062: How Can You Use Video to Promote Your Brand, with EMMY WU

Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Marketing and Sales Over Cocktails, the weekly podcast that helps you grow your business, improve your life, and enjoy yourself along the way. I'm, um, your host, Alan Langer, and every week we try to bring you the best thought leaders, the best business leaders, and the best minds out there to help you succeed in business and in life. So sit back, relax, grab your pad, your pen, and your favorite beverage and enjoy the next episode of Marketing and Sales Over Cocktails.

Speaker B: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Marketing and Sales Over Cocktails. This is your host, Alan Langer. I've got episode 62 coming at you tonight, and it's coming at you from, at least for me, the west coast on Portland. I'm on the east coast. So our great guest tonight, Emmy Wu, is joining us probably at her happy hour, but for me, I am at whiskey time, so we're going to get to that in a second. But before we get to Emmy, a couple of quick notes as I always start out with. Just to remind you, the podcast website is marketingandsalespodcast.com. if you go there, don't forget to click on the Ask Alan button at the top. Send me a question, and if I do end up picking your question and reading it on the air, you will get a signed, autographed copy of my book. And we've got a very good question coming up from, uh, Vancouver, British Columbia, tonight. So, uh, that'll be coming up later. But I am very excited. We've got a very cool guest who, actually, I think she reached out to me on a platform that's called PodMatch, which kind of matches podcast guests and hosts. And she just jumped off the page because of what she does. So I'm gonna introduce Emmy Wu from Emmy Wu Media. And, Emmy, welcome to the podcast tonight. How you doing?

Speaker C: I'm great.

Speaker D: I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: Oh, this is awesome. I'm very excited to have you because as my listeners know, I don't like to just be boring sales and marketing all the time. And you're a little bit outside the box because you're. You focus on video.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker B: And all of that and how video can help you, uh, build your brand and build your business. So before we get to that, it is a requirement. I need to know what you're drinking this evening.

Speaker C: Well, uh, since I'm in Portland, I decided to go with a nice Pinot noir from Oregon.

Speaker B: Uh, my favorite wine right there. So you have Pinot, like I said, I'm at whiskey time, so I'm actually going to uh, give these guys a plug. This is called, I want to show it in the camera here. Broken barrel. Look at the proof on that. 105. So if I don't make it to the end of the podcast, Emmy, you can, you can just wrap it up for me.

Speaker C: I'll take over.

Speaker B: Just take over and then hit just, you know, I'll figure it out tomorrow morning so.

Speaker C: Sounds great. Well, cheers.

Speaker B: Cheers. Virtual cheers. Into the camera. Thanks for joining me tonight. All right, so let's get into this. Uh, first I want to know about your background because your background's really cool. You know, you had a two decade film career, is that correct? And you actually work with some pretty high end brands. So tell me a little about that and how you wound up to where you are now.

Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like I've always been a storyteller of sorts. Even as a child I was just fascinated with how to tell stories with a moving picture and the idea that we can mix music and images to create emotion. You know, back in the day I'd take like a beatbox and like mix tapes and like tracks over top and see what I could create. And so I feel like naturally moving into the film industry was ah, a natural progression of my skills and my interests, um, and worked with brands and studios like mgm, um, Disney, Paramount, Subaru, um, over the course of almost two decades and um, worked directly with cameras even before HD was a thing. So that just goes to show my age a little bit. Um, and then I met an American. So eventually I was like, well if I'm moving to the US and I'm not moving to la, I can either try and find a film esque job here in Portland, which does not exist, or, or I could bring my skills online and show other business owners how to use video to grow their business. And in that process I've had to personally overcome my own fears of being in front of the camera. And that has become part of my message of what I teach as well.

Speaker B: So you spent your career basically behind the camera and maybe in the editing room. So you were kind of telling the story, filming other people and you weren't in front of it. Right?

Speaker C: Exactly. Yeah, I was uh, coordinating. So I was basically in charge of, I was the medium between the studio, the cast and the crew. So yeah, so a lot of coordinating, uh, housewives into Vancouver's top restaurants, getting random things like an eight tier wedding cake to the top of a remote mountain for a video you know, for a video shoot, all sorts of random things like that I was able to pull off.

Speaker B: You know what's interesting? So when you say that's the kind of job you had, people like us and most people who don't have those type of jobs, like, oh my God, it sounds like such a sexy, such a cool job. But then when you actually sometimes talk to the people who do it, you're like, yeah, it's cool for like a year, then it's not sexy anymore. Was that the kind of the deal with yours as well?

Speaker D: I think so. I mean, I feel like with a lot of people that get into the film industry, it's because we are creatives and we have that spark and we want to do creative things. But it didn't take very long for me to realize that the film industry was a big business. Lots of hierarchy, everything had to be done yesterday. And so, you know, I enjoyed the new projects and always meeting new people and new scripts and stories, but I always felt in the back of my mind that I would create something of my own at some point and it would be more of, um, more of a creative outlet and more of a full expression of who I am.

Speaker B: Um, before I got into sales and everything, my first professional career when I was young was in college athletics. And I was the guy who actually ran the press boxes and I ran the football games and the basketball games. And I gotta tell you, anytime I said that, especially to guys, they were like, oh my God, what a great job. Blah, blah, blah, uh, but they don't realize that you're there till 3 o' clock in the morning, you know, wrapping up the game and cleaning up and it's like that, you know, the game itself is fun, but everything around it like, so after a while it becomes, yeah, it's not that much fun if you think about it, but it's one of those things that, you know, it's not a very common job like yours, so it feels so sexy to other people and then anyway, I can relate to that, that's for sure.

Speaker C: Absolutely. There's that mystique behind it, but you know, they don't see the 16 hour days, the not getting enough sleep, the getting yelled at your boss and you know, all the, all the, all the behind the scenes stuff that actually happens.

Speaker B: Getting a wedding cake is top of a mountain, all that kind of stuff.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: Okay, so you met an American who screwed everything up for you, so he or she brought you back here, right? So you then decided to start your own company. Was it something that you kind of knew. Like, it was like you had a vision. Because the reason I asked this. It's funny how the universe works, because I knew, obviously. We had our podcast scheduled, and something happened today where I said, very good friend of mine, who actually also lives in Portland, has been kind of a struggling entrepreneur for a while. She's been fine, but she's like. She's always said she felt like she was rudderless. And then one day about a month ago, she had an epiphany, and she. She said she found her purpose. And it made me think a lot. Like, do business owners or people, when they start, do they really know what their purpose is? So I want to ask you that question. Like, did you know what your purpose was? Or was something. Was it like, did it feel like you were supposed to be doing that, or did it take a while to figure it out?

Speaker C: Uh, hell no. So maybe it's a matter of maturity and also just putting yourself out there and doing things that, uh. Anyway, for me, that's how I eventually found more of my purpose and my message and my groove of how I would work with clients and how I would tell stories and find stories. I always kind of gravitated towards that world and that work. But having only known the film industry, my mind was very limited to the confines of, like, how I could build my business. Right. I thought that somewhere in the back of my mind, we had to, like, follow these rules that maybe corporate has given us or the film industry has given us. So for me, it took a little bit of putting myself out there, falling on my face and recalibrating often and asking myself honest questions to finally, I think, find my purpose. And I feel like that is still very much an unfolding, too.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, or, you know, it's like sometimes it's a moving target because you don't really. You think you're there, and then you may not be. So tell everyone then what you actually do. How do you help? If I'm a business owner, how does Emmy Wu help me with my business?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Ah. So I have two branches of my business. One is the agency side, where we produce branded video content for clients, working with them to find their story and then to create the videos from there. And we're also building a media outlet so that our clients can get visibility on places like Apple TV and Roku. And then the other side of my business is actually teaching business owners how to use video to grow their visibility, and a lot of that is helping them to overcome that fear. And that mindset of first putting themselves on camera and, you know, feeling the cringingness of like first seeing yourself on video that we all go through. Yeah.

Speaker C: In those two ways I support my clients.

Speaker B: That's such an amazing niche that you have because, uh, you know, video. So right now, today is so important. I mean, it's, you have to have content and it needs to be video if you want to really kind of propel your brand and build your personal brand. I firsthand experience of it where a year ago I wasn't doing videos on LinkedIn and I just forced myself to start. And one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from a guy on LinkedIn who was doing videos and he always said to me, progress over perfection. Just do the video and put it out there. Because I would spend two hours on a two minute video because I never liked it. And he's like, you're never gonna like it, just put it out and you will just automatically keep getting better. And he was right. So I actually have that written on my desk. Progress over perfection.

Speaker C: So true, so true. I mean, I don't think anybody loves how they look on video the first few times. Right. I mean, you find me one person, uh, I have yet to find one. I think it is a natural progression that we all go through. And you know, he's absolutely right. Like you're not to love it. Maybe not for the first two videos, maybe not for the first dozen videos, maybe even longer after that, but you start to build a kind of resilience and you just know you're doing it, you're keeping your bigger vision in mind and the small stuff, you just don't sweat as much anymore.

Speaker B: And I actually love it now. I mean, I just actually have a ball. And what made me love it even more is I started a TikTok account. And I have so much fun with the TikTok account because to me it's just not as business as LinkedIn is. And I just have fun. I put fun videos up and I'm like, ah, uh, that one wasn't great, but I just put up another one tomorrow. So it's just not that big of a deal. But yeah, having fun and doing that and showing your personality for me, I think is really, really important, especially if you're trying to build a personal brand. Would you agree?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think it's important that we not only have fun, but also lead with our strength. You know, some of us are not meant to be presenters, right? Some of us can share our skills and our message in other ways.

Speaker D: So this whole process is actually kind

Speaker C: of deep work where we really get to explore what are my strengths, what do I actually enjoy doing and what can I cultivate more of. And we always build and improve from there.

Speaker B: So when a business owner comes to you or uh, let's say it's a solopreneur and they, and they want to build a personal brand, are you getting involved with other aspects of their marketing? Are you just like, you know, who are you working with on a marketing standpoint or do you help them? Like okay, you need to do it, you need to have a social media strategy like how, how far do your tentacles go as far as what you're helping them with?

Speaker C: I would say I get up uh, all in their business because it would kind of be a disservice to them if I didn't understand their full marketing strategy. And also to help them map out what is that customer journey from video that maybe somebody finds about you on YouTube or TikTok, all the way over to being a potential customer or client. What does that journey look like and how can we tell the story in this kind of uh, story arc that really makes sense in that customer journey?

Speaker B: Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense because I think a lot of companies do do business as a disservice because they only take them halfway or they only do like lead gen companies are a great example. You can have a great lead gen company said here's all these great leads but if you don't, you don't know how to sell them, what's the point, you know? So it's like I think you're exactly right. You show people how to do videos but if they don't know how to market themselves and they got great videos and don't know what to do with them. So.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker B: So we were chatting pre call and when we uh, also met before about the archetypes of videos and things like that. So how do you like when you sit down with someone, what are you looking for and how are you helping them start to develop their video strategy?

Speaker C: M so the first step for them is to go through a pretty in depth story, uh, distillation exercise with me. And so it's a hefty exercise that they have to answer a series of questions. But it really allows me to see them as this 3D person stretching all the way back to their first memory, to what their ancestors and their grandparents were like, all the way to their present day and their vocation and then

Speaker D: Looking forward into their vision, you know, what is it that they want to create? And piecing all those pieces together, I can typically find patterns in their life that reflects these humanistic themes that are important to great storytelling, because it's all fine and dandy if you went through this great challenge and it meant so much to you. But unless we can relate that back to your viewers and back to your audience, in some ways, it's just not gonna land. And so my job is sifting through all the events and challenges and victories and moments of my client's life and helping them to weave a story that oftentimes also reflects one of the four archetypes, which is a framework that I use. And then each archetype has kind of a different storytelling style or theme that also best represents who they are at the core.

Speaker B: Okay, so four archetypes. What are they? Because now you really got my curiosity piece.

Speaker D: Yeah. So really briefly, there's four archetypes. The first one is the lover. And the lover is all about creativity. It's all about self expression. Expression. It knows that what it values and what they value are not for sale or barter. So this is really the archetype that acts in full alignment with their highest self worth. And so, you know, iconic people that you can relate to. Lover is Oprah, Ellen DeGeneres, people who are like makers, jewelry makers, goldsmiths, artists, artisans, yoga teachers, dancers. Any kind of vocation where there is that creative expression and movement and kind of creativity at play.

Speaker B: Okay, that's cool.

Speaker C: And then we have the sovereign. The sovereign is one that is in charge of then taking what the lover values and then bringing it to life. So the sovereign has a very clear picture of what they want to create. And they are the ones that help their audience and their clients to see the vision, to understand the plan, to map it out, and to implement it. So iconic examples, Barack Obama, you know, very sovereign speaker and also very clear, you know, in guiding the people. And so with the sovereign archetype, there's this element of self mastery, of being a teacher, of being a guide. And so you can see that has very different feeling than the lover.

Speaker B: So the sovereign is really, if you look at some of the better leaders in history, they would probably be considered sovereigns.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And perhaps, perhaps another one or two of the other elements as well. So we also have the magician archetype. And so the magician is in charge of pulling raw materials and bringing them into reality. So they can be turning raw materials into homes, into events, into weddings. It can be pulling ideas and intuition and turning them into business offerings and lead magnets. And so the magician is really one that is a pure channel for bringing that vision into the world. And it also doesn't care what other people think. So they're willing to take that risk because they believe in their magic so much. And so, you know, business and iconic examples. Ryan Sirhan from Million Dollar Listing. You know, any kind of real estate agent, where they're taking the home and then telling the story about the home, like I said, a wedding planner. Where they're taking these ideas and orchestrating them, um, into a beautif beautiful event. That's the magician archetype.

Speaker B: So what about someone like Steve Jobs? Would he be a sovereign and a magician?

Speaker C: A combination of the two, Exactly. Yeah. Most people tend to be one or two. And I think as we cycle through different phases of our life and business, we can go through all four of them as well.

Speaker B: All right, what's the fourth?

Speaker C: And the fourth one is the warrior. So the warrior is really about taking a stand for their beliefs, for their values. They're the ones that protects and enforces the boundaries of what the lover values, of what the sovereign decrees is going to come into reality and what the magician is then now creating. So the warrior is unique in that, um, it has this natural ability to just create systems and alliances wherever they go in a very natural way, because they believe in that cause and that mission so much. So they can actually leverage their alliances almost as a form of currency because they naturally build trust in who they are. When they say they're gonna do something, they say it. It happens. And so the warrior magician is all about systems, relationships, boundaries.

Speaker B: So, uh, give me an example of a famous warrior.

Speaker D: Yeah, so Braveheart, or Gibson from Braveheart, I would say. She's an amazing one. You know, any kind of environmental or any kind of, like, activism, nonprofits, they're often warriors.

Speaker B: Okay, so when you say these are the archetypes of story, that, uh, that's the type. That's what these are. Does that mean if, let's say Mel Gibson is the warrior? When are you saying that when he tells a story, he becomes the warrior, or he's just following that type of story in his own existence. So kind of define that for me.

Speaker D: Yeah, so everybody will probably resonate towards one or two of these archetypes naturally. And so within each one of these archetypes, there's also ideal video styles that each archetype can use that actually allows them to lead with their strengths instead of trying to wrestle with a type of video that they hate creating.

Speaker B: I get it.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker D: So for example, because the lover is all about creativity and self expression, they actually really build that know like, and trust when they are raw, when they are authentic, when they are messy and not polished. So for them they can go live and like do that vulnerable share. And that actually has a tremendous amount of impact on their audience because that's leading with their strength. Whereas with the sovereign, it is actually better that they do these pep talks. They show the way they are instructional because that's how they naturally are. So it's, it's not necessarily anything you need to even do or learn. I would say most people naturally are already one or two of these archetypes.

Speaker B: Right. But what you're telling me, and this is great, so if I'm looking at these four, I would probably consider myself magician, sovereign, type. I'm definitely not going to get on a horse and ride into an army of people who have bows and arrows. So that's not me. But if I try to do a video as a lover, it's not my strength. So that's kind of what you mean. Like I need to know what I am. And I actually did a post today on this is fascinating. Uh, um, I did a post today on LinkedIn that says you hear in sales training all the time, you got to figure out who you're talking to, you got to know their personalities. These are the four different main purse, blah, blah, blah. But no one ever talks about figuring out your own personality and how that affects who you're talking to. So I did a post about knowing who you are first and now here we are six hours later talking about this. Exactly. Exact thing.

Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's so supportive too, you know, especially when business owners are putting their message out there. They're growing their visibility, they're wanting, maybe not wanting, but knowing they need to do video. And often that, that's a huge roadblock.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: Like that can keep people stuck for weeks and months, sometimes even years. And I think that like, often when I teach this framework, they can just sigh a breath of relief like, oh,

Speaker C: I don't have to teach.

Speaker D: I can actually just be messy and be the way that I am. Actually encourages them to show up more, which is what counts in the end.

Speaker B: Absolutely. So let's say a company comes to you and obviously you talked about coming up with figuring out their entire marketing strategy and things like that. Um, and you figure out, okay, you go through the discovery process and you figure that out, what is the next step? Do you say, okay, now we're going to make a LinkedIn video, or now we're going to do a video for your website? Like, where do you start? Is there. Do you start all different places, or is there a specific area that you start with for the customer?

Speaker C: Yeah, so often with my clients, they're visionaries, they're healers. A lot of them are spiritual entrepreneurs. So there is a little bit of. They're not sure how to express what's inside their heart and in their mind into a cohesive idea, into a marketing plan. And so I help them to kind of translate those ideas. And first and foremost, I start with the big message. You know, what is that message within? And going through their distillation work, you know, having conversations with them, generally we can kind of sum that down to one sentence or phrase, and that becomes the key, underriding, kind of foundational aspect of their entire video strategy. So whether they are creating one brand video and that message can be very clear and kind of front and center, or some clients are actually creating a series of videos. So then how do we bridge that singular message across multiple videos? And then it becomes my job to then show how that one message can be translated in many ways. And then this is also where the archetypes can come into the picture and kind of be fun. Um, because generally the different archetypes, if you follow an archetypal storytelling format, they tend to have different types of challenges from one another. And so just like if you were to look at storytelling, there is always a hero that kind of confronts a challenge. And the challenge can be personal within themselves, it can be another person, it can be environmental, it can be all these different things. And what we found was that within the four different archetypes, they tend to have certain types of challenges that best tells a story. So, for example, for warriors, because they are so devout behind this cause, this mission, and rallying people behind that, uh, oftentimes the. The challenge or what they need to confront as a warrior brand is this misconception, is this opposing force against what it is that they value. And when we bring that to the storytelling aspect of their videos, because it's so near and dear to who they actually are, not only does it resonate with the client, but when you bring these aspects out into their videos, their viewers are like, I also know what it's like to have to fight against that. Cause I too have also been there. So I know I didn't give you a straight and simple Answer.

Speaker B: No, that's okay. It was great.

Speaker C: There is no kind of simple way. It really is doing the deep work, doing a lot of excavating to find out what are the core, uh, messages that we need to hit and then how can we tell the story in a really beautiful and artful and impactful way that gets attention but is also clear in what it's communicating?

Speaker B: Well, that's, to me, that's what makes you so fascinating because there's so much stuff out there now. There's so much noise. You know, anytime you're scrolling Instagram or something, every third post is another company with a, uh, video app that'll make your videos explode and stand out and do all these things. But there's never a strategy. It's always like just put these videos out and you get these business owners that are buying this stuff and they're putting out videos that there's no strategy behind it. They're not, they're just, they have a lot of noise going on and it really doesn't really say anything. So that's, that's where I think you're really unique and I think pretty valuable for companies. So that's really cool.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker B: So give me a success story. So tell me. You don't have to name any names obviously, but let's say, you know, someone come in and you, and you took them from not on video, you know, barely had a computer to now they're a superstar and what was the transition like and what are they doing now?

Speaker C: Ooh, which story should I tell you better? Okay, well, I have, I have a couple of great examples. I'll start with one. So a client once came to me with help to create a four part video launch series. Pretty typical. A lot of people are doing four part video series.

Speaker D: I was like, uh, we have to

Speaker C: do something beyond the Jeff Walker. Everybody knows that formula. It's not going to get anybody's attention. So instead of using this kind of pre made formula, um, a sentiment that was going on in the online course market, which is the niche that my client was in, was that there were lower and lower success rates with online courses because people just are not engaged, they don't have the support to actually finish what they had originally set out to do. So we thought that it would be really fascinating to experiment with the concept of instead of teaching people, which is what everybody else is doing, kind of like this top down philosophy where I'm up here and I'm teaching you how it is, what if we actually approach them from a playing field where we're inviting them to come and play. And they actually had to reach milestones in real life. So we were crossing the lines between virtual and real life. And it worked. We got 90% engagement rate from start to finish when most launches fizzle out by the second day. And they banked in on $800,000 in two weeks with this launch, which doubled their business in no time. So I think what really worked around that, uh, concept was we turned what

Speaker D: everybody else was doing on its head. We're like, we're not going to teach like everybody else. We're actually going to come at the same level as you. And instead of treating this as a training series, we're inviting you to come and play. And there's going to be all these engagement triggers throughout. And it actually hits people's brains like dopamine, I think, like, they are now motivated to do something to watch that next video. And then once they watch that next video and they know what the assignment is, they were like trying to beat each other, you know, accomplishing that next milestone. So that was an instance where I feel like we really pushed the envelope for what was possible in a four part video series. And we broke industry standards as a result. So I'm super.

Speaker B: So this person, this company had a course that they were launching, or was this four part video series the course to go through?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: So this was to launch a course that they were selling. It was, um, an online group program, moderately priced, $2,000, pretty standard. But they really wanted to blow up the market with a very different concept.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker D: We did.

Speaker B: Wow. So they did a series of four videos where they like. So instead of doing like a webinar, is that what you mean? Like doing a four part webinar?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: They did a, uh, an engagement kind of thing.

Speaker D: Yeah. So we built in some of a storyline into it. So it was like part watching. It was part watching an episodic series and like, wondering what would happen to the characters next and part a little bit of teaching so that the viewers would get involved with the real life launch that was happening and stay engaged from beginning to end.

Speaker B: Wow. Uh, that's fascinating. Maybe you and I need to talk after this is over.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: All right. We are already at, uh, 35 minutes, which is just amazing. We're just flying by. So the bell just went off. It is time for the Ask Alan segment of the podcast. And this is a cool one. Like I tell everybody every week, I kind of go through my questions and sometimes it's like, uh, should I ask this question? But then sometimes I get a question that's like, bang. It's like a neon sign. It pops up. And that was this one. So, all the way from Vancouver, British Columbia, Thomas writes in. I keep hearing about telling stories to help me sell, but what stories do I tell? Do I tell stories about me? Do I tell stories about my prospects? I am getting so confused with all of this help. Thank you. Great podcast. So there you go. Emmy, how do you answer Thomas from Vancouver?

Speaker C: Oh, uh, uh, well, thank you for the question, Thomas from Vancouver. It is a fantastic one, and I think it's a common one as well, because we are always told. Storytelling sells, story sells, use more story. And I think our natural inclination is to tell a story about ourselves. And maybe, like, when we went through something that our ideal clients are also going through. Um, and that is certainly one way to do it. But I think fundamentally, we need to understand that you are the vessel, the medium to tell the story. But the story is ultimately about your audience. And so the way I like to think about this is what are the themes that you are teaching your audience? So, for example, in entrepreneurship, maybe it's resilience and to just keep going, to not give up, even when things are hard.

Speaker D: Think back in your own life when

Speaker C: you wanted to throw up your hands

Speaker D: and give up, and you were just like, f this stuff, I'm done. Pull us into that moment and tell

Speaker C: us what brought you out of that.

Speaker D: So you're using your own life experiences as a mechanism, as a medium to tell the story. But the morals, the challenges, the victories all reflect that of your audience. And that's also what makes it sticky. Because if you just, you know, talk about something about yourself, that's fine. But ultimately it needs to land in the hearts and minds of your audience, and that is what sells.

Speaker B: Well. That is an amazing answer. Uh, I'm even afraid to follow that up. Tell by my wall. I'm a big fan of story. It's a whole chapter in my book. Thomas, I hope you gonna go back and listen to that answer. That was amazing. I'm gonna add my little two cents, uh, because I'm a big story fan and I use stories all the time. And I actually, when I look back on my sales career, I became the salesperson, the successful salesperson that I was because I started using stories. And the way I train is, especially if you sell a product or a service that's going to help change someone's life, I always tell them, tell a story that Puts them in a place where they actually own your product or service. Let them envision that. What is it going to be like? Let's say you sell, I don't know, swimming pools. Instead of saying, well, it's 32 by 50 and it holds 16,000 gallons and it has a nice ladder and it comes with a deck. Nobody cares about that. You would say, imagine on a 95 degree day to be able to jump into that swimming pool, get on your floaty with a beer and enjoy yourself. Imagine what that's going to be. Feel like that's a story that puts the customer into the product because they don't care about anything else. They want a swimming pool because they want to be cool. So I think so many reps get caught up in their product and they get caught up in going through the features and they forget about the emotion. And story is all about emotion.

Speaker C: Absolutely.

Speaker D: I love that.

Speaker C: And how you tell that story and paint the picture is really what pulls them into that world and allows them to really imagine them themselves in that place. And I think that's when the magic of storytelling really sparks.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's why, you know, when someone says, use story to tell, use stories to sell, that's what they're talking about. Or at least the smart ones are. Like you, Emmy. So. All right, well, this has been unbelievable. I love this whole episode. I could keep going for another hour, but we can't do that. So if anybody wants to reach out to you and talk to you about your awesome service, where do they go?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So they can find me@emmywoo.com or they can come and say hi on Instagram.

Speaker B: Mew Media and Emmy Woo is E, M M y w u emmywoomedia m&emmywoo.com. she's also on LinkedIn as well. So you can probably go say hello over there. Well, I highly recommend anyone who needs to do this stuff to contact Emmy because, um, she is the real deal. And like I said, we might be having a conversation ourselves before too long. Emmy, any, uh, any lasting words or any final comments you want to leave with our audience tonight?

Speaker C: I think ultimately, at the end of the day, could ruminate over how we could tell better stories, how we can make our videos better, but most importantly, just start putting yourself out there. Start sharing from your heart. And naturally, over time, you will get better, you will grow your confidence, and you will also be able to look back in a year and say, look at how much I've done. So just start.

Speaker B: That is the best advice you can give, and I'm a living testament to that. I was scared to death, and now I can bang out five videos in 10 minutes, and I'm like, I don't even care. And then they're done. And they're normally pretty decent at this point, so you'll get better at it, trust me. So great advice, Emmy. Well, I want to thank you for joining me tonight on marketing and sales over cocktails. Final cheers to you. Enjoy, uh, the rest of your pinot, and I am going to say goodnight to everyone out there. Thank you for joining me on episode 62 of Marketing and sales over cocktails. I want to thank Emmy Wu for joining me as well. Remember, Visit the website marketingandsalespodcast.com Send me a question. And just like Thomas in Vancouver, he's going to get a free copy of my book with my signature. It's going to be worth a lot of money someday. Uh, trust me on that. So you can get a free book like Thomas's. Thanks everyone again for joining, and we'll see you again next time.

Speaker D: Bye. Um,

Speaker B: Sam m.