How to Adapt to Changing Algorithms

Speaker A: Hey, I'm Ian Austin. I'm joined by my co hosts William Toll and Haddon. We are a indie Roots, a team of independent artists with, give or take, 700,000 monthly listeners combined on Spotify. And today we are talking about, uh, I don't even know. It's like, what do we do in response to the algorithm changing? Or what do we do in the response of like, the AI age? How can artists still survive? It's kind of like a part two. If you watch our last episode, this is part two. Uh, before we get into that though, we do offer coaching services. This is one on one, um, zoom calls we can do with you, where we just want to transfer all of our skills and knowledge to you so that you can, uh, have a career, um, as an indie artist. If you'd like to hire us for that, please reach out@indieroutes llcmail.com and we'd love to hear from you. Okay, let's talk about, let's talk about part two. Do one of you want to kind of summarize what we talked about real quick and then we can get to the next one? Don't. Me too.

Speaker B: I'm looking at you, Ben. A lot of pressure. Um, yeah. So in the last episode, um, we talked about how AI has the capability of producing so much music in such a short amount of time. And so Ian mentioned a statistic of 70,000 songs a day that are being uploaded to the streaming platforms just by AI artists, um, quote, unquote artists. Um, and so we were just talking about, like, the problems that that introduces and how it's affecting our streaming numbers and a good amount of speculation, but definitely worth the conversation about, is this changing the algorithm? Is this, um, or is it just simply a matter of watering down the amount of songs or. No, no. Making so many songs that the, that it waters down the actual listeners, um, so that every song gets like, just less streams. So we discussed those problems a little bit and then towards the end we were sort of starting to talk about, well, how can you address this? And we've talked about this in the past as far as, like, you know, one way is to emerge as a top artist. That way you can compete with the AI, um, and, uh, reach, reach the people, even though there's a whole lot of competition. And on the other hand, this is more Ian's thing, uh, you know, the thousand fan rule, like not even competing with this whole system and just saying, well, if I can just find a thousand true fans, then I don't need to even like be online basically or be on uh, the major services, uh, and get watered down by the, by the preponderance of AI and stuff. So we're kind of at a fork in the road and we wanted to continue the discussion.

Speaker C: Mhm. Yeah. My mindset is more so, um, that when I listen to some of the top artists or artists that have achieved the destination that I aspire to get to, um, I just hear a noticeable gap in the quality really it's just skill stacking across all the different elements. Stronger melodies, stronger um, mixing. And I've noticed that you know, for the top artists it's like you're going on a journey each song and

Speaker A: they

Speaker C: um, really, I don't know, capitalize on one emotion. And um, and so I would like to achieve that level of craft and art, um, regardless. I mean that's just, I just want to be excellent um, at what I do. And um, it has nothing to do with playing an algorithmic competition. I just think we all ought to achieve that excellent level of uh, of work. And I, I just think if, if when you're at that level, um, that's all I'm talking about, you will get the streams and you won't, you'll no longer be competing with the AI because AI is the definition of mediocrity, you know, and a lot of artists music, uh, I even unfortunately have released some mediocre music and I just want to release amazing music that. It's like your analogy, Ian. Um, if you're standing on a hill, it's just the firework just stands out from the rest because it's just super colorful and coolest pattern, the tallest and um. So, so that, that's my strategy. Um, and uh, yeah, I'd like to hear what, what you all think about that.

Speaker B: Well, real quick, I was just going to. I was just noticing that ties nicely into a prior episode when we discussed the proverb of he who is excellent in his craft will stand before kings. And, and I'm a Christian, I believe that the Bible is uh, the word of God. And so I see that proverb and I'm thinking, well if that's true, then none of this algorithmic chatter really, really does make a difference or matter in the end. It makes a difference of course. But yeah, it gives a lot of uh, power to what you're saying, Ben, about just. This is, this is about being, this is about devoting yourself to your craft and, and just being the, being the best craftsman you can be and writing the best songs and, and Bringing out the potential of those songs with, with really good and, and you know, well thought through production, um, and being genuine and reaching a genuine audience. Like, I think, I do think that that will beat AI. I think AI is scary. Um, it's like this, like this monster demon, like cloud of darkness that's on the horizon and it's like ready to attack us. And it's scary. But like, you know, I do think that genuine, uh, like genuinely think that human beings can create more original and interesting music. Um, and so if, if you do, if you do just devote yourself and just try to block out the noise and be like, you know what? I'm making the best music. I. And if it's God's plan, then I will rise and I'll be able to make a living. Whether that's because I blew up so much that nobody could ignore me, uh, even amongst the AI, or whether that means he provided you with the right fans and the right audience that was committed and devoted and uh, ready to support you. Um, outside of just streaming, um, I think that both options are possibilities and um. But the, but the common thread is like, you just gotta focus on your craft and make it the best you can. I really do love that. I think it provides my spirit a lot of rest. Just kind of bringing it back to that. It's about songwriting and capturing something deep and true and musically beautiful. And um. And we can get really tied up with like the marketing stuff and the algorithm stuff. Um, because that's, that's ultimately, ultimately does play a big part in how we end up making a living. Um. But, but yeah, focus on, focus on the craft, I guess.

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, I, I keep, uh. I've been glazing this guy a lot. But um, Abe Parker, he, uh, the song he released, like, um. It's called Jesus Glow. If anyone's chicken, if anyone wants to check it out. But it. You've never even listened to it. But you know the chorus, because he's like promoted it so much. Yeah. Um, but it's just so human. And I was listening to it and it was, I was encouraged because I was thinking like AI couldn't touch this with like a 10 foot pole, you know? Yeah, agreed. I, I just want to bypass this competition completely. You know, Rise above it. Yeah.

Speaker B: And the way he's. He's been. He's basically writing it. He wrote it like with his fans. Like that was really cool to see. Uh, he released it as a chorus idea and then, and then people loved it and he was like, yo, I still need to write the verses. And. And then people were commenting and he was reposting their comments. They were all kind of brainstorming the vision of the song together. And it was this big collaborative thing. Like, there's no. That's a kind of magic that AI. I don't see a way that AI can capture that.

Speaker C: And Ian, I know you don't necessarily. You're not going to say, oh, I disagree with what you guys are saying about focusing on the craft. So. But I know. So I know you do agree in some sense, but you have a different take slightly. So, like, what. What is your take?

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I will say I agree with. You should be the best you possibly. Well, I actually do have a caveat, but I think you should excel in your craft and you shouldn't just try to do mediocre work. Um, and that. That verse is definitely true in proverbs. If you excel at your craft, you'll stand before kings. But I think the. The caveat I'm putting in there is, what does it mean to excel in the landscape of. There's already so many established artists. Does excelling mean you're like, Adele level? Or you're like. Because, okay, I just think of this analogy. There's only, like 400 or something spots in the NBA. So if there was a guy that was trying to be in the NBA, how would he apply that verse to himself? What would it mean for him to excel? Well, if he wants to. If he wants to get in the NBA, he's got to be better than at least one other person in the NBA, because he's got to knock that person out. And so when we think about if I'm competing against Adele and, uh, Justin Bieber, Ed Sheeran and all those people, and I want to get to the top, that means I have to be better than them, because either someone's gonna listen to Ed Sheeran or they're gonna listen to me. And, um. And maybe, maybe on a way smaller scale, maybe just talk about the 1 million monthly listener people. But still, it's like, you gotta be better than the 1 million monthly listener people. And it's like, I just feel like it's like if you're competing in that sphere, then that verse is almost like, if you're at Olympian level in your craft, you'll. You'll stand out among the crowd. But I think that changes depending on the context. If you're talking about, like, a carpenter back in, like, 2000 BC, well, there's not, like, that much competition so, like, the. The level for him standing out is way lower, but I just think since it's so saturated, the level is way higher. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker C: M. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think there's a huge scale in modern music. There's a lot of artists, but there's also a lot of people and a lot of people that can listen and appreciate your craft. So, like, just. Just like the Carpenter would have a lower amount of competition, he would also have a lower amount of, like, you know, quote unquote kings that. That would be able to advance him and appreciate his craft. But now we have a global streaming service, and so, you know, I guess all it takes for. For that verse to become true in our lives is for some. For some prominent. Some real prominent person to hear it and invite you to feast with him.

Speaker A: Yeah. So kind of this whole. This whole thing is the middle class is eroding, at least in the streaming world, where if you want to make it in streaming, you kind of have to be at the top or at least relatively top. Like, I, uh, don't know, 500,000 or more or 1 million or more. I don't know. Um, but I'm thinking if I don't want to compete in a world where the middle class can't exist, I just want to move to a different world where the middle class can exist. And I think that's a thing with having, uh, a bottom of the funnel, like substack or Patreon or wherever. So the analogy I was given last time was either you could compete in the sphere where all the fireworks are going off and in order to get attention, you need to be the biggest firework, or you could just host your own show and you have all the attention on you and you're not like, competing. The problem is, how do you get people to that one show? Um, and I'm proposing what if. Okay, because you guys are saying in order to get those people to the bottom of the funnel, you need to have a huge top of funnel. So you need like millions of people on Spotify if you want to get, like those thousand people that are really committed. And I think that's probably true. Spotify, because I think Spotify is a bad top of funnel. You could have like a million monthly listeners. But it's hard. How are you gonna get those people over? Um, you're just hoping they click because it's. You can't put links in your thing. You can't. It's hard to connect with your fans. But I'm thinking if you could find a better type of funnel, you would need, you would need less exposure on the top end. You would have better conversion rates so you wouldn't need to get as big. It just lowers the bar and is taking an alternative path. And that alternative path to me is, I'm thinking YouTube would be a better top of funnel. I think, um, I think, let's just say scenario A is like Spotify. They have, you have a million monthly listeners and like 1% of them convert over or 0.5% finally go to Patreon. But what if you, you could get that same amount of people over to Patreon on YouTube but you only had 50,000 subscribers and then maybe, I don't know, 5% or 10% convert or something. I just think that's a way easy, that's an easier path, that's more realistic to me.

Speaker B: Yeah, potentially, yeah. There's a lot of different things, a lot of different ways to kind of approach that. And I think the bottom line is kind of just diversifying and you know, we can't tell the future. We don't know what's gonna happen. We talked in the past about how, you know, maybe the, you know, the AI thing is one problem, but the, the other problem is something we talked about in a few episodes ago, which is like just the potential death of the streaming model in general. Um, so there's all these sorts of scary, you know, hypothetical situations that seem very plausible and credible. People are predicting bad things. Like the bottom line I think is there's always this common rule is diversification of income. Um, and so we've been working on the streams, but also work on that mailing list or um, that bottom of funnel, um, whatever the bottom of funnel that you choose and have some sort of hedge against shifting industry landscapes. Um, but yeah, we could probably land it there. Uh, feel free to um, reach out to us for consulting, coaching. Leave a like and a comment and subscribe to the podcast and leave a five star rating. If you find the content valuable, please share it with a friend and we'll see you on the next episode.