Blueprint for a Tech Department: From Zero to Essential

Speaker A: Bob so our guest today, um, had the distinct, I think, pleasure of starting the district technology department from scratch. And three times in my career I've had, I was the first tech director. Right. Starting it from scratch and trying to define it. And it's a fascinating challenge and opportunity and I'm really excited to hear like started it. And he's still there today. So he's seen the entire life cycle of the technology department in his district.

Speaker B: I'm excited to learn about this. Uh, and for extra credit, it was the school district he graduated from too. So, so it's right, it's really full circle for him. He, he's as involved as he get in the community and, and committed to the district and, and I will learn because I, while I've been the tech director for 15 or more school districts, I've never started a school, uh, district technology department from scratch. So I inherited in when I was a public, uh, school district employee. And then in my role with edutech, still a tech director for a number of schools. But I haven't got to build those. So I can't wait to hear about his experience doing that.

Speaker A: I think this is going to be a fun conversation. Well, let's get into it. Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode. We've got a great one again today. So we have Troy Sladen, who's the director of Information Technology at Morongo USD. Troy, thanks for joining us today.

Speaker C: Yeah. Ah, thank you. I appreciate this opportunity. I've been looking forward to this. Thank you very much.

Speaker A: Great. So Troy, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker C: Well, um, I'm the IT director here at Moronga Unified School District. I actually graduated from Yucca Valley High School within our district.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker C: Back in 1990. A long time ago, but, uh, still plugging away one of them. You know, um, living in the rural area, it's very difficult to find jobs sometimes and opportunities. And um, so I started off by going to college, got, um, a finance degree, um, back in 1998. Ish. I was supposed to graduate college. The stock market crashed and I was really concerned about what the future was for that, um, degree. And so I looked at other opportunities and I saw a lot of IT jobs open and I was like, wow, how can I move into that, you know, arena and, and get exposure to that? Because it was even a bad economy and there was people that were hiring jobs that were paying very well. So, um, decided to take out a student loan, get a computer in college and that was my first exposure to it. Um, really liked the Idea of working on things. So I was really interested in working on networks because I've always been, uh, working on my vehicles, automotive, motorcycles and stuff like that.

Speaker A: So I really like you and Bob. Okay.

Speaker C: Yeah. Love troubleshooting and that kind of stuff. And I was like, wow, this is really interesting. So, um, started getting involved in some networking courses at Cal State San Bernardino. Um, I did go to junior college here. Locally, I did go to Cal State San Bernardino. Um, nothing extremely extravagant as far as schooling, but it was what I could afford. It was what was offered in my area. And, um, my wife did the same thing, and now my kids are doing the same thing as well. But, um, great, um, opportunity for people like us out here in these rural areas to take advantage of the educational opportunities. Um, however, when I was going to retire, or, uh, excuse me, to graduate school, um, uh, saw the opportunity in networking, decided to get a second degree, got a degree in information systems, and, um, um, from there I was very hopeful that the combination of the finance and the IT side of things would provide opportunities for me. Um, however, when I graduated college, I found that it wasn't just the degree. Wasn't going to get you a job, unfortunately. I put out many, many applications. I was just hoping somebody was going to take a chance with me and. And, uh, eventually found a job, um, for a consulting company where they hid me in the back and I worked on things. They didn't expose me to the public or send me out to clients because they were too afraid. I probably was too, because I didn't have the experience at the time. But that's kind of how I started in this industry. Um, it was a. It was a long road, but I, um, think it's been a great, great industry and very, very happy that I chose it. Always have had a job, always have had opportunities, and. And I feel like it's definitely the, uh, future opportunities are always available in it.

Speaker B: All right, I'm going to jump in in front of Alex. See, he just leaned back. He was going to talk because that's how Alex goes. But I'm going to jump in because we're going to talk about the important things here. What kind of motorcycles are we talking here? No, I, I'd love to talk to you about motorcycles, but that's not what most people want to listen to us about. I'm not really sure what most people who listen in want to listen to us about, but that's a podcast.

Speaker C: I'm old school too, because I love two strokers, man. Nowadays, everybody's under the four strokes. I was racing two strokes even when they were four strokes were. You know, that. That was my thing. Why is an ear guy.

Speaker B: Yeah, two strokes. You knew they were coming. Uh, so I, uh, as much as I'd like to talk about motorcycles and anything driven by pistons, um, he kind of stopped at getting us to, um, just your start in it. But, but as you said, you graduated in 1990 from high school there. That puts us in a roughly the same age range. Alex is much older than us. That is not true.

Speaker A: That is.

Speaker B: He's younger than me. I just wear it better.

Speaker A: And I like to make sure that I point that out.

Speaker B: He does. Uh, so what, uh, so you, you. Based on, on what you've told us so far, you started, uh, essentially when Alex and I did is tech directors. And it was a very different world than, than it is now. So, um, can you give us a little of your experience from how it started to what it looks like now?

Speaker C: Yeah, it was, you know, I came in right at the Y2K steer, so that was kind of interesting. Um, consultants made a ton of money on that. Um, so, you know, we, you know, you put the fear factor into everybody and tell them that everything is going to die and guess what? They'll throw money at it. So, um, and then when I came

Speaker A: in, second patch, that solves everything.

Speaker C: That's exactly what we did. But we were consulting for city halls, for school districts for. So we had. There was a ton of devices to touch. And so we ran around and pushed updates to everything. And it was funny because everybody was like, oh my gosh, the computers are going to stop working. Well, we went in and just pushed our clock beyond the Y2K date and guess what? Everything worked fine. You just kind of tell the computer that it's a different age. I mean, guess what? Everything still works. So it wasn't quite the scare that they were making. I think it was more about just the opportunity for people to take advantage of it. Um, however I got started back then and back then, a big difference was a lot of the data wasn't stored on servers and it was stored locally on the workstations back in the Windows 95, 98 errors. Um, we hadn't gotten there yet. So anytime you would do a computer swap, you would have to make sure you got all their profile data, all the data off of the machine. And if you swap that thing out and you didn't have it, you were going to definitely hear about it. And just that process alone for sure, swapping out One machine might take two, three hours. Um, where nowadays we, you know, we, we do a lot of redirection, and if we give you a new machine, guess what? Everything mysteriously magically appears. Um, so things have changed a lot in that area. But, um, um, you know, we've come a long ways, and back then it didn't require so much resources to run things. Um, nowadays it's. It's crazy. You know, back then with, with 16 megs of RAM, you were, you were happy. You know what I mean? Nowadays, I don't think you could do much with that at, uh.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker C: So, yeah, the industry has changed a lot. And keeping up with technology, that's a tough thing, uh, to do, especially in this industry. It's not like you can just become. You can go into it and say, hey, I know everything. I'm good, and not learn from there. You have to constantly keep on learning, constantly be aware of what's coming out, how it's impacting organizations, and look for those opportunities to move and that kind of stuff. So it's not a type of position that you can just, uh, be happy and confident once you get to a certain place. There's always learning to be done and always things to be aware of.

Speaker A: So, Troy, you and I have a similar experience in that, um, we've both been the first tech director right, at a space and had the chance to kind of define the role of the department, uh, in the district. And you've already mentioned that it changes with time. Tell us a little bit. First off, how did you end up going from the consulting side in. Into the specific district? How did you end up being the first tech director there? And tell us about that journey.

Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, it was a wonderful journey. What, uh, I did is I worked for a consulting company, uh, right out of school for a little over five years. And I made it the vice president of operations there. And, um, I always had, um, certain goals to meet. And even in that organization, I didn't find that the goals that I, that I had planned on meeting, I could meet there. And those goals were financial. It was about taking care of my family and, and opportunities and becoming, um, um, somebody in a position of high, of higher authority in it. And I didn't see that as an option in consulting companies. Consulting companies are a lot different than an organization too. So there's a lot of difference there. But after five years being there, it was a very successful company. We supported a lot of, uh, large clients, hospital, city halls, school districts, uh, power companies and so forth. I was like, hey, you know, my boss isn't the greatest person. Actually, he wasn't a very good person at all. And I'm like, if he can do this, I could do this too. There's no doubt I could do this. So I went ahead and started my own company. I ran that company for two years. And um, the first year there was kind of a non compete where I couldn't touch the clients. Uh, after that first year, I couldn't hardly breathe because I had so many clients. So I tried to run it on my own. It became very stressful. I got sick, um, like, um, you know, just from the stress and stuff. Saw a doctor. Doctor told me, hey, if you continue to do this, you're going to die young. And then I started looking at other opportunities, maybe not running my business. And it wasn't that I couldn't, um, but I was at a point where I needed to hire people. I needed to establish more than just myself. Uh, uh, it was just too much. And especially when I had two larger clients that didn't, you know, if I was sick, they still wanted me to show up. And so it got to the point where I, where. And I needed good people and, and back then I probably didn't know enough people to recruit that I had the confidence in. Um, and then at that time, one of my, one of, one of the clients that I was supporting was the city of Indio. And then they offered me a job as a network administrator there. And when I first looked at it, because the Pay was about $70,000 less than what I was making as a consultant, I was. I kind of laug and. And he goes, yeah, well, you're too overqualified anyways. And I'm like, yeah. And I kind of blew it off. And then after seeing the doctor a couple days later, I went back and I'm like, oh, maybe I need to look at this again. Yeah, maybe this is my opportunity to stay alive a little bit here, you know. So, um, so I look back at it and I, and I actually, I took out a piece of paper with my wife and I sat at home and I started calculating the, you know, the vacation time, the sick time, um, the health care benefits that you get, the pension that you get. And I started taking what I was making back then, you know, doing my own consulting company, which was about 150 grand a year. And I started subtracting all that and come to find out, you know, when you subtract your health insurance, your two weeks vacation, your two weeks sick, I'm like, dang. Maybe I'm only if. Truly, if I'm preparing for my future, I'm only making 85,000, even though my checks look a lot bigger. But I wasn't preparing for the future. If I wanted a pension, I had to have a certain amount of money saved, and I was going to live off the interest of that money or whatever. So after sitting down and literally filling this page front to back with math, because I do love math. That's kind of one of the things I do. Enjoy finance.

Speaker A: Uh, Guy.

Speaker C: Yeah. I turned to my wife and I said, I got to take this job. And so I went back to the manager at the City of India, and I said, yeah, you know what? I will take that job. And he goes, no. You already told me no, and you're overqualified for that job. I didn't break out the math, but I was like, I need the job, you know? And so, um. And I already had a good rapport with them. I had been working for them for many years. I ran their police department by myself. Um, so they decided to hire me. And I don't think it was just his choice, too. There was other management there that knew what I did and how I supported him for so many years and stuff. And they. They wanted me as well, so I went ahead and worked there. I was always shooting for the top. I, uh. Shooting for his position, you know, from the time I started. And he had told me, hey, I'm going to retire in a couple years. And I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, this is my opportunity. A couple years went by, decided not to retire. Another year goes by. He decided not to retire. And I'm like, okay, I can't just keep sitting here waiting. And during that time, m. The school district reached out to me, and I used to be a consultant for them. They've always consulted from everybody. They've never had a. They never had their own department. And they had reached out, and they said, hey, we're thinking about setting up our own department and hiring the first director. And I'm like, okay, well, um, if you do, I. I might be interested. And they told me the salary range. And I said, well, you're gonna have to bring that up a little bit. And even back then, it was. My salary was nowhere near where it is today. I mean, in the last 13 years, we've seen a lot of increase. And, you know, my goal in college was to make the 100 grand. Well, in 1990, 100 grand now equals, like, 180 grand. So uh, it wasn't about, um, the number. It was about the spendable income and being able to take care of your family and so forth. Um, so anyways, they, they, they met that mark and I applied for the position and I was fortunate enough to come in here. When I started, there was one person that worked in the student information system and one person that was literally just dealing with the contractors. And if there was a problem, the contractors, and if there was a problem, he would say, hey, UIT contractor, go out and deal with this and. And so forth. So he was just sitting there handing things off and moving things around, but not actually doing, you know, the network engineering and that stuff. He was just kind of coordinating all that stuff. So when I came in, he stayed with the department, I stayed here, and it was just the three of us running it. And we have 20 school, uh, 20 sites. Um, back then we were about 9,000 kids, probably about. With kids and staff. We were probably about 10,500 to 11 people that we were supporting with, uh, a very small crew of people, and we were making things work. Um, but, um, as time went on and we started to get more technology into the campuses and started working on more things, obviously there was a need for, for additional staff. And so, um, let me ask you a question here.

Speaker B: I mean, this is, this is what we want to learn about here. Uh, we talked a little bit before we started recording. Little secret. We get to know each other before we start recording a podcast. And Troy, one of the things you said that you were most proud of or was successful at was building this department from scra.

Speaker C: Scratch.

Speaker B: And, uh, and obviously given the time span there in, in our talking, we know you've been very successful at that. Um, but I want to ask some, uh, and I want to talk about that, but I want to ask some, you know, pointed questions, a little more specifics. We, we obviously don't have the time to cover, uh, you know, your long, successful career there in detail. But so when, when it's you, you're the guy, right? I was the guy. You, you fixed a computer, wouldn't boot it, couldn't connect to the network. You were the guy. Won't print. You were the guy. You know, we got a plan for the five year forecast. You're the guy.

Speaker C: Okay, stop right there. You're giving me PTSD already, man.

Speaker B: Maybe I could retire and then. And he did it for pennies, right? So.

Speaker C: Well, um, and not only that, but when you're dealing with the management side of things, people are like, what happened. How long is it going to take? When are you going to be done? And I'm like, I'm working on it right now, and the more that you keep calling me, the slower things are going to be. But you're not really in a position to do that. You know what I mean? So, uh, that was the first sign that there's a problem here. You know, if I'm going to be the network engineer, I need somebody else answering those questions. If I'm going to be the director, I need to answer those questions and have somebody else be the network engineer. But to do both of them at the same time, extremely, extremely stressful. Um, something that, you know, and the ptsd, that's, that's not really a joke. Um, it was very, very stressful and very traumatic. Um, but, you know, I'm a hard worker. I never give up. You know, that's what's got me to where I am today. And so, um, through all those challenges and stuff, you learn things. So. And that's the most important thing about life is as long as you can reflect and learn things and get better or do better, that's the most important thing. So very challenging, uh, very stressful, but, um, in a much better position. So what happened here at our district is, um, we had a lot of technology. And then when Covid hit, we had to get technology into the kids, into the hands of every student, staff and everybody, because people went home to work and kids went home to be educated. And that's when we really had to pivot. Um, before COVID I was able to get four roaming techs, but then once Covid hit, we had like lab ias, we had like, edtech ptosis at the school site. And I recommended, you know what, maybe we just get rid of those positions and then hire techs. And so that's what we ended up doing. And what we ended up doing is hiring one tech per thousand students. Um, it's not total staff because you're dealing with staff and student numbers, but it was a good round number higher than what you would normally see in the industry. But it's been something that we've been able to take care of and sustain. So, uh, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for that. So I ended up hiring site techs. And so there are some site techs that might have three sites to cover. Some site techs at the high schools, which are very largely populated, that one tech covers. Um, and then from there we had to deal closely with the maintenance and operations uh, side for cabling, placing cameras, so forth. And, uh, what we found is it was a struggle getting them to coordinate with us and getting things done on the timeframes that they expect us to get done versus the timeframes that maintenance and operations gets things done. So through that, there was even more of an evolution, and I ended up taking over the cabling side. And those people came from maintenance and operations are now under me. So we deal with the cabling now. We're not only on the tech support and on the, and the app support and the data support, but now I'm actually doing the cabling side of things and the infrastructure stuff.

Speaker A: So, Troy, you, you, you. You've grown your team a couple of different ways and, and, and multiple times. And, and I think one of the biggest challenges that, That I had and, and others that I talked to that sort of started as, as Bob says, the guy, right, who was running it was convincing leadership that something that they survive for over 100 years without now needs more staff and more staff and more staff. How do you explain and convince senior, uh, administration to get these extra bodies?

Speaker C: You know, that's a tough one. It's very challenging and definitely, uh, have to approach it strategically. Um, but the other thing is that, you know, as a director, you have to. First of all, I'd like to start by saying this. I never present a problem to my boss without presenting a solution. And I never asked for my people to present a problem about a solution because it takes additional thought. And, um, and sometimes it's, in my opinion, it's a shifting of stress. And if somebody shifts the stress onto you and they rely on you to solve the problems, then it's always a shift of stress to an. To one individual. So, m. I went to my boss and I said, listen, we are struggling keeping up. Here's the solution. Um, and then I kind of put the ball into their court. It's not that I haven't provided a solution for it, but it's in their court now. They can either provide the solution and be supportive, or they can deny that. And then I can always go back and say, listen, I knew this was a problem. I provided a solution for the problem. I was denied the solution, and that's why we sit where we are today. Um, so that's really important and always justifying that stuff. I've always waited till we were buried before I've asked for somebody. I don't just want additional staff. And to be honest with you, it causes problems. If you have staff that aren't always constantly working. You're going to have staff that you're constantly managing and constantly dealing with productivity issues. And not only that, it's a waste of money. But um, having staff at Eidl is definitely problematic.

Speaker B: Oh sure,

Speaker A: I don't know many districts that have idle staff.

Speaker C: No. But I always waited to that point so I knew I wasn't going to have to deal with that. And not only that, I thought it was in the best interest of the, of the financial situation for the district. And I'm always, because I was raised here, I was raised in this community. I'm always concerned about that sometimes more than I should be because I see other people that aren't as concerned about that. Um, but it's always been something that I've, I've tried to do for uh, our district is to try to. And even, even now, like everything that we do in it, we don't consult out, we do it internally. We build LED walls, we service the marquees, we put all the cameras out, we set up all the camera servers, we do all the, we do it, we do everything. And my perspective on that is if we build it, we can support it. If we have a consultant that comes in, we'll never get the quality of work or the ownership that we do when we do it. And not only that, but I also see it from, from my employees perspective as hey, if that was me, what would I want? Why would want my hands on everything so I could learn, build my resume, provide opportunity for myself? Um, so you know, all those things have to come into play when you're starting to make those decisions. But, but that's kind of the way I see it. So we, we handled everything internally. We don't protect, pay for service contracts, which saves the district a ton of money. And it gives me more opportunity to hire people internally. And when I hire people internally and they make money, they spend it back in the community. They have kids in the community, those kids go to our school. It's very. Community is supportive and community oriented. And so, um, uh, you know, and it's been, and it's been wonderful because if we have something break, we know it, we know what the problem is, we know it, we could pull it apart, we could fix it, we could do whatever. But when you have people come in and you just sustain that later on, sometimes you don't have that expertise that you need. So sometimes I do ask a little bit more of my employees for that in depth understanding. But honestly it's the best it's the best for them, it's the best for their career and it's the best for our district.

Speaker B: Troy, there's two things I want to reiterate that you said that I think are very important there. One, I love that you don't go to your supervisor or boss without a solution, a problem without a solution. That's good advice for everybody from an entry level tech to a superintendent who

Speaker C: has to go to a board.

Speaker B: Right? That's good advice all around. Um, and one that I hope that the techs at edutech take to heart. If our Texas editech are listening to that, listen to Troy. Come with us. What we do, but it's somewhere for us to start.

Speaker C: Uh, excuse me for interrupted, but it's part of the professional development process too. If these people want to get to a point where I'm at, at some point in time or somebody, one of my higher level positions, they have to not just present problems, but present solutions. So it's mandatory in it, in my opinion. And it's not just, just for simple stuff, but it's for the development of their, their thought process, the development of their troubleshooting. And even if they brought me a solution I didn't like and I said no, my response is I appreciate that solution. I appreciate you put the thought and time and effort into it. Here's the concerns I have. Maybe this might go better if we did it this way, but at least there's some thought in the. And in it we always have to be future thinking. We have to think, hey, if we do something now, how's that going to impact people in the future? Because if you don't, you're going to hit that future and you're going to be in a mess. So those are, uh, you know, that's kind of the thought process. We have to, have to have a good, strong IT department, in my opinion.

Speaker B: Now, you've shared with us the success of building your fantastic team there and, and how you groom them for their own growth professionally and within your community. So we want to turn it around a little on you and having your. The 20 or 30 years behind you and looking to the future a little bit. What's a big challenge for you now and what do you see being difficult for IT departments or your IT department to conquer now and in the near term future?

Speaker C: You know, the biggest challenges for it is always to stay ahead of everything. But also, um, with the introduction of all the technology that we have in school districts, it's about incorporating that technology into the classroom, introducing it in the classroom for, for good educational reasons, you know what I mean? And so that, that technology integration into the classroom is a big piece. It's a big challenge. It's not something that you can just do in your own IT department. It has to take the education people as well, the instructional services people as well to be open minded to that kind of things. And as things change and evolve with the introduction of AI now with the introduction of, uh, technology and everybody's hands and stuff, we really have to pivot. And it's a hard thing to do. And it's a hard thing to do for even educators because they have to now take into consideration, hey, if we're trying to teach these skills and we hand them a computer, is that computer just taking over those skills or are they still learning that skill set? And if it is, how do we now teach them those skills that we want them to learn with technology to produce something, you know what I mean? Instead of just using it as something, uh, that occupies your time or something that, you know, it has to be something that you're using for an academic purpose. And that's, that's actually helping those students. And so that's a big challenge. And the other thing is I can change my 22 people fairly quickly. We can pivot. But when you're talking about 500 people or a thousand people to pivot like that, there's a lot more involved there. There's a lot of professional development, a lot of just, you know, providing that understanding of how to do that. When you may be a teacher in a classroom and a wonderful teacher and very knowledgeable, but you're not as strong in technology. Well, now we're asking you to use technology to teach in the classroom. And so there's, there's a gap there. And, and, and it's really important for us and the instruction department to help fill that gap. And so people and teachers can do the best they can with the technology that, that's, that's being introduced to them, whether they like it or not, it's being introduced to them in, in large volumes.

Speaker A: How does, how does your team work with curriculum and instruction? Are you guys like, do you have academic, is there an academic technology team that's part of your department? Or is the support of the teachers in somebody else's department? And how do you guys work together?

Speaker C: Well, I'm glad you asked that. And this is part of the evolution process, like I said, the evolving of the department, the evolving of the district. And so we do have an ed tech team, um, from the educational side that works. We meet with on a monthly basis and we have a ah, technology committee, um, that it people are involved in and so are the educational people and that way we're all on the same page. But our goal in it, um, and the infrastructure side is always make sure that we have plenty of throughput, plenty of technology. I never build anything to the minimum specs. I always way overdo it. And a good example of that is when we went into Covid. On average back then we were using about a gig throughput a day. Um, but I had a 5 gig Internet connection and people were like, well hey, you're only using like a uh, uh, you know, 1 20th of this. Why, why would you do something like that? Yeah, well when Covid hit we were averaging three and a half plus gigs a day. That's why we do that. You never build to minimum specs, you always build to those specs that will allow the growth. Um, so it's something that you always have to stay on top of here. So when we look at that and they want to introduce stuff, we basically say, well, does it have a single sign on capability? How does the data transfer with it, what kind of specs on the hardware are required? What do we need from an infrastructure level? And we sure that they have everything they need to make sure that they can run that application or that whatever it is that they want to do, um, without any issues. You know our biggest thing is we want to make sure and take away all the technology challenges to the delivery of education. So if that has to do with our network or our devices, we want to stay on top of that.

Speaker A: So you guys take care of the network, the infrastructure, making sure that it's going to meet the needs of the, of the teachers. And then is it that, is that that ed tech team then that makes sure that the teachers. Because there's, there's still literacy associated uh, with the faculty. Right. So the faculty needs to know how do I use this tool? Which is first like the click here part and then it's the how does that, how now that I know how this tool works, how do I make an impact in the instructional design? Who's doing that? And, and how do you guys support that?

Speaker C: We are often behind the scenes because as you know, being involved in technology, um, everything that's on the computer, it's the assumption that it's under it. Well that's not the case. We don't run every application. We typically do like the data Transfers in the background and all that stuff and make sure that it's operational and up and running and stuff. But we're not an expert of every single application. Every department has its own application that it needs to be responsible and, um, understand to be able to run it, um, thoroughly. Um, however, there is a misconception that people will buy an application for their own department and they'll be like, okay, it. What do we do? How do we run this? We're like, I don't know, I've never seen it before. I don't even know what you're talking about. Or, you know, we'll make sure that the data is there, that we roster the kids into classrooms and everything's there. But we're not, we're not running the application. You know what I mean? Um, so there's a, there's a, there's a huge misconception by a lot of people that we know everything, even because we're putting an application on a computer, that we know everything about the application. So, and so that's where we have to step in. And oftentimes, you know, here's the thing is that we can learn it. We do know, uh, more often than not, things about it just because we're involved in it. You know what I mean? We understand how programs work and stuff like that. And so, you know, we will have knowledge even though we haven't touched it. Um, and so we try to bridge that gap with a little bit of that knowledge that we have. But really people need to take ownership of that and try to maximize their benefits of that application or that, those process, instead of always leaving it on it because it's an app that's on a computer. So it's it. But that's not necessarily the case. Everybody needs to understand the applications that they need to use on a daily basis. Like for instance, for grading for kids. I mean, it is not grading kids. We don't know. We don't get into the grading module in the student information system for the kids. Um, so it takes a teacher or somebody in instruction to understand that process and then teach it to their people and become the experts of that part of it, because it's not really something that we do. Um, now we provide the application that does have the grades that you enter. We provide the application that has the attendance that you enter. But it doesn't mean that we know everything about all that. Um, but unfortunately, through time we do, we do inherit a lot of that stuff, and we do understand a lot of that stuff. And it does become a misconception that it knows everything that's techno technological on every application. Um, but I'm sure you guys have experienced the same thing. We also. It's a huge challenge.

Speaker B: We all have that same problem. They buy something new from HMH and they're like, you're gonna put this in and you're gonna roster and you're gonna. And I, And I like your technology. And I said, well, there's software running down there to run payroll. If I roll down to the accounting office and say, hey, I'm technology. Let me run payroll this week, they will not do it. And if you guys are in the curriculum and you won't let down there either, because I'll have no idea, we make it go.

Speaker C: And if I had. If I had that much authority, I just reassign myself and, uh, HR system as a higher person. I don't know.

Speaker B: So we're getting to the end of our time together, uh, today. So, um, I don't want to put any pressure on you with this last question, Troy, but, um, what passes for a losing streak for me with Alex, meaning I've lost one. I, uh, need you to help me out here. So I got one last question for you. We ask all of our guests this, um, if you would, uh, share with us a favorite teacher or an educator who had an impact on you, who that was and why.

Speaker C: So I'll tell you what. Recently, um, I went down to a school site that hadn't really embraced a whole lot of technology, and now we have a site tech down there. And she's been really helpful to that school site. And, you know, we talk about, you know, all these skill sets that we want to, to give our kids the communication, collaboration, critical think, problem solving, creativity, innovation, understanding, uh, data analytics and stuff, and how difficult that is to incorporate into the classroom. Ironically, I went down to the school site and it was a special, um, education teacher. And it wasn't severe, but, um, I was literally blown away by. And it was somebody who struggled with technology, but all of a sudden, over the past few years, learned how to use it, learned how to, uh, engage with her students with it. And I was extremely impressed by what she was having those students create. And when I was down there, they brought me into the classroom and they're like, let me show you. And the kids were excited to show me the transitions of the PowerPoints that they created, the fact that they were placing them on a shared, uh, OneDrive location and being able to contribute, um, from multiple people and the kids, they were so excited about it. They were like raising their hand to show me everything. And I was so impressed with what she had done with a classroom of students that sometimes are challenging to teach. Um, but where she came to, from several years ago to now, and I'm like, man, if she could do this in this classroom, everybody should be able to do this in their classroom. And the kids were excited. It was impressive to see the kids were excited about, happy about what they were doing. When you start doing project based learning and you start using technology to do that, kids, uh, love it, you know what I mean? But it's all about having to wrap your head around that and how are you going to deliver that with technology and how are you going to get that to your kids? But it was phenomenal. And it's something that sticks with me every day because I feel like she's done something very, uh, impressive for these kids that deserve it.

Speaker B: Troy, how many students do you think were in that classroom?

Speaker C: There was probably, and that might make a little bit of a difference, but there was probably about 13 or 14 kids in the classroom. So it wasn't a huge classroom. Um, but again, the kids, what they were producing, what they were creating and their excitement about it, you know what I mean? It's back when, and this is the other thing I really tried to encourage our district and people to work on is that project based learning, when you're doing a piece of paper, like when we were doing math papers and stuff, and you fill it out and you submit it, it's not exciting. When you're using math to build something and then you see it run afterwards, that is exciting. That's how you get kids interested and involved. And so that project based learning, where kids are learning math and stuff without even knowing it, and they do that in robotics and stuff now, um, that's where we need to start focusing, uh, more of our efforts is when the kids are actually having fun and they're learning as well. Um, but they don't even realize it, you know what I mean? That's where we need to be to give the kids the most benefit with the technology.

Speaker B: So all Alex gave me this perplexed look like he wanted to know why I thought that. Why I asked how many were there? And, uh, Alex will wrap this up in a second. But I'll just tell you, Alex, I think that's 13 wins for me. In the future, we're going to ask, we're going to interview those students and they're going to remember that Teacher. And I'm going to win on every one of those future wins. Troy, big time.

Speaker C: 13 and I will say this. That teacher is not technological. The transition that she's made as an older teacher, which oftentimes they try to resist that change, I'm way impressed with it. There's no excuse anymore, you know what I mean? The kids have, have taken it and, and really been excited about it. This teacher who was non technological and, and I hate to classify, but an older teacher that sometimes, you know, they don't want to change when they're close to retirement or whatever. No, this one has done a wonderful job and I'm super, super impressed. Um, and the other thing is, is that I find, you know, I didn't really understand how technology impacted those children that are in the special ed classes until, um, probably about 10 years ago, I walked into a classroom at the high school and it was a special ed class. And I sat down and they had old CRT monitors, old towers. And I was really disgusted with the technology. And I said, and I was talking to the teacher, and she goes, you know what? Nowadays I use the technology to get the kids to do things. And she goes, and it used to be we used to try to drive them with candy and stuff like that. And she goes, nowadays we just say, hey, if you guys want so much time at the computer, you have to behave like this or something. It was a really, really valu tool for her. Then she told me, uh, that she had a child in there that never typed anything, had a trouble communicating, and then was able to use the computer and actually type their first word document. And she says it was riddled with errors, but this kid wasn't able to communicate. This was the only way that they were able to communicate. So when she told me that, ever since then, it has changed my perspective on how we can use technology to accommodate those kids. So I think AI is a wonderful tool for these kids. You know, I have people that struggle just writing simple sentences, and when they start to use AI, I'm like, my gosh, who wrote this? You know what I mean? And now that could be a huge tool for these kids. You won't even know. You won't know what kind of person you're dealing with because everything looks polished and excellent. You know what I mean? Um, so I see that as a huge opportunity for those kids. Um, something that I'm very excited about for our future is AI is not always a great tool for everybody, but you find its niche and it's a wonderful tool. And so I feel like that these tools are definitely going to help some of the kids that struggle. Um, we still need to teach them, obviously all the skills that I mentioned earlier. Um, but for some people just living life on a regular basis is difficult. So to have technological tools that help you do that, um, it's wonderful.

Speaker A: It's, it's awesome. And so I'm tried and shared in our chat earlier, but I'm a special needs parent and so. And communication skills is one one of the challenges that my oldest deals with. And so he's got the concepts, but, but the ability to, um, you know, develop the sentences and communicate them, extraordinarily difficult. But he loves working on a computer and so, um, actually had not thought about how to use generative AI for him to communicate concepts. But he's a good reader. So the cool part is once he has that chance, he'll have a chance to read and validate whether or not the uh, AI was sort of communicating what he intended to communicate.

Speaker C: So oftentimes, you know, I just tell him to type it all out and then copy and paste it into your copilot or whatever you're using and then have it just go through, fix your spelling and stuff like that. It's not like you're having it create everything for you. Um, you're kind of, you're kind of giving it what you want, but it's actually just putting it in a format that looks great. And I, um, have people drafting emails like that and stuff nowadays and I'm like, oh my gosh, this guy looks amazing. And uh, so I've encouraged my staff. I use it as well. You know, I, if I want to have a nice tone to an email and I'm not feeling well, then I might have to use it and tell it to put a nice tone on that.

Speaker A: Um, maybe you should take that. Write that one down.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: What I have seen from my employees by using it is an outstanding product. You know what I mean? There is a use for it you obviously want to verify. Um, but I think it's a, it's an extremely valuable tool. Something that we haven't talked about in the special ed, um, side of things. But I think it's a wonderful tool that could, that could provide a lot of opportunities and, um, um, you know, for the kids for sure. Especially for kids that struggle.

Speaker A: That's a great way for us to end because he's even giving us a future episode, Bob, that we can, uh, that we can, that we can work on. Troy, thanks so much for joining us today. This was a delightful conversation. The time just flew by. Um, but, uh, thanks so much. This was a ton of fun.

Speaker C: Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity. Glad you guys reached out to me and, uh, really enjoyed the conversation. If they ever want to ask me back, then know that I'm here for you.

Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you. Well, Bob, that was fun. Uh, lots in that episode to, uh, chat about. What struck you the most?

Speaker B: 13 student winning streak right there. All 13 of those lucky students with that teacher who I'm m sure made an impact on them for life. That's a win for me. That's a win. And a unique answer, right? We expect to be. When I was in third grade or when, when I was in college and didn't know what to major in, but that was really a good, a good answer, like a good curveball. And, uh, it's proof that, you know, while our podcasts, you know, centers around educational technology, as our careers have, you don't have to have any kind of technology to inspire students. When I was inspired by Ms. M. Parish and Mr. Wampum, it didn't have anything to do with technology. And, uh, that's proof there.

Speaker A: Now a great teacher is a great teacher and you know, particularly like when we've rolled out one to one devices, I do find that great teachers struggle a lot because of the. It's just a new way to approach it. But great educators, oh, they always find ways to, um, just make a great impact on students. So I thought that was a really fun, uh, really fun twist. At first I was like, did he understand the question? I'm like, dude, I really understand the question because it's a perfect legitimate answer to the question. Just a different way of thinking about it. So. Well, every time we get a new guest, we get sort of a new story and a new perspective, which is why I enjoy doing these so much.

Speaker B: We learn every time, even when we think we know the answer because we pose the question, we learn that we don't.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, until our next learning adventure. Thanks so much, Bob.