The Smartest Person in the Room Doesn't Think So: STEM Excellence and the Imposter Syndrome Paradox

SPEAKER_00: Welcome aboard. This is mainline executive coaching ACT. You're right where you should be. You're a leader, an emerging leader, a leader that wants to come into being at a higher level of where you are right now, team leader.

It doesn't matter what kind it is that you are. We are here for you, and we've got a great trip for you. We are looking at those people that have high STEM skills, high STEM intelligence, that are just those high STEM performers. That we look at these folks, they think we think they're such amazing, intelligent, brilliant, often genius type people, and yet they struggle with confidence, low self-esteem.

They somehow just don't quite believe in themselves, and despite all the admiration, accolades, and certifications and achievements, they just don't get it. Rich, that's what we're looking at today. And this also affects, obviously, as you as a leader, the culture that you are in, the culture that you're creating. So, what happens when these powerful, brilliant people don't know how to step into their leadership positions?

What happens to the culture that they operate in? So, we're gonna take a look at that today. This is gonna be a fun ride. We're gonna enjoy it.

Hopefully, that you will enjoy this self-awareness growth and understanding. And if you are one of these folks that really struggle with this great STEM skills but low self-confidence, man, this is gonna be a real lifesaver for you, I think. What's your take on this? SPEAKER_01: I I agree.

Um, Michael, this is this is very interesting because there's a definite correlation between high STEM achievers and imposter syndrome versus emotional intelligence, really understanding where that is. Um this reminds me of uh a study that was done by PWC, their uh global CEO report, and they had talked about what is the global uh battleground for employees, what are they looking for? And if you looked at where you know 8,500 of the CEOs all agree that the the today's battleground is around emotional intelligence.

People with problem solving, people with the uh soft skills, leadership, all of these things that that you just mentioned. But at the bottom of this was STEM skills. In many ways, there's no shortage, but it's those people who have these phenomenal STEM skills if they only understood the power that they they possess and the abilities they possess and could get rid of this imposter syndrome, which is quite frankly, it's it's a very big issue right now. If they could get beyond that, just how far they would go.

Just how far they they could push the you know the limits. And so that's one of the things that you know, I I'm excited to talk about this. Should we hit hit up some uh startling statistics? SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's do that.

SPEAKER_01: Startling statistics. We haven't done this for a while. So here's one that was done by bps.org.

uk. And in the study of 80 women in U.S. STEM master PhD programs, okay, 97.

5 percent reported at least moderate imposter feelings, 41.3 percent above moderate, 26.3 percent intense. These correlated with poor mental health, higher burnout risk, and greater consideration of dropping out.

SPEAKER_00: That's remarkable, isn't it? SPEAKER_01: That's remarkable. We're we're and these are women, uh, you know, study of women that are in either master's or PhD programs. Science, technology, engineering, and math.

And to get to that level is pretty incredible, quite frankly, especially in today's world of technology. SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. So these young women in particular, these they did some with some men, but these young men women in particular, uh, all of these STEM-skilled people have a high level of pressure to perform. And so they respond to it and they respond to it in kind of a way of no matter how good they get at it, it's always do better, do better, do better.

Yes. And so they never take the time to really slow down, own what it is that they've accomplished, really see what it is that they're they're they've done, really acknowledge who they are becoming, and realize the great advancements that they've made in them in themselves professionally, personally, but also in their careers. They just don't do that. Now, let's say this.

Let's say you have a NASCAR, and it is a top performing engine car, everything, right? And it is it is built and designed to win. You get the right driver in it, you're gonna do amazing. You will do amazing.

But if you always ran that car, you never gave it a tune-up, never gave it oil changes, never changed the tires, never checked the different things that are going on with the engine and the transmission, and you were always running it 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 a year, how long would that engine, that car, be able to keep maintaining its leadership position in this field of being a NAS car? Not long. Not long. It has the potential, it has the equipment, it has everything, but it can't keep going on and on and on.

So with these folks that have these great STEM skills and talents, I'm gonna say intelligence, they have they have this idea that they can keep going without some sort of figuring out how to manage themselves, yeah, manage their emotions, managing, manage the ups and downs, managing their own growth. If they feel that they must always be right, now there's the key. Oh man, always have to be right. How long before they start breaking?

How long before they start questioning? How far how long before they start doubting themselves and far start falling apart? It's natural. You think if you're one of those STEM skills people, that you're just you're just weak, you're flawed, you're you're fallible.

You're you just this is all the evidence that shows that you don't have what it takes. Is this it's in fact, it's just the opposite. You're not taking care of you the way that you would take care of that great NASCAR. SPEAKER_01: No.

No, uh you know what? It's interesting that you say this. And I'm as you're saying this, if you've watched NASCAR or um Formula One, any of these high-performing races, you you tend to think that the driver's out there alone, right? They're in that car, going around that that raceway all by themselves, making the decisions all by themselves.

But the interesting thing about that is there's a whole team that's talking to them the whole time they're going, telling them what to do, to what position they're in, uh, when it's time to come in for uh, you know, new tires and fuel and all these things, but it's not one person. If it was just the driver in a car, can you imagine not being able to see behind you and only being focused on what's right in front of you and really not taking into account that you need to take care of that very vehicle that's you're you're flying around the track in?

SPEAKER_00: All right, that's a brilliant observation, Rich. It really is. Let's put it into the the context now of how do these people isolate themselves? We talked about this earlier.

You had a theory about why these high skem stem skilled, intelligent people isolate themselves. SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, one when we I think it's not that I think. It's if you look at these high-performing STEM skills and and students or or whoever, PhD students, masters, people that have even graduated the PhDs, a lot of the focus through this time has been on themselves. And through that focus not only has been themselves getting these grades or pushing themselves through these different classes and courses and years and of school and writing all these things, the one thing that they have in common is they focus upward.

They're constantly focused upward. And when they focus upward, many times they're focused on those people that have these, they're very high-performing people with these STEM skills. And so the higher up the ladder they're in education, the higher up the ladder they get, the more focused they are on a very small percentage of the population. That's where I want to be.

I'm focused there. So what's happening is they're missing the boat on everybody else that's watching them move up the ladder with complete amazement. And in many ways, support. But it's because of that focus on that small group, so focusing upwards, they forget to take into account who they are, that emotional intelligence.

How do I take care of this person versus how do I become that smaller group of people? How do I fit in there? And if I don't fit in there, everybody else is looking at me like I'm a failure. In real when in reality people are saying they're pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would agree with that. unknown: Yeah. SPEAKER_00: And so again, that isolation, that kind of echo chamber that you get into your own mind about what's going on here. Now, if you're one of those students that spent a lot of time studying in the library and in the lab and so on and so forth, you were not one of those that was going out socializing, being with other people, learning to read social skills, learning how to interact with other people, because you've been very wrapped up in the particular study that you're so passionate about.

That's going to show. That's going to show up at some point in your career development, simply because you've never taken those time, that time to really learn how to interact, read people, and feel comfortable with people, and showing you know who you are, and all those kinds of things that people normally do to just to get to know each other and feel comfortable. So this will be a bit uncomfortable for you. That's going to be true.

The problem is if you don't learn these kinds of things, these skills, and you can learn them. In fact, let's do it from this point of view right now. One of the things that we do with coaching to help these kinds of individuals, and there's a lot of types of people that we work with, but let's just stay with these high-skilled uh STEM people. One of the things they don't have is a lot of self-awareness.

They don't know how to read other people, they don't know how to take feedback from other people, they don't even know how to self-um evaluate oftentimes. They just don't know. And for those people that want to know and have to have quantified information and studies and so forth, not knowing is going to be very uncomfortable for them. So they don't have any bar of measurement to look at themselves and see how they're doing.

What is it that we do as we we bring people, enroll people, and get them started in coaching? There's some significant things that we do to start changing that whole paradigm of who you are. SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting question. And and kind of what you're referring to before I get into that is these things you're talking about come from Goldman, his EI framework.

How you know some of these problems, low self-awareness, uh self-management, social awareness. What we do is we start at the inner core. So many people look at who we are, that outer core, those observable skills, those tactical, uh strategic tactical competencies, um, critical thinking, strategic thinking, uh decision making. That's where they start.

They look at these outer outer core skills as that's where we have to begin. I have to develop my communication, I have to develop my decision making, I have to be a better critical thinker. Those don't come from the outer core. Those come from that inner core, who you are, the concept of how you were raised, who you were raised by, your education, um, the environment, you know, even down to religious beliefs.

We can talk about all these things that make you who you are on that inner core. That is what influences that outer core. We have to start there. What is your and that awareness around who you are, who you truly are, what skills and gaps do you have at that level versus just skipping over everything and trying to compare yourself to what's going on to what you see in others and that outer core.

It doesn't work that way. Doesn't work that way for anybody. SPEAKER_00: It doesn't. And so much of the time, what people are looking at, as you're describing so well, is that outer core performance.

How am I doing here? How about here? And all these different nine areas that we evaluate. But what they don't realize that is the outer core.

The inner core is where it really all begins, as you were alluding to here. And the alluding and that inner core that we're talking about here is this. If you're anxious, that inner core is anxious, you can't feel calm. If that inner core is full of doubt, you can't feel confident.

If that inner core has got a lot of shame involved with it, you don't feel that you're ever going to be able to measure up because you've got all these flaws that are never going to go away. That inner core is critical for you just to be able to focus and then trust yourself, build that confidence, and then move forward as you develop, not just as an employee or a particular kind of technician or a particular kind of specialist, and finally as a leader, that's going to affect who you are fundamentally.

And that's what we see with folks. That when they don't have that inner core really figured out and settled, they act out of a lot of other things that anxiety upsets, they're they're easily, they feel this sense of uh you know not good enough, inadequacy, they feel all these sorts of sorts of things. Then they go and address the outer core. Well, I've got to become, as you said, a better critical thinker.

I've got to be a better problem solver, I gotta be better at communications, I gotta be better at selling, I gotta be a better visionary, whatever those things are. That's not it. What that's kind of like is my car would just go faster if I change the tire. Well, the problem is the engine's blown.

Yeah. Till that engine gets fixed, it doesn't matter how new the tires are. So when we approach coaching, what we're looking at is the fundamentals. Yeah.

Who you are, what are your leadership talents? Let's take a look at them. How does you how do you work? How do you think?

How do you decide? How do you show up? How do you show up at work? What are the things that people see that are evident in your behavior?

And we take all that and we say, Oh, let's have a have a look at your your peers. Let's get that feedback that you've been wondering about all this time. Well, what do they really think? What do they really feel about me?

How do they really see me? Let's get their feedback so that we can see how they see you. And we've got a lot of information about you here. Here we know how the internal stuff is going.

We're also getting the feedback from other people. Now you get the chance to do this wonderful thing called, I'm going to develop my own individual leadership plan, development plan. Yeah. I'm going to be in charge of that.

I get to be the one who leads this out with the assistance of a coach to figure out what are those areas I want to improve. Sometimes areas that there's going to be some tweaking, some areas going to be vast improvements. But see, here it is. Why do you feel the way you do, STEM people?

Why? I would suggest that one of the reasons is this that while you feel very competent and very much in control in your life in these areas of skin, skin, uh, skim, excuse me, STEM, and uh and your profession and all that stuff, somewhere inside of you, you don't feel like you have any control. And that's the problem. SPEAKER_01: You know, you the way you you just painted this picture is so important.

And and one of the things that I think is a lot of people have problems around is the fact that if they look at this outer core for a minute, Michael, and for imagine for a minute that you and I are in an annual review, okay? And I sit you down and I say, Michael, you've done a great job this last year. Except for communication skills. So I think communication skills are uh is an area that you need to work on.

And so I'm gonna rate you maybe a two out of five this year because it's an area you're not quite up to snuff on. What are you gonna do if you're not aware of who you what makes that those communication skills tick? You're gonna go out and find the nearest book or the nearest seminar or whatever on communication skills instead of really diving in to where the potential comes from. You just mentioned it.

Could be confidence, it could be uh a lack of decision making, could be a lack of social skills or social presence that's creating those communication skills. It's not just about communication. And not only that, it's not just about the inner core and the outer core. How do you translate that inner core to the outer core?

Most leaders fail in that translation area. There's the gap. How do we actually process who we are to that outer core? SPEAKER_00: That's a big deal.

That's a big deal. It's the reason it is a big deal is because we are social animals and we need each other. SPEAKER_01: Yes. SPEAKER_00: We need others, they need us.

That's what creates the sense of culture, organization, teamwork. We need each other. And if we come to the team, you might say, or come to the organization with great feelings of doubt, or great feelings that we're flawed, or great feelings that we're just inadequate, that we're not up to it, that's going to interfere with the work, the work that we have to do. It's going to interfere with the talents that we have and how we can deliver on what our job is and our ability to contribute to the organization.

So, what we're talking about here, as we take a look at these high-stem, intelligent, skilled individuals, is as great as they are doing, if they are struggling with this low self-esteem, low self-confidence, all that other stuff, they are like the race car, the NASCAR of Formula One. And what they've got is not just the car, they're dragging behind them this huge anchor that just keeps holding them back and disallows them from really taking off and getting into the race. They're dragging this with them, no matter where they go.

It just slows them down, it bumps up against the the side of the car, banging around, making noise, distracting them. That's what it's like. And what we're saying here is this if you got all those doubts and those fears and those worries here, and you are that STEM-skilled, intelligent individual, you can stop it. We'll show you how to stop that, turn that around.

So the energy is going into you know, you as an individual, you as an employee, you as a leader, rather than all energy being wasted off with doubt and debates and all that craziness that we get ourselves into to where we finally give up, burn out, don't take risks, settle for what we have. Yes, play it safe. SPEAKER_01: You know, you bring something to mind here, and and we have worked with incredibly intelligent individuals who have based a career in many ways on STEM skills.

They have they have phenomenal mathematical skills, brilliant engineers who really understand how technology works and are right at the forefront of all this. But time and time and time again, we've talked to these people, and there's a confidence issue. And that has become, in many ways, at some point in their career, someone pulled the rug out from underneath them, told them they didn't like one of their ideas. didn't approve or recognize their skills.

And because of that, now the confidence is waning. They don't want to try again. They're afraid to try again. And so I I what we're getting into, I think this is a great segue with what you're mentioning.

How do we help these people? Because in many of these individuals that have these great STEM skills. If the rug's pulled out from underneath them, they're told their ideas are no good. How what's that going to do to them if they don't have the emotional intelligence to overcome and the understanding around awareness?

So, what how how do we do this, Michael? SPEAKER_00: One of the things that coaching does is creates a unique relationship between the coachy and the coach. It's a very different kind of relationship. Think of it as if you ever worked with a particular teacher or professor that really understood you, that really liked you, that had a particular interest in you as in the as a student or as in this field that you were studying.

And they spent extra time with you, talking to you, uh, mentoring you, coaching you. It's that kind of close, intimate contact that you have in this world of who you are and who you want to become that really changes. It's information changes no one. Information changes no one.

It's the applied application that made it that's made into a habit over time that changes someone. Now, here's the problem with that. That means sustainability. Just like you talked about, you're not the car, you're in the you're you're you're the driver of the car, you're not alone.

You've got people giving you feedback. They're telling you what's ahead, they're telling you what's you know what's behind, they're telling you it's time to come in. Let's get those, get that filled up uh with more gas, let's get the tires changed. You've got a whole group of people that are working with you to help you develop that, to win.

That's what coaching does. It gives you outside ears, it gives you outside eyes, it gives you somebody with real expertise in this field of leadership development to work with in an area that you've never had that kind of assistance. So it breaks the isolation loop. You now have a partner that you're working with.

You don't have to just rely on your own judgments, assessments, and your fantasies and hopes, aspirations. You had somebody there who's working with you. That's amazing how it affects the synergy of that individual. Suddenly, for instance, there's I mean, these other startling statistics, training in this area, uh, there is a there's a boost in productivity of 22%.

If you're doing it with coaching, the increase is 88%. Four times the power of that relationship that you have with the coach can increase your activity from just training 22 to now the coaching to 88%. Let me ask you a question, those of you who are listening out there. Think of an area, I'm gonna ask you to think of three areas.

Think of an area that you're doing doggone well in. You're already doing really great. What if you could increase that area by 80%, 88%? What would happen to your performance?

What would happen to you in your job? How would how would that affect the people that are watching you suddenly just go but a bing? Take an air there, you're doing okay in. It's not great, but it's okay.

But suddenly that went up 88%. Boy, you just used to not do so great in that, but Matt, I mean you're just kind of average, but now you're just knocking it out of the park. What would that do? Let's take an area that you're not doing that you very well, it's an area that you're really struggling, and you improve that by 88%.

What would that do to you? You, how you feel about yourself, how you see yourself, how others see you, the way they perceive your potential and growth. What would that all that do? Now you do all three of those.

Great already, pretty good already, not so great already, and it all boom bings up there over the next six uh excuse me, uh, six months to 12 months. Yeah. What would that do? How would you feel about yourself then?

Would you still doubt yourself? Would you still have this anxiety? Would you still be playing the debate in your head about yourself? What if you could actually get those things settled?

That's why coaching makes such a remarkable difference in people's lives who are seeking higher levels of performance, higher level levels of leadership. Now, here's the question, and I want I'm gonna invite you to address it. We are talking about the high potential employees, yes, versus the high producers. Yes.

We've talked a little bit about this now in this context of the STEM-skilled, intelligent people. Open that up for us in terms of getting out of that just produce fixed mindset into potential growth mindset. What does coaching do for these high-stem skilled people? SPEAKER_01: That that's a great question.

And it's one that's being looked at uh globally by many of the organizations we're we're working with. There's a big difference between high performers and high potentials. Every organization needs those high performers, don't get me wrong. But the difference between the high performer, which who is somebody that is so focused on the here and now, the project they're on, the tasks they're trying to complete, I just need to get it done by Friday.

That's my goal. I'm gonna do everything this week to get this done by Friday. Change your perspective. What if you looked at everything in the future?

Three months down the road, six months down the road, a year down the road, what am I gonna do this week that's gonna impact everything that I'm doing a year from now? Once you start to change that mindset, the the day or whatever it is that you're focused on for this week becomes bigger than that. It becomes something that's gonna get you to the next level, or get your organization to the next level, or get your team to the next level. Right now, we've been asked by uh a few different organizations that have done these very big um studies within their organizations to determine who those high potentials are versus the high performers.

And it's the high potentials they're asking us to really step in and coach to get them to that next level, get them past, to help them understand, yeah, you have this potential to be that high potential, to be that person who is gonna really grow your organization. And one of the questions, the things that that that come to mind around this, Michael, and some of you guys are out there probably shaking your head, no, there's no way. You know, that's not what's going on. Or, yeah, coaching's gonna make me 88% better.

Um, and how am I gonna know that? Well, it's not gonna be a by just a pat on your back from your coach. It goes back to that NASCAR philosophy. You have a whole team, you have a whole team that's watching you drive that car around the track that every single one of them has an invested interest in, a personal invested interest.

But you're the focal point, you're the person that's out there getting around. So when they come around, of course, they're gonna want to give you some feedback. That's where the return on investment comes. It's not from a pat on your back, but it comes from are what are your stakeholders seeing?

Where how are you feeling about yourself? You know, measuring and and course correcting every single time. That's the return on investment. It doesn't come from you alone.

Once you start to realize that you're not in this by yourself, you have a whole team behind you, your stakeholders that are cheering you on, wanting you to succeed. That does volumes, speaks volumes for confidence. Speaks it starts to take that old imposter syndrome issue and just throw it out the window. Because now you know you've got people behind you.

That's when the vision changes. To not what if I can just get around the track and you know, and cut uh a couple seconds off my time. But if I continue to do that, where am I gonna be down the road? We're gonna be champions, right?

We're gonna win whatever cup that is, or what yeah, and that is the difference. It's not getting around the track one time a little bit, a few seconds faster. That's very short-sighted. You need to change your mindset.

SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly. Well said. Well said, Rich. Now, some of you out there listening, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.

It's kind of uh Rich was alluding to. You know, it's this whole thing, if I can just make it through today, if I can just make it through the week, yeah, you know, kind of looking in your rear view rather than looking through the front shield, windshield, right? A lot of people are that way. I want you to know most people do feel that way.

One of the first things that the coach is going to teach you how to do, not just teach you, but teach you how to do it so that you can go and do it, is how to reverse that. So instead of feeling behind, always trying to catch up, feeling overwhelmed, feeling overloaded, feeling like you just can never get that turned around. That's one of the first things that the coach addresses. How do you flip that so that instead of you just reacting to things, you become, you position yourself now to be able to respond to things from a position of real power and real confidence.

So, yes, we understand that. Everybody who comes into coaching, everyone, I would say 99.9% of people, that mindset, I can barely keep up with what it is I've got on now. And you're asking me to do this, this, and this.

That's the trick. You don't know how to flip it. We do. We'll show you how to flip it.

And all of a sudden, instead of being, you know, the tail, you know, wagging the dog, you're now in charge of it. You're gonna be the big dog. SPEAKER_01: The big dog. Yeah, the big dog looking, looking for the down the street, front looking for the next fire hydrant.

I don't know if that's a good instead of the closest fire hydrant, I don't know if that's a uh a good analogy or not. But you know, here's one of the things that that is really important to understand that once you become more familiar with yourself, the development around emotional intelligence, your own skills, your own gaps. And here's the other thing: once you start focusing on your gaps and start leading with your gaps, those gaps now become strengths. They're no longer those areas that you need to worry about.

But unless you do that, unless you work with a coach, unless you get out of this comfort zone and mindset that you're in, that I only am as good as you know, my next test or my next project, and keep comparing yourself to you know a smaller and smaller and smaller group of people, you're gonna plateau. You're gonna level off. And you know, you're gonna start hitting that, you know, that glass ceiling. You hit that glass ceiling and you're gonna bounce right back down.

Pretty soon that's the entire level of your achievement. That glass ceiling. SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right. Challenges become now persistent barriers, yes, rather than challenges that you break through to get to the next level, and so you create your own self-limiting, self-defeating cycle.

That's what's going on. You're doing it probably subconsciously, not even aware of what it is that you're doing, or let alone what is it that I am doing that keeps this thing going like that, keeps fueling itself. And so you've got a choice. And now, this is the big thing that we want to give you some hope here on.

You have a choice, you have your agency to make different decisions. You have available to you help that can help you move beyond that. You're not alone, you're not driving the car all by your lonesome. You've got a team.

You may they may not even know that there is uh there's your team around you. They may not be organized enough to be able to give you that kind of feedback, but we'll help that team come together, congeal around you with the help of the coach that we do, the coaching that we do, plus the different kinds of uh surveys, assessments that we provide, and the organization that we put in to the stakeholder along with your coaching. All that changes the chemistry. Oh, yeah.

It's like you got a you got a pot of soup cooking, and it tastes like crap. You can't figure out what's wrong with it because you put into it, whatever it is. You bring a chef in, they taste it one time and says, Okay, get out of my kitchen. I'm gonna show you.

We're gonna get this done. Starts doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of this, and all of a sudden, but just kind of a blah bland soup. Now it's like, this is delicious. How did you do that?

That's the difference when you're working with an expert. That's what the coach is gonna be able to do for you. Take it something that doesn't just seem to be that workable, and all of a sudden, everything changes. It's your choice, though.

SPEAKER_01: Yep, it changed, and that that's the important part is it changes, starts getting better, starts feeling better, starts looking better. Uh and here's one of the things I think I think we'd be amiss, Michael, if we didn't mention this. This broader pattern that we talked about a little bit before we're done here. And and here's one of those things that says up to 70% of high achievers experienced uh this issue with maybe burnout or lack of feeling that security or imposter syndromes or things.

It's because in many ways this is amplified in fields with rapid change and high-stakes evolution. What is technology, what is engineering, what is math, what is all of these things, if not fields with rapid change and high-stakes evolution. AI is is one of those things now that it's and we see this many times. AI is a phenomenal tool.

We are talking about this. Ten years ago, we would have thought talking about AI and how you know prevalent it is in our work now, we'd have, you know, gosh, that's a space age, right? That's like Jetsons or something. SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: But now I've had this conversation with uh with some people. One is a global director in a very, very large organi uh global tech company. And he's telling his people if you don't learn AI, in six months you'll be out of a job. Holy smokes.

What kind of pressure is that? Here's the thing if you don't start learning about yourself and the ability to make decisions by yourself based on the skills and talents that you have, you are gonna get sucked into that world. You're gonna get sucked in uh further and further into this. I'm not good enough.

Because all the changes in in all these changes. Now, I'm am I saying AI is at fault? Absolutely not. Great tool.

But there's no empathy there. You have to have the empathy for yourself. There's no decision making there. You have to make the decisions by yourself.

It's great for informing decisions, great for creating things. But if you steer away from who you are and start to rely solely on technology, solely on math, solely on all of these things that we see now, and you further and further get away from your own understanding of your own awareness, emotional intelligence, you know, that's going to be a harder place to come back from. SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting that you put it that way. Uh, I like that a lot.

Um when I think of uh a couple of the uh high-tech people that we've known in our society. I think of Steve Jobs, I think of now Elon Musk. And these were two guys, while they were brilliant, hard-driving individuals, brilliant in their ability to see the future, to be able to put together a plan to create that future. They were always great at doing amazing things.

They did not stay in their own little telephone telephone booth. They took it out to the world, they took it to their teams, they had discussions, they had conversations, they worked collaboratively, they worked synergistically with other people. They could do the work alone, but they also brought other people in to now add to it, make it even greater, even bigger, even more wonderful. That's what we're talking about here.

You want to be the Elon Musk of your era or your time, that is, or your place, the one who's brilliant, but also brings the brings it together, throws that vision out there. Let's take the vision, let's challenge ourselves to take it on, let's do these things. Same thing that Steve Jobs did. He saved Apple, created Apple, and came back and saved it.

These are brilliant people. The potential in you, while you may never be an Elon Musk or a Steve Jobs, your potential is still great. Don't don't belittle it, don't throw it away, don't demean it. Get the help.

Let's build it, let's help become that leader that you want to become. It's your choice. It doesn't have to stay this way. That's what we want to do.

There's hope here. SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely. Can you imagine a world of these incredibly bright people, these STEM skills coming out of school or a PhD or already out there that also have uh this phenomenal set of leadership tools and emotional intelligence. Can you imagine where the world be would go with that?

SPEAKER_00: It would be absolutely incredible. SPEAKER_01: It would be incredible. Absolutely. Well, Michael, I I I think we've stem skilled this uh quite a bit today.

SPEAKER_00: I think we have. And just in case you missed it, you can always download it. SPEAKER_01: You can always download it. Uh absolutely.

Uh shout-outs for today. You have any shout-outs? SPEAKER_00: Let's take a look here, what's been going on here lately, in terms of our folks who are tuning into us. Uh, I don't know if we've seen these folks before.

Oslo, Oslo. I don't know if I've seen that one before. Welcome. That would be one that that comes up on my radar here.

Um Edinburgh Edinburgh. There's another one. We've got a couple of double names right there. SPEAKER_01: Edinburgh, well, yep.

And you know, I I have a uh a big Scottish ancestry. Yes, you know, yeah, absolutely Scottish by blood, American by birth is what I always tell people. But it's uh um, yeah, that's great. Welcome, Edinburgh.

SPEAKER_00: That's right. Are there any particulars that you have on your radar? SPEAKER_01: Well, let's look here and um Fulham Hammersmith and Fulham. Welcome.

That's that's a new one. Here's another good one. Alness Highland. I don't know what's going on.

SPEAKER_00: I was just about to mention that. It's gotta be in Scotland. Yeah, yeah. SPEAKER_01: Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: Another one of your ancestors to your cousins. SPEAKER_01: Yeah, somebody. Yeah, somebody. Yeah, uh like I said, I've got you know, all my ancestors are a lot of Scottish, but Danish as well, and English.

That's that's kind of my so anytime I see some of these, yeah. It's great. SPEAKER_00: It's great. Thank you, folks, for listening.

Thank you for spreading the word. We appreciate you very much. All right, if they want to get a hold of us. SPEAKER_01: Well, Michael Bailey, M-A-I-K-E-L Bailey.

com. Um, that's where you can find Michael. A lot of great information out there that he he has uh put together on his website. Um, Rich Baron Executive Coaching, you can find me there.

Uh look for us on the John Matone Global website. All these things that we talk about are tools and skills that we use through John Mattone. A great um, you know, look us up. Let's talk.

LinkedIn, no shortage there, right? But it's not LinkedIn. Yeah. So reach out.

There's there's no ways of of not getting a hold of us. So uh, you know, that's uh I think that's where we at. And until that next time you hear from us, stay safe, right? Take care of each other.

World's changing. World's world's changing. And honestly, it's those people have the the the cool heads, the the emotional intelligence that are gonna prevail and gonna get us through a lot of this. SPEAKER_00: Yes, particularly timely and wise advice.

Yeah, so thank you, Rich. Leaders lead well.