What Mount Kilimanjaro Taught Me About Resilience, Leadership, and Courage with Jeff Harmon

What if the strongest thing you could do is stop trying to look strong? We live in a world that rewards performance, certainty and having all the answers. But what happens when life puts you on a mountain, literal or metaphorical, and strips away every illusion of control? Today's guest, Jeff Harmon discovered that resilience isn't about pushing through at all costs. It's about vulnerability, trust, community, and having the courage to lead from your heart when your ego wants to take over. His journey from a life altering diagnosis to leading a wheelchair assisted climb of Mount Kilimanjaro will challenge what you think you know about strength, leadership and what it really means to become who you're meant to be. Enjoy the show. Welcome to make it a great one with Dr. Dr. Dan. This show is all about bringing hope, connection, awareness and wisdom through meaningful conversations that inspire us to be expanded versions of ourselves and have a positive impact on humanity. This is your space to pause, reflect and reconnect with who you are, what you care about and who you want to be. We have this moment, this day and this life. Let's make it a great one. Today I'm speaking with Jeff Harmon. Jeff is an executive leadership coach, speaker and founder of My Impossible, a nonprofit helping individuals with disabilities pursue bold life changing challenges through community and Support. With over 15 years of coaching experience, Jeff partners with leaders primarily in the life sciences to build cultures rooted in trust, accountability and clarity under pressure. Jeff's work is shaped by his own journey with the rare neurological condition that led him to take on one of the most ambitious challenges, leading a team to climb Mount Kilimanjaro in a wheelchair. That experience now fuels his speaking where he helps leaders understand a powerful truth. Pressure doesn't create leadership, it reveals it. Through compelling storytelling and practical insight, Jeff equips audiences to recognize their leadership reflexes under pressure and lead with greater awareness, intention and impact. Jeff, welcome to the show. Thank you, Dr. Dan. Glad to be here. So we're going to talk about your transformational journey, journeys that you, that you go, that you've been on, that you take people on. And I was wondering about starting with how you would describe your life pre diagnosis to, you know, we'll get to now but. But what, what things were like for you then. Yeah, it's a great question. I'm going to say this and I this word and I don't mean it in a negative but I was living a very ordinary life and ordinary can be great. It can be extraordinary and there certainly were those moments but you know, just life In a snapshot four years at college, job out of college, married at 30 years old, two kids, a job, career, some dreams, some coming true, some not. And so life was pretty ordinary and there's again I qualify the word because I think can imagine some people will hear that and be bristle a little bit, especially your audience. But yeah, it was a pretty ordinary typical life. Yeah. And I, I, I appreciate your sensitivity to that word. And as I think about it, you know, what we talk about a lot is finding one's own authentic self. And so that word means different things to different people. Right. And as you said, like someone having a could have, I have a wonderfully ordinary life. And someone else would say I'm, I have an ordinary life, as I think you are saying, which is, and I want more. And there's more, I think there's more for me. And what I'm hearing from you is looking back actually. So here's the question. Did you think it was as ordinary as you see it now back then? I do, I do. But I want to respond to something that you just said as you were kind of classifying the two types of ordinary is and it really resonated as I heard you say it. I absolutely recognize the desire in me throughout my childhood, throughout my early adulthood, throughout, you know, being a full blown adult, I absolutely recognize the desire for more. And I see the evidence of it at different points in my life and I think it was still that desire for more that then found its fulfillment post diagnosis and then, you know, in the events that unfolded after that. So absolutely I was, I recognize today the hunger, the desire for more often held back by my own fears. But absolutely that was there. Yeah, we check off the boxes and for some that's good and for others it's wait, I've checked off all the boxes and why do I not feel fulfilled? Why do I feel like there is more, there's more for me. And you know, some people say there's a couple ways we can look at life or things that happen to us, which is this happened to me and this happens for me. And I'm guessing you have a bent in one of those directions. I do. I, it's taken, it's a journey. I, I often, I quote one of my teachers who has no idea he was my teacher. He passed away in 2013. His name was Dallas Willard. He was a philosopher, teacher, theologian. And he said, one of the things he said is it's more important than what you do is who you become. And so my story, I just turned 52. My 52 years is a story of becoming, and it is an active process. And. And so everything that has happened has happened for my becoming, for. For me, not. Not to me. Yeah. And I imagine that is a process to go through and, well, for to share with. With those listening who have gone through or are going through significant processes and unexpected circumstances. What was the arc of that? You know, getting. There's getting news, and then there is the having to process and really try to integrate the news. And then, as with many medical issues, there is like, it unfolds in reality over time. From here's a name, here's what it means, and here's what you can expect, but you haven't necessarily experienced that yet. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm going to pull back for a second from the diagnosis and happy to dive into that. There's nothing to hide there. But if I look at my journey, this arc that I'm still very much on, if I look at it, a huge starting point of the most recent, if I could say, trajectory was becoming an entrepreneur. It actually wasn't the diagnosis. So I was diagnosed in 2006, and because of the nature of the disease, it's very slow progressing. My life initially didn't really change a whole lot. And then I transitioned to my own business as a leadership advisor, a leadership coach. Began that journey in 2011 and realized this new world that I was in, where things were no longer just handed to me, which often in a corporate environment is, here's your work. Do it. Clock in, clock out. And so I was dealing with a tremendous amount of stress, and can I do this? Can I make it work? Can I provide? And so that coupled then also the diagnosis and the progression was happening there during that same time period was really a stage where I was being called forward to step into a way of thinking, a way of being that was brand new. I had never experienced that type of. Those type of emotions, those type of the feelings, the thoughts before that time. And so the last 14 years have been the most most recently that I could point to. The stage of the cart just kept going faster and faster and faster on the roller coaster, and you kept going faster with it. I had no choice. Right, right. I chose to not get off the ride. Okay, you can choose to get off the ride. It does stop when it comes into the entry gate. One can choose to get off the ride. But I. You're. You're absolutely right. I chose to stay in the car. Yeah. So. Okay. So I'm wondering, as you know, someone who's in a very similar space. And someone who has been an entrepreneur for a long I. So I, I can relate to a lot of what you're, what you're saying. And you got into advising and consulting before you were truly facing the challenge that fuels everything you do. You know, one of your major themes about resilience and, and your, your understanding of what, which you so eloquently talk about in your TEDx Talk for Everyone listening, something that you need to see. Resilience is a choice. And there is what you thought resilience was and there's what you have since learned. It really is. Yeah. I would say in those early years, as I was making sense of the challenges around my mobility, making sense around the new reality of entrepreneurship, I was still very much in the mindset of I have to look strong. I would say I was in my former understanding of what resilience is and was maybe the more common or typical version. And so I think that was part of the stress and the anxiety that I experienced in those early years is how do I make this work? How do I look good doing it? Not in an ego, thumb and lapel sort of way, but how do I look good to the world? Like, he's got it all together, he's got it figured out. And so that was very much part of those early years, 2012 through 2014, 15, 16. That early phase of this was how do I look good, how do I look resilient and, and be strong as people are expecting me to be. So that was a very, that was early on how I viewed resilience. And it took a Mountain, took 19,000 Foot Mountain in Africa to help me realize that that's not actually what resilience is. It's about showing up every day. It's about choosing gratitude and choosing to stay in the moment, as we would just use the metaphor of the roller coaster, choosing to stay in the car even though we feel like we're going to lose our cookies. Yeah. Things work until they don't. And most of us, I would say even those who are considered the seekers, it's still hard to change without an experience or a pressure point or something breaking away or breaking something different that forces us to have to look at something differently. And it's right. It's interesting to think about what I could only imagine that you have gone through with your condition and the changes in your life as a result. But it was Mount Kilimanjaro. It was that, well, after you've been in the space and have had all your life experiences. That that is what taught you that? No, no, no. I haven't been looking at this the right way. And by the way, the way you're looking at this is the way, like we're taught to look at it most of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is quite extraordinary. I, I say often when people ask, well, why Kilimanjaro? Why a mountain? And this goes to this statement, it wasn't happening to me. It was happening for me. Kilimanjaro became inevitable. Not because I went and chased it, not because I went and found it and I had some dream of doing it. One day it came to me, and I'm a person of deep faith. And so for me, God brought Kilimanjaro into my journey for a very specific purpose. And it points to what I said before about my becoming who I am and who I am becoming as a person. When you said the words, interesting. You said the words when you thought, when you were writing the original roller coaster of entrepreneurship. Can I do this right? And those are the same words at Kibo Hut. Yes. Where you are looking. Well, that was before the first peak. Right. As you were going to peak for the first time. Yeah. So the, so for the audience that I'm assuming hasn't looked at the TED talk yet. So we, after three days of climbing, we got to summit base camp. And that's called Kibo Hut, as you said, Dan. And we were at the doorstep of what we really had no idea what it was going to be. We knew it was going to be hard. We knew we were going to be facing 17, 18, 19,000ft of altitude. And I laid there in my bunk the night before and I wondered, could I do it? Am I going to be able to do this? Is my body going to be able to handle these dramatic changes and really question. And as you, if I'm honest, I hadn't made the connection. But you pointed to, I was asking in 2011, 2012, 2013, those early days of entrepreneurship, can I do this? Do I have what it takes? Can I make this work? Can I look strong? So interesting. You point to the, the, you point to those two, those two periods of time. But yeah, I was there and I was wondering, am I going to be able to make this look good? Am I going to be able to come through people who had invested in us, donors, supporters, school age kids who are, who had sent me on this journey with a school flag to hold at the top of the summit? And was I going to be able to Come through for them. Yeah, the, the presentation, right. The, the sort of the similar thing, like, how do I look? What's the, you know, how are people going to see me? I'm supposed to show up this way, you know, and talk about added pressure. Like this is. This is your, this is your adventure. You created, brought everyone together, now a nonprofit around this whole thing. Right? So this is like you're the poster, right? Like this is. And then the pressure that goes with performance and what we find is that performing, we're not being our authentic. We're not being ourselves when we're performing and we put all these expectations on ourselves when we have to perform a certain way. But what you found on that mountain and like what a place to find it, where, you know, I've heard. I haven't done this. I've heard other similar stories about how real and raw everything gets and how the truths just present themselves. That there is no, there's no, there's no pretense. It's just being you. Like you had to rely on your inner core. Also I had to learn even more how to rely on others. And I think it's a. Both and relying and being as true to myself as I could be, being honest with myself, as honest as I could be and trusting others and the expression it takes a village. It took literally a village for me to climb that mountain. Over 120 people, 32 from my US based team that I recruited to support me and then over 100 Tanzanian guides and porters were needed and I'd say even more necessary for that to happen. And so there's a humbling that happens in the face of that. Knowing that I can't do this on my own. That's incredible. You know, I saw a few pictures and you know, you. I saw the pictures with the core team and that seemed like a substantial team. This is tenfold or more than more than tenfold what you're describing. Well, and talk about leadership, right? Bringing all of these people together, not to mention the donors, the funders, the organizers and for. To have all of this buy in for a vision and a cause. What type of. How did you step into that role? Or how did. Not only. How did you step into that role? How did you. How were you in that role? Like what was your. Was it. Was that an intentional. Did you have like an intentional way of being and. Or were you just being led? Well, early on. So the idea was birthed in the summer of 23 and I would say the mission really started January 1st of 24. I was in my glory, if I'm honest. To have such a big mission that I was leading, I was responsible for. And so the organization, we had a fantastic guide company in Tanzania, so they handled all of the on the ground stuff, but outside of those details, everything was on me. I mean, I delegated. I had other teammates. It was a. It was a group experience, but. And so it felt good to lead something of that scale. I hadn't done that in a while. I used to lead global projects in my past life vocationally. And so to have such an initiative to lead. And you pointed to founding the nonprofit. We raised over $125,000 to fund the climb and other ancillary activities. So it was amazing. And once we got on the mountain, while I still was the center point in many ways and still the leader of the climb, it really was to take a different role once we got to the mountain. And so that's. That's hard. That's hard. While there was no doubt, there's no question, I. I needed everyone else to do their jobs and move me up the mountain, support me to get up the mountain. That also is a. Is an interesting shift from a place of where everything is relying on you to move the parts, to put people in the right place and all do all those elements to then be in a place to be carried. Literally, Dan. To be carried at certain points. It was both ends of the spectrum. And so that tested me as well. And it speaks to another way of looking at resilience and another way of looking at showing up, which is not one. Again, on being locked into a particular role or a particular idea about how you need to look and how you need to be perceived. But a. It's like an alignment. I don't know. Help me with the words. Right. It's alignment of like you were. You were being who you needed to be, is what it sounds like by reading the situation as a leader, knowing there are many ways to lead and to step aside, to allow others to step up and lead as well. Yeah, and it's interesting. You know, I've talked to team members many times over the last eight, nine months since we climbed, and their view of me as leader never changed, but my view of myself as leader changed. And so it's interesting how the. The. The narrative, or what I call often the tape that runs in our head that no one else is hearing, no one else is seeing or. Or. Or thinking. For us as leaders, we have this tape of what it should be, what we should look like how we should be acting or performing. Yeah. The inner game. That happens not just for leaders, but for all humans. Because, because we all face the real that runs in the background despite the fact that probably almost no one outside our heads is actually thinking that that is a, that's an, that's a, that's a challenge that, that I'm grateful. I'm. I'm. I'm learning to, to silence. I'm learning to address it in a new way. But it's, but it is absolutely there for again, for leaders, but for, for everyone who, who's walking this planet. Yeah. You just made me think of parents, right. This, the whole. The same, the same, I don't know, challenges we face when we're thought that we are supposed to show that we are strong and we always have everything under control and know all the answers and then at times may find that the best way to be real is to be the exact opposite based on the situation, the age of your child, the developmental age, which is to be completely vulnerable and yet still be the parent. You're still the parent, you're still in charge. I mean in a sense you're still the leader. By doing the opposite of what you might have been raised to think you needed to do. Yeah, yeah. I think about the book by Patrick Lencioni, one of my favorites and probably least talked about of all of his fables called Naked. It's not Naked Leadership. The name's now escaping me. We can look it up later and find it in the show notes. But it's a fable about a consulting firm in your neck of the woods in the Bay Area that has wild success because they show up to their clients and to the world vulnerable, not having all the answers, asking lots of questions, saying that they screwed up. Even d' Lencioni's other work, the famous one five dysfunctions of a Team, talks about learning vulnerability based trust and learning to say I got it wrong, I'm sorry. So those two books go together really well. But I think you're pointing to that is we have this perception. I lived with the perception that vulnerability is a bad thing. But as I've matured, as I've had the experience that I've experienced, to learn that there's so much power in authenticity, vulnerability and to still show up as leader, whether it be parent, CEO, consultant, whatever it is, mountain expedition leader, but that there's real power in being vulnerable. Yeah, I'm being real and gosh, we are. We're sort of taught that that can Be a sign of weakness and reduce credibility. And that's so fascinating because the older we get and the more work we tend to do and you know, it's a lot of work on, well, at least in my experience, fear, self doubt, imposter stuff. It's like it's realizing the more and more we have the courage to be ourselves, uncover who that even is like, the more grounded and impactful that our presence becomes by embodying that rather than playing a part and playing and playing out of fear of being found out or fear of looking weak. I'll tell you a story. So we come off the mountain and we're. There's a gate, there's a. Literally a doorway that you walk through to officially come off the mountain. And so I have, throughout our training, I have a tradition that every time I finish a course or a race, a Spartan race, I, with the help of two team members, I cross the finish line on my feet. And it is not strong to watch me walk. It's almost looks painful. It's not, but it looks. It doesn't look strong. So that's number one. So we get to the end of the climb and I'm like, guys, I want to walk through the gate like I do and have done for all of our races. And this is being filmed for a documentary that's going to come off, come out later this year. And. But. And so I begin to walk through and I'm weeping, Dan, I'm weeping with gratitude, weeping with so many emotions, but just. And I dropped my head to hide my face so that you can't see my tears. And one of my team members, his name is Alex, very good friend of mine. Friend of mine, he goes, put your head up, put your head up. And he probably said it three or four times because I kept trying to lower my head and hide my eyes that I was from crying. But it just. For me, it was at the end of it, the feedback that I got was so powerful, and I didn't do it for the feedback, but the feedback came nonetheless of visibly showing my emotion, visibly in weakness, crossing the finish line, physical weakness crossing the finish line, only possible by the aid of others. It made a powerful impact. And so it didn't change the fact, like we said before, that I was the leader of the climb and everyone was there because of me. But as we're talking about vulnerability so many times, we hide it. We hide a sign of weakness. We hide an emotion that wells up in our eyes. And so I just one thing I've I've learned through this process is don't hide. Don't hide. Because at the end of the day, people are going to respond to the authenticity. Yeah. Don't hide. All right. You just came up with the theme for your next TEDx talk. Right there, man. Don't hide. And when I imagine the scene, which I'm excited to hear, I will get to watch someday soon in the documentary, when you. When I'm imagining you being supported in walking across that line, tears head down, tears head up. Like, the word that came to me is triumph and triumphant. And I think that's how we have to keep mixing things up with people is like what we think is triumph and what we think is courage. And what we think, it's. It's often the exact opposite of what that really is. And at its core, what you are saying, what we are talking about is, is having the courage to just be how we are in that moment. Like, just be as we are, which is. It's hard. Yeah. And I'm a dad of two to two daughters who are coming of age, young women and wanting to. The world is so pressurized to put a good face on everything. And we've tried to protect them in how we know that if they're on social media or not, but regardless of that, regardless of that, to try to lay into others. And the only way I can do it, the best way I could do it, not the only way, but the best way is to model it to live a life that is an example of that type of leadership. There it is. Right. Right. Yeah. This idea of protecting our kids, isn't it? I have two daughters who are young women and a son. And I can share that experience as well. Of course, what we can control and what we can't control, which I think also goes back to our topic of resilience, is really trying to figure out what the difference is and spend our time on what we can do. And what you're talking about, what you can do is have a large degree of influence on how you show up in the world for them. And gosh, there's so much that is out of our control. Yeah. And I think, you know, for me as a dad and a husband, you know, my priority has become to go after their hearts, to delight in their hearts. Doesn't mean I am always the good guy. Sometimes that means being the guy with making the hard decision and saying no, but in everything, I want to show up with strength. Not strength as the world defines it, but show up with strength and go after their hearts. And I think while it will look different for a leader in industry or in organizational life, I think for all of us, and I tried to do this with the Kilimanjaro team, is to go after their hearts. Those that you want to have an impact on, those that you want to influence. And I think what happens, what I've learned for myself and with clients and with others, is it creates this type of inner authority that is counter to any type of power or any type of force. You know, going after people's hearts, serving them well, serving their needs. It just creates a measure of inner authority that can't be found in many places. Inner authority, yes, because we are. We're taught and programmed to look outside, to look outside of ourselves. I mean, far before social media, it's the same thing. Whether it was, you know, looking at others, what is other people wearing, what teams are others on, what are. What are other people living, what are they driving, what are they watching? And then we get all those. All those commercials and all of that stuff. And then social media just takes it to the nth degree. It's all looking outside versus inside. Inner authority. Did you find that? Like, where did you. I mean, you found, I think, a big degree of that on the mountain, but I also have to imagine you started to find it before. Yeah. And it's. To me, inner authority is created in the minds and hearts of those that you're called to lead by your character, by the leader's character. It's about how we show up. I tried to follow a model of servant leadership that begins with this notion that it's not about me, it's not about me. And that was. And in some ways, that's hard on the mountain because we were there because of me. But I tried to wake up every morning and when I put my feet on the floor to say, it's not about me, it's not about me. One of my enduring memories on the mountain was we had climbed for nearly 12 hours to get to the first summit bridge. And it was hard. And it was hard. And some of my team members who had gone ahead and they had summited before us, they were waiting there at the ridge. And as I. As I crested the ridge, and it was celebration. It was beautiful for us, the small group that was together that did that. My first question to the team members were, there was, did you summit? Did you summit? And I remember we had a young man, he's 23 years old. He was there with his dad and his brother. They have Become good friends of mine. And his name's Daniel. I says, daniel, did you summit with your dad and your brother? And he said, yes, and we wept. I'll never forget that moment with Daniel. And. And so that. I think that I don't want this to sound like a pat on my back, but that's. I want to share that with the audience of this mindset, that there's nothing wrong with your own accomplishment, there's nothing wrong with your own achievement and success. Those are. Those can be beautiful things. But I think for us as leaders, how we build that inner authority with those we're called to lead is by creating that inner authority in the minds and hearts of those that we're leading and say, it's not about me. You had to make some hard decisions. And in your talk about resilience in it with vulnerability and how one leads, I was curious about the third peak because you. You guys peaked two of the three, and you. You alluded to having to dig deep to make a decision. Now you're leading these people all this way, all this training, all of this, right. With these expectations, and you had to make a difficult decision that came from that inner wisdom and that inner guidance. Would you mind sharing? Yeah. So we got to. As you pointed to the second summit point, first one is called Gilman. Second one is called Stella Point. We got just a little bit ways past that. And one of my team members came up to me because the sun was going down and food and water was dwindling, and we had gotten a warning that says, when it gets dark, it gets dangerous. So they were looking to me to make a call. And my team member said, dig deep. Check your heart. What. If you. If you want to go on, we're with you. But what. What. What should we do here? And I paused, probably five seconds, four. I mean, not long. And I made the decision in that moment, 500 yards away from Yahuru Peak, final summit, that we would turn around, utilize as much of the sunlight as we still had to get along the crater ridge and begin our descent. And so we did not reach that final summit. And it was. I was. I felt really clear in the moment. And it was really hard, Dan. Really hard. I've been watching footage as we've been editing for the film and seeing some of the reaction at that turnaround point by some of my team. And I weep when I see them, how they hurt. The fact that we didn't get all the way, it hurts me. But I know in the moment, I made the best Decision I could. And when I reflect on, well, why did I do that? What was behind that? The word. The only word that I come up with is love. Love. Not love as a nice feeling. Not love as being kind or nice. Love as a deep commitment to do, to the best of my ability what's best for others, even when it cost us something. And that decision came at a cost. And so was it the perfect decision? I'm not sure. But it was the right decision in that moment. And it was born out of love. Yeah. Yeah. And a different decision could have come with greater cost. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think to make a decision out of love versus ego in a situation such as that is really difficult. And I'm. And this would like. I would say in a normal. In a. This isn't a typical situation or normal situation, which would make this even a more difficult decision to go with your heart than from ego. Yeah. It wasn't based on pride. It wasn't based on fear. It was based on love. And if all things have been ideal and different circumstances, of course, we summit. Of course. If it had been an hour, just an hour earlier, we summit. But that's not the hand that we've been given. So what did the mountain give you that you would like to leave with everyone listening and watching? Oh, so much, Dan. So much. I think it was. What it gave me was just this deeper sense of community and the power of community. The deeper sense of who. Who I. Who I am. Of who I am. Because as the mountain revealed some things that I'm not that proud of, then it revealed some things that I am proud of. But I think the other. The thing that I want to know to people is the insights that I've had didn't come on the mountain. The insights that have developed, have come. Have come in the last eight months off the mountain. And so my. My encouragement to everyone is whatever you live through, whatever your mountain is small or great, whatever it is, is create space and slow down after you're off that mountain to check what it has for you to learn. Because it was a whirlwind as anyone's mountain will be. Whether it's a diagnosis, whether it's a hard financial challenge, whether it's struggle with your kids on and on, whatever it is, it's a roller coaster, and you gain and you learn and stuff happens, but it's only until after the mountain when you can slow down and think and learn. That has been such a gift that my life is at such a pace that I'm able to really sit with the mountain over and over again. So that's the I think for me that's one of the biggest things that I'm taking away from the whole experience. The continued process of becoming. Yes. Jeff, thank you. Thank you for sharing your experience and lessons. A documentary to come to bring this even more to life in experiential form. Tell everyone where they can learn about my My impossible. Your your coaching, your speaking and everything you're up to. So my impossible is my impossible. My impossible.org and there's who we are, what we're about. There's a few videos there that they can see. The TED Talk, I think the TED Talk video is there. But maybe we could pop that in the show notes. Oh yeah. Easy to find. Well, we'll lead everyone to it. Make sure that that's there. And then my coaching and speaking is brilliance within coaching.com There's a theme. There's a theme that runs through it all. Yes, sir. Yes sir. Thank you so much for having me, Dan. Yeah, really appreciated this conversation. Inspiring. Thank you. Jeff challenges us to live and lead with our heart. Here are five key takeaways from this conversation. Number one, Pressure doesn't create character, it reveals it. The moments that test us most often show us who we already are beneath the performance. Number two, True resilience isn't about looking strong. It's about staying present, choosing gratitude, and continuing forward, even when the outcome is uncertain. Number three, Leadership requires both courage and surrender. Sometimes the most powerful thing a leader can do is trust others enough to let them carry part of the load. The best decisions are often made from love, not ego. Choosing what's right for others, even at a personal cost, is one of leadership's highest callings. And number five, the greatest lessons often come after the mountain. Growth happens when we slow down, reflect, and allow our experiences to teach us what they were really meant to reveal. Lots of lessons in this conversation. I know many of you are thinking about your mountain or mountains. I know I am. And they are there to teach us. They're there to expand us, there to humble us, and ultimately to help us go beyond who we were before climbing them. We are interested in what you think about this episode, so please feel free to leave us a comment rdanpeters on Instagram or reply to any of our social posts. Please share this episode to anyone and everyone who you are thinking about right now and who you think will benefit. Thank you for being a part of our amazing community. Your 5 star reviews and subscribing it really does make a difference. And as always, we have this moment, this day and this life. Let's make it a Great one. This has been a Peters and Rossi production. Make It a Great one with Dr. Dan is produced by Amber Miller. Our engineer is Phil Rossi. Theme music is uplifting folk by awesome Music. Artwork by Kelly Dwyer. Follow us on social media drdampeters. For more information, visit drdampeters.com. Sa.