John Scott: On Camera Charisma, Looking and Sounding Your Best

Speaker A: You're listening to the Lisa Wentz Show. Thank you for being here. I'm thrilled to have you. Let's get started. Today's guest is John D. Scott. He's a public Speaking coach with 25 years experience in technical voice development. In March of 2020, in response to the pandemic, he founded Video Coaching for Business. His clients include business founders, coaches, and professional speakers. John is passionate about helping his clients combine technical excellence in vocal production. Easy for me to say. With an emphasis on being a real human being in front of the camera. Welcome, John.

Speaker B: Thank you, Lisa. Great to be here.

Speaker A: So I love that you emphasize being real on camera in your bio because I think this can be tricky. This is a tricky area for many people. How do we feel authentic reality when we're speaking into a camera lens? That question comes up a lot for me. Um, would you like to elaborate on this or some thoughts on it?

Speaker B: Absolutely. We find that people don't speak in their native tongue or their native tone when they start to speak on camera. So we all have a normal tone of voice that we use when we talk to our friends. But. But when somebody begins to talk on camera, often it gets kind of weird. They start doing things like speaking too high or too fast or too slow. So we get them, um, to talk on camera kind of at length. Like we say, go out and talk to your camera, to your phone for five minutes and describe what you see. And eventually they get in touch with their native language, what they really sound like. And then we're able to show them, hey, this is what you really sound like. Don't do this, what you just did.

Speaker A: I love that technique. I would have never thought of it and I'm stealing it from you. Okay. M. So when you say native tongue, native tone, is that, uh, similar to or the same thing as natural charisma? Would you call it similar or no?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's how you would be if you are having an animated conversation with your friends at a publisher.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And sometimes you do need to bring the energy up for a video or for if you're doing a bigger event. But usually once somebody hears themselves back and they realize, oh, uh, that's actually not the real me. We also sometimes will use speech analysis software and show them. So for instance, we had one of our clients had released a video on LinkedIn and we showed him that he was actually speaking almost a full octave higher, uh, on LinkedIn than he does normally. Mhm.

Speaker A: I find that happens when people are nervous, you know, that your Pitch goes up slightly. Is that kind of common as well for you to notice?

Speaker B: It could go that way. A lot of times, people. Actually more common, in my view, is to go into a monotone, because to kind of move your voice around takes a little bit of confidence. And so a lot of times people sort of squash their vocal range if they're getting started, but everybody's a little different, so you just have to kind of take them where they are and get them to be natural.

Speaker A: Right, got it. And so, you know, another thing I'd heard you say in the past is that you help people be more expressive on camera. So we're sort of in that zone talking about that now. One of the things that I noticed. So we're talking about voice, but a thing I noticed on camera with my clients, they tend to just be very stiff, sort of wooden if they're not used to it yet. Now I have clients that are used to it, and they've gotten practice, and they've gotten much better very quickly. But initially, it's as if they stiffen up. They're very wooden, and it just looks like they're just reading. Um, and is this when you see that? Is that when you say, hey, take your phone out and video yourself just talking about what you see outside, Is that what you do in a moment like that, or do you do something else?

Speaker B: Um, no. If they were working with us in a session or in a group workshop, then we would, um. If they're stiff, the use of the hands, I think, is really important. So what we do is we get them to bring their hands into frame. And because a lot of the time, if you don't see somebody's hands on video, we don't really trust them. So helping them to bring their hand in the frame and start talking with their hands will often sort of psychologically loosen them up. Um, and then, you know, there's a bunch of wacky exercises that we can do. I'm sure you have a lot, too.

Speaker A: Oh, I want to hear. I want to hear about one of your wacky exercises. Come on.

Speaker B: Okay, well, um, you know, would you say, okay, loosen up. Like, let's. Let's have you move your shoulders up and down and, you know, shake your head and just, you know, just kind of get the body activated. Um, and that helps. I think that, um, oftentimes just switching somebody out of the position that I'm giving a speech and into the mental framework that I'm having a conversation, that will usually work itself, that will usually solve the problem. Pretty quickly.

Speaker A: Okay, that's, uh, wonderful for me to transition into again, the specifics with camera work. Years and years and Years ago, early 20s, I was taking a commercial acting class and I was obviously not doing very well with it. And the coach said, just imagine that's your best friend in the camera. It's your best friend in there. See your best friend in the camera and talk to your best friend. And so I started doing that and I saw my best friend, Dana, and she said, Lisa, this is B.S. let's go get a drink. That's what she said back to me. Apparently in the camera, um, it didn't work for me, basically. So I'm wondering, so switching the mental framework from I'm giving a speech, which I think can go to being a live situation, you know what I mean, to the camera situation, that's kind of common, uh, to I'm having a conversation, but then there's this added element that that conversation is happening through a lens. Right? Absolutely. Not to another human being. So, um, any other tricks or thoughts on that? How does the person make that camera their friend? Or is that even language you would use?

Speaker B: Actually, yeah. Uh, you know, my partner Ruggiero always says that. So I suspect that. I don't know if it came out of the London acting scene, but, um, it didn't.

Speaker A: It was San Francisco.

Speaker B: San Francisco. Okay. Well, in any case, um, you know, there's a lot of aspects to it. I would say that one of the techniques that I like to use is what I call the interference narrative. So imagine that you have two states of mind. You can be in the good state is awareness. So if I'm in the awareness state, I am perceiving, I am present to what's happening with my body and my audience. What we don't want the bad state is interference. So interference could be thoughts like, oh, I wish I hadn't said that, or oh, what's going to happen? Or what just happened? It's kind of something that pulls you out of the current moment. So the interference narrative is have your client record a 1 minute video or speech and then play it back to them and say, now what was really going on? You know, what were you thinking while you were speaking? And they'll say, oh, I wish I hadn't said that. And like, uh, oh, my voice sounds weird here. Or they'll, they'll, they give voice to the interference. So you, you recognize it, you start to go, oh, that's interference. And then we say, okay, so now you know what interference is. Let's get back to awareness. And you could just use something like, you know, what does it feel like to rub your fingers together? You could be aware of the sensation of your hands starting to get a little sweaty if you rub your fingers together and then you just speak as if you're not thinking. So that's uh, another tool that I like to use.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that really, because strong presence on film or our live performance. Live meaning, of course, on stage or in person. So much of what strong presence is, by my definition is being present, not being in our heads, but being present with what's in front of us, taking in information with what's in front of us and listening, listening to our audiences. With the camera, you don't have the ability to listen as much, but you certainly have the ability to be there and free of being blocked in and chained into what's going on in the back of our minds. I suppose. Um, listen, I want to switch gears just ever so slightly, uh, to why do you think that speaking on camera is so important and how does it help people grow their businesses? Because that's part of what you're really doing when you're helping your clients, right? You're helping them to put themselves out there in a sort of bigger way, I suppose, than life.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, we think it's really important. I think that, um, you know, it's easy to kind of imagine right now that a lot of people are getting into video. It's very true. But if you go through your LinkedIn network right now and look at how many of your contacts and friends are regular release, regularly releasing videos that are about their business, it's very, very few.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: And so it's easy to see how being present on video offers incredible advantages. First of all, if you're going to hire a coach, you would want to see that coach speaking, you would want to see them talking, you would want to get to know them. So it's much easier to make a buying decision from somebody that you can see on the camera. Secondly, if you're a founder, you know, so many of the startups right now that, that have products coming to market, they have these explainer videos. It's kind of an animated thing and you see the cartoon guy moving and the graphics going this way, that way. Well, okay, imagine Apple computers with an explainer video. It never would have gone anywhere. It's about the voice of the founder. So we think that if you can get over this initial roadblock, which is the fear of the camera, that you have insane advantages with whatever it is you're doing.

Speaker A: Mhm. Now you had said something about LinkedIn and I'm interpreting what you were saying as because there's so few videos, if you have a video, people are more likely to hit it and watch it. They're more likely to click on it. Is that what you meant by that?

Speaker B: Not exactly.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: It's certainly great to have a video, but what we're talking about is being on video regularly. So you just put out a one minute video once a week. And that this video is not just sort of, you know, hi, I'm M. Lisa Wentz and this is my profession and these are my credentials. And it's not a professional video, it's a social video.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And so the social videos are to take part in a conversation that's happening asynchronously.

Speaker A: So the person, they're getting to know you over time, is that what's basically what you're getting at?

Speaker B: Exactly. Because they need to see you. They need to see you at least seven times, um, before they're going to want to move forward with you.

Speaker A: Really? So that's researched. That's a statistic.

Speaker B: Yeah. You're always nailing me on my citations.

Speaker A: No, it's okay. I believe you. I believe you. I believe you. I just didn't know that that was the thing. I just didn't know.

Speaker B: I think. Yeah.

Speaker A: I have a question for you here. So we've talked about, uh, people who are off voice in Lisa language would be called off voice to not be speaking with their authentic voice, uh, stiff and sort of wooden. What about when you have somebody walk in the room and they're overly expressive, they're all over the place. All of a sudden you've got like a Robin Williams type person in your. In the room. Do you ever have that happen and you kind of want to reel them in a little bit or no.

Speaker B: Oh def. Definitely. Yeah. So, um, you know, my approach to the overactive speaker is to work with breathing and pausing.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I think that it's funny, but it's very difficult. From my experience. I'd be interested from your perspective, but to get a student to be able to pause sometimes is really hard work. Just to slow down, to take a second, to formulate a thought and then deliver it. There's a lot of advantages to pausing. The first advantage is your listener gets a chance to digest what you just said. And secondly, it gives you a chance to articulately form the next thought that's coming. So if somebody's really over amped up and they're over expressing. Then I would force them into a cadence where they are pausing.

Speaker A: Mhm. Got it. And is there. What do you think that um, what do you think the differences are in terms of being a great on camera speaker versus a great stage speaker, so to speak? Or do you think there's, or do you think there's many differences?

Speaker B: Well, I do think that it is different. So a lot of it boils down to experience. If you're talking to camera, a lot of, then you're probably going to be better at that. But there is a disadvantage to the camera in that you don't get that initial feedback. Uh, you don't get the energy in the room. So you do have to be very secure in yourself and to be able to really stay with the camera lens not 100% of the time, but maybe 70% of the time and to maintain energy. But I think there are other ways that you can maintain energy. Like for instance, let's say you're doing a webinar, there's a hundred people, um, you can utilize the chat as a way of getting feedback. You can, um, you know, encourage bring people up, um, by pinning them as if they're coming up onto the stage. So there are ways that you can sort of leverage zoom to feel more like a live event. But if you're, if you're good at speaking, um, in person to people in front of large audiences, it's not that hard to get good on camera. It only takes maybe four sessions and you can be just as good or better.

Speaker A: Mhm. Yeah. Okay. So it's about applying technique. You've already got lots of skill, uh, you certainly have your content, you know what you're doing. It's just about dealing with the technique and this new, um, new way of speaking. Speaking to the camera as opposed to live on stage. About four sessions you're saying?

Speaker B: Yeah. And, and the technology.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Because. Because you have to find ways to engage your audience. You know, and I've heard you say this, that you know, when you're speaking to a room full of people, it's a conversation. You don't want to just speak at them, you want to engage them and somehow make them feel like it's two way. And there are a lot of ways that online conversations can be even more two way. You know, it's much easier to ask a question on the chat.

Speaker A: Oh, I see what you mean.

Speaker B: Uh, then you know, when you can kind of ignore it or you know, or if they're really important. You can bring them up and not even give them a choice. Say like, here you are, you're up here, you know, and when you pin somebody on a zoom call and if there's a decent number of people in the room, it feels like proximity, it feels energetic. That can create a real sense of magic. Mhm.

Speaker A: Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, that two way street, the conversation. One of the things I often find myself saying, uh, to somebody who I'm working with is what does the audience need? What do they need to hear from you? And even if it's a high stress, Q and A. Really think about why are they there, why are they asking the question, what do they need from you? And when people can get past the defensiveness and defensiveness in the situation also being that sort of like eyes are on me now, I'm supposed to perform well and I'm feeling defensive. Right. So any hard questions coming at me might create more defensiveness. But if we really have more empathy when we speak and when we're listening, um, that we can push aside the defensiveness and like you were saying, have a little bit more of a real grounded, uh, conversation with energy going back and forth as opposed to stopping or throwing us off. Am I just babbling at this point, John, or am I making a point?

Speaker B: No, absolutely. I mean that, I think that, I think that speaking to camera has opportunities to have an even more profound two way conversation than speaking to a live room. Um, and specifically because you're not trapped by time. So for instance, um, if you have a conversation with a live event, you know, people can ask questions, you can really encourage that conversational aspect and ask people to engage and you do have to kind of prod them and help them to feel safe. But once people start to open up on the chat, um, and they start asking questions, it can be, you know, as good as a live room. Secondarily, if you're, you know, releasing short videos, you can kind of engage in a conversation with people after they've left, you know, and then you say, oh, this is what happened in the event, here's um, a video where I'm talking about it and then they can come back and respond. These conversations can be much more ongoing and they happen in public. So I think that there's um, many advantages basically.

Speaker A: Yes, I agree, I agree. That's interesting. That last point I hadn't really thought of. Um, so we are actually kind of blocked in by time because we have to come into the home stretch here. Uh, so if there was one or Two things that you'd want our listeners to walk away with from this conversation. What would they be?

Speaker B: I would encourage everybody to think about the sound of your voice because I think that we all know that 70% of our communication is non verbal. I think a lot of that information is embedded in the tone of your voice. So pay attention to the sound of your voice. Listen to it. Make yourself sound the best you can. Uh, that's more important than how you look. Yeah, that's, uh, that's it. And then I would encourage everybody to consider video. You know, consider even if you're, you know, a secure CEO or a vice president somewhere, by releasing videos as a thought leader, the next time your company gets bought out, you're going to have people that know you and you know, your network is just going to be that much bigger. So it's really a safe thing to do for your career.

Speaker A: Interesting. That's a wonderful point. I love it. Um, how can we find you, John, those of us who want to continue the conversation, what's the best way to find you?

Speaker B: Thank you. Um, well, um, my website is John Scott speech J O H N S c dash o dash T dash T S p dash e dash e dash H dot com. So that's probably the best.

Speaker A: Okay, great. And that'll be on my website as well in the links. Um, it was just wonderful talking to you today. You gave me so many things I hadn't thought of before. And, uh, I'll walk away and I'll consider doing some videos for my business now.

Speaker B: Excellent. Thank you so much, Lisa.

Speaker A: Great to talk to, uh, you. All right, Have a great day. Bye. Bye.

Speaker B: All right, you too. Bye. Bye, Sam.