, I just couldn't get the sound right so I just like use my elbow and. And I made a sample out of my elbow hitting the guitar and it's like that sounded good. That's not. There's no rule against using your elbow. You can do whatever you want. So just follow your intuition. If it sounds good, break all the rules.
Speaker B: Wait, what part of your elbow was it? Was it like the tip of the bone or was it like. It was like fatty part.
Speaker A: No, like the fatty part.
Speaker B: Muscular. Of course. All muscle.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course, bro. Yeah, the. Me using my fingers on the guitar, it just sounded too bright and snappy and I wanted more like a. It was like having a really tight, crispy snare versus like a beefy snare. And I wanted more of that beefy snare. And that's why I use my, my beefy elbow.
Speaker B: But you did it as a, as a snare sound is.
Speaker A: It wasn't actually. It was like I was singing like if this is like a folk snare, like if drums. If drums didn't exist but you still wanted a drum kit noise. I'm just going to use like my, like my elbow as like a fake folk snare.
Speaker B: Interesting. Against the body or against the strings?
Speaker A: Not against the strings.
Speaker B: Mean. That's a little too experimental. If you hit your elbow against the body of the guitar. I'm thinking more like that's kind of like a mid range kick.
Speaker A: No, like, I'm not saying, I'm not saying it's supposed to sound like a snare. I'm saying it's gonna fulfill the same role as a snare. You know, I'm saying.
Speaker B: No, I don't see that because why would this. Why would your like in terms of like where the snare is showing up on an eq like the most where is it? Where's it gonna be?
Speaker C: Like, let me get this guitar real quick.
Speaker B: One. Like one.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: Thank you.
Speaker B: That. That helps. But like a snare. If you hit a snare, like the drum. If you look, if you were to look at that on an eq, where's the. Where are the fundamental frequencies of that snare?
Speaker A: That, with the fundamental frequency is going to be at like 200 of a snare.
Speaker B: Oh, I thought that much higher.
Speaker A: Here, uh, here. This is. This is what I did. It was like, like, it was like, oh, I can't.
Speaker B: Okay, okay.
Speaker A: It's just like, it's.
Speaker B: Oh, Tom goes Frazier got my camera.
Speaker A: No, it's just supposed to be like a smack. And so I'm not trying to replicate a snare. I'm trying to. You know how, like, people clap on two and four. That's kind of doing what a snare would do.
Speaker B: So. Okay. Yeah, I was. Because I was envisioning. Because, you know when, um, when you're playing an acoustic show or maybe you're at a writers round, a lot of times, like, someone can try. Someone can kind of accompany you with a kick sound by just like hitting the body of the guitar with their wrist. You know how that.
Speaker C: Yeah, like this, like kick.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And I thought that that's what you were doing, but just with your elbow.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: How is that a snare? I'm glad we're able to work that out.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: Awesome. Well, I think we can end it there we are. Indie roots. Um, please reach out to us for coaching, consulting stuff. Don't forget to like and comment and subscribe to the podcast and leave us a five star rating. And if you find it valuable and interesting, consider sharing it with a friend and we'll see you on the next episode.
Speaker C: Bye.
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