Steward Leadership and a New Book from Eric Alexander

Speaker A: Welcome to Main Street Banking, a podcast for community bankers brought to you by the Barrett School of Banking and ICBA securities. My name is Byron Earnhardt, and I'm

Speaker B: the programming director at Barrett.

Speaker A: It is our mission here to serve the community banking industry with information that is informative, relevant, and hopefully we'll have a little fun along the way. So, from Memphis, Tennessee, home of banking blues and barbecue, welcome to our little corner of the community banking world. And we hope that we can make your bank, your staff, or maybe just even your day a better one.

Speaker B: Well, hey, everybody, welcome back to the Main Street Banking podcast. I know it's been a minute, uh, since I've, uh, done a podcast. We had grad school, some personal stuff come up, but I've been thinking about y' all and been looking forward to this episode with my good friend Eric Alexander. We've had him on before. He's taught for us. He's just one of my favorite people, uh, and that I've met in my career. But he has written a book and it is, um, from what I've read so far, it is going to be one of those must reads. And so before, I guess, in anticipation of everybody getting this book, I wanted to get Eric on here to, to talk about the book and talk about some of the ideas behind it. So, Eric, welcome to back to the show. Uh, tell us a little bit about yourself about Six Arrows Consulting, and then we'll get into the book.

Speaker C: Great. So, Byron, thank you. Love getting to do this. We've had lots of fun conversation. Loved getting to come have my first time with the students on campus back in May. Y' all are doing a neat thing. Uh, just so grateful for you and how, how you and the team there are taking good care of helping raise up next generation of bank leaders. So, yeah, little bit about me. Texas boy. I'm here in Amarillo, Texas. Uh, my wife and I have six grown sons, got a bunch of daughters in law, six daughters in law, and a good pass full of grandkids. And so they call me the Pappy. And my day job is running Six Arrows Consulting. 40 years of finance experience. 20 of those in the CFO seat, half of that as CFO at a bank here in Texas. Happy State Bank. It sold about four years ago. And when that sold, I thought, I want to do something different. So I've been focusing on leadership development with a stewardship focus, doing workshops, coaching, strategic planning, the occasional special project, and teaching at banking schools, speaking here and there, writing. I'm just having a blast. And the message about stewardship and how that's a vital part of leadership resonates. And I'm hearing positive feedback on how that's helping people reset their mindset, uh, about their leadership. Just about everywhere I talk about it, and anytime I'm talking about leadership, I make sure we talk about stewardship too.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I gotta tell you too, of that, that resetting. It's interesting you use that phrase, that resetting the mindset came up verbatim a time or two in your evaluations, which, by the way, came back outstanding. Um, but it came up a lot in the evaluations for your leadership class that, uh, you taught for us in the senior year at grad school. So echoed that I'm seeing the same thing. Before we get into the book, um, because the book is on steward leadership, let's define for us what you mean by steward leadership.

Speaker C: Sure. And let me, Let me back up and say this too. When I say I'm talking about stewardship all the time. I am. And when I started this journey, I knew I wanted to focus on leadership. And as I got engaged with talking to people, I don't remember where in that early process, but I realized I have to talk about stewardship. And of course it has roots in my Christian faith, but it has application in all of life for leaders. For sure. Bank leaders. For sure. Banks are stewards. Bank leaders anyway. So it's all over leadership. But it's not that I was consciously thinking about stewardship throughout my journey. It's more when I reflect back. I realize when I was most effective is when I was thinking through those principles in what I was doing. So if I were to quickly define how I think about stewardship, the steward has been entrusted with certain things, and he or she is responsible for those. And it often when I do this, I will tell a story about one of my jobs in high school where I was entrusted with something. It was menial, but I was a steward. Somebody had entrusted responsibilities to me and I was accountable to that person who had done the entrusting. Uh, and wrapped up in all of it was trust. I had been entrusted. Somebody had done the entrusting. So trust is a key aspect of it. But maybe the most fundamental aspect is if I'm a steward, the whole thing is not about me. Now I'm in the middle of it. It's about me in the sense of I am a steward. But the benefit of, uh, what I'm up to, the purpose of why I'm in the role is fundamentally for other people. Now I do get benefit. If I'm stewarding and work, hopefully I'm getting a paycheck, I get a sense of accomplishment. Uh, when the team and I get some things done, there's all that. But fundamentally, I'm there for somebody else's benefit. And when I think about my leadership that way, it really does make a difference. And it's not a sense of, ah, uh, dang it. This isn't about me. It's more, ooh. This is about something bigger than me. I am helping serve other people. I'm serving values that are important to us. I'm serving future generations. That's a stewardship mindset. And it's interesting in my coaching, in my speaking, sometimes it takes a little bit to unpack it of, okay, what are we talking about?

Speaker B: What do you mean?

Speaker C: But generally the response has been, oh, I get that. And that's a powerful lens that people are looking at their leadership through now.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think It's. And I 100% agree. And I think it's an important lens not only for leadership, but I think anybody in banking. Yes. In the sense that, you know, it's, it's not about me, it's about, you know, doing for the bank and all that. But when you think about what it is we do in banking. Yes. From the CEO to the part time teller working the, the coin sorting machine. And that was my first job. So I, uh, uh, work in that you are handling people's, their greatest fears, their expectations, their dreams. That's not touchy feely, hokey stuff. You and I are both finance guys. You know, our inclination is not all that necessarily touchy feel. But at the same time, without a bank, what does a community have? It's the development and it's important I tell my students this. And, um, uh, well, in Barrett and in my, in my undergraduate classes, we hold people's blood, sweat and tears as represented by their paychecks.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like you said, I love what I do, but Chris is going to pay me. Right. And so all the work that I, all the work that I, that I do, all the work that you did do, I mean, you get a paycheck for it. That's, that's the represented representation of that work. And so if you're putting that in the bank. Feel certain you are. I am. Uh, then you're trusting that bank with a whole lot of brain cell power, time, sweat, energy, if we remember that, that shifts the focus. And that's why I love what you talk about.

Speaker C: Well, one of the Things sitting in the CFO role. So nearly 10 years there at the bank, most of that time in the CFO role. Every now and then I needed a good reminder of we're looking at all these numbers and we need to know the numbers and they're important. But on the balance sheet, go look at those deposits. On the other side of every number there, there's a person. Now sometimes you get into some of the more arcane things in the balance sheet. It's a little less clear exactly who is that person. But it's all about people. It's their deposits, it's the money they've borrowed from us that we are trusting they will pay back. And so we have to be trustworthy in how we handle the bank's resources when we extend that credit credit. But it's their businesses, it's their homes, it's the fees they're paying, it's the income they're generating. There are people on every other side of all the numbers. As a finance person, I need that reminder. A bank literally is a steward, particularly with the depositors and the shareholders holding. And this is not just holding for the depositors. We're basically holding the funds, we're putting them to use. We're making enough yield there that we can pay them some cost of funds, pay them some interest and retain the difference to do all this stuff. But there's sometimes with the stewardship, uh, focus, if we're not careful, we can feel like we're just hunkering down and protecting. In fact, early on in my journey of talking about this stuff, in my six Arrows teaching, I had two different entrepreneurs about a year apart say to me, eric, there's a piece of this that we need to emphasize more. There is also the let's take what's been entrusted to it and let's grow it. And both of them independently, different industries, different states, a, ah, year apart took me to the parable of the talents in scripture of look at the ones that were commended by the Master. Jesus said, well done, good. The Master said, well done good and faithful servant to the ones who took it and grew it and protected it. But it's not just about hunkering down and you know, sticking it off in a box. And you know, there's no, there's no detriment, there's no lack of, no loss of the capital. But there's also let's make it productive, let's do what's important for its long term flourishing. And that that's part of what stewardship Is we do it as parents. We do it uh, we're not just making short term decisions. We're helping them. Helping our kids do the hard things of you got to eat your vegetables. Yes. You need to do your homework, be responsible with your phones, learn how to. We do all the things why we are helping steward our relationship with them for their long term good and we get a little benefit out of it. They embarrass us less in public when we do a reasonably good job.

Speaker B: Reasonably. Less reasonably. Yeah. And it's interesting you mentioned that that that parable because it's the, it's the steward that did nothing and went and hit it. To your further your point. The steward that did nothing and went and hit it. The master said you should have put it in the bank anyway and get interest.

Speaker C: Well it's a, it's an endorsement of what banks do. We.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Safe place to hold. Why the bank is stewarding. Well let's do that. Really?

Speaker B: Well absolutely, absolutely. Great, great, great lesson there.

Speaker C: Let's pay attention to what's going on and all the uh. What did the regulators do for us as bankers? They helped us have a way to think about our risks. Camels, the capital asset quality management, earnings liquidity, interest rate sensitivity. Let's pay attention to those why we manage risk for the benefit of others, for the health of the organization and, and who benefits from that? The shareholders do. The communities do, the customers do, the employees do, the employees families do. If we don't do a good job at that we are. There's the potential for harm and a whole bunch of constituencies that, that came,

Speaker B: that lesson came home to me, came home to me. Um, in production when I was uh, in production. And I think I've told this story on here before, maybe even told it to you. If I'm repeating myself I apologize. But um, I had you know I got thrown into the deep end on ag learning how underwriting ag credits and the first year I did it I was uh, I didn't know what I was doing. But uh now how the shop owner knew that the person's credit. I mean small town, everybody knows who banks where. But I had, I had the shop owner, it was actually my cousin come up to me and asked me when I was gonna, you know when is so and so's farm loan gonna be gonna be done. Because uh, there was and they were great people. There was no problem with it. But Byron learning the, the process was taking longer and there had been some stuff, there had been some stuff put on credit at the store. And he needed to know when he was getting paid. Well, it made me realize you, that very point. I gotta, you know, learning how to do, Doing it the right way impacts all the other, all the other, the stuff and the economy of the, uh, of the town. So everything was fine, credit got done, nobody went under. But it was still an important lesson to learn.

Speaker C: Well, uh, you, you said something there that sparks a piece we need to remember. You said somebody came and asked you a question. Okay. Now, you gave an answer that hopefully was within the boundaries of what you were allowed to disclose.

Speaker B: It was. It was. Yeah.

Speaker C: But think, think about this. And I know we're talking a whole lot about banks, but this applies in a, uh, in every setting. We're talking about banks because this is Main Street, Main street banking.

Speaker B: Right, Right.

Speaker C: What else do we steward? Think about that teller on the front line. She's not just taking care of the cash drawer. She is also protecting and stewarding confidential information. She can't go home and talk to her, her boyfriend, or, you know, her parents about, hey, guess who made this big deposit today? Or guess who had all these NSF problems? And we, we can't do that. We are stewards for somebody else's benefit. The bank's reputation, the customer relationship, these are all things that somebody on the front line who may still be working in high school or college, we as a bank are entrusting them with things that are super valuable, including the money. But beyond the money. A supervisor is responsible for the productive output of the team and the development of the team and helping them grow for the future. It's it, it's everywhere. And when we look at it that way, I've been entrusted. I've got to be trustworthy. How do I maximize my contribution in a way that pays attention to all the risks and all the opportunities for the benefit of somebody else. Wow, that's inspiring. That's a reason I want to get up and go to work on a Monday morning.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And I, I wish we. And I wish we as an industry. And I get why. Uh, it's, it's constantly. There's, the regulations are changing. There's always something to do that I wish we as an industry collectively more stopped and paused and thought about that, about that more. And look, I'm guilty of that too. I've, you know, again, ag lending season, I was not thinking about anything. You know, it was get the, get the under. Get the credit underwritten. But, you know, I wish we thought more about that because it is, It'll change. It'll change the way the entire bank perceives how they do their job. And if you want to talk about customer service numbers, you want to talk about culture and all that. My opinion, unwarranted though, as it is, uh, that you want to start with a culture change or shift, that this idea of steward leadership ought to be things. Uh, you ought to be point one, and then everything else kind of filters should filter from there, even if it's not point one.

Speaker C: If we at least implicitly include the principles trustworthy, being accountable, being responsible, remembering who it's all about.

Speaker B: Uh, absolutely.

Speaker C: This isn't trademarked for me. I've just. I've come to realize the significance of the biblical principle in all of life and in business. And it doesn't matter to me what it's called, but I'm passionate about, hey, let's do it, whatever we call it, Right?

Speaker B: Well, let's get into the book because you. We've spent, uh, several years talking on podcast and webinars. What made you sit down? Don't, first of all, tell us about the book, the name and all that, but what prompted you to sit down and, uh, write a book?

Speaker C: Okay, well, here's the title, Stewardship Leadership for Stinking Accountants. And the subtitle is serving as the CFO, and it comes out July 31st. So depending on when you're listening to this, you can either pre order it or you can go order order it. It's, uh, available out there in all the places you can get your books. So, um, let me explain the title for a minute, then I'll go to the question of where did this come from?

Speaker B: Yeah,

Speaker C: I had a CEO I worked for at the bank who called me Stinking Accountant. Okay, now it's stinking with the, uh, apostrophe instead of the G. You have to say stinkin, not stinking. Uh, the publisher, when he first heard the title I was thinking about, he just laughed and laughed. And for a while, the emails he would send me had to. They were always about odor and olfactory senses and this and that. So the stinking really got his attention. It's a derogatory term, but often it's a playfully derogatory term. Um, it's not dissimilar to my peers on the executive team at the bank who made fun of me being short. You can't tell this is a podcast, so you don't know my size. I'm five foot six. Okay? I'm not big, at least not in that dimension. So they would Tease me about that. And it was good natured. The CEO was, you know, picking on me, uh, but good naturedly. And I worked for several years to try to get him to confirm that it was a term of endearment. He never would. But here's, here's why I worked it into the title one. It grabs your attention if you go into a bookstore and you go down the. You don't see a phrase like this frequently. So it's designed to grab attention. But also it's a way to say, as finance leaders, people in the CFO role and other finance leaders. It's not unusual for people not to understand our role or maybe not even appreciate our role. That's okay. They'll call us the cf. No, they'll call us the bean calendars. The green eye shade types. You know, the ones who are looking out the rear view mirror while we're barreling ahead at 80 miles an hour. You know, all the things where they make fun of us.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: And sometimes we contribute to that. You know, some stereotypes arise for a reason. But here's, here's how I explain it in the introduction. I'm not here to make fun of you or diminish your role. We as, uh, CFOs, as finance leaders, we have a significant role. We take it very seriously. We have to take it seriously, but we don't have to take ourselves too seriously. And if people don't get it, we can still contribute in a large way, in a significant way, whether they ever appreciate it or not. It's not about me. So I'm a stinking accountant, but I'm going to be a steward leader who stewards and leads. Well, that, that's what it's about. So here's where the book came from. When I started the Six Arrows Journey about four years ago, uh, it was not on my. My business plan. My business plan was focused on coaching, mentoring, leadership development workshops, strategic planning, all the services I provide through Six Arrows. And early on, I had an opportunity to teach at another banking school. It's one where I had gone when I was in banking and I proposed a course. I said, I don't see this in the curriculum anywhere. I think it would be fruitful to do a class on the role of the community bank Chief financial officer, the cfo. And so they molded around, wanted to see what am I thinking? And they said, yes, let's do that. So I crafted it. What's the role of the cfo? Its stewardship, its leadership? What are the key things that we're responsible for. It's all about communication and protecting what are the challenges we face? What are the opportunities we have? What are the keys for effectiveness? So that was m my rough outline. And then I polled about 20 different people that I'd worked with closely at the bank, external auditors, directors, executives, other CFOs and said give. I gave them about six open ended questions. Tell me what you think about the role of the cfo. So I took their wisdom, compiled it, incorporated it into the course. I now taught that course for the fourth time about three weeks ago and

Speaker B: then

Speaker C: finished the course. And I thought, ooh, this ought to be a book. So the outline of the course became the outline of the book. And then I started working on it between engagements and around engagements and wrapped it up late last year. And I've been on the publishing and editing process now and it comes out just a few weeks.

Speaker B: Well, I'm excited and uh, I was for you. You did me great honor buddy, while asking me for a quote and doing a preview read. And it was. I'm truly excited about it. I really do think it's. I'm kind of a big fan of the, these types of books because there is a lot of, there is a lot of junk out there. This obviously is not one of them. But when you find one of those that are really solid and good, they can really change the way uh, you perceive, you think, you know, the way you kind of go about this part of your, of your life, this part of your day, the third of your day in the eight hours third of your day that you're devoting, if not more devoting to work. Um, and so I think it's important to constantly feed, be curious and feed that and feed that, that, that engine in your brain that's thinking about this. That's why I'm m excited about it. Having heard you talk about this and our conversations webinars and the conversations offline, um, I think it's going to be one of those books that really will shift how you, how we think. Now you mentioned um, and very grateful again for, for your being part of our faculty and um, I'm very excited about the direction that that's going. You mentioned that you spend a lot of time in teaching and working with leadership and stuff. I wanted to kind of pick your brain, uh, what you're seeing through this stewardship mod, the stewardship lens in terms of that young executive, that young up and comer every just got back from West Virginia, getting ready to go to Ohio and got Two or three more states, uh, on the calendar in the next few months. So everywhere I'm hearing is succession, succession, succession planning, uh, even more than what last year was. How, what are you seeing? What's the pulse out there for stewardship, steward leadership and that succession planning, how is that working itself out right now?

Speaker C: Okay, so let me, let me do that in three parts, all right? Talk about how the message has been resonating in general. And then I want to look at the succession planning aspect from two ends. Okay. The board and upper management and then from up and coming leaders.

Speaker B: So, okay.

Speaker C: Uh, it's been fascinating to me and I don't take credit for this. It's more, I believe the concepts are compelling and I've found a way to talk about it that I think helps make it really practical. If we just talked esoterically and used big abstract terms, that's not very helpful. But when I've been able to talk with people, whether it's one on one coaching or with the students there at the Barrett School or workshops and various topics, stewardship, accountability, leadership, infrastructure development, growing as a leader, a variety of things that are in the book, but also just things I talk about. The ideas are resonating and I've seen it in, I've seen it some of the coaching engagements. I'm working with somebody who's relatively new in the executive role, for instance, and we've talked about the principles. And then a business decision comes up and this person says, oh, there's a stewardship way to think about that. Here's how I need to think about that. Mission done, I'm through, you don't need me anymore. And I'm being facetious, but yeah, that's, that's what it's about. Where it gets translated. It's not just a flavor of the day, but it's a mindset about how we lead. It's a mindset about how we serve. And I, uh, love it when somebody latches on to that and it leads to practical decisions that are, take those principles into account. So that's, there's that, yeah, uh, part of the stewardship in an organization for the upper leadership, upper management, the board, CEO, the C suite, is to realize the succession of. Is an issue that by definition does not go away. Right. Given, ah, assuming some kind of continuity of time, you know, we don't. How long, don't know how long we have, but assuming some duration of time and human mortality and the fact that many of us don't want to work till we just Drop. True succession is a fact. It's amazing to me how little attention it gets given that truth. There is a continual need for succession at every level to be thought through carefully at the board. Uh, for small banks, sometimes it's at the shareholder level, it's definitely at the leadership level. And if you're not paying attention to it as a bank, the regulators will come beat you about the years in a very professional way to make sure you are at least talking about it. But it is part of the stewardship and it's hard. It's hard. It's hard for leaders, especially if they're a founder, if it's a part of a family, to envision a future that they're not driving the ship, or at least not even on the ship, or maybe somebody else owns the ship. That's hard. And I've seen it go well. I've seen it not go well. And a lot of that is all around human aspects of some really difficult things. Um, quick example of going well in a non business situation. We're in the middle of a succession transition right now. At our church, I had the privilege of getting to lead the search committee. Our young pastor died a couple months ago. We were very fortunate that we already providentially had a strong, strong, obvious candidate on board in another role. It made our work really, really easy. Sometimes though, that's not the case. And those transitions are uh, fraught with peril and they require attention, they require selflessness, they require making hard decisions. Um, I've seen it over and over again. I've seen it where it's neglected and it comes up and bites the bank in the rear. Uh, so part of it as a steward, if you're in a leader in one of those spots, talk about it, begin to at least talk about it and make some plans because it is something that is your reality. It may not happen on the same kind of frequency as a lot of other things on your radar, but it is something you need to be stewarding towards. That's one angle.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. This. And as you were talking, I hadn't thought about the uh, in terms of success regarding succession planning. The, the, the, the idea of stewardship paralleling that it's not about me because that is a huge. And understandably it's not right. But it's understandable that, you know, CEO, an owner, shareholder, a family, whatever. It's hard to let go of what we've been fortunate enough to build. It's hard to do that.

Speaker C: It's Hard to get wrapped up in it. I didn't value as a person gets wrapped up in it.

Speaker B: Uh, right, wrong or indifferent. Like I said, I'm not saying it's necessarily the most mentally healthy of all attitudes, but it does happen. It's understandable. Um, you know, this idea of steward leadership, this idea of stewardship vis a vis succession, that's a big idea and a big mind shift that I think the industry needs to embrace and buy your book, obviously, but, uh, yeah, do that. But I think definitely, at the very least, embrace the idea of if we're going to have a serious talk within the bank and in the industry on succession, I think the conversation's got to start checking yourself on if you view yourself as a steward or is this Byron's world and it's going to go the way Byron wants? Well, you know.

Speaker C: Well, a key aspect of being a steward is we do the hard things. M. Now, M. It's not like we do what's hard on purpose. It's more in the natural flow of what comes before us. There are hard things to do and we do them. We need to have a challenging conversation with somebody. I need to go ask forgiveness for something. I need to, you know, whatever. We do hard things, good stewardship involves doing the hard things of addressing the reality that succession will happen. Are we going to prepare to minimize the pain, or are we going to let it just. Are we going to let the train wreck just unfold because we did not have the courage to have the challenging conversations with ourself and with each other? And here I'm talking mainly shareholders, board, upper management. Um, but then there's the other sense of as stewards, we have to tackle the issue. But then another thing we do as stewards, and when I'm talking about succession, it can make it sound like it's all hard. It's not necessarily all hard. When it goes well. I've seen it go well. Uh, y' all made a referral. You and Chris made a referral for me to somebody that was needing some help with some strategic planning. I came in and did some work with them. They were doing an amazing job with succession. They were thoughtful about it. They were communicating clearly. They had clarity about who is in what lane. When have a blog article on this came out recently anyway. So, um, it can. It can go well. And when it goes well, it's a beautiful thing. But often it does not go well. And human personalities and human fears and hopes get tied up in ways that aren't always helpful. There's another thing, though, that can help us. Each of us in our role need to realize that the organization is likely to outlive us. Not always, but often. And I want to leave. I was fortunate to have a predecessor at the bank who left her role that I stepped into in a really good shape. I inherited a strong team. I inherited processes that were working well. I inherited folks that loved the bank, loved doing good work, embraced the culture and the values. So my objective then, I want to leave it in better shape than I found it. That should be all of our objectives. If it's about me, it's about what do I reap from it during my tenure. If it's not about me, it's how do others benefit while I'm here. And when I'm not here, I want to be developing the pipeline. This will lead to the other part. From the minute, the younger leaders. I want to be developing the pipeline. So we're not scrambling to find somebody who can maybe sort of kind of COVID half the job. I want us to have a profusion of really strong candidates that could be considered, should be considered. So what can I do to own the role in a way that I'm leaving it stronger, including who could step into my shoes? Now, I'm not saying it's always the internal candidates that are best interested. So how about I jump to that other part?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: I think one of the best things up and coming leaders can do, the younger batches like you see at Barrett, I think generally you're seeing the ones that are earlier in their leadership. Maybe, what, eight, 10, 12 years of banking leadership roles for maybe half of that, right?

Speaker B: Yes. Ballpark. That's generally what we're kind of the median. Yeah.

Speaker C: So there was. I, uh, want to go sideways for a minute, tell a story, and then come back to this. Uh, one of the things I got to do at the bank, because I love doing it, was help grow my own people in the finance department, but also provide insights to other leaders, new leaders that were coming up, interns, new credit analysts, new officers, whatever. And you've got these people that are hungry for growth, hungry to accomplish, make their mark. Um, and sometimes they'll approach it with a what do I need to do? So I'll stand out. And there's a place for healthy ambition. But what I encourage them to do is focus less on your individual success. You focus on how you can make your whole team successful. And then think broadly about your team, maybe your loan administration. I need to know my stuff. I want to do it really well, I want to be the best loan processor supervisor in here, but I also want my peers to do well. Okay, how can I help them succeed? How can I collaborate and then think upstream and downstream? Who depends on what we provide? Who is providing inputs to us? How can I help them succeed when my focus turns to a broader view of where all the connections are in my contribution and I'm not just thinking about me. Okay, that sounds like a stewardship mindset. Uh, leaders notice that those are the kinds of people that I would want to put in a new position. Look at how you are. Yes, you're doing good individual work, but you're doing good individual work in a way that fosters the health of the broader organization. You live the values. So part of what I would encourage is grow your contribution. Broadly understood. And it's not just technical, it's also the values. It's your own accountability practices. The more you can steward, the more you're setting yourself up to be a steward leader. And that gets you on the track where at some point, ooh, here's somebody that can be that successor for the cfo. Maybe not right now, but let's take her and give her some broadening assignments. Let's send her to banking school and let's get her ready so she can sit in that seat someday.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You just hit the nail on the head. The idea of, you know, where education falls. I don't know. I know this is a bit self serving, but where education fits into there, you get somebody with that kind of, um, a M Mindset. Uh, I can't teach that. I can teach the banking. I can teach the credit analysis. I can teach the, the financial statements. I'm not the world's best at the investment portfolio, but I can, you know, I can muddle my way through it, right? I can teach the banking part. Part, I can't teach easily that mindset. Uh, you can teach it, obviously, but if you've got somebody like that, then the teaching the banking part just, just fits right in hand in glove. It's smooth as silk.

Speaker C: And sometimes what I find is we can get so operationally and technically focused and so quick side note on that, the book is not technical, it's not academic, it's not dry. Uh, there are a whole lot of finance books out there. There are a whole lot of leadership books out there. This is the intersection of leadership and finance. And there's even some, some subtle Eric style dad humor along the way that. Anyway, so you don't want to miss

Speaker B: I would expect nothing less on the technical operational.

Speaker C: It's easy for us to focus on that as the key to our competence. And we've got to have it and we've got to keep growing in it. But leaders, if that's where we stop, and this is true even for those that are not literally in a supervisory leadership role, I believe we lead whether we can lead, whether we're in a, uh, managerial supervisory role or not.

Speaker B: Oh, sure, yeah.

Speaker C: But even people who come strong with that, they can get inspired with the thought of, ah, uh, if I will develop some of these other leadership skills, if I'll get good at accountability even though it's hard, if I'll grow in my communication, if I will embrace the idea that this isn't just all about me and be trustworthy and extend trust, if I will do these other things. Ah, uh, this, this is, this is inspiring.

Speaker B: Really is. Really is. Well, Eric, you, you know, you and I both could sit here all day and chat on this and there's 300 other questions I've got and, and all that, but what's a, what's the final word? And then tell us to how we can pre order or depending on when you're listening to it, order, Order the book.

Speaker C: Okay, so the easiest way to get to the book is to go to my website, 6arrowsconsulting.com and that's 6 the number spelled out, and there's a page for the book. Or just go to Amazon, it's already out there, and just search for stewardship leadership for stinking accountants, and it will take you to that. Um, and yes, I would love to hear your feedback on the book from any of your folks that decide to give it a try.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I'll have, uh, the link to his website on the show notes only because, um, his website is full of really, really good stuff. So not only go pre order the book, but go spend some time over on his site reading his stuff. Uh, if you're not familiar with Eric, uh, get a good idea of his content. Not just for content sake, but kind of like what he was saying, just to kind of get inspired and shift your mindset a little bit. Even just spend just 20 minutes just kind of thinking differently. It'll pay huge dividends down the road. I can, I can assure you of that.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker B: So Eric, um, good to see, as always, we're definitely gonna have you back on def after the, um, after the book release. I'm sure we'll be doing some other stuff with you on this because like I said, there's so much you probably need to read the book first and then we'll do, we'll do some more around that. But anyway, but as always, good to see you. Thanks for your time today.

Speaker C: Thank you. Delightful as always. Thanks, Byron.

Speaker A: Well, that wraps up our episode for today. Thank you for listening. If you haven't already, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast so you won't miss out on the latest episode. We'd also appreciate a, uh, five star rating as well as that will help get the content out to more listeners. We appreciate ICBA securities for their sponsorship and if you would like to know more about quality investment products, services and education at competitive prices, check out their website@icbasecurities.com and finally, if you don't follow Barrett on our social media platforms, be sure to check us out on LinkedIn, Twitter and Facebook to stay up to date with all the cool new things

Speaker B: that we've got coming up.

Speaker A: And as always, from Memphis, Tennessee, the home of banking, blues and barbecue. Thanks again for tuning in and we hope you have a great day.